highaltitude.log.20160608

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[02:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HB9VSA_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HB9VSA_chase
[03:02] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03W7QO-9 after 0312 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W7QO-9
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[06:41] <AndyEsser> anyone in here have experience with 3G/4G modules for PCBs?
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[06:54] <DL7AD_> morning
[06:57] <SA6BSS-Mike> gm
[06:58] <SA6BSS-Mike> DL7AD_: listenig for your balloon monday afternoon evening as prediction put it over me but nothing heard
[07:00] <DL7AD_> SA6BSS-Mike: the battery must have gone already for days
[07:00] <DL7AD_> it ran only 3xAAA energizer
[07:01] <DL7AD_> expected lifespan was 3...4 days
[07:01] <DL7AD_> SA6BSS-Mike: we will launch another balloon on saturday
[07:03] <DL7AD_> a latex balloon
[07:04] <SA6BSS-Mike> ah, ok, thaught it was solar
[07:05] <SA6BSS-Mike> going for up/down fllight?
[07:12] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K5UTD-11 after 039 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K5UTD-11
[07:14] <DL7AD_> SA6BSS-Mike: up and down
[07:14] <DL7AD_> 17:30 local time
[07:14] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok, ok, predicted burst alt?
[07:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> if u get it over 25000m I will probably be in los, its 620km to berlin
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[07:17] <SA6BSS-Mike> I?l tuen the yagi to the south and hope for the best :)
[07:19] <DL7AD_> SA6BSS-Mike: we will to 9k6 APRS SSDV and 1k2 APRS SSDV + normal aprs
[07:19] <DL7AD_> so you would need an 9k6 receiver or sdr dongle
[07:20] <gonzo_> emf ticket day ?
[07:20] <DL7AD_> SA6BSS-Mike: i will explain it later more detailed
[07:20] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok, tnx
[07:20] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: indeed
[07:20] <AndyEsser> 7pm this evening
[07:20] <AndyEsser> BST
[07:21] <gonzo_> ah, ok, I'll stop refreshing the page then
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[07:22] <AndyEsser> ha
[07:22] <AndyEsser> keep an eye on the Twitter and Facebook pages
[07:23] <AndyEsser> suspect it'll be announced on those
[07:24] <SA6BSS-Mike> there is more then one plugins to chroem that reads a page at a set time ferame rate and report when there is a change on the page
[07:27] <AndyEsser> SA6BSS-Mike: it's called Twitter :P
[07:27] <SA6BSS-Mike> hehe, ok
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[07:29] <SA6BSS-Mike> I have in number of occasions get kits that allways was sold out and relead in small quantities
[07:29] <SA6BSS-Mike> in this way
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[08:59] <craag> AndyEsser: They have been laggy on announcing it in the past, refreshing the page (around the time) might be more reliable.
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[09:02] <AndyEsser> craag: true, it is, however, still 9 away :)
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[09:22] <fsphil> must see if I can get a tent with a spot for antennas :)
[09:23] <AndyEsser> pop up tentenna
[09:24] <fsphil> antenta
[09:24] <gonzo_> pop up antenna
[09:25] <gonzo_> (hmmm, ok, VNC lag again, I'm not intentionally a parrot!)
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[09:31] <AndyEsser> hmm, I might have to skip EMF :(
[09:33] <craag> AndyEsser: how come?
[09:34] <AndyEsser> just been thinking over some things - with me going to Download this weekend, it's a cash flow issue :(
[09:35] <gonzo_> not been to that for a very long time
[09:35] <gonzo_> it was MoR when I went
[09:35] <AndyEsser> that was a while ago!
[09:35] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:36] <gonzo_> did look at it last year, but the whole event and camping rules were too oppresive
[09:36] <gonzo_> the main deciding factor in going to a festival, can I park next to the tent
[09:39] <AndyEsser> with 10's of thousands of cars around, I can see that being tricky
[09:42] <gonzo_> the have changed the rules on cooking fuels by the looks
[09:43] <gonzo_> they used to ban pressurised gas. Which I saw as a loophole.
[09:43] <gonzo_> now it's any gas canisters (they don't mention bottles)
[09:43] <gonzo_> thought they now seem to ban only petrol stoves, but allow alcohol ones whioch is better
[09:44] <gonzo_> before ithey banned just about anything. Assume they want all punters to be wrung dry by the on site catering
[10:04] <AndyEsser> asked this earlier, but was probably far too early
[10:04] <AndyEsser> anyone have experience with 3G/4G type modules?
[10:04] <SpeedEvil> AndyEsser: somewhat
[10:05] <AndyEsser> SpeedEvil: 1) any recommendations? 2) how do they work, regarding SIM, need to add your own sim?
[10:05] <SpeedEvil> yes, you need to add a SIM
[10:05] <SpeedEvil> And no, not recently
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> why 3g/4g
[10:06] <AndyEsser> ah ok - cheers
[10:06] <AndyEsser> it's purely for a two way data connection
[10:06] <AndyEsser> so text is out
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> I mean - 2G data is a thing too
[10:06] <AndyEsser> s/text/SMS
[10:08] <craag> 2G modules (which also do SMS) are a lot cheaper
[10:08] <AndyEsser> hmm 50kbit/s should be sufficient bandwidth
[10:09] <craag> What are you connecting to this? microcontroller?
[10:09] <AndyEsser> will be, yes
[10:09] <craag> doing 50kb/s ?
[10:10] <AndyEsser> I said 50kb/s should be enough - not that I'd max it out :P
[10:10] <craag> There's a few things around such as the 'SIM900' module with a lot of example code and such
[10:11] <craag> they have UDP/TCP/HTTP stacks builtin and then you drive them over serial
[10:11] <AndyEsser> perfect
[10:11] <AndyEsser> :)
[10:11] <AndyEsser> thanks
[10:11] <AndyEsser> that's what I was hoping for - either a serial or I2C command, and for the UDP/TCP stack to be handled on-board the chip/module
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[10:13] <adamgreig> more fun to diy the stack :p
[10:13] <AndyEsser> true, but takes more time
[10:14] <AndyEsser> presume I just have to add a sim card holder of some flavour which hooks in
[10:14] <acetoline> Elon Musk has brought this up a few times, and it's made me curious
[10:14] Action: AndyEsser downloads all the documents
[10:14] <acetoline> what options exist for supersonic electric propulsion?
[10:15] <craag> AndyEsser: Have a google for 'SIM900 GSM', there's a few pre-made boards with SIM holder and antenna socket and such
[10:15] <AndyEsser> ta
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[10:16] <miek> also SIM800
[10:16] <AndyEsser> ah there we go 5 pins for sim
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[10:27] <AndyEsser> can the ARM Cortex chips run arbitray code off flash ROM?
[10:30] <adamgreig> flash ROM?
[10:30] <adamgreig> arbitrary code?
[10:30] <adamgreig> what are you trying to get at
[10:31] <adamgreig> the onboard flash is not really ROM, if you had external ROM you could probably load code off it and run but it'd likely need to work with the fsmc to be seen as part of the memory space and you'd probably need a bootloader to set it up
[10:31] <mattbrejza> if they couldnt run code off flash they would be a bit useless
[10:31] <adamgreig> most external flash won't be rom anyway :p
[10:31] <adamgreig> as far as arbitrary code goes, I mean it has to be thumb2 instructions (or ARM for cortex-A chips anyway) but otherwise obviously you can run any code you want
[10:34] <AndyEsser> sorry, was AFK
[10:34] <AndyEsser> take the AVR for example
[10:34] <AndyEsser> I have to program it with the code via the programmer
[10:34] <adamgreig> that's not strictly true
[10:34] <adamgreig> it can write its own flash too, so you can program it via a bootloader or your existing code
[10:34] <AndyEsser> I'm looking for a way that code could be up updated over the wire - so new software download from somewhere, stored somewhere (ROM was my mistake, apologies) and then executed
[10:35] <adamgreig> sure, AVRs can do that, it's how Arduino works
[10:35] <adamgreig> also yes STM32s can do that
[10:35] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: the AVR I've got 328 doesn't allow it
[10:35] <adamgreig> yes it does
[10:35] <adamgreig> they even come with a number of bootloaders for different protocols - if BOOT0 is high when the chip resets, then UART0, CAN, eth, USB, they all wait serial bootloading of code
[10:35] <adamgreig> (^ is STM32)
[10:36] <adamgreig> (AVRs need a bootloader loaded first, like Arduino)
[10:36] <AndyEsser> hmm
[10:36] <AndyEsser> I'm sure I looked into this for my tracker - will need to dig deeper
[10:36] <adamgreig> it's literally how arduinos are reprogrammed
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[10:36] <AndyEsser> so either find or write a bootloader, and then it could execute a program I wrote via avr-gcc that matched my bootloader (for entry point etc) and read it from somewhere
[10:36] <AndyEsser> interesting, cheers
[10:37] <AndyEsser> I presumed the Arduino had something hooked up to the ISP port
[10:38] <AndyEsser> (and then a wrapper around the programmed code)
[10:39] <adamgreig> there are plenty of bootloaders avaialable
[10:39] <adamgreig> I mean I recommend swapping to the STM32s anyway
[10:39] <mfa298> The Arduino boot loader lets you update the program over the serial lines, useful if it's already connected to a computer as a console
[10:39] <adamgreig> they're cheaper _and_ better
[10:39] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: for this project I wasn't going to use an AVR anyway
[10:39] <AndyEsser> I was just referencing it as my previous research into the subject
[10:41] <AndyEsser> interesting, so I could load (via whatever mechanism) the program code into the flash, and just have the bootloader code jump to the first intstruction in that and continue
[10:41] <AndyEsser> not sure I missed all this when I researched it first time
[10:41] <AndyEsser> thanks both
[10:42] <adamgreig> note the AVR chip has to be in bootloader mode to write to its flash iirc
[10:42] <adamgreig> not that that's a big issue
[10:42] <qyx> AndyEsser: I am using an external SPI flash for OTA updates for example
[10:42] <adamgreig> given it can jump to bootloader mode by itself or whatever
[10:42] <qyx> the user code allows me to download a new firmware image, it is saved to external SPI flash
[10:42] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: cheers - again wouldn't use an AVR for this project - and it's overkill for my tracker
[10:43] <qyx> then the thing is rebooted, firmware flashed to the internal flash by the bootloader, verified, authenticated and booted
[10:43] <AndyEsser> qyx: what MCU are you using?
[10:43] <adamgreig> qyx: some stm32s have a dual banked flash thing that looks nice
[10:43] <adamgreig> you can run off one and write to the other
[10:43] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: nice
[10:43] <adamgreig> and then just swap between them at boot
[10:43] <AndyEsser> that's convenient
[10:44] <qyx> adamgreig: yep
[10:44] Action: AndyEsser must remember to write verification code into the download/install process to prevent... problems
[10:44] <AndyEsser> :)
[10:44] <qyx> AndyEsser: stm32f401 for that thing
[10:44] <AndyEsser> ta
[10:45] <qyx> tweetnacl is your friend if you want crypto-strength verification and signatures
[10:46] <qyx> it is just a few kbytes
[10:46] <AndyEsser> ta
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[11:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DK0TU-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK0TU-11
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[12:17] <PE2BZ> !flights
[12:17] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03PICO-25 144.251 MHz CTSTIA32/1000 10(0b32), 03UBSEDS15 434.600 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(d812)
[12:26] <michal_f_wrk> hi all... can you recommend any PC app for offline maps? This is for a chasecar when I'm out of internet access...
[12:27] <michal_f_wrk> Ideally I'd like to feed it with payload position and car position from external sources...
[12:27] Nick change: michal_f_wrk -> michal_f
[12:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W9YJ-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W9YJ-11
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[12:43] <AndreeeCZ> hi!
[12:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I thought but maybe out of date that one of the Apps did support both maps and offline tracking
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[12:44] <AndreeeCZ> If i disregard the legality for now, AM would be better, right? If i just want to send ping and location signals ?
[12:44] <adamgreig> AM?
[12:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> No, SSB is the best option, this actually creates an FSK signal
[12:45] <adamgreig> SSB is probably not the "best" option
[12:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> AM is where you vary the strength of the main carrier itself rather than simply move the frequency of the carrier
[12:45] <adamgreig> 2FSK is probably the simplest option assuming we're all on the same page here but what are you talking about AndreeeCZ
[12:46] <craag> michal_f: Matt's "Hab Modem and Tracker" android app is probably the only commonly known option.
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[12:46] <craag> It uses downloaded offline OSM data, and decodes+plots the rtty itself
[12:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The term SSB is really only used as a means of recovering the signal at the receiver end.
[12:48] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Its a slightly confusing set of terms
[12:48] <AndreeeCZ> i mean price vs stability vs long-range-ness
[12:48] <michal_f> craag: I have it ! I totally forgot it has offline maps feature
[12:48] <daveake> +r re Matt's HAB tracker
[12:49] <daveake> +1 even
[12:49] <AndreeeCZ> My plan so far is build a hab with a camera, radio and gps
[12:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> no AM is about the worst method, half the power is spent in sending a carrier wave and 1/4 of the power is spent in generating each of two sets of sidebands
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> It's not really SSB, it's actually just SDR, that happens to use the SSB radio as a sampler
[12:49] <craag> michal_f: If you haven't used it in a while, delete the map file and redownload it as I think they've been updating it recently.
[12:49] <AndreeeCZ> Geoff-G8DHE, ok i see
[12:49] <michal_f> anyway... I still need smth for PC
[12:50] <SpeedEvil> Geoff-G8DHE-M: which doesn't really matter, to a large degree, as we're not remotely power limited in general (at 50bps anyway)
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[12:50] <SpeedEvil> As you can get clear to the horizon on 10mW
[12:50] <michal_f> craag: I use some older version Matt provided for me. For some reason, newer one didn't decode RTTY properly (?)
[12:51] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> In terms of propogation agreed but in terms of generating the signal AM is not the sensible route.
[12:51] <adamgreig> AndreeeCZ: the simplest is radio modules you can get where a voltage on an input pin changes frequency, so you can set it "high" or "low" to shift between two freqs, and then wire it to a serial port so it just transmits serial data
[12:51] <adamgreig> it's also what almost everyone does
[12:51] <adamgreig> and pretty reliable and straightforward and so on
[12:51] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> fully agree
[12:52] <AndreeeCZ> adamgreig, you mean physically wiring it to a usart?
[12:52] <adamgreig> yea
[12:52] <AndreeeCZ> (with corrections for the voltage ranges)
[12:52] <adamgreig> I mean maybe through a divider network for the voltage ranges yes
[12:52] <AndreeeCZ> yeah i get it
[12:52] <AndreeeCZ> cool
[12:52] <adamgreig> that's what most people do
[12:52] <adamgreig> well some/many people just use a general IO pin and bitbang the serial because we often use low baud rates like 50 or 300
[12:52] <AndreeeCZ> and on the receiving end, i do the same?
[12:53] <adamgreig> on the receiving end we usually use more serious radios, like SDRs or amateur radios, connected to a computer, which does the demodulation
[12:53] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> normally its handled by SDR receiver directly
[12:54] <craag> michal_f: You can update the OSM map file it's pointing to, independently. Don't worry about it if you're not sure where it is though :)
[12:54] <gonzo_> the only real justification for using less efficient modes like AM/Fm, was that SSB capable receivers were more expensive than simple AM/FM. But that argument has gone away with availabily of cheap SDR
[12:54] <adamgreig> I reckon there might be good reasons to use AM
[12:55] <craag> As for PC software, I know there was a PC app a while ago that accepted GPS input data and plotted it, but not sure it ran on anything after winxp!
[12:55] <adamgreig> it's not just universally "worse"
[12:55] <adamgreig> guess it depends what you really mean by AM too
[12:55] <adamgreig> BPSK is basically AM...
[12:55] <AndreeeCZ> adamgreig, "more serious radios" - could you pls give an example?
[12:55] <craag> The dedicated people among us now seem to be dashboard mounting RPis with small touchscreens for that purpose.
[12:55] <adamgreig> well like the Airspy is popular or the RTL-SDR USB sticks or perhaps a Yaesu FT817 or I have an icom ic7000 and stuff
[12:56] <gonzo_> I think most people think of AM as being DSB full carrier
[12:56] <adamgreig> for voice maybe
[12:56] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> quite agree
[12:56] <adamgreig> but "most people" means "most amateur radio operators" there I think
[12:56] <adamgreig> well
[12:56] <adamgreig> and most people receiving broadcast radio entertainment of course :P
[12:57] <fsphil> there isn't much entertainment left on the medium wave band :)
[12:57] <adamgreig> but if you were using AM to transmit data, presumably you're really doing OOK or PAM
[12:57] <adamgreig> which is quite distinct from DSB with full carrier
[12:57] <adamgreig> and nevertheless definitely AM
[12:58] <adamgreig> PAM even has AM in the name!
[12:58] <fsphil> so does QAM :)
[12:58] <adamgreig> yes I was going to get on to that :P
[12:58] <adamgreig> I think QAM on HABs is probably not wise considering our constraints but might be enjoyable
[12:58] <fsphil> spoilers
[12:59] <adamgreig> I reckon bpsk on a hab could be fun though!
[12:59] <fsphil> the IQ modulator ICs are quite power hungry
[12:59] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> To understand these discussions you need a good understaning of all the modulation methods!!
[12:59] <adamgreig> people must have done it
[12:59] <adamgreig> fsphil: yea for sure, much more so than a fract-n pll doing fsk
[12:59] <adamgreig> or just a crystal being pulled indeed
[12:59] <fsphil> yeah
[12:59] <fsphil> but as you say, would still be fnu
[12:59] <fsphil> fun*
[13:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> AndreeeCZ, Where or why do you think AM would be the better method ?
[13:00] <adamgreig> i reckon bpsk could be done in a very power-competitive fashion
[13:00] <adamgreig> and potentially have better error performance than 2fsk
[13:00] <adamgreig> haven't Done The Maths " though
[13:01] <AndreeeCZ> Geoff-G8DHE, "AM has poorer sound quality compared with FM, but is cheaper and can be transmitted over long distances." from http://www.diffen.com/difference/AM_vs_FM
[13:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03$$CHANGEME_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=%24%24CHANGEME_chase
[13:01] <adamgreig> oh cor yea I wouldn't listen to that rubbish
[13:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> AndreeeCZ, Right yes this is talking about sending voice or music
[13:01] <adamgreig> it's just talking about broadcast audio voice/music for broadcast radio
[13:02] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> we are only interested in Binary - two state data with "nothing" between the two levels
[13:02] <AndreeeCZ> yeah but i figure since i need 1bit resolution anyway
[13:02] <gonzo_> there was an idea in G4JNT's columb in radcom a while ago, about simple IQ modulation for HABS
[13:02] <AndreeeCZ> so i though 'lower sound quality' doesnt matter and the 'long distance' is even more
[13:03] <fsphil> I'd suggest starting with FSK and going from there
[13:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> the simplest modulation to create and lowest power requirement is Frequency Shift Keying
[13:03] <fsphil> it's tried and tested, a well proven system
[13:03] <gonzo_> the transmitting over distance is refering to the frequencies used, rather than the modulation
[13:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Phase Shift Keying in that respect is the same
[13:04] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> but with existing software and hardware already written the FSK is the easiest to decode
[13:04] <fsphil> I've always wondered why FM wasn't used on the shortwave bands. lack of bandwidth, doesn't like the multipath effects?
[13:04] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> by pretending that it is a SSB signal
[13:04] <gonzo_> they are talking about wideband FM on VHF and voicebandwidth AM on meduim wave. RAther than just comparing AM and FM directly
[13:05] <AndreeeCZ> Geoff-G8DHE, which i do by the ntx2, correct?
[13:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yes the NTX/MTX transmitters the way we use them is to create FSK
[13:05] <gonzo_> fsphil, they do. It's called CB
[13:05] <AndreeeCZ> (too many new words for me ssb, vhf, 2fsk, pam, dsp, qam, ic :D )
[13:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Thats the problem!
[13:06] <fsphil> gonzo_: the commercial broadcasters I mean
[13:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The detail to understanding thelm all is quite deep, but at the surface leve
[13:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> level OOK and FSK are easy to generate.
[13:06] <fsphil> AndreeeCZ: yeah there's a lot of terms. but they're all mostly related and you'll soon get the hang of them :)
[13:07] <gonzo_> AndreeeCZ, there is frequency, which is where on the radio spectrim the signas are. And modulation, whoich is how you put information on that signal. The rest is some googling for you
[13:08] <gonzo_> AM suffers from multipath and selective fading (I feel I am about to get corrected here).
[13:09] <gonzo_> but I suspect that it's all down to the historical cost/simplicity of broadcast RX
[13:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> All the signals will suffer the same but its how easy it is to recover the modulation after phase/freq/amplitude changes occur enroute
[13:09] <fsphil> everything suffers from multipath on HF :)
[13:09] <fsphil> just some modes handle it better than others
[13:10] <fsphil> it makes a lovely pattern on the waterfall
[13:10] <gonzo_> Iwas just typing that
[13:11] <gonzo_> interesting to compare a fading Am signal when using a synk demod
[13:11] <gonzo_> sync
[13:12] <gonzo_> simple demod, when the carrier gets nulled, the agc comes up and it's a mess
[13:12] <Darkside_> and sync?
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[13:13] <gonzo_> tbh, I've never actually looked at how those work
[13:14] <gonzo_> I'd assumed that it was a locally generateed CIO locked to the remains of the rx'ed carrier?
[13:14] <Darkside_> i guess
[13:14] <Darkside_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3w526pqv49zaohz/drm_barber_pole.png?dl=0
[13:15] <Darkside_> actually this one is better: https://www.dropbox.com/s/skljjoc00eudhkz/drm_fading2.png?dl=0
[13:15] <fsphil> hah, barber pole is a good way of describing it
[13:16] <Darkside_> well the second one is a bit more complex
[13:16] <fsphil> http://i.imgur.com/F7ugPVl.png
[13:16] <gonzo_> have seen it on lots of stanag modem traces
[13:16] <fsphil> this looks more granular
[13:16] <Darkside_> yeah theres an example of complex fading
[13:16] <Darkside_> it depends on the number of 'paths'
[13:17] <fsphil> http://i.imgur.com/jGiTc80.jpg
[13:17] <fsphil> this was DAB
[13:17] <Darkside_> and how they interact
[13:17] <Darkside_> woah
[13:17] <Darkside_> you guys have a single frequency network though, right?
[13:17] <Darkside_> multiple locations transmitting on the same frequency
[13:17] <fsphil> yeah
[13:17] <Darkside_> as i'd expect weird shit to happen when they combine
[13:18] <Darkside_> but the beauty of OFDM is you can disvern those apart
[13:18] <Darkside_> that looks real nice though
[13:18] <Darkside_> i expect the selective fading on DAB like that owuld be far easier to analyze than on HF
[13:18] <fsphil> guessing it's drift in the clocks of the two transmitters
[13:18] <Darkside_> nah
[13:18] <gonzo_> never seen it on DAB. But the local TX is 9+40 with no antenna connected!
[13:18] <Darkside_> ducting would cause the path length to change a bit
[13:18] <fsphil> ah true
[13:18] <gonzo_> local reflections
[13:18] <Darkside_> even simple temp variations will do it
[13:18] <fsphil> it changes very slowly
[13:18] <Darkside_> yeah
[13:19] <Darkside_> remember you only have to be 180 degrees out of phase
[13:19] <Darkside_> and at DAB thats not a big distance
[13:19] <fsphil> hmm I'll have to try capturing it from a car
[13:19] <Darkside_> heh
[13:20] <Darkside_> yeah while moving
[13:20] <Darkside_> you should see rayleigh fading from each of the single transmitter
[13:20] <Darkside_> dunno how they'd combine tho
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[14:30] <pb0ahx_> Upu, in the house ????
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[15:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KE0GEO-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KE0GEO-12
[15:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KE0GEO-13 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KE0GEO-13
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[16:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CAEN_CP1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CAEN_CP1
[16:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03G6SQX_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=G6SQX_chase
[16:15] Nick change: michal_f -> michal_f_off
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[17:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF0GEO-13 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF0GEO-13
[17:08] <PE2BZ> Hi. Did someone ever test the raspberry pi camera cables with 70 cm or even 2 meter lenght ?
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[17:16] <Laurenceb__> anyone here used sleuthkit or similar?
[17:16] <Laurenceb__> its being weird for me, cant find files that are there when the system mounts normally
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[17:23] <craag> PE2BZ: If you use the adaptors to put it over HDMI cable, I've seen 1.5m work fine.
[17:25] <daveake> PE2BZ: I have one now on my kittykam. 1 metre I think. It's been in use continuously for weeks, delivering video.
[17:25] <daveake> I doubt any GPS will work near it though :)
[17:29] <Lunar_Lander> much RF?
[17:30] <PE2BZ> craag Adapters to connect the Pi Cam over a HDMI cable ? That´s new for me.
[17:31] <PE2BZ> daveake thanks. 1 meter is more then long enough to have the PiCam look outside and have the Pi inside
[17:31] <craag> PE2BZ: eg. https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/pi-camera-hdmi-cable-extension
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[17:33] <PE2BZ> craag thanks, that´s a nice shielded solution !
[17:33] <daveake> Interesting option
[17:34] <craag> Dad uses them for the picam in his DATV setup, doesn't appear to affect any 2m/70cm comms alongside.
[17:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hi_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hi_chase
[17:36] <daveake> I had a medium length - maybe 300mm - cable in one payload (the capsule for the Babbage jump flight). It switched to video for the jump, and the GPS then stopped :/
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> :/
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[17:44] <PE2BZ> Ik ga nog 2 testen doen met een andere power instelling. Maar dat doe ik als er 1 plaatje compleet met ondertitel is.
[17:46] <PE2BZ> wrong window ;-(
[17:59] <PE2BZ> 70 cm is opening in direction UK. I am transmitting SSDV on 432.625 in LoRa mode 1 with a 7 elements in direction UK vertically polarised
[18:04] <Ian_> Pi Zeros at Pi Hut now
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[18:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> PE2BZ Listening on LoRa 434.625 Mode 1
[18:05] <PE2BZ> Thanks Geoff !
[18:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> What is your QRA ?
[18:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I can't see you on the map to align the beam!
[18:07] <PE2BZ> JO21CX / Naaldwijk, about in line with Rotterdam
[18:08] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> OK nothing at present but will leave it on during till tomorrow ...
[18:09] <PE2BZ> Thanks. At http://www.pe2bz.nl/hamradio/skymonitor/rtlTest_power.png you can see at 404.525 my reception from a P25 transmitter on an airbase in the UK.
[18:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SQ5FNQ-11 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ5FNQ-11
[18:46] <AndyEsser> EMF tickets peeps
[18:47] <craag> probably not many left now
[18:47] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KM6AOX-11 after 033 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KM6AOX-11
[18:51] <AndyEsser> Yea, I'm going to have to wait unilt next year
[18:51] <AndyEsser> until*
[18:51] <AndyEsser> or get my 3-day first aid...
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[19:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-11
[19:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KE0GEO-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KE0GEO-11
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[20:16] <gonzo_> russss, have the EMF tickets all gone?
[20:17] <russss> yup, all gone. We have some returns so there may be a small sale in a month or so
[20:18] <russss> but at the moment we're sold out
[20:18] <gonzo_> bugger. Was trying to get a child one, but couldmn't log on till I got home to get the email link.......
[20:19] <russss> oh that sucks
[20:19] <russss> I can see what we can do, unfortunately kids are included in our site capacity
[20:20] <gonzo_> cheers. Understand
[20:20] <russss> there will almost certainly be more tickets on sale, but I can't say how many, or when
[20:20] <russss> it's likely that our sponsors won't take up all their allocation either
[20:20] <gonzo_> I can be on the button to buy
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[20:45] <AndyEsser> russss: if it happens to be after this month, I can jump in on that action :P
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[20:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ5FNQ-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ5FNQ-12
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[21:09] <Ian_> Ha ha, AndyEsser living on the financial edge! When do you start your new post?
[21:14] <AndyEsser> 4th July
[21:14] <mfa298> good choice of date to start something independant
[21:16] <gonzo__m> a month is a long time when the bills keep coming in
[21:19] <AndyEsser> mfa298: indeed :)
[21:19] <AndyEsser> I should walk in dragging an alien :P
[21:19] <AndyEsser> and a cigar
[21:20] <AndyEsser> gonzo__m: all my bills (barring phone and internet) go out on the first couple days of the month
[21:20] <AndyEsser> but I have a parking fine to pay, and food, and Download festival
[21:20] <Ian_> I found, many years ago, that a company that I joined paid salaries on 15th of the month and I got paid pro rata for the first few weeks.
[21:21] <Ian_> I didn't realise that you were a parking ticket collector. I've had two in my life
[21:21] <AndyEsser> I've had 2 in a week ;)
[21:21] <AndyEsser> worst was 4 in a week once
[21:21] <AndyEsser> or 2 in one day
[21:21] <AndyEsser> :P
[21:22] <Ian_> You are either a very keen collector or were having a very bad day pushing your luck :)
[21:22] <AndyEsser> I was in london working with a client
[21:22] <AndyEsser> paid for a ticket, but apparently the particular space I parked in was permit only, despite the rest of the street being pay and display
[21:22] <AndyEsser> the lines had faded, and tbh I didn't have the energy to appeal it
[21:23] <Ian_> That sounds a bit cut throat
[21:23] <AndyEsser> especially as I was told I had an hours grace after they removed the clamp to move my car
[21:24] <AndyEsser> I returned about 40 mins after they removed the clamp and had the 2nd ticket
[21:24] <AndyEsser> *sigh*
[21:24] <AndyEsser> I hate London
[21:25] <Ian_> I guess that you are moving out? To Cheshire?
[21:26] <Ian_> There you might come back to your car and find it propped up on cheeses
[21:27] <AndyEsser> I moved to Cheshire about 18 months ago
[21:27] <AndyEsser> and I'm in a good part :P Chester
[21:27] <AndyEsser> not Manchester or Liverpool
[21:28] <Ian_> London is good to visit but otherwise too busy for a lot of people, me included.
[21:29] <AndyEsser> yea, even when I lived down south I could just about manage it for a day, or a night for dinner/drinks etc
[21:29] <AndyEsser> hated being at Uni there
[21:29] <AndyEsser> hate going back
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