highaltitude.log.20160913

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[06:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03GAS-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GAS-12
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[07:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03E29AJP-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=E29AJP-11
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[07:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RELAY1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RELAY1
[07:46] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SB after 0317 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SB
[08:01] <Rebounder> cool
[08:02] <Rebounder> 5 floater above NA waiting to wake up :)
[08:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03uwe_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=uwe_chase
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[08:47] <ryan_in> How likely are CAA to give me permission for thursday/friday. I applied for permission a month ago but the predictions are looking a lot better for this week
[08:47] <ryan_in> Than next week
[08:50] <gonzo_> you can always ask
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[09:00] <adamgreig> There's still time to ask, definitely
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[09:32] <AndyEsser> amell: probably something like M6ZZZ
[09:32] <AndyEsser> you?
[09:35] <daveake> Given how much yawning amell did after he'd finished in the exam, I'd say ZZZ would be entirely appropriate :)
[09:35] <gonzo_> I thought about getting the letters BEI, so that you could tap out 'shave and a haircut' in morse
[09:36] <daveake> There must be a morse bias amongst chosen callsigns
[09:36] <gonzo_> but when I got my call, you could only get them issued in sequence
[09:36] <daveake> e.g. short letters
[09:37] <gonzo_> I wondered that. But most people I know who got to choose, just got their initials
[09:37] <AndyEsser> pretty sure M6ARE would be taken
[09:38] <gonzo_> there are some special short contest callsigns, for serious stations. We have G4R for flights club
[09:38] <AndyEsser> First rule of Flights Club
[09:38] <AndyEsser> Never talk about Flights Club, except on 20m
[09:38] <gonzo_> rule two: Nahhh poofters
[09:39] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: gah, just seen Chester Comic Con is the same day as the BATC conf :(
[09:40] <gonzo_> you can only use those short calls on specific contests etc. So limited use, apart for the HF lads. Who do a lot of stuff
[09:40] <gonzo_> that's a bugger
[09:40] <gonzo_> BATC is a two day event
[09:40] <craag> phew - one less person to watch my talk
[09:40] <AndyEsser> yea, but I have to pick my dad up from Manchester airport at 4.30pm on the Saturday
[09:40] <AndyEsser> so wouldn't really be much point me driving down there on the Saturday
[09:41] <AndyEsser> craag: you're giving a talk?
[09:41] <russss> there are definitely people who choose callsigns based on how they sound in morse
[09:41] <gonzo_> you can watch/heckle online
[09:41] <russss> I am not one of them. I think mine's basically all dashes though.
[09:41] <AndyEsser> EEE
[09:41] <AndyEsser> .
[09:41] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[09:41] <AndyEsser> :)
[09:42] <gonzo_> that's going to be an HF thing. Not really something I know much about
[09:42] <AndyEsser> dirty scummy HF :P
[09:42] <craag> AndyEsser: I am, on their new web infrastructure, which I'll maybe have built by then :P
[09:42] <gonzo_> Think I've had one qso on the HF ham band since..... 1989?
[09:43] <AndyEsser> "new web infrastructure"... you mean, not just a bunch of 28.8k modems?
[09:43] <russss> I only really use datamodes.
[09:43] <AndyEsser> craag: nice shame I might miss it
[09:43] <AndyEsser> which day?
[09:44] <gonzo_> I did run 9600bd ax25 on 80mtrs, just for fun once. But that was to myself, so prob does not count
[09:44] <gonzo_> ah, it was two qso's. Did a psk test with fsphin a while ago
[09:44] <AndyEsser> hehe... talking to yourself
[09:45] <AndyEsser> I'd like to try and get a contact with fsphil sometime from home
[09:45] <AndyEsser> but doubt I'll be able to do it on 2m, so might have to make an HF antenna
[09:45] <fsphil> just throw some wire out the window
[09:45] <gonzo_> should be easy on the lower bands. You are close enough
[09:45] <gonzo_> 6mtrs shoudl eb doable
[09:46] Action: AndyEsser has an excuse to buy a Diamond V2000
[09:46] <AndyEsser> :)
[09:46] <craag> AndyEsser: Saturday afternoon
[09:47] <gonzo_> just string up a dipole for 6. horisontal prob best
[09:47] <gonzo_> think the 817 does 50mhz?
[09:47] <fsphil> does
[09:48] <gonzo_> most HF sets give you 6 for free
[09:48] <fsphil> rare I hear anything on 50mhz
[09:48] <gonzo_> good excuse to use it then
[09:49] <gonzo_> not sure I've ever actually used it. Prefer 4mtrs
[09:49] <mfa298> based on the ranges for field-day you might even manage 2/70 ssb, although that might need the yagi and a hill.
[09:50] <gonzo_> just because you had to build kit to be active on 4mtrs, so you got more interesing people on there
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[09:51] <AndyEsser> mfa298: yea, LOS would be an issue between us
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[09:52] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: the 817 does EVERYTHING :)
[09:52] <AndyEsser> * (may not be everything)
[09:52] <mfa298> I think the only thing I found it didn't cover (even with an unlocked one) was marine band which some of the other radios I've got can receive.
[09:53] <AndyEsser> gonzo_ / craag - presume the musuem will be open as usual that day?
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[10:11] <gonzo_> mine pretty much does
[10:12] <gonzo_> all bands from 1.5MHz to 2.5GHz
[10:12] <gonzo_> with the addition of some boxes
[10:13] <gonzo_> AndyEsser, the museum will be opwn. Not sure if conf access gets you in to the museum too?
[10:14] <DL7AD1> good morning
[10:14] Nick change: DL7AD1 -> DL7AD
[10:15] <gonzo_> hi
[10:15] <gonzo_> DL7AD, of all the SSDV frames you took at the weekend, I'm hardly in any
[10:16] <DL7AD> gonzo_: didnt understand that unfortunately
[10:18] <fsphil> I think I appear once
[10:18] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: actually it does, just remembered reading that
[10:19] <AndyEsser> wondering if I bring my father with him and deposit him in the Museum
[10:19] <AndyEsser> and then him and John can have some inter-service banter
[10:19] <AndyEsser> suspect I appear in a couple frames
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[10:27] <craag> gonzo_: Yes there will be museum access
[10:27] <AndyEsser> hmm
[10:27] <craag> you can book a free guided tour too I believe
[10:27] <AndyEsser> I shall plot and scheme and see if I can get there
[10:28] Action: AndyEsser is tempted to not bother picking up father from airport
[10:28] <craag> info: http://www.batc.org.uk/convention.html
[10:30] <amell> daveake: ha it was a late night
[10:32] <amell> oh cosford museum is really really good
[10:33] <amell> i would go as far and say its on a par if not better than duxford
[10:33] <amell> cosford museum is free at all times, you dont have to pay.
[10:37] <gonzo_> it's only a few miles from my old hoime town, but never been there!
[10:38] <amell> definately go.
[10:40] <amell> right i have registered at ofcom licensing portal, now its asking for rsgb candidate number. Wish i'd made a note of it.
[10:41] <daveake> You could call ofcom
[10:41] <amell> do you still have the exam paper daveake?
[10:41] <amell> i think it was at the top
[10:41] <craag> Exam papers had to be sent back amell
[10:42] <craag> I'm not sure that was the same number
[10:42] <amell> oh okay. I'll just learn to be patient ;)
[10:42] <craag> as I'd only heard of them being issued after the foundation results had been processed by the rsgb
[10:42] <daveake> a useful skill with ofcom
[10:42] <daveake> ok no point calling then
[10:43] <craag> Yeah just wait
[10:43] <amell> how do you pick your call sign? does it give you a choice or a matter of trying them
[10:43] <daveake> there were ref numbers on the sheet that had the candidates listed
[10:43] <daveake> you can try one you want, then get told if (ofcom think) it's been allocated or not
[10:43] <amell> ofcom seem to have moved the license system to salesforce
[10:44] <Ian_> Make yourself a short list of callsigns and ask for each in turn until you get one that isn't taken yet
[10:44] <daveake> yeah that's what I did
[10:44] <amell> will it definately be M6?
[10:44] <Ian_> Think it's allocated . . . history there . . . then they might let you keep it if you are lucky :)
[10:45] <daveake> yeah you may think there's a database connected to the web site; actually it's an old blind guy in an office
[10:46] <gonzo_> I had to spend ages on a p[ayphone talkng to them to get mine. (Which was ironic as I was phreaking it to get a free call)
[10:46] <amell> M3LLA would be good, but if its M6 then that scotches mine
[10:47] <gonzo_> (hmmm, payphone. That was a long time ago!)
[10:48] <amell> gonzo_: yeah, what colour box did you use then? :)
[10:48] <Ian_> Blue ;)
[10:49] <gonzo_> hehe, nope, just dtmf
[10:50] <gonzo_> you could pull the earth off the halls of residence cocots phones and it couldn't do a coin collect. Killed the dial also, but that was why we used the dtmf
[10:52] <gonzo_> the sterrt payphones you could do by dialing the numbver on dtmf then 999 on the phone keypad. The phone thought the call was emergency and ignored the coan signals. But the call was already going through
[10:52] <gonzo_> theystopped that by filtering the audio to stop dtmf
[10:52] <gonzo_> but only some tones, so some numbers would go thropugh if lucky
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[11:02] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[11:10] <amell> found a list of unallocated callsigns... ZZZ is taken
[11:10] <gonzo_> wow, big strike. took out power at home
[11:12] <fsphil> thor thinks nothing of your puny power grid
[11:13] <amell> m6DUH is available.
[11:13] <mattbrejza> everything is calm a bit further east
[11:14] <russss> there is also one here but it dates from last year https://github.com/marksteward/callsigns/blob/master/foundation.txt
[11:15] <daveake> and that one's missing M6RPI, which (I happen to know) has been allocated. Twice.
[11:15] <daveake> Perhaps ofcom used that list :/
[11:15] <fsphil> honestly wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be some mdb access database
[11:16] <craag> until a few years ago it was a paper record I believe
[11:16] <amell> Im finding this a very very difficult decision
[11:16] <gonzo_> we had a phase bounce at work. Home droipped out and pjm looks to still be offline. So that's three locations 5miles apart affected
[11:16] <russss> if anyone applying for a new callsign is happy to run this scraper, then we can update that list. Info here: https://github.com/marksteward/callsigns/
[11:17] <gonzo_> amell, if you are going for the next levels, don't worry about it. You won't have the CS for long
[11:17] <gonzo_> (though some people try and get the same letters for each stage
[11:17] <daveake> yeah I tried
[11:17] <daveake> failed
[11:17] <russss> I haven't managed to get my intermediate done yet
[11:17] <fsphil> I kept VIM all the way through
[11:17] <russss> due to logistical reasons
[11:17] <fsphil> I wanted ZIM but ah well
[11:18] <AndyEsser> if M3 were still around I'd try to go for M3SSR
[11:18] <AndyEsser> but alas
[11:18] <gonzo_> I just took whatever was issued for the old class B. But as they changed the rules, managed to get that live again too
[11:18] <fsphil> there is some choice on the prefix iirc
[11:18] <amell> we can try m3?
[11:19] <fsphil> I had the option of getting a G* callsign when choosing the full callsign
[11:19] <gonzo_> reallky?!
[11:19] <amell> i thought all Gs were almost pensioners.
[11:19] <gonzo_> are they reissuing old calls?
[11:19] <russss> they have been making noises about starting to recycle callsigns
[11:19] <russss> but I didn't think they were doing it yet
[11:19] <gonzo_> pft, the cheak!
[11:19] <fsphil> this was years ago
[11:19] <AndyEsser> Imagine 75% of the assigned callsigns are for dead people
[11:20] <fsphil> I think it was just offering the few G callsigns that still remained
[11:20] <gonzo_> or they just smell that way
[11:20] <fsphil> I preferred the M format so never tried to see what was available
[11:20] <russss> as I understand it the problem is there are a lot of G4 and G7s who have not updated their license but are still active
[11:20] <gonzo_> you can get an inderited one still
[11:20] <gonzo_> inhereted
[11:20] <russss> and they haven't quite worked out how they're going to go about revoking them.
[11:20] <gonzo_> inherited
[11:20] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: got there in the end :)
[11:21] <gonzo_> they will just automatically lapse after 5yrs now
[11:21] <gonzo_> yep. Wasn't going to be betaen by.... myself
[11:21] <russss> in theory, but I don't think they're enforcing that.
[11:21] <russss> or at least, they're not recycling the lapsed callsigns
[11:21] <gonzo_> prob giving some grace to start with
[11:23] <russss> iirc there is also a new M* block (maybe M7?) which they keep saying they're getting ready to release for foundation callsigns but haven't yet
[11:23] <amell> I need to synchronise my callsign with an available car number plate. This is complicating matters.
[11:23] <AndyEsser> I really wante E5SER reg plate, but it went for auction and went for a small fortune I believe
[11:23] <craag> it'll be mayhem once they start recycling, so many old hams yelling and shaking their lifetime license papers at poor newbies
[11:24] <AndyEsser> craag: after a few years they'll been recycled themselves (...) and it won't matter :P
[11:24] <Ian_> There never was a policy of recycling. I notice that everything before M6Fxx has been allocated. They shouldn't allocate a new block before the previous one is pretty much exhausted. Imagine getting the very last available M6 call
[11:24] <craag> hah
[11:24] <AndyEsser> I might try and use SER where possible
[11:24] <amell> but is M6 SER available at the DVLA?
[11:25] <Ian_> I'm sure you guys have better things to do with your £££ than give it to DVLA
[11:25] <daveake> cough
[11:25] <russss> "If a call sign was last used more than ten years ago, the system may recycle it but that call signs used in the last ten years should not be recycled."
[11:25] <AndyEsser> as I don't own a car, it's a moot point
[11:25] <mfa298> they'de probably need to give a lot of notice if they want to recycle (or only do it on call signs issued after a point when it's in the terms)
[11:25] <AndyEsser> daveake: how's HAB 1?
[11:25] <russss> is apparently the current line
[11:26] <russss> I dunno how they define "last used"
[11:26] <daveake> not HAB 1 :)
[11:26] <AndyEsser> Close enough :P
[11:26] <gonzo_> M6NDY ?
[11:26] <AndyEsser> I imagined a fleet like Thunderbirds :P
[11:26] <gonzo_> and you can then be Mandy at weekends too
[11:26] <russss> "Ofcom have also confirmed that the requirement to revalidate licences at least every five years remains. At present the system does not provide an obvious way of doing this but this is being urgently addressed."
[11:26] <russss> haha
[11:26] <AndyEsser> Like we had Mary Ireland?
[11:26] <AndyEsser> :P
[11:27] <russss> ok so apparently they updated their system recently and the RSGB has been getting grumpy
[11:27] <russss> (what a surprise)
[11:27] <russss> http://rsgb.org/main/blog/news/2016/08/05/ofcom-licensing-portal-update/
[11:27] <russss> that also means that the callsign scraper won't work
[11:29] <amell> i said that earlier, they moved it to salesforce.
[11:30] <russss> heh
[11:30] <mfa298> the 12th Aug update on that page seems to imply that some call signs have been re-issued (after two years of not being used)
[11:30] <daveake> They should be a ham to rewrite the ofcom website
[11:30] <daveake> Oh wait ...
[11:30] <craag> ie. after 7 yrs of not being validated I assume mfa298
[11:30] <Ian_> They don't need to have meetings at the highest levels, just get the appropriate programmers in a quiet back street and make the point . . .
[11:31] <Ian_> The point with being able to automatically validate your callsign every so many years is negated by the password life which expires in less than 13 months
[11:31] <Ian_> Telephone
[11:31] <mfa298> I'd assume that's 2 years after the last validation expired. But then that contradicts what russss quoted above ""If a call sign was last used more than ten years ago, ..."
[11:32] <craag> That was a seperate point mfa298
[11:32] <russss> yeah, the 2 years thing was what was happening for a while, but they extended it to 10 years it seems
[11:32] <craag> the 2 yrs thing was a malfunction I believe
[11:32] <adamgreig> it sounds like it was deliberate but they reconsidered
[11:32] <craag> the 10yrs is probably all the records they can find :P
[11:32] <adamgreig> it sounds most like they cba loading >2y of callsigns into new system
[11:32] <adamgreig> yea
[11:32] <russss> RSGB seems to be not keen on recycling
[11:32] <Ian_> Ofcom generally seems to be a bit of a malfunction when it comes to callsign admin
[11:32] <adamgreig> weird as the US lot do it on the regular
[11:32] Action: mfa298 should probably read the whole thing before commening.
[11:33] <adamgreig> soon as anyone dies it's a big scramble to get the good 4 letter calls
[11:33] <gonzo_> sounds like hey may have only loaded a couple pf years worth of old records in. And now gone back further. Buyt in between, some 2-10yr ones may have been reissued
[11:33] <AndyEsser> mfa298: nah, just break in like a true HAM
[11:33] <gonzo_> doubt thay will reissue those. Unless as a handed down one
[11:34] <adamgreig> they do in the US, I was saying
[11:34] <mfa298> I know when I got my call re-issued a while back (10+ years ago) I had to send them a load of notes so they could find it. But then that was over the RA -> Ofcom transition so who knows what got lost during that.
[11:34] <craag> Yeah they should here, same as they do with business license slots that aren't renewed on time (can be reissued to someone else the day after they expire)
[11:35] <Ian_> Start looking at the increasing sparsity of current G1,2,3, etc. calls . . .
[11:35] <gonzo_> a while ago, the uk mil forgot to renew and their whole spectrum as open
[11:36] <AndyEsser> oops
[11:36] <gonzo_> for quite a while, till someoen tried rrealised
[11:36] <mfa298> I can see why RSGB don't want all calls re-issued, might be quite a scramble for things like G5RV.
[11:36] <craag> but then that's G5RV's fault
[11:36] <gonzo_> the key ones get handed on. That one os run by a club now
[11:36] <AndyEsser> what's special about G5RV?
[11:37] <gonzo_> famous antenna design
[11:37] <AndyEsser> ah
[11:37] <Ian_> They had it very simple when cs were issued sequentially, then they got smart and have yet to realise that they bred a monster
[11:37] <craag> ah yes passed away ~2000
[11:37] <mfa298> "It was invented in 1946 by Louis Varney, whose call sign is G5RV ("SK" on June 28, 2000, age 89). Hence the name, the G5RV antenna."
[11:37] <mfa298> (from http://www.hamuniverse.com/g5rv.html)
[11:37] <Ian_> Was it used, on the busses?
[11:37] <gonzo_> hehe
[11:42] <craag> In the case of the holder passing away, ideally there should be a year or two left before the license expires, which gives time for continuation of the callsign with a club/individual to be sorted out.
[11:44] <SpeedEvil> Or for the owner to find a radio on the other side.
[11:44] <craag> An option through the ofcom website to be able to pass your callsign onto another eligible entity wouldn't be a bad idea I think.
[11:45] <craag> With extra verification and such to avoid hackorz stealing them.
[11:45] <adamgreig> all of this is sort of predated on the idea that anyone couldn't just start using your callsign and literally nothing would happen :p
[11:45] <craag> shush
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:47] <craag> We've currently got a ticket pending with ofcom on retrieving the old club G8 callsign
[11:47] <craag> from a member who left the uni 20 years ago, is still validating it, and refuses to pass it back.
[11:48] <russss> radio club drama is the worst
[11:49] <craag> yep
[11:49] <Ian_> I think that they, Ofcom, have recognised that club callsigns need to be retrieved from ex members who have no remaining connection with the club
[11:49] <Ian_> They do seem to be dragging their heels on the matter though G7SRG is one such callsign
[11:49] <craag> Yes they confirmed that Ian_, however they have a 'process' and said process has taken 14 months so far :)
[11:50] <Ian_> I think we are further down the road than that, perhaps we need to ask, How long will it take if I was to instruct a barrister to handle this matter?
[11:50] <craag> Meh we're just waiting it out
[11:51] <craag> we have the g3
[11:51] <craag> some people just wanted the G8 under club control for posterity
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[11:52] <Ian_> With club callsigns, we now ensure that the holder signs a letter to Ofcom acknowledging that he has no personal claim on the callsign. Just in case, but the likelyhood is that such a letter would be lost by the time it came to the bit
[11:52] <gonzo_> I have our club call, and recall there was some bumf about a recognised committee being able to retain a callsign. But can imagine it is an arse to do
[11:54] <craag> I still hold our club call despite not being on committee for a couple of years now, but the transfer is more faff than it should be and they apparently trust me(!)
[11:54] <craag> Good thinking with the letter Ian_
[11:55] <Ian_> I am still the holder of G4WBC (GX4WBC) use it as a collective callsign only when calling and the club has been folded for four years
[11:55] <gonzo_> pretty much the same for us. I took it when I was chair (for a bloody long time) off an old lad who had them for decades. As he didn't know how long he had
[11:55] <craag> Or just an undated letter that passes the callsign back to club, and is held by the committee until needed.
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[11:56] <Ian_> May yet revoke it, but will still use as a collective either that or UMPTYDIDDLE this is . . .
[11:57] <gonzo_> we have quite a few calls. From the days when you were not aloowed to use the same call on multiple stations
[11:57] Action: AndyEsser uses M0DNY/M whilst in his car whilst waiting for his own callsign
[11:57] <AndyEsser> :P
[11:58] <Ian_> Pirate - your Foundation course is over.
[12:00] <fsphil> arr
[12:00] <fsphil> M6ARR
[12:01] <Ian_> Dear Ofcom we are distressed that our group can't retrieve our callsign from someone who is banged up at her majesty's pleasure for despicable crimes - thinking of taking the story to the Sun newspaper - would you like to anti up or otherwise comment?
[12:01] <Ian_> :)
[12:02] <AndyEsser> not sure the Sun would care?
[12:02] <AndyEsser> unless the person banged up was Muslim and they could turn the story into a horrific anti-Islam piece
[12:02] <Ian_> Yes, but address it to head of Ofcom and name him as being a roadblock
[12:04] <Ian_> Pipedreams eh!
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[12:17] <jakeio> Can I ask how many people have two LoRas on a pi?
[12:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I have two 434on one Pi AND A 434 & AN 868 ON ANOTHER
[12:19] <jakeio> OK, thanks.
[12:19] <gonzo_> ditto
[12:19] <daveake> I have ... many
[12:19] <gonzo_> though only one on an antenna at the mo
[12:20] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> One pair is on a co-linear with the calling channel and "spare" to tune with, the other is shared with the Airspy on beams and the 868 on its own beam.
[12:20] <amell> I have a 434 and an 868 on one board. I only have 434 connected. I need to sort an 868 antenna.
[12:21] <amell> btw, is the pi zero tracker board ready yet?
[12:21] <daveake> Ask Upu
[12:21] <Upu> no
[12:22] <amell> /sadface
[12:23] <Upu> going to be about £200
[12:23] <Upu> possibly more
[12:24] <prog> hi guys
[12:24] <daveake> should point out that it'll be a full kit with the Pi Zero itself
[12:24] <daveake> header soldered
[12:24] <daveake> because we fear the damage that customer will cause with soldering irons
[12:25] <daveake> customers
[12:25] <prog> get the latest and greatest SDR#. Some cool features are avaiable
[12:25] <gonzo_> and shipped pre-plugged in
[12:26] <daveake> Upu has some customer photos; they do like to push the bounds of topology
[12:28] <Darkside_> baha
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[12:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BALYOLO - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALYOLO
[12:47] <AndyEsser> Going for another Lakenheath landing?
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[13:02] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03WB8ELK-3 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-3
[13:03] <WillDuckworth> hey fsphil - you know we were talking about dl-fldigi compilation - was is it your fork on github?
[13:06] <fsphil> the latest version?
[13:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB
[13:07] <WillDuckworth> yes - with those icon tweaks I think it was
[13:07] <fsphil> worth trying the https://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi version first
[13:08] <fsphil> it should already have the icon changes
[13:08] <WillDuckworth> yeah - that's the one I've been tinkering with - will have another bash with a clean clone
[13:08] <fsphil> yeah just checked, it's got the icons namespace
[13:09] <WillDuckworth> cool
[13:18] <AndyEsser> gah!! reception rejected my package with all my books in :(
[13:20] <Vaizki> :O
[13:20] <AndyEsser> now to drive to Warrington this evening to collect from depot
[13:20] <AndyEsser> yippee
[13:21] <gonzo_> rejected?
[13:22] <AndyEsser> yea, went to the wrong office here, and they didn't recognise my name
[13:22] <AndyEsser> means having to brave the M6 at about 5.30-6.00pm
[13:23] <AndyEsser> *gulp*
[13:27] <amell> Upu: 200. ah. ok... i was looking for cheap PCBs so i'll pass...
[13:27] <amell> daveake: pi zero headers seems to be a very good case study for soldering horrors.
[13:28] <daveake> yeah, don't want any of that
[13:29] <WillDuckworth> cheers fsphil BTW - worked fine
[13:29] <amell> its not exactly expensive to get a new one.
[13:29] <amell> fsphil: I could do with a new Mac dl-fldigi...
[13:31] <gonzo_> can you not request a redelivery
[13:31] <udat> fsphil: you know of a digicon event in portadown ?
[13:31] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: Yes, but not for today
[13:32] <AndyEsser> however I imagine that's what I will have to do because they want me to take a utility bill along with me... but I'm not going to have that for my business address
[13:33] <gonzo_> couriers are a pain
[13:33] <AndyEsser> well if the company I'd ordered from had filled the address out properly we wouldn't have this problem
[13:33] <fsphil> udat: I do. *might* be going, not sure yet. guess I need to be quick, it's not far off
[13:33] <AndyEsser> they obviously used some sort of auto-complete postal address thing, rather than the address I gave them
[13:35] <udat> fsphil: only stumbled across when searching for something entirely unrelated, surprised not been talked about more than in the not so digital generation gb2rs news :)
[13:36] <fsphil> yeah I only heard about it from the rsgb regional manager, Philip Hosey
[13:36] <fsphil> even google isn't finding much on it
[13:42] <udat> no, that's why was asking :)
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[13:42] <fsphil> amateur radio people are suprisingly bad at communicating
[13:43] <edmoore> i have not found it surprising for some time
[13:43] <AndyEsser> right.... package will apparently be delivered to my "neighbour" today at somepoint...
[13:43] <fsphil> yes
[13:43] <AndyEsser> neighbour being where I actually am
[13:44] <edmoore> upu said to me on saturday that 'the only time you use your callsign is when you're about to be sarcastic' which on reflection is probably correct
[13:44] <fsphil> lol
[13:44] <AndyEsser> You? Sarcastic? Never!
[13:44] <AndyEsser> :)
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[14:13] <edmoore> does anyone else have this thing in their folder hierarchy whereby the have a project called foo so they have a folder called foo which contains only one thing, which is a folder called foo, because:
[14:13] <edmoore> mkdir foo; cd foo; git clone foo
[14:13] <AndyEsser> yes
[14:14] <edmoore> i have it basically everywhere and only really noticed when playing with pathlib just now
[14:14] <AndyEsser> if I remember in time, I just cd projects; git clone foo
[14:14] <craag> git clone foo foo
[14:14] <AndyEsser> does that work?
[14:14] <AndyEsser> ie git clone repo folder/ ?
[14:14] <craag> it puts it in a folder called foo :)
[14:14] <craag> yep
[14:14] <AndyEsser> nice
[14:14] Action: AndyEsser tries to remember that
[14:14] <craag> so that command would be redundant
[14:14] <edmoore> i have projects/work/customer/project/project/{actual stuff}
[14:14] <edmoore> that's a good tip craag!
[14:14] <edmoore> didn't know that
[14:15] <AndyEsser> +1
[14:15] Action: AndyEsser gives 1 HAB Karma to craag
[14:15] <craag> \o/
[14:15] <edmoore> but really the sright solution is AndyEsser's i think
[14:15] <AndyEsser> as in, remember in time? and don't mkdir?
[14:15] <fsphil> I just git clone foo
[14:16] <fsphil> it usually does the right thing
[14:16] <AndyEsser> fsphil: if you're in a folder called foo
[14:16] <AndyEsser> you'll get foo/foo
[14:16] <fsphil> yeah, I don't make a folder manually
[14:16] <edmoore> yeah that's the bug\
[14:16] <adamgreig> you can also git clone <path> .
[14:17] <fsphil> I have a directory ~/src, I'd just cd ~/src; git clone foo
[14:17] <adamgreig> which means you can remember at the very last moment just hit <space><.>
[14:17] <adamgreig> but yes I typically just "cd Projects; git clone <path>"
[14:17] <craag> cd projects; mkdir foo; cd foo; git clone foo-fw fw; git clone foo-hw hw;
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[14:18] <adamgreig> i tend to keep hardware and firmware in the same git repo, one repo per project
[14:18] <adamgreig> especially a lot of projects have more than one board and more than one firmware and it's nice to keep all that together and with shared things together and version controlled
[14:18] <craag> I like to keep my inodes busy :)
[14:19] <edmoore> yeah i'm all for one repo per overarching thing
[14:19] <craag> also means I can branch for a different fw
[14:19] <adamgreig> I can still branch for different fw :P
[14:19] <craag> but then you have 2 branches of hw
[14:19] <adamgreig> the hw isn't different in the branches though
[14:20] <adamgreig> I'll continue making hw changes on the hw branch (or master, or whatever) and the two fw branches can be rebased or merged or whatever
[14:21] <craag> or you can do what mattbrejza's IDE does with his fw repos, and just stores everything useful outside the git folder ;)
[14:21] <adamgreig> hah
[14:21] <adamgreig> yes you can just not use git at all
[14:21] <adamgreig> dropbox to share everything perhaps
[14:21] <mattbrejza> does it..?
[14:22] <WillDuckworth> one pull to rule them all?
[14:22] <mattbrejza> i think youre referring to when you tried to build one of my projects using a makefile that somehow got into the folder
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[14:23] <adamgreig> why would you possibly keep the makefiles inside the folder, indeed
[14:25] <edmoore> (I wondered the same rhing)
[14:25] <mattbrejza> (which i wasnt using or keeping updated)
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[14:33] <AndyEsser> lets use Visual Source Safe
[14:34] <fsphil> >8-/
[14:41] <gonzo_> I'm still using it on some projects
[14:42] <AndyEsser> HEATHEN
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[14:45] <gonzo_> it has worked fine on them for decades
[14:45] <fsphil> I've seen it randomly lose changes
[14:45] <gonzo_> easier to see what is going on than TFS
[14:45] <amell> git out of here with your vss
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[14:46] <gonzo_> tis the source of all evils
[14:46] <AndyEsser> I abandoned using VSS at one job
[14:46] <AndyEsser> then had a HDD failure
[14:47] <amell> makefiles? people still use these?
[14:47] <AndyEsser> and stayed up all night re-writing the lost code for a presentation at 9pm
[14:47] <AndyEsser> still less of a headache than using VSS
[14:47] <AndyEsser> amell: erm... yes
[14:48] <amell> I switched to maven ages ago
[14:48] <AndyEsser> <3 Maven
[14:48] <AndyEsser> for some things
[14:49] <edmoore> of course people still use makefiles
[14:49] <edmoore> they'e the worst build system except for all the others
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[14:51] <adamgreig> modern languages sort of sidestep the whole bullshit
[14:51] <adamgreig> rust and go have this down
[14:51] <adamgreig> other modern languages just seem to make it ten times worse. hello, javascript
[14:51] <adamgreig> "modern"
[14:51] <AndyEsser> go has it down?
[14:51] <AndyEsser> we use makefiles here for go
[14:51] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DL7AD-11 after 0317 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL7AD-11
[14:52] <adamgreig> huh
[14:52] <adamgreig> why not use go's built in thing?
[14:52] <adamgreig> i didn't like how it puts everything in one weird magic go tree, but besides that it seemed ok
[14:52] <AndyEsser> build : cd $(SERVICE_DIR)/ ; go get ; CGO_ENABLED=0 GOOS="linux" go build -ldflags '-s' -o $(SERVICE_BINARY)
[14:52] <AndyEsser> yea, the $GOPATH annoys me
[14:52] <adamgreig> yea
[14:52] <adamgreig> i don't really like go that much, that was one reason
[14:52] <AndyEsser> we then do other stuff in the makefile, like make a docker image
[14:52] <adamgreig> ok well anyway rust has this totally down and does an amazing job
[14:52] <adamgreig> guess that's fair
[14:52] <AndyEsser> haha
[14:52] <AndyEsser> nice save
[14:52] <adamgreig> make is good for tying things together like building other shit later
[14:52] <AndyEsser> make rusty :P
[14:53] <adamgreig> though i think mostly that's good for the CI server
[14:53] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: I'd agree... if it didn't treat every line as a subshell
[14:53] <adamgreig> lol
[14:53] <amell> ive been meaning to look at gradle.
[14:53] <AndyEsser> I like Maven, use it for all my Java projects, and bring in Grunt and other things into it
[14:53] <adamgreig> i like makefiles for my small c projects, i like make in chibios because it works well, gradle is alright if i'm stuck doing android i guess
[14:53] <AndyEsser> but don't think I'd ever consider using it for non-Java stuff
[14:53] <adamgreig> debugging makefiles is obviously the worst thing in the world
[14:53] <AndyEsser> as it requires... y'know... java
[14:54] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: for my linux c/c++ projects, I've typically always just written a build.sh file, that has my clang++/g++ invocation in it
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[14:54] <edmoore> i've basically never touched anything that has anything to do with the jvm so i have been spared all this
[14:55] <AndyEsser> there are worse things to have to touch than the JVM and writing JAva
[14:55] <AndyEsser> Java*
[14:55] Action: AndyEsser ponders writing a JVM for his 8-bit AVR
[14:56] <edmoore> like what?
[14:56] <edmoore> cobol?
[14:56] <edmoore> node?
[14:57] <edmoore> http://www.harbaum.org/till/nanovm/index.shtml
[14:57] <adamgreig> AndyEsser: why not do make at that point?
[14:57] <edmoore> save yourself the effort
[14:57] <adamgreig> it's simpler and nicer and easier to do normal making things
[14:57] <adamgreig> shrug
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[14:57] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: by writing a build.sh file?
[14:58] <AndyEsser> because I've never spent the time to investigate make
[14:58] <AndyEsser> so it was either investigate make, or write a one-line script file
[14:58] <AndyEsser> having been forced to use make at this project, I like it, for the most part
[14:58] <AndyEsser> and will likely use it in future instead
[14:59] <adamgreig> fe
[14:59] <adamgreig> for simple things it's just "all:" and then a list of make commands :P
[14:59] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KG6EQU-11 after 0316 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG6EQU-11
[15:00] <adamgreig> but it means as soon as you want make clean, it's very simple to add it, without having to do bash checking the first command line argument and if statements and bla bla
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[15:00] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: yea I know - I haven't started a new project since working here
[15:00] <AndyEsser> will do it moving forward suspect
[15:00] <AndyEsser> especially with stuff I open source, so people can just do make clean/make and be done
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[15:15] <M0RJX> adamgreig, did you see my pm from yesterday?
[15:15] <adamgreig> i did, but you'd gone by the time I got back
[15:16] <adamgreig> please do forward that, but to contact@cusf.co.uk as it's no longer my role to worry about :P
[15:16] <AndyEsser> slopey shoulders :P
[15:16] <M0RJX> Can you believe it, my Tektronix scope which I broght for 100 quid and is 15 years old has died and I phoned Tektonix up for a quote for repair and they said it was still under warrentee and they would mend it for free.
[15:17] <AndyEsser> nice
[15:17] <M0RJX> adamgreig, cool will do
[15:17] <M0RJX> Now I'm tinking i should not of tapped it against the wall so hard to see if it was a loose connection :-)
[15:19] <M0RJX> adamgreig, done
[15:19] <adamgreig> thanks
[15:24] <ryan_in> Could someone approve my flight document please. Payload is called JMHS
[15:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> You need to /join #habhub and post the Flight Doc ID number
[15:25] <ryan_in> Okay thank you!
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[15:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03JMHS after 038 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=JMHS
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[16:07] <steve___> Hi
[16:08] <steve___> Would like to order an Uputronics NTX2B-FA 434Mhz. Your product page says come here...
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[16:09] <adamgreig> you want Upu
[16:10] <steve___> Ok, thanks!
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[16:59] <PE2BZ> ryan_in Hi. When do you plan to fly ?
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[19:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N4XWC-1 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
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[20:38] rubdos (~rubdos@ptr-2hj4tbiko60765s1693n9l8p8.ip6.access.telenet.be) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[20:38] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 035 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
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[21:12] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03S-17 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-17
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[21:43] <m0rjx> Evening all
[21:43] <fsphil> o/
[21:44] <m0rjx> Hey fsphil Hope the trip home was ok
[21:44] <fsphil> yeah! nice bumpy landing :) good fun
[21:45] <m0rjx> Humm I hate those :-)
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[21:45] <fsphil> had visions of the pilot struggling with the controls
[21:45] <m0rjx> Yeah Like in the films
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[23:00] <gurlavie> anyone here ?
[23:03] <mfa298> maybe
[23:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[23:08] <gurlavie> :)
[23:08] <gurlavie> just wider I am testing a payload, can I see it on the tracker map ?
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[23:09] <mfa298> if you've got a payload doc that describes the telemetry you're uploading it should appear on the map
[23:10] <gurlavie> I have a payload configuiration document
[23:11] <mfa298> if you're uploading telemetry nd it matches the payload doc then it should appear.
[23:11] <mfa298> if it doesn't appear you're either not uploading data, or the payload doc is wrong
[23:12] <mfa298> http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/ will show you what the parser is doing with uploaded strings
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[23:19] <gurlavie> I see my payload in the logtail, but when I search in the top left corner I do not see it...
[23:19] <mfa298> whats your payload called
[23:20] <gurlavie> ILHAB-1
[23:20] <cm13g09> morning? mfa298
[23:21] <mfa298> cm13g09: according to my clock its still today
[23:21] <cm13g09> what mfa298?
[23:21] <mfa298> irc client runs pn gmt
[23:21] <cm13g09> ah lol
[23:23] Action: cm13g09 should be in bed - instead is doing battle with Postgres
[23:30] <mfa298> gurlavie: I can't see anything obviously wrong there, you might need to wait for someone with other ideas to be around.
[23:31] <gurlavie> thanks mfa298, will defer till tomorrow :) Thanks for looking !
[23:31] <gurlavie> gdnight
[23:31] <mfa298> the only possibility is that the satellites: 0, part is causing it not to display, but I dont see any obvious filter that would do tht
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[00:00] --- Wed Sep 14 2016