highaltitude.log.20160808

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[01:52] <spaceBalloon2016> hello
[01:53] <spaceBalloon2016> has anyone ever used a mix of HE + H
[01:54] <spaceBalloon2016> im thinking like 8% Hydrogen
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[02:00] <SpeedEvil> No particular reason it'd be bad
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[02:00] <SpeedEvil> I assume it's not flammable at 8%
[02:00] <SpeedEvil> hydrogen flammability is very questionable
[02:01] <SpeedEvil> that is - as a real risk
[02:01] <SpeedEvil> With appropriate precautions
[02:08] <spaceBalloon2016> ya, Im thinking 8% because thats the max shipping limit befor it is "flamable", but I am questining if it is even worth it, I feel like it would give me more than an 8% lift boost, but I dont know the math to back up that assumtion
[02:09] <SpeedEvil> If you do not have to get insurance, then launching with hydrogen can be worth it
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[02:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-12 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-12
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[03:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03(214)723-9758_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=(214)723-9758_chase
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[03:32] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB-10 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB-10
[04:08] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB
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[04:24] <Maxell> "$$CHEAPO,1213,200002,51.415680,01.339360,13644,0,11,0.98,-39*85AB","PE1ANS,PA0RPA,PB0AHX,G8KNN",20:00:02
[04:24] <Maxell> "$$CHEAPO,0,000000,0,0,0,0,00,0.56,-33*6077",PB0AHX,00:00:00
[04:24] <Maxell> "$$CHEAPO,55,000000,0,0,0,0,00,1.26,4*CBB1",PE1ANS,00:00:00
[04:27] <Maxell> Nice work guys :)
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[08:03] <PE2BZ> !flights
[08:03] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03PICO-27 144.251 MHz CTSTIA32/1000 10(11ba)
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[08:53] <pb0ahx> !flights
[08:53] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03PICO-27 144.251 MHz CTSTIA32/1000 10(11ba)
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[10:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03OM3BC-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=OM3BC-11
[10:31] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03JMHS after 035 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=JMHS
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[11:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[11:23] <ryan_in> Is it best to tune a mag mount whip antenna to a 1/4 wave or 1/2 wave?
[11:24] <gonzo_> if it is a simple whip (with no extra matching couls/circuits) then cut to 1/4 wave
[11:25] <ryan_in> okay thank you
[11:25] <gonzo_> the impeadence of a 1/2 wave element will be something like 2000R, which won't natch to your 50R coax and TX
[11:25] <gonzo_> match
[11:26] <gonzo_> if you want to be extra picky, then cut it to about 95% of the free space wavemength, as RF travels a little faster in metal
[11:26] <gonzo_> but it's usually not critical tbh
[11:29] <ryan_in> Good to know!
[11:29] <fsphil> travel slower*
[11:29] <fsphil> or the physics world would like a word with you
[11:30] <ryan_in> I do A level physics. All this radio stuff is beyond me
[11:30] <gonzo_> well corrected
[11:31] Action: gonzo_ hangs head in shame
[11:31] <fsphil> well you might just have invented warp drive
[11:31] <gonzo_> feel that way sometimes
[11:32] <gonzo_> very warped at least
[11:32] <fsphil> hah
[11:32] <gonzo_> many hab people stayiong onsite today?
[11:33] <fsphil> ah you're still there?
[11:34] <fsphil> must be a good bit quieter now
[11:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03M10RS-11 after 0310 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M10RS-11
[11:53] <mfa298> ryan_in: if you've done stuff about light and electromagnetic waves in your A levels it's all the same stuff.
[12:00] <ryan_in> mfa298: I get the basics, its just the radio equipment, cables and electronics Im not used to
[12:06] <Vaizki> are you sure your mag whip doesn't have an inductor in it?
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[13:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Yellobric_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Yellobric_chase
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[13:21] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RPF-C2 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-C2
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[13:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-S2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-S2
[13:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-S1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-S1
[13:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RPF-A2 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-A2
[13:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-U2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-U2
[13:43] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RPF-U1 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-U1
[13:43] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-N2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-N2
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[13:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Stevie_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Stevie_chase
[13:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-N1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-N1
[13:46] <david65434> Hi guys!
[13:46] <david65434> Need some help with setting up dl-fldigi on Ubuntu, anyone with experience here?
[13:48] <PE2BZ> 16.04 seems to be a crime when trying to build. Which Ubuntu version ?
[13:49] <david65434> I have set up an rtl-sdr dongle with GQRX, piped into fldigi through Portaudio. Fldigi works fine (I see the spectrum moving by in the waterfall display).
[13:50] <PE2BZ> That´s a great start :-)
[13:51] <david65434> I've compiled Fldigi 3.23.12 (yesterday's latest release on gitgub) but can't get it to work. In the Configure - Sound Card menu I can't select Portaudio, all options but "File I/O only" are greyed out...
[13:52] <david65434> I mean that's the case with dl-fldigi 3.23.12. Which is strange because the regular fldigi works fine...
[13:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Yellobric1_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Yellobric1_chase
[13:55] <PE2BZ> Did you try to start dl-fldigi as root, to see if it´s a rights issue ?
[13:56] <mfa298> david65434: that probably means you didn't have the relevant dev packages installed when you did the ./configure
[13:57] <mfa298> it'll only enable things at build time that it has the relevant -dev packages for (there's a summary printed of what's enabled when ./configure finishes)
[13:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03TonyTeamNimbus_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TonyTeamNimbus_chase
[13:58] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RPF-A1 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-A1
[13:58] <david65434> Yes I did run as sudo, same thing.
[14:00] <david65434> Perhaps it's missing a portaudio package, but how does the vanilla fldigi manage to use it then?
[14:00] <PE2BZ> And to take mfa298 ´s point: after running ./configure, what (if any) where the error messages ?
[14:00] <david65434> No error messages, but it does list
[14:00] <david65434> portaudio ................... no
[14:00] <PE2BZ> when building from source you have to have dev packages installed.
[14:00] <david65434> portaudio ................... no
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[14:01] <PE2BZ> and sudo apt-get install libportaudio-dev tells you ?
[14:02] <david65434> Package libportaudio-dev is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[14:02] <david65434> E: Package 'libportaudio-dev' has no installation candidate
[14:04] <PE2BZ> and 16.04 ?
[14:04] <PE2BZ> ( ubuntu version )
[14:04] <mfa298> david65434: most libraries are split into two parts the main library (required to run the application) and a -dev package which is only required when compiling things. By default only the main libraries get installed
[14:04] <david65434> Apparently the correct package name is portaudio19-dev
[14:04] <mfa298> !wiki build_ubuntu
[14:05] <SpacenearUS> 03mfa298: No results for your query
[14:05] <david65434> ./configure now says portaudio...yes
[14:05] <mfa298> !wiki build-ubuntu
[14:05] <SpacenearUS> 03mfa298: Wiki page 03build-ubuntu (projec&l-fldigi) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi:build-ubuntu
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[14:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03jay_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=jay_chase
[14:05] <mfa298> there should be some bits on that link for getting the required dev packages
[14:05] <david65434> Yes, followed that tutorial, thanks :-)
[14:05] <david65434> Running make again, we'll see
[14:06] <mfa298> did you do the apt-get build-dep line
[14:06] <PE2BZ> portaudio = portaudio + 1 if portaudio <> yes then retry ....
[14:06] <mfa298> until configure shows "portaudio ... yes" you wont get port audio in the build binary
[14:11] <david65434> Ok, re-complied and it now works :-) Cause was missing package portaudio19-dev
[14:11] <david65434> Thanks for the help!
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[14:12] <PE2BZ> You´re welcome.
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[14:21] <BubUK> Greetings all
[14:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
[14:25] <BubUK> Would anyone know why the pits lora tracker link doesn't work please? i.e. git clone -b LoRa https://github.com/PiInTheSky/pits.git
[14:25] <PE2BZ> Hi.
[14:25] <PE2BZ> the url is ok. What´s the error ?
[14:26] <BubUK> Not available. I see why git won't work just wondered how I get the tracker working : http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/index.php?id=making-a-lora-tracker
[14:27] <PE2BZ> pe2bz@pogoplug:~$ git clone -b LoRa https://github.com/PiInTheSky/pits.git
[14:27] <PE2BZ> Cloning into pits...
[14:27] <PE2BZ> remote: Counting objects: 688, done.
[14:27] <PE2BZ> remote: Total 688 (delta 0), reused 0 (delta 0), pack-reused 688
[14:27] <PE2BZ> Receiving objects: 100% (688/688), 5.47 MiB | 234 KiB/s, done.
[14:27] <PE2BZ> Resolving deltas: 100% (403/403), done.
[14:27] <PE2BZ> warning: Remote branch LoRa not found in upstream origin, using HEAD instead
[14:28] <BubUK> That's odd. It was a few hours ago. Perhaps it's ok now...
[14:28] <PE2BZ> It´s not the highest speed, but over here it works.
[14:28] <BubUK> Cool. Thank you. I'll try it again.
[14:29] <PE2BZ> Ok !
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[15:13] <BubUK> I'm getting : fatal: Remote branch LoRa not found in upstream origin
[15:18] <miek> BubUK: looks like those instructions are out of date. the LoRa branch was merged into master in august last year, so you should be fine just omitting '-b LoRa ' from the command
[15:19] <BubUK> Ah. Thought that must be the case. I'll just grab the pits.git then. Thank you miek
[15:34] <BubUK> There is a clone of lora-gateway.git in the pits manual. Is there an equivalent step for the lora- tracker ?
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[16:08] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03S-16 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-16
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[16:55] <PE2BZ> BubUK do you mean this ? https://github.com/PiInTheSky/pits
[16:57] <BubUK> Yeah. I'm assuming that the gateway needs the pits software plus lora gateway and tracker itself (on balloon) only needs pits which sends from both pits radio AND attached lora board?
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[17:03] <PE2BZ> Now that´s a difficult oneliner to answer....
[17:03] <BubUK> :-) yes
[17:04] <PE2BZ> For receiving I use the LoRa-Gateway only, on a Raspberry Pi. For transmitting I use the same hardware and run the tracker software, depending it´s settings in the /boot/pisky.txt it will transmit either RTTY with a NTX or something like that or LoRa telemetry and / or SSDV
[17:05] <BubUK> The online guides are either outdated or unclear. Plus, they assume some knowledge which I don't have.
[17:05] <PE2BZ> All people over here can help. If the question is clear the answer would not take that much time to appear ;-)
[17:06] <PE2BZ> And if all is clear for you, write a new guideline :-)
[17:07] <mfa298> BubUK: I think the lora gateway is the part you and many others run on the ground (pi + lora board) to receive the lora transmition from the balloon.
[17:07] <mfa298> the pits part is what you run on a balloon
[17:07] <BubUK> Agreed. A clear question would help! I think I have it setup as per your message. By tracker software I assume you mean the pits tracker. I completed the lora section of pisky.txt so should work
[17:09] <PE2BZ> the pits tracker hardware with the MTX2 hardware transmits RTTY, the LoRa board (with either one or two LoRa modules) can both transmit and receive LoRa packets
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[17:23] <BubUK> Yes, I just wondered if any specific extra software was required in order to make lora transmit/receive or whether this was all done by the pits software
[17:24] <PE2BZ> If you have the PITS software installed and a PITS or LoRa board is attached the tx will start after a reboot.
[17:27] <daveake> Why are you doing -b lora ????
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[17:53] <Laurenceb> whats the best way to use an airspy from command line under linux?
[17:54] <prog> airspy_rx ?
[17:55] <Laurenceb> ok I'll try
[17:56] <Rharrison_> Laurenceb, I've got an airspy coming tomorrow :-)
[17:59] <michal_f> Laurenceb: you might wan't take a peek at https://github.com/simonyiszk/csdr
[17:59] <michal_f> want^
[17:59] <Laurenceb> basically I was raw data so I can import into matlab and use it
[18:00] <Laurenceb> ideally wav
[18:00] <michal_f> ah ok, I just joined in
[18:00] <prog> James or skycademy uses airspy_rx with csdr on a rpi
[18:00] <prog> rpi3
[18:01] <Laurenceb> I've done this before but can't remeber how lol
[18:02] <michal_f> prog, does he decode rtty on rPI ?
[18:02] <prog> yes
[18:02] <michal_f> does he show up here? I'd love to ask him about it
[18:03] <prog> https://twitter.com/IseultMangan/status/762609647245205505
[18:03] <prog> I don't think so
[18:03] <michal_f> thanks !
[18:03] <prog> that suitecase is the actual tracker
[18:04] <prog> rpi + airspy + some other stuff
[18:04] <michal_f> that's what I'd like to do with my xu4
[18:04] <Laurenceb> I felt sure there was a way to do this with gqrx
[18:04] <michal_f> (or rPI, whatever)
[18:04] <Laurenceb> just command line dump to wav
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[18:05] <daveake> Yeah the Pi 3 / airspy / dl-fldigi isn't quite working
[18:05] <michal_f> so what is used for decoding ?
[18:05] <daveake> I've seen it decode some sentences but it fails a lot. The audio had a lot of clicking.
[18:06] <daveake> It's close though
[18:06] <prog> daveake: still hogging?
[18:06] <daveake> Strange as without dl-fldigi in the sequence the audio sounds fine
[18:07] <daveake> Dunno prog I've not been involved
[18:07] <prog> they probably need some help from the expert
[18:07] <Laurenceb> so, is anyone able to answer my question?
[18:08] <Laurenceb> is there a command line program to get my raw IQ data from an airspy?
[18:09] <prog> airspy_rx -r iqfile.c -f 433.XXX -t 2
[18:09] <prog> cfile is gnuradio format
[18:09] <PE2BZ> Could this be useful ? http://www.rtl-sdr.com/sdrrecorder-a-linux-script-for-recording-an-iq-stream-at-a-given-date-and-time/
[18:09] <prog> if you want wave use -w
[18:09] <Laurenceb> thanks
[18:10] <michal_f> I need a wiki subpage for prog's little tricks...
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[18:16] <DL7AD> hi :)
[18:17] <michal_f> hi
[18:17] <prog> probably something like this can work in the Pi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwuyMJfyNmY
[18:17] <DL7AD> i've just booked my flight for the conference
[18:17] <Rharrison_> ping Upu
[18:18] <DL7AD> what about overnight accommodation? is the college recomendable?
[18:19] <michal_f> thx prog this looks promising
[18:28] <tweetBot> @daveake: Raspberry Pi blog post about this year's Skycademy course and the infamous test flight https://t.co/XamzuXd1XE #RaspberryPi #ukhas
[18:30] <BubUK> Daveake: because that's what the guide online says I should be doing
[18:31] <BubUK> http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/index.php?id=making-a-lora-tracker
[18:31] <daveake> Ok that needs removing
[18:32] <daveake> The normal pits installation does it all
[18:32] <BubUK> Yeah. I was mightily confused :-)
[18:32] <daveake> Didn't know that was still up
[18:33] <daveake> I suggest you download the manual and follow that
[18:33] <BubUK> Ah. It is. Confusing if you're a newbie probably OK if not
[18:33] <BubUK> I did that. Then got stuck anyway.
[18:33] <arjunnaha> Has anyone had any success with getting an Airspy to work with gqrx on a Mac?
[18:36] <daveake> Afaik you're the first to even find that page since the code was all merged over a year ago
[18:37] <daveake> I'm on a phone now but I'll get the page removed when I get a chance
[18:37] <daveake> It's linked from the main page?
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[18:38] <BubUK> I was given the link on here 16:58 yesterday
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[18:39] <BubUK> I was confused as I'd bought a pi and pits plus lora and was trying to sort out initial setup.
[18:41] <daveake> Ok that explains it. It's not linked to buy the page exists.
[18:41] <daveake> By
[18:41] <daveake> But
[18:41] <daveake> Grrrr
[18:42] <BubUK> Hopefully I've sorted it now. Steep learning curve, but that's ok, no gain without pain etc :-)
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[18:42] <david5444> Hi all
[18:43] <daveake> Well ask this stuff is quite well documented but you send to have found a novel route to it
[18:43] <daveake> Seem
[18:43] <daveake> Sorry autowrong is winning here
[18:43] <BubUK> Yes. I do. Let's hope it all works once it's assembled :-))
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[18:52] <swaledale_steve> Greetings from Skycademy
[18:56] <BubUK> Hi swaledale-Steve. Judging by the conversation I've been having today it's a Shane
[18:57] <BubUK> It's a shame I can't join you at skycademy :-)
[18:57] <swaledale_steve> Shane? Warne or Ritchie
[18:57] <swaledale_steve> ;)
[18:57] <swaledale_steve> It's cool
[18:57] <BubUK> Haha. Stupid auto-bodger
[18:57] <swaledale_steve> Lol
[18:58] <swaledale_steve> daveake is doing well. It had to correct many people on the use of (near)space
[18:58] <swaledale_steve> Not had*
[18:59] <BubUK> Trying to work out how to put balloon up so that local school can do a bit of a project on it (my 2 go there so I have a vested interest)
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[19:02] <Upu> hey Rharrison_ here now
[19:03] <Rharrison_> cool Are you going to the HAB conf?
[19:03] <Rharrison_> Well are you driving ?
[19:03] <Upu> yes x 2
[19:04] <Upu> back in a bit sorry
[19:04] <david5444> Quick question: how do I show the flights list in dl-fldigi?
[19:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03MIKEL-4 after 0315 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MIKEL-4
[19:05] <BubUK> Swaledale. Good to see someone from the right end of the country in here. Despite if being on the work
[19:05] <BubUK> Being on the wrong side. Stupid correction.
[19:06] <swaledale_steve> Haha
[19:06] <swaledale_steve> There's someone from Beverley here
[19:06] <BubUK> Even better.
[19:06] <BubUK> Just down the road.
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[19:08] Nick change: Tygrys^ -> Tiger^
[19:08] <swaledale_steve> Do u know them
[19:10] <BubUK> Nope. Only 30 miles away though.
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[19:22] <Upu> probably going down Friday Rharrison_ want to tag along ?
[19:23] <fsphil> everyone staying at the b+b?
[19:23] <Rharrison_> Upu, that would be great :-) I'll cover the fuel
[19:24] <Upu> sure about that ? :)
[19:24] <Rharrison_> Yep npo probs
[19:24] <Upu> My car isn't that bad :)
[19:24] <Upu> I'll get the hotel details in a bit
[19:24] <Rharrison_> It's better than my hab mobile
[19:25] <Rharrison_> VWT4
[19:25] <Upu> thats probably better on fuel :)
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[19:32] <Upu> Evening James ready for tommorrow ?
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[19:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Anybody else staying at the Arundel House Hotel ? provided Southern have sorted out the striking by then!
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[19:45] <samme> Hi. How can I determine the gain of my payload antenna?
[19:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Depends what your building is it the standard 1/4 wave against a ground plane of 4 radials ?
[19:47] <samme> yes quarter wave
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[19:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> See under Radiation pattern about 5 dBi or 3dBd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopole_antenna
[19:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> it "looks" like a dipole, but is radiating in only half the volume hence 3dB gain over a real dipole
[19:52] <samme> so 5.19dBi gain for 1/4 wave?
[19:53] <samme> according to the article
[19:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> yes 2.19dBi for a dipole against Isotropic aerial then +3db for power in only half the volume.
[19:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its about the best aerial for a Balloon as we only want to radiate downwards, very light weight, and non-directional in the Azimuth best to keep the radials evenly spread as well
[19:56] Nick change: PD3T_ -> PD3T
[19:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> otherwise you get more flutter in strength as it spins
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[19:58] <samme> got it ! thanks. I also wanted to determine the ERP (effective radio power) and was confused with the .19 dBi conversion....(like 3dB gain is twice)
[19:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes well the Isotropic is only the "ideal" aerial never something you can actually create in reality!
[19:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> But it forms a nice simple standard, and MArketing people like it as it makes the gain greater ;-)
[20:00] <samme> so if I wanted to compute the ERP of 1/4 wave, I would have to assume.....?
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[20:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not quite sure what you mean ? A dipole has 2.19dB gain over Isotropic the 2.19dBi
[20:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> becuase a dipole only radiates in the form of a donut, rather than a sphere, you have to calculate that yourself.
[20:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> then the 1/4wave monopole doubles the gain because its only half the donut.
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[20:06] <samme> Geoff-G8DHE : can gain or loss be known using SDR# by checking dB with and without antenna?
[20:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> In theory yes, but in practice its quite difficult to get anything accurate, as reflections and other effects bugger it all up!
[20:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> If you ever seen a genuine aerial test range or the work that goes on in echo free chambers (cant spell anechoic chamber)
[20:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> then you will understand the problem!
[20:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Radio-frequency-anechoic-chamber-HDR-0a.jpg&imgrefurl=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anechoic_chamber&h=2112&w=2816&tbnid=FmtMnysDwRax4M:&tbnh=160&tbnw=213&docid=IXQm5CN0QAFl5M&client=firefox-b&usg=__fr6eocctqOrWKEF7ubpXbUF3uV4=&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiy6Z3Pz7LOAhXjBsAKHXGXB8kQ9QEIIjAA
[20:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> Argh hate those links
[20:10] <michal_f> looks like torture equipment
[20:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> It generaly is!
[20:10] <samme> WOW ! O_O hahahaha, as a beginner I shall consider ideal condition >_< xD
[20:12] <samme> Correct me if I am wrong, with antenna I am getting 6dBFS and without -30dBFS. my gain is 36 using the 10 log (power ratio) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel)
[20:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> What is dB"FS" not seen that
[20:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh right full scale
[20:15] <samme> decibels relative to full scale as displayd on SDR#
[20:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> not a generaly used one!
[20:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> You never actually talk about gain other than in dB, about the only place you might see it in electronics is say a gian of an Op-Amp maybe
[20:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> gtain*
[20:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> gain*
[20:18] <samme> yea I read that in many articles but on SDR# the peak is shown using dBFS :/
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[20:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> Max reading is generally shown as 0db and everything is less than that with the noise floor being the -ve limit
[20:21] <samme> so meaning I have to convert dBFS to dB to calculate the gain?
[20:23] <mfa298> just doing what you did above won't necessarily give you a useful gain figure for your antenna
[20:23] <mfa298> antenna gain is generally quoted in reference to some known thing generally an isotropic antenna or dipole antenna
[20:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> No dBFS means nothing as you don't know what FS is, you can compare two aerials and then the difference is the gain between them.
[20:24] <Upu> Geoff-G8DHE: that hotel yes I am
[20:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> so Compare a Dipole against a Monopole and you should see 3dB improvment
[20:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> I think dave is there as well Upu.
[20:25] <Upu> oh damn the riff raff is there
[20:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> :)
[20:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> Shan't insult anyone, might be looking for a lift to the meeting point ;-)
[20:25] <samme> perfect logic! thanks :D
[20:26] <Upu> sure we can assist there
[20:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> :)
[20:34] <SA6BSS-Mike> samme: in real life the dipole vs the 1/4 wave have about the same gain 0dbd, so if you feed 10mW into the antenna it is goinf to radiate 10mW, you going to have some losses so for the sake feed 12mW and u probably have 10mw radiated power
[20:44] <michal_f> does anybody have .wav with some RTTY hab sentences ?
[20:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide?s[]=icarus&s[]=wav
[20:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> or http://tenbus.co.uk/icaruscapture_30secs.wav
[20:46] <michal_f> thanks! I just found it too
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[20:48] <samme> SA6BSS-Mike: a youtube video demonstrated that there is a 3dB loss in the coax cable meaning the power become half and depending on the antenna gain, the effective radiated power was known
[20:55] <daveake> Geoff-G8DHE: Yeah I'm at the Arundel
[20:55] <daveake> (right now in fact)
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[20:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah yes of course!
[20:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Do we have freq's for the other flights tomorrow other thanyours I've seen ?
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[21:18] <amell> daveake: any 434 lora tomorrow?
[21:18] <daveake> er yes, all the 5 teams
[21:18] <daveake> not me though
[21:18] <daveake> not enough space on my payload box for yet another aerial
[21:19] <amell> did you post the 434 lora freqs? I cant seem to find it.
[21:20] <amell> i did have a moment of accidental email deletion though
[21:20] <daveake> The flight docs are all done
[21:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup just seen them all programmed in!
[21:21] <amell> Ah. I'll go look there
[21:21] <daveake> I can get them from the table that was filled in for the course
[21:22] <amell> Am i missing something? i cant seem to find the lora freqs in the flight doc, unless they are the same as rtty?
[21:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> No he's getting them
[21:23] <amell> cool. sorry, been a hectic day
[21:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> also fast SSDV or standard I wonder ?
[21:25] <daveake> posted on the group now
[21:25] <amell> you might have to contend with combine harvesters. when i went past elsworth earlier today, they were getting ready to start.
[21:25] <daveake> yeah
[21:25] <daveake> Had to race one once
[21:25] <daveake> Well, thought I did ... was in the next field
[21:26] <amell> ha. now wouldnt it be nice if one lora receiver could listen to all the flights
[21:26] <swaledale_steve> I think RTTY is 434.100 to .200 in 25khz increments and LoRa is 434.250 to .450 in 50khz increments
[21:26] <daveake> We've been cleared by the farmer for Elsworth, but we don't know about the fields they're landing in of course
[21:26] <swaledale_steve> Ah the doc is uploaded now too so all frequencies are on there
[21:27] <daveake> That can be done amell, but these are all Txing 100% for throughput (they're all doing SSDV)
[21:27] <amell> quandary.. which one to listen to. it will be unattended again.
[21:27] <daveake> I've done a flight with 3 balloons all on the same frequency, and yes it does simplify receiving somewhat
[21:28] <Upu> reconfigure them all to time share :)
[21:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Make it plenty of ISH if possible ;-)
[21:28] <daveake> Yeah did consider it :)
[21:28] <amell> if the aerial on the payload is good you should get it picked up by me as soon as you take it out the car boot.
[21:28] <amell> now to get my microscope out and work out which socket is 434/868.
[21:28] <swaledale_steve> amell: how high is your rig?
[21:29] <daveake> I'm chasing mine with swaledale_steve, and we'll try and track the team flights too - we'll pick whichever is closest to landing
[21:29] <amell> swaledale_steve: about 6m, but i am like 800m from the launch site.
[21:29] <daveake> yeah you really ought to have them as soon as they're on
[21:29] <swaledale_steve> Yeah, well that's a good help for the teams I think, the
[21:29] <swaledale_steve> The more that are local the better
[21:29] <amell> i just need to get it on the right port lol
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[21:30] <swaledale_steve> amell: you could always leave it set to receive 868 and pick up daveake payload
[21:31] <daveake> well if it's a 434 lora and 434 aerial that won't work too well!
[21:31] <amell> i dont have a 868 aerial. well, only a rhcp handheld thing.
[21:31] <daveake> (esp latter)
[21:31] <swaledale_steve> Oh sorry thought you had 868 my bad
[21:32] <amell> i have a lora board with 868 and 434 chips on it. the trouble is i keep forgettign which port is which
[21:32] <amell> just typical cambridgeshire village idiot stuff. dont worry about it.
[21:33] <swaledale_steve> Geoff-G8DHE: you've got an 868 setup haven't you?
[21:35] <amell> what is mode 1 bandwidth?
[21:38] <swaledale_steve> 20.8khz
[21:41] <daveake> if you're using my gateway s/w then you only need to set mode and frequency - leave the bandwidth/coding/spreading/implicit/explicit commmented out
[21:42] <amell> right, microscoping done. ce1 is rf98, ce0 is rf96
[21:44] <amell> so that explains why i didnt receive anything last time.
[21:47] <amell> upu: why did uputronics switch from RFM96 to RFM95?
[21:48] <Rharrison_> Yeah Upu on version x+1 of the lora gw board can we put frequency on the CE0 and CE1 :-)
[21:50] <amell> Im really confused now. which frequency is which? the datasheet conflicts.
[21:50] <daveake> 98 is 434
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[21:51] <daveake> 95/96 is 868
[21:51] <daveake> The frequency is labelled on the back of the rfm module, which admittedly is not ideal :)
[21:52] <amell> yes its soldered in. ffs.
[21:52] <daveake> doesn't matter - the 95/6 or 98 designation tells you the frequency
[21:52] <daveake> Can't put permanent frequency labels on the lora pi board as people might populate with whatever they like
[21:53] <daveake> I put sticky labels on mine
[21:53] <Rharrison_> Ok white space to write it on
[21:53] <Rharrison_> ::-)
[21:53] <daveake> yup agreed
[21:53] <Rharrison_> do we have lora up in the air tomorrow?
[21:53] <daveake> muchly
[21:53] <daveake> 5 on 434.x
[21:53] <daveake> 1 on 869.850
[21:54] <daveake> (mine, doing fast ssdv)
[21:54] <swaledale_steve> There's a lorra LoRa tomorrow (uses best Scouse cilla accent)
[21:54] <Rharrison_> Perfect bugger the 869 MHz
[21:54] <Rharrison_> I'll grab my yagi and see what I can do from leeds
[21:54] <daveake> oh, and watch the ssdv feed on that one once it hits 20km :)
[21:54] <fsphil> goodness, there are a lot of images on the live page
[21:55] <daveake> yeah, they've been ... what's it called .... testing :)
[21:55] <swaledale_steve> SSDV is pretty full. Spot the tinkerer :)
[21:55] <fsphil> what is this testing you speak off
[21:55] <swaledale_steve> It's just a myth. That's what they've all been taught. Rest easy fsphil
[21:56] Action: Rharrison_ groans
[21:57] <Rharrison_> where is the sstv stuff?
[21:57] <fsphil> https://ssdv.habhub.org/
[21:58] <Rharrison_> cool
[21:58] Action: Rharrison_ thinks it needs flushing
[21:58] <amell> labelling completed. I feel happy
[21:59] <fsphil> yeah I don't think anyone would mind if I cleared them all
[21:59] <amell> has an embarassing picture ever been uploaded to ssdv?
[21:59] <fsphil> not to my knowledge
[21:59] <amell> only a matter of time
[22:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Sry away putting an SMA plugs on a cable! Yes I'll be listening 869.850 tomorrow
[22:01] <amell> the most recent pics on ssdv looks like someones bedroom
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[22:01] <swaledale_steve> Cool Geoff-G8DHE. Be sure to watch out the ssdv at 20km :)
[22:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> I'll be doing 6xRTTY, 3x434 LoRa and 1x868 LoRa
[22:02] <swaledale_steve> amell: that's one of the delegates 'testing' in his hotel
[22:02] <fsphil> hotel room I think
[22:02] <amell> curtains indicate it is a cheap hotel.
[22:02] <amell> and pine furniture...
[22:03] <fsphil> 321 images deleted
[22:03] <swaledale_steve> Pine. Hmm. Not like this quality solid Travelodge stuff here.
[22:04] <swaledale_steve> I love the fact that Geoff has pretty much the whole array of payloads covered single handedly!
[22:04] <amell> I'm wondering how
[22:04] <swaledale_steve> Kudos Geoff
[22:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah but I don't hear anything till there above 5-6Kms to get over the Downs :-(
[22:05] <swaledale_steve> Even so, I'm pretty sure it'll be appreciated tomorrow
[22:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its a nice challenge in its own right!
[22:06] <amell> setting up my port forwarding so i can ssh into my lora-gateway
[22:08] <amell> I guess i should probably change the root password...
[22:08] <Rharrison_> how can i tell if my rf cable is 50 ohms
[22:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> It will have a cable number RG?? most likely
[22:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> then look it up RG58 is 50Ohm RG59 s 75Ohm
[22:11] <fsphil> can the ohms of a cable be measured?
[22:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes with suitable test gear not a multi-meter
[22:11] <Rharrison_> rg174/u
[22:11] <Rharrison_> Humm might be a gps cable :-)
[22:12] <fsphil> that's usually 50ohm so you might be fine
[22:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> https://www.pasternack.com/images/ProductPDF/RG174A-U.pdf
[22:12] <fsphil> the only 75ohm stuff I've seen is for TV and satellite
[22:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> TV as in Video as well
[22:13] <fsphil> the composite cables?
[22:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nope RG59 I have a reel here for Video CCTV type stuff
[22:13] <Rharrison_> hey Geoff-G8DHE looks good to me cheers
[22:13] <Rharrison_> 50 ohm any way
[22:14] <Rharrison_> will see if that works with the lora from the top of my works building tomorrow :-)
[22:14] <fsphil> easy access to the roof? nice
[22:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> quite lossy as its a very thin cable
[22:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> normally used for short patch cables a foot or two, not long runs....
[22:15] <amell> ok i am all set up for tomorrow now
[22:15] <fsphil> ah steve's doing some rtty too
[22:15] <Rharrison_> Yeah not great but I only have a meter of it to connect to the yagi bmc
[22:17] <amell> on the map now
[22:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> JR-Chase is a good swimmer !
[22:18] <swaledale_steve> Steve is doing RTTY fsphil but those frequencies clash I think
[22:19] <daveake> yeah I think so
[22:19] <fsphil> anything planned for the calling channel?
[22:19] <swaledale_steve> I posted back to the group, think .650/.750 are free
[22:20] <swaledale_steve> No calling channel on the RPF flights fsphil
[22:20] <amell> steve is going to wipe out the lora
[22:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> be interesting to see how well it works I suspect it will work quite well LoRa can take quite a hammering.
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[22:22] <fsphil> I've heard mixed reports on that
[22:22] <fsphil> so could be a good test
[22:22] <amell> ive emailed steve
[22:24] <amell> Are all steves trackers frequency agile? he said 'old tracker'
[22:24] <amell> rocketboy: ping.
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[22:36] Action: Geoff-G8DHE afk for supper!
[22:41] <Rharrison_> daveake, any good setting for the lora-gw tomorow?
[22:41] <daveake> Just set frequency and mode=1, job jobbed
[22:41] <Rharrison_> Ok cool
[22:41] <daveake> Just choose whichever flight you fancy
[22:42] <daveake> Though if everyone chooses the same flight someone should manage some load sharing :)
[22:43] <daveake> Unless I'm struggling, then I'm quite happy for nobody to bother with the RTTY on my flight; I would like as much help as possible on the 869.85 lora though
[22:45] <Rharrison_> !flights
[22:45] <SpacenearUS> 03Rharrison_: Current flights: 03PICO-27 144.251 MHz CTSTIA32/1000 10(11ba)
[22:46] <Rharrison_> is there a list of payloads and frequencies?
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[22:47] <Rharrison_> ping daveake
[22:47] <amell> rharrison: check the ukhas mailing list, its all there
[22:47] <daveake> yeah I posted it earlier
[22:48] <amell> steve said he will change his freq on site.
[22:48] <daveake> As yet, lora frequency/mode details aren't included in payload docs, which is a shame
[22:48] <daveake> cool
[22:50] <amell> if we had a calling channel set up we wouldnt need it in payload docs :)
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[22:51] <daveake> no use for tomorrow; everyone would lock on to the first launch
[22:51] <daveake> Would need something cleverer to share the tracking
[22:52] <daveake> ideally based on distance from payload to receiver, plus number of active receivers per payload
[22:52] <daveake> Anyway I will do a calling-mode flight soon
[22:55] <swaledale_steve> Night all. Fun tomorrow.
[23:00] <daveake> yeah nn
[23:00] <Rharrison_> habitat should communicate with the lora-gateways to set frequencies automatically for the lora-gateway by callsign
[23:01] <Rharrison_> you know the location and just need to up date a web page which the gateway can poll and change to depending on request
[23:01] <Rharrison_> ideally with a manual override :-)
[23:03] <Rharrison_> I'm all set for 434 tomorrow on lora.
[23:07] <daveake> Like I said, habitat currently doesn't know about lora - we need an equivalent page for the lora settings to that we have for the rtty settings
[23:07] <daveake> Once that's done then yeah the gateway could get location, frequency and mode from habitat
[23:07] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[23:08] <daveake> I'd fly 434 lora myself but I ran out of aerial space on my little payload box :)
[23:09] <amell> get a bigger box
[23:10] <daveake> horrible thought
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[00:00] --- Tue Aug 9 2016