highaltitude.log.20160904

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[02:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KK4RPQ-1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK4RPQ-1
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[04:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
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[07:51] <BubUK> msg nickserve identify nemesis
[07:51] <BubUK> aarghhhh
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[08:25] <BubUK> anyone home ?
[08:25] Nick change: Guest51362 -> nick_
[08:26] <mfa298> nope. all figments of your imagination
[08:26] <mfa298> more usefully, chances are people are around so if there's a question just ask
[08:29] <BubUK> good morning in that case !
[08:30] <BubUK> i have a couple of questions about the MORJX fork of daveake's lora gateway - so they're frighteningly specific ;-)
[08:31] <mfa298> there's a few people that know about the various lora versions and changes
[08:34] <BubUK> yes. it's a bit early on a Sunday to get help I guess
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[08:38] <mfa298> we'll never know if you don't ask the question!
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[08:43] <BubUK> true. trying the get the sms upload between lor gateway and lora tracker working. just doesnt seem to work.
[08:43] <daveake> That's not specific to a particular version
[08:44] <BubUK> Hi Dave. In which respect ?
[08:44] <daveake> That's (probvably) because your LorA modules aren't frequency-matched and you just need to adjust the frequency of tx or rx so they do
[08:44] <daveake> If you look at my latest version, you can now set the frequencies in the config
[08:44] <BubUK> right. I'll grab it just now in that case. thank you.
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[08:46] <daveake> You can set the upload lora mode too (and I've added another one to the config)
[08:46] <daveake> So iyou could start my choosing a wide bandwidth mode, because those cope better with the frequency offsets between modules
[08:47] <daveake> Last thing, grab the latest pits, as the gps-derived timing is better
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[08:48] <BubUK> roger. will do that now and report back in a few mins ;-)
[08:59] <BubUK> Daveake: just checking, the correct git is @ PiInTheSky isn't it ? says by M0RPI V1.8.0
[08:59] <daveake> yes that's me
[08:59] <BubUK> cool. just making sure. the gateway.txt is the same as the one I was already using.
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[09:14] <BubUK> daveake: gateway is saying "Checking for SMS file ..." and then back to showing ssdv packets. does this mean it's not seeing the 1.sms file ?
[09:14] <daveake> correct
[09:14] <daveake> I just do
[09:15] <daveake> echo "Hello World" > 1.sma
[09:15] <daveake> er
[09:15] <daveake> 1.sms
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[09:17] <BubUK_> sorry, stupid BT, broadband dropped out. did I miss a reply ?
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[09:19] <daveake> Just do echo something > 1.sms
[09:19] <PE2BZ> daveake good morning. To disable either CE0 or CE1 is it sufficient to only put a # for the frequency ?
[09:19] <daveake> yes
[09:20] <PE2BZ> Thanks.
[09:21] <BubUK_> this is what its looking like when checking :- http://imgur.com/uBdq2Gg
[09:22] <daveake> Yes, so the file isn't where it's looking
[09:23] <daveake> During startup it displays the source folder so check that
[09:24] <BubUK_> that what i thought. except it is there ...
[09:26] <BubUK_> gateway.txt has an entry "SMSFolder=SMS" and startup looks like this :- http://imgur.com/uxfG78E
[09:27] <BubUK_> inside the SMS directory is a file called 1.sms which contains "hello world"
[09:27] <daveake> Should be fine, however try ./SMS
[09:28] <daveake> 1 sec
[09:28] <daveake> Needs a trailing \
[09:28] <BubUK_> ah!
[09:29] <michal_f_off> http://gif.wiocha.pl/images/0/9/0964bbf14976b4ac16e9131da88b6559.gif :)
[09:30] <BubUK_> thats the best use of a cat ive seen for some time.
[09:30] <daveake> well / really
[09:30] <BubUK_> ./SMS/ ?
[09:30] <daveake> Doesn't need to ./
[09:30] <daveake> the
[09:31] <BubUK_> now scanning SMS/
[09:31] <BubUK_> BINGO!
[09:31] <BubUK_> UPLINK: #1, echo Hello World
[09:31] <daveake> woo
[09:32] <BubUK_> its been so long that ive been trying to get it working that i forgot why i wanted it in the first place ;-)
[09:32] <daveake> echo was a command, not a suggestion to put the word echo in the file :)
[09:32] <BubUK_> you should update gateway.txt to include the trailing backslash perhaps
[09:32] <BubUK_> the sample that it
[09:32] <daveake> yesh doing thatnowp
[09:32] <BubUK_> ;-)
[09:32] <daveake> done the cr thing
[09:32] <BubUK_> i know haha
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[09:33] <daveake> FOr some reason I thought Rob said he was doing that when this came up before
[09:33] <BubUK_> oh yes, the bl&*dy cr nearly made me defenestrate
[09:33] <daveake> time to fix in code < time to find out why users are having trouble
[09:33] <daveake> <<
[09:33] <BubUK_> i think rob did say that yes
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[09:34] <daveake> anyway there now just about to test
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[10:01] <PE2BZ> Yesterday, when running the latest lora_gateway for RX of jakeio´s flight I did receive only one packet. That´s not a big deal, but the packet looked like this:
[10:01] <PE2BZ> 14:27:14 Ch0: $$PE2BZ_869,348,14:27:13,51.99154,4.19892,00002,0,0,12,53.0*98EB
[10:02] <PE2BZ> In my pisky.txt I use this name PE2BZ_869 for the channel 0 but the tracker was supposed not to be running.
[10:03] <PE2BZ> So, this means that the tracker and the lora_gateway have both been using the CE0 module ? after seeing this string I did sudo killall tracker and had to do that 3 times before I got the message that tracker was not running.
[10:03] <daveake> spooky
[10:03] <PE2BZ> Almost halloraweeny ;-)
[10:04] <daveake> sounds pipe-y
[10:04] <daveake> or thr tracker did actually run
[10:05] <PE2BZ> That would explain the bad RX wouldn´t it ? They are not supposed to share one lora module do they ?
[10:06] <daveake> This is on the same pi ?
[10:06] <PE2BZ> Indeed
[10:06] <PE2BZ> That´s the PI with the GPS module. If it had come from the PI @ work it would have showed zero´s for GPS
[10:06] <daveake> OK so the lora module would have had that message in its packet buffer
[10:07] <daveake> So if for some reason DIO0 glitched, then the gateway would see that old data. Or yes, if both were running at the same time weird things might happen
[10:09] <PE2BZ> They were not supposed to run at the same time, but it seems they did because top showed tracker and I could kill it three times.
[10:09] <PE2BZ> And the time from the string was the actual time at that moment.
[10:10] <PE2BZ> So now I removed pisky.txt and rebooted to stop unwanted tx when I try to receive at 869 MHz
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[10:21] <BubUK_> howcome the tracker keeps restarting regardless of me killall'ing it repeatedly ?
[10:23] <daveake> cos there's a loop in the startup script, to restart it if it crashes
[10:23] <daveake> sudo killall startup first
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[10:24] <BubUK_> ok. thnx. just updating pits to see if the uplinks are arriving at the tracker. they are now sending but not appearing
[10:24] <daveake> adjust the frequency or use a wider bandwidth
[10:25] <daveake> Also well worth keeping an sdr program running so you can see the listening period and the uplink packet
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[10:27] <BubUK_> right
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[10:34] <PE2BZ> daveake send_aprs should also not be running if the tracker is disabled, am I right ?
[10:35] <daveake> It's started from that same startup script, so if you don't want it running, edit that script (or don't run that script)
[10:36] <daveake> It won't try to send aprs unless the tracker is running and has aprs enabled
[10:36] <PE2BZ> If I have removed /boot/pisky.txt and rebooted that should keep it from running I assumed ?
[10:37] <daveake> No
[10:37] <daveake> Like I said, you need to not run the script
[10:39] <daveake> e.g. remove the startup file; change the permissions so it's not executable; don't start it from /etc/init.d
[10:43] <PE2BZ> daveake thanks. I was misunderstanding that the existance of pisky.txt triggered the tracker to either start or not start.
[10:44] <daveake> Well it'll start, note the missing file, and exit with a message
[10:44] <daveake> But that doesn't stop the other software from starting
[10:44] <daveake> which means the camera and aprs scripts
[10:44] <PE2BZ> I did the -x thing ;-)
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[11:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[11:14] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HERMES1 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HERMES1
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[12:11] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS18 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS18
[12:13] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> nice! will comming in over EU on the 6 sep according to the prediction
[12:15] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KK4RPQ-1 after 038 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK4RPQ-1
[12:15] <Laurenceb__> hmd Cambridge hotels are v expensive
[12:15] <Laurenceb__> is anyone staying in Cam overnight for the conference?
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[12:17] <craag> I think quite a few of us are
[12:17] <craag> I'm staying on friday night
[12:19] <russss> I am staying on the saturday night
[12:20] <adamgreig> Laurenceb__: have you used the si446x in packet mode? think you did before the st spirit thing?
[12:21] <craag> I would stay saturday night but need to be in the new forest by 0730 on sunday..
[12:21] <adamgreig> ouch
[12:21] <Laurenceb__> adamgreig: yes
[12:21] <adamgreig> Laurenceb__: did you spend any time investigating the rx filters?
[12:21] <adamgreig> or just used all the WDS suggestions?
[12:22] <Laurenceb__> craag: I live in Derby, it's a pita to get to Cam :-/ Pity as it's nice to get out of London and saves on costs of hosting
[12:22] <Laurenceb__> adamgreig: I played around in matlab
[12:22] <adamgreig> the WDS filters are all low pass, which seems weird considering the rx rf is at some IF rather than baseband
[12:22] <Laurenceb__> lets see...
[12:22] <adamgreig> and I can't make their idea of the filter bandwidth match my own
[12:22] <adamgreig> I suspect the two are related
[12:22] <Laurenceb__> I managed to simulate it in matlab
[12:22] <adamgreig> so I can simulate their filters https://agg.io/u/wds_filters_responses.pdf
[12:22] <adamgreig> and they're very standard low pass filters
[12:22] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[12:23] <adamgreig> but that doesn't make much sense - the RX signal should be at the XO/64 IF
[12:23] <adamgreig> so would have expected bandpass
[12:23] <Laurenceb__> I wouldnt trust the datasheet
[12:23] <adamgreig> definitely not
[12:23] <Laurenceb__> they obfuscate
[12:23] <adamgreig> nevertheless those are the programmed filter coefficients and the signal is definitely not at baseband
[12:24] <Laurenceb__> aiui they have some v clever stuff involving sigma delta and some of the filtering runs on the undemodulated sigma-delta
[12:24] <adamgreig> and even then, the bandwidth of these filters is substantially higher than the bandiwdth WDS suggests they have
[12:24] <Laurenceb__> yeah maybe filter runs after some digital frequency conversion
[12:24] <adamgreig> hmm possibly
[12:25] <Laurenceb__> https://github.com/Laurenceb/STM32_Launcher/blob/master/Silabs/si446x.c
[12:25] <Laurenceb__> yeah likes ~377
[12:25] <Laurenceb__> *lines
[12:26] <Laurenceb__> Used matlab to configure two sets of settings, 1.03kHz and then 0.44kHz after AFC has settled
[12:26] <adamgreig> https://github.com/cuspaceflight/m3-avionics/blob/m3radio/m3radio/firmware/si4460.c#L617-L660
[12:27] <Laurenceb__> that allows good pull in, also the RTTY tx runs at the same frequency, so manual coarse tuning of the uplink is possible
[12:28] <adamgreig> do you have the original coefficients before packing?
[12:28] <adamgreig> eh, I can work them out
[12:28] <Laurenceb__> maybe somewhere...
[12:28] <adamgreig> just curious if your bandwidths are normal
[12:28] <Laurenceb__> I used tfilter.appspot
[12:28] <adamgreig> because the ones silabs have against their filters are quite far off
[12:28] <Laurenceb__> or whatever its called
[12:29] <Laurenceb__> to get slightly wider bandwidth than WDS would allow
[12:29] <adamgreig> I'll have a play
[12:29] <adamgreig> did you do anything else clever while you were at it?
[12:29] <Laurenceb__> also more of a change between AFC mode and normal mode
[12:29] <Laurenceb__> well its all state machine based, prob overkill
[12:29] <Laurenceb__> used gpio for rtty
[12:30] <Laurenceb__> used CRC failure to "hop" to different channels to avoid interference
[12:30] <adamgreig> huh, rather than rssi jump?
[12:31] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[12:31] <Laurenceb__> as it seems to start decoding automatically once it gets high enough rssi
[12:32] <Laurenceb__> and in my experience would always generate CRC failure after a little while
[12:32] <Laurenceb__> so I track CRC failures/time and jump to another channel if it gets too high
[12:32] <adamgreig> how do both ends coordinate jumping?
[12:32] <Laurenceb__> as the RTTY is transmitted on the same channel, its easy to track from the ground
[12:32] <adamgreig> ah
[12:32] <Laurenceb__> for some definitions of "easy"
[12:33] <Laurenceb__> you do have to manually retune, but thats just a couple of keys in the link terminal
[12:33] <Laurenceb__> hopefully it wont happen, especially if $50sat is anything to go by
[12:35] <Laurenceb__> I did have to try some nasty AFC hacks, but the latest revision of the si446x (as of 2015 lol) seems to not need them
[12:35] <adamgreig> you reckon D391 is a better sync than default 2DD4?
[12:35] <Laurenceb__> the AFC tended to behave erratically and wander out of control
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[12:36] <adamgreig> given it actually transmits both bytes in reverse order too
[12:36] <Laurenceb__> this has good autocorrelation 8/1 peak to secondary ratio
[12:36] <Laurenceb__> apparently I do reckon that lol
[12:37] <Laurenceb__> I think I got to about 155dB link budget, but it was very hard to test
[12:37] <Laurenceb__> RF leaks everywhere at those levels
[12:38] <Laurenceb__> def its competitive with lora, and should have much better interference tolerance
[12:39] <Laurenceb__> recently I have seen some 2-PSK transceiver ICs, that would really be something
[12:40] <Laurenceb__> http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/AX5042-D.PDF
[12:40] <adamgreig> the ax5243?
[12:40] <adamgreig> yea
[12:40] <Laurenceb__> FEC too
[12:40] <adamgreig> think 5234 is nicer? http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/AX5243-D.PDF
[12:40] <Laurenceb__> seems like the HAB link god chip
[12:40] <Laurenceb__> checking
[12:40] <Laurenceb__> a while since I looked at this...
[12:40] <adamgreig> not sure what the difference is even lol
[12:43] <Laurenceb__> annyoing lack of PSK specs
[12:43] <adamgreig> yea
[12:43] <Laurenceb__> FSK performance is comparable with si446x
[12:43] <adamgreig> I wonder if the PSK TX is actually the same stupid FSK trick
[12:43] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KEMPSP after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KEMPSP
[12:43] <adamgreig> easy enough to tx reasonable psk from a si446x, just you lose out on the rx side
[12:43] <adamgreig> ax chip seems to have psk rx, so
[12:44] <adamgreig> but given the si chip does IQ rx, seems like it shouldn't be that hard to do
[12:44] <Laurenceb__> PSK seems to gain 3dB
[12:45] <craag> I've got one of richardeoin's ax5243 boards on a pi hooked up to the antennas at the farnham sdr site
[12:45] <craag> I'm looking forward to seeing how well it does
[12:46] <adamgreig> incidentally Laurenceb__ I get 8:3 autocorrelation on D391
[12:47] <Laurenceb__> ooh oops
[12:47] <adamgreig> assuming I'm measuring it right :P but their default one gets 8:4 for the main:secondary, but has generally lower mass and drops away even quicker
[12:47] <Laurenceb__> I didnt actually test this, grabbed from some example
[12:47] <Laurenceb__> ok
[12:48] <adamgreig> http://nbviewer.jupyter.org/urls/agg.io/u/sync.ipynb
[12:48] <Laurenceb__> ok so PSK gains about 3dB, and FEC another 2 or 3
[12:48] <adamgreig> wonder if the FEC is good FEC
[12:48] <adamgreig> wonder if it's got hard or soft information
[12:48] <Laurenceb__> so about 157dB link budget
[12:48] <adamgreig> I'm planning on doing a hard decision LDPC decoder on this
[12:49] <Laurenceb__> but with short packets and packet loss allowed it could probably hit close to 160dB
[12:49] <adamgreig> contemplating doing the stupid thing where you have 8x the RX data rate and it gets you 4 bits of soft-of-soft-information but it's not really very good
[12:49] <Laurenceb__> prob about 5dB better than silabs
[12:50] <adamgreig> wonder why the silabs doesn't do psk
[12:50] <Laurenceb__> well it prob could - its an 8051 core in there
[12:50] <adamgreig> that'd be a good patch
[12:50] <adamgreig> do you apply any of the patches btw
[12:50] <Laurenceb__> apparently it can also be made to output baseband
[12:50] <adamgreig> I think the relevant parts of the rx chain are hardwired
[12:50] <adamgreig> yea I've heard this
[12:50] <adamgreig> well RX IQ anyway
[12:51] <Laurenceb__> yeah I tried the patches to fix the AFC
[12:51] <Laurenceb__> and it didnt help
[12:51] <Laurenceb__> so I gave up on the patches and found some up to date ICs :P
[12:51] <adamgreig> :P
[12:51] <Laurenceb__> and it worked so I was happy without any patches
[12:53] <Laurenceb__> it'd be nice to fly an SDR on a HAB over europe, just to see what it looks like up there
[12:54] <adamgreig> yea
[12:54] <adamgreig> getting the data down again would be fun :P
[12:54] <Laurenceb__> but $50sat suggests that at least in leo it's not as bad on ISM as you might think
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> parafoil to postbox
[12:55] <Laurenceb__> onboard spectrograph image generation and SSDV
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: why would it be worse at orbit than HAB?
[12:56] <Laurenceb__> $50sat was pretty simple compared to any of this silabs code, just picbasic
[12:56] <Laurenceb__> and simple 2fsk and hope rf module
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> Or do you mean that not many HABs have done reception
[12:56] <Laurenceb__> SpeedEvil: wider radio horizon
[12:57] <Laurenceb__> well not many HABs have done reception yeah
[12:57] <adamgreig> Laurenceb__: fwiw 0xd391 has as good an autocorrelation as any other two-byte 8-weight sync word
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[12:57] <SpeedEvil> Wider radio horizon, but you are further from it.
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> I thought it was a wash - for randomly distributed noise sources over an infinite plane
[12:58] <Laurenceb__> adamgreig: interesting
[12:58] <Laurenceb__> but 0xd391 is "cleaner" around the central peak
[12:59] <Laurenceb__> prob why it is suggested by some for sync word use
[12:59] <adamgreig> 2dd4 (the stock) is cleaner
[12:59] <adamgreig> well
[12:59] <adamgreig> yea
[12:59] <adamgreig> it has quite-good 8:2 at shifts of one
[12:59] <adamgreig> whereas d391 has 8:3 at shifts of 1
[12:59] <Laurenceb__> plateau at 2 to 3 for d391
[12:59] <adamgreig> just 2dd4 has 8:4 at shifts of 2
[13:01] <Laurenceb__> SpeedEvil: $50sat makes a nice comparison as its been flying for years with simple 2fsk transceiver onboard
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> It is a good datapoint of 'actually works' ground truth
[13:01] <Laurenceb__> with uplink being barely worse performance wise than free space theory
[13:02] <Laurenceb__> so the "ISM band temperature" of the UK is pretty close to thermal
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> I guess thermal is pretty 'high'
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> from some respects
[13:03] <Laurenceb__> yeah, at HAB altitudes interference might be more problematic
[13:03] <Laurenceb__> its a question of interferer density and power
[13:03] Action: SpeedEvil ponders.
[13:03] <Laurenceb__> compared to thermal which is easy to model
[13:04] <Laurenceb__> actually
[13:04] <Laurenceb__> in space surely noise floor is a lot lower
[13:04] Action: SpeedEvil recently got a wireless doorbell that fails at 4m range.
[13:04] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[13:04] Action: Laurenceb__ didnt appreciate this before
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> I guess it's a non-isotropic distribution of noise sources.
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure what that does
[13:05] <Laurenceb__> monte-carlo to the rescue
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> wideband SDR to a big SD card, recovered would be interesting
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> Or if you're less enegetic, climb a big hill
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> Or more energetic in some ways
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> I guess a peak giving line of sight to a representative town would be good
[13:14] <adamgreig> Laurenceb__: yea I can't really find anything "better" than 0x2DD4 depending on how you count better
[13:14] <adamgreig> so gonna stick with that :P
[13:15] <Laurenceb__> ok
[13:15] <adamgreig> anyway still baffled by the filters all being LPF and having weird bandwidths
[13:15] <adamgreig> going to see what yours looks like
[13:16] <Laurenceb__> https://github.com/Laurenceb/STM32_Launcher/blob/master/Silabs/Config_dev/Silabs_Custom_950hz_Lowgain.png
[13:17] <Laurenceb__> thats the stock WDS filter, I made it a bit wider
[13:18] <adamgreig> do you know which stock wds filter that was? there are 15
[13:18] <Laurenceb__> the widest one I could get lol
[13:18] <adamgreig> doesn't look like it
[13:19] <Laurenceb__> it seemed impossible to get the change I needed between pre and post AFC
[13:19] <Laurenceb__> thats why I changed the filters
[13:19] <adamgreig> its -3dB is like 0.22 which is .69 ish digital freq, which looks like their #4
[13:20] <Laurenceb__> interesting
[13:21] <Laurenceb__> I just went straight to matlab after being annoyed by the choice of filters
[13:21] <Laurenceb__> maybe I could have copy and pasted setting from another configuration
[13:21] <adamgreig> did you test that what you observe matches your bandwidth in matlab?
[13:21] <Laurenceb__> it was a bit hard to test
[13:22] <adamgreig> just backing out your coefficients now but it seems like the actual filter bandwidth is quite different to the one WDS thinks it is, with a few assumptions about the digital sample rate
[13:22] <Laurenceb__> real world performance is def close
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[13:46] <adamgreig> your filters are pretty funky lol Laurenceb__
[13:48] <adamgreig> hmm no don't think I'm quite extracting them right
[13:49] <Laurenceb__> I've got to have the matlab code.. somewhere
[13:49] <Laurenceb__> I kind of stopped archiving once it works
[13:50] <adamgreig> fixed it, just an off by one
[13:50] <adamgreig> they look fairly sensible
[13:51] <Laurenceb__> yeah they are close to the WDS filters
[13:51] <adamgreig> https://agg.io/u/laurenceb_filters.pdf
[13:51] <Laurenceb__> but I thought I could stretch it out a bit for AFC
[13:51] <adamgreig> vs https://agg.io/u/wds_filters_responses.pdf
[13:51] <adamgreig> so you say they're 1.03kHz and then 0.44kHz
[13:52] <Laurenceb__> hmm looks like filter1
[13:52] <Laurenceb__> I'm confused now
[13:52] <adamgreig> their -3dB digital frequencies are 0.884 and 0.423 which is not quite the same ratio
[13:53] <adamgreig> but maybe you're not looking at -3dB cutoff?
[13:53] <adamgreig> oh yea... your filter #1 is identical to WDS filter #1
[13:53] <Laurenceb__> I def used custom filter
[13:53] <adamgreig> and your #2 is identical to WDS #9
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[13:54] <adamgreig> I mean, it's possible you just did the exact same design step as the wds people, but those bytes in your si446x.c are an exact match :P
[13:54] <Laurenceb__> time for blame/history
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[13:56] <Laurenceb__> https://github.com/Laurenceb/STM32_Launcher/commit/dad782e587a6c261ca16e158a6a9b360666ed864
[13:56] <Laurenceb__> lol I can't remember what happened
[13:58] <Laurenceb__> ah ok found my notebook
[13:58] <Laurenceb__> yeah I got annoyed by WDS, but found the WDS filters are very well designed
[13:58] <adamgreig> they seem to just be standard raised cosine filters
[13:59] <Laurenceb__> so copied out all the filters as you have done and then swapped them back in, avoiding using all the WDS config
[13:59] <adamgreig> normalised to the same gain, at various roloff parameters
[13:59] <adamgreig> basically same thing as taking firwin() with a rectangle
[13:59] <Laurenceb__> I wasn't able to produce filters in tfilter that I thought were better, although I did get slightly wider than filter1
[14:00] <adamgreig> my concern is I still don't see why they're LPF not BPF and I can't work out how they say what the filter BW is :P
[14:00] <Laurenceb__> but by scaling the stated bandwidth from WDS with the filter swap I could work out my actual bandwidth
[14:00] <Laurenceb__> thats where the figures in the code came from
[14:01] <Laurenceb__> but yeah, unless you want to go really wide for some reason, use one of the WDS filters, as they are very well designed
[14:01] <Laurenceb__> there are quantisation effects and stuff to consider, looks like silabs engineers know their stuff
[14:02] <adamgreig> the WDS filters cover pretty much the whole useful range of widths, you can change the RX sample rate dramatically by using the decimators, so you can really hit pretty much whatever width you want
[14:02] <Laurenceb__> once I added quantisation, my filters always seemed to have worse ripple, looks hard to get it right
[14:02] <adamgreig> I'm more interested in a) generating the filters at runtime from a desired RX BW and b) understanding where their BW figures come from
[14:02] <Laurenceb__> yeah but AFC cant swap the decimator I dont think
[14:03] <adamgreig> indeed
[14:03] <adamgreig> the gear switch doesn't change decimator
[14:03] <adamgreig> but the ratio between filter 1 and filter 15 is huge
[14:03] <adamgreig> it's like 1/4 the width
[14:04] <adamgreig> so unless you wanna do something very weird..
[14:04] <Laurenceb__> yeah, as long as you can find a decimator setting that sync well
[14:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD5GOM-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD5GOM-11
[14:04] <Laurenceb__> but playing with WDS then poss swapping out one or more of its recommended filters always seems to be good enough for what I wanted
[14:05] <Laurenceb__> which was v large AFC pull in range
[14:06] <Laurenceb__> there has got to be some digital mixing going on before the LPF
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[14:06] <adamgreig> yea agreed
[14:06] <Laurenceb__> prob digital mixing -> decimation dependant low pass -> decimator -> LPF
[14:07] <Laurenceb__> that is how cc1020 works
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[14:08] <Laurenceb__> should be possible to work out the decimated sample rate from the stated bandwidth in WDS and the filter model
[14:08] <adamgreig> decimated sample rate is easy
[14:08] <adamgreig> I do that anyway to automatically set the OSR and OFFSET for BCR
[14:08] <Laurenceb__> ah I didnt get that far down the rabbit hole :D
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[14:10] <Laurenceb__> well to generate at runtime you could use something like t-filter
[14:10] <Laurenceb__> but its pretty cpu intensive
[14:10] <Laurenceb__> prob just look up table of the WDS filters would be good enough?
[14:10] <adamgreig> I've written dsp for generating filters at runtime
[14:11] <adamgreig> don't really need t-filter :P
[14:11] <adamgreig> don't have matlab at runtime anyway, this is onboard the stm32
[14:11] <adamgreig> lookup table would work but less fun and still doesn't resolve the bw question
[14:13] <Laurenceb__> impressive work
[14:14] <adamgreig> it's ntb, you basically just do a single DFT and a bit of fiddling
[14:14] <adamgreig> https://github.com/adamgreig/sdr-rs/blob/master/src/fir.rs#L370
[14:14] <adamgreig> and some quantising carefulness and so on
[14:14] <Laurenceb__> ah, I was thinking an iterative technique
[14:15] <Laurenceb__> is that rust?
[14:15] <adamgreig> yea
[14:15] <adamgreig> I think you could do some fun iterating it too, it's fast enough to have a handful of iterations
[14:15] <Laurenceb__> compiling for stm32?
[14:15] <adamgreig> sure
[14:15] <adamgreig> I mean right now I'm not running that code on this stm32
[14:16] <adamgreig> but in general it's fairly straightforward to build rust libraries for stm32
[14:16] <Laurenceb__> sounds interesting
[14:16] <adamgreig> you basically just tell it to target arm-none-eabi-v7mhf or whatever
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[14:16] <adamgreig> and it builds a .a that you can link in as normal
[14:16] <adamgreig> quite appealing
[14:16] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[14:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PI434 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI434
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[14:36] <Laurenceb__> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Amos+6
[14:36] <Laurenceb__> ^ironic
[14:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BALLOONOLO-CHASE_CAR - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALLOONOLO-CHASE_CAR
[14:45] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BALLOONOLO-7_LORA after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALLOONOLO-7_LORA
[14:47] <Laurenceb__> especially as it was actually meant to be a biblical reference
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[14:51] <adamgreig> weird, the ratios of bandwidths are a much closer match at 1.5dB than 3dB
[14:56] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BALLOONOLO-7 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALLOONOLO-7
[14:57] <Laurenceb__> adamgreig: maybe they are using amplitude^2
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[14:57] <adamgreig> so the normalised bandwidths they use match mine at -1.63dB abs(h)
[14:57] <adamgreig> I'm using amplitude^2 too, it's the normal thing?
[14:58] <adamgreig> well I'm using magnitude
[14:58] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[14:58] <Laurenceb__> sounds about right to me
[14:58] <adamgreig> it's pretty much the same at -1.5dB
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[15:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VE1HAB - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE1HAB
[15:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BALLOONOLO-7_LORA - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALLOONOLO-7_LORA
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[15:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD4STH-7 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD4STH-7
[15:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD4STH-9 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD4STH-9
[15:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BALLOONOLO-7_LORA - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALLOONOLO-7_LORA
[15:30] gb73d (~gb73d@host-78-147-238-100.as13285.net) left irc:
[15:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VA6BER-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VA6BER-11
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[15:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BALLOONOLO-7_LORA - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALLOONOLO-7_LORA
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[16:11] <Rebounder> ome gps hickup with ballooonolo...
[16:12] <Laurenceb__> !whereis ubseds-18
[16:12] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb__: I haven't got a clue
[16:12] <Laurenceb__> !whereis UBSEDS18
[16:12] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb__: 03UBSEDS18 is over 03Piscataquis County, ME, USA 10(46.26349,-69.39615) at 0313294 meters
[16:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BALLOONOLO-7_LORA - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALLOONOLO-7_LORA
[16:28] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
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[16:55] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03MIKEL-3 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MIKEL-3
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[17:41] <AndyEsser> FT817 ordered :)
[17:41] <AndyEsser> craag: should be with me on Wednesday, so plenty of time to test it ahead of the conference
[17:41] <craag> :)
[17:42] <PE2BZ> AndyEsser test passed ? Or not this weekend ?
[17:42] <AndyEsser> that's next weekend
[17:42] <AndyEsser> at the UKHAS conference
[17:42] <AndyEsser> when you notice everyone is very quiet on here ;)
[17:43] <AndyEsser> speaking of - will the conference be recorded/livestreamed?
[17:43] <russss> it has been in the past, so probably.
[17:43] <russss> I'm not sure who's involved in that
[17:44] <craag> It was steve last year - I assume he'll be doing it again.
[17:44] <russss> actually I probably want to know who's involved in that because we are considering establishing a shared pool of equipment for video streaming non-profit conferences.
[17:46] <craag> I'd be interested in hearing more about that (I do streaming of ham radio stuff as part of british amateur television club)
[17:46] <russss> so at EMF this year we used the CCC's kit from Germany https://c3voc.de/
[17:47] <craag> yeah I saw some of that when I was setting up the stages
[17:47] <AndyEsser> russss: do you add an extra s to your name randomly?
[17:47] <russss> they have more info here: https://c3voc.de/wiki/
[17:47] <russss> AndyEsser: it's always 4
[17:47] <AndyEsser> interesting - thought it was 3 :)
[17:47] <AndyEsser> haha
[17:47] <AndyEsser> I have a meeting at Hawarden Airport tomorrow to kick off my flying lesons :)
[17:48] <PE2BZ> AndyEsser good luck in advance. Next weekend is fox hunt HAB in the Netherlands. Hope the wind turns in time
[17:48] <AndyEsser> o fun!
[17:49] <russss> anyway we were thinking of starting a pool of that kit in the UK, as we know quite a few conferences which do their own streaming with various levels of sophistication
[17:49] <russss> but the c3voc stuff is *good*.
[17:49] <craag> it is!
[17:50] <russss> also c3voc can basically run the operations side of things remotely for smaller conferences.
[17:50] <russss> their backend stuff is pretty impressive too
[17:50] <craag> we're rather basic in comparison - a couple of hdmi cameras on sdi converters, atem tvs for mixing and recording, then blackmagic capture card and FMLE for streaming out.
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[17:52] <AndyEsser> craag: good lord that takes me back
[17:53] <russss> well, the setup they now use for most events is an IP framegrabber for screen capture, a camera with SDI output, a PC with SDI input for the camera, and a laptop for doing the mixing using their own software.
[17:54] <russss> https://github.com/voc/voctomix
[17:54] <craag> I'd love to get rid of FMLE, causes over half our onsite problems.
[17:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Oxizinho_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Oxizinho_chase
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[17:55] <russss> craag: I think VOC will be happy to let you use their live streaming CDN, especially if you use their mixing software.
[17:56] <craag> Also our main weak point is the lack of DVE in the atem - no PiP ;(
[17:56] <craag> We've got a decent streaming backend setup
[17:56] <craag> Well, I'd like to think so, I built it :)
[17:57] <craag> heh nearly identical to theirs :D
[17:59] <russss> so (almost?) all their stuff is open source https://github.com/voc
[17:59] <craag> yeah nice
[18:04] <craag> It's unlikely the BATC would like to be involved, which is a shame - but I'll be interested to hear how you get on
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[19:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03OM4AOZ_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=OM4AOZ_chase
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[19:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening All !
[20:00] <Rebounder> evening!
[20:05] <Vaizki> all!
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[20:43] <amell> What is 15:00 Scheduled Talk Subject to Official Approval?
[20:46] <amell> and who else is doing foundation next weekend?
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[21:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> https://hackaday.io/project/12715-tritium-nuclear-battery-betaphotovoltaic
[21:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
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[21:37] <amell> SP9UOB-Tom: good one that. Nuclear HAB project?
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[21:42] <richardeoin> amell: it takes ~5J to get a gps lock and transmit an APRS packet
[21:42] <richardeoin> so once every 2 years with that nuclear battery?
[21:43] <richardeoin> assuming you have one of those magic non-leaky capacitors
[21:43] <amell> Well, you could parallise them...
[21:43] <richardeoin> sure
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> they are almost useless
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> It takes quite a modest lithium battery to exceed them
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[21:47] <SpeedEvil> - out to two or more half livvvs
[21:48] <Laurenceb__> long wave IR power is maybe possible
[21:48] <Laurenceb__> one day I will write a proper sim
[21:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> ;-)
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> that too
[21:49] <Laurenceb__> IR flux at ~12km is only a bit lower than solar and its there 24/7
[21:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> Laurenceb__: Earth IR radiation ?
[21:50] <Laurenceb__> yes
[21:50] <Laurenceb__> well averaged 24/7 its about the same
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[21:50] <Laurenceb__> or the earth would overheat (ignoring albedo)
[21:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> so ir sensitive panels facing down
[21:51] <Laurenceb__> no such thing exists
[21:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> peltier ;-)
[21:51] <Laurenceb__> yup
[21:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> with ideal black "hot" surace
[21:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> *surface
[21:52] <Laurenceb__> yeah my idea was black surfaces top and bottom with aerogel in the middle
[21:52] <Laurenceb__> back of envelope suggested 10cm diameter ~4mm spacing would generate ~10mW
[21:52] <Laurenceb__> helps to use graphene as the sheets
[21:53] <Laurenceb__> you can buy it from mouser/digikey at ok prices
[21:53] <Laurenceb__> 1000W/mK conductivity, much higher than copper
[21:59] <Laurenceb__> https://graphene-supermarket.com/Conductive-Graphene-Sheets.html
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[22:01] <Laurenceb__> you can get it cheaper than that lol
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[22:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KE8CIF-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KE8CIF-11
[22:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03S-17 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-17
[22:42] <amell> talking of nuclear batteries. Im sure there was a nuclear pacemaker at one time
[22:43] <amell> http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/miscellaneous/pacemaker.htm
[22:43] <amell> yep. the infamous plutonium pacemaker :)
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[23:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[00:00] --- Mon Sep 5 2016