highaltitude.log.20161221

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[00:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 037 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
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[07:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-14 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-14
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[08:08] <AndyEsser> morning
[08:09] <SA6BSS-Mike> gm
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[08:12] <PE2BZ> Good morning
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[09:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03python_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=python_chase
[09:08] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PYSKY2 after 0317 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PYSKY2
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[09:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ZS5JW_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ZS5JW_chase
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[09:52] <AndyEsser> my new office has 3 phase power....
[09:52] Action: AndyEsser ponders
[09:53] <fsphil> you're just going through a phase
[09:53] <AndyEsser> lol
[09:55] <gonzo_> that's an interesting angle
[09:55] <gonzo_> I'm staying neutral here
[09:55] <mfa298> it could go around in circles
[09:55] <AndyEsser> I can't tell whether I hate you all
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[09:55] <AndyEsser> or admire you all...
[09:56] <gonzo_> you have generated alot of puns
[09:58] <mfa298> http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
[09:58] <gonzo_> that hertz
[09:58] <mfa298> I realise spelling is optional here, but that just came to mind.
[09:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CZ_HAB_OL - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CZ_HAB_OL
[10:00] <AndyEsser> mfa298: Y U NO LINK OATMEAL?!
[10:00] <AndyEsser> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling
[10:01] <AndyEsser> recommendations for a good (not portable) spelling iron
[10:01] <AndyEsser> o ffs...
[10:01] <AndyEsser> soldering*
[10:02] <gonzo_> I always wonder where the convention of not capitalising the first letter on IRC posts came from
[10:02] <gonzo_> (unless it's possissive I)
[10:02] <AndyEsser> typewriters
[10:02] <AndyEsser> :P
[10:03] <gonzo_> I've used acouple of weller ones. over the years.
[10:03] <Vaizki> China's space agency has officially confirmed that it has been funding research into the controversial space propulsion technology EmDrive, and that it plans to add the technology to Chinese satellites imminently.
[10:03] <gonzo_> they were gas. As nicads were not up to the job
[10:03] <Vaizki> \o/
[10:04] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: I presume they mean new satellites, and not retrofitting satellites already in orbit? :P
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[10:05] <Vaizki> source: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/emdrive-chinese-space-agency-put-controversial-tech-onto-satellites-soon-possible-1596328
[10:06] <gonzo_> I even used the pyropen (I think it was) in preference to the bench iron. As the bench was too cluttered for a corded iron
[10:07] <AndyEsser> so some sort of Weller is good as a bench iron?
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[10:08] <daveake> Weller Weller Weller? Huh. Tell me more.
[10:08] <AndyEsser> what sort of operating temperature and tip etc should I be looking for?
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[10:10] <daveake> summer nights are coming
[10:11] <daveake> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlgDbTpFYJc&feature=youtu.be&t=25s
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[10:15] <gonzo_> you got in there like greased lightning
[10:15] <daveake> As for irons, I got a Metcal as it was about right for my budget, the bits aren't expensive, and can be quickly changed. I also got some spare elements (which just clip in and out) to make it quicker and easier to change bits
[10:16] <daveake> Ed isn't around, but if he was he'd say that JBC are the dog's danglies
[10:16] <gonzo_> I suspect that butane irons still don't have anythiong like accurate temp control
[10:16] <gonzo_> lipo/liIon based irons should be better
[10:16] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: yea, not too interested in gas :P
[10:17] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: or mains?
[10:17] <fsphil> or a samsung galaxy, but you have to work very quickly
[10:17] <gonzo_> I use them as I could not/cannot be sure of having mains power to recharge
[10:17] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: you don't have mains in your shack/shed/workshop?
[10:18] <gonzo_> depends where I am
[10:18] <gonzo_> also quicker to re-gas than recharge
[10:18] <AndyEsser> fair enough
[10:18] <gonzo_> (And also I have butane ones and i'm too tight to buy anything else)
[10:18] <AndyEsser> this won't be going anywhere but workshop (hence why I said not portable) so mains is a safe bet
[10:19] <gonzo_> temp question, prob depends on if you want lead free or not
[10:21] <AndyEsser> lead free would be better, no?
[10:22] <gonzo_> if I'm outside, I'm usually soldering heavier things, like N types. And in a breeze, it's supprising how much that cools the tip. Not ideal when the joint is sinking so much. So upping the gas power manually is useful.
[10:22] <gonzo_> ok that is not relevant to your app
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[10:27] <AndyEsser> is hotter always better?
[10:28] <mfa298> lead free solder tends to need more heat than the leaded stuff.
[10:29] <mfa298> I think there might be a case of too hot if it burns off the rosin before it can do it's job.
[10:29] <mfa298> or maybe you just need to be quicker
[10:32] <daveake> What you want is a stable temperature rather than just hotter - less chance of damaging anything
[10:32] <daveake> which is where the metcals and (more so) JBCs earn their keep
[10:33] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[10:34] <cm13g09> morning mfa298
[10:34] <daveake> Depends on what you're doing - for much soldering anything will do, but the moment you try and solder something like an N plug or anything else that sucks the heat away, you'll wish for more power
[10:35] <AndyEsser> yea, makes sense
[10:35] <AndyEsser> it'll be a combination of stuff like N-types and corrections to PCBs I guess
[10:36] <fsphil> or desolder something connected to a big ground plane
[10:36] <fsphil> that's horrible without a good iron
[10:38] <mfa298> morning cm13g09
[10:39] <gonzo_> a 50W weller will work well on the heiviey jobs
[10:39] <gonzo_> coupled with a bigger tip for the thermal mass
[10:40] <gonzo_> I find that the no-clean fluxs tend to burn off quickly. Rosin hangs around a bit, so is less critical of your timing
[10:41] <gonzo_> heavier
[10:42] <gonzo_> you don't have to have one iron. It's a case of 'horses for lasagne'
[10:43] <AndyEsser> lol
[10:44] <AndyEsser> well got a 60W Weller 370 degree iron, should be good enough to get me started, then can upgrade down the line :)
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[11:02] <SnkMtn000> Greetings all. I've installed the Andoid app HAB Tracker on my phone. My phone showed up on the tracker map just fine.....
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[11:03] <SnkMtn000> ...but my GPS telemetry device SnkMtn001, despite decoding correctly would not display the lat and long. Elevation yes, time yes.
[11:05] <SnkMtn000> My payload, SnkMtn001 is listed in the "All payloads" in fl-digi.
[11:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[11:13] <mfa298> SnkMtn000: what radio/sdr are you using and is dl-fldigi managing to decode your payload
[11:13] <x-f> where does it not display lat and lon? in dl-fldigi?
[11:14] <x-f> your payload doc has latitude and longitude as "string" not "coordinate", but i'm not sure of the possible consequences
[11:15] <SnkMtn000> fl-digi decodes just fine. The "HAB Tracker" app on my andoid phone also decodes the 300 baud RTTY stream just fine.
[11:16] <SnkMtn000> The andoid app on my phone will display both the time and altitude just fine from the RTTY stream but not the latitude and longitude.
[11:17] <SnkMtn000> Also the payload does not show up on the habhub tracker map, but the phone "Car tracker" does.
[11:18] <mfa298> SnkMtn000: if it's not making it to the map then that would suggest something in the payload doc isn't right
[11:19] <x-f> check the log when you are uploading - http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[11:19] <SnkMtn000> the Well the payload doc is set to 100 baud and the phone app is limited to 50 or 300 baud so that could explain that problem.
[11:20] <Ian_> Hi AndyEsser, what soldering iron do you use/own at present?
[11:20] <SnkMtn000> the other problem is with the phone app itself.
[11:20] <mfa298> what speed are you actually sending at ? thats what will matter for the phone app (and dl-fldigi)
[11:21] <SnkMtn000> it decondes the raw stream just fine and will populate the time and altitude fields but not the latitude and longitude fields
[11:22] <SnkMtn000> the phone app is limited to 50 or 300 baud. as I say the app decodes the raw rtty stream just fine at 300 baud.
[11:22] <mfa298> dl-fldigi should populate all the fields if the payload doc is right, if there's an issue with the payload doc then the map and dl-fldigi won't know how to deal with all the parameters
[11:22] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03M10WX-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M10WX-11
[11:22] <SnkMtn000> I'm test the andoid phone app, not fl-digi.
[11:22] <mfa298> SnkMtn000: I know what the phoen app can do, that's why I asked what you're sending at.
[11:23] <SnkMtn000> 300 buad
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[11:23] <mfa298> well it sounds like dl-fldigi isn't working properly either so I'd get that working first as it's much easier to diagnose and fix.
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[11:26] <SnkMtn000> ah, the logtail is real time, not historical I'll test again when I get home and create a new payload at 300 baud.
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[11:38] <dbrooke> SnkMtn000: if you're receiving the telemetry sentence then speed is unlikely to be the problem (though useful to have it correct to allow auto-configure in dl-fldigi), more likely to be your field definitions in the payload doc
[11:38] <dbrooke> logtail should help with fixing it
[11:39] <AndyEsser> Ian_: cheapo £20 thing from Maplin
[11:40] <Ian_> Does that mean Antex or something with a bit of 1/4" copper in the end?
[11:43] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RSIST - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
[11:43] <Ian_> My first Iron was a Henley Solon 25w, with a 1/4" copper bit. At that time it was what the RAF were using, so "Standard faire"
[11:44] <Ian_> I used a Weller with the magnetic bit and that was OK, but bought myself an Antex X25. I often hanger for something a little cleverer, but have never taken the plunge.
[11:44] <SnkMtn000> Thanks to dbrooke and mfa298
[11:45] <Ian_> I think where hand soldering is concerned leaded has to be the way to go. Save yourself the grief.
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[13:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RYDE after 0310 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RYDE
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[13:55] <G8FJG> Test log in ....couldn't connect all day yesterday
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[14:01] <G8FJG> AndyEsser : been using irons for 50 plus years...Antex or Weller are ok
[14:02] <G8FJG> Try and get them with silicone leads...they don't burn as easy :-)
[14:03] <AndyEsser> cheers
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[15:11] <kissenger> hi. new to irc, but after some advice on radio comms. can anyone help?
[15:13] <PE2BZ> Hi. Welcome ;-)
[15:13] <PE2BZ> radio comms in general, or radio comms for a balloon flight ?
[15:14] <TIBS01> <--- 2e0sgg
[15:14] <TIBS01> callsign
[15:14] <TIBS01> :D
[15:14] <TIBS01> anyone know me on here
[15:14] <TIBS01> lol
[15:14] <kissenger> hi. balloon flight. working on a tracker, nearlly there. ive got the RTTY working following the usual tutorials now looking into dominoEX.
[15:15] <kissenger> Im just wondering if it is necessary to implement or a nice to have? is it the usual solution for hab trackers?
[15:15] <AndyEsser> RTTY or Lora are the usuals
[15:16] <AndyEsser> in the year I've been in this channel, no-one has done dominoEX
[15:16] <AndyEsser> if you're outside of the UK you might be able to use APRS
[15:16] <AndyEsser> (check local legalities)
[15:16] <gonzo_> there have been dominoEX and contestia flights
[15:17] <gonzo_> the contestia ones have been very successful
[15:17] <AndyEsser> I should have worded that better as "I haven't seen anyone use them" :P
[15:17] <gonzo_> rtty is the default, as it's easy to encode and rx
[15:17] <gonzo_> not seen dominoEX for a while
[15:19] <kissenger> uk based so APRS not an option.
[15:19] <AndyEsser> RTTY is simple and easy, and there are a large number of listeners all over the UK
[15:19] <AndyEsser> Lora requires some of it's own hardware to TX and RX (I believe) and there are fewer listeners
[15:19] <gonzo_> some of the mfsk modes will work below the level that rtty needs, but it's not a huge gain. As sigs tend to be strong till the hab goes over the horizon. If it's over the UK, then there are other stations to get the signals. The other modes only give extra range when habs go out to sea
[15:20] <kissenger> if i understand correctly, the alternative modes (dominoEX and contestia) are more robust means of transmitting the data, ie fewer errors? Is that correct?
[15:21] <gonzo_> Rtty is not as efficient as other modes, but if only sending simple location and a few telem values, then rtty at low rates is good enough.
[15:21] <gonzo_> I suspect (others can comment) that those modes have some FEC?
[15:21] <kissenger> when you say low rates, what is typical baud for rtty on a hab flight?
[15:21] <gonzo_> rtty frames to the UKHAS standard have a crc
[15:22] <gonzo_> 50baud is best
[15:22] <gonzo_> some people use 300baud, which limits the range. And no need unless you are sending lots of data, like SSDV
[15:22] <kissenger> succesfully working at 300baud in the comfort of my man-cave, do i really need to go as low as 50? my tracker will be spending more time transmitting than tracking!
[15:23] <gonzo_> for basic tracking, 50bd and 10mW at 434MHz is good enough
[15:23] <AndyEsser> 50bd is recommended
[15:23] <AndyEsser> You're welcome to try 300 :)
[15:24] <AndyEsser> but 50 might get better range
[15:24] <gonzo_> the greater bandwidth needs higher SNR
[15:24] <kissenger> wonderful thanks. no - will take the advice of those more experienced!
[15:24] <AndyEsser> that's a rarity...
[15:25] <gonzo_> 50bd will work to the horizon. 300bd tends to be shorter range
[15:25] <kissenger> so is the advice to not bother with dominoEX or alternative?
[15:25] <AndyEsser> nothing stopping you putting 2 trackers on your balloon :) 1 at 50 and 1 at 300 and test the performance difference
[15:25] <gonzo_> some groups do use 300bd. If there are close receivers or you are doing all the tracking yourself, then it could be adequate
[15:25] <kissenger> true. maybe down the line, ill be happy to get one working at the moment!
[15:26] <gonzo_> for your first flights, I'd suggest keeping as simple as possibe
[15:26] <gonzo_> but everyone is here to experiment, so it's your call
[15:28] <gonzo_> my own advice would be, get a basic tracking beacon working. Then you kave a known design that you can fly with future experiments. So you have a chance of getting your kit back (if that is required)
[15:28] <gonzo_> fly as a backup I mean
[15:29] <kissenger> thanks for the info. my absolute requirement is to get the kit back, so trying to make it as robust as possible. but if basic rtty at low baud is a not-uncommon solution i am happy to go with that until i get the benefit of my own experience.
[15:29] <gonzo_> kissenger, where about are you?
[15:29] <kissenger> bristol-ish
[15:30] <gonzo_> you have a good landmass to fly over then. Poke your location into the predictor and have a look
[15:30] <gonzo_> also a good nukber of receiving stations in the area and usual balloon path
[15:31] <AndyEsser> nukber indeed :P
[15:31] <gonzo_> sounds like a norwiegian beer
[15:32] <AndyEsser> I could do with beer
[15:33] <AndyEsser> 30 mins until hometime :(
[15:35] <gonzo_> snap
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[15:35] <gonzo_> no enthusiasm this week
[15:36] <AndyEsser> likewise
[15:36] <AndyEsser> I lost my enthusiasm for this project a long time ago
[15:36] <AndyEsser> but it pays the bills
[15:39] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE-M -> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap
[15:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03WB8ELK-2 after 0319 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-2
[15:43] Action: cm13g09 is doing battle with insurers.... I've never known anything so boring!
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[16:09] <mfa298> kissenger: reading up a bit, DominoEX doesn't have FEC (error correction) but I think thor (which is similar) does, I think contessia also has FEC
[16:09] <mfa298> but as gonzo_ has said, they don't gain you much over rtty in most cases
[16:10] <mfa298> they're also harder to generate (need fairly accurate timing and accurate tone shifts)
[16:17] Action: cm13g09 waves at mfa298
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[16:24] Action: mfa298 waves back
[16:24] Action: PE2BZ is standing close to Hook of Holland and wondering where those waves come from
[16:28] <cm13g09> mfa298: -> PM
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[16:34] <ryde_> Hello, does anybody know roughly how long it takes to have a flight document approved on the #habhub irc?
[16:43] <ryde_> no worries, all sorted! :)
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[17:11] <WB9SBD> Hello! Anyone here?
[17:12] <jakeio> Upu, does your LoRa expansion board work with Pi 3 headers? Just curious, if not I'll be using my other Pi (zeroes) with them.
[17:13] <daveake> yes
[17:14] <daveake> aside from the old A/B models which had 26-pin headers, they're all the same
[17:14] <jakeio> Oh, splendid!
[17:14] <jakeio> I knew Pi Zero/Pi A+/Pi B+ were the same, didn't know the 3 was the same too.
[17:14] <jakeio> And the 2s.
[17:15] <jakeio> Thanks again!
[17:16] <WB9SBD> does anyone here have the url of he page that is tracking Bills balloon?
[17:18] <dbrooke> maybe https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-2
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[17:25] <WB9SBD> Thanks! Amazing little flight eh?
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[17:36] <Ian_> What's particularly interesting is that it appears not to have had the excursions that Leo's B64 did, taking time out to visit Canada and the NPole. Maybe on the next orbit to visit Santa!
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[17:37] <SpeedEvil> It's only done three orbits
[17:37] <SpeedEvil> give it time
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[18:00] <fsphil> !orbit :p
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[20:05] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[23:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[00:00] --- Thu Dec 22 2016