highaltitude.log.20160728

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[06:22] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03MIKEL-1 after 034 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MIKEL-1
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[07:41] <PE2BZ> Good morning all !
[07:44] <PE2BZ> !flights
[07:44] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03Willunga High 2016 10(31c5), 03BARC 10(1446)
[07:47] <number10> morning]
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[07:54] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
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[09:18] <nick_> cm13g09: I wouldn't ever admit to NDing with an 105 mm light gun, but I've heard that happens now and again on Salisbury plains too.
[09:22] <cm13g09> nick_: lol
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[09:24] <gonzo__> I wouldn't call 105mm, light!
[09:25] <gonzo__> though prob depends what sercice you are in
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[09:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BARC - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BARC
[09:30] <AndyEsser> woof
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[09:33] <daveake> Had to get a 128GB card for this 'ere 4K action cam
[09:34] <daveake> Even that only has 4 hours recording time
[09:34] <pb0ahx> gm all
[09:34] <pb0ahx> !flights
[09:34] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03Willunga High 2016 10(31c5), 03BARC 10(1446)
[09:35] <pb0ahx> !payload BARC
[09:35] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Payload 03BARC 10(1446) 03$$BARC - 03PITS Test - 03434.25 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/910Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[09:36] <daveake> ping PE2BZ
[09:36] <daveake> Are you aware that you've been uploading failed telemetry (see the logtail) for (I think) weeks now?
[09:37] <daveake> It makes it difficult sometimes to see actual flight data
[09:37] <daveake> e.g.
[09:37] <daveake> [2016-07-28 09:35:11,996] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [ascii] '$$PE2BZ_LoRa,28841,00:00:00,0.00000,0.00000,00000,0,0,0,48.3,3.3,7.000*36ED\n' (4eb43ddf71ebda04c3f5b5e01538da34b3d60a969377ce401b4574f925919987) from PE2BZ
[09:37] <daveake> [2016-07-28 09:35:05,492] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: All attempts to parse failed
[09:37] <daveake> It'd be nice if you could turn that off.
[09:39] <gonzo__> is that an option in your sw? or is he doing some dev work?
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[09:47] <daveake> I think he's doing some ssdv tests, on a pi+lora but no gps, and hasn't turned off the telemetry
[09:47] <PE2BZ> daveake good morning.
[09:47] <daveake> easily done on the gateway; not quite as easy on the sender
[09:47] <daveake> Wondering why you're transmitting and uploading empty telemetry
[09:48] <nick_> gonzo__: 105mm shells are ~15kg IIRC.
[09:48] <daveake> It made it difficult to see some of my data recently
[09:48] <PE2BZ> I have been transmitting telemetry with GPS from home, but I moved the Pi to my work place where there is no indoor GPS reception.
[09:48] <daveake> right
[09:48] <nick_> The gun is "light" in the sense that a) a single person can lift parts of it to operate it on their own and b) you can hang it under a helicopter.
[09:48] <daveake> Any reason why it's uploading all the time?
[09:50] <PE2BZ> I have it set for one image every 3600 seconds and one telemetry string every 60 packets (after setting height to -1 that worked)
[09:50] <PE2BZ> But in between the SSDV images it keeps TX ´ing telemetry
[09:50] <daveake> Sure, but I was wondering why this is uploading. You don't have a payload document so the only effect is to spam the logtail
[09:51] <daveake> If you have no need for the telemetry upload then it can easily be disabled in the gateway
[09:51] <PE2BZ> That was the reason that I always stopped my gateway as soon as other flights started.
[09:51] <PE2BZ> I did not want to disturb the HAB flights
[09:52] <daveake> OK, but people (like me) do do tests sometimes, and their data scrolls off when yours goes on the logtail
[09:52] <daveake> But anyay if you have a use for it uploading then fine, but I can't think of one
[09:53] <daveake> All the packets are stored on the gateway anyway so I'm unsure why you want to upload them especially as you have no payload doc
[09:53] <PE2BZ> I would like to keep the telemetry tx on and disable the uploading. The tx is for testing with for example Ron (G8FJG) how far LoRa reaches from home to home
[09:53] <daveake> sure that I understand
[09:53] <gonzo__> BARC is up by the looks
[09:53] <PE2BZ> I indeed have no need for uploading empty telemetry
[09:54] <daveake> It's just the failed upload I'm surprised about
[09:54] <daveake> cool
[09:54] Action: PE2BZ is viewing the gateway.txt
[09:54] <daveake> Enablehabitat=n then :-)
[09:54] <PE2BZ> Thanks :-)
[09:54] <daveake> np :)
[09:56] <PE2BZ> my 2 gateways are silent now ;-)
[09:57] <daveake> ta :)
[09:57] <PE2BZ> Your welcome !
[09:57] <swaledale> !flights
[09:57] <SpacenearUS> 03swaledale: Current flights: 03Willunga High 2016 10(31c5), 03BARC 10(1446)
[09:57] <swaledale> !dial 1446
[09:57] <SpacenearUS> 03swaledale: Latest dials for 03BARC 10(1446): none
[10:01] <PE2BZ> daveake do you have experience with the lora RX in a crowded surrounding ? in a range of about 600 meters I have police Tetra @ 390 MHz, our own Tetra @ 429 MHz and local radio station at 86 MHz. The last lora flight I had no packets received at all, RSSI constantly being at -80 (and -125 with no antenna).
[10:03] <daveake> Er, not, we only have 6 dwellings in a 1km radius :)
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[10:04] <PE2BZ> daveake that´s nice ! I have ordered a 433 bandpass filter. Guess that would help :-)
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[10:05] <whiteg6> !flights
[10:05] <SpacenearUS> 03whiteg6: Current flights: 03Willunga High 2016 10(31c5), 03BARC 10(1446)
[10:05] <whiteg6> !dial barc
[10:05] <SpacenearUS> 03whiteg6: Latest dials for 03BARC 10(1446): 03434.45059 MHz, 434.451093 MHz
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[10:06] <G0WXI> !dial BARC
[10:06] <SpacenearUS> 03G0WXI: Latest dials for 03BARC 10(1446): 03434.45059 MHz, 434.451093 MHz
[10:07] <PE2BZ> !payload BARC
[10:07] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Payload 03BARC 10(1446) 03$$BARC - 03PITS Test - 03434.25 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/910Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[10:10] <pb0ahx> wat is right 250 or 450 ??
[10:11] <nigelp> 450
[10:12] <daveake> It's rare that their docs are correct
[10:12] <daveake> dial is much more likely to be correct
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[10:19] <whiteg6> 434.45
[10:20] <PE2BZ> nigelp thanks, what shift ? I see it in the noise but seems lower than 910 Hz
[10:20] <nigelp> shift 760
[10:21] <PE2BZ> thanks
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[10:36] <bertrik> I think I'll try receiving BARC from the netherlands
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[10:40] <pb0ahx> bertrik, here 720 shift dail 450.8
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[10:43] <bertrik> !dial BARC
[10:43] <SpacenearUS> 03bertrik: Latest dials for 03BARC 10(1446): 03434.44955 MHz, 434.4502 MHz, 434.450973 MHz, 434.4509 MHz, 434.45059 MHz
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[10:44] <bertrik> pb0ahx: you mean 434.4508 MHz ?
[10:44] <pb0ahx> bertrik, yep
[10:46] <bertrik> looks like the shift is way too high in the autoconfigure settings
[10:46] <pb0ahx> see http://pb0ahx.nl/stream.html
[10:46] <pb0ahx> yep corect
[10:47] <bertrik> I an see the signal, but I can't decode it yet
[10:49] <AndyEsser> getting closer to a decode for me
[10:49] <pb0ahx> few minuts than ok
[10:49] <AndyEsser> but that freq has lots of QRM for me :(
[10:50] <bertrik> 300 baud, right?
[10:50] <AndyEsser> yes
[10:50] <AndyEsser> can auto-configure in fldigi and then change the carrier shift afterwards
[10:51] <AndyEsser> PE2BZ: What elevation do you have your X-2000?
[10:51] <AndyEsser> V-2000*
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[10:54] <pb0ahx> plof thats fast
[10:54] <AndyEsser> going to land about 7m/s
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[10:56] <bertrik> hm, I played with some settings and now I can't find the signal anymore
[10:56] <bertrik> oh, out of range already
[10:58] <bertrik> good luck with recovery!
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[11:05] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VE2WMG-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE2WMG-11
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[11:17] <PE2BZ> AndyEsser my V-2000 is about 13 m ASL
[11:17] <AndyEsser> ah nice
[11:17] <AndyEsser> recommend the V-2000?
[11:19] <PE2BZ> For 6m, 2m and 70 cm I shurely do. Another choice could be the model for 2,70 and 23 cm
[11:20] <swaledale> Barc down already?
[11:20] <Vaizki> AndyEsser: don't you have a X50 already?
[11:21] <PE2BZ> My v-2000 is about 10 years now, I have to go up and replace the bolt with the clamping ring. The clamping ring seems to be broken so the antenna top moves a bit in the wind.
[11:23] <PE2BZ> AndyEsser https://www.funkelektronik.eu/hfcommunication/antennen/u-v-shf-vertikal/404/diamond-v-2000 if you click on the image it´s the bolt at the bottom of the right image. But after 10 years that´s not a big problem.
[11:24] <PE2BZ> I have had the X-510 also but on the top of the rotator I had to replace the rotator every 2 years.
[11:25] <PE2BZ> X-6000 would be my choice if you´re not interested in the 6m band, it add´s 23 cm
[11:25] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: I do
[11:25] <AndyEsser> was just curious about it
[11:26] <AndyEsser> thinking about something "more" for home, and the X50 in the truck
[11:28] <PE2BZ> AndyEsser but for satellite RX and radiosondes / hab´s you have to keep in mind that it´s not intended to look ¨up in the sky¨. I notice radiosondes @ 300 km distance where the signal is undecodable between 8 and 2 km (going down) and just below the 1800 meter it starts getting stronger and decodes till about 800 m above the ground.
[11:32] <AndyEsser> Yea, going to get a different antenna for NOAA satellite stuff
[11:34] <PE2BZ> Made a choice for the cable allready ?
[11:34] <AndyEsser> well I use RG213 atm
[11:34] <AndyEsser> and whilst it's a bitch to work with
[11:34] <AndyEsser> it is low loss :)
[11:35] <PE2BZ> And for multiple antennas, run multiple coax ;-)
[11:35] <PE2BZ> A switch is nice but limits to one receiver / antenna at the time....
[11:36] <arjunnaha> What's the best way to progress from a PITS board to making your own tracker?
[11:37] <PE2BZ> arjunnaha ¨making your own tracker¨ with or withoud the PITS board ?
[11:38] <arjunnaha> Without
[11:40] <PE2BZ> and without camera I assume ?
[11:40] <arjunnaha> For the moment, yes
[11:40] <arjunnaha> Just plain old RTTY without SSDV
[11:41] <daveake> Plenty of info in the wiki. I recommend an Arduino Mini Pro, plus a GPS breakout from Upu, and an MTX2 (ditto)
[11:41] <daveake> Knock those together and get coding
[11:41] <daveake> When that's all sorted you could do your own PCB
[11:41] <gonzo__> my usual comment here.... For RX only feeds, you can put LNAs at the antenna and use sat tv coax
[11:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03CLEAPSS after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CLEAPSS
[11:42] <arjunnaha> daveake: A MTX2 or NTX2B-FA? What's the difference between the two
[11:42] <daveake> mtx2 is smaller, but either will do fine
[11:42] <arjunnaha> Great, thanks
[11:46] <PE2BZ> gonzo___ I agree with the LNA at the antenna, but if you want / need to use a selective LNA a low loss coax and the LNA within reach has my favour.
[11:46] <gonzo__> agree
[11:47] <PE2BZ> That way I don´t limit my RX to one frequency band. A tunable bandpass in front of the LNA would be great. Who is going to make that ?
[11:47] <SA6BSS-Mike> yeah, agree, the 6,7 - 7mm tv coax is realy lowloss and for the cost its realy bargin
[11:47] <arjunnaha> Sorry, is the breakout for active antennas better than the chip antenna breakout?
[11:47] <gonzo__> but often, a filtered LNA, has saw filters that are wider than the useful bandwidth of the antenna
[11:48] <SA6BSS-Mike> I have fitted 5 - 2000Mhz lnas at the one antenna and a filterded 2/70 lna on one, not that much if any differance
[11:48] <PE2BZ> gonzo___ I was looking for SAW at 433 MHz but it had 8 dB passband loss and 20 dB at 432 MHz. That was not what I needed :-(
[11:48] <PE2BZ> SA6BSS-Mike you live in a rural environment ?
[11:49] <gonzo__> I think the ones in the habamps are about 10dB wide
[11:49] <gonzo__> to the 3db points
[11:49] <gonzo__> 10MHz wise
[11:49] <SA6BSS-Mike> not rural mut small village. it ofc makes a dif. i f u are in a noice city enviroment
[11:49] <gonzo__> wide
[11:49] <daveake> got there in the end :)
[11:49] <gonzo__> (I'll get there in the end)
[11:49] <gonzo__> snap
[11:49] <gonzo__> do I win that hand
[11:49] <PE2BZ> 10 dB wide ? lol
[11:51] <gonzo__> if you start looking at the gain of amateur collinear antennas, they are going to drop off as you go outside their desiogn freq
[11:51] <PE2BZ> I use the habamp, but I have a mechanical bandpass in front of it. I had much to much transmitters which produces images in the 400 - 406 MHz range and I had to filter them at the input.
[11:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03city_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=city_chase
[11:51] <gonzo__> not actually swept one, would be an ointeresting test to run
[11:52] <gonzo__> they may have a good match, but the patterns tend to go to shit (especially yagis)
[11:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03mumbai_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=mumbai_chase
[11:53] <AndyEsser> gonzo__ / PE2BZ - eventually this won't be RX only :)
[11:53] <gonzo__> the huge dynamic ranges of the mmic amps now, mean that often you can get away wioth large out fo band signals
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[11:53] <AndyEsser> so happy to run some RG213 instead for the time being
[11:53] <SA6BSS-Mike> qite a few sondes that will drop closeby next few days, unfortenatly the crops is still in most fields arond here, will not enter those int wx sonde hunts
[11:53] <gonzo__> fairy nuff
[11:53] <PE2BZ> gonzo___ I like my vertical logper 140 -1300 MHz. It´s indeed better between the HAM frequencies than the Diamond, on 434 MHz HAB´s the Diamond outperforms the logper
[11:54] <gonzo__> logP are roughly equiv to a 3ele yagi
[11:54] <PE2BZ> That means that I have a lot of 3 ele yagi´s :-)
[11:55] <gonzo__> interestingly, I has an S band TX module on a PCB logP. And interestingly, I could detect the loss of the PCB as the correct elements area of the logp got warm
[11:55] <gonzo__> interestingly interesting
[11:56] <gonzo__> 10 watts into an FR4 antenna
[12:01] <PE2BZ> gonzo___ do you fell the difference or you use a thermal camera ?
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[12:08] <PE2BZ> AndyEsser that leaves space for LNA with RX/TX switching support :-)
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[12:12] <AndyEsser> PE2BZ: tbh, I'd rather run all the feeds direct into my office and then switch/route from there
[12:13] <PE2BZ> AndyEsser np !
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[12:16] <AndyEsser> gives me better access and control
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[12:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03Legionowo after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Legionowo
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[12:54] <Vaizki> got a callsign today, OH2EYX .. that one was "free", a vanity one would be 170 euros or so
[12:54] <michal_f> congratz
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[12:55] <AndyEsser> woo
[12:55] <nick_> Vaizki: you just been some weird bacronym style thing to make it a vanity callsign.
[12:59] <gonzo__> easy, just change your name
[13:00] <gonzo__> top edward yacht xanvier
[13:00] <gonzo__> to
[13:01] <nick_> There's a water based H2O joke in there somewhere.
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[13:03] <Vaizki> changing my name would be more expensive than getting OH2JV.. :)
[13:03] <AndyEsser> haven't thought about what callsign I'd like to get
[13:04] <AndyEsser> M1ARE maybe
[13:05] <Vaizki> OG2BAD ... Mm mm
[13:09] <mfa298> AndyEsser: if you can get them I doubt there's many early M1 calls available
[13:09] <PE2BZ> M1ARE you QRV ;-)
[13:09] <AndyEsser> mfa298: yea
[13:09] <AndyEsser> M1ZZZ
[13:09] <mfa298> M1 was the old VHF only license (started in '95/'96) and the calls were dished out in sequency
[13:10] Action: AndyEsser ponders
[13:10] <AndyEsser> I'm thinking of M6 aren't I
[13:10] <AndyEsser> Foundation
[13:10] <AndyEsser> M6 -> 2E -> M0?
[13:10] <craag> usually yes
[13:10] <craag> although there are M3 calls
[13:10] <mfa298> M1ARE would have been the '96 summer exam and just a few in front of me in the queue
[13:10] <craag> and M1 ;)
[13:10] <mfa298> I'm M1ARI
[13:10] <PE2BZ> buy the upgrade package ;-)
[13:10] <AndyEsser> M6ARE then :P
[13:11] <PE2BZ> M6:-P
[13:11] <PE2BZ> And now in CW
[13:11] <mfa298> you might find some lists of whats available from a search on whatdotheyknow
[13:11] <AndyEsser> mfa298: yea, last one I saw was from like 2014 I Think
[13:12] <Vaizki> our Comms Authority has a web searchable index of call signs and a full excel download
[13:12] <AndyEsser> yea
[13:13] <Vaizki> so very easy to check for something you want
[13:13] <AndyEsser> it's annoying Ofcom don't
[13:13] <craag> our comms authority doesn't know what a unique key is
[13:13] <AndyEsser> and has to be done via FOI
[13:13] <mfa298> M1 is now equivalent to M0 (but may never have had to appreciate morse), 2E1 is similar to 2E0 (ditto morse)
[13:13] <Vaizki> Freedom of Information?
[13:14] <mfa298> ofcom/rsgb might have started publishing the lsit of whats free, at one point it looked like they got several FoI requests a month for the list
[13:14] <russss> we wrote a scraper for the website https://github.com/marksteward/callsigns
[13:14] <AndyEsser> ESE is available
[13:14] <russss> but you can only run it when you're looking for a callsign
[13:14] <AndyEsser> as of 2014
[13:15] <AndyEsser> not too fussed about my M6 tbh
[13:15] <AndyEsser> will be trying for Intermediate and Full ASAP
[13:16] <craag> good to hear
[13:20] <gonzo__> can you still keep your foundation/intermediate calls?
[13:20] <gonzo__> whe you gtet a full
[13:20] <craag> yes
[13:20] <craag> and can use them within their legal limitations
[13:20] <gonzo__> there was some winging about people keeping tgheir owl class B call, when they got a class A
[13:21] <gonzo__> your class b expired when you got a clsaa A. Butttt. whne they said all class B calls became class A, it broke the condition
[13:22] <gonzo__> I managed to recover mine
[13:23] <Vaizki> we don't have separate calls for different licenses, sounds weird
[13:23] <edmoore> AndyEsser: scipy-lectures.org
[13:24] <gonzo__> it's all a bit messy. Needs an international std for licenec class/callsigns
[13:24] <gonzo__> but there is far too much historical guff
[13:25] <gonzo__> at the last UK update, there was suggestion to drop all the regional identifiers. old men moaned. Even when it was suggested that they could be optiona;l
[13:26] <Vaizki> you can now choose your region is here because often people wanted one that was from their birthplace etc
[13:27] <gonzo__> in the uk, you get a basic call Gn/Mn but youchange it depending where you are txing from
[13:27] <Vaizki> and there used to be 4 different licenses, now only 2
[13:27] <Vaizki> ah
[13:27] <gonzo__> so going to scotland you become GMn/MMn
[13:28] <gonzo__> caused all sorts of problems with digital systems
[13:28] <Vaizki> I can imagine yes.. Like APRS
[13:31] <Vaizki> I have to do the remaining exam in the fall when I have time to study
[13:35] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03S-15 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-15
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[13:57] <AndyEsser> edmoore: context?
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[14:05] <Ian_> AndyEsser there was a time when RG213 was considered the standard. It's still very OK for HF, but as you gets to beyond 145MHz the losses become stupid. It's definitely not a realistic consideration at UHF; at least in my opinion.
[14:07] <Ian_> An X-50 for use with the truck? If you are setting up a pole temporarily at a location, maybe, otherwise it is unsuited. Better to get a mobile antenna if you are thinking of mounting it on a vehicle; Otherwise it's physical life will be very short.
[14:08] <Ian_> Your vehicle is normally your groundplane when mobile.
[14:09] <Ian_> PE2BZ I have a Watson W300 up for 15 years and lost the same screw. Not sure of the size but need to think about a replacement (screw) as I already have a replacement antenna.
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[14:12] <Ian_> For rx only systems swapping to non 50 ohm systems isn't necessarily a problem and can make life easier.
[14:16] <AndyEsser> Ian_: likely stashed with the truck, and deployed as required
[14:16] <AndyEsser> rather than for use on the go
[14:16] <AndyEsser> planning an HF and a UHF/VHF specific vehicle antenna
[14:17] <Ian_> It's not something that you can waggle about really. Better with a small yagi and a mobile whip
[14:17] <Ian_> Honest.
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[14:19] <Ian_> I'm currently thinking of picking up an 868MHz yagi, but with an advertised 23dB gain figure, think that it might just be a little narrow on the beamwidth to be really useful. 16dBD would be better. I believe.
[14:21] <Ian_> Then I would stand a slightly better chance of pointing it in the right direction, from a practical standpoint.
[14:24] <Ian_> Just bought some gold flashed stripboard. KEMO ELECTRONIC E005 STRIPBOARD, FR4, 100X160MM. Product information: Board Material: Epoxy Paper.
[14:24] <AndyEsser> you mean you can't get pinpoint precision by hand?! :P
[14:25] <Ian_> Hmmm. well, there goes the edge on a bandsaw blade! FR4 it was. I was hoping for SRBP.
[14:26] <gonzo__> advertised gain?!
[14:27] <Ian_> AndyEsser I think that I am a bit of a realist and so that's a definite NO. even with 16dbD
[14:27] <AndyEsser> heh
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[14:28] <Ian_> gonzo__ even Farnell are sinners in the antenna advertising stakes http://cpc.farnell.com/rf-solutions/ant-mf-yag23/antenna-yagi-868mhz-gsm-23db/dp/RF00411?CMP=CPC-PLA
[14:29] <Ian_> The stripboard was CPC Farnell, just for clarity
[14:30] <gonzo__> that could have some gain at either ISM or GSM, but not both!
[14:31] <gonzo__> I menat 1800GSM
[14:31] <gonzo__> but even trying to gtet it to work over 860-960 is a push
[14:32] <Ian_> Ha ha, gonzo__ I stopped reading at 860MHz to 960MHz. but see what you mean. dual band yagi ??? Probably means that it's tuned between the two bands and does a crap job on both.
[14:34] <Ian_> Also manufactured in China, so a commodity item rather than built by a specialist manufacturer.
[14:41] <gonzo__> just making one work over a >10% bandwidth on one band would mean it would be a pretty low gain yagi. And tryinmg to do N and 2N MHz !
[14:42] <PE2BZ> Ian_ they reduced the gain for you by adding 10 m RG58 ;-) That would not help for the beamwidth however...
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[14:45] <gonzo__> probably improves the match
[14:46] <gonzo__> (the match is probably just the cable loss. you could o/c the antenna and not see a difference)
[14:47] <Ian_> Ha ha, I had noticed that RG58 at that frequency is likely to be utter junk. I have always had a policy of nevery buying more than 10m of RG58 even if using at 2m due to the losses.
[14:48] <gonzo__> there are plenty of yagis out there (especially WLAN) that claim a gain, based on the element count. but in reality may be little more than unity. Pluss the huge coax losses of course
[14:48] <gonzo__> coax losses are fine, but need engineering in
[14:51] <Ian_> It does make selecting a decent antenna problematical when all the vendors are just making it up.
[14:53] <gonzo__> I foind a reasonable 900MHz design and just scaled it
[14:54] <gonzo__> but I've found that the best way to get repeatable yagis, is to go for medium gain wide bandwidth
[14:55] <gonzo__> the high gain ones are so sensitive to dims, that you are usually disapointed
[14:55] <gonzo__> the dl6wu design is my favourite for vhf and low UHF
[14:56] <Ian_> Every extra director is another chance to fail. I believe that anyone can make three to four ele
[14:56] Action: Ian_ googles dl6wu
[14:56] <gonzo__> k7mem has a nice online calc for those designs. I;ve built plenty and they just work
[14:57] <Ian_> Both bookmarked.
[14:58] <gonzo__> (there is some background reading for those desugns and it suggests that certain numbers of elements fit the modle best. But I've yet to have one fail)
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[14:59] <gonzo__> the k7mem calc is also for 50R feed DE (that is 50R for a split dipole at the given feed posn)
[15:00] <gonzo__> my choice is for a folded dipole and 1/2wave coax balun. For narrow AR bands
[15:00] <gonzo__> poss better choices for trying to cope with the whole 70cm band for example
[15:04] <mfa298> Ian_: did you mean to say that RG2133 isn't good for >145MHz, I'd say it's somewhere between RG58 and Westflex-103 so isn't bad for 145/430 unless you're doing stupidly long runs.
[15:04] <mfa298> RG-8 on the other hand may not be so good
[15:04] <Ian_> I believe that Aircell-7 starts to knock RG213 into a cocked hat much above 145MHz
[15:06] <Ian_> When RG213 became available an awful lot of AR was HF. It was the standard for a long time but doesn't really translate well to UHF, in my opinion.
[15:06] <Ian_> RG58 is, well convenient for mobile work.
[15:06] <Ian_> convenient != good
[15:07] <mfa298> RG213 is certainly better than RG58
[15:07] <Ian_> No argument there!
[15:09] <mfa298> I seem to recall the loss on rg213 was about half the loss of rg58, then the loss of westflex 103 was about half of rg213
[15:09] <mfa298> but the rg213 is a lot more manageble than w103, especially if moving it around a lot
[15:11] <Vaizki> I use aircell 7 but the custom connectors are a bit of a pain
[15:12] <Vaizki> mainly procuring them
[15:15] <mfa298> 17dB/100m @450MHz for RG213 (based on http://www.w4rp.com/ref/coax.html), so probably decent for up to around 20m
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[15:59] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PISKY4 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PISKY4
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[16:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KM4MRH-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KM4MRH-11
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[17:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KE5PLF-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KE5PLF-11
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[17:08] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PISKY6 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PISKY6
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[17:28] <Lazerman> Hello! Does anyone know how I can get in touch with some support for the Habduino board?
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[17:29] <Ian_> Yes, what is your problem?
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[17:30] <Ian_> Having said that it's teatime in the UK about now, so lots of people are sitting down to eat.
[17:30] <Ian_> Ask away
[17:32] <Ian_> ?
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[17:36] <mfa298> Lazerman: as above it's usually best to just ask, that way people will know if they can help or not.
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[17:41] <AndyEsser> did somebody mention ages ago that there's a channel for people heading to EMF?
[17:44] <mfa298> AndyEsser: I beleive there is
[17:44] <mfa298> not sure what it is though
[17:45] <AndyEsser> no worries, I'll see if fsphil knows
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[17:51] <AndyEsser> "open fires are fine as long as a fire pit or other ground-protection device is used"
[17:51] <AndyEsser> :)
[17:52] <AndyEsser> hmm, Improbably are a sponsor...
[17:52] <AndyEsser> Improbable*
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[18:03] <daveake> Lazerman: What's your question about HABduino ?
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[18:12] <Lazerman> Sorry, just came back from lunch myself.
[18:13] <Ian_> Upu many thanks, received this morning.
[18:13] <Lazerman> I've had it for about 2 weeks now and in that time I've only gotten gps lock for half a second
[18:14] <Lazerman> I'm powering the arduino from a 9v wall wart and I've left it running for several hours with no luck.
[18:14] <daveake> Indoors? Near a window? Outdoors?
[18:15] <Lazerman> Near a window for a long time, tried outdoors with open sky
[18:15] <Lazerman> No luck
[18:16] <daveake> GPS aerial plugged in (to the correct socket) ?
[18:16] <Lazerman> It may be worth noting I am using the US APRS version 4 board.
[18:17] <Lazerman> Yes
[18:17] <Lazerman> It only came with one..
[18:18] <daveake> Only came with one what?
[18:20] <Lazerman> SMA connector on the shield.
[18:20] <daveake> Odd. Should be one for GPS one for APRS
[18:21] <Lazerman> I was wondering that.
[18:21] <daveake> got a photo ?
[18:22] <Lazerman> Not atm, I can take one when I get home this evening.
[18:22] <daveake> ok
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[19:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03S-16 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-16
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[22:16] <samme> Hi....can I get the connection for SMA Female PCB with NTX2, thanks
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[22:18] <____BEN____> There is RF out on the NX2, you can wire this into an SMA female connector
[22:20] <____BEN____> Wire pins 1 and 3 to the outer part of the SMA female connector and pin 2 to the central part.
[22:21] <samme> ____BEN____: thats what I have been looking for! GREAT! Thanks :D
[22:21] <gonzo__> or just wire direct to lose some weight
[22:21] <samme> gonzo__: what do you mean by wire directly??
[22:22] <gonzo__> wire the antenna cable directly to the ntx2 module
[22:22] <____BEN____> the tiny weight increase is worth it
[22:22] <gonzo__> I tend to solder the antenna elewment direct to it, and no coax
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[22:23] <____BEN____> gonzo: what if you want an externally mounted antenna?
[22:23] <samme> ohhhhoo, I always assumed coax was required....
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[22:24] <samme> ____BEN____: my SMA female connector have 4 outer parts...can u instruct me further?
[22:24] <____BEN____> They are all connected
[22:24] <gonzo__> if you have a ponystyuene enclosure or similar, then the ntx can be insiode and the elenment just poke throughthe box
[22:24] <____BEN____> Send me a link/picture of your SMA connector
[22:26] <samme> hahaha ohhhhh ya hahaha...any pics for assembling the SMA connector?
[22:26] <samme> I know its soldering...still :D
[22:27] <____BEN____> http://www.tinyosshop.com/image/cache/data/wireless/Antenna/SMA%20female%205PIN-2-600x600.jpg
[22:27] <____BEN____> Is it this?
[22:28] <samme> similar but 90 degree
[22:28] <samme> http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/RP-SMA-female-jack-male-pin-right-angle-Panel-PCB-Mount-Square-4-2mm-Connector/32429657947.html
[22:28] <samme> female...I guess the pic is a male pin
[22:29] <____BEN____> It is also a reverse polarity SMA connector
[22:29] <edmoore> ____BEN____: is your username the equivalent of people who sit on the london underground with their legs opened really wide apart?
[22:30] <samme> ohhhh reverse polarity? huh?
[22:30] <____BEN____> edmoore:Manspreading is fun
[22:31] <____BEN____> and sort of a real word http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/manspreading
[22:32] <samme> this is the one I bought https://www.amazon.co.uk/Female-Panel-Solder-Connectors-Adapter-Gold/dp/B00AUB4OV0?ie=UTF8&ref_=pe_385721_140927871_TE_item
[22:32] <____BEN____> Reverse polarity SMA (RP-SMA or RSMA) is a variation of the SMA connector specification which reverses the gender of the interface, as shown in Figures 1 and 2. The term "reverse polarity" here refers only to the gender of the connector's contact pin, not in any way to the signal polarity.
[22:32] <edmoore> good word
[22:32] <edmoore> noted
[22:34] <____BEN____> RP-SMA isn't the best idea as it all needs to be RP-SMA for it to work
[22:34] <edmoore> though you can make quite a good, small, in-line attenuator with an SMA and an RP-SMA
[22:35] <samme> ____BEN____: after reading the description, I dont think my one is a RP-SMA
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[22:35] <Ian_> :) often unintentionally!
[22:36] <____BEN____> samme, good
[22:36] <samme> thanks for the new information :D
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[22:37] <samme> one last question, is there a range of NTX2 without antenna?
[22:37] <____BEN____> Just solder pins 1 and 3 to one of the 4 outer pins on the SMA connector and pin 1 to the inner pin.
[22:38] <____BEN____> samme, low
[22:41] <samme> alright and will my SDR dongle be able to decode if my payload box(with antenna connected) is on for example 10th floor or do I need Yagi antenna
[22:42] <adamgreig> kinda depends what's in between you
[22:42] <adamgreig> you should have _some_ kind of antenna on the SDR
[22:42] <____BEN____> a dummy load?
[22:43] <adamgreig> a dummy load is obviously not an antenna, so no
[22:43] <____BEN____> :P
[22:43] <samme> http://ru.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-USB2-0-Blue-TV-Stick-DAB-FM-DVB-T-RTL2832-R820T-SDR-RTL-SDR-Dongle/1294290_32695974703.html?storeId=1294290
[22:43] <samme> not the same version but the antenna is the same
[22:44] <samme> adamgreig: 10th floor and me being on ground but have a line of sight of the payload box
[22:45] <____BEN____> Yes, you would
[22:45] <____BEN____> That is only 20-40m
[22:45] <samme> ya approximately
[22:46] <samme> so is there a limit? :/
[22:46] <____BEN____> range wise?
[22:47] <adamgreig> yes it will probably be fine
[22:47] <samme> yea using RTL-SDR dongle
[22:47] <____BEN____> The manufactures say the limit is 500m, however people get 30 000m and more using yagis and good radios
[22:47] <adamgreig> over ground the limit is probably a few hundred metres
[22:48] <edmoore> ____BEN____: 300000m
[22:48] <adamgreig> pointing into the air changes things dramatically, you could expect maybe 50km to several hundred km depending
[22:48] <edmoore> would be quite typical with a yagi
[22:48] <____BEN____> sorry missed a zero
[22:48] <edmoore> even just a well positioned vertical
[22:48] <adamgreig> more than twice that even
[22:48] <adamgreig> our current record is apparently 678km which is easy to remember
[22:48] <samme> but I mean without using yagi
[22:49] <samme> wow!
[22:49] <edmoore> so long as there's line of sight and your local area doesn't have too much interference then there are really no limits at 50 baud
[22:50] <edmoore> as you increase the data rate samme than the range goes down, i guess that's sort of intuitive as there is less energy (power x time) per bit
[22:50] <____BEN____> samme, how are you planning to control the NTX2?
[22:51] <samme> edmoore: data rate?
[22:51] <samme> using Arduino UNo board
[22:51] <____BEN____> ahh
[22:51] <____BEN____> data rate is in reference to baud
[22:51] <edmoore> samme: baud rate
[22:51] <edmoore> so we often send 50 bits per second
[22:51] <edmoore> or 50 baud
[22:51] <____BEN____> bits per second
[22:52] <samme> understood (Y)
[22:52] <edmoore> there are 7 or 8 bits per 'letter' so that roughly means 7 or 8 letters per second
[22:52] <edmoore> if you crank that up then your range goes down
[22:52] <edmoore> for a given acceptable error-rate
[22:53] <edmoore> where the error rate is how many times the receiver things a 1 is a 0 or vice versa
[22:53] <samme> u cleared my doubt for the day! :D
[22:53] <____BEN____> You can drive it with timer1 interrupts on the Arduino Uno
[22:53] <edmoore> thinks*
[22:53] <samme> I m using interrupts
[22:53] <edmoore> that's the best way to do it definitely
[22:54] <edmoore> samme: are you launching from oxford?
[22:54] <edmoore> or am i confusing you with someone else?
[22:54] <adamgreig> 10 story buildings in oxford?
[22:54] <____BEN____> lol
[22:54] <samme> no hahaha I live in Manchester :D
[22:54] <edmoore> adamgreig: my solicitors was, just
[22:55] <edmoore> samme: apologies. me and names are not a good mix
[22:55] <edmoore> at the BIS conference last weekend 2 people who ukhas conferences-past came up and said 'hi ed!!' and i was at a loss
[22:55] <edmoore> knew that i had seen them before in my life but no name was forthcoming
[22:57] <samme> hahahaa its alright, have been in that situation ;)
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[23:00] <edmoore> there have been a few good launches from manchester tho in recent years
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[23:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[00:00] --- Fri Jul 29 2016