highaltitude.log.20161126

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[00:16] <evilroots> https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/5ew1ds/texas_balloon_launch_tomorrow/
[00:24] <Bencls> ^^ Shame we can't do that in the UK :(
[00:26] <Bencls> We cannot operate a beacon in the air let alone a repeater...
[00:30] <mfa298> many would suggest our rtty/lora solutions are much better than aprs
[00:30] <mfa298> and we've had lora balloons repeating data
[00:35] <Bencls> They have a UHF/VHF cross band repeater.
[00:35] <Ian_> And probably lead acid batteries to power it ;-)
[00:36] <mfa298> we could probably do a 434/868 ism repeater although that probably works best with lora
[00:37] <Ian_> Oh and on APRS they bleat a lot if you start to use the resources too much . . .
[00:37] <Bencls> LoRa and rtty IMS solutions are cheaper and, arguably, more elegant (and don't require lead acid batteries) but... the power
[00:38] <Ian_> You don't need a lot of power, just finesse!
[00:38] <Ian_> The UKHAS way
[00:38] <mfa298> power is overated, i think the rtty record is something like 800km
[00:39] <Bencls> Also, who has a 2 way 434/868 IMS radio...
[00:39] <Ian_> IMS?
[00:39] <mfa298> you only need lots of power if you have a carp setup or your trying to shout over other people shouting
[00:40] <Bencls> (sorry ISM)
[00:40] <Ian_> Ahhh, ISM !
[00:40] <Ian_> Non-shufflable TLA
[00:40] <mfa298> probably quite a few of us have a pi with two lora moduls (434 + 868)
[00:41] <Bencls> But all of us probably own a uhf/vhf radio
[00:42] <Ian_> In some ways the restrictions have been beneficial, in that it has forced innovation. The UKHAS type of distributed listener network stretches well into the East of Poland in large numbers.
[00:43] <Ian_> LoRa is an easy financial in where there is no suitable existing AR equipment to hand.
[00:44] <mfa298> unless you've got a radio with dual receive capability you probaly can't easily use it to listen on one band and transmit on another. you'll have to manually change band as well as hit the ptt.
[00:45] <Bencls> (I would say 'I'm sure an SDR would do it' but that would invalidate my point as it can also do 434/868)
[00:45] <Ian_> A good mix is to be recommended though, so as to keep the inovation happening. There are quite a few very clever people that are enabling the whole show which allows the rest of us to benefit from their cleverness and improve our own lot at the same time. It's all about learning
[00:46] <mfa298> I'd also bet that US balloon can't easily send back live pictures, something we regularly have baloons doing here
[00:47] <Ian_> Air to Ground is relatively simple. Once you start trying to receive on a balloon, then you realise just how much crud there is in the radio spectrum of interest. It all gets rather more difficult quite quickly.
[00:47] <Laurenceb_> its not _that_ bad
[00:47] <Laurenceb_> it seems you lose maybe 20dB in most cases
[00:49] <Bencls> mfa298: couldn't they just send up some ATV Fast scan tv transmitter and get a live video feed back to ground though?
[00:50] <Ian_> First the balloon has to be able to receive the TV signal and ISM rules make that difficult.
[00:50] <Bencls> http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/QST_Sep_2000_p41-44.pdf
[00:51] <Ian_> Good point - operative words tv FROM a plane or rocket . . .
[00:51] <Laurenceb_> erm
[00:51] <Laurenceb_> ok that sounds fairly hard
[00:52] <Laurenceb_> this is pretty cool
[00:52] <Laurenceb_> https://befinitiv.wordpress.com/wifibroadcast-analog-like-transmission-of-live-video-data/
[00:52] <Bencls> I don't know what the licence conditions are in America, can they do anything they like in the air at 1KW erp?
[00:53] <Ian_> I think that they may be limited to 5W airborne but that is just a guess.
[00:53] <Ian_> Look FPV, again this is video FROM an airborne platform.
[00:54] <mfa298> they might be able to do the 1kw erp if they can lift enough batteries, but that probably gets expensive quickly
[00:54] <Ian_> If the airborne platform is trying to receive a small signal, then it's a signal with a noisy background, compared to a ground station receiving a signal from a balloon up in the clear with no interference source around it
[00:55] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[00:55] <Bencls> Just send up a hydrogen fuel cell
[00:55] <Bencls> (provides lift and power)
[00:56] <Ian_> The airborne receiver would have to be a lot smarter/probably larger than you might imagine. Are you planning on operating in the US, do you have a US or UK AR licence?
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[00:58] <Bencls> For what?
[00:59] <Ian_> What for? for what you know or wish to achieve!
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[00:59] <Ian_> It's all academic if you haven't got or intend to get a licence soon.
[01:00] <Bencls> Oh sorry
[01:00] <Bencls> I have a full UK licence
[01:00] <Bencls> (and no intentions of moving to the US)
[01:01] <Ian_> UKHAS works ISM rules. APRS works AR Licence where allowed. Where you live determines what you are allowed to do. Make the best of it.
[01:02] <Bencls> As such operating an ATV station from a balloon is probably illegal
[01:02] <Ian_> So, do you listen to telemetry from any of the flights and if so using DL_FLDIGI or LoRA.
[01:03] <Bencls> dlfldigi, I am yet to buy a lora module
[01:03] <Ian_> If you can get a useful ATV signal to operate efectively at 10mW then it's probably going to be legal under ISM rules.
[01:04] <Ian_> OFCOM IR2030 is the document you will need to read to work it out for yourself.
[01:05] <Ian_> A Raspberry Pi3 and LoRA board from Uputronics, maybe even a Pi Zero will get you up and running. You'll probably end up paying more for N-type or SO239 to SMA connectors.
[01:06] <Ian_> Of course Uputronics also do a filtered 434MHz antenna pre-amp
[01:07] <Ian_> I wholeheartedly recommend buying from him as he has lots of Xmas pressies to buy for his little angel.
[01:07] <Ian_> :)
[01:08] <Bencls> I'll look into it and report back here if anything good comes of it. gtg for now.
[01:09] <Ian_> He sells good gear too. It's better to ask questions to help you understand what you really want to know, as throwing the US AR airborne transmission argument about is apt to generate a defensive conversation.
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[03:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03krishna_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=krishna_chase
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[04:44] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
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[08:03] <PE2BZ> Good morning all !
[08:03] <PE2BZ> !flights
[08:03] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03SP5YAM-1 437.599 MHz RTTY 50/550 8N1 10(1979), 03SP5YAM-2 437.649 MHz RTTY 50/550 8N1 10(3f7b), 03PICO-28 144.251 ctstia32/1000 10(76fc), 03UBSEDS18 434.612.5 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(64a5)
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[10:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
[10:15] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5YAM-1 after 034 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5YAM-1
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[11:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03M10WX-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M10WX-11
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[11:29] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5YAM-2 after 035 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5YAM-2
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[12:07] <BubUK> bonnet de douche
[12:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> Obviously suite you https://www.google.com/search?q=bonnet+de+douche&num=100&newwindow=1&safe=off&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj43_KzscbQAhWILMAKHUmLBqkQsAQIOQ&biw=1453&bih=1128&dpr=0.9
[12:11] <BubUK> yes, quite
[12:12] <BubUK> http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/onlyfools/lingo/euro.shtml
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[12:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP5YAM-3 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5YAM-3
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[13:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Decatur _chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Decatur%20_chase
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[14:43] <PE0SAT> !flights
[14:43] <SpacenearUS> 03PE0SAT: Current flights: 03SP5YAM-1 437.599 MHz RTTY 50/550 8N1 10(1979), 03SP5YAM-2 437.649 MHz RTTY 50/550 8N1 10(3f7b), 03PICO-28 144.251 ctstia32/1000 10(76fc), 03UBSEDS18 434.612.5 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(64a5)
[15:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03XE1BRX-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=XE1BRX-11
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[16:33] <tkerby> Not a balloon but has anyone ever attached a tracker to a Chinese lantern?
[16:34] <Laurenceb_> I've stuck 5.4Ghz FPV on one
[16:34] <Laurenceb_> but tbh I wouldnt launch them, too irresponsible
[16:37] <tkerby> I wouldn't launch them either but was wondering how far they travel
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[16:53] <SpeedEvil> you should carefully consider what your payload is made from
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> a not insignificant number of cows and other animals die from ingesting wires and stuff from chinese lanterns
[16:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WA5BU-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WA5BU-11
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[17:41] <ZS5LT_> Hi, anyone has ideas for public outreach? our local Radio Club has a stand at a local mall to showcase amateur radio. HAB is one of the features. We will have a static demo (balloon, parachute and payload), also a live payload and decode with DL-FLdigi. I am concerned that some of this may be above the heads of the general public. Are there ideas for simpler displays?
[17:41] <SpeedEvil> video from balloons?
[17:42] <ZS5LT_> Got video, 40" screen with live video and a link to tracker.habhub.
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[18:15] <Laurenceb_> not what is usually meant by optical mouse http://rogers.matse.illinois.edu/files/2015/nbtoptogen.pdf
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[18:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0317 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[19:02] <SpeedEvil> neat
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[19:11] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N4XWC-1 after 037 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
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[19:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WB8ELK-1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-1
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[20:13] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KJ4TDM-1 after 037 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ4TDM-1
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[21:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ROTIO - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ROTIO
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[00:00] --- Sun Nov 27 2016