highaltitude.log.20161004

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[02:43] <evilroots> !APRS
[02:43] <evilroots> !TRACKER
[02:44] <evilroots> !HAMRADIO
[02:44] <evilroots> !FUCKYOUTOO
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[04:18] <evilroots> !aprs
[04:18] <SpacenearUS> 03evilroots: Tracking via APRS: 034Z7GUL-11 10(ILHAB-1d), 03AD6AM-11 10(UBSEDS15), 03AD6AM-12 10(UBSEDS18), 03DK3SB-10, 03DK3SB-12, 03DK3SB-13, 03DK3SB-8, 03DL3AKB-11, 03DL7AD-11, 03HABIL-1, 03K2JJI-11, 03K6RPT-11, 03KD2EAT-11, 03KD5ZPL-11, 03KD9DBI-11, 03KG5KNM-11, 03KG7WFR-11, 03KI7CUX-11, 03KI7CUX-9 10(KI7CUX-11_chase), 03M0SBU-11 10(UBSEDS15), 03M0SBU-12 10(UBSEDS18), 03M0UPU-7, 03M0
[04:18] <SpacenearUS> SP3OSJ-12, 03SP9UOB-10 10(SP9UOB), 03VE3KCL-9, 03VK3YT-11, 03VK4BW-11, 03VK5QI-11, 03W7QO-7, 03WB8ELK-3, 03WB8ELK-6
[04:18] <evilroots> !tracker
[04:18] <SpacenearUS> 03evilroots: Here you go - 12http://habhub.org/t/
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[04:20] <evilroots> UBSED18 is comeing towards me
[04:20] <evilroots> Too bad no digipeaters
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[04:48] <x-f> evilroots, UBSEDS18 isn't APRS-only, it transmits Contestia on 434.612 as well
[04:50] <x-f> ah, maybe not over that continent as 70cm ISM is not licence-free there
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[06:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB
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[07:40] <AndyEsser> moaning
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[07:47] <fsphil> happy forenoon
[07:48] <AndyEsser> indeed
[07:48] <fsphil> oh look, "Your brandnew iPhone 7s is waiting".. I just have to open this zip file they've attached....
[07:48] <AndyEsser> click it :)
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[07:52] <fsphil> it did come in via a disposable email address. I could setup a VM and try it.
[07:52] <fsphil> nah
[07:55] <gonzo_> or just fwd it to someone you don't like
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[07:55] <mfa298> sounds like a lot of effort to just get an iphone 7s
[07:56] <mfa298> maybe if it was something useful
[07:56] <fsphil> mmm
[07:57] <gonzo_> I had one from a friend at the local hostital's tech dept. Saying that they had an over buy of ipads and were selling cheap. But the pic was of the guy with a cotton wool patch over one eye, holding up the packaging to cam
[07:57] <fsphil> sounds legit
[07:58] <gonzo_> I did giggle
[07:58] <daveake> Maybe this would work - an email to UKHAS entitled "Please open attachment for your permanent permission to launch a HAB whenever and wherever you like"
[07:59] <AndyEsser> mfa298: HAB tracker?
[07:59] <AndyEsser> :)
[07:59] <AndyEsser> don't really mind if it gets lost
[08:00] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: hostital....
[08:00] <AndyEsser> that so needs to be a thing
[08:00] <fsphil> hah, my brain autocorrected that
[08:00] <fsphil> never even noticed
[08:00] <mfa298> gonzo_'s ipad reminded me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI
[08:00] <AndyEsser> People who've worked in workshop type spaces before... any key things I should look out for, or question when I visit this place this afternoon?
[08:01] <AndyEsser> Going to start off with just the office and an electronics build + test bench
[08:01] <AndyEsser> but will move to heavier machining next year
[08:02] <gonzo_> my typing is so bad and the vnc lag means that it's gone long before I see what went out. I really can;t be arsed correcting things
[08:02] <gonzo_> are you about to rent it for doing mech work then? Or just cheap office?
[08:03] <AndyEsser> It's ok - I have a gonzo-correct feature built into Irssi :)
[08:03] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: it's a combined office + workshop space
[08:03] <AndyEsser> to justify cost and things, the first bits to be sorted out will be bits that either already, or in the short term, generate revenue
[08:03] <AndyEsser> so office, and electronics stuff
[08:03] <AndyEsser> it will then move to some light machining of stuff
[08:03] <AndyEsser> the big bastard stuff would be done at Bangor
[08:04] <gonzo_> good, just look at the typed letters, and try all combinations of order, adjacent letter and missing/extra fat fingered letters. Then feed through an anagram prog. Should get you to what I meant
[08:05] <gonzo_> I've worked in industrial units, but not doing heavy stuff.
[08:05] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/zd-live-site/st-asaph.pdf
[08:06] <AndyEsser> I do love how it's described as "energy efficient" with F rating...
[08:06] <gonzo_> But a lot of it is down to the neigbours. Is there going to be parking, getting blocked in issues. Smell from chems/process
[08:06] <AndyEsser> parking is dedicated
[08:06] <AndyEsser> next door unit is an AV company
[08:07] <AndyEsser> unit opposite is a Precision Optics company
[08:07] <AndyEsser> and another unit is a Laser Micromachining company
[08:07] <gonzo_> without extra ceilings etc, they can be a greenhouse in summer. The one I am in now is bacically a wharehouse with desks in.
[08:07] <AndyEsser> Yea, I had thought about some of the parts in the workshop being divided into smaller rooms (like the electronics build+test) stuff, with A/C routed into them
[08:07] <AndyEsser> 1 to keep dust/particles out of
[08:07] <AndyEsser> and to deal with temp
[08:07] <gonzo_> if there is separate office and dirty areas, prob ok
[08:08] <AndyEsser> There are
[08:08] <AndyEsser> was going to keep the office part for office though
[08:08] <AndyEsser> rather than having the electronics stuff in there as well
[08:08] <AndyEsser> but might reconsider that
[08:08] <AndyEsser> there is a smaller room at the back of the main office that currently has a conference table in, but could be a good place for light work such as electronics stuff
[08:10] <gonzo_> sounds nice
[08:10] <gonzo_> security ok?
[08:10] <AndyEsser> it's not a secure site, but the building is sturdy construction
[08:10] <AndyEsser> and CCTV + RFID readers for doors would be being installed
[08:11] <AndyEsser> Have a meeting afterwards over in Bangor with Gywnedd council about some properties and schemes they might have at Parc Menai for my company
[08:12] <AndyEsser> problem is, that's then 1 hour drive away, rather than 30 mins
[08:12] <AndyEsser> which means to go there would need a pretty good incentive
[08:12] <gonzo_> that's a lot on your day
[08:12] <gonzo_> (could end up kipping there occasionally!)
[08:13] <AndyEsser> I have a 45-60 minute commute atm
[08:13] <AndyEsser> but the St. Asaph property is nice and halfway between Bangor and Chester
[08:13] <Vaizki> innovative and flexible.. it's a rectangle inside a rectangle.
[08:13] <AndyEsser> so people from both directions get easy access
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[08:14] <Vaizki> why do you need a workshop or even office for consulting?
[08:14] <AndyEsser> of course... the Parc Menai one has RAF Mona and RAF Valley nearby for.... "testing"
[08:14] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: I'm not a consultant
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[08:14] <AndyEsser> also, Zero Dependency (my company) has some nibbles of other jobs coming along that would require some hardware and software development, and would help fund some of the R&D stuff I'm doing
[08:15] <Vaizki> what? no con and insult?
[08:15] <AndyEsser> and Wales are desperate for SME's to move to North Wales and bring industry and jobs with them, so they're basically throwing money around
[08:16] <Vaizki> you should naturally check if you can erect a 30m high mast for your antennas :)
[08:17] <gonzo_> the AV co next door may not like you!
[08:17] <AndyEsser> Already on my list :P
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[08:17] <AndyEsser> outside the property at the back corner is a concrete plate, that is clear of trees
[08:17] <AndyEsser> that would be perfect to bolt something into, and then run guy wires from onto the property for additional support for a mast ;)
[08:17] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: details ;)
[08:17] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: but yes, that had been my plan
[08:17] <Vaizki> police headquarters next door?
[08:18] <AndyEsser> radio mast with V-2000 on, and a couple Yagi's, one pointing SE to get launches, one pointing NW to try and chat to fsphil's mountain
[08:18] <AndyEsser> and maybe a dish as well for some satellite stuff
[08:18] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: indeed
[08:18] <AndyEsser> fields nearby for HAB launches as well ;)
[08:18] <AndyEsser> 3-phase in the property already for larger machines
[08:19] <AndyEsser> need to find out what the internet is like
[08:19] <gonzo_> you want to join #hearsat on starchat. That's wjhere most of the satellite eavesdropping people live
[08:19] <AndyEsser> might knock on the door of one the companies nearby
[08:19] <Vaizki> that's one thing I never get.. every house in Finland has 3-phase.
[08:19] <Vaizki> 95+% of flats in apartment buildings have 3 phase
[08:19] <Vaizki> why would you not have 3 phases coming in :P
[08:19] <AndyEsser> why would you need it in residential properties?
[08:20] <gonzo_> my folks house has 3ph at the cable head. Onbly one phase used though.
[08:20] <AndyEsser> pretty sure most proeprties in the UK don't exceed 100A
[08:20] <AndyEsser> (residential)
[08:20] <fsphil> they run 3 phase down the street here, but each house is connected to just one
[08:20] <Vaizki> my island has 3phases now
[08:20] <gonzo_> in the US they have a strange 2phase 180deg system
[08:20] <AndyEsser> Your island is better than my island
[08:20] <gonzo_> so they get 110 and 220
[08:20] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: yea, remember someone mentioning it in here a few weeks ago
[08:21] <AndyEsser> crazy
[08:21] <Vaizki> I don't know what 100A has to do with 3 phases.. but of course electric saunas are one great use for 3phase
[08:21] <Vaizki> as is electric heating
[08:21] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: typically the single phase feed into residential properties here is rated for a Max 100A I believe
[08:21] <gonzo_> but I can't see how they manage grounding? I'm sure google would answer
[08:21] <AndyEsser> any more than that, and the electric company suggest paying to have 3-phase installed
[08:22] <AndyEsser> at least, the few times we've had properties that have exceeded that
[08:22] <AndyEsser> electric saunas seem.... inefficient
[08:22] <AndyEsser> brb
[08:22] <gonzo_> I asked about 3ph. But there are only two phass going down the street. So would be a new feed from the substation. Many 10's of k£
[08:22] <Vaizki> inefficient? electricity converts readily to heat :)
[08:23] <fsphil> your electricity is probably cheaper than ours
[08:23] <Vaizki> well I'm happy it's 3phase everywhere here..
[08:23] <gonzo_> but making the electricity in the first place is more wasteful than burniung it locally
[08:23] <Vaizki> burning what?
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[08:24] <gonzo_> (sweeping statement with no data to back it up.... Discuss)
[08:24] <Vaizki> oh you mean a wood fired sauna?
[08:24] <gonzo_> coal and gas in the uk mainly
[08:24] <gonzo_> just the excuse to have a wood fire is good for me
[08:25] <Vaizki> well most people who live in apartments have a sauna but no chimney
[08:25] <fsphil> there is something nice about a good wood fire
[08:25] <gonzo_> they are prob best sat around outside with a beer
[08:25] <Vaizki> I have 2 fireplaces but electric sauna in the city. because I'm lazy. at the island there is a wood fired sauna naturally.
[08:26] <gonzo_> I'm thinking that I must put a covered area in the garden, with a fire pit and some windbreaks.
[08:27] <gonzo_> sounds nice Vaizki
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[08:28] <AndyEsser> I lit my wood burner last night :)
[08:29] <gonzo_> first time this year?
[08:30] <AndyEsser> nah, lit it on Sunday night as well
[08:30] <AndyEsser> that was the first time
[08:30] <AndyEsser> Got it up to about 300 degrees C last night :)
[08:30] <AndyEsser> (according to the HIGHLY accurate stick on thermometer on the burner)
[08:31] <gonzo_> I have to finish reinstalling the burner in the garage extension. It's been really nice to have in the garage over the last couple pf years.
[08:32] <Vaizki> wood burner? do I even want to know...
[08:32] <AndyEsser> it burns wood..
[08:32] <gonzo_> mine is gauged by then the paint smokes or the wood pile next to it starts to smoulder
[08:32] <AndyEsser> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtyfQIRWcAA42TG.jpg:large
[08:32] <Vaizki> ok yes it's exactly as I imagined
[08:33] <Vaizki> http://www.smartia.fi/tuotekuvat/999345_big.jpg
[08:33] <gonzo_> wood burner = wood fired stove/heater
[08:33] <Vaizki> I was going to link that :)
[08:33] <AndyEsser> yep - basically exactly that
[08:34] <gonzo_> mine is an old propane gas bottle, cut and welded up. Propper garage build
[08:34] <Vaizki> you should insulate a bit more over there...
[08:35] <Vaizki> a normal finnish garage needs like a 200W heater to keep warm :P
[08:35] <Vaizki> I can keep my whole house warm with one fireplace
[08:36] <Vaizki> which is a german engineered convection thingy that produces about 7kW of heat.. :)
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[08:37] <gonzo_> single skin prefab concrete garage, with extensions in all but one direction. (including up)
[08:37] <gonzo_> some insulated, some noty
[08:37] <gonzo_> just an excuse to have a fire going
[08:38] <Vaizki> http://www.spartherm.com/en/products/fireplace-inserts/product/show/varia-2rh/
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[08:39] <Vaizki> I have that one. Very good. IMO.
[08:39] <la3eq> frequency of KF5KMP-2 please
[08:40] <gonzo_> I bet it never stays as cleen as that in real use!
[08:40] <gonzo_> clean
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[08:41] <Vaizki> well it stays quite clean as long as you burn clean.. hot enough etc.
[08:41] <Vaizki> if it soots up, the window opens out nicely and easy to scrub (I use ash from the fireplace itself to scrub, works fine)
[08:41] <AndyEsser> !dial KF5KMP-2
[08:41] <SpacenearUS> 03AndyEsser: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[08:42] <la3eq> !dial KF5KMP-2
[08:42] <SpacenearUS> 03la3eq: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[08:42] <AndyEsser> have the actual callsign?
[08:42] <AndyEsser> !dial KF5KMP-5
[08:42] <SpacenearUS> 03AndyEsser: 03KF5KMP-5 is over APRS. 144.8Mhz EU/Russia/Africa, 144.39Mhz USA, 144.64Mhz China
[08:42] <la3eq> tnx
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[09:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LCARS_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LCARS_chase
[09:21] <richardeoin> x-f evilroots: UBSEDS18 is on 434.612 MHz (except in China, 434 MHz isn't ISM there) https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/oINAObA2gVk
[09:21] <richardeoin> runs from sunrise +2 hours until sunset, no battery on this one :(
[09:22] <fsphil> any reason for the delay on sunrise?
[09:22] <fsphil> just a higher startup voltage needed?
[09:23] <Vaizki> I'm assuming initial lock of the gps is too power hungry to run on a trickle
[09:23] <Vaizki> especially if there no battery at all - i.e. ephemeris etc needs to be received uninterrupted
[09:24] <richardeoin> yup pretty much
[09:24] <fsphil> ah yes that too
[09:25] <fsphil> sounds like me in the mornings
[09:25] <mfa298> that's the time having something on the ublox backup power connection might be useful.
[09:25] <Vaizki> yea first fix from cold start is always tough :)
[09:25] <richardeoin> it was meant to charge the supercap for a bit, so it could then get the first fix interrupted
[09:26] <richardeoin> but the code for that got clobbered by a tangle of preprocessor switches, and I didn't get round to fixing before launch
[09:27] <richardeoin> *first fix uninterrupted
[09:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
[09:29] <Vaizki> richardeoin, maybe you could use something like this as a gps data retaining battery? http://www.digikey.fi/product-search/en/battery-products/batteries-non-rechargeable-primary/394467?k=&pkeyword=&pv46=7495&FV=fff40006%2Cfff804e3%2C38009e&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=250
[09:29] <Vaizki> oops sorry monster url
[09:33] <richardeoin> ohh that's cute, only 0.5g
[09:34] <richardeoin> MAX-8C has a backup current of 100uA, so wouldlast 250 hours of backup..
[09:37] <Vaizki> I might be wrong but I think the max-8c drains the backup battery even when there is "primary" power
[09:37] <richardeoin> mm fair enough
[09:38] <richardeoin> ubseds15 worked almost continously, planning fly another one of that design at some point
[09:40] <richardeoin> that battery might be useful for pico-pi (our tracker with raspberry pi and camera)
[09:40] <richardeoin> that uses a MAX-8Q with 15uA typ backup
[09:44] <Vaizki> hmmh only spec'd to -20
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[10:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5KMP-3 after 034 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5KMP-3
[10:52] <Vaizki> whee another one buzzes by the southern tip of hokkaido
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[10:54] <ryan_in> What is the best antenna for a base station
[10:55] <Vaizki> base station for what? 70cm ISM?
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[10:56] <Vaizki> base station for what? 70cm ISM?
[10:56] <ryan_in_> Sorry internet just crashed. 70cm for tracking a balloon]
[10:57] <SA6BSS-Mike> yagi with rotator is best but usuly not requerd, most uses a vertical omnidirection antenna
[10:58] <SA6BSS-Mike> look at the x50 or x300
[10:58] <ryan_in_> Okay thanks. We have entered the boscombe down balloon challenge so need a base station so the balloon data is always being uploaded to habhub
[10:59] <Vaizki> well I would assume you'd be more in need of a car magmount antenna + portable yagi then?
[10:59] <Vaizki> SA6BSS-Mike's suggestions are for a fixed installation base station
[11:00] <ryan_in_> The rules are it has to constantly be on the map, and last time we did a launch we kept losing 3g signal
[11:00] <SA6BSS-Mike> yeah as in base station :) but reading on the boscone site its says WE CHALLENGE LOCAL SCHOOLS TO DESIGN, BUILD AND LAUNCH A PAYLOAD AND BALLOON ?TO TRAVEL HIGHER, FURTHER AND LONGER THAN ANYONE ELSE.
[11:01] <SA6BSS-Mike> if u going with further and longer a yagi is requierd, so are u going up/down or a floater?
[11:01] <ryan_in_> We will still have a chase car with yagi. We had them come and do a talk, and they say you should expect to lose it. Which we are definately not
[11:01] <garymortimer> I have an X50 but have also had great success with a home brew slim jim http://www.w4cll.com/m0ukd.htm
[11:02] <ryan_in_> We havent decided what target we are aiming for yet. But as most schools will aim for altitude, we will probably aim for distance or duration
[11:02] <craag> ryan_in_: Where are you based out of interest? I'm part of the Southampton University team involved with the challenge.
[11:02] <garymortimer> Plenty of UK folks should be helping you with the tracking. When chasing I just use the antenna on my receiver.
[11:03] <Vaizki> garymortimer, I love it how it gives me a length... 505.77367205542726mm
[11:03] <garymortimer> don't forget the 2726
[11:03] <ryan_in_> We are based in Ledbury. Only joined the challenge 2 weeks ago!
[11:04] <garymortimer> A trip to Dave might be in order them ;-)
[11:04] <garymortimer> He is not far away
[11:04] <craag> A nice launch location :)
[11:04] <ryan_in_> Luckily I launched my own balloon a few weeks ago, so have some practice. He is near Ross isnt he?
[11:04] <garymortimer> LCARs car on the map right now
[11:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DK0PT-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK0PT-11
[11:05] <ryan_in_> Ah right. We are planning on using a PITS board and stripping all the components we dont need. I know it will be heavy, but I have no expereince in coding or building your own tracker
[11:07] <AndyEsser> great time to learn :)
[11:07] <garymortimer> Making an NTX or LoRa based one is pretty simple, the LoRa super easy in fact. So easy I can do it!
[11:07] <garymortimer> You won't have as many folks tracking though
[11:08] <garymortimer> (with LoRa)
[11:09] <ryan_in_> Ah ok. Bear in mind I am a sixth form student, with little time and no experience with computing. But I definately want to attempt it next year!
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[11:18] <gonzo_> the challenge rules require rtty I believe
[11:18] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[11:20] <daveake> This challenge is limited to exempt flights isn't it?
[11:21] <mattbrejza> yes
[11:22] <daveake> OK, so 10km or so altitude with a PITS on it
[11:23] <daveake> Needs something lighter (less power hungry mainly) if trying for a better max alt
[11:23] <gonzo_> I believe so, so weighjt will be am issue
[11:24] <fsphil> what's the challange?
[11:24] <gonzo_> three prizes, max alt, mas time and max distance
[11:24] <gonzo_> go with a light payload and try to float, and you can go for two prizes
[11:25] <gonzo_> or assume others will be doing that and go for max alt, which may be a smaller number of com petitors?
[11:26] <daveake> I have a pi zero payload which is 40g inc 3 AAAs; that's about as light as you'd get with a Pi
[11:26] <daveake> though floating would be a bad idea.
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[11:27] <gonzo_> whay is that?
[11:27] <daveake> not enough run time for a float
[11:28] <daveake> you'd have to do what Richard did with solar and powering the pi off
[11:28] <gonzo_> ah
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[11:28] <gonzo_> one of the habuino designs then?
[11:28] <daveake> heavier than the pi zero :/
[11:29] <gonzo_> really?! Longer run time though I would hope?
[11:29] <daveake> without going custom pcb, an arduino mini pro + ntx2 + ublox breakout is pretty light
[11:29] <daveake> yes
[11:30] <daveake> habduino is 59g + batts
[11:30] <gonzo_> I think my little pic tracker has a life of about 10hrs on 3xAAA. And that is mostly the NTX and GPS
[11:31] <gonzo_> a pi zero with AA batts would be close on that
[11:32] <gonzo_> (guessing, don't have any figuires to hand)
[11:32] <daveake> yeah power saving on the ublox would help a lot
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[11:33] <daveake> pi zero + ublox breakout + rfm98 is 19g
[11:33] <gonzo_> not lokkmed into that. As 3xaaa was enough for me and could not see much that I could save to reduce number of batts
[11:34] <gonzo_> switcher psu efficiencies pretty much eat any gain
[11:34] <gonzo_> so I went for a ldo linear eventually
[11:34] <gonzo_> and stayed at 3v3 as that was needed for the NTX
[11:34] <adamgreig> you went to an ldo because of poor dcdc efficiencies?
[11:36] <gonzo_> it was 6 of one and 0.5 dozen of 'tother
[11:36] <gonzo_> so went ldo for simplicity
[11:36] <gonzo_> running 3v3, I couldn't use two cells,
[11:37] <gonzo_> so would have needed to use a single cell, and that complicated things more
[11:38] <rharrison> I have a new tracker comming 22mmx42mm @~ 25g including power possibly down to 15g with latest hack
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[12:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03default_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=default_chase
[12:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DEON HANSEN_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DEON%20HANSEN_chase
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[12:43] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
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[13:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SHOGUN_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SHOGUN_chase
[13:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG5BFY-13 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5BFY-13
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[13:22] <Ian_> Just seen your question earlier AndyEsser. Things to watch (more for shop maybe) small crack in a big window. Is dismissed by the agent. But is your liability when you try to hand property back in a few years time - expensive mistake. Have and minor defects recorded and insist that they are repaired. Weasel words are cheap and people change (different people)
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> High resolution pictures are very cheap these days.
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> Take pictures and video of every square milimeter of the property, inside and out, in all cupboards/...
[13:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SB after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SB
[13:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RELAY1 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RELAY1
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[13:50] <abu> Hi all
[13:53] <abu> I've recently purchased a 2m/70cm colinear base antenna which I believe has come with a PL259 Plug, I'm looking to get some low loss westflex wf130 coax as I have to run it quite far. How do I go about connecting a SMA connector to the end so I can attach it to my Airspy mini SDR?
[13:53] <abu> Thanks
[13:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Terminate the Westflex in a "N" Type and then use an adaptor from N to SMA
[13:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> You can get large diameter SMA plugs but very expensive compared to an aadaptor
[13:54] <Vaizki> or a short pigtail with N-to-SMA
[13:55] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> indeed
[13:55] <Vaizki> airspy mini on the end of a stiff cable is asking for trouble. or use a USB extension lead to get some freedom of movement
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[13:58] <abu> so N type on either end of the westflex, one going in to the antenna, one going to a smaller n to SMA then in to the airspy?
[13:59] <Vaizki> Airspy(SMA) <--> SMA-to-N(female) <--> N(male)---westflex--PL259 <--> Antenna
[13:59] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Is the aerial a PL259 or SO259 plug or socket put the opposite on the end of the Westflex, then the other end of Westfle use an N and adapt or pigtail down to SMA
[14:00] <adamgreig> or put N on both ends of the westflex
[14:00] <abu> I think it is a PL259 is plug
[14:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> not good if the aerial is a SO259 socket on the end!
[14:00] <adamgreig> not much point but it's a lot nicer :P
[14:00] <adamgreig> what antenna did you get?
[14:00] <Vaizki> typically it's easy to find N-female bulkhead connectors with a short coax pigrail and SMA-male
[14:01] <Vaizki> pigtail even :)
[14:01] <Vaizki> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/N-female-bulkhead-to-SMA-male-plug-Pigtail-Cable-RG316-/150599806595?hash=item231072ae83:g:TdQAAMXQwKdRdl1-
[14:01] <Vaizki> like that
[14:02] <Vaizki> oh and watch out for RP-SMA.. do not buy those. they are for wifi antennas.
[14:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NG2Q-5 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NG2Q-5
[14:03] <Vaizki> they will fit mechanically but you end up with no connection or bent pins so avoid them like the plague. and when you receive your SMAs, check that they didn't ship you RP-SMA...
[14:04] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> RP being Reverse Polarity ...
[14:05] <gonzo_> I think westflex needs special connectors (centre conductor is an odd size). So get them from Westlakes along with the coax
[14:06] <gonzo_> then use adaptors/pigtail at the radio end
[14:07] <abu> brilliant thanks, I bought the base antenna from ebay through a recommendation on here. its a 2m/70cm colinear base antenna but my limited knowledge of this means I cant be anymore specific!
[14:07] <Vaizki> sounds like a X50?
[14:08] <Vaizki> which is also available with N connectors instead of UHF (SO259)
[14:08] <Geoff-G8DHE-M>  assume you mean wf103 not wf130 ? http://www.whwestlake.co.uk/westlake-pdf/WF103.pdf
[14:10] <abu> it looks like an x50, but seems to have 6 radials(?) at the bottom rather than three?
[14:10] <abu> yes I do mean wf103, sorry
[14:11] <Vaizki> anyway, PL/SO259 connections are not weatherproof so get some self-vulcanizing tape also. and many of those are not uv-proof so get some uv-proof tape too :)
[14:11] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> They all look similar, but normally a socket on the end rather than a plug, unless its just a cable tail they have fitted ?
[14:12] <gonzo_> the x50 type antennas usually have the connector shrouded in the base section, so it's out of the UV
[14:12] <gonzo_> usually called self-amagamating tape in the uk
[14:12] <Vaizki> oh right yes
[14:12] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> But always check the connector sizes on the NType plug/sockets as they come in a various sizes some only a fraction of a mil different on the inner pin
[14:13] <Vaizki> gonzo_: thanks forgot that name for the tape.. :)
[14:15] <abu> yes the antenna itself has a socket, but it came with what looks like a pl259 connector to put on the coax. Would an N male work also?
[14:15] <gonzo_> Geoff-G8DHE-M, have seen 50R and 75R N types. But not seen different pin sizes for 50R
[14:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Use an N much better
[14:15] <gonzo_> no, if it;s an so239, you need the mating pl259
[14:15] <Vaizki> umm picture of socket needed to confirm...
[14:15] <adamgreig> but the PL259 it came with probably won't fit WF103
[14:16] <abu> can I put a picture on here?
[14:16] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> BNC come in 50/75 variety for video, N are always 50 Ohm, but inner/outer cable size will vary for the co-ax to be connecteed - the pin outer diameter always the same
[14:16] <adamgreig> upload to www.imgur.com
[14:16] <gonzo_> probably so. You need the special PL259 from westalkes for that westflex
[14:16] <gonzo_> Geoff-G8DHE-M, rare, but I have seen 75R N types
[14:17] <abu> will westlake put together a cable for me if I tell them my requirements?
[14:17] <gonzo_> unfortunatly the thread on a PL259 is the same as an N type, leading to a few smashed connectors over the years
[14:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Westflex might do but at a price!
[14:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yup 75 Ohm N's do exist Ugrh ..... https://www.pasternack.com/75-ohm-n-connectors-category.aspx
[14:18] <aadamson> gonzo_, and worse the pin size on a 75 ohm N is larger than a 50 ohm so you will spread out the other gender or back the connector (been there have the t-shirt - damn hamfests)
[14:18] <gonzo_> do you have any local frields who could help install the connectors, if you are not confident doing it yourself?
[14:19] <aadamson> s/back/break
[14:19] <abu> not really, I can ask around, there may be someone.
[14:20] <gonzo_> I've seen many broken N felames, because the plugs used non captive pins and they have grown out of the plug (or been badly make up).
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[14:20] <gonzo_> any local hams (but ideally those playing with UHF or microwave comms)
[14:21] <gonzo_> the opnes playing HF have rarely ever seen proper connectors
[14:22] <gonzo_> (You can see, that cables and connectors are an emotive subject here!)
[14:23] <abu> haha, thanks for all your help. I thin I'm going to have to look in to it a bit more as there's a lot one technical terms i'm not sure of and dont want to be confused!
[14:23] <abu> thanks everyone
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[15:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DC2EH-12 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-12
[15:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC3DDW-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC3DDW-11
[15:30] <Ian_> If you have your colinear, then there may well be some identification upon it, if it is from a leading brand such as Diamond or Watson etc.
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[15:31] <Ian_> The odds of getting other than a 50 ohm connector on a colinear is exceedingly remote.
[15:31] <Ian_> The photo of the antenna socket is essential.
[15:34] <Ian_> If it is an SO239 (Vaizki please note, not SO259) then one with a gland fitting, which is like the standard (not crimp) BNC or N-type plug is what you want to obviate moisture ingress. Better than self amalgimating tape.
[15:35] <Ian_> Yes, Westflex has a thicker centre conductor and so use one of their series of plugs, enquiring after a gland type if it's a PL259 that you need.
[15:35] <Ian_> A little extra cost on your connector is better than £1 saved and a total cock up
[15:36] <Ian_> I really must get to the party early or check that the lucky person is still lin the room :)
[15:36] <Ian_> before dispensing wisdon
[15:38] <Vaizki> oops :) oh and I'd still tape over after connecting the antenna, water might seep in through the threads between plug & socket
[15:38] <Vaizki> it did on my boat...
[15:39] <Ian_> Vaizki, I can't agree with you more about needing more insulation. Forty years ago it was standard for sarking felt under roof tiles in Scotland, but not in England and Wales. Eventually it was adopted as standard and then decades later insulation started to become standard . . .
[15:39] <Ian_> Slow learners :)
[15:41] <Ian_> Usually the colinear's base shroud offers a fair degree of protection. I guess that a boat is somewhat more vulnerable to airborne moisture and with a salt content it will be hygroscopic and attract moisture.
[15:42] <Ian_> Sounds like a case for WD40 [or maybe 41 :) ]
[15:43] <Vaizki> well it was not my install so not sure how exactly it was done 24 years ago. but now it's done right..
[15:43] <Ian_> PS Bulkhead mounting and a thin pigtail sounds ideal.
[15:44] <Ian_> Cables that waggle equipment around never really appeal to me. I guess you might expect some moisture after 24 years .. .
[15:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG5BFY-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5BFY-12
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[15:54] Nick change: jan64_ -> jan64
[15:54] <Vaizki> not only that but the cable had been run througj a tight spot and then a screw driven through it..
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[16:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG5BFY-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5BFY-11
[16:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NM5SS-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NM5SS-11
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[16:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WIDE2-1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WIDE2-1
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[16:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG5BFY-10 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5BFY-10
[16:17] <Ian_> Not bad that it lasted as long as it did then. I don't suppose the screw did much for a favourable SWR
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[16:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS18 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS18
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[17:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG5BFY-7 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5BFY-7
[17:15] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N4XWC-1 after 0318 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
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[17:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NM5SS-9 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NM5SS-9
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[18:01] <AndyEsser> well that was productive :)
[18:12] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03S-18 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-18
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[18:37] <mfa298> AndyEsser: expensive meeting then :)
[18:38] <AndyEsser> actually... no :P
[18:39] <AndyEsser> saw the unit in St. Asaph
[18:39] <AndyEsser> thought it was perfect
[18:39] <AndyEsser> then went over to bangor and met with the Council
[18:39] <AndyEsser> told them I wanted to build and test rocket engines there and they didn't bat an eyelid
[18:39] <AndyEsser> told me they could give me space in Parc Menai that could scale as I need, cheaper than St. Asaph and for a 1 month rolling lease
[18:39] <AndyEsser> with business support services provided
[18:40] <AndyEsser> and would put me in touch with some similar companies to mine, and projects that need electronics/software work
[18:40] <AndyEsser> and would possibly see if they can work with the CAA to get NOTAM clearances quicker than 28 days
[18:41] Nick change: Steffann -> Steffanx
[18:44] <mfa298> wow, that's very helpful from them
[18:45] <mfa298> I'd have thought most places would at least start talking risk assesments etc. when you say build rocket engines to them.
[18:47] <AndyEsser> well they're the council that has one of the 5 potential sites for the UK spaceport proposal
[18:47] <AndyEsser> so they're big into trying to attract Aerospace SMEs
[18:47] <mfa298> I suppose that would help.
[18:48] <AndyEsser> so basically... very helpful :)
[18:48] <AndyEsser> and the guy showed me some possible funds to buy capital equipment, deferring the some of the requirements for 12-18 months
[18:48] <mfa298> I'd guess they've been trained not to scare potential businesses off by saying the phrases that might occur on a bullshit bingo card.
[18:49] <AndyEsser> Hahaha "bullshit bingo", I love it
[18:50] <fsphil> a helpful local council? unpossible
[18:51] <mfa298> AndyEsser: always useful for those boring meetings http://www.bullshitbingo.net/cards/bullshit/
[18:51] <AndyEsser> mfa298: Ta
[18:51] <AndyEsser> fsphil: I know right!
[18:52] <M0RJX> loving this http://i.imgur.com/3vRnsWX.jpg
[18:58] <edmoore> AndyEsser: noise?
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[19:00] <AndyEsser> edmoore: hmm?
[19:01] <edmoore> regulations thereof
[19:01] <edmoore> for testing engines
[19:01] <AndyEsser> ah gotch, sorry
[19:01] <AndyEsser> well test stand stuff would need to be planned down the line - but there are places within the area where it would possibe
[19:01] <AndyEsser> either places such as the RAF bases (which again they can assist with)
[19:02] <AndyEsser> or disused quarries that contain the sound, and err... shrapnel in the case of a RUD
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[19:02] <edmoore> that'd be great if you had a quarry
[19:02] <edmoore> would focus most of the sound up
[19:02] <AndyEsser> lots of old quarries in northern wales
[19:04] <AndyEsser> but I did make the point that the rocket stuff is a "down the line" sort of thing
[19:04] <AndyEsser> other activities and revenue generation are basically there to support the R&D activities
[19:05] <edmoore> you can probably test a wee biprop yourself without needing a quarry
[19:05] <edmoore> like a homemade one just to check you can maths
[19:05] <AndyEsser> that'd be an important check :P
[19:06] <AndyEsser> in the meantime there are projects working with the hydroelectric projects nearby
[19:06] <AndyEsser> the big £12m tidal power plant that's just been given the go ahead
[19:06] <AndyEsser> farmers who want GPS tracking collars for 1000's of sheep etc
[19:07] <edmoore> oh that sounds good
[19:07] <edmoore> yeah there must be a million embedded sensor network things about the place
[19:07] <AndyEsser> I pointed out I basically had the prototype for one of those collars sat on my desk at home, wouldn't take long to get a prototype batch together
[19:07] <fsphil> netherd
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[19:08] <AndyEsser> SheepTrak
[19:08] <edmoore> each one could have a little webpage to monitor its status
[19:08] <edmoore> a EWE-R-L
[19:08] <AndyEsser> o god
[19:08] <AndyEsser> *facepalm*
[19:08] <edmoore> hopefully the avr has enough Ram
[19:09] <AndyEsser> ....
[19:11] <edmoore> the webpage stack could be Linux-Apache-MySQL-Brainfuck
[19:12] <fsphil> you're really fleecing this
[19:12] <jcoxon> oh Ewe guys
[19:14] <edmoore> shear good luck
[19:14] <edmoore> maybe we should baaaaa puns in this channel
[19:14] <fsphil> wool anyone notice?
[19:25] <AndyEsser> And now that's over...
[19:25] <AndyEsser> so yes, productive day I think :)
[19:30] <aadamson> Upu, ping - PM
[19:30] <Hiena> Hmmm, guys. Anybody has an idea for a cheap, mechanicaly stable catalyst for hydrogen peroxide? I'm working on a small hybrid (steam/liquid) rocket engine, with a heated catalyst plate, but my copper-oxide plates not stable enough.
[19:31] <adamgreig> hah
[19:31] <adamgreig> you should join arocket
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[19:55] <edmoore> i have no idea about gopros and stuff anymore, there are so many. What can i get (2nd hand fine) that's waterproof and body/headband mountable for about £150?
[19:57] <daveake> For new, Gitup Git2 is good @ £116 including a selfie stick (I know you want one) and loads of fixin's
[19:57] <jcoxon> yeah i'd almost say its better to not go with gopro
[19:58] <jcoxon> there are now many more on the market
[19:58] <daveake> More options in the firmware, and the only cameras I've had lock up or play silly buggers are Gopros
[20:03] <edmoore> ok ta
[20:03] <edmoore> and it's as if you read my mind on the selfie stick
[20:03] <russss> the gitup ones are decent, we got some for EMF timelapses
[20:03] <russss> they have amazing battery/memory card life in timelapse mode
[20:04] <edmoore> thanks, looks good
[20:07] <edmoore> lots of good reviews
[20:07] <edmoore> will do it
[20:07] <edmoore> ta
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[20:57] <marcelk_> hi
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[21:17] <marcelk_> how to approve a new flight again? I made a document for ALMA-3 : a769b1deb32573f34ac9b39a93c568f6
[21:18] <Rebounder> try #habhub
[21:21] <marcelk_> thx
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[23:00] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KJ4TDM-1 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ4TDM-1
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[23:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[00:00] --- Wed Oct 5 2016