highaltitude.log.20161213

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[00:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
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[05:15] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS21 after 0318 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS21
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[06:24] <PE2BZ> !track ubseds21
[06:24] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Here you go - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ubseds21
[06:24] <PE2BZ> !track ubseds18
[06:24] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Here you go - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ubseds18
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[07:56] <AndyEsse1> morning
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[08:10] <fsphil> haut de la matinée pour tu
[08:12] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
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[08:13] <AndyEsse1> was that... a colloquial Irish greeting... in French?
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[08:18] <number10> Et le reste de la journée à vous fsphil
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[08:50] <AndyEsse1> the RTLSDR is once again shipping to the wrong depot
[08:50] <AndyEsse1> *sigh*
[09:18] <mfa298> couriers seem to have a way of being particularly special
[09:19] <AndyEsse1> http://www.dhl.com/content/g0/en/express/tracking.shtml?AWB=6770158124&brand=DHL
[09:20] <AndyEsse1> I mean... seriously
[09:20] <AndyEsse1> it's spent more time bouncing around the UK DHL depots than getting from Hong Kong
[09:20] <StuartL> That's pretty unusual for DHL. That's more common with ParcelFarce.
[09:20] <fsphil> victory tour
[09:20] <AndyEsse1> fsphil: via Leipzig :P
[09:21] <mfa298> cm13g09: I should have some unused DS18B20s I can drop down to you, they're cheap china+eBay ones and I've not tested any yet so there's a case of buyer beware.
[09:21] <StuartL> I have had a package stuck in ParcelFarce for weeks, during which no-one there could tell me where it was.
[09:21] <StuartL> Then it magically arrived on my doorstep and they still didn't know it had been delivered.
[09:21] <AndyEsse1> lol
[09:22] <fsphil> nice
[09:22] <mfa298> I've had DHL being special in the past, They managed to deliver a film once (for a film soc) and then pick it up before we had a chance to show it.
[09:22] <mfa298> then managed to ship the replacement up north
[09:23] <AndyEsse1> lol
[09:23] <AndyEsse1> I mean, when you think about how much stuff these couriers are shipping around the world it's impressive
[09:23] <AndyEsse1> but sometimes you hear/experience this moments
[09:23] <daveake> I've had FedEx lose a 20kg lump of metal
[09:23] <AndyEsse1> and it's like "How on earth do they actually deliver anything?!"
[09:24] <AndyEsse1> I had Amazon leave something in a "safe place" on Sunday... next to the front door leaning aginst the wall...
[09:24] <daveake> Not only did they lose it, but they tried to charge my customer import dutires
[09:24] <StuartL> AndyEsse1: I walked past one of our neighbours and they had a huge Amazon box sat in front of their front door.
[09:24] <AndyEsse1> wow
[09:25] <StuartL> Fortunately we have a key so I shifted it inside.
[09:25] <StuartL> But the madness of "It's ok, it'll be safe here in the pouring rain where every passing scumbag can see it." baffles me.
[09:25] <AndyEsse1> when they deliver to my house, they're usually pretty good and leave it with one of my neighbours (students who are always in)
[09:26] <AndyEsse1> but at GF's they just left it on the step...
[09:26] <fsphil> I've had them deliver stuff to my work, even when addressed to my house. that's a bit creepy
[09:27] <daveake> I think I mentioned this before, but last week a friend had an Amazon delivery left in his bin. On bin day.
[09:27] <AndyEsse1> o yea
[09:27] <StuartL> daveake: I've heard of that happening but been lucky enough not to happen to me. Sucks.
[09:27] <AndyEsse1> I remember you saying
[09:27] <AndyEsse1> fsphil: spooky
[09:33] <Vaizki> I once had a 2000 GBP wristwatch delivery (insured and signed for) left at my doorstep in the snow where it spent 3 days before I found it after seeing it as delivered
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[09:34] <Vaizki> the thought of fraud did pass through my mind thanks for asking :)
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[09:36] <fsphil> a watch that costs 2000 is fraud enough :)
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[09:38] <AndyEsse1> in this modern day and age, isn't it time for some "Disruptive SoLoMo Startup Focusing on making the world a better place" to change how delivery/courier stuff is done?
[09:38] <fsphil> what?
[09:39] <fsphil> going forward we should energise the synergy
[09:40] <AndyEsse1> fsphil: You don't know SoLoMo?
[09:40] <StuartL> AndyEsse1: I've wondered before about mesh delivery networks.
[09:40] <AndyEsse1> :P
[09:40] <StuartL> AndyEsse1: For "it'll get there eventually" delivery.
[09:40] Action: mfa298 looks for his BS bingo card, I think I might have got a line :p
[09:40] <AndyEsse1> mfa298: :)
[09:40] <AndyEsse1> Silicon Valley (TV Show) was cringey
[09:41] Action: fsphil googles
[09:42] Action: fsphil wishes he hadn't googled
[09:51] <AndyEsse1> hope the RTL SDR turns up before xmas :(
[09:53] <fsphil> all I want for christmas is UHF
[09:54] <AndyEsse1> :)
[09:54] <AndyEsse1> OMG... I need a jumper with that on...
[09:54] <StuartL> Christmas jumper!
[09:54] <pb0ahx> GM all
[09:54] <pb0ahx> !flights
[09:54] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03UBSEDS18 434.612.5 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(64a5), 03UBSEDS21 434.610 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(2e88)
[09:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DK6GB _chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK6GB%20_chase
[09:59] <cm13g09> mfa298: If you have, that'd be perfect and then craag can keep one in the fridge.....
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[10:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PYSKY after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PYSKY
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[10:58] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ER1TUM/AM after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ER1TUM%2FAM
[11:07] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[12:24] <AndyEsse1> wait... how long have I been AndyEsse1 ?!
[12:24] Nick change: AndyEsse1 -> AndyEsser
[12:25] <StuartL> Since you logged in this morning, apparently.
[12:25] <fsphil> you are The One, Neo
[12:25] <AndyEsser> I logged in this morning?
[12:25] <StuartL> Er, I'll rephrase.
[12:25] <StuartL> Since I logged in this morning.
[12:25] <StuartL> :D
[12:25] <AndyEsser> :P
[12:26] <AndyEsser> suspect it's since the netsplit I got caught in a few days ago
[12:26] <StuartL> (when I say rephrase, I mean, of course, correct my sentence)
[12:39] <Vaizki> AndyEsser, Dec 10 05:38:01 * AndyEsse1 (~ops@ec2-54-194-31-228.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) has joined
[12:40] <AndyEsser> cheers
[12:40] <Vaizki> that's how I became Vaizki
[12:40] <Vaizki> I was vaizki.. then some client capitalized my name.. didn't notice it and it stuck ;)
[12:41] <fsphil> i'm case sensitive
[12:41] Action: fsphil keeps his distance
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[12:53] <gonzo_> is that 'micro-agression' ?
[12:55] <RocketBoy_Androi> Hey laurenceb_ i looked up some supercaps - looks like the esr goes up with decreasing temp - maybe 3 - 5 fold 25c esr at -40 but prob still ok to fire a few ohm resistive cutdown or igniter
[12:56] <Laurenceb_> ah interesting, thanks
[12:56] <Laurenceb_> I was modelling thermal behavious of my payload enclosure
[12:56] <Laurenceb_> *behaviour
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> looks like it wont get very cold inside with 25mm blue foam
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> so I'm designing PCB
[12:57] <AndyEsser> for Rockoon?
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> yes
[12:58] <AndyEsser> Progress!
[12:58] <AndyEsser> :)
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[13:00] <Laurenceb_> https://i.sli.mg/RpRNoe.jpg
[13:01] <AndyEsser> pwetty
[13:01] <Laurenceb_> basically that with air cored transformer driver swapped for simpler 3x pyro/cutdown driver
[13:05] <fsphil> good soldering
[13:13] <StuartL> Looks reflowed?
[13:14] <Laurenceb_> yes
[13:14] <StuartL> Good work. Toaster oven?
[13:14] <Laurenceb_> no just hot air tool
[13:15] <StuartL> Wow, very good.
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> I like to do prototype boards in sections so its easier to test
[13:15] <StuartL> The finish is superb for a hot air tool.
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> I do prototypes with hot air all day at work
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> so plenty of practice :P
[13:16] <Laurenceb_> thats an old version, it used an air cored transformer to ignite the rockoon
[13:16] <Laurenceb_> right hand side of board is all the transformer driver stuff, thats getting ripped out for supercaps I think
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> then everything can run from 4xAAA
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> with no risk of brownout when pyros are triggered
[13:20] <StuartL> What can I see between pins 7 and 8 of the STM32? Is there a track going between those pins?
[13:21] <Vaizki> looks like a grounding bodge wire?
[13:21] <StuartL> Also: I was expecting to see a barometric pressure sensor. Is that the silver component behind the programming header?
[13:21] <Laurenceb_> its just ground flood
[13:22] <Laurenceb_> but yeah that is not quite ideal, the pad ended up being a little large
[13:22] <Laurenceb_> SturartL: this board is there is ignite rockoons, and do nothing else
[13:22] <fsphil> PWRBUT -- power butt
[13:22] <StuartL> Ah, ok, thanks :)
[13:23] <fsphil> what's the gopro port doing?
[13:23] <Laurenceb_> triggering a GoPro
[13:23] <fsphil> makes sense
[13:24] <StuartL> Sounds like a well named port.
[13:24] <Laurenceb_> connected to the GoPros GPIO via rear port
[13:28] <edmoore> looks nice
[13:28] <edmoore> a slight twitch at your power cable though
[13:29] <Laurenceb_> I had this at the conference in 2015 :P
[13:30] <edmoore> you had that horrible power cable/
[13:30] <Laurenceb_> heh thats a 5 min bodge
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[13:30] <Laurenceb_> for current consumption testing
[13:30] <Laurenceb_> pity GoPro dont denounce their gpio, thats v annoying
[13:30] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
[13:30] <edmoore> denouce it?
[13:31] <Vaizki> debounce?
[13:31] <Vaizki> beyonce your gpio shake that ttl
[13:31] <Vaizki> oops coffee...
[13:31] <Laurenceb_> yeah I added debounce cap, but it triggers the GoPro when its plugged in
[13:31] <Laurenceb_> just a tiny annoyance :D
[13:34] <AndyEsser> rg58 should be fine for my 1090MHz antenna, yes?
[13:35] <adamgreig> for a few ft, sure
[13:35] <AndyEsser> hm
[13:35] <AndyEsser> more likely 10m...
[13:36] <adamgreig> you'll see about 6dB loss
[13:36] <adamgreig> 100W in would get 25W out sort of thing
[13:36] <adamgreig> for 10m of rg58 at 1090MHz
[13:37] <AndyEsser> hmm
[13:38] <adamgreig> in comparison, wf103 would be about 1.3dB loss over the same distance/freq
[13:39] <adamgreig> about 75W out for your 100W in
[13:39] <AndyEsser> maplin has wf100 not wf103
[13:40] <adamgreig> the sooner you stop trying to buy anything the maplin, the better
[13:40] <AndyEsser> I'm well aware of this
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[13:40] <AndyEsser> but I suddenly have a rare evening free to finally try and set stuff up
[13:41] <adamgreig> maplin sell rg213 which is a lot better than rg58
[13:41] <AndyEsser> holy crap
[13:41] <AndyEsser> I had assumed they didn't
[13:41] <AndyEsser> 50m roll for £55.99
[13:42] <AndyEsser> however does mean finding the large format connectors :(
[13:42] <adamgreig> so that will still see you at 2.4dB loss, 57W out for your 100W in, but not too bad
[13:42] <adamgreig> maplin sell the connectors for rg213 as well
[13:42] <adamgreig> be kinda useless if they didn't
[13:42] <AndyEsser> and of course my local one doesn't have them in stock :(
[13:42] <adamgreig> not that that would be a surprise
[13:42] <adamgreig> ah
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[13:43] <AndyEsser> right, 10m of rg58 (i will switch it for rg213 before I mount the antenna up the mast)
[13:43] <AndyEsser> and a bunch of assorted connectors and adapters
[13:43] <AndyEsser> of course all my radios have different connectors on them :(
[13:45] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRF-6 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRF-6
[13:45] <adamgreig> maybe get wf103 ordered in for the mast run
[13:45] <adamgreig> if the mast is staying up, anyway
[13:45] <adamgreig> 213 will be better for applications with lots of movement
[13:45] <AndyEsser> I have 213 running up atm for the X50
[13:46] <adamgreig> ok
[13:46] <adamgreig> what are you planning on doing on 1090..?
[13:46] <AndyEsser> considering either multiple 213 runs, or an antenna relay switch type thing at the top end and a single run back
[13:46] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: ADSB
[13:46] <adamgreig> right, of course
[13:46] <adamgreig> just stick an LNA on the mast
[13:46] <adamgreig> one of uputronics'
[13:46] <adamgreig> will make any coax loss essentially negligable
[13:46] <adamgreig> you can power it down the coax, etc
[13:47] <AndyEsser> Yea, I need to sit down and have a proper think about how to set up the mast, and replace the PVC pipe with something a bit more sturdy
[13:47] <Vaizki> airspy will power it for example
[13:47] <AndyEsser> although I may be moving house early next year
[13:49] <gonzo_> the maplin N types I've seen don't have the captive pin. They rely on the coax inner to set the pin position. And that results in the pin disapearing up inside the connector, bad connaction. Or poking out too far, braking the socket you plug into
[13:49] <adamgreig> gross
[13:49] <gonzo_> breaking
[13:50] <AndyEsser> I had a right faff doing the first N-type stuff for the X50
[13:50] <AndyEsser> having said that, hadn't really done anything like that for about 10 years
[13:50] <gonzo_> they are easy after the first couple
[13:51] <AndyEsser> bought a bunch of adapters and gender benders and stuff for SMA, UHF, BNC and N-types - hopefully stop constantly having the wrong end :(
[13:51] <gonzo_> working out the cutting lengths for the coax is the fun bit
[13:51] <AndyEsser> when I do the proper run - I'll custom build all the cables for each antenna with all the correct connectors etc
[13:52] <gonzo_> I say often, for RX only runs, the sat TV CT100 coax is great, if you can put up with the shitty F type connectors
[13:53] <gonzo_> put the LNA at the antenna and you will be supprised how much loss you can get away with
[13:55] <StuartL> Are LNAs cost effective?
[13:55] <StuartL> Presumably they're frequency specific, too...?
[13:55] <adamgreig> they are freq specific and you can't TX without an additional switch
[13:55] <adamgreig> https://store.uputronics.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=59
[13:55] <adamgreig> but they're relatively inexpensive, £40 sort of thing
[13:55] <StuartL> Ah, ok.
[13:55] <StuartL> Hadn't thought of TX.
[13:56] <adamgreig> you can get the non-freq-specific ones too, but the tight filter is usually an advantage
[13:56] <fsphil> I don't like putting electronics up on the mast. pain if they break
[13:56] <StuartL> I guess you could TX out of a separate antenna, but that would require a transceiver which knew how to cope with that.
[13:56] <gonzo_> there are some wide band ones, but they will amplify and send anything that the antenna picks up. So strong local signals can overload the rx
[13:56] <AndyEsser> fsphil: yea, I typically feel the same - but everyone in here suggests putting LNAs and things up them
[13:56] <AndyEsser> :(
[13:57] <fsphil> is this going on your roof?
[13:57] <gonzo_> though the dynamic range of most of the new MMIC chips, it's difficult to overload them. So it's common to put the filters after the LNA
[13:57] <fsphil> you could put the LNA in the loft, as close to the antenna as possible
[13:57] <fsphil> still accessable then
[13:57] <AndyEsser> it's currently a PVC pipe, mounted to some by 2" x 2" wooden batten running alongside the house
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[13:57] <gonzo_> so in that case, you could put a wideband LNA at the antenna and the filters at the radio end
[13:58] <adamgreig> not necessarily
[13:59] <adamgreig> if you overload the LNA it will distort and you'll screw everything else up
[13:59] <adamgreig> oh
[13:59] <adamgreig> sorry I didn't read your previous line
[13:59] <AndyEsser> I need to hire a very tall ladder over the xmas period and move the PVC Pipe Antenna Mast (TM)
[13:59] <Ian_> You could nail the LNA up at the top of the stick :)
[13:59] <fsphil> I really need to do the same. keep delaying it
[14:00] <fsphil> the x-50 ain't doing much good in my room
[14:00] <AndyEsser> I think an extra 2-3 m elevation will help me catch HABs at a much lower height
[14:00] <gonzo_> antennas will be frequency specific though, so unless you are using a wide band antenna, you may as well have an LNA that is filtered to match
[14:00] <AndyEsser> as atm the roof is blocking it in the direction most HABs arrive from (SE)
[14:01] <AndyEsser> then sometime, replace it with a scaff pole for more elevation
[14:01] <AndyEsser> mount the X50, the 1090MHz, the 434 Yagi and the 144 Yagi :)
[14:01] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
[14:02] <gonzo_> separate TX/RX feeds are common on some amateur systems. Where you have a mast head switched LNA (switched for T/R) it's common to bring the RX out as a separate line. Usually because you are using a TX PA. And there is little point recombining the output from the PA with the RX, only to have to switch it out again up the mast
[14:03] <gonzo_> we do that for our high power conttest kit
[14:04] <gonzo_> and you then have to sequence the relays and enables so that you never do a changeover with rf power passing. All good fun
[14:05] <Vaizki> oh upu has a wideband preamp too
[14:05] <gonzo_> the other benifit of that is, if you lose an LNA up the mast (not uncommon on contests) you can fall back to the straight through coax feed and at least keep going
[14:05] <Vaizki> not sure I want 24dB of gain on the broadcast FM band though :O
[14:06] <gonzo_> some of the LNA devices will gibe 100mW out. Have seen them used as drive PA's
[14:06] <gonzo_> (PGA 103 example)
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[14:10] <gonzo_> my install has RX and tcvrs sharing antennas. I have a dedicated set of 213 runs to the shed for the tcvr. Then a changeover relay to the PA/LNA. The other side of the relay goes to a dedicated RX only feed back to the house (via some more switching and isolation). The changeover relay is powered off the tcvr PSU. So there is no chance of killing the RX
[14:12] <gonzo_> the worst that can happen is, the tcvr TXs into an open circuot. And with at least 3db loss on the coax, I'll see no worse than 6dB return
[14:13] <gonzo_> the antennas are on a scaff poll mast on the shed
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[14:22] <AndyEsser> finally gotten around to filling in the form to register at the GP here...
[14:22] <AndyEsser> one step closer to get my Flight Medical sorted
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[14:40] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[14:56] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS18 after 0316 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS18
[14:56] <fsphil> !whereis UBSEDS18
[14:56] <SpacenearUS> 03fsphil: 03UBSEDS18 is over 03Greene County, NY, USA 10(42.15617,-74.36177) at 0312451 meters
[14:57] <fsphil> showing off now
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[15:22] <Laurenceb> be interesting to look at pressure altitude
[15:23] <Laurenceb> its lower but the atmosphere is colder
[15:23] <Laurenceb> so scale height decreases
[15:24] <Laurenceb> !whereis UBSEDS21
[15:24] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: 03UBSEDS21 was over 03Caspian Sea 10(45.63307,50.25708) at 0314770 meters about 036 hours ago
[15:24] <Laurenceb> niceeeee
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[15:25] <PE2BZ> !flights
[15:25] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03UBSEDS18 434.612.5 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(64a5), 03UBSEDS21 434.610 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(2e88)
[15:25] <fsphil> that's a really good altitude
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[15:33] <Laurenceb> need info page
[15:33] <Laurenceb> I'm guessing its same envelope design as UBSEDS19/20
[15:34] <Laurenceb> looks like no pinholes or it would be down by now
[15:34] <Laurenceb> mad skills :D
[15:35] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[15:35] <fsphil> do you know what material he's using?
[15:38] <richardeoin> hola
[15:38] <fsphil> ah there he is
[15:39] <richardeoin> yup info page coming this evening
[15:39] <AndyEsser> Royal Aeronautical Society registration form asks for date of birth... with a standard free entry textbox
[15:39] <AndyEsser> *sigh*
[15:39] <AndyEsser> grats on the impressive run richardeoin
[15:39] <fsphil> "yesterday"
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[15:40] <richardeoin> but yes same envelope design as 17, 19/20
[15:40] <richardeoin> the diagram is in my conference talk
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[15:40] <fsphil> larger?
[15:41] <richardeoin> 12,13,14,15,16,18 were 1.5m dia; 17, 19/20 and 21 were 1.9m
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[15:45] <richardeoin> AndyEsser: thanks
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[16:03] <cm13g09> mfa298: when can you drop the DS18B20 down to me?
[16:06] <mfa298> 30 mins or so probably
[16:08] <cm13g09> mfa298: OK
[16:08] <cm13g09> I'll still be here
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[16:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03dw.namwenda_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=dw.namwenda_chase
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[17:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF5PGW-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5PGW-11
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[17:23] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> 3vrgb3rv
[17:29] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03WB8ELK-2 after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-2
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[17:39] <PE2BZ> !track ubseds18
[17:39] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Here you go - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ubseds18
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[20:20] <AndyEsser> god I really suck at putting connectors together :(
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[20:39] <richardeoin> just pushing some backlog...
[20:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS21 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS21
[20:46] <AndyEsser> sweet - with no antenna attached - the airspy is getting ADSB signals from some aircraft above manchester and the irish sea
[20:53] <prog> add the habamp and see planes over spain
[20:53] <AndyEsser> heh#
[20:54] <AndyEsser> I dropped the pin of the BNC connector :(
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[21:24] <Vaizki> you were doing it on a table, right...
[21:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Buy him a tray for Xmas ;-)
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[22:00] <fsphil> as long as he doesn't find it embedded in his foot some day
[22:01] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: yes, on a frozen craft/cutting board....
[22:01] <AndyEsser> but still cna't find it
[22:01] <AndyEsser> concerned gf's daughter will find it tomorrow with her foot...
[22:01] <Vaizki> frozen
[22:01] <fsphil> got a good magnet?
[22:01] <AndyEsser> the movie
[22:01] <Vaizki> oh the disney.. :P
[22:02] <Vaizki> or pantyhose and a vacuum cleaner...
[22:02] <AndyEsser> pantyhose over the hole?
[22:03] <daveake> Best not to take that one out of context
[22:03] <AndyEsser> quite
[22:03] <fsphil> that'll be one for the irc stats page
[22:03] <Vaizki> http://ghk.h-cdn.co/assets/15/42/1445027964-pantyhose-vacuum.jpg
[22:03] <daveake> hah
[22:04] <AndyEsser> bit concerned that the element of the antenna doesn't have continuity with the pin of the connector
[22:04] <AndyEsser> unless the wire is coated
[22:04] <daveake> I found out why the 434 lora didn't work on my last flight
[22:05] <AndyEsser> o?
[22:05] <AndyEsser> turn it on>
[22:05] <AndyEsser> ?*
[22:05] <daveake> Dodgy thread on an SMA socket
[22:05] <Vaizki> AndyEsser: what do you mean wire is coated?
[22:05] <daveake> plug screwed onto socket (and no, no RPs), but no connection
[22:06] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: inside the antenna is the core, which is just a 5/8 bit of copper wire
[22:06] <AndyEsser> but suspect the copper wire has the thin transparent coating on it
[22:06] <AndyEsser> know what I mean?
[22:06] <AndyEsser> (there's a word I'm missing...)
[22:06] <Vaizki> yes, a lacquer or..
[22:07] <AndyEsser> yea, like a lacquer
[22:07] <AndyEsser> like if you were making a transformer/coil
[22:07] <Vaizki> hey call in the Finnish guy for the words
[22:07] <Vaizki> :)
[22:07] <daveake> :)
[22:07] <AndyEsser> for a word that clearly doesn't have English origins :P
[22:07] <fsphil> finnish him </mortal kombat>
[22:09] <Vaizki> still didn't understand the problem but maybe I'm just missing a piece of backlog that's relevant :)
[22:10] <Vaizki> and I need to buy a USB current meter from ebay, why are there 12 000 different models.. grrrr
[22:11] <Vaizki> once my wife found out I can measure USB chargers well I've had to measure every one to make sure they're good.. so rather give her one she can use
[22:12] <AndyEsser> could she not just plug it in and see if it chargers her phone, etc?
[22:12] <SA6BSS-Mike> there are some micro sub cables that lacks some internal resitor in the connector making it only charge at 0,5A
[22:12] <SA6BSS-Mike> usb*
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[22:14] <Vaizki> umm I don't think I've seen any cables with resistors.. they are used on the data lines by some usb chargers so that phones will draw more than 500mA
[22:14] <SA6BSS-Mike> lets see if I can find it
[22:15] <Vaizki> anyway, it's easy to find a charger/cable combo in the house that will take 24 hours to charge an ipad .. and the next one might do it in an hour
[22:15] <Vaizki> so I just get a current meter
[22:15] <Vaizki> some cables are so crap you can barely draw an amp through them even if the power supply will give out 2.4
[22:16] <Vaizki> voltage will drop too much
[22:18] <Vaizki> http://goughlui.com/2014/10/01/usb-cable-resistance-why-your-phonetablet-might-be-charging-slow/
[22:18] <Vaizki> nice colored grids here actually
[22:18] <Vaizki> amps, conductor awg and length
[22:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03JS3TD0D22B4100286_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=JS3TD0D22B4100286_chase
[22:23] <SA6BSS-Mike> Vaizki: u right no internal restors but some cables (chargers) looks likte they supply some voltage on the data cables to tell the phone how much current avalible, have a look here http://www.instructables.com/id/Modify-a-cheap-USB-charger-to-feed-an-iPod-iPhone/
[22:24] <Vaizki> yea that's normal.. and a big mess with apple, qualcomm etc everyone has different ones
[22:26] <Vaizki> anyway, need a wife friendly amps-display she can stick between a suspect charger and cable :)
[22:26] <SA6BSS-Mike> ofc they have... no standard, I have a cheap usb amp meter its more then adequte to display amp drawn from the charger, baught it on ebay, i´l posta link....
[22:26] <Vaizki> (an Agilent 6632B works for me)
[22:27] <kc2pit> Let me recommend against the USB Charger Doctor, as sold all over ebay and cheap retailers. I just had one of those decide that D- really wanted to be shorted to VBUS.
[22:27] <SA6BSS-Mike> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Charger-Doctor-voltmeter-ammeter-Amp-Voltage-Tester-Detector-Hot-Sell-/131951421604?var=&hash=item1eb8eae8a4:m:mQhGduOQ9tRqMmwDyyhnAnw
[22:27] <kc2pit> Which created all sorts of fun downstream.
[22:28] <Vaizki> kc2pit: thanks.. that's why I ask here.. :)
[22:28] <Vaizki> so apparently what SA6BSS-Mike just recommended.. :)
[22:29] <kc2pit> I don't even know how it could do that, so maybe it just got a tiny bit of conductive debris inside and it's not the device's fault.
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[22:30] <kc2pit> But I removed it from service after a few microcontrollers went all smoky.
[22:30] <SA6BSS-Mike> have realy just messured what a rtl-sdr and sdrplay draws, and its close to what it should be (within a couple of 10-20mA)
[22:31] <Vaizki> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-In-1-USB-Multifunction-Electronic-Load-Device-Module-Aging-Discharge-Detection-/131945269899?hash=item1eb88d0a8b:g:uA0AAOSwCGVX4dfT
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[22:31] <Vaizki> hehe what a nice bodge!
[22:32] <Vaizki> integrated USB 1-5.5A load and magic resistors / D-line voltages for different mobile devices..
[22:33] <kc2pit> I've also been using http://www.dx.com/p/0-9-lcd-voltmeter-usb-charger-capacity-current-detector-voltage-tester-meter-white-426661
[22:34] <kc2pit> It displays 0 current for anything below about 60mA, but seems accurate above that. The current integral (mAh) readout is quite handy.
[22:34] <Vaizki> any idea what the sampling interval is for the mAh integral?
[22:35] <Vaizki> i.e. will it detect a microcontroller waking up from sleep for a millisecond or two
[22:35] <kc2pit> No idea, but I wouldn't bet on it.
[22:36] <Vaizki> so probably best just for testing with pretty constant current draw.. well it's cheap as chips
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[22:37] <kc2pit> But run your microcontroller from a battery for a while, then recharge the battery through the meter, and you'll probably get a good average.
[22:38] <Vaizki> yea, chemistry is pretty fine grained integration :)
[22:40] <Vaizki> I guess you could use a low ESR caps as an energy buffer.. and calibrate for their leaks etc..
[22:40] <Vaizki> interesting sub project
[22:41] <Vaizki> apparently that method even has a name, delta-E .. :)
[22:42] <Vaizki> but it's time to sleep, thanks for the ebay links
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[23:18] <Alex______> if i use PITS, will extra amateur radio receivers be automatically asigned to my balloon through this system, or do i have to arrange them myself?
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[23:19] <daveake> For any radio tracker, you need to tell people about the flight. So create a flight document, and post a message in the UKHAS google group.
[23:20] <Alex______> so if i fill in those forms and message the group
[23:20] <Alex______> thanks
[23:20] <Alex______> is there an automatic system to get permanent amateur receivers involved?
[23:20] <daveake> no, it's not automatic
[23:20] <Alex______> or could it range from 0 to many helpers depending on area/time etc?
[23:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Depends more on day , time and how interesting the flight is, come talk in here and more will appear!
[23:21] <daveake> if you tell people (as above) and you're in an area with coverage (UK, most of western Europe) then you should be OK
[23:22] <Alex______> do i need to link them in manually giving them direct information
[23:22] <Alex______> or will telling name and time and area be sufficient?
[23:22] <daveake> I told you. Create the flight doc. That gives frequencies, location etc
[23:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> No the flight doc should have all the critical info
[23:22] <Alex______> oh yeahsorry
[23:22] <daveake> Post a message in the group
[23:22] <daveake> Come in here and tell people
[23:23] <daveake> People who do this get many more listeners than those who just launch without saying anything
[23:24] <Alex______> if somehow the payload lands far away (say the chasing car didnt chase very well), would this mean that it could be lost as the radios assigned in the area are no longer in the landing area?
[23:24] <Alex______> or would you recommend using a cheap phone as a backup for this scenario?
[23:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Where in the world are you?
[23:24] <Alex______> england
[23:25] <daveake> The listener network will help you, but it's up to you to track at launch and landing
[23:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Oh no problem then
[23:25] <daveake> If you can get close as it lands, you'll get a better last position
[23:26] <Alex______> im just slightly concerned because the budget is quite low - probably an SDR and maybe a cheapish radio receiver
[23:26] <daveake> That said, I've often not bothered to chase till after landing. That can mean having a last position at 2km or so altitude, but that's still enough
[23:26] <Alex______> ah
[23:26] <Alex______> ive read somewhere, is it illegal to use a mobile phone as a backup for the GPS (only really used for landing position)
[23:27] <Alex______> something about using certain radio frequencies interfering with military stuff when above a certain altitude
[23:27] <daveake> it won't work above approx 2km anyway
[23:27] <Alex______> do you usually have one as a backup, or do you rely purely on your PITS system?
[23:27] <daveake> Generally GSM/GPS backups seem to work about half the time. Personally I think they just add weight to little benefit.
[23:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> No thing illegal, but the network will cut you off above a few Km as you heard by two many base stations
[23:28] <daveake> So I don't bother using them, even for an expensive payload
[23:28] <Alex______> ive heard somewhere that if proprietary devices e.g. SPOT land with the antenna facing the ground, they will be unable to send the GPS location, is this the same with the PITS?
[23:29] <daveake> The SPOT issue is the satellite antenna rather than the GPS one
[23:29] <daveake> So it can't contact the satellites
[23:29] <Alex______> oh, as in because the spot sends the data to the satellites to then be relied down, whereas PITS directly radios down
[23:30] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> If you can afford a SPOT why go cheap on the UHF radio!
[23:30] <daveake> Yeah even with the radio aerial flattened it'll still have enough range
[23:30] <Alex______> no, theres almost no way we can afford a spot, we're definately trying to get more funding though for the radio
[23:30] <daveake> If PITS does lose GPS on landing it'll just send the last position it had anyway, so no problem there
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[23:31] <Alex______> but we are having preliminary launches before the more expensive payload
[23:31] <daveake> A cheap SDR + a HABAmp should work well
[23:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> But try out DF the tracker at ground level during texting
[23:31] <Alex______> ah yes, i am having trouble finding what a HAB amp is (assuming its connected to the PITS to amplify signal)
[23:31] <daveake> testing
[23:31] <daveake> No
[23:32] <daveake> PITS Tx power is already the max allowed legally
[23:32] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Don't leave it to the day
[23:32] <Alex______> we wont
[23:32] <Alex______> we have months
[23:32] <daveake> HABAmp goes between receiving aerial and radio
[23:33] <Alex______> ah
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[23:33] <Alex______> how much is it?
[23:33] <Alex______> or do you have a link to more info
[23:34] <daveake> https://store.uputronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=53
[23:34] <Alex______> thanks
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[23:34] <daveake> It's a good option as the next step up (an Airspy) is quite a bit more expensive
[23:35] <Alex______> how bad an idea would it be to use sdrs - one at a location and one in the chasing car (say the location one uses a HAB amp)
[23:35] <Alex______> i.e how essentially are these quite pricey radio receivers
[23:35] <Alex______> essential*
[23:36] <daveake> As I said earlier, the 2 places that you need to be tracking are at launch (so you know it's working before you let go) and at landing (so you get the best last position in the air, and can track it on the ground)
[23:36] <Alex______> but im asking if just SDRs are good enough?
[23:36] <daveake> If you can do both of those with the 1 setup in the chase car then that's just fine
[23:36] <Alex______> oh
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[23:36] <daveake> With HABAmp yes
[23:37] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Depends a bit on the physical setup in the car, keep things neat in a box is better
[23:37] <Alex______> ah thats good
[23:37] <daveake> During flight, us lot can track for you so you can relax a bit, and just try to be in a good position for the landing
[23:37] <Alex______> yeah thats what i hoped with this system
[23:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Do you know where you would launch from yet?
[23:38] <Alex______> err we have thought
[23:38] <Alex______> it may sound stupid to you guys, but we're not too far from the most inland place in england
[23:38] <Alex______> so there
[23:39] <Alex______> eventhough the flight predictions look generally good from most places
[23:39] <Alex______> have you guys had many land in the ocean?
[23:39] <SpeedEvil> EArly on, unexpected ocean landings were common.
[23:39] <Alex______> were these from launches near the ocean though?
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> As time has gone on, if certain precautions are taken, you can avoid the ocean generally
[23:40] <Alex______> or just from unexpected winds
[23:40] <daveake> Not that no
[23:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> With the predictor less likely unless you chance it!
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> you may not be able to launch on the day or days of your choice though
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[23:40] <Alex______> how much rescheduling with the CAA is it if you decide to leave it a couple of days
[23:40] <daveake> The predictor is reliable; what's sometimes less reliable is the ability of people to fill balloons correctly
[23:41] <Alex______> or do you give them a likely window in the inital application a month before
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[23:41] <daveake> My recommendation is wait till you're ready, choose a date, apply for that date, then check the predictions from 6 days out
[23:42] <daveake> At T-3 days, either confirm or delay with the CAA
[23:42] Action: kc2pit has some experience with incorrectly filled balloons.
[23:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Inland location might be near an airport which might restrict times or directions
[23:42] <Alex______> will delays ahve to be a month?
[23:42] <daveake> ^
[23:42] <Alex______> ah
[23:42] <daveake> no you can delay by days if you want
[23:42] <daveake> Middle of the country ... near Brum ?
[23:42] <Alex______> good
[23:42] <Alex______> are the launches alot worse in winter from your experienc?
[23:42] <Alex______> yea maybe
[23:43] <Alex______> birmingham isnt too far (we're located in manchester)
[23:43] <daveake> You'll need to be careful then - BHX, EMA
[23:43] <daveake> Manchester is worse
[23:43] <daveake> too many airports
[23:43] <Alex______> yes definately
[23:44] <Alex______> what sort of lifetime do you usually get with the PITS systems
[23:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Try to launch as far from controlled airspace as possible
[23:44] <daveake> If you are too close to one, then you'll have to either find somewhere else to launch, or launch outside airport hours (e.g. 5 am)
[23:44] <Alex______> i.e. after how long will it stop transmitting so you've lost it
[23:44] <Alex______> and thanks we will
[23:45] <daveake> PITS is 17 hours or so
[23:45] <Alex______> wow thats loads
[23:45] <daveake> If you can't find the position in that time you're not doing it right
[23:45] <Alex______> yeah ahaha
[23:46] <Alex______> just to double check
[23:46] <Alex______> when you connet the batteries to the PITS hat, you dont need to connect the micro USb to the main pi
[23:46] <daveake> correct
[23:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/Google_Earth_Tools/index.php?ind=0
[23:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> For a GE view of controlled air spave
[23:47] <Alex______> thanks
[23:48] <Alex______> but if you give a location and the CAA OK it, you wont be liable if it somehow drifts in right?
[23:48] <Alex______> if theyve OKed it
[23:48] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> More details on the wiki on using GE
[23:48] <daveake> You need to make sure the flight path is safe. So no landing near airports, in cities etc
[23:48] <Alex______> ah
[23:49] <Alex______> suburbs ok?
[23:49] <daveake> and that includes allowing for it not following the flight path exactly - e.g. balloon wants to burst early; you don't put enough gas in
[23:49] <daveake> No keep it well away from large populations
[23:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Suburbs not nice if lands on roofs
[23:49] <Alex______> good point
[23:49] <daveake> You want it to land in a field, ideally
[23:50] <Alex______> do you guys ever used directional antennas near landing to find them better?
[23:50] <Vaizki> Safest to land in the sea or north pole
[23:50] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> :)
[23:50] <daveake> I can recommend the channel :p
[23:51] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Yes small 3 or 4 element Yagi helps
[23:51] <Alex______> are they expensive?
[23:51] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Hence the DF direction finding comment earlier
[23:52] <Alex______> ahaha what does DF mean?
[23:52] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> No quite cheap make it diy if you want
[23:52] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Direction. Finding
[23:52] <Alex______> thanks
[23:53] <Alex______> do you guys use google earth in the chaser car because you can cache 2gb of maps?
[23:53] <Alex______> im asking because habhub is obviously an online website, so more difficult to use with a laptop that needs wifi
[23:53] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> There are chase Apps for phones
[23:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> With cached maps
[23:54] <Alex______> ok
[23:55] <daveake> Being online in the car helps a lot, so set up tethering on a phone, or use a mobile hotspot. However you can't guarantee it will work when you need it, so the offline mapping is useful.
[23:56] <Alex______> is it google earth that people in videos use to get that line/graph thing above the map (out of interest)
[23:57] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Click the telemetry button at the bottom of the tracker screen is one easy metod
[23:57] <Alex______> what sort of projects do you guys usually do
[23:57] <Alex______> mainly just imaging oor
[23:57] <Alex______> or
[23:57] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> GE in-car might be heavy going
[23:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Images are always good, but depends on your interests
[23:59] <Alex______> we're trying to do some preliminary scientific readings
[23:59] <Alex______> ambitious but we have alot of time
[23:59] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Are you planning g several flights?
[23:59] <Alex______> yes
[00:00] --- Wed Dec 14 2016