highaltitude.log.20160705

[00:00] <adamgreig> his plan was to wake up in time, so hopefully not still up!
[00:01] <DrLuke> ah
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[00:13] <mattbrejza> adamgreig: you staying up?
[00:14] <adamgreig> wasn't specifically planning on it
[00:14] <adamgreig> but depends on how long it takes to place this farnell order
[00:14] <adamgreig> might well end up staying up :P
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[00:33] <Guest53020> Hi I have some quick questions
[00:34] <adamgreig> shoot
[00:36] <Guest53020> what is the altitude range the balloons operate in?
[00:36] <Guest53020> how much time does it take to reach from ground level to the top? (estimate)
[00:37] <adamgreig> they start at ground level (of course) and typically rise to 20 to 40km (around 100,000 ft)
[00:37] <SIbot> In real units: 100,000 ft = 30.5 km
[00:37] <adamgreig> they often take around two hours to reach that top altitude
[00:37] <Guest53020> is there any kind of balloon with altitude control, so that it can stay in the same height for a long period without bursting?
[00:38] <adamgreig> it's difficult but yes it is possible
[00:38] <Guest53020> and is there any kind that can be geo-stationary, staying in the same spot.
[00:38] <adamgreig> one common way is to use a stronger envelope, so instead of expanding (like a normal balloon), it stays the same size, so it will float at one altitude
[00:39] <adamgreig> in general no, you have to go with the wind, but it is (very difficult but) possible to go up and down in altitude to ride winds in different directions to try and station-keep over one large area
[00:40] <Guest53020> whats the usual / max payload weight/
[00:41] <adamgreig> varies from 10 grams on a very lightweight floating balloon, to around 1kg typical for a camera and gps and backup tracker perhaps
[00:42] <adamgreig> maximum recommended weight for an amateur project is perhaps 2kg or so, but in practice you can go up substantially if you spend enough money on balloons and helium
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[01:01] <SpeedEvil> Ideally, you should design the payload so you would not mind it falling on your head if the parachute doesn't open
[01:01] <SpeedEvil> IMO
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[01:37] <Guest53020> thanks :)
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[02:53] <Vaizki> ah what a lovely juno morning
[02:56] <Vaizki> 2 minutes to burn for orbit insertion if I heard right
[02:56] <adamgreig> 2m? thought 21
[02:56] <adamgreig> https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/juno/main/index.html
[02:56] <Vaizki> that's me thinking vs reality then!
[02:57] <Vaizki> ah. I just have the ustream open on another screen
[02:59] <Vaizki> well I have coffee and karelian pies with smoked pork shoulder & cheese.. and still living in China time so woke up without an alarm :)
[03:03] <Vaizki> btw that URL only semi-works for me, lots of errors about embedding unsecure content into a https page..
[03:03] <Vaizki> by using http:// instead of https:// the embedded ustream and other stuff works for me
[03:06] <edmoore> yo
[03:09] <SpeedEvil> Nasas website makes me increasingly angry as time goes on
[03:11] <Vaizki> yo yo
[03:11] <Vaizki> eddie edwards is on nasa tb
[03:11] <Vaizki> tv :)
[03:17] <edmoore> no audio?
[03:17] <edmoore> oh no audio
[03:17] <edmoore> 1m
[03:18] <Vaizki> I have audio on the ustream
[03:19] <edmoore> yessssssss
[03:19] <Vaizki> burn baby burn!
[03:19] <adamgreig> hurray
[03:20] <Vaizki> 35min burn is pretty extreme I think?
[03:21] <edmoore> no mad
[03:21] <edmoore> the thrust on these in-space engines is much lower
[03:22] <adamgreig> surprised the indication that it's working is doppler residuals and not telemetry from juno
[03:22] <Vaizki> no mad? and yes I know it's not a saturn V engine strapped on.. :)
[03:22] <adamgreig> wouldve thought it had an accelerometer or something
[03:22] <adamgreig> I guess the doppler residuals come in quicker than telem packets
[03:22] <edmoore> doppler is hard to mess with and uses little power
[03:23] <Vaizki> I'm not sure if they trust accelerometers in that environment?
[03:23] <edmoore> they would i'm sure!
[03:23] <edmoore> in as much as they've bothered to send lots of science instruments
[03:23] <Vaizki> well that's to find out what it's like.. :)
[03:23] <Vaizki> (cue monty python sketch)
[03:24] <adamgreig> bedtime, hope the burn goes well
[03:24] <adamgreig> too tired to stick around to its conclusion but I figure stopping is the easy part :P
[03:24] <edmoore> :)
[03:25] <edmoore> so long as there's no heat sock into the valves
[03:25] <edmoore> or some other horror
[03:25] <Vaizki> who do I have to kill for one of those shirts with the Juno mission logo...
[03:25] <edmoore> bill nyw, no less
[03:25] <edmoore> er
[03:28] <Vaizki> I'm not too fond of NASA TV starting to look like CNN's scaremongering loop, scifi movie style trailers etc.. but I guess you got to do that to keep the funding going nowadays..
[03:28] <edmoore> 500W = that's er 5 x 100W lightbulbs
[03:28] <Vaizki> :D
[03:28] <Vaizki> please note comparison to basketball court
[03:29] <Vaizki> which is a standard unit of measurement in the US
[03:35] <edmoore> arko: you around?
[03:50] <edmoore> 53 day orbits
[03:50] <edmoore> pretty substantial
[03:54] <edmoore> engine off
[03:54] <edmoore> excellent
[03:54] <Vaizki> whee
[03:56] <SpeedEvil> Or not whee. Onomatopoea for silent coasting is hard.
[03:59] <edmoore> let's go back to stoo-word
[04:03] <edmoore> slick
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[06:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BK-Ostvest2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BK-Ostvest2
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[06:34] <BK-Ostvest2> good morning everybody
[06:35] <BK-Ostvest2> We planed the start from the ballon at 9am
[06:35] <BK-Ostvest2> so far anything is running fine
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[06:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CHANGE-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CHANGE-11
[06:40] <fsphil> good to see everything went well last night at jupiter!
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[06:53] <BK-Ostvest2> soooo.....
[06:54] <BK-Ostvest2> we will start soon
[06:54] <Vaizki> everything is fine in Nigeria? :O
[06:54] <BK-Ostvest2> :D:D:D
[06:55] <Vaizki> well just wondering...
[06:56] <BK-Ostvest2> sry for the false coordinates
[06:58] <BK-Ostvest2> the ballon is full, the box is almost ready
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[07:05] <Vaizki> so where is it really?? :O
[07:05] <BK-Ostvest2> in germany, datteln
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[07:26] <DL5APR> now he is back in germany ;-)
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[07:27] <BK-Ostvest2> The ballon Startet now :D
[07:30] <Vaizki> new speed record right there
[07:32] <Vaizki> BK-Ostvest2: next time set a "location good" filter on your payload data so that habub won't plot you on the map until you have a real GPS lock :)
[07:33] <Vaizki> sheesh PE2BZ_LoRa is flooding the habhub logtail
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[07:35] <Vaizki> $$BK-Ostvest2,93,51.66464,7.39861,100,4453,29,12,07:33:48*D878
[07:35] <Vaizki> ok.. well that's a short telemetry string :)
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[07:42] <fsphil> weird seeing time at the end
[07:42] <AndyEsser> edmoore: how was it?
[07:42] <AndyEsser> (Juno)
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[07:44] <Vaizki> it was all good
[07:46] <Vaizki> soon 32500 telemetry packets from PE2BZ_Lora and none parsed...
[07:47] <Vaizki> I assume all of these will stick around in the db forever? :)
[07:47] <Vaizki> ah apparently not
[07:47] <fsphil> another juno engine burn coming up in october to tighten the orbit
[07:48] <Vaizki> only after 2 flybys?
[07:48] <Vaizki> after only 2 flybys? :)
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[07:49] <fsphil> after only 1, the first orbit is 54 days
[07:50] <fsphil> wait
[07:50] <fsphil> *counts on fingers*
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[07:50] <fsphil> yeah it'll be into its second orbit by then
[07:51] <gonzo__> can we get juno on habhub then?
[07:51] <Vaizki> what's the major limiting factor for lifetime? it's solar powered so radiation exposure and debree collisions?
[07:52] <fsphil> radiation mostly
[07:52] <fsphil> was reading up on the camera, they only expect it to last for 8 orbits
[07:53] <fsphil> the rest of the parts should be a bit hardier
[07:53] <Vaizki> well 8 orbits is not bad in those conditions
[07:53] <fsphil> yeah
[07:54] <Vaizki> 200 000 rads or something
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[07:59] <fsphil> it would be nice to see the clouds of jupiter at the terminator. all the images are usually from so far away that everything looks perfectly flat
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[07:59] <fsphil> no science value in it, but some shadows would be nice :)
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[08:14] <Vaizki> shadows on what? I think all the visible stuff on jupiter is just gas, increasing in density as you go closer to the core
[08:15] <Vaizki> not sure how that works with clouds and shadows
[08:16] <fsphil> higher clouds casting shadows on the lower layers
[08:18] <gonzo__> the radiation susseptability for unshielded consumer grade descretes/74 type stuff, is about the same as humans
[08:18] <gonzo__> (that is to death, rather than malfunctions, in both cases)
[08:19] <gonzo__> I used to work on robots that crawled around in the air cooling vents of reactors
[08:19] <fsphil> jupiter has water clouds, thunderstorms, so it might even have similar cloud shapes
[08:19] <SM0ULC-Reb> morrn!
[08:20] <fsphil> g'morn
[08:24] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS15 after 0319 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS15
[08:24] <richardeoin> ^ testing, sorry
[08:26] <Vaizki> nothing wrong with testing...
[08:30] <richardeoin> I normally use a different aprs id thing for testing, but got mixed up :P
[08:34] <edmoore> AndyEsser: it wenbt well
[08:37] <Vaizki> so BK-Ostvest2 is moving but altitude is fixed at 100m.. well at least it's in Germany still..
[08:38] <PH3V> Freq 434.574.6 Indeed ...no v speed!
[08:39] <PH3V> Strong signal here in the western part of Holland
[08:39] <Vaizki> yup
[08:39] <Vaizki> must be at least 12km up to be heard there?
[08:40] <PH3V> No v reading so .... dunno ;-)
[08:40] <Vaizki> how far away are you?
[08:40] <PH3V> 272 km
[08:40] <dg3yjb> And it loks like the payload of BK-Ostvest2 had a short hardware reset
[08:41] <Vaizki> sequence numbers zero'd?
[08:41] <dg3yjb> the signal was a time not to hear and the number of the pakets decreased from 266 to 3
[08:41] <PH3V> I tought it was pre-programmed but now it's running for a several minutes
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[08:43] <PH3V> You are right Vaizki .. He had a reset. Nr 24 at the moment
[08:43] <Vaizki> well maybe it's got a knackered gps, can't get enough satellites and is then giving out a "default" height or something
[08:44] <PH3V> Never seen this this before
[08:44] <Vaizki> it would be nice to have #sats on the the telemetry.. :)
[08:44] <PH3V> :-)
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[08:45] <Vaizki> wait it looped back...
[08:46] <Vaizki> a very sharp u-turn :O
[08:47] <pb0ahx> !flights
[08:47] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03BK-Ostvest2 10(edcf), 03PICO-25 144.251 MHz CTSTIA32/1000 10(0b32)
[08:47] <Vaizki> so it must be around 28-29km already to start going back
[08:47] <PH3V> Indeed... Funny
[08:47] <Vaizki> and will soon burst
[08:47] <PH3V> Think so
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[08:48] <DK6GB> hi
[08:48] <Vaizki> it will end up on the front door of paderborn university
[08:49] <PH3V> :-)
[08:49] <PH3V> It's a glider
[08:50] <Vaizki> really?
[08:51] <PH3V> Who nows? Perhaps it's a stealth project
[08:52] <PH3V> ;-)
[08:54] <DK6GB> new stealth project from Angela Merkel :)
[08:54] <DK6GB> bad telemetrie :(
[08:55] <DK6GB> Beim nöchsten mal wird es bestimmt besser.
[08:55] <PH3V> Hahaha
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[08:58] <Vaizki> probably on the way down now...
[08:59] <DK6GB> Yes I thin the same
[09:00] <DK6GB> Unfortunately , we do not know how high it flew
[09:00] <x-f> it should be going east not west then, it think
[09:01] <Vaizki> well it will go west for a bit after burst
[09:01] <Vaizki> then go back east again
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[09:02] <x-f> usually the internal temp goes down sharply after burst, it hasn't happened yet
[09:02] <DK6GB> comes back to the starting place in Datteln
[09:03] <Vaizki> well the wind turns at somewhere above 20km so it went at least that high
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[09:05] <DK6GB> .
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[09:07] <Vaizki> it's turning back east I think..
[09:09] <Vaizki> yup
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[09:11] <Vaizki> good luck with the recovery :O
[09:12] <g8fjg> just too late for bk ostvest $$m^Q,103,51.67946,8.21768,100,4296l10,-8,09:08TDA7B
[09:17] <Vaizki> well it's a guessing game since it doesn't give us altitude info :)
[09:18] <Vaizki> it's definitely on the way down but how fast and how high did it go? no idea
[09:18] <PA0RPA> Too bad we can't see the hight. Modulation is exxelent, much better as many English balloon........
[09:19] <Vaizki> only way to guess is look at the horizontal direction of travel and try to correlate that with altitude
[09:19] <x-f> run several predictions and see which one matches the most
[09:20] <Vaizki> hmm yea that too
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[09:23] <Vaizki> well based on how it's behaving I call landing on the hills west of Bad Driburg
[09:23] <Vaizki> get your hiking boots..
[09:26] <DK6GB> yes very good signal
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[09:26] <PA0RPA> OstVest must be gooing down now, getting only bad checksums now in FL Digi. Good hunting boys !
[09:27] <DK6GB> the signal is weaker
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[09:27] <PA0RPA> I lost him here in Holland.
[09:28] <Vaizki> PA0RPA: at what distance?
[09:29] <PA0RPA> ca. 285 km distance from Bergen op Zoom.
[09:29] <DK6GB> PA0RPA which antena you use
[09:29] <PH3V> Steady copy at 284 km
[09:29] <PA0RPA> I still hear him, but no detection any more.
[09:31] <DK6GB> distance 94km and still decode
[09:31] <PH3V> 11el, SP 70 SSB electronics Preamp
[09:34] <PH3V> Very weak signal, still a copy
[09:34] <PH3V> 292 km ... gone
[09:35] <Vaizki> are they chasing it?
[09:35] <Vaizki> 292km radio horizon would be around 5000m height
[09:36] <PH3V> copy agn
[09:38] <PH3V> Gone
[09:39] <PH3V> Slightly in the waterfall
[09:40] <Vaizki> wow good catch by ROS on that latest packet..
[09:41] <PH3V> Meteorscatter ;-)
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[09:43] <DK6GB> the world is flat
[09:44] <dg3yjb> congrats Gregor
[09:44] <DK6GB> please don´t hit me ;)
[09:44] <Vaizki> the hills west of Bad Driburg are 400m ASL
[09:47] <fsphil> sporadic-e
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[10:08] <BK-Ostvest2> Landing Position: N 51.71694 E 008.98472
[10:09] <BK-Ostvest2> via GPS-Tracker
[10:16] <Vaizki> 12:23 vaizki: well based on how it's behaving I call landing on the hills west of Bad Driburg
[10:16] <Vaizki> via vaizki :)
[10:16] <Vaizki> great that you got a position.. what GPS-Tracker? SPOT?
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[10:33] Nick change: Matthias -> matthias
[10:55] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[10:55] <SM0ULC-Reb> hello
[10:55] <SpeedEvil> hey
[10:56] <SM0ULC-Reb> trying to get habhub to import VE3KCL-9 from APRS
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[11:05] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[13:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MORPH - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MORPH
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[16:46] <PE2BZ> !flights
[16:46] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03BK-Ostvest2 10(edcf), 03PICO-25 144.251 MHz CTSTIA32/1000 10(0b32)
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[18:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CE1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CE1
[18:31] <pb0ahx> wat is frequentie off CE1 ??
[18:31] <Chimpusmaximus> Its just a payload test
[18:32] <pb0ahx> Chimpusmaximus, tnx info
[18:32] <Chimpusmaximus> not sure why Altitude was so far out
[18:37] <DrLuke> Chimpusmaximus: I'd guess integer underflow
[18:38] <Chimpusmaximus> also appear to have to fix longitude. Must not be adding - when reading it in
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[19:04] Nick change: xfce -> Guest46564
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[20:51] <amell> Is someone launching morph into space tomorrow?
[20:52] <mfa298> i believe daveake is
[20:52] <amell> Aha
[20:53] <amell> Someone was asking me about it. Was in the press apparently
[20:53] <mfa298> along with NAILBRUSH and CHAS
[20:53] <mfa298> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/4W6CFy6BnJ0
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[21:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ5AM-2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ5AM-2
[21:37] <fsphil> !space
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[21:54] <daveake> Space ??
[21:54] <DrLuke> spaaace!
[21:55] <daveake> Anyway, yes there's an animated Morph character going up to near space tomorrow
[21:56] <gonzo___m> we will not take it to hart
[21:56] <daveake> :)
[21:57] Action: daveake wonders how many here will get that reference
[21:57] <gonzo___m> I won't be drawn on this
[21:57] <gonzo___m> not many of us old gits on here
[21:57] <daveake> Don't make a scene
[21:58] <mfa298> shoudl be some good stuff for the gallery
[21:58] <gonzo___m> I have a vision-on that
[21:59] <Vaizki> old gits from the continent might not get it either :(
[21:59] <daveake> I've even cleaned the green growths off my chase car for this one
[21:59] <daveake> ofc that only reveals the rust, but at least I tried
[21:59] <Vaizki> so you're a rust fan too then?
[22:00] <Vaizki> ...
[22:02] <daveake> They posted this earlier https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13439114_10153721545072654_4248075387543682918_n.jpg?oh=4a965134aa91b6e406d401eba3dc01eb&oe=58027F3A
[22:02] Nick change: stilldavid_ -> stilldavid
[22:03] <daveake> but this is what's actually flying http://imgur.com/ojIh2FL
[22:05] <SM0ULC-Reb> :)
[22:05] <gonzo___m> would ssdv equate to stop frame?
[22:05] <Vaizki> daveake: aardman?
[22:05] <daveake> yes
[22:06] <fsphil> all controlled through putty?
[22:06] <daveake> hah!
[22:06] <Vaizki> groan...
[22:06] <gonzo___m> play DOH!
[22:14] <SM0ULC-Reb> is the "$$" included in the checksum-calcs?
[22:15] <gonzo___m> no
[22:15] <gonzo___m> I believe neither is the *
[22:16] <SM0ULC-Reb> ah
[22:16] <SM0ULC-Reb> going at it again..
[22:19] <daveake> correct - between (however many $s there are) and the *, not including either
[22:20] <SM0ULC-Reb> thanks
[22:29] <SM0ULC-Reb> i get "Invalid CRC16-CCITT checksum" if i enter it manually but no such error if pushed via api
[22:29] <SM0ULC-Reb> anyway i have to check crc... l8r
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[23:05] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 039 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[23:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BALLON-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALLON-11
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[00:00] --- Wed Jul 6 2016