highaltitude.log.20160617

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[05:44] <PE2BZ> !flights
[05:44] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03YAM-1 434.592 MHz RTTY 50/450 7N1 10(16ee), 03BARC 10(43d6), 03UBSEDS15 434.600 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(d812)
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[09:03] <boutatrain> Hi can anyone authorise a flight doc for me?
[09:03] <boutatrain> doc id 4da6971af5c5b0db1bdce521643a519d
[09:03] <boutatrain> 4da6971af5c5b0db1bdce521643a519d
[09:04] <Vaizki> join #habhub please...
[09:04] <edmoore> boutatrain: it's better to ask the same thing on #habhub
[09:04] <edmoore> you're much more likely to catch the attention of someone who will approve
[09:05] <boutatrain> thanks edmoore, I'll try there!
[09:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BARC - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BARC
[09:07] Nick change: LazyL-M0LEP -> LazyLeopard
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[09:23] <gonzo_> Posted on the forum but:
[09:23] <gonzo_> http://www.bdballoonchallenge.org
[09:23] <gonzo_> please circulate to schools
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[09:30] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YAM-1 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YAM-1
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[09:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HG8PSL-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HG8PSL-11
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[09:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> !dial barc
[09:58] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Latest dials for 03BARC 10(43d6): none
[09:59] <g8fjg> barc 434.650 300/720 ish
[09:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah another one who cant get the freq right!
[10:00] <g8fjg> close got a 5 in the right place
[10:01] <fsphil> lol
[10:04] <g8fjg> dont think I'll get a green on this freq, pulse qrm
[10:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> clean freq. until he rises above the Downs for me, then the QRM will appear!
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[10:05] <g8fjg> the down side of a sensitive system...you can hear the World
[10:06] <Jerry_> !dial barc
[10:06] <SpacenearUS> 03Jerry_: Latest dials for 03BARC 10(43d6): 03434.64966 MHz
[10:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> yer!
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[10:13] <Jerry_> !dial barc
[10:13] <SpacenearUS> 03Jerry_: Latest dials for 03BARC 10(43d6): 03434.64966 MHz
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[10:16] <Jerry_> Hi everyone, is BARC on 434.250 as listed on has tracker or 434.64966 i get from ! dial?
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[10:16] <fsphil> I would trust dial more
[10:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> most likely is 434.650ish
[10:17] <Jerry_> thanks
[10:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> he hasn't ever got round to adjustiung the documents
[10:21] <samme> hey there. I have been trying to test my circuitry based on (https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2?rev=1399496254)
[10:21] <samme> I am getting sequence of beeps.
[10:21] <samme> but nothing on dlfdigi
[10:21] <samme> http://i.imgur.com/6dgxKwq.png http://i.imgur.com/n7xxEbu.png
[10:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> screen grab of SDR# and dl-fldigi
[10:22] <AndyEsser> samme: reduce your bandwidth in SDR# to about 4k
[10:22] <AndyEsser> starting just before the peak
[10:22] <AndyEsser> and ensure that dl-fldigi audio input is the output from VB-Cable or whatever it is you're using
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[10:23] <Vaizki> yes fl-digi does not process the whole audio bandwidth, so go for 4000 in the SDR# bandwidth setting as AndyEsser said
[10:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> also set the centre freq. of dl-fldigi to 1500 instead of 2776
[10:24] <AndyEsser> samme: out of curiosity - what did you change from last night?
[10:24] <AndyEsser> (hardware/programming wise)
[10:24] <samme> I am using voltage divider technique instead of PWM
[10:24] <Vaizki> I think he went from pwm to resistors
[10:24] <AndyEsser> Ah ok
[10:24] <AndyEsser> much saner
[10:24] <AndyEsser> :)
[10:25] <Vaizki> well that signal looks quite clean
[10:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> can't see what deviation is looks on the high side still, maybe zoom in a bit
[10:25] <Vaizki> now you just need to adjust the bandwidth down (maybe to 3000 actually as your dl-fldigi is only showing 3000)
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[10:26] <Vaizki> also I think in SDR# you might have "Filter Audio" set to ON.. turn it off
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[10:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Actually if you have an external aerial be worth listening on 434.650 to BARC that is flying currently
[10:27] <samme> but the water falls are quite far from each other
[10:27] <Vaizki> Filter Audio is under the "Audio" section
[10:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> then you will know what a working signal looks and sounds like
[10:27] <samme> should I play with the resistor?
[10:28] <samme> just did
[10:28] <AndyEsser> samme: the waterfall in dl-fldigi is only showing the first 3kHz of the section you've tuned to in SDR#
[10:28] <AndyEsser> you have 16kHz set in SDR#
[10:28] <Vaizki> samme, lower bandwidth to 3000 first and retune so your signal is inside the filter
[10:28] <AndyEsser> and 3kHz in dl-fldigi
[10:28] <AndyEsser> which is just background noise - which is why you don't see anything
[10:28] <AndyEsser> hence, reduce the bandwidth to 3-4kHz, and move the tuning so it's just to the left of the peaks
[10:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> in SDR# there isn't any point in having a bandwidth greater than what your listening too in dl-fldigi so set bandwidth to 3000Hz
[10:29] <Vaizki> and dl-fldigi only goes to 4kHz I think .. it's in the settings somewhere
[10:29] <samme> http://i.imgur.com/2u0iOvh.png
[10:29] <Vaizki> mmm nice
[10:29] <AndyEsser> much nicer
[10:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> thats it
[10:29] <AndyEsser> Now you need to adjust your RTTY modem settings for correct Baud, Shift and start/stop bits
[10:29] <samme> but the shift? :/
[10:29] <AndyEsser> the shift is about 1kHz
[10:29] <Vaizki> well your shift is too wide I guess.. you need to adjust the resistors
[10:30] <AndyEsser> higher than typical, but not terrible
[10:30] <AndyEsser> you can adjust that with the resistor values
[10:30] <AndyEsser> personally I'd say get decoding at that shift, and then reduce it later
[10:31] <samme> AndyEsser : decoding at the shift? how?
[10:31] <AndyEsser> go to Configure -> Modems -> RTTY in dl-fldigi
[10:31] <AndyEsser> set the Carrier Shift to custom
[10:31] <AndyEsser> and change the number underneath to about 1000
[10:32] <Vaizki> more like 1100
[10:32] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: was making easy numbers, since he has a rather large receive filter set up - thought it'd likely be ok
[10:32] <AndyEsser> :)
[10:32] <edmoore> you're right it will be ok
[10:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> adjust it so that the two lines in the display cover the lines of audio coming in
[10:32] <Vaizki> yea it's not so picky..
[10:33] <Vaizki> I have been through the dl-fldigi source..
[10:34] <AndyEsser> I should do that sometime
[10:34] <edmoore> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yK6DHJ11ik4/VEr8XZMjGYI/AAAAAAAAG_E/gV25QrrUCFY/s1600/believe.gif
[10:34] <AndyEsser> ha
[10:34] <samme> http://i.imgur.com/Zepez64.png
[10:34] <Vaizki> it is not for the faint of heart
[10:35] <samme> not able to exceed more than 1000
[10:35] <AndyEsser> samme: did you copy the code from the above wiki page?
[10:35] <edmoore> that's fine
[10:35] <edmoore> is it decoding?
[10:35] <AndyEsser> if so, then you need to set it up for 50 Baud
[10:35] <AndyEsser> 1 start, 2 stop and no parity
[10:35] <AndyEsser> 8 bits per character
[10:35] <Vaizki> I think that's an on-off test signal and not real RTTY
[10:36] <samme> 1 start?
[10:36] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: yea, I guessed, but might as well set it now whilst he has the screen open
[10:36] <AndyEsser> samme: in the same screen as you set the shift
[10:36] <daveake> start bits not a setting
[10:36] <AndyEsser> Configure > Modems > RTTY
[10:36] <AndyEsser> o derp
[10:36] <daveake> :)
[10:36] <Vaizki> yea start bits is always 1
[10:36] <AndyEsser> I have it right here in front of me....
[10:36] Action: AndyEsser needs more coffee
[10:37] <samme> http://i.imgur.com/zLAuKId.png
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[10:37] <x-f> SA6BSS-Mike, YAM-1 has been launched from Poland on the northern coast, very slow ascent, above your horizon in an hour perhaps
[10:37] <Vaizki> btw, shortcut to rtty settings is to right click RTTY on the bottom left of dl-fldigi screen :)
[10:37] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: that never seems to work for me
[10:38] <AndyEsser> samme: apologies - change it to 7 (ascii) for the bits per character
[10:38] <AndyEsser> (is reading the source as he goes)
[10:39] <Vaizki> don't read the dl-fldigi source.. you won't emerge until july..
[10:39] <Vaizki> and I'm not talking about gentoo here
[10:39] <samme> http://i.imgur.com/hbARC2U.png
[10:39] <AndyEsser> you've changed the receive filter bandwidth
[10:39] <AndyEsser> and the carrier shift
[10:39] <AndyEsser> (or rather, they seem to have been reset)
[10:40] <samme> 68 :/
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[10:41] <Vaizki> samme, are you sending just 101010101010...
[10:41] <samme> yea
[10:41] <samme> the first part, high and low
[10:42] <AndyEsser> samme: http://imgur.com/SLYSU15
[10:42] <AndyEsser> set it up like that - then we'll get you sending some actual data
[10:43] <samme> http://i.imgur.com/3mQlxJf.png
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[10:44] <samme> now I will try to transmit data
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[10:49] <AndyEsser> Good luck
[10:49] <AndyEsser> :)
[10:49] <edmoore> [drumroll]
[10:50] <Vaizki> [sharp intake of breath]
[10:50] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: might want to exhale
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[10:52] <Vaizki> I was just a kid and I didn't inhale
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[10:53] <edmoore> my local pub is the very pub in which bill clinton didn't inhale
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[10:56] <edmoore> samme: news?
[10:58] <nick__> edmoore: you should find a better local.
[10:58] <gonzo_> they have a blue plaque on the wall?
[10:58] <AndyEsser> edmoore: this the local around the corner from your house?
[10:58] <edmoore> nick__: it's local relative to anyone else here
[10:59] <edmoore> my actual localest local is the punter
[10:59] <samme> edmoore: AndyEsser: http://i.imgur.com/XOZmCrd.png
[10:59] <edmoore> turf tav is more like a 10 min walk
[10:59] <AndyEsser> I _think_
[10:59] <samme> WORKS ! :D
[10:59] <AndyEsser> that's working
[10:59] <AndyEsser> :P
[10:59] <edmoore> congrats samme!
[10:59] <edmoore> you may now pour yourself a drink
[10:59] <samme> but what is the *CF08?
[10:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Checksum
[10:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> CRC
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[11:00] <nick__> edmoore: there must be significantly better pubs nearer you though.
[11:00] <edmoore> samme: do you know what a checksum is?
[11:00] <edmoore> nick__: than the punter?
[11:00] <samme> uhhhh, no :/
[11:00] <edmoore> i like the punter
[11:00] <edmoore> but yes there are lots
[11:00] <AndyEsser> I remember some... interesting artwork in the gents loo at the pub we went to
[11:00] <samme> this is all new to me -_-", sorry :/
[11:00] <nick__> Better than the Turf.
[11:01] <edmoore> samme: a checkum is the answer that comes out of a special equation, and the input into that equation is some data you want to communicate
[11:01] <edmoore> so
[11:01] <edmoore> let's say i shout at yoy 'samme come here i have a drink for you!'
[11:01] <edmoore> but you hear 'samme come here i have a duck for you!'
[11:01] <edmoore> because you misheard who there was noise from a nearby bus or mower or something
[11:01] <Vaizki> duck is delicious
[11:02] <edmoore> how do you know that what you heard is actually not what i sent? you don't, and that's a problem in communications systems
[11:03] <edmoore> so what we also do it put the thing we want to send (come here i have a drink for you) through a special equation, in this case 'cyclic redundancy check' (or CRC), that produces a short number (*CF08) that is the 'result' of putting that input message into the CRC
[11:03] <FuzzyLemon> https://www.flickr.com/photos/133129348@N06/27625148702/in/dateposted-public/ the alpaca from the field BERKOHAB landed in
[11:03] <edmoore> if we put a different input message in, we get a different checksum out
[11:04] <nick__> This is equivalent to making some hand gestures while you shout at someone.
[11:04] <nick__> You can check the the gesture corresponds to the message you think you heard.
[11:04] <edmoore> so if i say to you 'samme come here i have a drink for you *CF67', and you know that *CF67 is a checksum, then you can put the message you heard ('samme come here i have a duck for you') through the CRC equation and see that actually that produces a different checkum
[11:05] <Vaizki> nick__, italian checksum? :)
[11:05] <edmoore> and so the message you got from me is probably different to the one i sent
[11:05] <edmoore> do you see?
[11:05] <edmoore> so if you put the message you receive through the checksum equation, and it's the same as the checksum i put on the end of my message, you know you've received it perfectly
[11:06] <edmoore> this is really useful in balloons because interference over the airwaves causes things like gps coordinates to be misheard
[11:07] <edmoore> and so on the tracker map in the days before we added checksums (sort of 2009) you would get really messy noisy tracking lines as the balloon jumped about the map
[11:07] <Vaizki> I had an idea of modifying dl-fldigi to decode RTTY bits into floats (probability of 1 vs 0) instead.. and doing bit flipping on the iffy bits to try and match a checksum.. :)
[11:07] <edmoore> because of badly received packets
[11:07] <samme> so checksum assures that the data obtained is validated? :/
[11:08] <Vaizki> yes
[11:08] <daveake> no
[11:08] <daveake> nearly assures
[11:08] <Vaizki> well assures that it has not changed in transit
[11:08] <Vaizki> to a very high degree :)
[11:08] <daveake> There's a small probability that it still matches
[11:08] <mfa298> it provides a level of confidence that what you heard is correct (and different checksums will give different levels of confidence)
[11:08] <AndyEsser> there is an extremly small possibility that both the sentence and the checksum were interefered in just the right way for the checksum received to match the interefered sentence
[11:09] <edmoore> but it's so unlikely that we can safely ignore it in this application
[11:09] <mfa298> s/different checksums/different checksum algorithms/
[11:09] <daveake> People used to use xor8 checksums, so the possibility wasn't that low then
[11:09] <Vaizki> well a CRC-16 + the fact that fields have to have certain values and order etc to match the parser are a pretty certain guarantee
[11:09] <Vaizki> if it was pure binary mumbo jumbo the chance of crc16 collisions would be higher
[11:10] <edmoore> xor8 is a different kind of equation for calculating a checksum. It's easy to understand but not nearly as good for guaranteeing that two slightly different messages won't produce the same checksum
[11:11] <edmoore> what you obviously want to avoid is an algorithm where a small change might produce the same checksum. e.g. 'this is a message' and 'this is a me3sage'
[11:11] <samme> so your saying that if I was to measure temperature, for each temperature reading, I would be receving a different checksum?
[11:11] <edmoore> yes
[11:11] <edmoore> the checksum equation is given the entire string you want to send from the balloon
[11:11] <edmoore> $callsign, time, lat, lon, alt, etc etc
[11:11] <edmoore> and then calculates the checksum for that entire message
[11:11] <Vaizki> if the message is 1:1 for every bit, the checksum will be the same.. otherwise it will change
[11:12] <edmoore> it's different every message because the message changes each time
[11:12] <Vaizki> especially since a sequence number and timestamp are recommended to be in the message.
[11:13] <samme> 'this is a message' and 'this is a me3sage' have the same checksum? could you explain that or was that just an example that two different sentence can have same checksum
[11:13] <AndyEsser> no, they'll have a different checksum
[11:13] <Vaizki> no they will not have the same checksum
[11:13] <edmoore> no they *shouldn't* have the same checksum
[11:13] <edmoore> but a 'bad' checksum algorithm like the xor8 dave mentioned is more likely to give the same checksum then a 'good' algorithm like crc16
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[11:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> Change your test message that your sending and you will see the CRC alter
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[11:14] <samme> how to avoid bad checksum with CRC16? :)
[11:15] <AndyEsser> the chance of a collision with something like CRC16 is so small, it's not even worth thinking about
[11:15] <Vaizki> umm don't worry
[11:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> change to crc32 double the number of permutations
[11:15] <AndyEsser> we just included it because we like to be accurate
[11:15] <DutchMillbt> Hi what's BARC's freq. at the moment?
[11:15] <edmoore> samme: crc16 is good enough
[11:15] <samme> phew! :D
[11:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> !dial barc
[11:15] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Latest dials for 03BARC 10(43d6): 03434.64791 MHz, 434.649101 MHz, 434.6494 MHz
[11:15] <AndyEsser> !dial bar
[11:15] <SpacenearUS> 03AndyEsser: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[11:15] <edmoore> i was just giving historical perspective
[11:15] <edmoore> first we used no checksum, that caused problems
[11:15] <edmoore> then xor8 because it was better than nothing and easy to code
[11:16] <edmoore> but crc16 is much much better
[11:16] <edmoore> so we've used that ever since and everyone is happy
[11:16] <samme> will try to transmit temperature reading, Thanks all :D
[11:18] <AndyEsser> Glad you're making progress :)
[11:18] <AndyEsser> launch next month? :)
[11:19] <mfa298> I seem to recall we had one bad sentence pass the CRC16 check, which out of the many sentences (probably hundres of thousands at least) received over the years is a pretty decent stat
[11:19] <samme> preferably August, am I progressing slow? :/
[11:19] <PA0RPA> Despite the hight the signal here in Holland is barely detectable. Next time use of a better antenna perhaps ?
[11:20] <AndyEsser> samme: not at all
[11:20] <AndyEsser> I joined in December-ish time with the goal of a May launch...
[11:20] <AndyEsser> it's better to take your time and be thorough, than fail to launch or lose your payload
[11:20] <AndyEsser> (that's my excuse, I'm sticking to it)
[11:21] <samme> may? :/ so you have done your launch already?
[11:21] <AndyEsser> nope
[11:21] <AndyEsser> I haven't even gotten my Tracker PCB made yet
[11:22] <samme> ohhh okay :D goodluck
[11:22] <SA6BSS-Mike> x-f: tnx, luckely my airspy is connectet to my yagi pointing exactly in that direction as I?m not home, will be later tonight
[11:23] <gonzo_> I have some quite compact bit bashing code for crc16, if you are not using the libsa
[11:23] <gonzo_> libs
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[11:25] <gonzo_> to keep it simple, I just dead bug build using DIL and through hole components. my tracker is so simple it was the best way
[11:27] <samme> AndyEsser: edmoore: should I work on data temperature sensor transmit using RTTY or understand DominoEX? any suggestion anyone?
[11:27] <mfa298> It's probably easier to stick with RTTY for now, it's what the majority of flights use
[11:28] <AndyEsser> samme: get a 'properly' formatted string sent first
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[11:28] <AndyEsser> $$PAYLAOD_NAME, PACKET_ID, TIME, TEMP, CHECKUM
[11:28] <AndyEsser> and go from there
[11:29] <samme> okay :D
[11:30] <mfa298> DominoEX on the AVR will require the PWM method to work and I think takes some tuning to get the shifts right (tones and timings have to be very accurate - 15.625Hz tone spacing for DominoEX16)
[11:32] <mfa298> you'll also need the ntx2b for dominoEX (I think you only had the ntx2)
[11:32] <samme> mfa298: I have been working with PWM and had difficulty, so been working with voltage divider technique and yes I have ntx2
[11:32] <samme> thanks for the advice :)
[11:34] <mfa298> I'd seen the troubles you were having last night, but you already had plenty of good advice to I mostly stayed quiet.
[11:34] <gonzo_> I assume the ntx2b is req, for the freq stability?
[11:35] <mfa298> yes
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[11:41] <PA0RPA> Advice from Holland for the BARC crew : use the next time the help of a skilled radioamateur to design the antenna and probably your power output was only 10 mW I guess...Good luck with a next launch !
[11:46] <edmoore> PA0RPA: all uk flights are 10mW
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[11:51] Nick change: ms7821_ -> ms7821
[12:00] <PA0RPA> If you are not allowed to use more power on the ISM band you have to use a very good antenna. Next time better we hope....Good luck !
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[12:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> Could be interesting landing location given proximity to Manchester!
[12:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> take that back its heading back south again!
[12:11] <daveake> Hopefully it will land near a skilled radioamateur who can give advice on desiging a 1/4 wave antenna :/
[12:12] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Sure would help!
[12:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03QM-SkyPi-2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=QM-SkyPi-2
[12:12] <daveake> Is it a poor signal or was that just random advice earlier?
[12:13] <AndyEsser> daveake: I think he was struggling to hear it in the Netherlands and was giving "advice"
[12:13] <AndyEsser> s/Netherlands/Holland
[12:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03QM-SkyPi-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=QM-SkyPi-1
[12:15] <daveake> Maybe he's grumpy as he can't watch his home team at Euro 2016
[12:15] <daveake> Anyway seemed odd
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[12:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> It did have a very directional aerial on it.
[12:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> very deep nulls even when at mex. height as it slowly rotated.
[12:34] <daveake> Maybe something in the way
[12:37] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> plus it doesn't help running at 300baud, a slower baud rate would be more tolerant of noise -but might have always lost something in the spinning!
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[12:57] Nick change: _Matthias -> Matthias
[12:58] <Laurenceb__> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5_hvVbxAAo&feature=youtu.be
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[13:05] <mattbrejza> is this the one that caught fire this week?
[13:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> RUD it seems
[13:10] <mattbrejza> it hovers for too long
[13:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> one of the three engines was under performing
[13:10] <mattbrejza> almost as if it things the barge is 10m? higher than it is
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[13:10] <mattbrejza> *thinks
[13:11] <daveake> Yeah that's what I thought. Compared to previous landings it was doing a lot of correction initially, then kinda stopped
[13:11] <AndyEsser> Someone's been watching Die Hard 2
[13:11] <mattbrejza> is that the only video?
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[13:12] <daveake> I'm looking forward to seeing a similar video from whoever wins Ed's challenge :)
[13:12] <AndyEsser> daveake: I want to take on the challenge... and was going to basically make the model be a miniature Falcon 9 :)
[13:12] <daveake> I don't think he specified having to land in one piece
[13:12] <AndyEsser> daveake: as long as all parts are within the 200m that should count, right?
[13:12] <daveake> Or not burning
[13:12] <daveake> I think so :)
[13:17] <AndyEsser> I think SpaceX should name their rockets like they do their barges
[13:17] <AndyEsser> we'd feel much more emotional attachment to them then
[13:17] <AndyEsser> also...
[13:17] <AndyEsser> RIP Burny McBurnface
[13:17] <AndyEsser> RIP = Rocket In Pieces
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[13:24] <AndyEsser> https://twitter.com/stratoballoon/status/743796381668745216/photo/1
[13:24] <AndyEsser> just a small balloon
[13:32] <edmoore> i'd like a hangar like that
[13:33] <AndyEsser> edmoore: you have enough space
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> hah
[13:33] <edmoore> but you pay rent on covered space
[13:34] <AndyEsser> put a tarp over the open roof when filling :P
[13:34] <edmoore> that'd do it
[13:45] <michal_f_wrk> meh... my hwoyee1200 wen't higher ;]
[13:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Did you Mars plane work as well ? ;-)
[14:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC1DFW - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC1DFW
[14:20] Nick change: uwe__ -> uwe_
[14:21] <AndyEsser> http://monster6502.com/
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[14:33] <Laurenceb> what is this ed challenge?
[14:34] <mfa298> wow, thats impressive.
[14:34] <mfa298> Laurenceb: on the mailing list, it's the challenge to land a payload within a nominated area
[14:34] <Laurenceb> ok
[14:34] <mfa298> (nominated 24 hours in advance from memory)
[14:34] <AndyEsser> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5013762
[14:34] <AndyEsser> 12
[14:35] <Laurenceb> yay firefox just ate my ram
[14:35] <AndyEsser> Nom
[14:35] <Laurenceb> X crashed
[14:35] <Laurenceb> down to terminal
[14:35] <gonzo_> hmmm, I wonder how that could be mis-interpreted (landing on target)
[14:37] <craag> time to dust off your rogallo Laurenceb ?
[14:37] <daveake> :)
[14:37] <Laurenceb> craag: yes
[14:37] <daveake> I think that fails "The parachute must be completely lax in the absence of dynamic pressure" tho
[14:38] <daveake> Suppose you could add a 1" parachute :)
[14:38] <Laurenceb> oh
[14:38] <AndyEsser> if SpaceX can, mostly, land a rocket on a barge, this should be easy
[14:38] <AndyEsser> :)
[14:39] <Laurenceb> I prefer 100km as a challenge
[14:39] <Laurenceb> precision landing with a chute is very very hard
[14:40] <daveake> They probably win on size of budget, number of clever people, and free tiime of said people
[14:40] <Laurenceb> there is usually some horrible turbulence at some point during decent
[14:40] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb: why... why not both? :)
[14:40] <AndyEsser> what goes up, must come down
[14:41] <Laurenceb> because that would be impossible^2
[14:41] <Laurenceb> nice now all my windows have lost style
[14:41] <Laurenceb> linux funtimes
[14:41] <Laurenceb> linux and firefox arent buddies
[14:42] <AndyEsser> linux + lynx FTW
[14:42] <edmoore> it doesn't have to be that precise
[14:42] <edmoore> the circle is almost 400m in diameter
[14:42] <edmoore> er, it is 400m in diameter
[14:43] <AndyEsser> edmoore: if the payload splits into multiple pieces on impact, but all pieces stay within the 200m of the nominated point... does that count?
[14:43] <Laurenceb> that sounds doable with landing predictor
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[14:44] <Laurenceb> oh ok rule 3 :P
[14:44] <edmoore> AndyEsser: sure
[14:44] <AndyEsser> daveake: we have an official ruling :)
[14:45] <Laurenceb> doesnt sounds very doable to me
[14:45] <AndyEsser> That sounds like quitters talk!
[14:45] <AndyEsser> (or possibly just someone far more informed and smarter than me)
[14:45] <Laurenceb> as you scale down turbulence becomes more of an issue
[14:45] <edmoore> rules 6 and 7 are to stop lawn darts
[14:45] <Laurenceb> small parafoils are highly likely to get tangled at some point]
[14:46] Action: Laurenceb wonders about a propane powered hot air ballute
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[14:46] <AndyEsser> #8 makes it all far too academic for my liking
[14:46] <Laurenceb> fired up to float at some altitudes to make use of the wind
[14:46] <Laurenceb> more importantly
[14:47] <daveake> If you look at the commercial "send supplies to battlefield" parafoil systems, they pretty much all specify 100 metre radius, from a plane drop ofc
[14:47] Action: Laurenceb wonders why his linux machine is still horrible broken
[14:47] <edmoore> AndyEsser: but 8 is the point
[14:47] <AndyEsser> I'm aware of this
[14:47] <edmoore> of the whole exercise
[14:48] <AndyEsser> just a powerpoint presentation which has photos of my whiteboard?
[14:48] <AndyEsser> :)
[14:48] <Laurenceb> well talking of quitters
[14:48] <Laurenceb> I quite trying to make linux behave, bbl
[14:48] <AndyEsser> Nah, I need to get into the habit and practice of writing papers/reports anyway
[14:48] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb: sudo reboot now
[14:50] <edmoore> a blog post would be fine
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[14:51] <AndyEsser> that's another thing on the ever growing list of things I need to do more of :(
[14:51] <AndyEsser> http://whiletruedowork.blogspot.co.uk/
[14:51] <AndyEsser> it's been a while
[14:51] <mfa298> Laurenceb: use H2 as the lifting gas then keep a parially inflated balloon and you've got a flamable gas source that could provide it's own lift
[14:58] <edmoore> you might be able to loft a liquid hydrogen dewar actually
[14:58] <edmoore> and have a little evaporator and reg to keep some required pressure in an inflatable thing
[14:58] <edmoore> though i suppose evaporators would be so efficient at high altitudes
[14:59] <edmoore> wouldn't*
[14:59] <Laurenceb> hehe
[14:59] <Laurenceb> well my mini rogallo got all sorts of bad treatment during decent, even tho it was calmish weather wise
[15:00] <Laurenceb> there were several bands of nasty turbulence and it was upside down on several occasions
[15:00] <Laurenceb> a parafoil with ~2m or smaller dimensions would have been hopelessly tangled
[15:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N8ERF-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N8ERF-11
[15:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC1GFW - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC1GFW
[15:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W8MHS-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W8MHS-11
[15:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ARY2 after 0314 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ARY2
[15:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD0NMG-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0NMG-11
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[15:28] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
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[15:40] <AndyEsser> "Your NatWest Business Current Account has been approved and will be available to you within the next working day"
[15:40] <AndyEsser> about bloody time NatWest....
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[15:43] <DL1SGP> "Good" Evening all
[15:53] <edmoore> DL1SGP: you sound like you need a drink
[15:56] <AndyEsser> speaking of which, you just reminded me I have beer in my fridge at home :)
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[17:03] <SA6BSS-Mike> x-f: could not get away from work to radmin in to track yam but tnx for pinging me!
[17:11] <Laurenceb> https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/4ogi59/evidence_that_spacex_is_actively_filtering_the/
[17:11] <Laurenceb> *x-files music*
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[17:12] <russss> lol
[17:13] <SA6BSS-Mike> reminds me of the beginning of a clive cusler book
[17:15] <Laurenceb> reddit seem kind of slow, this was obvious from the first landing attempt video
[17:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N0NQN-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N0NQN-11
[17:15] <russss> actually bencredible (who runs the SpaceX live streams) outright denies it in the comments
[17:16] <Laurenceb> well obviously :D
[17:16] <russss> heh
[17:16] <Laurenceb> anyway who cares :P
[17:16] <russss> I do not care
[17:17] <russss> in other news Blue Origin are going to be livestreaming their launch on Sunday
[17:17] <russss> for the first time I think?
[17:17] <SA6BSS-Mike> jepp, beleve it vas the book Black Wind
[17:17] <AndyEsser> but... why does it matter? SpaceX have zero obligation to provide us with anything
[17:18] <adamgreig> they claim it is live and unfiltered, so it would be a bit bad faith to then have it delayed and filtered
[17:18] <adamgreig> obviously no one is owed anything but that doesn't mean people won't be upset at being lied to
[17:18] <russss> I suspect nerds are reading too much into it
[17:19] <russss> it also amuses me that bencredible can't go into technical details about the video streaming because of ITAR
[17:19] <russss> (allegedly)
[17:19] <adamgreig> lol
[17:19] <adamgreig> itar is crazy
[17:19] <AndyEsser> is that the thing that means I can't have putty on a usb key when I enter/leave the US?
[17:20] <AndyEsser> (supposedly)
[17:20] <russss> no, encryption is not munitions any more. That used to be the case until c. 2001
[17:20] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[17:20] <AndyEsser> ta
[17:20] <AndyEsser> I didn't think it was still true, but had never put any time into confirming etc
[17:20] <russss> it certainly was the case though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States
[17:22] <AndyEsser> ta
[17:22] <russss> you ended up with this ridiculous "export-grade crypto" nonsense in SSL (56-bit DES!) which would have been trivial for the NSA to break even in the 90s
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[17:25] <russss> the thing that really broke that whole thing was that some court I think ruled that it did not apply to books as they were protected by the 1st amendment, so at least one version of PGP was released in book form.
[17:25] <AndyEsser> ha
[17:25] <russss> https://www.amazon.com/PGP-Internals-Philip-R-Zimmermann/dp/0262240394
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[17:48] Nick change: nigelvh -> xXxNiGeLvHxXx
[17:49] Nick change: xXxNiGeLvHxXx -> nigelvh
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[18:32] <SA6BSS-Mike> interesting https://balloonnews.wordpress.com/page/2/
[18:33] <SA6BSS-Mike> https://balloonnews.wordpress.com/2016/03/14/what-damage-could-my-payload-do-to-an-airliner/
[18:52] <x-f> SA6BSS-Mike, you're welcome, YAM burst way too low, you didn't miss anything anyway today. as i understand they will have another launch tomorrow
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[18:52] <SM0ULC-R1b> DL1SGP: really sad to hear about lunar_lander!
[18:53] Action: x-f sighs.
[18:53] <x-f> terribly sad news :(
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[18:56] <DL1SGP> SM0ULC-R1b x-f thank you. I thought this would be best way to let you know.
[18:58] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> got worried when he was not checking in with all the launches coming up, thought he got sick or someting, this is terrible news.... :(
[18:58] <DL1SGP> interesting enough I do not see my own post on the mailing list yet
[18:58] <SM0ULC-R1b> DL1SGP: i got it 19:31
[18:59] <DL1SGP> good then it found it's way
[18:59] <AndyEsser> Indeed - arrived about 1.5 hour ago
[18:59] <DL1SGP> yes I was getting very worried myself, have not heard from him in 6 days so contacted his University in order to check. I will think of him alot tomorrow
[19:00] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> how old was he?
[19:02] <DL1SGP> I do not know. There is hope that I will be getting more details in the coming week, I plan sending a condolences card to his parents, personally and I would assume that the project group would do likewise. so far little is known about what happened. But one thing is certain, he died too young.
[19:05] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> ok
[19:09] <PE2BZ> DL1SGP Sad to hear.... Wish you and his family strength the upcoming time !
[19:09] <DL1SGP> thanks PE2BZ
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[19:33] <Upu> Thats really sad DL1SGP, if you do get an address for his family let us know
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[19:43] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KE8DQL - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KE8DQL
[19:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BME280 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BME280
[19:47] <x-f> i never knew him in person, but i remember he had a very deep voice.
[19:48] <x-f> when Dan Bowen's team was getting ready to finally launch Whitestar, we had applied as volontiers in different timezones to do the ATC comms etc, if needed
[19:48] <x-f> along with fsphil and Upu, iirc
[19:49] <x-f> after one of the late night training sessions the American guys asked him to say "hasta la vista, baby"
[19:49] <x-f> he knew why, it came out very natural and he sounded just like the Terminator. :) we all had a great laugh.
[19:54] <fsphil> I remember that well
[19:57] <SM0ULC-R1b>
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[20:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> cqGB3VRGB3RV
[20:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Ah wrong radio device!
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[20:39] <Boutatrain> join /#habhub
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[20:44] <daveake> close
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[20:59] <SpeedEvil> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/743602229307805696 - Elon musk hates accordians
[21:04] <russss> I said it wasn't fast :P
[21:05] <AndyEsser> fast enough
[21:06] <Laurenceb__> I back of enveloped <10m/s
[21:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MIKEL - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MIKEL
[21:06] <Laurenceb__> looks like someone was playing with the vehicle firmware and broke it
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> I wonder how pancaked the engines were
[21:09] <Laurenceb__> prob not very
[21:09] <Laurenceb__> financial black hole gallery has been updated
[21:10] <Laurenceb__> https://www.iter.org/album/construction
[21:10] <Laurenceb__> the project where they make room sized assembly jigs just to put one cable together
[21:10] <russss> they have some interesting videos on youtube
[21:11] <russss> they have some incredible CNC winding machines and stuff
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> And half the cost seems to be rebar, going by the pictures
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> When a bad solder-joint can cost a billion dollars, ...
[21:43] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03test1_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=test1_chase
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[23:00] <Oddstr13> SA6BSS-Mike|2: thanks for that link, found the inReach explorer which is pretty much exactly what I've been looking for the past week or two ^^
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[23:33] <Ian_> DL1SGP DL7AD, I am distressed and saddened to hear the news of lunar_lander's passing. RiP Kevin
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[23:39] <fsphil> it's very upsetting
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[00:00] --- Sat Jun 18 2016