highaltitude.log.20161117

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[06:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[07:42] <PE2BZ> !flights
[07:42] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03UBSEDS18 434.612.5 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(64a5)
[07:42] <PE2BZ> !track ubseds18
[07:42] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Here you go - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ubseds18
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[08:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HORUSLORA after 034 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HORUSLORA
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[09:10] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[10:04] <AndyEsser> morning all
[10:07] <gonzo_> morning
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[10:09] <AndyEsser> https://www.glyndwr.ac.uk/en/AboutGlyndwrUniversity/Newsandmediacentre/Newsarchive/PressReleases2016/opticgrant/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=SocialSignIn&utm_source=Twitter
[10:09] <AndyEsser> gah
[10:09] <AndyEsser> I'd just ruled out St Asaph
[10:17] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VE2WMG-11 after 0318 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE2WMG-11
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[10:53] <M0RJX> Upu my new profile for Locktite LF is giving me 99.9% reflow for 217C paste :-)
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[10:59] <beau_> hello
[11:01] <M0RJX> hi
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[11:02] <jaaaaay> has anyone ever wondered what it would be like to have sex in space?
[11:02] <beau_> yeah our club talked about that
[11:02] <beau_> it'd be gross in the long run
[11:03] <jaaaaay> wtf how
[11:03] <jaaaaay> it would be amazing
[11:03] <beau_> uh
[11:03] <jaaaaay> we could spin around in circles while we fuck the girl
[11:03] <beau_> imagine bodily fluids without gravity
[11:03] <jaaaaay> ok?
[11:03] <jaaaaay> she swallows?
[11:03] <jaaaaay> like any girl worth her salt?
[11:03] <beau_> then having to live in that for the next x months
[11:03] <jaaaaay> she's our slave?
[11:03] <jaaaaay> rp
[11:04] <jaaaaay> she cant leave
[11:04] <jaaaaay> its fine
[11:04] <beau_> ooooook.
[11:04] <jaaaaay> or get a bunch of hoes nigga
[11:04] <jaaaaay> skys the limit
[11:04] <jaaaaay> except its not
[11:04] <jaaaaay> what wierd positions could you think of
[11:04] <beau_> uh so onto my question. What kinda radios do you guys use for reporting telemetry like IMU data and other datagrams
[11:04] <jaaaaay> no fuck your question nigga
[11:04] <jaaaaay> space sex
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[11:07] <gonzo_> hope he feels better for that
[11:14] <M0RJX> beau_, HOPE RF RFM98W is an example
[11:14] <M0RJX> Radiometrix have some good modules too
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[11:25] <beau_> hmm relatively new to this, trying to see how i'd connect this up to a pi or a teensy
[11:25] <beau_> @radiometrix stuff like http://www.radiometrix.com/content/clx2
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[11:27] <beau_> https://www.adafruit.com/products/3073 I have this rn, but supposedly my schools receiver can only receive up to 1200baud
[11:27] <gonzo_> what data are you looking to send? Basic location or sometnhing else
[11:28] <beau_> 60bytes of data, humidity, pressure, accel,gyro,magneto temp
[11:28] <beau_> we'd have a separate aprs radio for location
[11:28] <gonzo_> and if you are limited by the receiver you have, what is that receiver
[11:28] <gonzo_> you probably want to be using basic RTTY for that
[11:29] <beau_> not too sure? We have a gigantic antenna on top of the school along with a transceiver box that looks a bit complication in our lab
[11:29] <beau_> Can I just get another lora board and use that as a receiver? Not sure how heavy duty i'd need
[11:29] <gonzo_> there are some arduino based solutions that may be a good starting point
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[11:29] <SpeedEvil> beau_: did you say where you were?
[11:30] Action: SpeedEvil doesn't see it in scroll
[11:30] <gonzo_> lora is an option. The groundstation side of that is pretty much plug and play
[11:30] <beau_> yeah sooo I tested out the adafruit one and I have transmitting working, just by listening on the radio for the little buzz sound
[11:30] <gonzo_> what is the transciver you have in the lab?
[11:30] <beau_> Tomorrow/today Im gonna see if I can read that tho, Lora transmits at like 19.2kbaud
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[11:30] <beau_> lemme try and remember
[11:32] <beau_> icom 910 i think
[11:32] <beau_> http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/satellite/910h/specifications.aspx
[11:33] <gonzo_> ok, a quite useable radio for HAB
[11:33] <beau_> the antenna that this connects to is quite huge though, idk if that's an issue or not
[11:34] <beau_> but a tech mentioned that max bandwidth was 5kHz I think
[11:34] <gonzo_> for basic modes, you will set it to SSB on around 434MHZ. The audio out can be passed into a PC and a decode program like the dl-fldigi
[11:35] <beau_> is that the habhub repo?
[11:35] <beau_> I remember looking at something like that earlier
[11:35] <gonzo_> describe the antenna
[11:35] <beau_> uh
[11:35] <gonzo_> there should be a link to it on the UKHAS site
[11:36] <gonzo_> it is a modified version of the open sources decoder program, tailored for HAB use
[11:36] <beau_> trying to see if there is a photo of it, but its like 30ft tall, telescoping tower kinda deal, looks like two parallel lines with smaller perpendicular lines coming from those two
[11:36] <SIbot> In real units: 30 ft = 9.14 m
[11:37] <gonzo_> https://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi
[11:37] <beau_> ok yeah that would be it
[11:39] <beau_> what would limit the bandwidth, the transceiver or the antenna?
[11:39] <beau_> I guess it could be both?
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> the transciever
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> it is essentially impossible to make a 5khz bandwidth antenna at 433MHz
[11:41] <gonzo_> the antenna bneeds to be appropriate for the 434MHz band. But this will not have a bandwidth limit, as far as data rates goes
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> Perhaps 1MHz if you really, really try
[11:41] <beau_> file:///home/beau/Downloads/2015_BandPlan.pdf uhoh
[11:42] <gonzo_> thr transciver will probably have the 5KHz limit that you mentioned. But using that type of receiver, we tend to only use them up to 300baud
[11:42] <gonzo_> what country/area are you in?
[11:42] <beau_> Rochester New York
[11:43] <beau_> so grid FN13?
[11:43] <gonzo_> ok, then you have far more radio options than we do in the UK
[11:43] <beau_> but at 433 it looks like I cant do SSB
[11:44] <gonzo_> it is legal to fly amateur radio kit, so youi can use 144MHz or 430-440MHz
[11:44] <beau_> is it unrealistic to want 60byte packets every 100ms?
[11:44] <gonzo_> the IC910 will do SSB on 144 and 430-440
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> beau_: consider also that with predictions, you can usually recover the payload
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> so SD card or whatever can store data at silly rates
[11:45] <beau_> Yes, this is just data reporting for a live time health check
[11:45] <beau_> I just didn't know this was excessive
[11:46] <gonzo_> using rtty, plan for a max of 300baud. LORA you can get faster data rates. You have the option of APRS (ASFK on 144mHz) in the US. That will be a few packets per minute, unless you want to upset people
[11:47] <gonzo_> think about what you actually need to send down and how often. Keep it to a minimum for reliability
[11:47] <beau_> hmm ok
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[11:48] <gonzo_> also think about the receiving network. If you use APRS, there is an existing network. Using RTTY you shoudl be able to encourage local hamd to listen and receive with you. Anything else, you have to provide all the receive capoability
[11:49] <gonzo_> if you want to recover the payload on landing, you will need to plan to chase it with a receiver, or use an existinmg network
[11:49] <beau_> might be a little tricky getting the lora radio to do rtty
[11:50] <beau_> theres a very high chance this will end in the atlantic
[11:50] <gonzo_> I believe that the tx modle that iused for lora will also do rtty
[11:50] <beau_> i think the jet stream is right over rochester this time of year
[11:50] <gonzo_> also common for rtty are the radiometrix modules
[11:51] <gonzo_> it's possibly to overfill a balloon, to get an early burst and landing. Biut all depends on your launch site and the lower level winds
[11:55] <beau_> yup first launch mistake was underfilling
[11:55] <beau_> landed 14 hours away in Maine
[11:55] <beau_> errr 14 hour drive, second launch burst at 97,800ft~ and landed only half an hour away!
[11:55] <SIbot> In real units: 97,800 ft = 29.8 km
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[12:14] <gonzo_> ok, you've done launches before. good
[12:15] <gonzo_> just looking at new telem options? what did you use last time for telem?
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[12:16] <beau_> so I'm new to the group as of this semester. Last launches used a prebuilt aprs transmitter
[12:24] <gonzo_> the aprs network will give you a few updates per minute, and is probably not a bad choice for you over there. We have a manual rtty receive network in the UK, because we are not permitted to fly ham kit. So we are limited to very low power licence exempt transmitters. So the RTTY network was born out of necessity
[12:25] <gonzo_> and we use very low baod rates because of the low power limits
[12:25] <gonzo_> but we get 4-6 updates per minute at 50baud
[12:27] <gonzo_> there isn't the same rtty network in the US, but it would not be difficult to do. And ham with a vertical antenna, ssb capable radio and PC has all they need to be a groundstation. And amy have all that hooked up ready to go, just need to download the decode software
[12:27] <gonzo_> you would need to start chatting up the local clubs
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[12:39] <beau_> yeah I go to a tech school, theres a ham club that I can go talk to. Faculty so far has been the most help I think
[12:42] <mfa298> beau_: you should also note that what's ISM in the UK/EU (so no license required) may not be ISM in the USA, so rtty/lora etc might need to be done with a HAM callsign and within HAM rules (which might make lora harder)
[12:45] <beau_> yup its not within ism bands
[12:45] <beau_> grr
[12:45] <beau_> I think ISM would be 900~
[12:45] <beau_> which I don't think our transceiver receives in our mission control
[12:51] <mfa298> for lora you would normally use a matching lora module on the ground as well, a normal transceiver can't decode te lora packets.
[12:52] <mfa298> for rtty /arps you can use a normal transceiver like you've got, although you might need to be transmitting with a suitbable ham license (which presumably the club has for the previous flights you did)
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[13:21] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 035 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
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[13:24] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[13:36] <beau_> mfa298: yeah I'm training for my ham tech license rn. But yeah our club has a license along with a member as well
[13:36] <beau_> Also gonzo_ thank you so much for your help today!
[13:40] <gonzo_> np probs
[13:40] <gonzo_> no
[13:40] <udat> gonzo_: we seem quite limited here amateur license wise for flying
[13:41] <udat> is there a real reason for it given most of the world doesn't have the same restrictions
[13:42] <gonzo_> not really. We tried to get that lifted/eased in the last licence review, last year. butno go
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[13:43] <udat> could have sold it as a full license privilege crumb
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[13:43] <AndyEsser> I should realy make use of my license sometime...
[13:44] <udat> anyone that should be bugged about it or dead for now?
[13:44] <AndyEsser> haven't powered up the 817 since the Conference
[13:44] <mfa298> udat: I think that was suggested. It seems like the CAA are the main blocker on anything changing
[13:44] <AndyEsser> what a surprise...
[13:45] <mfa298> oh noes, if hams can run an aprs transmitter on a balloon all the planes will fall out the sky
[13:45] <AndyEsser> it's not like it'd give us access to the airband anyway
[13:45] <udat> mfa298: so thats what causes planes to drop out of the sky when an APRS payload flys over! :p
[13:46] <gonzo_> rsgb puched for it, as they quite like the ukhas activity as a wow thing to get newcommers interested
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[13:47] <gonzo_> I would have thought that we could have at least had limited erp in primary allocations for full licence
[13:48] <gonzo_> most of bthe beacons/repeaters are limited to 25W erp and we woudln't need anythuing near that
[13:52] <Geoff_G8DHE> Need to get some licensed amateurs in the CAA management chain!
[13:53] Action: AndyEsser backs away slowly
[13:53] <Geoff_G8DHE> Only way to get some budget allocated, as there is nothing in it for the CAA to allow operation :-(
[13:54] <AndyEsser> seems crazy that CAA can veto using frequencies of whole spectrum, rather than just their little slice
[13:54] <gonzo_> I think that the radio infrastructure is managed by NATS
[13:55] <Geoff_G8DHE> Well, signals outside the band can still cause blocking and use within aircraft as well.
[13:55] <gonzo_> antyhjing in the air is their realm
[13:55] <AndyEsser> if I throw a ball in the air...
[13:55] <Geoff_G8DHE> Over 400' I htink
[13:56] <gonzo_> if you throw it high enough.....
[13:56] <Geoff_G8DHE> its less than 2m sphere so no need!
[13:56] <AndyEsser> Geoff_G8DHE: how do you know how big my balls are?!
[13:56] <gonzo_> fireworks/lasers/kites/cranes, all need their permission
[13:56] <Geoff_G8DHE> I thought we heard about them a week or two ago ?
[13:58] <AndyEsser> bloody unelected officials, dictating how I live my life
[13:58] <gonzo_> though with a good number of full licencees, I'd not trust them to be able to fly kit within specs
[13:58] <gonzo_> welcome to .gov !
[13:59] <gonzo_> NoV for airborn work would be a good move
[13:59] <Geoff_G8DHE> We used to have special testing requirements for ATV, when I had G6AIY/T.
[13:59] <Geoff_G8DHE> they were all dropped once it was brought within the normal licence.
[14:00] <gonzo_> what was the test for? modulation depth measurement etc?
[14:00] <Geoff_G8DHE> Harmonics and frequency, had to submit methods, serial numbers and calibration certficates.
[14:02] <Geoff_G8DHE> of the test equipment.
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[14:02] <Geoff_G8DHE> those days we were only using 405 B/ transmissions!
[14:03] <Geoff_G8DHE> http://www.videorepeater.com/picturegallery/archive/image018.htm
[14:05] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ER1TUM/AM after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ER1TUM%2FAM
[14:10] <udat> NoV would likely help in talking organisations around, can then say a couple of hundred people will have the ability rather than ten thousand
[14:11] <gonzo_> I saw a homebrew flying spot scanner, that one of the neigbours had built, probably late 70's. He didn't have a camera at the time, so modified a TV set to remove the gun modulation (and i assume back off the drive to avoid persistance of the phosphpor?) and a photocell over the top. It used the local BBC signal to drive the set. He exracted the sync from the tv and reinserted the o/p from the photocell. And put hand drawn tranparancies on it
[14:11] <udat> given not that many people will use it, no sense scaring these organisations
[14:11] <Geoff_G8DHE> That is often the way new modes/bands are started.
[14:11] <udat> they will see the number and think there will be 10k transmitters floating about at all times
[14:11] <udat> :)
[14:12] <udat> which would be cool but hey
[14:12] <udat> :)
[14:12] <gonzo_> I suspect that the CAA are mostly unaware that we share one of their primary radar allocation s
[14:13] <Geoff_G8DHE> No they are VERY aware, at heathrow they use the ATV transmitter as a reerence point!
[14:13] <Geoff_G8DHE> They also new all about our repeaters on Racehill Brighton!
[14:13] <gonzo_> there have been quiet comms between the uk microwave group and the nats tech people, to alert them to 23cms radars that have issues. They are very happy to get the info
[14:13] <gonzo_> nats may be aware. CAA poss not so much
[14:14] <Geoff_G8DHE> No they have to sign-off ATV repeater license applications.
[14:14] <Geoff_G8DHE> on 23 cms
[14:14] <Geoff_G8DHE> as do MoD as well.
[14:15] <gonzo_> NoV's have a special place in the licencing too, as they show up on offcoms records on spectrun occupancy. Whereas normal Ar op's hardly do
[14:16] <gonzo_> so beacons/repeaters are welcomed by ther various rsgb groups
[14:17] <gonzo_> Yep, the primary user sign offs really do slow down some NoV issues
[14:18] <gonzo_> for years there were non issued for 70cm. Because MoD had no-one in the posn that dealt with them
[14:18] <Geoff_G8DHE> Indeed, its a little better now I think but not a lot, they seem to do them in batches.
[14:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WB8ELK-2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-2
[14:25] <AndyEsser> NoV?
[14:25] <Geoff_G8DHE> Notice Of Variation
[14:25] <AndyEsser> ah
[14:25] <Geoff_G8DHE> document additonal to licence to allow special conditions
[14:26] <Geoff_G8DHE> needed for repeaters and BBS to allow for broadcasting etc.
[14:26] <AndyEsser> gotcha
[14:26] <AndyEsser> ta
[14:28] <gonzo_> The other one is a Special Research Licence. That has significantly different terms
[14:28] <gonzo_> extra bands/power etc
[14:29] <gonzo_> don't tend to hear of them that often
[14:29] <Geoff_G8DHE> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0024/51198/ofw306.pdf
[14:30] <AndyEsser> Geoff_G8DHE: cheers
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[17:40] <Laurenceb> !whereis UBSEDS18
[17:40] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: 03UBSEDS18 was over 03Snohomish County, WA, USA 10(48.18664,-121.14766) at 0312198 meters about 0318 hours ago
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[18:05] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS18 after 0318 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS18
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[21:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PIGLET - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PIGLET
[21:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[21:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03S-20 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-20
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[23:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[00:00] --- Fri Nov 18 2016