highaltitude.log.20160628

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[03:25] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-12 after 039 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-12
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[04:26] <Flerb> Hi
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[09:17] <craag> For those of you joining us at EMFcamp, we have a channel at #habville (freenode) for discussion and logistics.
[09:21] <richardeoin> ee exciting
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[11:01] <SA6BSS-Mike> we are safe for another seven years :) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/helium-shortage-could-be-solved-by-new-life-saving-discovery-a7106906.html
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[11:17] <michal_f_off> thank God
[11:18] <fsphil> H2 ftw
[11:21] <AndyEsser> Woo Hoo H Two
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[11:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 033032608931_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=3032608931_chase
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[12:35] <AndyEsser> Anyone here used Tonna antennas?
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[12:38] <craag> AndyEsser: yes
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[12:42] <gonzo__> yep, have had dealings with them
[12:45] <Ian_> Top end and top dollar, with a well established presence in the industry
[12:46] <craag> My experience too
[12:46] <AndyEsser> Ok, so worth the money?
[12:46] <craag> Do proper replacement parts and stuff
[12:46] <craag> yes
[12:47] <gonzo__> some of the amateur stuff I've seen was pretty dire
[12:47] <gonzo__> spade termoinals for RF. No peoper baluns
[12:48] <craag> Yeah they do offer balun-less stuff - get the ones with baluns.
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[12:48] <gonzo__> as with a few of these manufacturers, the antennas are ok, but the feeds/driven elements are nasty
[12:48] <AndyEsser> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/220909_tonna_70cm_430-440mhz_9_el_yagi?query=tonna%2070cm
[12:48] <AndyEsser> this is what I Was looking at for a Yagi
[12:48] <AndyEsser> (obviously too big for handheld)
[12:48] <AndyEsser> might make my own handheld one
[12:49] <gonzo__> if you can find someone selling an 'arrow' antenna, ther are noce for portable
[12:50] <gonzo__> I have a moonraker cheepo ZL special
[12:51] <gonzo__> not too badly made for the price. The feed is a bit iffy, but works. Only for low power i'd say though
[12:51] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: make a show dyi yagi with "foldable" elements?
[12:51] <AndyEsser> show dyi?
[12:52] <edmoore> do yourself injuries
[12:54] Action: SM0ULC-Reb in stalled mode
[12:54] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: http://www.instructables.com/id/433-MHz-tape-measure-antenna-suits-UHF-transmitte/
[12:57] <gonzo__> no indication if that DE has a balun
[12:58] <gonzo__> some times they rely on taping the coax along the boom to choke out the current ij the outer
[12:58] <gonzo__> quite nasty
[12:58] <gonzo__> (that was refering to the tonna)
[13:01] <AndyEsser> ta
[13:02] <AndyEsser> I really need to find a semi-permanent mounting solution for home antennas, and get around to constructing a rotator as well :)
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> 1/2 scale eiffel tower replica
[13:06] <AndyEsser> lol
[13:06] <AndyEsser> in the current climate, that'd likely get my house burned down
[13:14] <gonzo__> if you can find a long pole that you can mount on the side of the house, like a TV antenna, but so that you vcan get access to it from ground level. You could rotatr
[13:15] <gonzo__> te it by hand. And the neigbours will nlt see it as anything different to what;'s on their houses
[13:16] <gonzo__> for hab rx, you would not have to adjust it much during a flight
[13:16] <AndyEsser> gonzo__: it's the height of the pole and mounting it that I'm concerned, I don't suspect much problem from neighbours
[13:16] <AndyEsser> most are students that are only around for 6-9 months of the year
[13:17] <AndyEsser> but I can't go drilling holes into the walls
[13:17] <gonzo__> pop a 70cms and 2mtr yagi on top (looking like a TV and hifi antenna) and a colinear above that, and you are good to go
[13:17] <gonzo__> could you get permission to have a TV anternna installed?
[13:17] <gonzo__> that would get you the brackets
[13:18] <gonzo__> depending what the roof material is and if you have loft access, that could be an option
[13:18] <AndyEsser> house has a TV antenna already, but the mounting pole is pathetic, wouldn't take much weight
[13:19] <AndyEsser> I might just email the landlord and see if he doesn't mind me mounting a pole to the side of the house, get a 21ft Scaffold pole or similar
[13:19] <AndyEsser> Really? no sibot correction?
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[13:19] <AndyEsser> o... SIBot isn't around :)
[13:19] <gonzo__> I had an ali scaff pole free standing in the garden for years
[13:20] <gonzo__> just a mounting frame concreted into the ground (whicy you can dig up if req)
[13:20] <AndyEsser> additionally I have a little circular bit of flowerbed in the middle of the path in the middle of the garden that I could dig up and then sink the pole into, then use guy lines running off it to secure it
[13:20] <AndyEsser> also keeps it nice and clear of the telephone lines running to neighbours houses
[13:20] <AndyEsser> Alternatively... I just wait until I buy a house and erect a mast that the NSA would be proud of :)
[13:22] <gonzo__> my mount was just a fer bits of scaff, mounted vertical, with a gap between about a scaff width
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[13:23] <gonzo__> a bit of studding as a pivot at the bottom, and sone straps welded in place to act as stops for the main pole
[13:23] <gonzo__> the whole thing could be walked up and down by hand
[13:23] <craag> bots are being flakey recently - sorry about that
[13:25] <AndyEsser> craag: no need to apologise
[13:25] <craag> 21ft
[13:25] <SIbot> In real units: 21 ft = 6.40 m
[13:25] <craag> there you go :)
[13:25] <AndyEsser> it's rather something more like 40ft
[13:25] <SIbot> In real units: 40 ft = 12 m
[13:25] <AndyEsser> but... that gives me about 30ft of above ground to play with
[13:25] <SIbot> In real units: 30 ft = 9.14 m
[13:25] <AndyEsser> which should be enough...
[13:29] <AndyEsser> or just stick to my plan of having an extendable boom on my new truck when I buy it with a yagi and X50 on it
[13:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP5RZP-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
[13:31] <gonzo__> ok, drawn it out, in case it's of interest to anyone. And it really works well.
[13:31] <gonzo__> www.g0nzo.co.uk/misc/scaff_mount.jpg
[13:32] <AndyEsser> +10 points for mspaint artwork :)
[13:32] <gonzo__> ity's all I have
[13:33] <gonzo__> lay two bits of steel scaff parallel, weld some straps to act as stops, drill afew holes and concrete in.
[13:34] <gonzo__> if you dig the hole a bit below the surface, you could even get away with justgrinding off the steel and put a few inch of dirt over it. Not even dig it up
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[13:34] <gonzo__> cheeky, but prob enough
[13:35] <gonzo__> you can put the pivot bolt in with the mast down, raise it by hand then bolt the blue strap in place.
[13:35] <gonzo__> waves about in the wind, but scaff is designed to flex
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[13:38] <AndyEsser> gonzo__: yea, I like the simplicity of getting it up/down
[13:38] <AndyEsser> not having to get a big ladder or climbing harness
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[13:40] <gonzo__> I have a 21ft (go ahead sibot....) ali scaff, with a rotator asedembly, 4mtr yagi, another 12ft of light duty pole, and a 12ft long colinear
[13:40] <SIbot> In real units: 21 ft = 6.40 m
[13:40] <gonzo__> it''s heavy, but can be done by hand.
[13:40] <gonzo__> and that was all just free standing
[13:41] <AndyEsser> well for something like a 21ft (err 6.40m) scaff pole in that configuration, I'd likely use something like steel cable and a winch as one the guy ropes, so it can be lowered in a controlled fashion
[13:41] <SIbot> In real units: 21 ft = 6.40 m
[13:42] <gonzo__> youjust have to make sure you have enough concrete and your welding is good (though i had the bolts going through both straps, so t didn't even need to be welded
[13:42] <gonzo__> just a ali scaff with a colinear on would be no prob by hand
[13:44] <mfa298> if the base is secured you should be able to lift a 6m mast with antennas on top fairly easily (I've done 10m of telescopic mast like that)
[13:45] <mfa298> although the telescopic has the advantage for bringing it down you just loosen off the sections and colapse a section at a time.
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[13:46] <fsphil> I have one of those telescopic poles, thinking of drilling a hole in each section for securing it a bit better
[13:47] <daveake> Yeah those plastic collars are pretty rubbish
[13:47] <gonzo__> steel or fibreglass?
[13:48] <daveake> I'm thinking of the £80 ali ones
[13:48] <mfa298> mine uses jubilee clips which do ok (ali mast)
[13:48] <fsphil> yeah aluminium
[13:48] <daveake> I added jubilee clips to mine where the plastic clips broke
[13:49] <gonzo__> I have a slot together ali short mast. Planning to mod it to add some pins, to allw it to be manyally rortated from the base
[13:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CHANGEME - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CHANGEME
[13:53] <daveake> :/
[13:53] <daveake> (not me this time)
[13:56] <AndyEsser> daveake: speaking of, how is Nailbrush?
[13:56] <AndyEsser> :)
[13:56] <daveake> Silent, in its box, waiting for the flight :)
[13:59] <AndyEsser> I really need to get around to launching :(
[14:05] <Ian_> You seem to be very busy with everything else Andy! I have a Watson W300 colinear on the top of 25ft of swaged poles. The bottom sits on the ground and has dug itself in an inch or two and it's secured to a vine eye that holds the washing line pulley with a spare bit of washing line at about 2m height. It heels over like a corvette in strong winds, but is free standing.
[14:05] <SIbot> In real units: 25 ft = 7.62 m
[14:06] <AndyEsser> Ian_: I'm trying to keep myself busy
[14:06] <AndyEsser> and keep learning
[14:06] <Ian_> I upgraded (hello sibot) from twine, after it broke, lifex at five years out.
[14:06] <fsphil> learning is good
[14:06] <AndyEsser> so bored of the day job stuff that this stuff keeps my mind active
[14:07] <Ian_> If you are able to somehow slide the poles up verticaly, then there is little weight involved and you add poles from below. Just don't let it get far from vertical or you will have a fight on your hands and likely lose . . . :)
[14:07] <AndyEsser> Ian_: Yea, don't like the idea of doing that without a proper winch/pulley system to raise/lower
[14:08] <Ian_> bored . . . I thought this was a new job just started/starting soon?
[14:08] <AndyEsser> I'll have a think about a longer term/semi permanent solution
[14:08] <AndyEsser> Ian_: start on Monday
[14:08] <AndyEsser> the job is still basically doing what I've been doing for the last few years, albeit with different tech
[14:08] <AndyEsser> but should give me the funds to do more fun stuff
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[14:09] <Ian_> It does mean that you are working on a lot of different fronts at the same time, a bit like plate spinning :)
[14:10] <AndyEsser> Ian_: it's the only awy I get stuff done - if I focus purely on one thing at a time then I'll get bored/burn out on that project
[14:11] <Ian_> My temporary solution has been in the air for over fifteen years now and is due for replacement any time soon, but probably (later).
[14:11] <AndyEsser> ha
[14:11] <AndyEsser> that reminds me of code from last place
[14:11] <AndyEsser> * TODO: Needs fixing, not for production environment
[14:11] <AndyEsser> checked when it was written... 2008
[14:12] <Ian_> Crisis mode is good for getting things done. . . . ha sounds very familiar.
[14:12] <edmoore> i have too many things atm
[14:12] <edmoore> at work
[14:12] <edmoore> too much context switching
[14:12] <AndyEsser> Indeed, I know it's not ideal
[14:13] <edmoore> irc should be left to die in my somme of a triage unit but here we are still
[14:13] <AndyEsser> I need to learn to be able to focus on a single thing at once
[14:13] <Ian_> And here I thought it was a case of lighting the blue touch paper and standing well back with the data recorder :)
[14:13] <edmoore> i'm actually babysitting the cnc mill atm
[14:13] <edmoore> incase it gets hit by a cosmic ray which happens every now and then
[14:14] <Ian_> Just as it gets near the end, the work piece moves slightly . . .
[14:14] <edmoore> god i hope not
[14:14] <Ian_> I bet you do.
[14:14] <edmoore> that's definitely an operator fault
[14:14] <Ian_> Tighten those clamps
[14:14] <edmoore> it's an easy workpiece to hold
[14:15] <edmoore> in a very good don't-make-em-like-that-anymore mill vice
[14:15] <edmoore> so i'm not worried about that
[14:15] <Ian_> Nightmare stuff though in a complex/expensive part
[14:15] <edmoore> just sometimes a control board shoots off in a random direction
[14:16] <Ian_> Finished . . . drives tool home . . . into the workpiece . . . duh!
[14:17] <adamgreig> :(
[14:18] <adamgreig> we're machining a fin can out of solid soon and it's a hellish thing to imagine
[14:18] <adamgreig> machining from solid is such a bad idea for so many things but it sounds so nice to imagine when you're wondering to
[14:18] <adamgreig> how to machine something*
[14:19] <Ian_> Even more disheartening if you have stumped up for the exotic material cost and spent a shed load of time on it.
[14:19] <Ian_> Not something that you can braise and rework easily
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[14:23] <edmoore> yeah mounting the fin can sounds like a challenge
[14:23] <edmoore> and supporting the fins
[14:23] <adamgreig> yea really
[14:23] <adamgreig> the dart has gotten longer too
[14:23] <adamgreig> it's more of a javelin now
[14:24] <edmoore> oh fun
[14:24] <adamgreig> fruitychutes do 'compact' parachutes
[14:24] <adamgreig> so we have ordered a 120" and a 60" and a 36" and a 24"
[14:24] <adamgreig> and paid an extra £120 because thanks brexit
[14:24] <Vaizki> loonyrockets with fruitychutes :O
[14:24] <adamgreig> the compact chutes are thinner canopy and rigging aiui
[14:25] <adamgreig> not as big as the 172" we had last time though
[14:25] <edmoore> is the dart dense?
[14:26] <adamgreig> that was a monster parachute https://www.dropbox.com/sc/ir00g7zqa3apo4x/AAAhMRRelxrO21Bg-Fwd6Sosa
[14:26] <adamgreig> yes
[14:26] <adamgreig> well it's quite dense I guess, idk
[14:26] <adamgreig> it's got a lot of steel
[14:26] <adamgreig> and a lot of solid
[14:27] <adamgreig> but by volume it is mostly parachute
[14:27] <adamgreig> and it's like 5' long now I think
[14:27] <edmoore> chute all the way down or anything different for supersonic?
[14:27] <adamgreig> dual deployment so drogue around apogee
[14:27] <adamgreig> main chute in deployment bag on lazy line
[14:27] <edmoore> does it stay subsonic with a drogue?
[14:27] <adamgreig> yea
[14:27] <edmoore> or like < M1.lowish
[14:27] <edmoore> cool
[14:30] <adamgreig> avionics getting a bit behind schedule, sigh
[14:30] <adamgreig> had a lot of issues with simulating the conformed arrays too until I swapped to "mobile phone antenna optimised mode"
[14:30] <adamgreig> doing betternow. hope to fab the first arrays this wekk.
[14:31] <adamgreig> brb
[14:34] <Van5> Hi Guys me and my mate are working on a Ballon Project we are following the tutorial on http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=627 and we can pick up the transmission on DL-fldigi but having issues decoding the trasmission, does anyone have any basic Tutorials for sending text via an Arduino connected to a Radiometrix NTX2
[14:35] <Van5> the receiver it an RTL dongle we are setting up all the rates as per the Tut.
[14:36] <Van5> any help would be greatly received...
[14:38] <Vaizki> if you can post screenshots of the SDR program and dl-fldigi, that's the fast lane to help
[14:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ISCAPI - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ISCAPI
[14:46] <Vaizki> well I wonder if they figured it out and ISCAPI is the result .. :)
[14:46] <daveake> Nah that's a PITS
[14:50] <Vaizki> next version you can put a cpu on the board itself, no need for a PI.. then you can call it ARM PITS..
[14:50] <Vaizki> *ba-dum-tshhh*
[14:51] <daveake> ho ho ho
[14:51] <daveake> We did consider that (but not for the name!)
[14:54] <edmoore> Van5: still there?
[14:54] <edmoore> see Vaizki's advice
[14:58] <fsphil> you gotta do it for the name
[14:58] <fsphil> though it wouldn't be a pi. so just armts
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[15:03] <Ian_> Of course a Hex version might be called 0XTER
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[15:28] <AndyEsser> https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasahqphoto/sets/72157670268203025/
[15:28] <AndyEsser> SLS Booster test fire photos
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[15:52] <Van5> my friend is going to join in a minute and upload.
[15:53] <Van5> ISCAPI isn't us...
[15:54] <edmoore> it's an italian vim user i suspect
[15:55] <AndyEsser> *chuckles to himself*
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[16:02] <notm0nty> hi, van5 posted re our tracking issues, i've got some screenshots here; https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5wrp702on4cxh62/AADEMuMIg_vJbm2QXFPqca-Ma?dl=0
[16:04] <edmoore> notm0nty: in fldigi
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[16:04] <edmoore> configure>modems>rtty
[16:04] <edmoore> make the carrier shift a bit smaller so the red bars align with the yellow
[16:05] <edmoore> see if that helps and report back
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[16:06] <notm0nty> edmoore: you genius! thank you!
[16:07] <edmoore> i take it that fixed it
[16:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Car_ONE_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Car_ONE_chase
[16:08] <notm0nty> edmoore: fixed it immediately, works fine now, thank you!
[16:09] <Van5> well done edmoore. just going to connect up the GPS module now and transmit results...
[16:10] <Vaizki> screenshots - they work
[16:12] <Van5> cheers...
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[16:14] <Vaizki> .. except if you're behind the great random firewall of china like me right now..
[16:14] <Vaizki> anyway, time to sleep, glad you got your troubles sorted in one go :)
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[16:22] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: if you can SSH you can access anything
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[16:50] <M0XIN> Hello everyone
[16:50] <M0XIN> Just seen the map for EMF this year. Any plans for where HABville will be located?
[16:51] Action: M0XIN randomly puts pins in the map
[16:51] <fsphil> all of it
[16:51] <fsphil> being renamed habcamp
[16:52] <mattbrejza> emf chat in #habville btw
[16:52] Action: AndyEsser has a sad
[16:53] <fsphil> sneak in. we don't tell russss
[16:53] <fsphil> won't*
[16:53] <AndyEsser> haha
[16:56] <M0XIN> mattbrejza: ta
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[17:45] <PE2BZ> flights
[17:45] <PE2BZ> !flights
[17:45] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03Bradgatepark 10(e508)
[18:08] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DC2EH-14 after 0317 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-14
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[20:09] Nick change: Wiktor -> Gryglu
[20:10] Nick change: Gryglu -> wiktor
[20:10] Nick change: wiktor -> gryglu
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[20:14] Nick change: gryglu -> Wiktor
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[20:42] <Ben________> http://stratosvision.com/docs/UK-ATS-AIRSPACE.pdf <-- The boxed areas on this map, do they imply that applying for a CAA Application to release a High Altitude balloon is going to be unsuccessful in these areas
[20:42] <Ben________> To be more specific, within the CLACTON CTA 2 A FL105-FL195 area.
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[21:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> Very likely a lot of constraints at the minimum, like time of launch and directions etc.
[21:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> There is also a 3D map for GE here http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/Google_Earth_Tools/index.php?ind=0
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[21:09] <Ben________> Thankyou
[21:18] <Laurenceb__> http://i.imgur.com/F56l3kv.jpg
[21:18] <Laurenceb__> possible Falcon heavy
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[21:27] <SpeedEvil> IInteresting
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[21:48] <Laurenceb__> http://i.imgur.com/ZJfbZzz.jpg
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[22:43] <michal_f> this is odd... I'm creating an antenna for my payload. this should be around 16cm long for 434MHz.
[22:43] <michal_f> I started with longer wire with intent to cut while observing spectrumSpy
[22:44] <michal_f> what is weird that the antenna seems to match exactly 434mhz, without any cutting. and its ~23cm in length
[22:44] <michal_f> how come ?
[22:44] <michal_f> see for yourself https://drive.google.com/embeddedfolderview?id=0B_8ipK0TpiuhMTJpcE45R2xGcmc#grid
[22:57] <michal_f> btw, airspy is so much faster than rtl panorama...
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[23:18] <adamgreig> michal_f: what are you measuring with the airspy/rtl there?
[23:26] <michal_f> reflected power
[23:26] <michal_f> I've got a noise gen and coupler there
[23:28] <adamgreig> nice
[23:29] <adamgreig> interesting that the rtlsdr has a much more clearly defined peak
[23:30] <adamgreig> is the coupler a circulator or a directional coupler or..?
[23:30] <michal_f> maybe because of sacn range
[23:30] <michal_f> direction coupler
[23:31] <michal_f> directional*
[23:32] <prog> use sdr# for averaging
[23:32] <michal_f> prog, how ?
[23:32] <michal_f> adamgreig, I added another one with spectrumSpy and broader range
[23:33] <michal_f> peak is more pronounced
[23:33] <adamgreig> that is pretty weird :P
[23:33] <prog> also, change the full scale
[23:33] <michal_f> anyway, what worries me is why such a long wire matches 434 mhz
[23:34] <adamgreig> is anything on your setup biased towards 434MHz? like, is that the DC frequency of anything, or any filters, or..?
[23:34] <prog> you have 20dB range displayed in rtl and 70dB in spec spy
[23:35] <michal_f> adamgreig, nothing I'm aware of
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[23:43] <adamgreig> weird
[23:46] <adamgreig> is it resonant at the frequency you'd expect for 23cm? (like 325MHz)
[23:46] <michal_f> it's not.
[23:47] <michal_f> I'm checking connection again, I suspact poor soldering on one SMA
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[23:50] <michal_f> yeah... it's one of SMAs having bad connection
[23:51] <michal_f> checking just the whip it resonates at 267MHz (~27cm)
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[00:00] --- Wed Jun 29 2016