highaltitude.log.20161119

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[00:40] <marius> Hi. First off a huge thanks for the amazing software provided for HAB. It is just amazing.
[00:40] <marius> I submitted my first flight document with payload ZL1AB for a launch next week. We have a whole primary school buzzing with excitement after months of preparation.
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[00:52] <craag> marius: Have you got the flight doc id approved in #habhub?
[00:52] <craag> also hi :) awesome to hear you're all excited!
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[01:34] <marius> yes flight doc id 93e3f007f2bd02bb6829fbe242c8b38f name: forrest hill primary school
[01:38] <craag> marius: You've submitted the flight doc, and it all looks to be in order, however you do need to ask an admin in #habhub to approve it before it'll turn up in the habhub calendar and dlfldigi autoconfigure
[01:39] <craag> To do this, join #habhub, paste the id you just typed, check the bot's readout looks correct, and then ask for an admin to give the approval command
[01:40] <craag> The approval locks the payload id to be used for the flight, so make sure it's all ready and correct
[01:40] <craag> or never mind - I pasted the doc id over there to check it, and an admin approved it for you :)
[01:41] <craag> sooo you're all set! good luck!
[01:41] Action: craag -> bed
[01:41] <marius> Awesome thanks.
[01:42] <craag> you can check it by joining the channel anyway and typing the id, the bot's output will then tell you it's now approved :)
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[01:56] <marius> Finger crossed for good weather and a right wind direction (new zealand is very narrow). We even managed to get approval from the air traffic control towers to launch the balloon in a military control zone, so that the kids can see their space teddy go up in the sky. https://ssdv.habhub.org/ZL1AB
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[04:10] <burnedfingers> hello highaltitude!
[04:10] <burnedfingers> is anyone in here making their own envelopes?
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[07:24] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB-rs41 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB-rs41
[07:47] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 0316 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
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[07:48] <WB8ELK> Can someone add the HYSPLIT button to my balloon WB8ELK-2 on the Habhub tracker website?
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[07:56] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
[08:06] <SA6BSS-Mike> sp9uob is up
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[08:19] <Reb-SM0ULC> SA6BSS-Mike: morrn!
[08:20] <Reb-SM0ULC> short flight for sp9
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[08:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes indeed, hmm
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[09:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
[09:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 030788672068_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=0788672068_chase
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[10:36] <PE2BZ> !track ubseds18
[10:36] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Here you go - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ubseds18
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[12:10] <G4FUI_phablet> Test
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[12:15] <fsphil> A+++
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[12:46] <RocketBoy> Hi gents - who is managing the Habitat burst calculator code these days - I have found a discrepancy
[12:47] <RocketBoy> giving results that are quite a way out
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[12:47] <SpeedEvil> In what aspect?
[12:48] <RocketBoy> The results for Hwoyee balloons are low (totex OK)
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> The results are as I understand it about right if you assume the burst diameters from the manufacturers are OK
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> As I understand it, Hwoyee balloons burst at over their specced diameter
[12:49] <daveake> Yep
[12:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03WB8ELK-2 after 0318 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-2
[12:50] <RocketBoy> for example the habitat burst calcuularors - gives 26Km for HY500 with 500g payload at 5m/sec
[12:51] <RocketBoy> whereas my own calculator gives almost 30Km for the same combination
[12:51] <RocketBoy> which is realistic IMO
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> what is your calculator based on?
[12:51] <RocketBoy> totex balloons are identical to my own claculator
[12:52] <RocketBoy> my and the habiat calculator are based on my maths
[12:52] <RocketBoy> see the ahbitat credits
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> ah
[12:52] <RocketBoy> whaich is why im querying it
[12:53] <RocketBoy> totex results are identical
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> sorry - I'm not awake.
[12:53] <RocketBoy> i suspect the data has been l;oaded wrong
[12:53] <SpeedEvil> I should have recognised
[12:54] <RocketBoy> I think they modded it recently (a year ago?)
[12:54] <RocketBoy> to improve the algorithem
[12:55] <RocketBoy> (the way the calculations converge on a result)
[12:55] <RocketBoy> so it could be that - or a data screw up
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> Has anyone measured delta-p just before burst?
[12:55] <RocketBoy> but 25Km for 500g on a HY-500 at 5m/sec isnt realistoc
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[12:57] <jakeio> !whereis UBSEDS18
[12:57] <SpacenearUS> 03jakeio: 03UBSEDS18 was over 03Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada 10(48.80861,-123.79715) at 0312129 meters about 033 days ago
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[13:07] <craag> https://github.com/ukhas/cusf-burst-calc
[13:08] <craag> data used is from line: https://github.com/ukhas/cusf-burst-calc/blob/master/js/calc.js#L145
[13:13] <RocketBoy> thanks - Ill check
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[13:37] <RocketBoy> craag: thanks for that - yeah the Hwoyee data in that is qute out (low in most instances) from current manufacturer data
[13:37] <RocketBoy> The current Hwoyee data itself seems an underestimate of typical burst altitude.
[13:38] <RocketBoy> Ill take it up with the github owner
[13:54] Nick change: fl__0 -> fl_0
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[14:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N8VRN - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N8VRN
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[14:40] <jakeio> Anyone able to help me out with the LoRa radio frequency registers?
[14:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N8vrn_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N8vrn_chase
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[15:33] <PE2BZ> Good afternoon. Would anyone know a Windows webbrowser with the possibility to choose the audio output device instead of using Windows default device ?
[15:46] <Reb-SM0ULC> nope
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[15:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ5AM-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ5AM-11
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[16:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KA7NSR-7 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KA7NSR-7
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[16:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KA7NSR-6 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KA7NSR-6
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[16:15] <SA6BSS-Mike> PE2BZ: this might work, I have not tested it https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/audiopick/gfhcppdamigjkficnjnhmnljljhagaha?hl=sv
[16:29] <jakeio> I've got a really odd issue with my NTX2B. It's... wobbling.
[16:29] <jakeio> I'm just getting a screen recorder up so I can show you what I mean...
[16:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KA7NSR-8 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KA7NSR-8
[16:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KA7NSR-9 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KA7NSR-9
[16:35] <jakeio> !whereis UBSEDS18
[16:35] <SpacenearUS> 03jakeio: 03UBSEDS18 was over 03Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada 10(48.80861,-123.79715) at 0312129 meters about 033 days ago
[16:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9VVJ-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9VVJ-11
[16:41] <jakeio> If anyone can explain this, I'd be grateful. I've checked with my DMM the voltage applied to the Vcc and TXD pins is constant (3.3v and 4.9v). https://youtu.be/G2MYd__dBCs
[16:41] <jakeio> Wait, 3.3v and 4.9v are wrong, the Vcc has 4.9v, the TXD has about 0.2, regardless, they are constant and within spec.
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[16:44] <mfa298> jakeio: where's the power and data coming from for the ntx2b ?
[16:44] <jakeio> Raspi.
[16:45] <mfa298> a diagram/sketch of how it's wired up might be useful as well.
[16:46] <mfa298> also maybe try running the ntx2 with the txd pin disconnected (or connect direct to ground) and see how stable the signal is then
[16:46] <jakeio> Tried that, same issue.
[16:46] <jakeio> However, it appears to have stopped now, rather oddly.
[16:46] <jakeio> Just trying to find you a diagram...
[16:47] <jakeio> Well, it's a circuit that I have flown twice without any changes being made.
[16:47] <jakeio> This has not happened before.
[16:47] <jakeio> And it has definitely stopped...
[16:47] <mfa298> if you get a stable carrier with the txd pin disconnected then that would help show the power is good
[16:48] <jakeio> When I tried that I didn't get a stable carrier, I had the same issue.
[16:48] <mfa298> I'm wondering if you've got extra (console/logging) data on the serial port.
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[16:51] <jakeio> Well, it appears the good old "turn it off and on again" has indeed done the trick. Sorry to waste your time! I did check and getty is definitely disabled on the serial port, so it shouldn't be that.
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[17:17] <mfa298> there may also be kernel logging (controlled by /boot/cmdline I think)
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[17:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG4TTI-1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG4TTI-1
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[18:31] <PE2BZ> SA6BSS-Mike thanks for the URL. Indeed for HTML5 audio it works ! My websdr does not run HTML5, but a lot of web sdr┬┤s does, so it works for me at this moment !
[18:31] <SA6BSS-Mike> good to hear :)
[18:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BSS3 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS3
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[18:46] <jcoxon> http://hackaday.com/2016/11/19/new-record-for-balloon-duration-aloft/
[18:46] <jcoxon> discuss
[18:50] <SA6BSS-Mike> they claim 79hours reccord for a latex balloon
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[18:50] <richardeoin> mmm, think it wins longest duration for a latex envelope
[18:50] <richardeoin> people in the comments are confused
[18:51] <jcoxon> they are indeed
[18:51] <richardeoin> wouldn't want the small technical difference between latex and not latex get in the way of a good bit of publicity though
[18:52] <mfa298> How long did the cnsp balloon that landed in Africa take to cross the atlantic.
[18:52] <richardeoin> slightly less time than SS-41
[18:57] <richardeoin> ssi have a slightly different technique to cnsp though
[18:58] <richardeoin> I think cnsp was what we'd call a latex float, at ~30km
[18:58] <richardeoin> while ssi are using ballast to hang around at 14km or so
[18:59] <richardeoin> under the auspices of reducing uv degradation on the latex
[19:04] <mfa298> 57 hours for cnsp-11 which I think is the one I was thinking of http://www.cnsp-inc.com/cnsp-11/
[19:05] <mfa298> I thought cnsp had done one with a 2nd ballast balloon although I can't find that quickly
[19:05] <mfa298> may have just been something that got talked about
[19:10] <Laurenceb_> what duration have they achieved?
[19:11] <SA6BSS-Mike> 79h
[19:11] <mfa298> 79 hours for the SSI-41 balloon
[19:11] <Laurenceb_> wow
[19:12] <Laurenceb_> v impressive for latex envelope
[19:13] <mfa298> the hackaday article (and possibly their source) is bad journalism. It just says it's a new record for duration.
[19:13] <mfa298> without specifying it's for Latex
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[19:15] <richardeoin> like, it is hackaday
[19:15] <jcoxon> i guess the best time to launch would be on the shortest day and as far north as possible
[19:16] <jcoxon> minimal solar exposure
[19:17] <SA6BSS-Mike> true
[19:17] <mfa298> I wonder if they've seen the UBSEDS or Leo's balloons, Apparently super pressure costs thousands to millions of dollars per flight (reading the ssi write up)
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[19:19] <jcoxon> mfa298, hehe
[19:20] <mfa298> what they have managed is an american pico (1kg) for long duration at 12km.
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[19:24] <richardeoin> I can't see any way of doing astrophotography in less than 200 - 400 grams
[19:24] <aadamson> umm... something seriously wrong with this article (record claim) http://hackaday.com/2016/11/19/new-record-for-balloon-duration-aloft/
[19:24] <richardeoin> so you could use it for that
[19:24] <aadamson> hehe... i'm late :)
[19:25] <aadamson> if they would just correct it to say latex, it *might* be true.
[19:25] <richardeoin> jcoxon pipped you to it
[19:25] <nick_> We live in a post-truth society :(
[19:26] <richardeoin> the conclusion is that it's a record for latex
[19:26] <richardeoin> which the original stanford news item, from motnhs ago, does say in the text
[19:27] <aadamson> yes, I went to their site... I mean Ron has 141 days, you and I have one up for around 90 and I have a second for 60... so it can't be all types :)
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[19:29] <richardeoin> although we can all now claim that we've beaten Stanford's record
[19:29] <richardeoin> which is a nice soundbite
[19:29] <aadamson> ^^ hehe
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> richardeoin: depends what you mean about by astrophotography
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> Pictures of stars is easy
[19:32] <SpeedEvil> edmoore tried a stable platform for astro stuff
[19:32] <richardeoin> mmm, I'm talking less than 200-400 grams though
[19:33] <richardeoin> at float, at night when T = -55┬║C
[19:33] <SpeedEvil> The camera bit is trivial
[19:33] <SpeedEvil> nearly
[19:34] <richardeoin> a pinhole / Pi Camera might not cut it?
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> http://i.imgur.com/O84IBCj.jpg - for example - this was a (I think) 30s exposure
[19:34] <richardeoin> I was thinking that the minimum viable astro camera was a stripped down point+shoot
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> with
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> http://www.365astronomy.com/ZWO-ASI120MC-Colour-1-3-CMOS-USB2.0-Camera-with-Autoguider-Port.html
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> using http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=MT9M034 as a sensor
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> and the stock lens
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> Pull off the aluminium housing and I'd suspect it's ~40g
[19:37] <richardeoin> sure, but with current battery tech and stabilisation and you're probably > 200g already
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> possibly, yes
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> Something I keep meaning to look at but have stalled on
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> Though I've been more interested in looking at it for gimballed LASER comms
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[19:39] <richardeoin> oh interesting
[19:39] <richardeoin> with that camera?
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[19:39] <richardeoin> what makes it good fot laser comms?
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> No, not with the camera
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> stabilisation
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[19:40] <SpeedEvil> Pointing the LASER gets you rather better rates :)
[19:41] <richardeoin> haha yes
[19:42] <richardeoin> floating should make stabilisatation much easier, because airspeed = 0
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[19:48] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KJ4TDM-1 after 037 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ4TDM-1
[19:48] <SpeedEvil> richardeoin: yes.
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[19:49] <SpeedEvil> richardeoin: though I haven't seen any (or remembered if I have) swing info
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[19:58] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N4XWC-1 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
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[20:03] <Laurenceb_> uh oh
[20:03] <Laurenceb_> http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/10.2514/1.B36120
[20:11] <Vaizki> 1.2mN/kW? mmm.. that's very squarely in the undeniable result range .. :O
[20:12] <Vaizki> summary: "oh dear"
[20:14] <richardeoin> SpeedEvil: would a floater with accel and gyro be of any use for collecting that info?
[20:14] <richardeoin> what time resolution would you need?
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[20:18] <SpeedEvil> richardeoin: yes - better than 1s - enough to fully capture the sway of the balloon
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[20:19] <SpeedEvil> 10hz would probably be plenty - though wouldn't even have to be most of the time - just random samples of a few seconds here and there
[20:21] <richardeoin> okay, I might end up launching something capable of that at some point
[20:22] <richardeoin> with a AXDL345 and FXAS21002
[20:22] <richardeoin> are both accel and gyro mesurements useful? Or just gyro?
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> Vaizki: undeniable if we believe their measurements
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> richardeoin: both somewhat - but probably gyro more
[20:23] <Vaizki> indeed, so as the results are not indecisive then the methodology will be questioned
[20:23] <richardeoin> cool, will let you know if its close to getting launched
[20:23] <Vaizki> which is the "oh dear" part of it
[20:25] <Vaizki> but I fear it's an early night in for myself, still a bit off my game due to the 16 hour trip back from cape town :O
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> I'm not remotely believing it until another team manages to replicate to within the margin of error.
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[21:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WB8ELK-1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-1
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[21:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP5YAM-1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5YAM-1
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[21:29] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB-rs41 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB-rs41
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[21:31] <SP9UOB-Tom> hi, please approve 976b7955cc995a128597eef7b28a0a60
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[21:49] <Reb-SM0ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: evevning
[21:49] <Reb-SM0ULC> short flight today
[21:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM0ULC: heavy rain :-(
[21:55] <aadamson> fyi, GOES launch on nasa tv in 45 mins
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[22:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP5YAM-2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5YAM-2
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[00:00] --- Sun Nov 20 2016