highaltitude.log.20170224

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[00:19] <adamgreig> sooo cloudbleed "lol"
[00:20] Nick change: DL7AD1 -> DL7AD
[00:20] <adamgreig> russss: having fun?
[00:21] <russss> no.
[00:21] <adamgreig> wanna guess what proportion of the ~500 sites in my lastpass are returning cloudflare headers atm?
[00:21] <russss> 35%
[00:22] <adamgreig> I think you know at least one of them :P
[00:22] <russss> I would be in bed otherwise.
[00:23] <craag> :/
[00:23] <adamgreig> I wonder if either this or the SHA1 thing are related to google triggering a whole load of people to re-auth their accounts earlier this evening
[00:24] <adamgreig> seems unlikely but shrug
[00:24] <russss> the SHA1 thing is unsurprising to all crypto nerds
[00:24] <adamgreig> yea
[00:24] <adamgreig> was a matter of when
[00:24] <russss> the cloudflare thing is *far* more significant
[00:24] <adamgreig> did the numbers and it'd take 8 months of the uni camb's entire CPU supercomputer to do that same collision
[00:24] <adamgreig> well - to do the CPU half. a further 6 months for our GPU cluster to do the second half
[00:24] <adamgreig> anyway yes the cloudflare thing's amazing
[00:25] <adamgreig> shame jgc isn't here atm
[00:25] <russss> I respect Google for bringing their computing resources to bear on SHA1
[00:25] <russss> unfortunately you need an actual collision to get things really moving
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[01:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Chase_1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Chase_1
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[06:04] <SpeedEvil> https://youtu.be/oS4iczSzGNw?t=833 - on the use of balloons to measure the precise emission of the sky at 10 and 30GHz using a liquid helium cryostat hooked up to a ratehr massive balloon, and a very neat measurement system.
[06:05] <SpeedEvil> Where your pumps are superfluid fountains...
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[08:11] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SV3CIX-11 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SV3CIX-11
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[09:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03TA2MUN-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TA2MUN-11
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[12:24] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03M10WX-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M10WX-11
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[12:35] <Laurenceb_> !whereis HIRFW-3
[12:35] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb_: 03HIRFW-3 was over 03North Pacific Ocean 10(26.35607,-160.28786) at 0313776 meters about 0316 days ago
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[12:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[14:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
[15:05] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SV3CIX-11 after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SV3CIX-11
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[16:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PYSKY2 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PYSKY2
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[18:55] <kc2pit_> kc2uez: Do tell about the LoRa tracker. Some folks at the University at Buffalo will be flying a RasPi-based payload next month and we're working on a LoRa link as well.
[18:56] <kc2pit_> And by "working on" I mean "talking about and procrastinating actual work on."
[19:02] <SA6BSS-Mike> I can post some link, dont know if this is things u looking fore
[19:02] <SA6BSS-Mike> http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1982
[19:03] <SA6BSS-Mike> http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1706
[19:06] <SA6BSS-Mike> I belive aadamson in this channel made some experiments as well, plus alot of others as well
[19:06] <kc2pit_> SA6BSS-Mike: That does help, thanks. I had looked briefly at daveake's LoRa stuff but hadn't gone through all of it.
[19:07] <aadamson> daveake, has a full end to end system using the PITS platform (or can be used with generic lora modules if you follow the basic approach)
[19:08] <kc2pit_> I admire the courage to do UHF circuitry with a "we don't need no steenking ground plane" design strategy, too.
[19:08] <aadamson> e.g. I ported most of his arduino stuff to run on the adafruit feather with good success
[19:08] <aadamson> and created a qt5 application to act as a lora to serial to inet gateway (dave's for whatever the reason wouldn't run on windows)
[19:10] <daveake> needs admin rights
[19:10] <aadamson> actually to the above and to be fair to daveake I took his gateway windows app and re-created it with some slight changes in QT5
[19:10] <aadamson> daveake, that didn't fix it on windows
[19:10] <daveake> oh, you found something iffy to do with virtual usb serial
[19:10] <aadamson> correct
[19:10] <aadamson> basically the port would open, but no data would come out
[19:10] <aadamson> that doesn't happen under the QT5 variant
[19:10] <aadamson> that I pulled together
[19:10] <daveake> yeah. Try messing around with h/w handshaking ?
[19:11] <daveake> (guessing)
[19:11] <aadamson> didn't make any difference, on the feather with the VCP usb->serial, I tried everything I could think of
[19:11] <daveake> Pretty sure all that is turned off in the program
[19:11] <aadamson> and nothing made it unblock and move data to the app
[19:12] <aadamson> https://github.com/akadamson/Qt-LoRa-Gateway
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[19:13] <aadamson> So I threw together the above and added the decode/display of the SSDV in a small window
[19:13] <daveake> Works with Prolific, real serial and bluetooth serial, so pass
[19:13] <daveake> I have some Python GTk (spit) stuff coming soon
[19:13] <daveake> Doing it for RPi just need them to OK it
[19:13] <aadamson> yep, I'm sure it's something to do with the VCP via adafruit (atmel/microchip)
[19:13] <daveake> Tracker + receiver with chase car upload etc etc
[19:14] <aadamson> yeah advantage of QT5 for me, is it will work with windows, linux or mac (but I only did the windows support for now)
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[19:41] <kc2uez> kc2pit_, i just saw your question. Our payload is based on the feather products from adafruit. they are very small 2" x .9" https://www.adafruit.com/feather
[19:44] <kc2uez> we are using the M0 adalogger, GPS, lora module and a prototype were we have a few i2c sensors connected to it, 10dof, 2 temps and UV
[19:44] <aadamson> kc2uez, are you using solar power at all?
[19:45] <aadamson> cuz we've found a problem in some of the M0/M0+ designs that are effected with a low voltage startup issue
[19:45] <aadamson> seen it now on a custom platform and on the feather with M0+
[19:45] <kc2uez> no, we are using a 6600mAh battery. our launches go up burst and come down
[19:46] <kc2uez> oh, I did not know that.
[19:46] <aadamson> ok... on my long duration that is solar only (HIRFW-3, HIRFW-6), it's using an STM32 M0 and it showed the problem first
[19:47] <aadamson> but some guys in PA that are using feathers with LoRa have also seen the problem on a non-balloon application
[19:47] <kc2uez> this is good to know
[19:47] <aadamson> all has to do with if you are at a low battery voltage, and the voltage curve ramps really slowly with any noise in the ramp, you can lock the chip up so that it won't run at all
[19:47] <aadamson> and needs an external reset to start
[19:47] <aadamson> Watchdog won't even catch it, the core isn't or won't run at all
[19:49] <aadamson> either external watchdog, or external cpu supervisor fixed it on my stm32 design, and I'm just testing now to see if it fixed the atmel M0+ version, which I suspect it will
[19:49] <kc2uez> any suggestion? a pre charged super cap in parallel
[19:49] <aadamson> (adafruit feather M0 = Atmel M0+ variant)
[19:50] <aadamson> no, because that cap will discharge as well, only fix is to use a cpu supervisor and hold the chip in reset until a specified voltage
[19:50] <kc2uez> external watch dog like a small maybe attiny4 waiting for a ping, if not heard for a while reset?
[19:50] <aadamson> They actually make chips that are ext watchdogs and cpu supervisors, or you can just use a supervisor only chip
[19:50] <kc2uez> oh you mean on start up?
[19:50] <aadamson> correct
[19:51] <kc2uez> well if the battery is fully charge, I think it starts at 4.1 those lipos when they are fully charge and nominal is 3.7
[19:51] <aadamson> it has to do with the processor voltage dropping to the point it won't run, and then when the voltage tries to rise *slowly* and chances with lots of noise from solar, it will lock up the processor
[19:51] <aadamson> you shouldn't see the problem unless you have a scenario where you could *brown out* the processor
[19:52] <aadamson> and even then it tends to be shown the most with solar as the charging mechanism
[19:52] <aadamson> if you are an up and down and the batteries you are using will survive the temp and the voltage swing given the cold, you'll probably never see it
[19:52] <kc2uez> ok, yes, we plan to do like a 3 hours flight
[19:53] <aadamson> are you using Lion batteries or lipo?
[19:53] <kc2uez> my concern is when it gets to like -45 how is the battery going to work. we may have to go to the energizers
[19:54] <kc2pit_> Wait, are there M0+s out there with no undervoltage lockout, or does it just not work right on some versions?
[19:54] <kc2uez> we are using this: https://www.adafruit.com/products/353
[19:54] <aadamson> if you are using lipo, then I'd worry
[19:54] <aadamson> and because of the pressure differential, a packet type of lipo may bulge
[19:55] <aadamson> I assume you are going to 30+km?
[19:55] <aadamson> just checked the link.
[19:55] <aadamson> those are 18650 cells I'm pretty sure
[19:55] <kc2uez> yes about 100,000ft
[19:55] <SIbot11> In real units: 100,000 ft = 30.5 km
[19:56] <aadamson> yeah, you'll probably be ok, with those.
[19:56] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03S-21 after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-21
[19:56] <kc2pit_> Yeah, that's a heatshrink-wrapped pack of 18650s.
[19:56] <aadamson> temp will be the concerning factor
[19:56] <kc2pit_> I do wonder what the heck needs 6.6Ah of lipo on an up/down flight with a microcontroller.
[19:56] <kc2pit_> But there's no kill like overkill.
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> cameras?
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[19:57] <aadamson> one thing to note, those are protected cells, so if the voltage drops on any of them to the cutoff on the protection device
[19:57] <aadamson> I assume they each have the little protection button on the end, it may pull the hole pack down
[19:57] <kc2uez> :), there will be a 360 camera, but run from a separate battery
[19:58] <aadamson> and cold will drop the voltage - obviously
[19:59] <kc2uez> so probably we should use the energizer ultimate lithium?
[19:59] <aadamson> Your call, but I know most fall back to using those on up and down flights unless they can heat the payload
[20:00] <kc2uez> they work well at -55
[20:00] <aadamson> yeah, I've used them to -60C as well
[20:00] <kc2uez> i will bring that up to the teacher
[20:00] <kc2pit_> That pack will probably run your payload for days. You won't draw enough current for the cold to be a big deal, since its greatest effect is on internal resistance.
[20:01] <kc2pit_> (And severe cold makes charging suicidal, but you won't be doing that in flight.)
[20:01] <aadamson> hehe now you know what risk calculations are :)...
[20:02] <aadamson> price of getting the payload back vs. price of power, etc :)... Always a fun tradeoff
[20:02] <aadamson> or discussion
[20:02] <kc2uez> the last flight I was monitoring the voltage, I had 2 18650 in series and the voltage went from about 8.4 to about 6 then it went back up when it got warmer on recovery
[20:02] <aadamson> it should go down to around 60k, then the temp should start to increase again. just to repeat the inverse on the way down
[20:03] <aadamson> Bill Brown - WB8ELK took one of my little trackers 2 years ago, flew it on a single AA energizer to 32km and back - all naked (I didn't know he was going to do it).
[20:03] <aadamson> luckily it never missed an APRS TX :)
[20:04] <aadamson> but I was worried there for a while as it transitioned through the stratosphere ...
[20:05] <kc2uez> for the last flight i made the aprs beacon using a teensy, worked well until abut 78k ft. the gps module was getting the data from royaltek cheap GPS module. unfortunately that module is rated for 18km
[20:05] <aadamson> hehe... yup we all use ublox for a reason! :)
[20:05] <aadamson> and get em from Upu if you do that again!...
[20:06] <kc2uez> one of your trackers? do you make trackers?
[20:06] <Upu> confirmed get them from Upu
[20:06] <aadamson> hehe, I knew he was lurking :)
[20:06] <aadamson> kc2uez, yes, but not for sale
[20:07] <aadamson> kc2uez, - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/2016-05-02%2020.50.12%20-%20small.jpg
[20:07] <kc2uez> good to know, I may have to ask you a some questions later on
[20:07] <aadamson> ^ Thats my 2 radio version with VHF on one radio and HF on the other - uses WSPR for it's location and telemetry on HF
[20:07] <kc2uez> if you don't mind of course
[20:08] <kc2uez> what you use for VHF?
[20:08] <aadamson> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/DSCN2493-small.JPG
[20:08] <kc2uez> I use the DRA818
[20:08] <aadamson> ^ thats my old version (K6RPT-11 is flying one right now, that he build from the design)
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[20:09] <aadamson> that was VHF only
[20:09] <kc2pit_> Were you the one sending APRS by FMing a SiLabs 4463 with a VCO?
[20:09] <aadamson> kc2uez, same thing most on here do. Yup, 4463 with VCXO
[20:09] <aadamson> to make FM
[20:10] <aadamson> you can do it by putting the device into GFSK mode and sending bits to it, but I found that wasn't as reliable as making actual FM
[20:10] <kc2pit_> Heh. I've recently acquired an interest in copying that hack. Stupid ham rigs in the 9600 baud packet station keep breaking.
[20:10] <aadamson> it works, it just wasn't as good in my experience
[20:10] <kc2pit_> Got one that receives well, but no transmitter. So it's time to build my own radio, with blackjack and hookers.
[20:11] <kc2uez> how you do the AFSK modulation? from the STM32?
[20:11] <aadamson> yes, via it's DAC
[20:11] <aadamson> which modulates the VCXO
[20:12] <aadamson> but I didn't actually use a VCXO because they draw too much current
[20:12] <aadamson> instead I used a programmable PLL with a VC input
[20:12] <kc2uez> I have a few f303K8t6's they have 3 dacs
[20:12] <aadamson> too current hungry for me :)
[20:13] <aadamson> That little board of mine is < 1 sq in, ~1.5grams, and when running with gps etc on, is running at around 5-7mA of total current
[20:14] <kc2uez> I also have a L432KC eval board, that has the DAC's too
[20:14] <aadamson> opps, I lied... 8-10mA (had to look at the video)
[20:14] <kc2uez> 10ma impressive
[20:15] <kc2uez> and how you do the HF part of it?
[20:15] <kc2uez> and for what band?
[20:16] <aadamson> frequency agile from 5khz to 300mhz, and I use 20meters
[20:17] <kc2uez> so cool
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[20:17] <kc2uez> you use like a dss?
[20:18] <aadamson> no si5351
[20:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ5RZP-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ5RZP-11
[20:24] <kc2uez> so many questions. but don't want to annoy you :)
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[20:31] <Ian_> A couple of flights out of Cambridge last summer/autumn were lost and the common factor was not using Ultimate Lithium - may well have been alkaline though, but still best to use UL.
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[20:38] <daveake> iirc at least one did use alkalines
[20:40] <daveake> I'd be less fussed with using rechargeable lithiums for cameras, where the high current demand causes a certain amount of self-heating, but absolutely not for a low-power tracker
[20:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[21:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NO1LIC-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NO1LIC-12
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[23:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03stews on low_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=stews%20on%20low_chase
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[00:00] --- Sat Feb 25 2017