highaltitude.log.20160920

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[00:41] <jarod> sonde monitor decoding, GPS
[00:42] <jarod> hardware L2413080
[00:42] <jarod> 2013-01-13:
[00:42] <jarod> http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=gpsAlmanacs - Current SEM Almanac - .al3, .txt <-- download .al3
[00:42] <jarod> Tools>GPS arm
[00:42] <jarod> i used to have, that still correct?
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[01:56] <Elwell> hey all - any LoRa users around, or am I better waiting for daveake to be awake?
[01:57] <Elwell> (interested in gateway design)
[01:57] <Ian_> Better waiting for more people being around generally - the UK sleeps
[01:58] <Elwell> yeah, being UTC+8 is a pain when I'm skiving off work
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[03:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RALT_C - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RALT_C
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[07:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03aa_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=aa_chase
[07:54] <PE2BZ> !flights
[07:54] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03UBSEDS18 434.612.5 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(64a5)
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[08:04] <AndyEsser> morning
[08:06] <fsphil> morrrrrn
[08:09] <daveake> forenoon
[08:10] <fsphil> happy post-yesterday
[08:11] <AndyEsser> I need to order some airspy's...
[08:11] <AndyEsser> -
[08:11] <AndyEsser> -'*
[08:11] <AndyEsser> gah... lag!!
[08:11] <fsphil> airspies
[08:12] <udat> going to have to order another airspy and spyverter
[08:12] <udat> had the spyverter for one day
[08:12] <udat> then misplaced it
[08:12] <udat> been two months, no idea where it went..
[08:15] <udat> found it!!
[08:15] <fsphil> hah
[08:15] <fsphil> now put some florescent duct tape around it
[08:15] <udat> i've searched that side of the office a bunch of times, it must have come back from wherever it went....
[08:16] <daveake> Well it does say "spy" on the label
[08:16] <fsphil> that's classified
[08:16] <udat> :)
[08:16] <AndyEsser> if I split my antenna feed into 2 airspy, i imagine each one will get half the power of the signal?
[08:16] <fsphil> it's all black. they should've called it the airninja. future product idea for prog
[08:17] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS18 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS18
[08:17] <fsphil> UK deflection field working well
[08:18] <udat> lol
[08:18] <udat> turned the radio on last night for it too :)
[08:19] <udat> well travelled now
[08:19] <fsphil> yeah, would be interesting to see what state the balloon is in
[08:22] <fsphil> probably covered in alien dust
[08:23] <AndyEsser> any recommendations on an amp to have on my antenna feed before splitting it into multiple devices?
[08:23] <daveake> That explains why these balloons always lose altitude during flight
[08:23] <daveake> oh
[08:23] <daveake> wideband amp?
[08:23] <Vaizki> AndyEsser, depends on the use?
[08:24] <fsphil> you might not need an amp
[08:24] <udat> AndyEsser: not sure on amp but yeah will have a reduction, i split here without an amp
[08:24] <AndyEsser> daveake: yea, whichi I guess is not ideal
[08:24] <daveake> No it isn'
[08:24] <daveake> t
[08:24] <AndyEsser> basically want to split the antenna, into 2 airspy
[08:24] <Vaizki> wideband lnas are not bad nowadaus...
[08:24] <AndyEsser> one will have a habamp
[08:24] <daveake> you could split then use filtered preamps
[08:25] <AndyEsser> specifically for balloon tracking on 434
[08:25] <Vaizki> yea just split before habamp especially if only a 3db split 1:2
[08:25] <AndyEsser> and then one for more general applications
[08:25] <fsphil> 3db loss isn't too bad. the noise coming in through the antenna will also be reduced by 3db
[08:26] <AndyEsser> ok, so a split immediately before the habamp
[08:26] <AndyEsser> would be fine?
[08:26] <AndyEsser> no need fo radditional ampage
[08:26] <fsphil> should be fine
[08:26] <Vaizki> most probably fine
[08:26] <AndyEsser> cheers folks
[08:26] <Vaizki> that's what I use .. :D
[08:26] <fsphil> the noise floor of the airspy is pretty low iirc
[08:26] <Vaizki> so someone send some balloons my way, ok?
[08:27] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: find winds that co-operate :)
[08:27] <AndyEsser> need a predictor that works backwards
[08:27] <AndyEsser> "I want to land it here, where should I launch from"
[08:28] <Vaizki> I don't know what happened to mini circuits splitter prices on ebay.. I have not seen a deal for a long time :(
[08:30] <Vaizki> like a ZFSC-2-2500-S+ .. 50 usd delivered.. great deal :P
[08:32] <AndyEsser> can't just use a BNC t-piece? :P
[08:33] <Vaizki> well you can but a real splitter will be better..
[08:33] <AndyEsser> ooo just thought, really I want a 3-way split
[08:33] <AndyEsser> unless I do 1 airpsy... and the 817 for general
[08:33] <AndyEsser> and then get a data connection hooked up between the PC and 817
[08:34] <AndyEsser> but was hoping for something a bit more portable to stick in an IP67 rated box outside with a Pi
[08:34] <russss> use a cable TV splitter
[08:34] <russss> e.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/labgear-Way-Indoor-Aerial-Splitter/dp/B00N8W2T6A/ref=sr_1_13
[08:35] <AndyEsser> F-types?
[08:35] <Vaizki> and 75ohm
[08:35] <AndyEsser> yet another bunch of connectors to get :P
[08:35] <russss> I have some F to SMA adaptors
[08:35] <AndyEsser> brb
[08:35] <russss> the impedance mismatch is pretty irrelevant if you're receiving only
[08:36] <Vaizki> true but I still prefer my mini circuits splitters.. :)
[08:36] <gonzo_> if it's aftre the LNA, then just a T adaptor is enough
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[08:47] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: I don't have an LNA
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[08:48] <gonzo_> then you must go and stand in the corner
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[08:49] <russss> fwiw, these are decent http://lna4all.blogspot.co.uk/
[08:49] <AndyEsser> how do I go about isolating things like my airspy, when using the antenna for TX?
[08:50] <AndyEsser> physically disconnect? or is there a more elegant option?
[08:51] <adamgreig> you could get a circulator but usually people use a tx/rx switch/relay
[08:51] <gonzo_> you could use an antenna switch, but make sure it has good isolation to the RX port
[08:52] <gonzo_> I use RF relays. And in the RX side, I have a second relat that switched the rx to ground. Just to be extra sure
[08:54] <gonzo_> actually there are three relays, as after that there is a 6-1 relay that will be all open when I'm doing the TX thing (whoch is very rare)
[08:57] Nick change: Kryczek_ -> Kryczek
[09:02] <AndyEsser> hmm
[09:05] <gonzo_> actually, I count 14 RF relays in my system. Not counting the ones in the PA/LNA boxes (aother 8?)
[09:06] <AndyEsser> lots of clicking then?
[09:06] <AndyEsser> wonder if I should design some complicated routing system... :P
[09:07] <AndyEsser> I might just stick to 1 antenna to 1 RX atm
[09:07] <AndyEsser> and have something separate for my 817
[09:09] <gonzo_> all the clicking is in the shed, well, it will be when i rebuild it. So I don't have to hear it!
[09:11] <gonzo_> depending where you site the two antennas, you could get significant power picked up on the RX one. Not an issue on a foundation ticket, but i doubt you will stay with that foir long
[09:12] <AndyEsser> well won't be TX'ing much on the X50 bands
[09:12] <AndyEsser> actually... that might be a lie
[09:12] <AndyEsser> hmm
[09:12] <AndyEsser> are you at Cosford this weekend?
[09:12] <gonzo_> I used to have a patch panel, a 19" one from an old coax ethernet install. So I could plug thinbgs around easilly. That wasn't a bad soln. As long as you don't get mixed up nand patch a TX into an RX!
[09:13] <AndyEsser> I want to avoid manual patching as much as possible
[09:13] <AndyEsser> I'd love to rig something up that I can control from a computer to route anything to anything else
[09:13] <AndyEsser> via various amps if needs be etc
[09:13] <gonzo_> yep, going up to John's on Friday. Have a gig to go to in the eve, then BATC sat/sun
[09:13] <AndyEsser> cool
[09:13] <AndyEsser> might have to pick your brain, if you don't mind
[09:14] <AndyEsser> shame I can't fly down... haha
[09:14] <gonzo_> the old system used an rs232 controled relay card to switch relays. So I could do that remotely
[09:14] <gonzo_> have just brought some IP versions for the new install
[09:14] <AndyEsser> nice
[09:14] <AndyEsser> linky?
[09:15] <gonzo_> the 6port SAM relays are good for antenna switching.
[09:15] <gonzo_> SMA
[09:16] <gonzo_> ebay 361413195889
[09:16] <AndyEsser> ouch, just found a relay switch from fairview, with N type
[09:16] <AndyEsser> up to 275 watts
[09:16] <AndyEsser> $500
[09:17] <AndyEsser> those are just generic relay switch boards?
[09:19] <gonzo_> yep, they are relay out, tcp/html control and usefull, have opto isolated inputs
[09:19] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> !dial ubseds18
[09:19] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE-M: Latest dials for 03UBSEDS18 10(64a5): 03434.612017 MHz
[09:19] <AndyEsser> can handle the power?
[09:19] <gonzo_> rallies or ebay for RF relays
[09:20] <gonzo_> BATC may have some people selling. (Kevin Avery is usually there)
[09:20] <gonzo_> 201606328747 is the 6port one. I use them to select an antenna/feed for the rx
[09:21] <AndyEsser> I should make sure to bring some cash with me
[09:21] <gonzo_> the ip relay boards are just for switching mains/dc. you use tjose to control the RF relays
[09:22] <gonzo_> I'll see what I have in the shed. Can prob find you an N type relay
[09:22] <gonzo_> will be 24V coil though
[09:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CT2JVS - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CT2JVS
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[09:55] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-5 after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-5
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[10:08] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03S-17 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-17
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[11:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[12:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ralt-qq_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ralt-qq_chase
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[12:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03)_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=)_chase
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[13:19] <Laurenceb__> http://i.imgur.com/Qp0p1AQ.jpg
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> I have extreme questions anyone would actually try that.
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[13:26] <mfa298> I wouldn't be surprised if there were some idiots who try it.
[13:27] <gonzo_> like the waterproof IOS update
[13:27] <gonzo_> and the weighing scales app
[13:30] <Elwell> daveake: (or anyone involved in LoRa gateway building) - Around?
[13:36] <chrisg7ogx> does anyone have an actual frequency for ubeds18 please?
[13:39] <daveake> around
[13:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HIRF-6 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRF-6
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[13:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PITEL - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PITEL
[13:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MAVIS_1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MAVIS_1
[13:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MAVIS_A1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MAVIS_A1
[13:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HIRFW-6 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
[13:54] <Elwell> daveake: cool - I'm trying to set up a network of sensors round our tasmanian block, and thinking of LoRa (want to eventually scale to neighbouring sites) -- are the pi based ones limited in what they can do compared to sy the kerlink (bearing in mind I'm being quoted ~2500 AUD for the latter)
[13:55] <Elwell> was contemplating the multitech one, but as that doesn't seem to have GPS (unless I hack in GPIO PPS) so doubt it'll do class B
[13:55] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> chrisg7ogx, 434.612.5 centre freq. Can't see it here yet
[13:55] <Elwell> in which case I may as well build my own on a pi...
[13:56] <Elwell> so general advice / comments greatly appreciated.
[14:11] <chrisg7ogx> thanks Geoff, no going away from us all the time
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[15:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MAVIS_R1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MAVIS_R1
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[15:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SB - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SB
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[15:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RELAY1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RELAY1
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[17:06] <garymortimer> I see balloons being played with, when might launches happen?
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[18:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03car_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=car_chase
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[19:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03STABILOTRON-II - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=STABILOTRON-II
[19:50] <Laurenceb__> ooh the stabilotron lives
[20:00] <Vaizki> I for one welcome our stabilitron overlords
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[20:20] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Lets hope the balloon doesn't escape this time ;-)
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[20:46] <pb0ahx> !flights
[20:46] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03UBSEDS18 434.612.5 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(64a5)
[20:46] <pb0ahx> !dial 64a5
[20:46] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 03UBSEDS18 10(64a5): none
[21:00] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5KMP-5 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5KMP-5
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[22:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC0D-14 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC0D-14
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[23:09] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[23:12] <Laurenceb__> talking of the stabilotron
[23:12] Action: Laurenceb__ was looking at payload stability
[23:13] <Laurenceb__> ignoring vortex shedding from the envelope, a ~20m payload line looks optimal
[23:13] <Laurenceb__> but for typical ascent velocity the vortex shedding gives resonance at ~20m payload line length
[23:13] <Laurenceb__> doh
[23:16] <Laurenceb__> needs a flow separation device
[23:16] <Ian_> So, damp the resonance of the line somehow.
[23:20] <Laurenceb__> well if you add dampers to the payload in the form of polythene curtains or something they just pick up more turbulence
[23:20] <Laurenceb__> one answer is to try to float to get a stable payload, that reduces turbulence massively
[23:21] Action: Laurenceb__ is wondering how hard it would be to generate a simulated turbulent atmosphere in order to run proper CFD
[23:21] <Laurenceb__> probably quite hard unless there was some way to "inject" fresh turbulent atmosphere into the top of a simulation box that tracked the ascending payload and envelope
[23:21] <Laurenceb__> a lot of work :-S
[23:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRF-5 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRF-5
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[23:52] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-5 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-5
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[00:00] --- Wed Sep 21 2016