highaltitude.log.20161019

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[06:00] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
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[06:15] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[06:18] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-5 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-5
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[06:58] <AndyEsser> morning
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[07:01] <fsphil> greetings
[07:03] <SA6BSS-Mike> good morning earthlings
[07:05] <fsphil> mars landing today
[07:05] <AndyEsser> 0o0o of the ESA probe?
[07:05] <fsphil> yeah
[07:05] <fsphil> the mostly pointless one
[07:06] <AndyEsser> this is their first landing on mars?!
[07:06] <AndyEsser> o wow, it's all been NASA
[07:06] <fsphil> apart from beagle-2
[07:06] <AndyEsser> "unless you count the 14.5 seconds that Russia's probe was active before failing"
[07:07] <AndyEsser> fsphil: ssh - we don't talk about beagle-2
[07:07] <fsphil> well that did land
[07:07] <fsphil> and apparently survived
[07:07] <AndyEsser> just did it very quietly
[07:07] <fsphil> hah yeah
[07:07] <fsphil> if a mars probe lands successfully but doesn't radio back, has it really landed
[07:08] <AndyEsser> No-one will know
[07:08] <AndyEsser> I'll love it when we finally send people to Mars
[07:08] <AndyEsser> and go and investigate all these crashed probes
[07:08] <AndyEsser> and Beagle-2 was simple a case of the antenna didn't deploy or something
[07:08] <fsphil> it's a good bet
[07:09] <AndyEsser> it'll be something so stupid as that
[07:09] <fsphil> or programming error
[07:09] <fsphil> which would be worse
[07:09] <AndyEsser> like Ariane 5
[07:13] <AndyEsser> because obviously copy/pasting the code from a different system into a new system is going to work bug free...
[07:14] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03S-18 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-18
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[07:22] <fsphil> java developers eh
[07:23] <AndyEsser> oi
[07:24] <AndyEsser> "Write once, run everywhere" isn't necessarily a philosophy to adopt in this instance
[07:26] <AndyEsser> Or rather
[07:26] <AndyEsser> Write Once, Run Anywhere*
[07:27] <AndyEsser> * Anywhere does not include leaving the atmosphere
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[07:32] <gonzo_> isn't it 'Write once, run away'
[07:33] <fsphil> "Write once, ship"
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[07:35] <daveake> "Put on kickstarter, don't write, don't ship, run away"
[07:37] <gonzo_> and smoke the proceedes
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[08:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DSBEAR - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DSBEAR
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[08:22] <gonzo_> looks like they are launching again
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[08:28] <udat> any tips on fl-digi with rtty beyond just sit and look at it?
[08:29] <udat> their last two i've seen on the waterfall from <15km but taken until >30km before it gets green valid decode
[08:31] <udat> bit of movement from 15-30 in frequency
[08:31] <mfa298> udat: fiddling with the filter bandwidth and shift can help sometimes.
[08:31] <udat> not sure if it's that that's throwing it just just need better snr
[08:31] <udat> s/just just/or just/
[08:31] <mfa298> particularly for higher baud rtty.
[08:32] <mfa298> on the current (not bleedeing edge) version of dl-fldigi the filter bandwidth is normally optimised for 50 baud flights
[08:33] <fsphil> playing with the shift can help. make sure SQL is off too
[08:33] <udat> yeah noticesd a previous one i needed to change the bw/shift to get a more reliable decode
[08:34] <udat> SQL off yeah, afc too seemed to be a bad idea
[08:34] <udat> just wanders off
[08:34] <udat> :)
[08:34] <fsphil> what's your antenna?
[08:34] <fsphil> I think you've just been unlucky with the signal strength on these recent payloads
[08:35] <gonzo_> if you set the filter width quite narrow and the signal is wandering and fading, the AFC can lose it's grip
[08:35] <gonzo_> you want the shift set as accuratly as possible to get best decode
[08:36] <udat> fsphil: been swapping between a collinear and a rhcp x quad
[08:37] <gonzo_> for 50bd rtty I at reasonable strengths I tend to set 100-120Hz bandwidth. Narrowing it down for weaker sigs
[08:37] <fsphil> is it possible you have an obstruction to your east?
[08:37] <udat> neither ideal but the vhf gods will strike me with lightning if i put a yagi vertically polarized..
[08:37] <fsphil> south east I guess
[08:37] <udat> S/SE is my only good direction
[08:38] <udat> copying gb3vhf on 2m most of the time and gb3uhf on 70cm couple of times a day
[08:38] <gonzo_> is that a crossed yagi?
[08:38] <udat> as said, i can see it okay on the waterfall from 15km and hear not long after so just a bit frustrating
[08:38] <udat> http://www.wimo.com/xquad-antennas_e.html
[08:39] <udat> i guess i could switch it to vertical without attracting the gods attention ;)
[08:39] <udat> it's pretty accessible, will go up on the roof after cup of tea..
[08:40] <fsphil> aww. wish my roof was accessible.
[08:40] <gonzo_> could you mount that with the elements H and V rather than X
[08:40] <gonzo_> and it says it will switch H and V
[08:40] <udat> it's the garage roof so not too high
[08:41] <gonzo_> used for satellite?
[08:41] <udat> gonzo_: yeah they are connected with phasing harness for rhcp, just need to unplug and use just the vertical
[08:41] <udat> yeah
[08:41] <udat> making a switching box for room here is on the to do list for some time in the distant future
[08:41] <gonzo_> poss bring the feeds down into the garage and you can phase it thgere? More accessible thaqn going up ladders
[08:42] <udat> yeah could do
[08:43] <gonzo_> you prob have an elevation rototor then? I find that putting 10deg of el on helps to take the main lobe up out of the local ISM noise, whilst still seeing the balloons
[08:43] <udat> 12 deg fixed elevation on both 2/70, I'd like az/el rotator but ££
[08:44] <udat> live in a hole in the ground my horizon is horrible to snything but east through south
[08:44] <gonzo_> you can make a simple el with a sat jack actuator and some cheepo mast stand off bearings
[08:45] <gonzo_> your location sounds same as =mine. You are not next door are you?
[08:45] <gonzo_> I'm in a valley, with a very local 5deg horison
[08:47] <udat> didn't have my radio head on when picked this place to live
[08:48] <udat> hence looking up the way now
[08:48] <gonzo_> snap. And TBH, not that interested in terrestrial comms. I can test kit on the bench, no need to talk to stinky hams
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[08:50] <udat> :)
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[09:30] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5KMP-3 after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5KMP-3
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[10:16] <daveake> dsbear up
[10:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Toyota premio 2001_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Toyota%20premio%202001_chase
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[10:21] <dbrooke> assuming they're using PITS, I'm curious why 300 baud if no SSDV, or is that a hardware UART constraint?
[10:22] <Upu> BARC haven't worked out how to attach a camera yet
[10:22] <daveake> It's SiS ... dunno why they don't do SSDV
[10:22] <daveake> Suspect they haven't figured out how to change the speed yet
[10:22] <AndyEsser> least they're better at getting the frequency right :P
[10:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Don't we all! Its not as if if more telemetry is needed, a slower data rate would yield more data in this case.
[10:23] <dbrooke> so PITS can do 50 baud if configured then?
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[10:24] <daveake> sure
[10:26] <dbrooke> OK, I'll just consider it another mystery of SiS then 8-)
[10:27] <dbrooke> I hadn't noticed they'd sent one my way yesterday.
[10:29] <dbrooke> I could have nipped across and configured it to 50 baud
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[10:51] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
[11:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[11:08] <gonzo_> bugger, signals but a huge local carrier on the low tone
[11:18] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03GOSPACE after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GOSPACE
[11:19] <pb0ahx> !flights
[11:19] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03DSBEAR 10(367d), 03UBSEDS18 434.612.5 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(64a5)
[11:19] <pb0ahx> !payload 367d
[11:19] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Payload 03DSBEAR 10(367d) 03$$DSBEAR - 03DSBEAR - 03434.45 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
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[11:47] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 038 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
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[12:07] <pb0ahx> wat is the hight record til now ??
[12:11] <udat> pop
[12:12] <pb0ahx> poof
[12:13] <fsphil> pb0ahx: 45km
[12:13] <pb0ahx> fsphil, tnx info
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[12:23] <udat> gonzo_: did some comparing there, the collinear at 10m > x quad (vertical only) at 5m
[12:24] <udat> maybe look at putting something else directional up to compare
[12:24] <fsphil> still annoyed that this mars lander won't send any pictures after landing. what where they thinking :)
[12:24] <udat> then calculate whether it's worth the grief i will get if put it up high
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[12:26] <pb0ahx> DSBEAR team mni tnx for very good flight for me tnx
[12:43] <gonzo_> I have (well, when they go back up) almost identical
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[12:44] <gonzo_> I find that the 8ele yagi is about the same sig strength
[12:44] <gonzo_> but being more directional I get less qrm on the yagi
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[12:45] <gonzo_> and can give it a little el to cut out some local noise
[12:45] <gonzo_> but when habs get to the horizon, the collinear with the extrs height tends to be better
[12:46] <gonzo_> the same sigs was refering to closer in
[12:47] <gonzo_> once habs are above my local horizin, then the yagi wins on sig strength, which is the majority of the flight
[12:48] <gonzo_> could you put a dedicated vertical 70cm yagi on the roof, with a rototor? Looking like a TV antenna?
[12:48] <gonzo_> or even at someone elses place, and just remot to it
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[14:12] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HB9FDK-14 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HB9FDK-14
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[14:29] <fsphil> 20 minutes until mars landing
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[14:30] <AndyEsser> "landing"
[14:30] <AndyEsser> :)
[14:30] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> hum says 1h 9 mininuts on the countdown clock to the livestream ?
[14:33] <fsphil> edm twitter account said 20 minutes, about 10 minutes ago
[14:34] <fsphil> https://twitter.com/ESA_EDM?lang=en-gb
[14:34] <AndyEsser> yea
[14:34] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Mumm the timeline suggests 14:57UTC for actual landing so yes 20 minutes
[14:34] <fsphil> yeah, 14:42 UT when it hits the atmosphere
[14:34] <fsphil> the beacon is transmitting so there should be some data at least
[14:35] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Usual naff ESA broadcast confusions I suspect
[14:36] <AndyEsser> wonder if pjm is getting the signal
[14:36] <fsphil> so it'll land, we might get some descent pictures tomorrow. then nothing more
[14:36] <fsphil> such a wasted opportunity :)
[14:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> tends to be the norm for ESA
[14:36] <fsphil> is this the first ever planetary lander without a camera?
[14:37] <fsphil> I can't think of any others
[14:42] <fsphil> should be heating up now
[14:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/ExoMars/Watch_ExoMars_arrival_and_landing
[14:47] <fsphil> first hints should arrive on earth in a few minutes
[14:47] <fsphil> I think it's a 10 minute delay?
[14:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> 9 minutes something
[14:49] <fsphil> and that should be it on the ground now
[14:49] <fsphil> that much can be assured :)
[14:50] <fsphil> the universe is too slow
[14:51] <fsphil> hehe, chatting about wifi on the esa stream
[14:52] <pjm> AndyEsser, lol no its a bit weak at present
[14:52] <pjm> DSS43 in canberra is listening to TGO whilst its tx'ign on its omni!
[14:52] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> they seem to have multipile streams and at least one with a live mic
[14:52] <fsphil> I've just got a view of ESOC
[14:53] <fsphil> the doppler shift should be being seen by now
[14:53] <AndyEsser> http://livestream.com/accounts/362/events/6518620
[14:53] <AndyEsser> this is what I'm watching
[14:53] <AndyEsser> pjm: ah, that's a shame
[14:54] <fsphil> it's not intended to be heard on earth, just a low power UHF transmitter
[14:55] <fsphil> they did a similar thing with huygens at titan
[14:56] <fsphil> "EDM signal disappeared as expected while it screamed through the top parts of Mars' atmosphere"
[14:56] <fsphil> oh nice, "SIGNAL DETECTION!! #GMRT detects @ESA_EDM signal after plasma blackout, final moments of descent coming"
[14:57] <fsphil> parachute seems to have worked
[14:57] <fsphil> powered descent
[14:57] <fsphil> looking good
[14:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EPS1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EPS1
[14:58] <fsphil> parachute cut off
[14:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> they reckon its down
[14:59] <mattbrejza> but in how many pieces...
[14:59] <AndyEsser> I should screenshot this iage of the control room and take it with me on Friday to my meeting with Welsh Govt
[14:59] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> 3 - lander shell and chute
[15:00] <mattbrejza> + heat shield?
[15:00] <AndyEsser> stream is crapping out for me :(
[15:01] <fsphil> waterfall spectrum is looking very quiet
[15:01] <mattbrejza> well they still have a carrier it seems, so number of pieces < 10 it seems
[15:01] <russss> I think the carrier has gone
[15:01] <russss> the screen on the right is TGO's signal
[15:01] <mattbrejza> oh
[15:01] <fsphil> uhoh
[15:02] <russss> the waterfall on the left was the lander
[15:02] <fsphil> "Still waiting for signal of @ESA_EDM touchdown from GMRT"
[15:02] <qyx> they should have thrown a rock there instead
[15:02] <qyx> no carrier too
[15:02] <fsphil> not looking good
[15:03] <russss> they were only a couple dBs off the noise floor of that telescope though
[15:03] <fsphil> yeah, and it could be sitting at an odd angle
[15:03] <fsphil> though I think it's a pretty omni gain antenna
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[15:04] <russss> it was designed to be received by the orbiters rather than by earth
[15:04] <mattbrejza> maybe esa have found another ledge to land on
[15:04] <fsphil> heh, maybe it bounced
[15:04] <russss> but the playback of that isn't due to be downlinked until tomorrow
[15:04] <daveake> Landed on Matt Damon
[15:05] <Epsom> Hi, We are from a scholl in south east england. We have built a transmitter and got the payload to be accepted by DL-FLDIGI. Is there were we ask for flight documents to be verified?
[15:05] <daveake> Is this for testing to get on the map, or are you launching in the next few days ?
[15:06] <daveake> You just need a payload doc to get on the map; flight doc comes later when you have a fixed launch date
[15:06] <Epsom> Testing on the map and also, in the future, for verifying our flights
[15:07] <daveake> Create a payload doc at http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/ then
[15:07] <fsphil> stream's died, aww
[15:07] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Have you seen this page yet ? http://habitat.habhub.org/
[15:07] <Epsom> Hmmmm... it says 'Uploaded telemetery_payload successfully' but doesn't appear on the map :(
[15:07] <fsphil> going for a jaffa cake
[15:07] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> take the genpayload button
[15:07] <daveake> Yeah needs a payload doc before it gets on the map
[15:07] <Epsom> We have generated a payload and it shows up in the test section of DL-FLDIGI
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[15:08] <russss> screen on the right is showing injection burn complete for TGO I think
[15:08] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> what callsign is it ?
[15:08] <daveake> ^
[15:08] <Epsom> EPS1
[15:08] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Yo haven't created a Payload document yet nothing found
[15:08] <daveake> they have
[15:09] <daveake> it's showing in the logtail
[15:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> ?
[15:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Nothing under that callsign as payload document
[15:09] <daveake> Well they're in the logtail now
[15:09] <Epsom> It's appeared on the map as we speak...
[15:09] <daveake> dbc88a4ee5db072afb00f7c2ae0a6f47
[15:09] <mfa298> 14:57 < SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: EPS1 - https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EPS1
[15:09] <daveake> there you go then :_
[15:10] <mfa298> that would suggest it's being parsed and on the map
[15:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Mumm EPS gets a result but as soon as the 1 goes in it can't find anything
[15:10] <Epsom> Thanks guys... had so much fun making the trackers with the school kids. Heavier than planned at 37g but working. We are entering the Boscombe Down Ballon Challenge
[15:10] <daveake> Yeah that search isnb't on the callsign
[15:11] <daveake> If that's 37g inc battery that's pretty good going
[15:14] <qyx> do you have a picture of it?
[15:15] <fsphil> mars express should be sending its data to earth soon
[15:16] <daveake> A mars express a day helps you not work at all
[15:17] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03S-19 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-19
[15:17] <fsphil> a mars landing a day will get you one working lander eventually.
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[15:20] <Ian_> Martians will get us for fly tipping any time soon.
[15:21] <Ian_> That will upset the US govt. Trump will have them build a wall or something.
[15:25] <Epsom> Pic is on our twitter feed @epsomcollegesci
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[15:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Live mics again at ESOC
[15:43] <fsphil> got a url? the one I was watching just looped and started playing the separation bit
[15:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> http://livestream.com/ESA/marsarrival
[15:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> just gone to a trailer
[15:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> for part 1
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[15:46] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Yes this is the 16:40 transmission
[15:51] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Ugh why can't they stick to the subject
[15:51] <fsphil> lol
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[17:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03STABILOTRON-II - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=STABILOTRON-II
[17:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD2EAT-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD2EAT-12
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[19:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HIRF-SSDV - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRF-SSDV
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[19:34] <SM0ULC-Reb> no signal form the lander yet?
[19:34] <fsphil> nadda
[19:35] <fsphil> mars express heard the same as the earth receiver, signal disapeared moments before landing
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[19:37] <Vaizki> beagle 3, was it?
[19:38] <fsphil> seems like it
[19:38] <SM0ULC-Reb> it was to have woken up by now right?
[19:38] <fsphil> TGO has telemetry from the descent, so there might be some good data there
[19:38] <fsphil> it won't be a total loss if they can figure out what happened
[19:39] <Vaizki> I'm a bit confounded why europe needs to do this stuff from scratch and not stand on the shoulders of the americans who did this stuff what.. 40 years ago?
[19:40] <Vaizki> surely the exploration and eventual colonization is a humanity-scale project and not a science fair?
[19:40] <Vaizki> ... of mars ..
[19:40] <mfa298> bbc news earlier had the obligatory beagle2 reference
[19:41] <Vaizki> ooh sorry 'bout that, it was a bit below the belt I know
[19:43] <SM0ULC-Reb> nce that next thging is supposed to big a big vehicle...
[19:44] <Vaizki> dipped into the akvavit have you now? :)
[19:44] <mfa298> hopeing (/praying) for 3rd time lucky ?
[19:46] <SM0ULC-Reb> one good landing whould have been nice..
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[19:50] <Vaizki> the americans have had a pretty good run, I think the polar lander in '99 was the last one they lost
[19:52] <Upu> Dual mast mounted Habamps https://www.dropbox.com/s/kr8i5dzlwl8gqyn/2016-10-19%2019.20.16.jpg?dl=0
[19:52] <Upu> https://www.dropbox.com/s/33aepg2q7zljw94/2016-10-19%2019.20.37.jpg?dl=0
[19:53] <Vaizki> are you going to epoxy them or something for additional water ingress protection?
[19:53] <SM0ULC-Reb> nice
[19:53] <Vaizki> oh sorry missed the cover :D
[20:04] <fsphil> juno is in safe mode
[20:04] <fsphil> things going well in space today :)
[20:06] <mfa298> Martians not found ... press f1 to continue!
[20:07] <Upu> just stick a cover over it :)
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[20:44] <aadamson> fsphil, is there a logtail equiv for the SSDV uploads?
[20:47] <fsphil> nope. the http response should have the error if there was one
[20:49] <fsphil> how are you uploading the data?
[20:58] <aadamson> pushing via json
[20:58] <aadamson> so I'll check the error
[20:59] <Vaizki> oooh I just saw tha solar roadways install in idaho.. o - m - g..
[21:00] <aadamson> right now I"m just debugging some things... so figured I'd see if there was a tail.- thanks
[21:00] <Vaizki> 6 years of r&d and hey made a disco floor..
[21:01] <aadamson> Upu, - PM
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[21:44] <Ian_> We'll have to see how it has faired in five years time. Route 66 routed!?
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[21:46] <fsphil> Vaizki: a partially working disco floor
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[21:53] <Ian_> It will be just so much crushed plastics/glass substrate which might just be partially working by then.
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[22:36] <fsphil> http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2016/10191525-brief-update-opportunitys.html
[22:36] <fsphil> aww
[22:40] <Vaizki> didn't they try to land it almost on top of opportunity
[22:47] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
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[23:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[00:00] --- Thu Oct 20 2016