highaltitude.log.20170123

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[06:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[09:05] <AndyEsser> morning
[09:06] <fsphil> evening
[09:09] <number10_> fsphil: you getting just like Darkside ;-)
[09:10] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 035 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
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[09:13] <fsphil> I have gone to the Darkside
[09:13] <fsphil> (really)
[09:13] <AndyEsser> sticky....
[09:14] <Vaizki> sticky with vegemite?
[09:15] Nick change: zer0rest -> zer0rest-phone
[09:15] Nick change: zer0rest-phone -> zer0rest
[09:16] <fsphil> even the name of that is awful
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[09:35] <MarkIreland> Quick question - where in europe would it be legal to drop a UAV from a HAB and have it autonomously fly back to launch site?
[09:35] <MarkIreland> fly = glide
[09:36] <gonzo_> legal in the UK, but lots of paoperwork, as it's classed as a drone
[09:36] <MarkIreland> I thought in the UK you had to have visual on it at all times?
[09:36] <gonzo_> otherwise you need to have it in visual range
[09:36] <MarkIreland> Ok
[09:36] <StuartL> That's my understanding too, I didn't realise that there was even an option for autonomous flight.
[09:37] <gonzo_> drones can be licenecd, but I suspect it's out of the reach of normal people
[09:37] <MarkIreland> Where is less paperwork? Spain? Somewhere in east europe?
[09:38] <gonzo_> some people in the UK are looking at steered chutes
[09:38] <MarkIreland> I guess this is the original https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpBnurznFio
[09:38] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: still legal even though you're not allowed to drop stuff from a balloon?
[09:38] <gonzo_> as that wriggles out of the drone clasification
[09:39] <gonzo_> we've had people drop things from a balloon on a chute
[09:39] <AndyEsser> hmm
[09:40] <AndyEsser> I guess you could have a deployable chute on the drone - to try and get around that :P
[09:40] <daveake> First guy was in Canada iirc, and there was another in NZ
[09:40] <MarkIreland> Yeah that's what I thought, deploy chute 20m from groun
[09:40] <AndyEsser> MarkIreland: but yes, as it stands the ANO permits drone usage that is: <400 ft altitude, not within 50m of buildings or people, and always within unaided visual range of the operator
[09:40] <SIbot> In real units: 400 ft = 122 m
[09:41] <AndyEsser> (and less than 20kg - but suspect you would have other issues if your payload was 20kg with a HAB)
[09:41] <gonzo_> there is some loophole in the wording that means that controled chutes are ok. Though not sure how much a chte will be winds dependent
[09:41] <daveake> >2kg is a pita already
[09:41] <AndyEsser> daveake: yea, I put it in there for "completeness" sake
[09:42] <daveake> Steve spent weeks getting approval for his >2kg flight last year
[09:42] <daveake> Had to be from an MOD "danger area"; had to have a cutdown to keep it away from fligth paths, etc
[09:42] <AndyEsser> was that before/after the new classification of sizes/weight?
[09:42] <daveake> after
[09:43] <AndyEsser> yea, imagined so
[09:43] <AndyEsser> actually, think he emailed the mailing list about it or at least related
[09:43] Action: mfa298 hopes the ANO does say 400ft and then use 50m - next they'll be needing a measurment in cubits or some other random unit
[09:44] <AndyEsser> mfa298: :)
[09:44] <daveake> Also, re "opening a chute close to the ground", Steve wanted to do that for his Action Man flight. I think he had to show the CAA ground tests of the system and go through more hoops
[09:44] <AndyEsser> pretty sure it does :P
[09:44] <AndyEsser> mfa298: because aviation is dominated by the americans, so altitudes are given in feet
[09:44] <mfa298> s/does/doesn't/ although I'm not surprised if they're mixing units
[09:44] <gonzo_> sibot doesn't know about cubits! WYou win
[09:44] <daveake> In his case it wasn't that close to the ground - just wanted to get Action Man falling quickly before the chute deployed
[09:45] <StuartL> mfa298: My favourite measurement system is that used for tyre sizes. Imperial diameter, metric width, ratio wall height.
[09:45] <MarkIreland> I get that the CAA rules are there for good reason, I was wondering what is the nearest country without them
[09:45] <daveake> So basically if the chute isn't deployed when dropped, the CAA get nervous
[09:45] <daveake> Well for Lohan we went to Spain
[09:45] <AndyEsser> MarkIreland: get a boat... drive out into international waters :P
[09:45] <MarkIreland> What was it like there?
[09:45] <gonzo_> release over internatyional waters
[09:45] <MarkIreland> Rule-wise
[09:45] <gonzo_> snap
[09:45] <MarkIreland> True
[09:45] <daveake> Lester (RIP) had conversations with their CAA about it
[09:46] <daveake> yeah upu and I did that for our paper plane
[09:47] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: it's only snap if you do it at the same time :P
[09:47] <gonzo_> with my long VNC delay, it was at the same time
[09:47] <MarkIreland> It's a mission in itself to get to international waters with a 'standard' HAB payload
[09:48] <gonzo_> (treat me like playing snap with a 4yo)
[09:48] <daveake> Though launching within UK you're supposed to not fly outside the UK anyway, unless it's for meteorological purposes only
[09:49] <daveake> "the said balloons to fly within the United Kingdom controlled airspace"
[09:49] <gonzo_> almost impossible to garauntee that. And if you can't then the flight is met, to see if it will stay in the uk or not
[09:50] <gonzo_> is that statement only becayse they can't give permission outside our airspace, rather than a restricttion?
[09:50] <daveake> If you read the new rules that Steve talked about at the conf, if you fly over other countries you need advance permission from each
[09:51] <daveake> So I suspect (IANAL) that international waters = OK, but entering another country's airpace needs specific permission from their CAA
[09:51] <gonzo_> the AR licence has similar wording, that ofcom only give permissions for comms within the UK. The rsgb and ofcom just muttered when I queeried them about that
[09:52] <MarkIreland> If you released a glider over international waters and have it land in Wales then you'd still have CAA issues then
[09:52] <daveake> Problem with floaters is that you don't really know which countries it's going to fly over
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[09:53] <gonzo_> you may be required to get permission from other countries, but that probably can't/won't be enforced by the CAA. And are they going to extrodite you for a party balloon?
[09:55] <gonzo_> if they can't be bothered prosecuting people with quadcopters buzzing airfields, or doing silly things and posting the evidence on YT
[09:55] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: blow it out of the sky :P
[09:55] <MarkIreland> Yeah this is what I was thinking
[09:55] <AndyEsser> MarkIreland: where in wales you hoping to land?
[09:55] <gonzo_> that is a risk if you go a few mtrs into russian airspace
[09:56] <MarkIreland> AndyEsser: Wales is just the biggest open space near both me and international waters. I'm just wondering about the legality of it at the moment!
[09:57] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[09:57] <MarkIreland> Brecon Beacons for example
[09:57] <AndyEsser> Wales isn't great for landing :P
[09:57] <AndyEsser> bit hilly
[09:57] <MarkIreland> Yeah I've landed there before - no phone signal
[09:57] <AndyEsser> better to go into North Sea and land back on East Anglia :P
[09:57] <AndyEsser> phone signal, gps signal, any signal
[09:57] <AndyEsser> it's a dead zone
[09:57] <AndyEsser> :P
[09:57] <AndyEsser> somehow daveake manages to cope
[09:57] <AndyEsser> suspect it's a 7 P's and experience thing :P
[09:58] <daveake> :)
[09:58] <MarkIreland> If it's a controlled glider though, should autonomously be able to land avoiding the hills
[09:58] <AndyEsser> 7 P's? 6 P's?
[09:58] <AndyEsser> 6...
[09:58] <daveake> Only 1 in the chase car
[09:58] <daveake> Well only 1 powered up ...
[09:58] <MarkIreland> I also need a job that gives me more free time - like you guys on here now!
[09:58] <AndyEsser> I more meant: Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
[09:58] <AndyEsser> MarkIreland: I'm working atm :P
[09:58] <MarkIreland> :p
[10:00] <AndyEsser> not particularly hard... mind
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[10:39] <hyde00001> PITS question - anyone got the beta configuration tool to behave? Specifically on OSX...
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[11:38] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03M10WX-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M10WX-11
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[11:56] <AndyEsser> finally have remote access to a Pi in my office with an airspy attached in Bangor
[11:56] <AndyEsser> woo
[12:01] <gonzo_> seeing anything interesting?
[12:02] <AndyEsser> well, haven't tried receiving anything yet - not sure what command line tools are best
[12:02] <AndyEsser> but it's only got the shitty monopole that comes with the RTLSDR plugged in
[12:02] <AndyEsser> remind me of the rules of mounting antennas to houses again, when does it require planning permission?
[12:03] <daveake> when neighbours complain ?
[12:03] <AndyEsser> is that official RSGB guidelines? :P
[12:03] <daveake> Yeah it's in the exam :p
[12:04] <AndyEsser> there was an exam?
[12:04] <craag> -_-
[12:04] <daveake> You don't remember?
[12:04] <daveake> Ah, no, you fell asleep :)
[12:04] <AndyEsser> landlord of the new property is happy for me to have CCTV and alarm installed, as long as I make good any damage - so suspect he's fine with me adding an antenna or 3 to the chimney
[12:04] <AndyEsser> daveake: that was the other Andy :P
[12:04] <AndyEsser> I remember craag struggling to use a radio :P
[12:05] <daveake> ah yeah wasn't sure
[12:05] <craag> :P
[12:08] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
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[12:10] <Vaizki> AndyEsser, are you still on pi2?
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[12:33] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: no, think this was a Pi3?
[12:33] <AndyEsser> it has the built in wifi
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[12:39] <Vaizki> ah ok so you have the cpu oomph to actually run something
[12:40] <Vaizki> like airspy_rx and netcat..
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[12:42] <mfa298> even the Pi1 was able to run rtl_tcp. The bit where it started to struggle was network bandwidth which isn't any better on the Pi3
[12:43] <AndyEsser> 1GB ram and 4 cores
[12:43] <AndyEsser> but yea, no idea about the network bandwidth
[12:44] <mfa298> all pi's are 10/100 lan off the same usb hub chip as the usb ports.
[12:44] <mfa298> Pi3's wifi is on a seperate (SDIO) interface
[12:44] <Vaizki> mfa298, pi2 chokes on airspy_rx if you want i/q samples out
[12:44] <Vaizki> libairspy does the conversion from raw and the cpu can't keep up
[12:45] <daveake> I have Pi3 doing rtl sdr --> dl-fldigi, and iirc it's around 25% or so CPU
[12:45] <daveake> Pi 2 would be fine for that
[12:46] <Vaizki> yes but rtl != airspy..
[12:46] <daveake> sure
[12:47] <AndyEsser> mfa298: better to use wifi than wired then?
[12:47] <mfa298> I think the wifi sdio is only around 40mbit/s so lower than 10/100 ethernet, but not shared bus
[12:48] <AndyEsser> yea, it was more the shared bus/controller that I meant about
[12:49] <AndyEsser> daveake: that BBC click article about the balloon rides
[12:49] <AndyEsser> imagine the NOTAM is a bitch :P
[12:49] <daveake> :)
[12:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03TA2MUN-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TA2MUN-11
[12:56] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRF-6 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRF-6
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[13:12] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[15:00] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03WB8ELK-2 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-2
[15:29] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 036 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
[15:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SKYGATE_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SKYGATE_chase
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[15:53] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PYSKY after 0312 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PYSKY
[15:58] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PYSKY2 after 037 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PYSKY2
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[16:08] Nick change: SpeedEvil -> Guest96646
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[16:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BALYOLO - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALYOLO
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[17:23] Nick change: BitEvil -> SpeedEvil
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[18:03] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cx9mNnky2U - codyslab - 'is fire possible in a vacuum'
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[20:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K2JJI-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K2JJI-11
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[20:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ5NWI-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ5NWI-11
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[00:00] --- Tue Jan 24 2017