highaltitude.log.20160826

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[06:04] <BubUK> bonnet de douche
[06:06] <TT7> morning
[06:07] <TT7> TT7F's balloon is filled
[06:08] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03TT7F after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TT7F
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[06:12] <BubUK> excellent, nice day for a flight, it is here at least
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[06:14] <DL7AD_> good morning
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[06:15] <DL7AD_> we are going to launch solar balloons here in berlin tomorrow https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/GDErW_X7mWU
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[06:22] <TT7> about to launch
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[06:33] <Vaizki> good luck!
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[06:34] <Vaizki> going up slow.. 2m/s or so
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[06:45] <TT7> thanks! hopefully will pick up the pace
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[07:22] <TT7> the live prediction in the tracker requires some conditions to turn on?
[07:24] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5KMP-6 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5KMP-6
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[07:43] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Pooja_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Pooja_chase
[07:44] <BubUK> why doesnt my lora gateway send sms uplinks ;-(((
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[07:45] <M0RJX> morning all
[07:46] <fsphil> g'morn
[07:47] <fsphil> friday yay
[07:47] <M0RJX> Yay
[07:47] <M0RJX> Fly home tonight
[07:47] <M0RJX> To a different computer :-)
[07:48] <fsphil> hah. get away from all that annoying sunshine
[07:52] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-3 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-3
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[08:11] <TT7> I'm watching TT7F with binoculars.. it's good visibility today over here :)
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[08:12] <TT7> and thank you to Poland for tracking
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[08:17] <fsphil> TT7: live predictor was causing problems, it's been disabled for the moment
[08:20] <TT7> fsphil: understood
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[08:32] <TT7> TT7F now visible with the naked eye
[08:45] <Ian_> DL7AD Good morning Sven. You can't help to have noticed Rob's (M0RJX) holiday opus on the SSDV side of the shop. Best you confirm that all is working well for you ahead of tomorrow's launch. After all your testing a while ago, I would hate for you to have any issues.
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[08:48] <Ian_> Fingers crossed, but better to be safe than sorry. Aerocene sounds like you are also pushing new boundaries - free flight, no gas! That has to be a cost point saving for sure.
[08:48] <fsphil> Ian_: it's not using lora
[08:49] <Ian_> OK, I wasn't sure, but remember that he put lot of high speed ssdv work in. Many thanks fsphil.
[08:49] <fsphil> yeah I did some server side tweaks
[08:50] <Ian_> Wasn't also sure that the ssdv mods were exclusively LoRa. I don't see Rob's name on the Conference list yet!
[08:51] <fsphil> the bulk import will be for any mode, but really rtty/afsk isn't going to take advantage of that :)
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[08:52] <fsphil> well, unless someone tries 115200b/s rtty
[08:52] <jakeio> Would it be worthwhile shifting my LoRa transmitter frequency just above or below 868MHz, to avoid other people on the band?
[08:53] <fsphil> Ian_: he's just above sven
[08:53] <Ian_> I have a LoRa board, small 6ele yagi and a RP0, so need to get something lashed together to help receive and get myself on the map.
[08:55] <Ian_> Rgr on the list entry. Just got proofs for my improved honey label so have given the go ahead for a label run. Gonna ask if I can use the label for the back of my Conference t-shirt, even if there is a donation required to do so.
[08:57] <jakeio> Ian_, will you be able to track tomorrow? I'm launching a LoRa payload tomorrow.
[08:58] <Ian_> jakeio, if your flight is already announced in the mailing list, then stick with it unless you have other signals giving you grief on the current frequency or there are other flights announced in the same time frame. No, I don't get things put together that fast I'm afraid. Location UK West Midlands
[08:58] <Ian_> Good luck on the flight
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[09:00] <jakeio> I've just been looking on the IR 2030 (http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/spectrum-policy-area/spectrum-management/research-guidelines-tech-info/interface-requirements/IR_2030-june2014.pdf) and I'm a little confused as to what the "Techniques to access spectrum and mitigate interference that provides at least equivalent performance to the techniques described in harmonised standards adopted under
[09:00] <jakeio> Directive 199/5/EC" actually means.
[09:00] <M0RJX> Ian_, I've paid via paypal
[09:00] <M0RJX> Getting a lift down with anthoby
[09:01] <M0RJX> Anthony
[09:01] <craag> jakeio: is this on 868?
[09:01] <jakeio> Yarp.
[09:01] <craag> If so, it means using techniques such as LBT (listen before talk)
[09:01] <craag> they are described if you dig down through references enough
[09:02] <jakeio> Oh, I don't do that. So, I'll use the 868.70-870.00MHz band with no restrictions.
[09:02] <M0RJX> Ahh just seen fsphil's comment
[09:02] <jakeio> This brings me to my next question...
[09:02] <Ian_> It's my attention span, I merely missed you in the list Rob. I think that we need to talk about the Conference as there must be people still to book and Steve will be looking for final numbers for the catering.
[09:02] <M0RJX> Do we have a LoRa launch to day ?
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[09:03] <M0RJX> Hey BubUK welcome back
[09:03] <Ian_> Yes, I feel that fsphil likes to earn his honey by being assistive technology to those that need it . . . ;)
[09:04] <M0RJX> You wil be pleased to know I have coded a fix for all future /r's in files
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[09:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03S-17 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-17
[09:04] <jakeio> So, on the LoRa radios, can someone help my understand the meaning of the Pmax and Pout values given in the HopeRF datasheet. And how they relate to the ERP?
[09:04] <Ian_> Looking forward to putting faces to names.
[09:09] <fsphil> Ian_: hah
[09:09] <Ian_> On the list :)
[09:11] <mfa298> jakeio: there are some good guides on converting dBm to mW id thats what you need, the hackrf decibels video isn't bad forthat
[09:12] <jakeio> mfa298, sorry, that's not what I mean, what I need to know is what those two values in the datasheet mean and how I can ensure I get 5mW ERP output from the LoRa, because I'm currently unsure if it's right!
[09:13] <fsphil> the datasheet gives you a formula
[09:13] <mfa298> but as a simple option 1dBm == 1mW, every 10dB you add a zero to the end, every 3dB you double, so 26dBm would be 400mW (1 *10 *10 *2 *2)
[09:13] <jakeio> OK, so the datasheet formula is indeed a formula for the ERP?
[09:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> ERP takes into account aerial gain
[09:14] <jakeio> Yes, I thought so, sorry if I'm being a bit of a noob!
[09:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> I would be suprised if it took that into account much more likely to be just Power output
[09:15] <jakeio> Right, that's what I had previously thought.
[09:15] <jakeio> Sorry!
[09:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> nps
[09:17] <jakeio> mfa298, so, would I need about 7-8dBm then in order to get 5mW? Without taking into account antenna gain?
[09:18] <mfa298> 7dBm should be 5mW
[09:19] <jakeio> OK, but then, how can I calculate the gain from my antenna?
[09:19] <jakeio> Thank you all btw!
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[09:20] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> If its a commercial aerial then it will quote an aerial gain either compared to Isotropic or Dipole
[09:20] <jakeio> Ah, it's a homemade quarter wave!
[09:20] <mfa298> if it's a ground plane I'd guess it's no more than a dipole so probably around 2dBi
[09:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Then its look up the likely values but yes 2dBi is the right order
[09:22] <mfa298> alternatively assume antenna gain matches your cable losses and dont care too much about it (not the correct solution, but what most people tend to do)
[09:22] <M0RJX> :-)
[09:23] <M0RJX> Like it
[09:23] <Ian_> That sounds to be the Occam's razor result losses = gain :)
[09:24] <Ian_> Any error less than 10% isn't likely to be significant, even on the bench.
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[09:28] <jakeio> OK. Well, I'll just do that and count on the fact that there's no way Ofcom are watching me :P
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[09:31] <fsphil> just don't interfere with a commercial operator and you'll be alright </not legal advice, or good advice in general>
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[09:33] <jakeio> So, I just want Pout to be 7dBm and I don't care about Pmax?
[09:39] <jakeio> Is there any way of measuring my output power to be sure?
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[09:39] <TT7> TT7F burst... saw it with the binoculars
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[09:40] <pb0ahx> !flights
[09:40] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03TT7F 10(6dad)
[09:41] <pb0ahx> !dial 6dad
[09:41] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 03TT7F 10(6dad): none
[09:41] <pb0ahx> !payload 6dad
[09:41] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Payload 03TT7F 10(6dad) 03$$TT7F - 03primary - 03434.287 MHz USB 03RTTY 100/450Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[09:42] <TT7> hmm descending way too quickly
[09:52] <edmoore> Darkside: why don't you think you'll get the range?
[09:53] <Darkside> well i guess my concern is more about fading
[09:53] <Darkside> i'm also yet to do a line of sight tet
[09:53] <Darkside> we've done tests on the bench where i can rx a -106dbm signal with a rtlsdr and a lna
[09:53] <edmoore> have you got much info about uhf channels?
[09:53] <Darkside> so at least theres that
[09:53] <Darkside> thats 70km of range with a 100mW transmitter
[09:53] <Darkside> and no gain on either end
[09:53] <Darkside> (reasonable approximation for wht we'll be doing while driving)
[09:54] <Darkside> i somehow suspect that to get decent images we will need a stationary listener, with a yagi
[09:54] <fsphil> interleaving helpful?
[09:55] <Darkside> i think interleaving + FEC will help lot
[09:55] <Darkside> a lot*
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[09:55] <Darkside> i just havent really had a go at implementing anything yet
[09:56] <edmoore> summer gets in the way
[09:56] <Darkside> work + all the other amateur radio things i'm involved with et in the way
[09:56] <Darkside> and, y'know, prepping the *main* payloads for the launch
[09:56] <Darkside> and all the chase car guff that goes along with that
[09:56] <Darkside> this payload is secondary to all that stuff
[09:57] <Darkside> and may not even be flown next launch
[09:58] <edmoore> :)
[09:58] <Darkside> customers payloads take priority
[09:58] <Darkside> well, those and the primary telemetry + cutdown
[09:59] <Darkside> if we can handle another 170g then this payload gets added on
[09:59] <edmoore> who are you flying for?
[09:59] <Darkside> educational group
[09:59] <Darkside> some cubesat-like payloads
[10:00] <Darkside> 3d printed framework, cameras, datalogging
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[10:00] <edmoore> nice
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[10:02] <jakeio> On Gqrx, using FunCube, it appears that the signal strength is jumping by about 14dBm, wouldn't that be about 25mW? Or is this a terrible way to measure signal strength?
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[10:02] <Darkside> jakeio: a fairly terrible way
[10:02] <jakeio> OK.
[10:02] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> i wouldn't put much faith in sucha reading, without having calibrated it
[10:02] <Darkside> what he said
[10:03] <jakeio> OK, I'm just really paranoid that I'm outputting something at higher power than is legal.
[10:03] <Darkside> don't fret about it
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[10:03] <Darkside> (says the person flying in a country with effectively no tx power limits)
[10:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> quite, if you were running double the power its only 3dB more st the end of the dy
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[10:05] <Ian_> Darkside is your cutdown pyro or hotwire?
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[10:05] <Darkside> Ian_: will be flying hotwire this time
[10:05] <Darkside> have flown pyro cutdown before, but had a failure on the last flight
[10:06] <Darkside> pretty sure i know what the cause is (thanks edmoore), but i need to more testing before i'm confident of flying it again
[10:06] <craag> jakeio: ofcom won't look unless they got a report of harmful interference
[10:06] <Darkside> the hotwire cutdown we're very confident in, its just about 40g heavier than the pyro cutdown
[10:07] <Ian_> It's always something that intrigues me. Unfortunately the cut needs to be above the chute, which seems to present me with a practicality conundrum of power/weight in the wrong place.
[10:07] <edmoore> yep
[10:07] <edmoore> running a lot of current up long thin wires to the chute apex is annoying
[10:08] <Darkside> erm
[10:08] <Darkside> well
[10:08] <Darkside> we put the cutdown above the chute
[10:08] <Darkside> >_>
[10:08] <Darkside> chute still opens fine
[10:09] <Darkside> maybe a little bit less effectiveness
[10:09] <Darkside> but we've been doing that trick for probably... 20 launches now?
[10:09] <Darkside> maybe 15
[10:10] <Darkside> the cutdown payload inverts on the way down of course, but i wouldnt hold that against it
[10:10] <Darkside> still does the job
[10:14] <Ian_> Dedicated AAA Ultiate Lithium, short hotwire coil around section of suspension cord passing through a small insulated jacket?
[10:14] <Darkside> hrm
[10:14] <Darkside> not what we do
[10:14] <Darkside> ill find the video..
[10:14] <Ian_> Nightmare
[10:15] <Darkside> https://vimeo.com/46031355
[10:15] <Darkside> we dont use that telemetry system anymore
[10:15] <Darkside> but the cutdown is the same mechanism
[10:15] Action: Ian_ off to watch thanks
[10:15] <Darkside> theres a very short clip of the cutdown
[10:16] <Darkside> about 00:50 in
[10:16] <Darkside> man we need to make more of these videos
[10:17] <Darkside> grant did an excellent job of these
[10:17] <edmoore> yeah
[10:17] <edmoore> superb
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[10:17] <Darkside> that launch was actually a test of another way ofconfiguring the parachute
[10:18] <Darkside> where it was hanging off the side of the main string
[10:18] <Darkside> problem with that was it kind of 'steered' the payload on descent
[10:20] <Darkside> https://vimeo.com/153665896
[10:20] <Darkside> huh, he did do some recent ones
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[10:58] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DL7AD-11 after 0318 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL7AD-11
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[11:01] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[11:17] <BubUK> M0RJX: great to hear that it wont happen again ;-
[11:18] <M0RJX> BubUK, that was hard work yesterday
[11:18] <BubUK> yes, it sure was. I wouldnt have thought that it was even possible. odd that nano/vim didn't show it either
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[11:19] <fsphil> I bet vim did :)
[11:19] <fsphil> the default config on fedora does
[11:20] <BubUK> all it showed was the usual $ on the end of each line usig set: list
[11:21] <fsphil> http://i.imgur.com/FGlK0GW.png
[11:21] <fsphil> bottom left
[11:22] <dbrooke> here vim shows: "gateway-sample.txt" [noeol][dos] 40L, 565C
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[11:22] <BubUK> well, all okay now, thanks to M0RJX and davea's help.
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[11:23] <BubUK> a quick dos2unix and all sorted ;-
[11:23] <fsphil> not sure if we can blame bill gates, but probably safe to
[11:23] <BubUK> all i need to do now is get the gateway uplink working. ive checked and rechecked and it just wont send
[11:24] <BubUK> bound to be gates's fault somewhere along the line
[11:24] <dbrooke> my gateway.txt predates the sample file so had the correct (unix) line endings
[11:24] <dbrooke> fsphil: always
[11:24] <BubUK> i wouldnt mind but i dont even have a windows machine!
[11:24] <M0RJX> dbrooke, hexdum -c <file>
[11:24] <M0RJX> hexdump
[11:24] <fsphil> a leftover from the days of teletype printers apparently
[11:25] <dbrooke> looks like it happened upstream as I've never touched the sample file
[11:25] <BubUK> very useful. not. haha.
[11:25] <fsphil> where it needed both to position the head correctly
[11:25] <dbrooke> M0RJX: yes, that shows the \r in there
[11:26] <BubUK> pity we didnt think of hexdump first really ...
[11:26] <fsphil> msdos got it from cp/m
[11:26] <fsphil> so can't totally blame bill
[11:26] <BubUK> lets just agree to blame him anyway
[11:26] <fsphil> yes
[11:26] <fsphil> early macs used something else iirc
[11:27] <BubUK> does anyone have a lora tracker/gateway that works with the uplink ?
[11:27] <Darkside> i do..
[11:27] <Darkside> but my system is incompatible with dave;s
[11:27] <M0RJX> BubUK, not me not sure how that bit works yet
[11:28] <Darkside> i kind of did development on my uplink system in parallel with dave's work
[11:28] <Darkside> though i build the tracker code off his flextrack system
[11:28] <Darkside> ground station is all mine though...
[11:30] <dbrooke> generally VCSs (like git) use a single internal representation and the clients convert line endings appropriately for the OS in use. Things like editing on shared file systems across OSs can result in problems ...
[11:31] <BubUK> it looks pretty straightforward, just cant seem to get it working. i'll have to bother dave again ;-) lets hope his patience doesn't run out just yet...
[11:33] <dbrooke> I did have uplink working for the SSDV fill requests but haven't looked at the text uplink
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[11:39] Nick change: labjg_ -> labjg
[11:47] <labjg> Hi everyone
[11:47] <Darkside> aaaand he's back
[11:47] <Darkside> :P
[11:47] <labjg> :)
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[11:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP9UOB-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB-11
[12:00] <Darkside> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FL3823135&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[12:00] <Darkside> that one is rocking along nicely...
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[12:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DO2JMG-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DO2JMG-11
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[12:53] <Vaizki> hmmh so in the tracker.habhub.org page when I use it on a Win7 + Chrome laptop there is a setting "Mobile Station".. doesn't seem to do anything?
[12:55] <mfa298> you might need to tell chrome to allow location data, then it may show you where you are.
[12:55] <Vaizki> oh it shows where I am if I click the crosshairs in the top bar
[12:55] <mfa298> although on one machine here it gets it right (on wifi) and one is wrong (on ethernet)
[12:55] <mfa298> and I bet if I took my AP somewhere else it would still show my current location
[12:55] <Vaizki> this is a Panasonic CF-19 (toughbook) with built-in ublox
[12:56] <mfa298> I think the Mobile station optino on the tracker might make you into a chase car
[12:56] <Vaizki> so the position is ok and as said and my "mens toilet icon" is in the right place
[12:57] <Vaizki> mfa298, well no it doesn't seem to do anything :)
[12:57] <edmoore> is there a cross platform location library for computers?
[12:57] <edmoore> that provides the 'where are you' answer to things like that
[12:57] <Vaizki> no but there's a JavaScript API
[12:57] <Vaizki> which browsers implement
[12:58] <Vaizki> and Windows has location services that the browser can access.. and linux has GPSd I think
[12:58] <mfa298> Vaizki: you might find it's only based on AP data rather than using the internal GPS, althoguh that will be a chrome/windows thing
[12:59] <Vaizki> hmmh could be but this is in a boat.. out at sea :)
[13:00] <Vaizki> well I will investigate
[13:00] <Vaizki> just wondering what the Mobile Station choice does
[13:00] <Vaizki> too lazy to read the source
[13:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> It makes you into a Chase car
[13:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> your grow black rubber wheels on youtr feet ....
[13:06] <Vaizki> yes well I read the source.. mobile.js is minified.. ugh.. anyway, seems like it SHOULD put me into chase car mode but not working for some reason
[13:06] <Vaizki> I will debug later, gotta run&
[13:07] <mfa298> map seems to think you've not been seen for 6 hours, although that's a radio antenna so might not mean much
[13:08] <Vaizki> well there is no place to put in a chase car name either in the web layout
[13:08] <Vaizki> and I've no idea how to force the mobile phone layout on a desktop
[13:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Vaizki_Boat_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Vaizki_Boat_chase
[13:09] <Vaizki> hehe
[13:09] <mfa298> needs a better icon
[13:09] <Vaizki> ok I went into chrome developer mode and enabeld mobile touch screen device emulation
[13:09] <mfa298> unless you have a particular lotus
[13:10] <Vaizki> that way it works.. no, my lotus is a flower sorry ;)
[13:10] <Vaizki> anyway.. off i go&
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[13:25] <M0RJX> !flights
[13:25] <SpacenearUS> 03M0RJX: Current flights: 03TT7F 10(6dad)
[13:25] <M0RJX> !link TT7f
[13:26] <M0RJX> !list TT7f
[13:26] <M0RJX> !track TT7f
[13:26] <SpacenearUS> 03M0RJX: Here you go - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TT7f
[13:26] <M0RJX> :-)
[13:27] <M0RJX> Any lora due this w/e ?
[13:28] <mfa298> I think jakieo's flights have lora
[13:28] <M0RJX> Ooh nice I shall look forward to them
[13:28] <M0RJX> any idea where in the uk / world ?
[13:28] <fsphil> it's on 869mhz
[13:28] <mfa298> there was a post on the list earlier, although I only skimmed it
[13:29] <M0RJX> !mailing list
[13:29] <fsphil> launching from Monmouth
[13:29] <M0RJX> Hope full :-)
[13:29] Action: mfa298 wonders if the order from upu will arrive in time to setup a lora-gw tomorrow
[13:30] <M0RJX> near dave
[13:30] <M0RJX> I'll get my yagi out and prey
[13:31] <M0RJX> or is that pray
[13:31] <M0RJX> :-) Sp not my strong point :-/
[13:32] <M0RJX> not typing if it comes to that
[13:32] <M0RJX> nor
[13:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
[13:35] <fsphil> the signal is your prey
[13:39] <M0RJX> daveake, how id the 1.8 release doing?
[13:40] <M0RJX> /s/d/s
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[13:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> Do we have full details of the LoRa parameters for SKIPI2 ? its missing the SF and Implicit/Explicit and its not a standard mode ??
[13:43] <samme> Hi. is it necessary to include the command in https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6 to set the gps module to flight mode if I have already set it on u-center software to airborne dynamic mode?
[13:45] <craag> samme: The MAX modules will lose the setting whenever they lose power
[13:46] <craag> Hence you will need to set it whenever your payload boots, and ideally you should also check it at intervals to make sure the GPS hasn't been power cycled and hence lost it again.
[13:46] <samme> so meaning it can be set to airbone mode on u-center prior to the flight?
[13:47] <craag> it can't be
[13:47] <craag> as soon as you disconnect power, it'll reset
[13:48] <samme> what if the board was powered using external power source and using A to B cable I set the flight mode and disconnect it once done?
[13:49] <craag> If the payload has a rough time in flight, it may mementarily lose power and reboot
[13:49] <craag> this often happens at burst
[13:50] <samme> hmmm so it is risky but doable?
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[13:51] <edmoore> why would you even consider doing it that way?
[13:51] <edmoore> it's just asking for failure
[13:51] <edmoore> set it with the flight software on your microcontroller
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[13:51] Nick change: jan64_ -> jan64
[13:52] <samme> was trying to save memory space
[13:52] <edmoore> it's a few extra bytes
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[13:52] <samme> hahaha ya...just a thought
[13:52] <edmoore> robustness at the design stage will repay itself so many times in flight
[13:52] <samme> thnx :D
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[13:56] <Upu> mfa298: it just hit the post office today
[13:56] <Upu> err now
[13:56] <mfa298> Upu: cheers, I was assuming it would hit todays post from the earlier email :)
[13:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> jakeio, Is it yourself flying SKIPI2 tomorrow ?
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[14:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> But he hasn't specified all te parameters :-(
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[14:48] <jakeio> What's the typical idle current for the Pi camera?
[14:49] <SpeedEvil> From memory, it's generally dwarfed by the Pi
[14:49] <SpeedEvil> I vaguely remember a figure of 40mA extra when on
[14:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> jakeio, Are you flying SKIPI tomorrow ?
[14:50] <jakeio> Yup, and SKIPI2.
[14:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Do you have all the LoRa parametrs you midded out Spreadign factor and Explicit ?
[14:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> missed*
[14:51] <jakeio> It's on explicit mode, and let me check spreading factor.
[14:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> I assume your SSDV from it as you have the wide bandwidth, suprised you didnt use the standard mode=3 settings
[14:55] <jakeio> Erm, what are the standard mode=3 settings?
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[14:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> #3 = (normal for fast SSDV) Explicit mode, Error coding 4:6, Bandwidth 250kHz, SF7 LDRO off
[14:56] <jakeio> Is that one of the modes on the lora-gateway?
[14:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes from dave's sample file
[14:57] <jakeio> SF7.
[14:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> right OK just the different Error corection then
[14:58] <jakeio> I wrote my own LoRa software in Python, of course, dave's is absolutely 100% better.
[14:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh right, just assumed it was from PISKY so thought it odd
[14:59] <jakeio> May I ask what LDRO off means?
[14:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Low Date Rate Optimisation on/off
[15:00] <jakeio> Oh, OFF.
[15:00] <jakeio> Right, let me amend my post.
[15:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Explicit, 250k, SF7, EC4:5
[15:01] <jakeio> Yup.
[15:01] <jakeio> Sorry about that.
[15:02] <jakeio> And the frequency is 869.850MHz.
[15:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> nps just didn't want to be playing settings in the morning!
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[15:10] <jakeio> Geoff-G8DHE, I should mention, my code doesn't allow for the "please resend this packet" message, it never stops to just listen.
[15:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes I guessed that, it would no doubt be yourself that would contro that otherwise too many collisions!
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[15:12] <jakeio> May I ask roughly where you are based Geoff-G8DHE? Just wondering if the payload's going to fly near to you.
[15:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not that close I'm down in Worthing, Sussex on the Coast
[15:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> but I do use a 20 ele beam for 868MHz
[15:13] <jakeio> I've never flown a LoRa before, what sort of range should I expect with these settings?
[15:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> Well I would expect to get you as soon as you clear the South Downs for me that's about 6Kms roughly, but as your going NE might be nearer 7Kms as its heading away from me. Normally start copying well before 50baud rtty
[15:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thtas the balloon altitude by the way!
[15:17] <jakeio> Well, thank you in advance for helping out tomorrow, SKIPI 1 is running 75baud rtty if all else fails.
[15:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK well I'll be listening on all the channels
[15:18] <jakeio> I'm about to rig up a car with two homemade quarter wave antennas on the roof, should be interesting.
[15:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> Sounds good from a car
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[15:36] <Ian_> Historical note: Military teleprinter/rtty systems used an end of line function of \r\r\n to ensure that the platen or type basket, depending on model, reached the start of the line before commencing printing the next line of text.
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[15:38] <Ian_> I did a tour at a tape relay station and received exercise (fortunately) Flash traffic from a mobile message switching centre that had been recently given a software refit. It neatly deleted all the alignment functions . . . obviously tested prior to deployment . . .
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[16:13] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03OM3BC-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=OM3BC-11
[16:14] <mfa298> nothing like testing upgrades in the field. Best way to find the bugs
[16:18] <M0RJX> time to head home
[16:18] <M0RJX> see you all when I'm back in the uk
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[16:50] <Ian_> If there is a deputation at arrivals, then you will know there was an issue left hanging ;)
[16:50] <Ian_> Have a good flight. What no EasyJet sneak ssdv?
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[16:56] <jakeio> I think I may have short circuited a few of my batteries for about 30 seconds, will that have a significant affect on lifetime?
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[17:03] <edmoore> i probably wouldn;t fly them
[17:03] <edmoore> use them fore a wireless mouse or something
[17:03] <mfa298> I think the normal advice is use a new pack of batteries for the flight, that way you know they're good
[17:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC5SFU-5 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC5SFU-5
[17:04] <mfa298> you'de be disappointed if the batteries died mid flgiht as they'de previously been used for testing
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[17:10] <jakeio> Poo. I need more batteries fast!
[17:10] <jakeio> afk
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[17:14] <jakeio> Are they likely to be sold in a petrol station?
[17:15] <jakeio> I did only use them for a min to test current draw.
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[17:21] <mfa298> a good sized local supermarket will probably have them
[17:23] <mfa298> if they've only been used for a few mins and shorted for 30s you might be ok, question is how much you want to risk it.
[17:23] <mfa298> cost of batteries vs cost of lost payload and all that
[17:27] <jakeio> Just sent someone to local supermarket, no luck.
[17:27] <jakeio> All duracell alkalines.
[17:28] <daveake> mfa298: Have had a chat with jakeio
[17:28] <jakeio> I've been annoying daveake in PM :P
[17:29] <daveake> He has 6 in total for his payload - 2 sets of 3 in series
[17:29] <daveake> the 2 sets are parallelled
[17:29] <daveake> one set got shorted and those cells measure ~1.7V the others measure ~1.8V
[17:29] <jakeio> Right, I've just tested all 6 batteries that might have been shorted, and 3 of them got 1.8v ish and the other 3 got 1.7v ish, so the 1.7v ones are definitely the ones that shorted.
[17:30] <daveake> The safest thing is to use 3 fresh ones plus your 3 good ones
[17:30] <daveake> Donate the shorted ones to some unimportant task
[17:31] <jakeio> I'll find some menial task for them...
[17:32] <daveake> I've got loads, in a box labelled "New cells ONLY"
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[17:36] Nick change: pe2bz_ -> PE2BZ
[17:37] <PE2BZ> daveake I don´t want to upset anyone but it looks like SSDV packets from Rob ´s V 1.8 currently do not reach the ssdv.habhub.org ?
[17:38] <PE2BZ> My rx gateway at work has received 1 image every hour, of which none ended up on habhub, and now I am running the 1.7 standard and that one uploads.
[17:39] <daveake> Unlikely to upset anyone!
[17:40] <PE2BZ> ;-)
[17:40] <PE2BZ> in my text above 1.8 is 1.7 and 1.7 is 1.6 by the way
[17:40] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[17:40] <daveake> Probably worth replying to jakeio's message in the mailing list, to let people know to use <=1.7 rather than 1.8
[17:41] <daveake> Ah right
[17:41] <daveake> I thought maybe Rob had called his 1.8 now
[17:41] <PE2BZ> can someone confirm that rharrison/lora-gateway does not upload ssdv packages at the moment ?
[17:42] <PE2BZ> My messages on UKHAS have to be approved and most of the time take more than a day.
[17:42] <daveake> I've not tried it yet - I was waiting for Rob to finish, plus I've been busy with actual work all this week
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[17:43] <daveake> ok back later - need to go buy some food
[17:44] <PE2BZ> Enjoy dinner !
[17:54] <PE2BZ> does anyone have an email address for M0RJX ?
[17:55] <mfa298> PE2BZ: it sounds like it's afk for a bit, travelling back to the uk
[17:56] <Upu> he'll be back tommorrow evening PE2BZ
[17:56] <PE2BZ> mfa298 I did notice he was catching a plane. But the rharrison version of the gateway (the improved packet upload and curl update) does no longer upload SSDV packets to habhub on the 2 of my pi´s.
[17:58] <PE2BZ> So I would like to prevent jakeio´s flight from ending with small packet uploads from his lora tracker and find out if someone else can check if i am right. I have his version on 2 pi´s on 2 locations, both do not upload ssdv. If I start the 1.6 version on either one of them they upload inmediately
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[18:01] <PE2BZ> And if I post a message to the UKHAS group it always takes a day to be approved
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[18:02] <mfa298> as daveake said, posting is probably the best option.
[18:02] <mfa298> I'm sure you can persaude someone to approve it faster
[18:05] <Ian_> ping jakeio
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[18:07] <PE2BZ> mfa298 message posted. Would you know who / where to persuade someone ?
[18:09] <mfa298> probably a similar list to thsoe that can approve flight docs
[18:10] <jakeio> Ian_, pong!
[18:10] <Ian_> Are you reading the mail here from PE2BZ Ben?
[18:11] <jakeio> PE2BZ, yes, I'm unsure what you mean?
[18:11] <Ian_> I believe that he has concerns that he might wish you to be aware of.
[18:11] <jakeio> No message on google groups?
[18:11] <jakeio> OK.
[18:12] <jakeio> PE2BZ, I'm all ears!
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[18:12] <Ian_> No, by mail, I mean have you been reading here since about 1840? And noted what Ben has said?
[18:12] <PE2BZ> jakeio I noticed on 2 of my PI´s that the improved lora-gateway software no longer uploads ssdv packets to ssdv.habhub.org
[18:13] <jakeio> PE2BZ, I'm not running the lora-gateway!
[18:13] <PE2BZ> No, but I expect that your receiver stations do ?
[18:13] <jakeio> No, they don't, I've written software in Python for both Rx and Tx.
[18:14] <PE2BZ> And that software uploads ssdv to habhub >
[18:14] <PE2BZ> > = ?
[18:14] <jakeio> I did a final test earlier today and it was working fine.
[18:15] <Ian_> Do you anticipate that other stations will be needed to receive your LoRa signals for relay to habhub?
[18:15] <PE2BZ> But your software is not intended to be received by others with the LoRa gateway software ?
[18:16] <jakeio> It should work with the lora-gateway as intended, it even does daveake's trick of missing the first byte of image packets!
[18:17] <Ian_> In short jakeio, the distributed LoRa receiver network may be polluted and dependence upon it in the short term may put your flight data downloads at risk
[18:17] <jakeio> I do have an RTTY payload setup as a backup.
[18:18] <Ian_> If you are happy with that, but you are aware that there is a possible LoRa issue.
[18:19] <jakeio> I'm confident that I'll get the payload and hence images back as the RTTY payload has been tested before.
[18:19] <jakeio> Thank you all for pointing this out though! Shall I add a note to my google groups post?
[18:20] <PE2BZ> I did allready, but usually my post get approved 24 hours later.
[18:21] <Ian_> I'm not sure who the admis are that can approve posts, upu, adamgrieg, Darkside among others
[18:22] <jakeio> The pull request hasn't yet been accepted into the main branch? So hopefully not many people have upgraded to it.
[18:22] <PE2BZ> It´s approved after a message on habhub :-)
[18:24] <jakeio> Thank you PE2BZ, I'll be on IRC during the flight tomorrow so hopefully I'll be able to tell anyone who says they're helping to use the v1.6.
[18:26] <PE2BZ> jakeio that´s a good idea! I am 230 km away from my RX station this weekend so I can´t follow your flight. I wish you very good luck with the flight and the chase of your payload !
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[18:39] <jakeio> Donated my 3 shorted AAs to my brother.
[18:45] <Upu> evening
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[18:45] <Upu> I can approve
[18:46] <M0RJX> About to board :-) been hacking V1.8
[18:46] <Upu> on holiday yeah ? :)
[18:46] <M0RJX> Just finished downloading the ncurses how too offline
[18:47] <M0RJX> Upu expect my call tomorrow might have a play if you're up for it.
[18:48] <M0RJX> We can rx and tx some test data and images.
[18:50] <M0RJX> Be good to test some sms uplinks with version 1.7 but I guess I can do that on my own now :-)
[18:51] <M0RJX> Do you think the pilot will mind if I fire my tracker :-)
[18:52] <Upu> do it I'll track you on the wya in
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[19:17] <M0RJX> 20:17 M0RJX 3:55 and back in blyty currently at 2500 meters so probably time to sign off
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[19:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UBSEDS19 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS19
[19:36] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03JMHS after 037 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=JMHS
[19:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UBSEDS20 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS20
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[20:42] <DL7AD> good evening
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[20:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PS-60 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-60
[20:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK3YT-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK3YT-11
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[21:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PS-68 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-68
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[21:36] <jakeio> I'm having an issue with my LoRa module, the output power seems to have suddenly decreased to the point where it's barely noticeable on GQRX.
[21:37] <jakeio> I had the whole setup running for 12 hours a few days ago.
[21:37] <jakeio> So this is thrustrating.
[21:37] <mfa298> if this the difference before and after changing the power level earlier
[21:37] <jakeio> Nope.
[21:38] <jakeio> I had it working and then half way through it just stopped being audible on Gqrx.
[21:38] <mfa298> dodgy connection on the antenna then maybe ?
[21:38] <jakeio> Well, I've checked and all connections appear to be fine.
[21:39] <jakeio> I used the continuity checker on my DMM.
[21:40] <jakeio> Plugging an antenna into my funcube does help.
[21:40] <jakeio> But it's only 5m away.
[21:40] <jakeio> Should not be this weak!
[21:42] <mfa298> 5mW on 868 will be weaker than your 434MHz rtty, but probably not that weak.
[21:42] <mfa298> should only be about 3dB down (the freespace loss is also higher, but wont have any noticable impact over 5m)
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[21:59] <jakeio> Seems to be just fine now...
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[23:14] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[23:28] <M0RJX> Landed
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[00:00] --- Sat Aug 27 2016