highaltitude.log.20160714

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[01:35] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-12 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-12
[01:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hondacrv_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hondacrv_chase
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[02:54] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD2EAT-15 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD2EAT-15
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[06:38] <PE2BZ> Guten Morgen
[06:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KZN_PITS - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KZN_PITS
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[07:31] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03S13 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S13
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[07:39] <Upu> morning
[07:39] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> gm
[07:40] <fsphil> *** Starting fsphil...... Error ***
[07:40] Action: AndyEsser uses Coffee.exe
[07:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Predator_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Predator_chase
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[07:42] <fsphil> *predator vision noise*
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[07:48] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> make your own hydrogen for your pico, anyone tried it ?? http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XHHO+GENERATOR.TRS0&_nkw=HHO+GENERATOR&_sacat=0
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[07:50] <fsphil> tried once but ended up making a bottle of rusty water
[07:51] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> hehe, seen it on youtube, the + anode tend to rust
[07:52] <fsphil> yeah. I'm not sure what material mine was made from
[07:52] <fsphil> I might have had too high a voltage too
[07:53] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> not so high voltage but u need current
[07:53] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> 12-14v 15-25amp
[07:53] <fsphil> my setup just wouldn't sink that much current at 12v
[07:53] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> ahh, u had to high voltage...
[07:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03kzn_hunter2_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=kzn_hunter2_chase
[07:54] <fsphil> which was my reason for trying a higher voltage
[07:54] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> ok
[07:55] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> this look good, http://www.ebay.com/itm/HHO-GENERATOR-BEC-1500-ENGINE-2000cc-DRY-CELL-HYDROGEN-13-PLATE-INOX-316L-/221906175201?hash=item33aaa384e1:g:7dcAAOSweuxWQ59c&vxp=mtr
[07:55] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> have to read up a bit about it
[07:55] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> http://s23.postimg.org/dyka03z6j/diagram1.jpg
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[08:00] <edmoore> SA6BSS-Mike|2: i have made hydrogen myself for interest's sake but never for a proper use
[08:00] <edmoore> it's quite cheap to just buy :)
[08:01] <edmoore> there was actually talk of making a hab ballast system that also made h2
[08:01] <edmoore> so for big latex long-duration floaters (before the days of pico) people looked at dropping ballast, e.g. james coxon's ballasthalo habs
[08:02] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> ok, have read about it, there was icecubes melting/evaporating during the fligt keeping it afloat
[08:03] <edmoore> we thought about using an aluminium shavings pack and dropping sodium hydroxide through it as the ballast fluid
[08:03] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> and some other alaborate things
[08:03] <edmoore> those two would reaqct to make hot hydrogen which you could funnel off into the balloon
[08:03] <edmoore> and the resulting aluminium hydroxide would fall to the ground, reducing the mass of the payload
[08:04] <edmoore> but also with an increase in lift from added hot hydrogen
[08:05] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> ok
[08:06] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> its not that expnesive but as I using so little of the rent for the cannister will be expensive even if I buy the smallest tube
[08:06] <edmoore> bill brown wb8elk had a really fun idea right when i first started hab
[08:07] <edmoore> he dangled a large block of sugar underneath his payload
[08:07] <edmoore> if it sank and landed in the sea, the dangling sugar block would dissolve
[08:07] <edmoore> and so reducing the payload mass for another liftoff
[08:07] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> hehe, nice
[08:08] <edmoore> http://hiwaay.net/~bbrown/hiball8.htm
[08:08] <edmoore> such a good think to have flat static html web pages that never change over the decades
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[08:47] <Vaizki> interesting... https://earthengine.google.com/datasets/
[08:48] <Vaizki> ready python ja JS apis
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[10:44] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03S-14 after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-14
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[10:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03STEE-L - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=STEE-L
[11:02] <pb0ahx> !flifgts
[11:02] <pb0ahx> !flights
[11:02] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03KZN HAB 2 10(ba43), 03WDF1 10(0e36), 03ISCA Pi Launch 10(97ea), 03PICO-26 144.251 MHz CTSTIA32/1000 10(0cf1), 03PICO-25 144.251 MHz CTSTIA32/1000 10(0b32)
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[11:11] <samme> Hi, I was checking up on hardware serial and came across this http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_libs_AltSoftSerial.html
[11:12] <fsphil> why not use the hardware serial port?
[11:13] <Darkside> only use software serial if you have no other alternative
[11:13] <samme> using Arduino UNO
[11:13] <samme> has anyone used AltSoftSerial?
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[11:14] <samme> Darkside: I had issues with software serial (GPS - RTTY)
[11:14] <fsphil> hence the many suggestions to use the hardware serial port :)
[11:15] <Darkside> for anything that requires strict timing, i.e. reading from a uart, use an actual UART
[11:15] <Darkside> if it means unplugging the GPS to program the arduino, then so be it
[11:16] <samme> fsphil : but according to the article it says Arduino UNo has no hardware serial port
[11:16] <Darkside> of course it does
[11:16] <fsphil> it has one
[11:16] <Darkside> thats how you are programming it
[11:16] <samme> ya I mean extra
[11:16] <Darkside> yes, it only has one
[11:16] <Darkside> thats fine.
[11:18] <samme> how to set up? need another Arduino board?
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[11:22] <gonzo__> software serial is ok, for timing critical stuff, but needs to be done under interrupt.
[11:22] <gonzo__> that is the next step up up porogramming foo
[11:23] <samme> I read several articles on interrupts as suggested
[11:24] <samme> gonzo__ : still vague about how to link :/
[11:30] <gonzo__> if it's not already supported in the example code, then it's probably a not for you just yet
[11:32] <samme> example code?
[11:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VE2WMG-10 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE2WMG-10
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[11:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03M10RS-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M10RS-11
[11:43] <Ian_> samme you are difficult to get hold of what with popping in and out all the time.
[11:43] <Ian_> did you ever get an answer to the resistor question you asked the other day or did you find the info yourself?
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[11:47] <samme> Ian_ : yes, https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2?rev=1399496254. someone provided. Thanks :)
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[11:54] <Ian_> Rgr, I didn't see a reply and thought it might have fallen through the net. But you are obviously using that on your tracker attempts.
[11:55] <Ian_> To use hardware serial for GPS and for transmission, you would need to switch between the two, \
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[11:56] <Ian_> ending before resetting the speed as appropriate. One task at a time!
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[12:04] <samme> Ian_ : meaning within the main loop, one task at a time?
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[12:07] <Ian_> Start serial, speak with the GPS and get your data, end serial, disable gps level changers, make your string and talk to transmitter, rinse and repeat.
[12:08] <Ian_> Debugging will be a bear, so you need to sort out both sides of it independently.
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[12:17] <samme> Ian_ : how to end softwareserial and disable gps?
[12:18] <daveake> End it? Remove. Kill. Incinerate.
[12:18] <daveake> Anyway no need - you can leave the (real, hardware) serial port open all the time.
[12:26] <Ian_> Point taken Dave.
[12:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VE2WMG-11 after 0321 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE2WMG-11
[12:27] <Ian_> Using Hardware serial for the GPS, the access to the gps pins will be controlled by the level shifter enable pin.
[12:31] <Ian_> The 50 baud to the tx is bit banged, and the NTX2B is enabled/disabled using it's EN pin. So the source/destination of the communications through the Arduino tx rx pins is appropriately directed.
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[12:46] <Laurenceb> any qt users here?
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[12:46] <Babs____> Afternoon everyone - are the project EIS guys on here today?
[12:46] <Babs____> eoS
[12:47] <edmoore> never eard of em
[12:48] <Babs____> Hmmmm
[12:49] <Babs____> Launch on Saturday - I could do with getting in touch with them
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[12:55] <daveake> Nick pcal was in habhub yesterday to get the flight doc approved
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[13:05] <Babs____> Ok thanks Dave - I've been tardy getting my launch doc uploaded for Saturday and it looks as if we are on the same frequency
[13:06] <Babs____> I've got an extension to my launch window from the cas but just wanted to check with him on exact timings
[13:06] <Babs____> *caa
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[14:03] <daveake> Was this from DM? I got an out-of-office reply from him this morning, so I've been dealing with someone called Ryan instead
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[14:52] <adamgreig> hey prog the airspy mini cna still do 10Msps IQ despite only 6MHz of useful bandwidth?
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[15:04] <SpeedEvil> you need about 10msps IQ to capture 6MHz
[15:04] <SpeedEvil> ideally
[15:04] <SpeedEvil> err
[15:04] <SpeedEvil> depending on your definition of sample
[15:04] <adamgreig> er
[15:04] <adamgreig> does it
[15:04] <adamgreig> 10MS/s IQ gets you 10MHz bandwidth right
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> yes
[15:05] <adamgreig> I mean it's obviously 20M numbers per second
[15:05] <adamgreig> but I think when you sya "10Msps IQ" it implies that :P
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> but you need >6, in order to sample 6MHz
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> I think
[15:05] <adamgreig> well like 6Msps IQ would give you 6MHz of observed bandwidth precisely
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> You ideally want to sample all the way up to the filter stopband
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> or that gets into your signal
[15:06] <adamgreig> my question is more about specs claiming 5-6MHz usable bandwidth and SRs of 10, 6, 3Msps or so
[15:06] <adamgreig> yea sure, edge effects aside
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I may be confused - need more or less coffee.
[15:06] <fsphil> 10mcoffee/s
[15:07] <fsphil> I'm having a similar day. I should try coffee. can't make things worse
[15:07] <lz1dev> are you sure? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhdCslFcKFU
[15:18] <fsphil> ok, yes it could be worse
[15:20] <prog> adamgreig: yes. 10MHz with 2 spurs.
[15:20] <adamgreig> cool
[15:20] <adamgreig> don't care much about the spurs I guess, just want good time resolution
[15:20] <adamgreig> reckon an rpi3 could log raw iq from that to an sd card?
[15:23] <Vaizki> Odroid with eMMC might be better?
[15:24] <adamgreig> sounds more expensive and a 64GB SD is really cheap
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[15:26] <Vaizki> true but 40MB/s sustained to SD sounds iffy
[15:26] <adamgreig> yea suppose so
[15:28] <fsphil> reduce it to 8-bit?
[15:28] <adamgreig> yea that'd do it
[15:28] <adamgreig> 20MB/s probably fine
[15:28] <adamgreig> and can probably be at least a little bit clever in the reducing
[15:28] <fsphil> simple dithering
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[15:28] <adamgreig> wanna do multilateration of this stupid rocket
[15:29] <fsphil> though I've seen fancy methods where the sample value is non-linear
[15:29] <fsphil> forget the name for it
[15:29] <adamgreig> so not really that fussed about anything except being able to correlate the time signals
[15:29] <adamgreig> well just non linear quantisation?
[15:29] <fsphil> sounds about right
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[15:41] <prog> adamgreig: IQ conversion on the rpi at 20->10MSPS is a bit tough. You probably want to record the raw stream from the ADC
[15:41] <prog> convert later in a PC
[15:43] <adamgreig> yea ok
[15:43] <adamgreig> might not bother converting later to be honest
[15:43] <adamgreig> rather have 20Msps raw
[15:48] <prog> use airspy_rx -t 5
[15:49] <prog> with the packing enabled
[15:49] <prog> -t 5 -p
[15:49] <prog> unpack and convert later
[15:49] <jakeio> Hello, when I've received telemetry and images using LoRa, how can I send them to habhub?
[15:51] <edmoore> stamped addressed envelope
[15:52] <jakeio> I'll work on automating that then...
[15:52] <edmoore> have a read of https://github.com/PiInTheSky/lora-gateway/
[15:52] <jakeio> Ah, yes, thanks.
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[15:56] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Also the habitat end http://habitat.readthedocs.io/en/latest/_modules/habitat/views/payload_telemetry.html
[15:57] <jakeio> Ah, thanks!
[16:02] <Laurenceb> any qt users here?
[16:03] <Laurenceb> s/users/developers/whatever
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[16:15] <russss> pjm: oh hi, is it you I'm tweeting at currently by any chance?
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[17:09] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KC9LHW-11 after 036 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9LHW-11
[17:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WB9SKY-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB9SKY-11
[17:12] chris___ (522e89f2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.46.137.242) joined #highaltitude.
[17:12] <chris___> Evening all.
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[17:50] <chris___> 53410ded70d38e322a4d2c9f21139542
[17:50] <chris___> whoops sorry.. wrong tab
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[17:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Oh that going to be close to Stansted tomorrow !! Like on the runways! http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=de4657b299d6aa85e6674badf7870321dbea9643
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[18:00] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03S-14 after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-14
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[18:08] <fsphil> eek
[18:09] <fsphil> chris___: ^^
[18:12] <kristianpaul> SpeedEvil: do you remember any project oriented to make really tiny electronics for solar balloons?
[18:25] <SpeedEvil> not generally available
[18:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Sven. DL7AD did a couple designs and solar balloon flights.
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[18:47] <chris___> Hi there, actually we wil lbe using 6 cubic meters of gas tomorrow so the landing site is forecast to be around Royston.
[18:49] <chris___> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=a47e5620e3b282830d1a34d52614daf63374dda1
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[18:50] <chris___> I actually expect it to come down to the west of Safron Walden
[18:51] <chris___> That is the plan anyway...
[18:52] <chris___> I've run the model for a lower ascent rate which still looks good.
[18:53] <chris___> fingers crossed the weather will be fine too
[18:55] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> kristianpaul: yes, dl7ad made monde realy small payload, and there is this feather hab
[18:55] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> http://protofusion.org/wordpress/2016/02/featherhab-source-code-released/
[18:57] <kristianpaul> +1
[18:58] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> http://www.dl7ad.de/femto21_back.jpg
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[19:01] <kristianpaul> :O
[19:01] <kristianpaul> wow
[19:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SCOOBY - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SCOOBY
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[20:03] <Vaizki> well I heard today that there's a HAM exam in the local club so popped in and got that done :)
[20:05] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03STABILOTRON-II after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=STABILOTRON-II
[20:11] <gonzo__p> which level?
[20:15] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> did you pass?
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[20:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03default_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=default_chase
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[20:59] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB-11 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB-11
[21:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD0VYQ-1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0VYQ-1
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[21:05] <Babs> Evening everyone - is someone able to approve my flightdoc on habhub?
[21:06] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> Stabilotron-II hardware test is approved
[21:08] <Vaizki> of course I passed.. it's the "base level", not sure what it maps to in the UK
[21:08] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> congrats :) !!
[21:08] <Vaizki> basically all bands, 150W max power at 30MHz and below, 30W on VHF/UHF etc
[21:10] <Vaizki> there are only 2 levels left here, "base" and "general"
[21:12] <Babs> Thanks Mike - appreciate it
[21:15] <Vaizki> oops I typo'd even that.. 120W in base class, 1500W in general class :)
[21:20] <Vaizki> hmmh uk foundation license is 10W of tx power? that's a bit QRPish...
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[21:24] <Vaizki> and full license is 400W? ok wow now the 1500W here seems generous..
[21:27] <fsphil> that's right
[21:31] <AndyEsser> it's 10W erp as well isn't it?
[21:31] <AndyEsser> which I guess means if you have a 3db yagi means 5W from a TX?
[21:31] <Vaizki> we used to have a bunch of license levels here but with the hobby not exactly blossoming I guess they just decided to roll it into two, the 120W and 1500W ones
[21:32] <Vaizki> there's no band restrictions on the base level either
[21:32] <fsphil> uk foundation has just 70cm and lower iirc
[21:32] <AndyEsser> I should know this...
[21:33] <AndyEsser> eurgh, it's 10.30.. why am I making coffee :(
[21:34] <Vaizki> fsphil: well hf + 70cm is not a bad restriction
[21:34] <fsphil> yeah. anyone who can use ghz equipment will be past the foundation level pretty quickly
[21:35] <Vaizki> there's some crazy band allocations.. like the 248-250GHz one .. :)
[21:35] <AndyEsser> wow
[21:35] <Vaizki> not for the average diy rig
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[21:37] <Vaizki> can run at 600W PEP too
[21:37] <Vaizki> drop some birds from the sky
[21:38] <Vaizki> nice, they even provide the allocations in english.. https://www.viestintavirasto.fi/attachments/maaraykset/Amateur_sub-band_and_maximum_allowed_transmitting_powers.pdf
[21:42] <fsphil> strange that up to a few ghz is simple, optical/thz is simple. but everything in between is really hard to work with
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[21:44] <AndyEsser> apparently amateurs here in the UK have access to 122, 134 and 248 GHz
[21:44] <Vaizki> well I'd bet that there's maybe 2 or 3 who have done anything up there..
[21:44] <Vaizki> maybe even across the room :)
[21:45] <fsphil> there are ism bands up in that area too
[21:45] <AndyEsser> Heh, got access to 24GHz as well, although specifically blocked on K Band
[21:45] <AndyEsser> guessing they don't want us interfering with radar :)
[21:46] <fsphil> 244-246 ghz is 100 mW eirp ISM
[21:46] <Vaizki> it's a bit difficult in those bands.. test equipment that goes beyond 22GHz is not exactly run of the mill at radio clubs etc :)
[21:46] <fsphil> and may be used airborne :)
[21:46] <AndyEsser> fsphil: are you thinking what I'm thinking
[21:46] <AndyEsser> :)
[21:47] <gonzo__> the uk microwave group do a newsletter and there are a few people playing up at tha many ghz
[21:48] <fsphil> wavelength is 1.2mm
[21:48] <gonzo__> but they are doing km ranges
[21:48] <gonzo__> 24ghz is still relativly easy
[21:48] <fsphil> could make an antenna array on a pcb
[21:48] <AndyEsser> fsphil: and get some good data rates possibly
[21:48] <fsphil> you ain't getting much range on 245ghz :)
[21:48] <gonzo__> 47 more of a challenge. But pjm has played up there for saycom rk
[21:48] <gonzo__> rx
[21:49] <AndyEsser> fsphil: possibly :P
[21:49] <AndyEsser> haha
[21:49] <Vaizki> I guess 28GHz is going to get 5G millimeter wave cellular at least on it
[21:50] <fsphil> getting 245ghz mixed down to something more useful must be quite a challange
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[22:13] <gonzo__p> I think they use just harmonic mixers. LNAs are a bit challenging up there
[22:13] <gonzo__p> 47ghz is doable, but only because commedcial devices are avail
[22:14] <gonzo__p> but you have to wirebond to the die
[22:14] <gonzo__p> (too hardcore for me)
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[23:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[23:36] <Laurenceb__> http://shitelonsays.com/transcript/elon-musk-lecture-at-the-royal-aeronautical-society-2012-11-16
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> More people need transcript sites
[00:00] --- Fri Jul 15 2016