highaltitude.log.20170108

[00:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HIRF-3 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRF-3
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[00:19] <Laurenceb_> !whereis UBSEDS18
[00:19] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb_: 03UBSEDS18 was over 03Strait Of Sicilia 10(36.29258,14.61568) at 0312904 meters about 0310 days ago
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[01:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03WB8ELK-2 after 0319 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-2
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[04:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS21 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS21
[05:24] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[11:13] <pb0ahx> !flights
[11:13] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03UBSEDS21 434.610 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(2e88), 03SP3OSJ->437.7MHz/RTTY/100bd/7n2 10(cff8)
[11:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Elvis Ranger_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Elvis%20Ranger_chase
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[13:25] <PE2BZ> Is it possible to disturb daveake his sunday with a pits/tracker question ?
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[13:41] <craag> Others may be able to answer if you post the question
[13:45] <PE2BZ> Indeed, you are right. So, here´s the question: after running the PITS tracker for some days with HD transmisisons my SD card runs out of space. If I stop the tracker, sudo rm -r images and restart the tracker I have all my space back and the tracker creates the images folder with the subfolders. But what would happen if I do that from a cron job, while the tracker is still running. Would I be forgiven and does the tracker create
[13:45] <PE2BZ> the folder again for me ?
[13:46] <fsphil> try it :)
[13:47] <mfa298> alternatively why not try something like tmpwatch to delete files older than a certain age (or do something similar with find)
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[13:51] <PE2BZ> mfa298 I have the ¨older than 3 days¨ running on my motion webcam recorder and I can use that on the pits tracker also. I was just curious if I could just simply delete the folder. So I just followed fsphil ´s comment. Now wait till the next image (30 minutes) and see if it´s back
[13:56] <PE2BZ> the tracker has created the folder again, without complaining. thanks all !
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[15:07] <Ian_> PE2BZ Afternoon Ben. Linux/Unix factoid. When deleting files, the file inode is only removed when the file is released by any program that happens to have it open at the time.
[15:08] <Ian_> That's why it was happy. I accidentally deleted an Ingres database user's account in error many years ago. The advice was to not log off otherwise they would have lost the lot. As it was it was the fastest unscheduled weighbridge update I had done to a different platform.
[15:09] <Ian_> I was a tad concerned when I took that one straight to my senior analyst . . .
[15:10] <Ian_> That wasn't a Pits question it was a Linux one :)
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[15:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRF-3 after 0316 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRF-3
[15:38] <Ian_> Create file in editor and save but remain in the editor, in another session delete file, operation successful file not existing. Back in the editor if you now exit without saving, the file is gone. If instead you save the file on exit, the file exists. Life saver! :)
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[15:53] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-3 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-3
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[16:00] <Vaizki> Ian_, depends on how the editor does a save.. best method is to save a temp file and then Renames it atomically to replace the old one.. in that case you get the file back. a crappy editor might overwrite the original file and in that case it would not result in a new directory entry...
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[16:18] <Ian_> Not sure if we are on the same page Vaizki. The idea was generally to demonstrate that the file wouldn't disappear from the editor when delited in another session, as the inode would only be marked for deletion, the actual deletion taking place when the inode was released by the editor, quitting. The saving of the editor contents was incidental to the discussion.
[16:19] <Ian_> deleted
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[17:44] <gb73d> https://twitter.com/Pacific_Space
[17:48] <PE2BZ> Ian_ thanks for the info. That would explain that trackers just continuous what it´s doing. Do I understand right that all files are actually deleted except the one which active at that moment ?
[17:54] <Ian_> As long as the application writes to the open file it will remain. If it doesn't, then the deletion will take effect.
[17:55] <PE2BZ> Thanks.
[17:57] <PE2BZ> And now for a complete other (linux related) question: I have an IP cam which takes snapshots of the clouds (stars, airplanes, satellites and so on) . Every 2 seconds. That makes more as 40000 images for 24 hours.
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[17:57] <PE2BZ> Linux cannot delete the files older than 2 days because there are to many of them. Any help on that problem ?
[17:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03G8OTE_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=G8OTE_chase
[18:00] <adamgreig> pretty sure it can
[18:00] <adamgreig> use find and exec
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[18:14] <Ian_> Figure out the pattern of the filenames and delete them by their hours, making 24 passes, or something similar.
[18:15] <Ian_> Using a loop that increments the appropriate bit of the filespec before adding the wild card
[18:15] <Ian_> How do you eat an elephant, one byte at a time (pun intended) :)
[18:19] <PE2BZ> Glad I am not a vegetarian ;-)
[18:20] <PE2BZ> It´s a 4 digit number than a - than yearmonthdaytime than a - and then incremental 2 digits.
[18:20] <mfa298> linux (or more ext and most filesystems) don't handle lots of files in a single directory well. Doesn't mean it won't work but it might be slow.
[18:20] <PE2BZ> But going the easy way, I think disabling the jpeg saving and only save the timelapse will do :-)
[18:21] <mfa298> if you try something like 'rm *' that might also have issues due to exceeding the command line length. The shell tries to expand the * to all possible filenames
[18:21] <PE2BZ> mfa298 it does not work, list of arguments to long, at about 3000 files in a folder.
[18:23] <PE2BZ> I use *.jpg older than 2 days and indeed if I do it manually *2017010419* than all files from that hour gets deleted.
[18:24] <PE2BZ> But I don´t blame linux ;-) It stores on a NAS, and windows is busy for 20 minutes now to open that folder and count the number of files ....
[18:30] <Ian_> MOM SVP
[18:32] <Ian_> Thats about it, but the 19 in your example ideally wants to be parameterised so that it iterates 00 to 23, taking an hour at a time.
[18:35] <PE2BZ> Thanks. I will try to create something like that.
[18:38] <PE2BZ> Other topic: Is someone familiair with the radiosondes from Herstmonceux ? They switched to RS41 but the drop speed is much higher than the RS42 was. 14 m/s compared to 5 m/s. The RS41 is nearly 150 gram including batteries, coud they have omitted the parachute ?
[18:38] <PE2BZ> RS42 should be RS92
[18:43] <Ian_> Dinner time, I'll be back to the bash shortly :)
[18:44] <PE2BZ> Enjoy your meal !
[18:44] <Ian_> smaklick (phoneticised of course)!
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[19:28] <quick_question22> Excuse me? or is this downtime still going on?
[19:30] <craag> quick_question22: No, finished on time yesterday.
[19:30] <quick_question22> I've near used IRC before, I'm coming in through the browser with freenode.net
[19:31] <quick_question22> Should I be able to see other people's discussions by default or what?
[19:31] <quick_question22> Does this work like a forum website?
[19:31] <quick_question22> Or like a realtime webchat?
[19:31] <craag> realtime webchat
[19:31] <craag> this is a public room
[19:31] <quick_question22> I had some things about the habduino shield I hoped to ask
[19:31] <craag> but you can also have private chats with people directly
[19:31] <craag> you're in the right place then!
[19:32] <quick_question22> Ok, this is a public room, all I can see is your stuff, or are we the only two people in here?
[19:32] <PE2BZ> No I am here too ;-)
[19:32] <quick_question22> Is this a private chat you're having with me
[19:32] <craag> there are many other people here, they're just not saying anything :)
[19:32] <quick_question22> Ah, ok I think I get it
[19:32] <craag> 186 other people in fact
[19:32] <SpeedEvil> me, for example.
[19:32] <SpeedEvil> Some may not be people.
[19:32] <quick_question22> Ok, so my question about the habduino:
[19:32] <SpeedEvil> Some are refrigerators.
[19:32] <PE2BZ> That´s Evil
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[19:33] <quick_question22> I'm part of a project hoping to use one on a high altitude balloon flight, my group has flown before but previously with a borrowed one...
[19:33] <quick_question22> ...this time we intend to buy one for ourselves and hope to be able to modify it slightly...
[19:34] <quick_question22> ...we want to be able to get atleast 4 analog output wires to come out from the habduino plus a fifth output which can be digital in nature...
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> Where are you??
[19:35] <quick_question22> ...we need these outputs to send control signal to other equipment onboard...
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> Why do you need analog outputs?
[19:35] <quick_question22> SpeedEvil, you just asked where I am, i'm in the UK
[19:35] <quick_question22> ...bkac to my question...
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> - not saying that it's impossible - simply that digital is often as easy to use in practice
[19:36] <quick_question22> ...we are aware that the habduino shield has two analog output capable pins (digital pins 10 and 11 do PWM outputs on a dumilanove or uno)...
[19:37] <quick_question22> ...we wanted to ask how practical it would be to do some minor rewiring to free up another two analog output pins, and what...
[19:37] <daveake> Analog o/p on the Arduino means PWM. PWM means timers. Different pins use different timers, and the existing code uses timers, so you need to look at the code to see which timers are used, and at a list of pins vs timers
[19:37] <quick_question22> ...code modifications we might have to...
[19:37] <daveake> Might well not be possible
[19:37] <quick_question22> ...make so that we can get four pins from the list 3,5,9,10,11 to be free
[19:38] <quick_question22> ...we know 9 on a v4.1 habduino powers an LED of some kind, is this correct?
[19:38] <daveake> Dunno; take a look at the schematic
[19:38] <quick_question22> that is digital pin 9 on the habduino shield connects to some sort of LED, diagrams seem to conflict whether this is the "all ok" or "error" LED
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[19:39] <quick_question22> ...I've seen the schematic and also seen photos of the boards, they seem to disagree on which LED goes to pin 9...
[19:39] <quick_question22> ...although it might be pics/schematic for different habduino versions...
[19:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03WB8ELK-2 after 0319 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-2
[19:40] <daveake> The source code will tell you which it is
[19:42] <daveake> When you look at that, check to see which timer is used for the RTTY code. Whichever that is, it'll be set to a fairly low frequency meaning that any PWM outputs are best avoided for your analog signals (the PWM frequency will be low)
[19:43] <daveake> To see which timer drives which PWM pin, see http://playground.arduino.cc/Main/TimerPWMCheatsheet
[19:44] <quick_question22> We wonder, if we chopped off the bottom of the pin 9 on the habduino shield to make it too short to plug into the arduino, soldered a wire onto the top of where the pin "was" located, then plugged this wire into say pin 12 of the arduino (pin 12 looks free on the habduino shield), could we just change the 9 on line 88
[19:44] <quick_question22> of this code https://github.com/HABduino/HABduino/blob/master/Software/habduino_v4/habduino_v4.ino
[19:44] <daveake> The fact that it drives an LED doesn't mean you can't use it as an analog output. You would need to disable all the code that is used for the LED.
[19:45] <quick_question22> to a 12, would that be enough to change the LED from being on a PWM capable pin to being on a non-PWM capable pin and hence free up PWm capable pin 9?
[19:45] <daveake> You would then, of course, lose the LED function
[19:46] <quick_question22> daveake, could you just explain about the RTTY please
[19:46] <daveake> The RTTY uses a timer for timing
[19:46] <quick_question22> for the analog PWM output we were hoping that
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[19:46] <daveake> So in the code there'll be something to set the frequency of that timer
[19:46] <quick_question22> it would be a fast enough PWm signal that
[19:46] <quick_question22> we would be able
[19:47] <quick_question22> should I type full sentences before submitting, rather than partial, it might be easier. I'll be quie t a while while I compose my full question at once
[19:47] <daveake> Here's what to do. Make a list of all the PWM pins on the Arduino. Find out what timer the RTTY is using. Find out what PWM pins use that timer (see my link). Cross those off your list. Find out what PWM pins are used for the Habduino. Cross those off your list. See what's left.
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[19:48] <quick_question22> Ok, so sorry but could you just define what the RTTY is.
[19:48] <quick_question22> thanks
[19:49] <quick_question22> Ok, so I can see from that link how different PWm pins get controlled by different timers, why will this matter? We simply need each analog output to produce about 20 different possible voltage levels, and we can put in some little low-pass RC filters if that would help it.
[19:49] <daveake> If you're using the habduino for aprs instead of rtty then you could (if you're feeling brave) remove the rtty code
[19:50] <daveake> depends
[19:51] <quick_question22> We are flying in the UK, I'm not sure if one can use APRS over here, I think we might be using something in the 434MHz band, but I'm not in that side of the project
[19:51] <daveake> No you can't
[19:51] <daveake> It'll be RTTY 434 then
[19:52] <daveake> The timer is probably set to 50Hz, so that would be a very very rough PWM output
[19:52] <quick_question22> I am aware that the habduino can broadcast on quite a few different types of radio, APRS, 434Mhz and a few others, can one free up pins that would be used for types of transmission one isn't using?
[19:52] <daveake> yes
[19:53] <quick_question22> Ok, 50hz. by that you meqan the overall duty cycle of the PWM outputting pn would be 1/50 seconds long, or do you mean that the shortest time that the on pulse can take is 1/50 seconds and the overall duty cycle is 255/50 secs long?
[19:54] <daveake> latter
[19:55] <quick_question22> I am aware that with PWM an arduino can output a signal which, atleast if put through a low pass filter, makes a goo approximation of an analog signal of voltage somewhere from 0 to 5V
[19:55] <quick_question22> and that it does this in 5/255 Volt gradations.
[19:56] <quick_question22> Is it always that slow? Or is it usually faster on an out of the box arduino, but somehow slowed down by a setting in the habduino code?
[19:58] <quick_question22> So on an ordinary arduino one can produce a "faked" analog voltage using PWM, this works by turning on a 5v level for between 1/255th of a duty cycle and the full 255/255ths of theduty cycle.
[19:59] <daveake> <daveake> So in the code there'll be something to set the frequency of that timer
[19:59] <quick_question22> On a normal arduino, assuming no habdunio shield is connected, this duty cycle is relativelt short yes?
[19:59] <daveake> Normally yes, changeable in code - see an AtMega reference
[20:00] <daveake> Anyway, as I said, check to see what timer is used and what PWM pins are free
[20:00] <daveake> With a bit of luck this rtty timer conversation will be irrelevant
[20:00] <quick_question22> But the habduino, because it does one of it's radio outputs at 50Hz is going to have a duty cycle of 255/50= 5.1 seconds?
[20:01] <daveake> For PWM pins that use that timer, yes, as I explained above
[20:01] <quick_question22> with a minimum time for that 5V pulse being 0.02 seconds?
[20:01] <quick_question22> You mentioned an arduino MEGA though, I thought the habduino was only uno/duemilanove compatible?
[20:01] <daveake> no I didn't
[20:02] <quick_question22> atMega reference?
[20:02] <daveake> atmega not arduino mega
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[20:02] <daveake> 328p
[20:02] <quick_question22> Oh, sorry Atmega is the chip
[20:03] <Ian_> Atmega being the chip manufacturer
[20:03] <fsphil> atmega is the range
[20:03] <fsphil> microchip/atmel is the manufacturer
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[20:04] <quick_question22> So, on the habduino v4.1 I think that the only PWM capable pins normally free are pins 10 and 11
[20:04] <quick_question22> They look, from that link you gave me earlier daveake, to be on timers 1 and 2 shared by pins 12 and 9
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[20:06] <Ian_> Oooops thanks fsphil :)
[20:06] Topic changed on #highaltitude by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with balloons, rockets, gliders... more info: wiki.ukhas.org.uk
[20:07] <Ian_> PE2BZ Have a look at this. I assume you understand the range [ ] brackets. http://pastebin.com/aKKfaecd
[20:07] <quick_question22> hang on, no, we're going to be using a duemilanove for our habduino, that link http://playground.arduino.cc/Main/TimerPWMCheatsheet seems to be focused on arduinos that use an AtMega2560 chip, we'll have an AtMEga328 though.
[20:09] <Ian_> PE2BZ the delete is commented out of course - safety catch :)
[20:10] <quick_question22> Ok, I've found this https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/SecretsOfArduinoPWM which says our type of arduino, a duemilanove with a 328 chip, has three timers in it timers 0,1 and 2.
[20:12] <fsphil> be aware that arduino (the software) uses one already
[20:12] <quick_question22> I think I'm getting a bit confused. If one just considers an arduino's output pins then on the PWm capable ones, 3,5,6,9,10,11 one can do analogWrite. https://www.arduino.cc/en/Reference/analogWrite
[20:14] <daveake> yes
[20:14] <daveake> Now remove the ones that use the same timer as the rtty code
[20:15] <daveake> Then remove the ones that are used on your habduino board
[20:15] <quick_question22> Using this you give a value between 0 and 255 to the pin in your code, it uses a form of PWM to fake an analog level of 0v (no %v pulses per duty cycle), 0.0196V (1/255th of duty cycle spent at 5V the rest at 0v), through and up to a faked 2.5V output (127/255ths of futy cycle at 5v, rest at 0V) then up to full 100% duty cycle use to make 5V output.
[20:15] <daveake> See what's left
[20:15] <fsphil> it's not fake, it's real if it's filtered correctly :)
[20:16] <quick_question22> But you are saying that the overall length of the duty cycle becomes very large because the habduino code has something in it which sets a low frequency on a timer because of the need for low frequencies for the radio otuput?
[20:16] <fsphil> I'm not sure how arduino configure their analogue output, if it's pwm hardware directly or using an interrupt
[20:17] <quick_question22> fsphil, yes I know it can be made an actual level analog output if put through a low pass filter, we hope to do that.
[20:17] <fsphil> or are the analogue pins input only?
[20:18] <daveake> fsphil I think it uses PWM for the output too
[20:18] <daveake> But it defintely uses it for the RTTY timing
[20:18] <daveake> But the output one will be a high frequency so that won't cause an issue with analog outputs
[20:19] <quick_question22> The crucial thing in my team's plan is that we can do the following: take the habduino code as it stands, edit any pins that need fiddling with, then at a specific point in the habduino code we have a part that will say something like "analogWrite(11, value) ;", and we expect that pin 11 would stay at that value until next time the code loops around and reaches that analogwrite command again, at which time the valaue o
[20:19] <daveake> So whatever timer the RTTY interrupt uses will be efectively unusable for analog outputs
[20:20] <quick_question22> the new value for the variables "value" will get sent to be output from pin 11.
[20:20] <fsphil> yeah. just one timer left
[20:21] <daveake> IF you can find a free PWM pin, whose timer is not one used for the RTTY interrupt, then you can do that quick_question22
[20:21] <quick_question22> davake, you mean that analogWrite will be effectively unable to work because two of the duemilanove's three timers have been set to be slow?
[20:21] <daveake> ONE of them will be set to slow
[20:21] <daveake> Check the code and see which
[20:21] <quick_question22> So not only does the pin need to be free, it also needs to have a timer that hasn't been massively slowed down?
[20:21] <daveake> YES
[20:21] <fsphil> timer0 is used by the arduino software already
[20:21] <daveake> for milis() ?
[20:21] <fsphil> yeah
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[20:23] <Ian_> quick_question22 you can change your name if you want top 22_questions_quick
[20:23] <fsphil> unfamiliar with daveake's code, but I bet it uses timer1
[20:23] <fsphil> it's the only 16-bit one on the 328
[20:23] <quick_question22> daveake, is the habduino your code then?
[20:23] <daveake> Not necessarily my code
[20:23] <daveake> Short answer - no
[20:23] <daveake> Long answer - unless it's the Flextrack one
[20:24] <quick_question22> You are familiar with it though?
[20:24] <daveake> If it's not mine then no
[20:24] <daveake> If it's mine, also no :p
[20:24] <fsphil> hah
[20:24] <daveake> Anyhoo, as I keep saying, look at the source, please
[20:24] <quick_question22> Ok, sorry, I just wondered if you could point me towards the lines on which things are done
[20:24] <Ian_> Make sure that you check the RTTY signal timing before and then after you make your code changes so that you pick up any issues early
[20:25] <daveake> Well if it's mine it's at the top of rtty.ino
[20:25] <quick_question22> To check, with this type of habduino https://store.uputronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=57
[20:25] <quick_question22> we would want this code https://github.com/HABduino/HABduino/blob/master/Software/habduino_v4/habduino_v4.ino ?
[20:25] <daveake> It's down to what code you downloaded, not what board you have
[20:25] <daveake> oh sorry, no, that's not mine
[20:26] <quick_question22> Don't different habduino boards need different codes? I thought the pin layouts difered with version?
[20:27] <quick_question22> Have you ever flown with that code daveake?
[20:27] <quick_question22> the one I linked to?
[20:27] <quick_question22> Are there multiple different versions of code that the same habduino can manage to run then?
[20:27] <Ian_> Most people will exercise due dilligence and check the physical pins and the code for agreement
[20:28] <quick_question22> I thought that the habduino existed almost as a simple product which you could buy the board, download the code version appropriate to the board version, then make little modifications if you wanted extra features.
[20:28] <daveake> Well "little" depends on what the CPU can do,
[20:29] <Ian_> Many people have rolled their own code, board or both then adjusted things to meet their individual needs
[20:29] <daveake> which takes me back to the steps I recommended above, to find out what the CPU can do
[20:29] <quick_question22> Is there a version 4.1 code then? the most recent on the habduino github seems to be a code marked 4.0 from march 2015, is this cimpatible with the 4.1 shield?
[20:29] <daveake> AFAIK same code works on all versions
[20:30] <quick_question22> Except that one might sometimes need to relabel the pins, which is all done from the top few code lines, I assume there aren't any pin definitions tucked away in libraries?
[20:31] <daveake> AFAIK there haven't been any pin function changes. I suspect that the LED_OK/WARN thing was a correction rather than a change.
[20:32] <quick_question22> If one looks at the schematics for older boards the pin layouts seem to differ
[20:32] <quick_question22> Or am I somehow mistaken?
[20:32] <daveake> Dunno
[20:33] <quick_question22> https://github.com/HABduino/HABduino/blob/master/Hardware/HABduino41.pdf and this https://github.com/HABduino/HABduino/blob/master/Hardware/HABduino3.0.pdf
[20:34] <quick_question22> the Arduino_shieldno_silk part of the diagram looks different in the two schematics
[20:35] <Ian_> The uputronics blurb for the latest product is that you need the V4 code The latest code is availble here: https://github.com/HABduino/HABduino (You need the V4 code).
[20:37] <quick_question22> Ok, so with that v4 code how are the timers affected, which lines of the code affect them?
[20:40] <quick_question22> I also notice something in the code called dallastemperature, it seems to be for a temperature sensor on pin 5. Is the temperatrue sensor essential for function or could it be disabled, to free up pin 5? Does the temperature sensing in the habduino code do anything mroe than give temperatrue data that can be analysed when received from thr ground?
[20:41] <Ian_> Slow down, read up and get to understand what is happening. Until the Habduino, there were no off the shelf trackers. People were encouraged to roll there own and given the assistance to do that. The Habduino and others came about because teachers don't have the time to do what they do whilst also getting to grips with a native tracker build and herding the project kids.
[20:41] <fsphil> coding your own is still very much encouraged
[20:41] <Ian_> The temp sensor is the DS18B20 and uses the one wire interface
[20:42] <fsphil> making your own too
[20:42] <quick_question22> Would the habduino code be a good basis to start from?
[20:43] <Ian_> Very much agree with you fsphil. I was saying that the Off the shelf variety was to meet a problem with busy teachers (to a degree) and not a shortcut for scrip cutting and pasting without reading and understanding.
[20:43] <fsphil> probably not, it's quite big
[20:44] <quick_question22> https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/SecretsOfArduinoPWM
[20:44] <Ian_> The Habduino code is a great source of clues and inspiration as long as you take it module by module and don't get confused
[20:45] <fsphil> yeah
[20:45] <quick_question22> at that link it seems to say that the duemilanove ranges in frequnecy used for PWm from 347.2Hz to 694.4Hz, hos does this end up being lowered to 50Hz on the habduino system?
[20:47] <daveake> initialise_interrupt() does it
[20:47] <quick_question22> Ok, it seems in that habduino code that on line 278 timer1 is set to a buad rate of 50.
[20:47] <daveake> It's atmega code rather than Arduino
[20:47] <Ian_> upu wrote a few good tutorial bits of code about RTTY pwm generation, keying the NTS2B tx and similar with the GPS. All in isolation so no confusion. The keying shift is best done with a few resistors to keep the PWM pins and codespace free for other things.
[20:47] <quick_question22> that means that somehow those pins which would normally be in the several hundred Hz range go down to 50Hz?
[20:48] <fsphil> forget the pins, it's all about the timer
[20:48] <fsphil> the timer can be made to drive the pins, but they're separate things
[20:49] <fsphil> this is where reading the atmega328 datasheet will come in handy
[20:49] <fsphil> things are a lot clearer when you see what the hardware itself is doing
[20:49] <fsphil> not what arduino does with it
[20:50] <quick_question22> Timer 1 seems to control pins 9 and 10, why on earth would the habduino want to slow these pins down, they don't seem to be used for any PWM in the habduino, they just go to, repectively, an LED and to nothing?
[20:51] <daveake> The timer is used to generate an interrupt, not for PWM
[20:52] <quick_question22> Ah, ok, so the timer within the code controls the interrupt function, any use of PWM by the habduino the way it normally works is on pins controlled by timer0 or timer2, which are unaffected by latering timer1 to a low PWm rate?
[20:52] <fsphil> there's no pwm on timer1 in that code
[20:52] <fsphil> timer1 isn't connected to those output pins
[20:53] <fsphil> (it can be, but in this code it isn't)
[20:53] <quick_question22> timer1 connects to outputs 9 and 10 doesn't it?
[20:53] <quick_question22> outputs 11 and 3 use timer2
[20:53] <quick_question22> timer 0 gives outputs 5 and 6
[20:53] <fsphil> it *can* be connected to output pins
[20:54] <quick_question22> In the habduino code timer1 is affecting pins which aren't being used for PWM?
[20:54] <fsphil> the code the timer1 interrupt may or may not be altering other pins
[20:54] <fsphil> the code the timer1 interrupt triggers*
[20:55] <quick_question22> That leaves pins 6,5,3 and 11 giving outputs which are working on timers 0 and 2. Timers 0 and 2 are working at the usual high speeds? so pins 6,5,3 and 11 could in theory give PWM based analogWrite voltages?
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[20:56] <quick_question22> pins 10 and 9 could also perhaps give those sort of PWm analogWrite voltages but would be doing so over a very slow frequency (duty cycle of several seconds, or of 1/50th of a second) so would need a big capacitor on the low-pass filter?
[20:57] <fsphil> you can't alter timer1 without affecting the rtty speed
[20:58] <fsphil> well, maybe. but there's no point
[20:59] <quick_question22> would the very low speed used be likely to cause problems for trying to do analogWrite() on pins 9 and 10, or would these not be problems with the correct sort of low pas filter?
[20:59] <Ian_> You have the Habdiuino and an Arduino Uno already. Get it working as supplied, rejig for the other board that you wish to use, with the two serial ports I believe, and when that's working save your code and start looking at what you can remove and what changes you might want to make.
[20:59] <daveake> and to answer the other part, the timers are independent so slowing down timer1 doesn't stop you using the other timers
[20:59] <daveake> meanwhile, Sherlock
[21:00] <fsphil> oh sherlock
[21:00] <fsphil> bbl
[21:00] <quick_question22> The slowed down timer1 could still be used with a low pass filter couldn't it?
[21:00] <Ian_> I have a plane to book
[21:01] <fsphil> check if you have an unused timer
[21:01] <quick_question22> I think there are two unused timers 0 and 2, so pins 6,5,11 and 3 should probably be at normal frequencies?
[21:02] <quick_question22> Is there any way that the habduino code can be modified to not need that timer for the interrupt, could one just throw in some constants somewhere and be able to run the interrupts without having to have timer1 slowed down?
[21:03] <quick_question22> Could timer 1 run at the normal frequency and just have a constant to divide something by making changing the timer's rate un-necessary?
[21:07] <quick_question22> Ok, so what are pins 3,5 and 6 doing on the habduino shield, are any of them pins which are only used if APRS transmitting is used, because if they are then they could be free to be used as analogWrite outputs.
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[21:16] <aadamson> ah the joys of timer hell... lol
[21:17] <quick_question22> aadamson, might you be able to shed some light on what the timers do and how this will afect the possibility or lack thereof for sending out analog signals from a habduino?
[21:18] <aadamson> I think you have had the question answered above, but seem to not want to take that advise. my suggestion is like above... read the datasheet on the processor and understand the basics of arduino.
[21:18] <aadamson> I think everyone has already told you that the timers and the pins configurations are completely separate.
[21:18] <aadamson> they can be combined, but they don't have to be
[21:18] <aadamson> the rest is really learning you should be able to figure out.
[21:20] <aadamson> you probably need to look at whatever arduino you are going to use to see which pins can support analogWrite, there is a difference from a pin that has an ADC function and can support analogRead
[21:21] <aadamson> and one that has a DAC and can support analogWrite and it varies by board, processor, etc
[21:22] <quick_question22> Where can I find that processor datasheet?
[21:22] <aadamson> e.g. if you have a pin that can't generate a scaled voltage based upon an analogWrite value because it has no DAC function, then you have to generate PWM to fake a DAC like function and in order do that you have to use a timer
[21:22] <aadamson> what board?
[21:23] <aadamson> earlier boards with the small processor used - http://www.atmel.com/devices/ATMEGA328P.aspx
[21:24] <aadamson> quick_question22, go here and start - https://www.arduino.cc/
[21:24] <aadamson> the products section by board is pretty good for telling what pins are on what board and what they can do, and what processor, then just look up the processor for it's datasheet with google
[21:25] <aadamson> but don't expect the datasheet to tell you how to do it in arduino, it will just help you understand what the processor is capable of (in this case by pin if you want to now that)
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[21:27] <quick_question_2> connection just failed on me
[21:28] <quick_question_2> I've found some datasheets for the processor, I'll try to see what i can glean from them. thanks for the help and sorry for taking up your time.
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[21:28] <aadamson> I was trying to be nice, really I was...
[21:29] <mfa298> I think he needs to read the source code / datasheets etc.
[21:29] <mfa298> or possibly if he want's something significantly diferent to write his own code.
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[21:45] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[21:52] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong (PM ?)
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[22:32] <daveake> mfa298: I think he needs to read the damn answers he already got
[22:32] <daveake> s/quick/slow_and_much_repeated/
[22:44] <mfa298> well yes ....
[22:44] <mfa298> it was starting to sound like a broken record with how people were having to repeat the same things :p
[22:46] <daveake> yup
[22:46] <daveake> I think I gave him the steps 3 times, plus others did too
[22:46] <fsphil> and will again
[22:47] <daveake> don't interrupt
[22:47] <daveake> sorry didn't mean to pin that on you
[22:47] <daveake> I'll take a timeout :)
[22:47] <fsphil> you're a bit jittery
[22:48] <daveake> Yeah, I'm trying to modulate my width post-turkey but the diet is making me jumpy
[22:50] <fsphil> things are a bit volatile
[22:53] <mfa298> I could do with modulating my width, currently is seems fairly static.
[22:56] <cm13g09> mfa298: I find that I generally do OK not having a lift in the block of flats....
[22:57] <cm13g09> Walking 20 minutes a day to Hoffers and back also helps!
[22:58] <mfa298> downside is you need that 20 minutes to burn off the lunch deal :p
[22:59] <cm13g09> mfa298: lol
[22:59] <cm13g09> I've cut back on it actually
[22:59] <cm13g09> instead, opting for the apples from the Sainsbury's next door!
[23:00] <mfa298> although it's been a while since I've had their excellent Pies and Donuts
[23:01] <cm13g09> mfa298: heh
[23:01] <cm13g09> mfa298: We really ought to arrange a pubbing
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[00:00] --- Mon Jan 9 2017