highaltitude.log.20160923

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[03:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 037203008757_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=7203008757_chase
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[06:13] <AndyEsser> morning
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[06:43] <AndyEsser> gah!!
[06:43] <AndyEsser> craag: BATC are on my shit list now
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[07:07] <cm13g09> Oh dear AndyEsser
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[07:38] <AndyEsser> cm13g09: they just sent my password in plaintext to me in an email, next to my username
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[07:42] <mfa298> ah, joining all the other places that should know better
[07:43] <mfa298> Im starting to think the best system is to signup with a crap password then change it to something after (and hope they don't email out password changes or store it in plain text)
[07:50] <nick_> If your password is unique and random then they're only screwing up your security on their system at least.
[07:55] <AndyEsser> nick_: still shouldn't be done
[07:55] <nick_> Yeah
[07:55] <AndyEsser> mfa298: suspect they'll store it in plain text, and be "heplful" by emailing it to you as well
[07:55] <nick_> But it's most dangerous for people who reuse passwords (which apparently is most people).
[07:58] <nick_> I hope that soon some physical device will also be required.
[07:58] <nick_> Although, for random old sites it'll not get used.
[07:58] <nick_> Just got to hope that the crappy old ones are accounts where security isn't really necessary.
[08:05] <mfa298> I've seen places that email the password and say it's hashed in the db so I'd hope it's hashed (can't remember about batc)
[08:06] <mfa298> obviouly such code it written by people that fell asleep partway though web security 101
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[08:12] <nick_> You think they took any classes on writing websites?
[08:15] <fsphil> bunch of yahoos
[08:15] <fsphil> actually, I take that back. yahoo passwords where hashed :)
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[08:15] <mfa298> I've not had any web dev classes and know more than some of these places
[08:16] <abu> Hi all, apologies as I am a beginner and will probably ask some daft questions!
[08:17] <mfa298> abu: don't worry about daft questions, it better to ask them rather than assume the wrong thing.
[08:17] <fsphil> we've all asked some daft questions here
[08:19] <abu> I am looking to launch a HAB with a PITS board, I'm planning on tracking it with a SDR (airspy r2 or mini perhaps), could anyone help me with the antenna? Build instructions or somewhere to buy one? I'm looking at getting to 35000m, and am doing it with school students as part of the STEM club so I'd rather not lose the balloon! thanks
[08:19] <mfa298> !wiki payload_antenna
[08:19] <SpacenearUS> 03mfa298: Wiki page 03payload_antenna (guides) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payload_antenna
[08:19] <SpacenearUS> 03mfa298: Wiki page 03projects:picoatlas:picoatlasi - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas:picoatlasi?s[]=payload&amp;s[]=antenna
[08:20] <mfa298> top one is a guide for what to put on the balloon
[08:22] <abu> That's awesome thanks
[08:22] <abu> but what do i need to attach to the actual SDR dongle?
[08:23] <mfa298> for the chase car you probably want a magmount antenna.
[08:23] <mfa298> most use some sort of 2/70 amateur radio antenna
[08:24] <mfa298> yagi in the chase car might be useful as well for final position.
[08:24] <mfa298> depends abit on where you're likely to land
[08:25] <abu> I'm very sorry but where can I find a 2/70 amateur radio antenna?
[08:25] <mfa298> it's well worth tracking other flights in advance as well to get used to how it works
[08:25] <abu> good idea
[08:26] <mfa298> potentially ask if you can join someone on a chase or help them chase independantly.
[08:26] <abu> I must admit I was planning on tracking mainly from base and relaying the info to the chase car. do you think this is plausible?
[08:26] <daveake> No, chase car has to have a radio setup
[08:27] <daveake> More important than the base
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[08:27] <daveake> The most important positions you get are the last one before landing, and the position after landing
[08:27] <mfa298> the base station will only get the data until it goes below the horizon. that could be when the balloon is still 2-5km above the ground
[08:27] <daveake> Both of which are the job of the chase team
[08:28] <abu> ok thanks
[08:30] <abu> so to clarify, i'll need a SDR connected to a laptop at base with a 2/70 amateur antenna (does anyone know where I can get / build one of these?), plus an SDR or radio scanner for the chase car to find final position plus mobile antenna? I will have a SMS tracker as back up though I realise those are unreliable.
[08:31] <mfa298> for the baes station various verticales are popuar (often using the colinear design)
[08:31] <daveake> Most people use colinears e.g. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2m-70cm-Base-station-colinear-UK-supplier-/191963704425?hash=item2cb1edac69:g:v9gAAOSwDuJWuZ14
[08:31] <mfa298> things like the W-50 / X-50 mounted with a good view, and good coax between the antenna and radio.
[08:33] <mfa298> if it's a longer run of coax it may be worth looking at mounting something like the hab-amp near the antenna
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[08:33] <daveake> yeah get it as high as you reasonably can, but be aware that that might mean using a long stretch of coax cable it. Cheap coax though loses a lot of the signal, so if you have more than say 5m you need to be using good quality stuff
[08:34] <daveake> or, as mfa298 suggested, use an amplifier at the aerial then the coax makes a lot less difference
[08:35] <abu> I'll probably put it on the school roof and be connect directly to a laptop up there. would three stories up be sufficient?
[08:36] <mfa298> as a basic guide see what you can see from where you plan to mount it. if the view is obstructed by other buildings so will the signal from the balloon
[08:36] <daveake> What matters is having a good view of the horizon,
[08:37] <abu> The top of the building is definitely the tallest thing for miles around.
[08:37] <AndyEsser> abu: I use a Diamond X-50 from Radio World (http://www.radioworld.co.uk/diamond-x-50n_2m_70cm_fixed_station_vertical?query=diamond%20x50)
[08:38] <AndyEsser> with 10metres of RG213 (low loss) Coax
[08:38] <AndyEsser> this is good for the base station
[08:38] <AndyEsser> not suitable for the chase car
[08:38] <abu> thanks
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[08:39] <AndyEsser> As others have said, a magmount omni antenna is good
[08:39] <AndyEsser> and then a handheld yagi for direction finding if needs be
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[08:39] <amell> Yay. Just got back from a business trip abroad and my foundation certificate is here
[08:39] <abu> ok, I will probably go with the airspy mini SDR with the above antenna or the colinear antenna from ebay for the base station
[08:39] <amell> AndyEsser: you got your callsign?
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[08:41] <AndyEsser> err..
[08:41] <AndyEsser> need more time to respond!
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[08:42] <AndyEsser> up until recently I've used an RTL-SDR for my base station SDR, it's much cheaper and seems to be ok
[08:42] <AndyEsser> although having recently used an Airspy Mini at EMF, they're fantastic little bits of kit if you have the budget for more expensive gear
[08:42] <AndyEsser> amell: not yet
[08:42] <AndyEsser> suspect it might be home when I get back this afternoon
[08:43] <amell> Certificate arrived?
[08:43] <amell> I think mine came yesterday. Not sure.
[08:43] <amell> I guess I will waste most of today trying to choose a callsign
[08:44] <fsphil> just today?
[08:44] <fsphil> that's quick
[08:44] <amell> :)
[08:44] <AndyEsser> I got home to a note from royal mail last night saying there was a package that was too large for my letterbox to pick up
[08:44] <AndyEsser> but not expecting anything, so maybe that was it?
[08:44] <amell> That's probably it
[08:44] <AndyEsser> if it's an A4 size envelope?
[08:44] <amell> It's quite big.
[08:45] <amell> You must have a small letterbox. It says do not bend
[08:45] <amell> Yes A4 cardboard backed envelope
[08:45] <AndyEsser> hmm, I've had a4 (magazines and such) before
[08:45] <AndyEsser> ah well
[08:45] <AndyEsser> will find out tonight when I get back home
[08:45] <AndyEsser> leaving work at 3pm today
[08:45] <AndyEsser> yay
[08:46] <AndyEsser> then to figure out a callsign
[08:46] <craag> lol AndyEsser
[08:46] <amell> Got all weekend to agonise over that
[08:46] <AndyEsser> ready for tomorrow at CAT16 where I imagine everyone introduces themsef with their callsign
[08:46] <craag> it's terrible
[08:46] <craag> I know
[08:46] <AndyEsser> the website?
[08:46] <AndyEsser> at least it had HTTPS...
[08:46] <craag> everything website-ish
[08:46] <craag> I've seen the code - it gets soo much worse
[08:46] <AndyEsser> please don't tell me
[08:46] <AndyEsser> please
[08:47] <AndyEsser> just don't
[08:47] <AndyEsser> I can't take any more
[08:47] <AndyEsser> have to deal with too much shite at work
[08:47] <AndyEsser> Me: "Are we not going to bother hashing the users password when we submit the login form?"
[08:47] <AndyEsser> Head of Engineering: "But it's over HTTPS it doesn't matter"
[08:47] <AndyEsser> Me: *sigh*
[08:47] <craag> Hmm that's standard practice I thought (when via POST)?
[08:48] <craag> (not hashing client side)
[08:48] <AndyEsser> nowhere I've ever been does that
[08:48] <AndyEsser> nor would I do it myself
[08:48] <AndyEsser> my basic view is... never ever ever ever transmit anything in the plain
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[08:51] <abu> so in the chase car I will find a mag mount omni antenna (I've had a quick look but can't seem to see one that receives 434 MHz that the PITS board would be transmitting, can anyone recommend one?), also, can anyone recommend a decent scanner for the chase car? thanks, and sorry for my total lack of knowledge!
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[08:52] <daveake> Look for a "2/70" magmount
[08:52] <fsphil> https://cpc.farnell.com/watson/wsm-270/wsm-270-mini-mag-antenna/dp/IT44456
[08:52] <daveake> The 70 is 70cm which is the approx wavelength for 434MHz
[08:53] <craag> AndyEsser: Hmm it's not plain though, it's in SSL. And of course you'd then need to hash the password again for storage.
[08:53] <daveake> List of radios/scanners here https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[08:53] <craag> Anyway can have this discussion post- my relevant talk tomorrow ;)
[08:54] <fsphil> yes hasing client side is probably pointless. just require https.
[08:56] <AndyEsser> you're both assuming that https in fallible
[08:56] <AndyEsser> but yes craag - over a beer tomorrow instead
[08:56] <craag> :)
[08:56] <AndyEsser> also assuming it's HTTPs end-to-end
[08:56] <fsphil> https is less likely to fail than anything I could cobble together
[08:57] <craag> also all you're doing is transforming the password, If I sniff that hash, I can just replay it to log in, exactly like I would with the plaintext
[08:57] <AndyEsser> yes - but as noted above, users use the same password everywhere
[08:57] <AndyEsser> by hashing it, you're only able to use it inn places that hash the same way
[08:57] <AndyEsser> rather than Password1234
[08:58] <AndyEsser> I need new batteries in my keyboard....
[08:58] <craag> so it protects them for other sites (assuming a secure hash!) but not yours...
[08:58] <amell> I agree with craag - SSL is all you need
[08:58] <fsphil> I banned any password that contains the word password
[08:58] Action: AndyEsser sits in the corner and sulks
[09:00] <abu> thanks. another stupid question I'm afraid. with the mag mount antenna attached to a SDR. Would I need an internet connect for my laptop in the chase car?
[09:00] <fsphil> SSL isn't usually the weakness, it's the code running the website :)
[09:00] <fsphil> abu: ideally yes
[09:00] <fsphil> the online map and the live predictions can be very useful
[09:00] <AndyEsser> and IRC
[09:01] <AndyEsser> craag: Dave Crump a relation?
[09:01] <abu> ok, it shouldn't be an issue to connect my phone as a mobile hot spot
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[09:02] <craag> AndyEsser: father :)
[09:04] <AndyEsser> ah
[09:06] <AndyEsser> what time are you getting there tomorrow?
[09:08] <craag> I'm heading up there this evening, will be at the venue at 9am to set up streaming kit
[09:10] <amell> What is this event?
[09:10] <abu> thank you all for your help, I've just two more questions. where can I find a handheld yagi? and do you think I need to attach a radar reflector to the balloon?
[09:10] <craag> BATC CAT16 at RAF Cosford this weekend amell
[09:11] <craag> http://www.batc.org.uk/convention.html
[09:11] <amell> Cosford museum is awesome and free
[09:12] <craag> yes am looking forward to looking around :)
[09:12] <daveake> abu No you don't need a radar reflector
[09:12] <abu> thanks
[09:13] <daveake> for a Yagi this is the one I take on chases www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZL7-70-70cm-7-Element-Special-Yagi-Antenna-/302026286725?hash=item46522b6685:g:pjIAAOSwknJXxwi3
[09:14] <daveake> I think a few use this one http://www.arrowantennas.com/arrowii/440-3ii.html
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[09:19] <abu> thanks everyone, I'm sure I'll be back with more questions!
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[09:23] <fsphil> quite sensible questions
[09:27] <AndyEsser> hmm...
[09:27] <Vaizki> better than the usual "heavy on the questions, low on the sense"
[09:27] <AndyEsser> choosing a callsign is worse than naming a P
[09:27] <AndyEsser> PC*
[09:28] <Vaizki> here choosing a callsign even costs about as much as a pc
[09:28] <Vaizki> for "free" you get a random one
[09:34] <AndyEsser> craag: need a hand setting up/unloading at all?
[09:41] <AndyEsser> M6ZZZ
[09:41] Action: AndyEsser snoozes
[09:42] <craag> AndyEsser: Should be good thanks, we're rather overstaffed
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[09:43] <craag> (tends to happen when you're doing video at an amateur tv convention ;) )
[09:44] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:44] <AndyEsser> fair enough
[10:05] <edmoore> you could stand to the side and tell them your opinion about bits of equipment and M6 license holders though, AndyEsser
[10:05] <edmoore> if you want to get comfortable with your newfound ham status
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[10:09] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[10:16] <AndyEsser> edmoore: before that last sentence I thought you were suggesting that's what I was actually like :P
[10:16] <AndyEsser> I'm not sure I want to be known as a ham
[10:16] <AndyEsser> I have a license so I can play with more toys than just MTX's :)
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[10:18] <fsphil> it's odd being at a ham event, and seeing people refer to eachother by their callsigns rather than names
[10:19] <mfa298> I'd assume the people at BATC are more likely the better lot as they're actually interested in experimenting and doing technical things with their license.
[10:20] <AndyEsser> fsphil: similar things happen at game dev conferences/events I go to - it's all twitter handles
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[10:21] <mfa298> AndyEsser: now you can go for confusing both sets, use your twitter handle at ham events, and your call sign at game dev events
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[10:22] <AndyEsser> mfa298: ha
[10:22] <AndyEsser> good plan
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[10:31] <edmoore> it's interesting at the ukhas conf when i was eroomde to hear people have a stab at saying it
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[10:32] <edmoore> also dl-fldigi has some pretty special pronunciations
[10:32] <edmoore> fladgy-dadgy etc
[10:33] <fsphil> I always thought it was like a german forum website. eroom.de
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[10:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VE2WMG-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE2WMG-11
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[10:58] <amell> RSGB site is asking for "desired call sign suffix"
[10:58] <amell> whatever i put in there it rejects. What is it asking for?
[10:59] <amell> I guessed it might be the last three letters, but no.
[11:00] <Vaizki> something like /M for mobile?
[11:01] <Vaizki> oh desired call sign.. hmmh ok it would seem logical for that to be the letters in the end yes :)
[11:02] <fsphil> ofcom rarely make sense. does it accept the full version of the call, like M6xxx?
[11:02] <amell> It seems it is the three letters after all..
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[11:03] <amell> I wonder if I should scrape the site for all available call signs...
[11:03] <fsphil> what where you doing wrong?
[11:03] <amell> putting in ones that were taken. seems most are...
[11:03] <fsphil> ah
[11:03] <fsphil> yeah M6 has been around a while now
[11:03] <fsphil> 17576 possible callsigns, not that much really
[11:05] <Vaizki> M6BMW? :)
[11:08] <amell> m6poo is taken
[11:08] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[11:11] <edmoore> ORE was taken
[11:11] <edmoore> otherwise i'd have had M0ORE
[11:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Flyinhigh_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Flyinhigh_chase
[11:13] <amell> m6iro is available?
[11:13] <amell> any downsides?
[11:13] <gonzo_> if you are going to go up the licence food chain, then prob does not matter whgat calls you have for foundationa nd internediate
[11:13] <amell> seems phonetically clear
[11:15] <abu> Hi all, I wonder if you could tell me if this antenna http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2m-70cm-Base-station-colinear-UK-supplier-/191963704425?hash=item2cb1edac69:g:v9gAAOSwDuJWuZ14 is suitable for tracking a HAB with PITS board transmitting at 434 MHz, as a base antenna?
[11:15] <abu> thanks :)
[11:16] <edmoore> it is
[11:16] <amell> ok i have a callsign now.
[11:16] <amell> i picked one finally
[11:17] Nick change: amell -> m6mux
[11:17] <Bencls> What is it?
[11:18] <m6mux> this
[11:18] <abu> excellent thanks
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[11:18] Nick change: m6mux -> M6MUX
[11:18] <daveake> not bad :)
[11:18] <M6MUX> Hey AndyEsser, I'm so sorted now.
[11:19] <Bencls> ok mike 6 mike uniform xray
[11:19] <fsphil> nice
[11:19] <fsphil> you'll have to find M6DVB and have a chat about digital video
[11:20] <daveake> hah
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[11:20] <M6MUX> andyesser: you will find this useful - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/available_amateur_radio_call_sig#incoming-759317
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[11:22] <AndyEsser> M6MUX: ta
[11:22] <AndyEsser> going to take far too long to get used to that instead of amell
[11:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP5RZP-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
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[11:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ZERO - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ZERO
[11:28] <M6MUX> why on earth is the license document also in french and german...
[11:29] <mfa298> I think for the first page or 3 it's a cept requirement
[11:29] <mfa298> although that only really helps once you've got a full license
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[11:33] <AndyEsser> holy crap... the Windows Network Troubleshooter actually just fixed a problem...
[11:34] <edmoore> It told you to switch to linux?
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[11:44] <udat> M6MUX: maybe too late now but on callsign availability http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/foi/2016/july/Amateur_available_call_signs.xlsx
[11:46] <fsphil> still a few G's left
[11:46] <udat> yeah only recently realised they could still be allocated
[11:47] <fsphil> the website give me the option for a GI* when I got my full a while back
[11:48] <udat> after started talking to a GI3xx call thinking he must be 100+ years old, was his grandfathers call
[11:48] <AndyEsser> edmoore: funny
[11:54] <edmoore> i wonder if marconi found an angry ham when he first listened
[11:55] <edmoore> 'excuse me this frequency is in use, we're discussing hemorrhoid treatment'
[11:55] <AndyEsser> hamoorhoid* treatment
[11:55] <daveake> Suddenly, I want to make Macaroni, cheese and ham
[11:55] <udat> edmoore: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228440-700-dot-dash-diss-the-gentleman-hackers-1903-lulz/
[11:57] <edmoore> wonderful!
[11:57] <edmoore> thanks udat
[11:58] <udat> guess it's pre ham but the dude was angry :)
[12:00] <fsphil> lol
[12:01] <AndyEsser> that was a very interesting story
[12:01] <AndyEsser> ha
[12:04] <fsphil> "... in 1900, Maskelyne sent wireless messages between a ground station and a balloon 10 miles away"
[12:04] <fsphil> I bet that was more than 10mw
[12:06] <daveake> hah
[12:07] <daveake> "we could make money from this"
[12:07] <daveake> "$$INFACT"
[12:07] <daveake> and there the ukhas format started
[12:07] <AndyEsser> ha
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[12:15] <AndyEsser> right, chosen an available callsign - hopefully it isn't taken in between this document being created and getting home
[12:19] <edmoore> what is it?
[12:20] <AndyEsser> M6NSF
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[12:21] <edmoore> nice
[12:22] <mfa298> looking at that spreadsheet: interestting small selection of g's and m1's. I wonder if that's ones that were active and have been left to lapse.
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[12:27] <udat> guess they don't let you swap ? hate mine
[12:27] <abu> Hi again everyone, what type of coax would I need if it was to be longer than 5m. Thanks
[12:28] <abu> worried about losing signal
[12:29] <mfa298> how big is your budget ?
[12:30] <mfa298> RG213 is probably a decent starting point, after that probably westflex 103 or aircell
[12:30] <abu> I'm working for a school so the budget isn't massive!
[12:31] <daveake> What length, roughly?
[12:32] <mfa298> you should be able to find loss figures for any decent coax, RG213 looks to be around 0.17dB/m at 450mhz, from that you can work out loss for a run of x meters. Then decide if that loss is acceptable
[12:32] <daveake> plenty of calculators around e.g. http://www.qsl.net/co8tw/Coax_Calculator.htm
[12:33] <abu> to do what I want to, potentially 15-20m. Though we could do shorter but it would involve sitting on the roof. which is a possibility
[12:35] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> You can guarantee it will be a nice dry day all day on the day of the flight ?
[12:37] <mfa298> for 20m rg213 would have around 3.4dB loss which might be acceptable. Westflex 103 is more like 1.5dB which most would probably think is acceptable (although that's a bit more fun to put the connectors onto and costs more for cable and connectors)
[12:37] <abu> Well we are in the UK so I assumed sunshine was a given!
[12:38] <daveake> Well, 20m of RG58 will cost ~£15, but the loss is 6dB so you'll receive 1/4 of the signal from the aerial. Which, to be honest, isn't that bad if your flight is fairly close to you
[12:38] <daveake> RG213 is half the loss but double the price
[12:38] <daveake> For a permanent installation the extra money is a good investment; for a 1-off, meh not so sure
[12:39] <mfa298> and for the money you save with rg58 you could buy a habamp (means the setup is limited to receiving on the 434MHz band though - which is all you need for balloon tracking)
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[12:40] <M6MUX> andyesser: M6NSF/W?
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[12:48] <AndyEsser> M6MUX: if you're intimating I'm in Wales, that'd be MW6NSF
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[12:49] <edmoore> i doubt he'd be so rude
[12:49] <M6MUX> I wouldnt intimate anything so NSFW
[12:49] <AndyEsser> ha... hadn't even picked up on it
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[12:57] <AndyEsser> just tried my noise cancelling headset that arrived...
[12:57] <AndyEsser> holy crap.. that was incredible
[12:57] <AndyEsser> the quiet was disorientating
[12:57] <edmoore> what did you get?
[12:57] <edmoore> i am tempted
[12:57] <edmoore> i work so much better in silence
[12:57] <AndyEsser> Bose A20 Aviation Headset
[12:58] <AndyEsser> suspect they have an equivalent without the aviation side of things
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[13:00] <edmoore> gosh not cheap
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[13:01] <AndyEsser> quite
[13:01] <Vaizki> well the quiet comfort ones are 1/3 of the price
[13:01] <Vaizki> QC35 etc
[13:02] <AndyEsser> 1/3 is the microphone
[13:02] <Vaizki> of course they are just headphones, not headsets
[13:02] <AndyEsser> and the last 1/3 is the "Aviation"
[13:02] <AndyEsser> :P
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[13:10] <M6MUX> 900 quid for a headset? feck.
[13:11] <fsphil> I have the bose QC ones, they get rid of the background machine noise here.
[13:11] <AndyEsser> ex VAT as it's a company expense
[13:11] <fsphil> it's not as good at reducing voice
[13:12] <AndyEsser> Yea, suspect they're designed to let human voice frequencies through so you can still talk
[13:12] <fsphil> there's a background hiss too, which I can't hear when playing music but if it's total silence you're after it might get annoying
[13:14] <Babs_> Afternoon everyone - is anyone able to approve my flightdoc on habhub please? Its the one just posted, got the permission through from DM today so it looks like we are all go
[13:14] <Babs_> Thanks
[13:21] <Vaizki> some noice canceling headphones give a feeling of pressure on the ears.. but the Bose ones are pretty much the best of the bunch I'd say
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[13:22] <fsphil> amazing for flying, though I bet AndyEsser's version is a good bit better than the QC
[13:23] <Vaizki> Bose Active EQ keeps the audio clear and distinct, whether youre listening to music or an important communication.
[13:23] <Vaizki> bohemian rhapsody in the cockpit
[13:24] <Vaizki> indeed looks like the A20 has it all.. much more bells and whistles
[13:25] <AndyEsser> one day I'll see what if my instructor will let me play music through them to test the auto cut-out and stuff
[13:31] <adamgreig> AndyEsser: bit late to this bandwagon but nobody hashes clientside :P
[13:31] <Ian_> Better asked later if you were to ask me. BTW both callsigns have a nice CW rythm too
[13:31] <adamgreig> if you're worried about SSL being broken you have bigger concerns. like how your hash algorithm is probably also broken as a result.
[13:32] <AndyEsser> "nobody"?
[13:32] <AndyEsser> You all have valid points
[13:32] <AndyEsser> I'm going to continue hashing clientside
[13:35] <adamgreig> i recommend googling "hashing client side" for some discussions
[13:36] <adamgreig> I think literally the only benefit is that if a) a user re-uses a password on your website _and_ b) your TLS traffic is being decrypted and sniffed then the sniffer can't reuse that password on someone else's website, probably
[13:37] <adamgreig> but if they can break the TLS they can almost-surely inject javascript in to the page, which i assume you're not verifying the integrity of, and have it just send the password directly
[13:37] <adamgreig> and in any event it adds no security to your own system, of course
[13:37] <adamgreig> and it breaks anyone without client side javascript turned on, for starters
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[13:39] <AndyEsser> people without client side js turned on won't be able to use any of my sites anyway
[13:39] <adamgreig> smarter might be something like, the server sends a seed, client picks a second seed, hashes password+seed1+seed2, server repeats the hash, then you don't even need TLS turned on!
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[13:40] <adamgreig> but it's now much more likely the mysterious adversary knows your hash than in the TLS case, and so you need to do a decent hashing algorithm on the client, which by definition will be much weaker than you can do on your server, assuming something sensible like pbkdf2
[13:40] <adamgreig> it's just kind of a wash
[13:41] <NormalGaussian> @adamgreig I dare not ask what horrors you are discussing...
[13:41] <adamgreig> the merits (or lack thereof) of clientside password hashing on websites
[13:41] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: as I said above - you all have valid points
[13:42] <AndyEsser> and I wasn't suggesting a tin-foil hat style "HTTPS is broken by the governments" type thing
[13:42] <AndyEsser> just that MITM attacks when you control the Access Point etc, are fairly trivial
[13:42] <adamgreig> are they?
[13:42] <AndyEsser> it just doesn't sit right with me sending plaintext stuff (in terms of the API call has it plaintext)
[13:42] <adamgreig> I mean, they're not, right
[13:43] <adamgreig> the only way you can break HTTPS is if you own the client device as well
[13:43] <AndyEsser> at my last job, the HTTPS connection terminated on the local proxy
[13:43] <adamgreig> at which point obviously nothing you do on your website helps
[13:43] <adamgreig> yep, sure, because the company installed its own certs on all the clients
[13:43] <AndyEsser> I have no guarantee that the outgoing connection then is valid
[13:43] <AndyEsser> with things like SSL Pinning and whatnot, you can kind of ensure stuff is pretty secure from your server end
[13:43] <AndyEsser> anyway, it's an academic discussion
[13:43] <AndyEsser> we're not Yahoo
[13:43] <AndyEsser> :P
[13:44] <adamgreig> alas
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[13:50] <NormalGaussian> Surely without implementing some form of certificate/authentication for your plaintext data 'encryption' you are no more secure than relying on HTTPS, and distributing any non-http based certificates is infeasible unless it is done over the web which renders it ineffective anyway?
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[13:51] <SpeedEvil> NormalGaussian: It depends if you have secure nodes.
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> One-time-pad works just fine
[13:52] <Ian_> :)
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[13:54] <NormalGaussian> Ah, good point. So now we need a mechanism for distributing said OTP's, I think using RFC1148 would be the ideal method.
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> 'lifetime' OTPs are just fine in some cases.
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[14:22] Nick change: SpeedEvil -> SpeedEvil1
[14:22] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[14:25] <adamgreig> NormalGaussian: yes agreed, I think it's a bad idea always
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[15:23] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-5 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-5
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[16:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K6RPT-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
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[16:51] Action: AndyEsser is now known as M6NSF
[16:51] <AndyEsser> wooo
[16:52] <edmoore> nice AndyEsser
[16:52] <edmoore> not safe for [fill in the gap]
[16:54] <AndyEsser> Pub? Pub
[16:54] <AndyEsser> :)
[16:54] <AndyEsser> although the house is a mess, so should probably tidy instead of going out drinking
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[17:03] <daveake> With your expensive hobbies, perhaps "Non Sufficient Funds" fits best ? :)
[17:03] <AndyEsser> haha
[17:03] <AndyEsser> yes
[17:03] <daveake> http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/NSF
[17:04] <AndyEsser> Near Space Frontiers
[17:04] <AndyEsser> or... "Not So Fast"
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[17:06] <AndyEsser> good lord the sound quality of these headphones is insane
[17:09] <mattbrejza> i still prefer suws' callsign of G3KMI - kilowatt minimum input
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[17:10] <AndyEsser> hmm... should test a phone call using headset
[17:10] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: that was one of our featured callsigns for the exam :)
[17:10] <AndyEsser> that one and craag's personal
[17:10] <mattbrejza> :)
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[17:23] <AndyEsser> guess I should hook the radio up in the car tomorrow and try and make use of my new privileges on the drive down
[17:26] <Ian_> Blue light QSO with Mr Plod impending :)
[17:28] <AndyEsser> erm... sure :P
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[17:32] <mfa298> call signs and generating acronyms form them was much more fun when they were (mostly) allocated rather than choosing what you want.
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[17:38] <Ian_> It did at least allow people to work out pretty much when someone was licenced, which was an interesting sport by itself.
[17:38] <Ian_> Just be careful AndyEsser, it's too easy to get unwanted attention and not guaranteed to end well.
[17:39] <AndyEsser> Ah, gotcha
[17:39] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> acronym on ham calls sm?dco thats Drinking Cognac Only
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[17:41] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> darn thats some acrony avalible for BSS :) Base Station System / British Sleep Society / Binary-Symmetric Source
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[18:42] <AndyEsser> do callsigns ever get shortened in amateur radio?
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[18:46] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> if you talking to a friend some changeover I fall back just to the last tree letters
[18:48] <adamgreig> but in general no, and the licence says you have to use your (full) callsign every so often for identing
[18:48] <adamgreig> M6RND is not the same as M0RND, etc
[18:48] <adamgreig> I recommend just getting a short callsign instead
[18:50] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> here in Sweden there is only one three letter combination so when you travel you can ad the correct area nr withot any confusion
[18:50] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> home qth I?m sa6bss, when I visiting my uncles Im sa7bss, if I got to stockholm I?m sa0bss
[18:55] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> I?m doing a comparison between the rsp and rtl-blog v3 dongle, with a filter inline of the v3 it on par with the rsp, one spot out of 10 the rsp get one db more in sn, thats so cool!
[18:55] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> I?m testing 7Mhz at the moment
[18:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N4XWC-1 after 0316 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
[18:59] OZ1SKY_Brian (~Brian@x1-6-8c-10-d4-ff-6d-62.cpe.webspeed.dk) joined #highaltitude.
[19:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[19:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Anyone here tracking the WSPR ballons?
[19:02] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> the fine thing with wspr is you track without knowing :)
[19:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Tjena. But how does it get to habhub?
[19:02] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> I will have a new try to get a wspr balloon up this sunday
[19:03] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> script to aprs.fi the imported to habhub
[19:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> is it automated in the WSPR software or?
[19:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> meaning WSPR software by K1JT
[19:04] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> nop, you have to run server and read the reports from wspr network , translete them and port them to aprs.fi
[19:04] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> there is some xls that can automate that
[19:05] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok was looking for some unattended way to run it
[19:05] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> you can read up here http://www.qrp-labs.com/ultimate3/ve3kcl-balloons/ve3kcl-s4.html#protocol
[19:07] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> David (Rebounder) have made a script, he is running so ve3kcl aka The S balloons get on the tracker, S-17 being the latest
[19:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes i read that, but it looks like a manuel way, not something that can run unattended
[19:07] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> nop its automated
[19:08] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> what I have understod , the xls takes data from the wspr database
[19:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> dont understand how a spreadsheet can take data from anything automatic
[19:09] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> and autmate transfers it to aprs.fi, ping Davi, he can explain more in detail how he is doing it
[19:10] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> I dont know ether, but someone said the xls can be made reading a databse and merge/transle and present it all automated
[19:11] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> I will investigate it further as Im about to launch some wspr balloons, but not fore the next one, have to read up a litte bit to
[19:11] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> :
[19:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok, done not seem very user frindly, meaning very few trackers as a result
[19:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> does
[19:13] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> few trackers?
[19:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes few people tracking them and uploading data
[19:14] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> all wspr rx station that is hearing the balon is reporting it, they dony care its ablloon as long as its a walid wspr sequnce
[19:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> im lost now, didnt you just say you need a spreadsheet and some way to upload it, to be able to track it?
[19:15] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> it usuly just the one person who launch the baloon that run the databse, its collect all the spots from all the network so there
[19:15] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> should realy just be one station ralayng it
[19:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> or do i just need the WSPR software and thats it?
[19:16] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> yes
[19:16] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> the person behind the ballooon collects the spots and upload them
[19:16] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok then no problem, just the one info i needed :-)
[19:16] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> :)
[19:17] <OZ1SKY_Brian> if i could just get it to decode something LOL
[19:17] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> you have never decoded wspr ?
[19:17] <OZ1SKY_Brian> waterfall got signals, but decode window nothing
[19:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> got WSPR 2.0 and WSJT-X 1.6 running, nothing decoded
[19:18] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> you have the signals in the 200hz window 1500hz + - 100hz
[19:19] <OZ1SKY_Brian> tuned to 14095.6 USB 2.4KHz filter
[19:19] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> that should do it
[19:20] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> and you see the signals around 1500hz ?
[19:20] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> and it says wspr2
[19:20] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> NOT wspr15
[19:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes WSPR-2
[19:21] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> http://imgur.com/a/0ypfG
[19:22] <OZ1SKY_Brian> correct
[19:22] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> here u can get the 1.7 RC , new releses every day http://qrz.vdonsk.ru/forum/index.php?topic=1666.0
[19:22] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> u have a screenshot1+
[19:22] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> ?
[19:23] <OZ1SKY_Brian> just s sec
[19:23] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> k
[19:23] Nick change: SA6BSS-Mike|2 -> SA6BSS-Mike
[19:24] <SA6BSS-Mike> operating system?
[19:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> http://postimg.org/image/8n285dlab/
[19:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> win10
[19:25] <SA6BSS-Mike> your clock is of
[19:26] <SA6BSS-Mike> time sync is crusial!
[19:26] <SA6BSS-Mike> using thsi http://www.timesynctool.com/
[19:26] <SA6BSS-Mike> back in 3 min
[19:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> does that work for win10?
[19:31] <SA6BSS-Mike> ofc
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[19:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> used to have D4 running, but i cant seem to get it working in win10
[19:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> but the time problem did helt, getting decodes now
[19:33] <SA6BSS-Mike> most using timesync or rsNTP tids sync
[19:34] <SA6BSS-Mike> great!!
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[19:34] <SA6BSS-Mike> if u want to see if u heard a balloon this page makes it easy to sort your spots http://wsprnet.org/olddb?mode=html&band=all&limit=70&findcall=&findreporter=&sort=date
[19:35] <OZ1SKY_Brian> does not look like it http://wsprnet.org/olddb?mode=html&band=all&limit=70&findcall=&findreporter=oz1sky&sort=date
[19:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes it dowed
[19:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> does :)
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[19:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ?
[19:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> ah, not a balloon u meean
[19:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> :-)
[19:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> most have gone to sleep now, only solar on most
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[19:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 7219km not bad
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[19:38] <OZ1SKY_Brian> brb
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[19:47] <OZ1SKY_Brian> decoding lots now, thanks, didnt see the clock problem
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[20:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VE2WMG-11 after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE2WMG-11
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[20:10] <Oddstr13> why can't wspr stuff sync time themselves, instead of relying on system time?
[20:10] <Chris__> 35818c1a9c0152502321617e06c03fb7
[20:11] <Chris__> 35818c1a9c0152502321617e06c03fb7
[20:11] <Oddstr13> #habhub probably
[20:11] <Chris__> oops I may have done this on the wrong page
[20:12] <Chris__> Yep sorry abou tthat oddstr13
[20:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh Babs_ is going for Luton it looks like! http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=93220a06f8c1ed4bf32e9c11eb603910e5740362
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[20:51] <Laurenceb__> looks like spacex composite pressure vessle exploded
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[21:06] <staylo> Guess they forgot to put enough cop in their copv
[21:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03kj4cqq-car - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=kj4cqq-car
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[23:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[23:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03JR8YLQ-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=JR8YLQ-12
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[23:51] <sir> hello
[23:52] sir (5003b903@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.3.185.3) left irc: Client Quit
[23:53] <Ian_> The UK is pretty much asleep at the moment where in the world are you from?
[23:53] <Ian_> + Hello
[23:54] <mfa298> he didn't hang around long for a reply
[23:55] <Ian_> He certainly didn't. I was just looking to see if he was still there
[23:55] <Ian_> As long as he wasn't waiting for me to say, "Hello Sir"
[00:00] --- Sat Sep 24 2016