highaltitude.log.20160804

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[02:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BALLOONOLO-CHASE_CAR - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALLOONOLO-CHASE_CAR
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[04:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03(214)723-9758_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=(214)723-9758_chase
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[07:11] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-11 after 0319 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
[07:13] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
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[07:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP6NVB-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-12
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[09:44] <AndyEsser> question to the programmers here
[09:44] <AndyEsser> Parameter validity checks
[09:44] <AndyEsser> job of the caller, or callee function/method?
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[09:48] <zyp> for what?
[09:48] <mfa298> that may depend on where its likely to be called from and how much you can trust the caller to have done those checks
[09:49] <AndyEsser> hmm
[09:49] <AndyEsser> I typically prefer to assume that a caller has not read the documentation, adhered to a contract, and validate all paramters within the called function/method
[09:50] <AndyEsser> regardless of whether this might be a public API, or a private method within the codebase/service
[09:50] <nick_> My general view is that your packages should at least check anything that may cause your code to crash.
[09:51] <nick_> And if bad parameters may just give stupid results then weigh up how much you want to check vs how lazy you are.
[09:51] <rharrison_> http://gerblook.org/pcb/96wshj9TotgZfUdmDzXuw5#front :-)
[09:51] <AndyEsser> hmm
[09:52] <rharrison_> My effort for a prototype board.
[09:52] <fsphil> Icarus rises again
[09:52] <rharrison_> This is for testing on the ground not for launch.
[09:52] <rharrison_> fsphil, indeed using new tech :-)
[09:52] <nick_> Which microcontroller is this for?
[09:52] <rharrison_> I might need som help with them hoperf modules
[09:52] <AndyEsser> AVR 328?
[09:53] <mfa298> I'd tend to do some checks in my functions if im not sure I can trust the data or there could be bad results from it, similar to what nick_ says
[09:53] <rharrison_> yep
[09:53] <AndyEsser> mfa298: fair enough, cheers for the input (and nick_ )
[09:53] <fsphil> rharrison_: you probably don't need the crystal tbh
[09:53] <rharrison_> indeed just use the 8 on borad?
[09:53] <mfa298> probably depends a bit on what platform you're aiming for as well, sometimes you care about those CPU cycles (e.g. microcontroller)
[09:53] <rharrison_> or shoul i keep the divide in
[09:54] <fsphil> think so. only thing that might be bothered by clock drift would be the rs232 between the avr and gps
[09:54] <rharrison_> i2c :-)
[09:54] <mfa298> but then on a uC you probably control the caller and callee
[09:54] <AndyEsser> mfa298: at the same time, bad data passed into a function on an MCU could do more than just killing an HTTP connection :P
[09:54] <fsphil> oh nice
[09:54] <fsphil> yeah then dump the crystal
[09:54] <rharrison_> rev 2 :-)
[09:55] <rharrison_> cheers fsphil I'll do that mod on the final
[09:56] <fsphil> might be worth looking at the end-launch sma sockets too
[09:57] <fsphil> the ones that just slot onto the pcb edge
[09:58] <gonzo_> I meant to gte some of those from kevin at the weekend. But missed the boat
[09:59] <fsphil> he had everything
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[10:05] <AndyEsser> mfa298: relevant to our discussion :P https://i.imgur.com/GluNcro.jpg
[10:06] Action: fsphil dials 119
[10:06] <fsphil> fight the system
[10:06] <AndyEsser> 919
[10:06] <AndyEsser> 111
[10:06] <AndyEsser> 999
[10:06] <AndyEsser> 199
[10:06] <AndyEsser> 1
[10:06] <AndyEsser> 11
[10:06] <AndyEsser> 111
[10:06] <fsphil> 9111
[10:06] <AndyEsser> :P
[10:09] <fsphil> yay, we're hackers
[10:09] Action: mfa298 gets out the screwdriver
[10:10] <fsphil> that's cracking, not hacking
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[10:11] <mfa298> looking at that cover, if you didn't need 911 before, you'll probably need it after cutting your fingers trying to dial other numbers
[10:11] <fsphil> lol
[10:12] <nick_> rharrison_: that looks good.
[10:12] <nick_> Are the 0.1" headers for pins going below or a socket from above?
[10:13] <nick_> Really what I'm thinking is whether the inside labels will be visible once you plug something in.
[10:14] <nick_> And wihch set (inside or outside) are more useful to be visible.
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[10:35] <samme> Hi. Any good links demonstrating connecting the string to the payload box?
[10:44] <rharrison_> fsphil, I've put the uprights on as this is a test board and will be in my breadboard so I want easy access to the antennas or just stick wires in the rf out :-)
[10:44] <rharrison_> SAM uprights
[10:44] <rharrison_> SMA doh!
[10:50] <fsphil> yeah connectors are probably overkill for little pico trackers like this
[10:51] <rharrison_> I just want a robust prototyping baord for testing hab ideas out and as a basic it will ned GPS and RF
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[11:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[11:08] <rharrison_> IV3SRD-11 looks a mess either the GPS code is crap or it's only updating once in a while ?
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[11:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03STEVO1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=STEVO1
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[11:50] <rharrison_> Upu, do you have any of those black trackers from the 2012 UKHAS meeting ?
[11:53] <Upu> https://www.dropbox.com/s/tpj7mlcs8iwvedb/2016-08-04%2012.52.51.jpg?dl=0
[11:58] <rharrison_> Yeah I don't suppose there is a blank board kicking about ?
[11:59] <rharrison_> That was a great idea !!!
[12:00] <fsphil> did any get launched?
[12:00] <fsphil> I still have mine here
[12:01] <Darkside> mine is hanging on my door
[12:01] <Darkside> heh
[12:02] <Darkside> with a blinking pink LED
[12:02] <rharrison_> http://gerblook.org/pcb/dbtfTYnBrW3YQNy4p9zpuV
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[12:03] <rharrison_> This was my final submission after a few tweeks
[12:07] <Upu> they won't take the RFM board
[12:07] <Upu> the 2012 UKHAS ones
[12:07] <Upu> they were designed for RFM22B
[12:10] <Upu> https://www.dropbox.com/s/uco2uvbf1cagurm/2016-08-04%2013.09.39.jpg?dl=0
[12:10] <Upu> thats AVR + Lora + step up single cell tracker
[12:11] <Upu> frame snaps off thats just there for stenciling
[12:14] <AndyEsser> o yippee, interest rates dropped to 0.25% :(
[12:23] <Darkside> Upu: heh, those have worked out great..
[12:23] <Darkside> i do have a dead one though
[12:23] <Darkside> i think i killed a taoglas
[12:24] <Upu> yeah those antennas are amazing sauce but expensive
[12:24] <Upu> yes AndyEsser my mortgage rate is 1.2% so I have no complaints
[12:26] <AndyEsser> Upu: lucky you :P
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[12:32] <gonzo_> mine went down to something silly like 0.75% once
[12:34] <fsphil> time to buy more houses!
[12:34] <gonzo_> only if you can be sure it will stay bthat low
[12:35] <gonzo_> one is enough for me! (if I had another, i'd never rent it out, just full it with junk!)
[12:35] <fsphil> oooh good idea. moar space
[12:36] <gonzo_> I've built loads more in my garden. Reasonable size one and it's filling with sheds/workshops
[12:36] <gonzo_> permitted development aloows you to fill up to 50% of the plot (extsrnal of the house)
[12:37] <gonzo_> my calc was that I'm at 37% now
[12:44] <gonzo_> the neigbour joked about me just turning the whole garden into one big workshop. I had to warn him not to give me silly ideas. As it doesn't take much
[12:45] <fsphil> lol
[12:45] <fsphil> two floor sheds
[12:46] <gonzo_> you need to be warned as well!
[12:46] <gonzo_> actually there are height limitrs
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[12:47] <gonzo_> because the garden is long and narrow, I can't get anything too far from the boundary, so may 2.5mtrs height
[12:48] <gonzo_> and being a shortarse, i've built the roofs low. I'm OK but anyone 6ft will have to watch themsleves
[12:48] <SIbot> In real units: 6 ft = 1.83 m
[12:48] <gonzo_> hmmm, sibot will have to watch itself too
[12:48] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: underground
[12:49] <gonzo_> the first week I moved in, I dug test holes. Filled with watyre in minutes. End of that idea
[12:49] <gonzo_> otherwise I'd probablu have undermined the whole garden and house buy now
[12:50] <fsphil> a basement would be great
[12:50] <gonzo_> by
[12:50] <gonzo_> I love underground stuff
[12:50] <gonzo_> bunkers!
[12:51] <fsphil> buy a plot of land, just build the entire house underground :)
[12:51] <gonzo_> noooo, don't do this to me
[12:51] <fsphil> lol
[12:52] <fsphil> There was a field for sale not far from here, it looked like someone had started doing that
[12:52] <fsphil> had a huge hole in it with some foundations
[12:53] <gonzo_> you need land that is well drained. Which tends to be higher than the surroundings. But the reasin that it's higher tends to be, because there is somethimgv hard underneath
[12:53] <gonzo_> poss that was for a basement
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[12:56] <gonzo_> have looked at all sorts of underground designs. And the best, most fun, look to be first world war defensive stuff
[12:57] <gonzo_> building stuff undetected
[12:57] <gonzo_> sounds like a conversation for the bar
[12:59] <fsphil> yeah might've been a basement
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[13:05] <AndyEsser> fsphil: that's basically my plan
[13:05] <AndyEsser> buy some land, and just have it all underground
[13:05] <AndyEsser> zero planning permission needed :)
[13:06] <AndyEsser> usually better if there is an existing property on site for utilities etc
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[13:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD2EAT-7 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD2EAT-7
[13:14] <gonzo_> the hardest util to manage, if it's not avail, is water
[13:15] <gonzo_> fresh water that is
[13:16] <gonzo_> you could probablt collect and store washing water and bring in fresh water, or treat it
[13:16] <AndyEsser> Yea, I'd love to make something that's completely self-sufficient
[13:16] <gonzo_> but keeping lage vols of water needs thought and treatment
[13:16] <AndyEsser> recycle waste water
[13:16] <AndyEsser> hydroponics for veg
[13:16] <AndyEsser> solar panels/wind for electricity (since I doubt I could use nuclear :P)
[13:17] Action: AndyEsser is not a crazy isolationist nut
[13:17] <gonzo_> complete self sufficiency would nees lots of land and work
[13:17] <AndyEsser> I see it more as testing potential tech/processes for space
[13:17] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: for one person, I don't think you'd need huge amounts
[13:18] <AndyEsser> not going to manage it in a 1 bed flat, mind
[13:18] <AndyEsser> also, not taking into account clothing, building materials, etc
[13:18] <AndyEsser> just consumables
[13:18] <gonzo_> growing food would need a smallholding size plot
[13:18] <AndyEsser> eat less :P
[13:19] <gonzo_> the amount of manual labour to grow food would mean being well fed
[13:19] <gonzo_> we learned that in ww2
[13:19] <gonzo_> and you nee dto manage and store the food. As growing is seasonal
[13:19] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: it's seasonal if it's external
[13:20] <AndyEsser> you can internally manage seasons in a controlled environment
[13:20] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: I'm not saying this would be easy :P
[13:20] <gonzo_> amd rearing animals fopr meat takes quiet a lot of land, as there is an animal to keep alive fopr a while
[13:20] <AndyEsser> Vegetarian :P
[13:20] Action: AndyEsser devotes 1/2 his growing space to coffee
[13:20] Action: AndyEsser devotes other 1/2 to tobacco
[13:21] <gonzo_> so am I, but by proxy
[13:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WB8ELK-6 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-6
[13:21] <gonzo_> internal growing space takes energy
[13:21] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: I'm not vegetarian, but I could probably become one if I had to, say for... a 6 month + x years trip to Mars :P
[13:21] <Upu> ignore that just seeing which of these older trackers still work :)
[13:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[13:23] <gonzo_> wqonder if there will be off grid talks at emf?
[13:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SHUTIT - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SHUTIT
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[13:28] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: keep thinking about buying a few shipping containers and retrofitting them to attempt this as an experiment
[13:28] <AndyEsser> (like I actually have the time to do this...)
[13:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K2ZRO-9 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K2ZRO-9
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[13:36] <gonzo_> rust is going to be the killer with shipping containers, underground
[13:38] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: o no, the containers weren't for underground
[13:38] <AndyEsser> this was just a POC type thing
[13:39] <AndyEsser> for underground, I'd want to do it properly - pretty much entirely hermatically sealed, closed system
[13:39] <AndyEsser> ha
[13:39] Action: AndyEsser can dream
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[13:40] <daveake> gonzo_: the 2.5m limit is "relative to highest adjacent land". So shift some soil.
[13:41] <daveake> Mine is next to a retaining wall and land that is 1.2m higher than what the shed sits on.
[13:46] <Ian_> 12ft
[13:46] <SIbot> In real units: 12 ft = 3.66 m
[13:47] <Ian_> A ridged/pitched roof will increase the height from 2.5m to 3.66m, the angle of the pitch is not specified.
[13:59] <gonzo_> I did that as well!
[13:59] <gonzo_> if it's a double pitch roof, you can go 2.5mtrs at the eaves and 4mtrs at the peak
[13:59] <gonzo_> ridge
[13:59] <gonzo_> but..... if within 2mtrs of the boundary/house you are limited to 2.5mtrs at the ridge
[14:01] <gonzo_> within 2mtrs you also have to watch the buildings regs
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[15:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RPF-C1 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-C1
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[16:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RPF-C2 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-C2
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[17:19] <Rharrison_> Hey Upu thanks for the pointer on the Crystal and the Hope RF Device
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[17:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 035 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
[17:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WB9SKY-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB9SKY-11
[17:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KC9LHW-11 after 038 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9LHW-11
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[17:57] <Upu> nps Rharrison_
[17:57] <Upu> like I say if you want you're welcome to come along to the office and use the reflow oven
[17:58] <Upu> also when I looked I have some blank PCB's with RFM + GPS connected via I2C and Atmega
[18:04] <Rharrison_> Ooh Upu I could be interested in one of those? Do they have ISP or any breakouts?
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[18:09] <Upu> yep
[18:09] <Upu> 1 sec let me dig out the design
[18:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-11
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[18:11] <Rharrison_> Upu, that could have saved me the prototype :-) Though it was fun using eagle again
[18:11] <Upu> see PM
[18:12] <Upu> tbh forgot I have them
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[18:12] <Upu> thats the one Dave used for his mid air repeater shenanigans
[18:13] <daveake> Ah yeah need another gps aerial for those
[18:16] <Rharrison_> SMA active ant?
[18:16] <Upu> nah
[18:16] <Upu> chip
[18:16] <Upu> the original design had a very good
[18:16] <Upu> but very expensive Taoglas antenna on it
[18:17] <Upu> I think the antenna was £20 or something
[18:17] <Rharrison_> Ohh !
[18:17] <Upu> so redid it with a chip
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[18:18] <Rharrison_> Chip Ok?
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[18:19] <Upu> for a balloon yes
[18:20] <Upu> not going to work inside
[18:20] <SA6BSS-Mike> http://colinkarpfinger.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/00691-03-L.jpg its the blue one, smd antenna
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[18:21] <SA6BSS-Mike> or just solder a quarter wave 45mm wire as a gps antenna, same thing
[18:22] <SA6BSS-Mike> better pic :) https://store.uputronics.com/?route=product/product&product_id=72
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[18:31] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BALLOONOLO-7_LORA after 038 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALLOONOLO-7_LORA
[18:39] <bertrik> !flights
[18:39] <SpacenearUS> 03bertrik: Current flights: 03CLEAPSS1 10(964c)
[18:40] <bertrik> !dial DC2EH
[18:40] <SpacenearUS> 03bertrik: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[18:40] <bertrik> !dial DC2EH-11
[18:40] <SpacenearUS> 03bertrik: 03DC2EH-11 is over APRS. 144.8Mhz EU/Russia/Africa, 144.39Mhz USA, 144.64Mhz China
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[19:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening All
[19:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BALLOONOLO-CHASE_CAR - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALLOONOLO-CHASE_CAR
[19:10] <Upu> evening Tom
[19:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening Anthony :-)
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[23:08] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[00:00] --- Fri Aug 5 2016