highaltitude.log.20160602

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[00:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UCDAV3-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UCDAV3-11
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[00:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03truck_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=truck_chase
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[06:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ANU - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ANU
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[07:10] <PE2BZ> Good morning all
[07:10] <PE2BZ> !flights
[07:10] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: There are no flights currently :(
[07:11] <PE2BZ> SpacenearUS yes there are ;-)
[07:11] <PE2BZ> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/WRcaLEoNNew
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[07:15] <Vaizki_> SM0ULC-Reb: from the fresh hysplit looks like I won't.. :(
[07:15] <SA6BSS-Mike> oh, new tower right in the right palce
[07:16] <Vaizki_> it will pass about 400km away
[07:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> lets see if oh8hhp hear it
[07:17] <SA6BSS-Mike> should be in range next couple of hours
[07:18] <SA6BSS-Mike> there is a good web sdr on Espo , in range later this afternoon http://www.globaltuners.com/receiver/1355/js2
[07:19] <SA6BSS-Mike> well it will be in the edge, hopefully some contestia ccomes through during the day
[07:20] <Vaizki_> yea it's quite close to me
[07:20] <mfa298> PE2BZ: "next thursday" may mean next week, although would have been nice if they put a date on there.
[07:20] <SA6BSS-Mike> there is a test of airspy mini in rtl sdr blog http://www.rtl-sdr.com/review-airspy-mini/
[07:21] <SA6BSS-Mike> sold my hamit up v1.3 highly unstable , going for the spyverter
[07:22] <PE2BZ> mfa298 indeed, but he also uses the word ¨tomorrow¨ if I recall right ?
[07:23] <Vaizki_> SA6BSS-Mike: I got the Mini and spyverter.. they are both nice nice nice..
[07:23] <mfa298> PE2BZ: I think that bit is just testing (and hopefully flight docs)
[07:24] <SA6BSS-Mike> Vaizki_: good to hear! order one later this weekend
[07:29] <Vaizki_> and the mini is tiny..
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[07:31] <fsphil> well named then
[07:31] <Upu> as opposed to when the Germans get involved http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/minioldnew.jpg
[07:32] <x-f> "mini" is not a SI unit :)
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[07:38] <Vaizki_> Upu: well to be fair all the cars have blown up in size :)
[07:39] <Vaizki_> but yes the germans are good at it.. http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/halogen/39fc2808fc4aeafdf7995ba524b89b20
[07:40] <Upu> :)
[07:43] <Vaizki_> I think it's pretty impossible to make a car as small as the original mini / golf (see what I did there!) due to safety regs etc
[07:43] <Vaizki_> even the new VW Up! city car is a monster compared to the old Golfs
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[08:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS15 after 0310 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS15
[08:19] <fsphil> it lives
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[08:20] <fsphil> well that's definitly gone all the way around the hemisphere
[08:21] <fsphil> richardeoin: congrats :)
[08:22] <AndyEsser> very cool
[08:30] <gonzo__> only another 7 laps to go?
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[08:49] <Vaizki_> yeay in Finland.. and my home internet died this morning
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[09:18] <Vaizki_> home internet lives.. but of course some ISM device is bang on 434.600.. :) http://i.imgur.com/o1gHZY8.png
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[09:18] <AndyEsser> that noise floor is so nice and low!
[09:19] <Vaizki_> I have gain actually set quite high.. airspy + decimation gets the NF down though
[09:21] <Vaizki_> in this case airspy mini + decimation 16..
[09:21] <AndyEsser> interesting
[09:21] <Vaizki_> and using X50 antenna... did you get a non-broken one?
[09:22] <AndyEsser> yes
[09:23] <Vaizki_> here is without decimation (showing 4.8MHz) http://i.imgur.com/8zs6vL8.png
[09:24] <Vaizki_> still not horrible as the ISM band is relatively quiet here
[09:24] <AndyEsser> my NF sits around -50/-45dB
[09:24] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:24] <Vaizki_> rtl-sdr?
[09:24] <AndyEsser> yea
[09:24] <AndyEsser> and is busy as hell :(
[09:24] <Vaizki_> well I'm not sure you can really even compare the dB between devices
[09:25] <AndyEsser> probably not
[09:25] <AndyEsser> :P
[09:25] <AndyEsser> will get an airspy once I've started the new job
[09:25] <Vaizki_> how'd your interview go?
[09:26] <AndyEsser> got the job :)
[09:26] <Vaizki_> woo woo congrats
[09:26] <AndyEsser> ta
[09:30] <edmoore> grab yourself a lab psu to celebrate
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[09:30] <AndyEsser> edmoore: will do
[09:30] <AndyEsser> I need to do the sensible thing and stick money away for tax and what not
[09:30] <AndyEsser> (yay)
[09:31] <AndyEsser> but at least I can charge it all to the company, and reclaim the VAT
[09:31] <AndyEsser> to reduce my CT liability
[09:31] <edmoore> a lab psu is still a good thing
[09:31] <edmoore> get a good one
[09:31] <edmoore> buy right buy once
[09:32] <edmoore> as useful as a scope
[09:32] <AndyEsser> I have an unpopular opinion of the PSU I want
[09:32] <AndyEsser> I like the Rigol 2 + 1 PSU
[09:32] <AndyEsser> but you all hate it ;)
[09:32] <edmoore> it's protection for your electronics, it's a datalogger, it's a battery charger, it's a battery tester if you can get one that can be a load (totes worth it)
[09:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL4MDW-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL4MDW-11
[09:33] <edmoore> make sure it can be a load anyway
[09:33] <edmoore> that's really useful
[09:34] <edmoore> i would recomment an old HP one if you can
[09:35] <Vaizki_> 6632B <3
[09:35] <AndyEsser> but but
[09:35] <AndyEsser> then it looks like ass
[09:35] <edmoore> exactly
[09:35] <edmoore> no it doesn't
[09:35] <AndyEsser> (I appreciate how the PSU looks is not important)
[09:35] <edmoore> the new rigols look like ass
[09:35] <edmoore> they look like those windows XP guis for motherboard overclocking
[09:36] <fsphil> the old agilents look great on a shelf
[09:36] <edmoore> that looked like a sort of alien harley davison handlebar and dial guage
[09:36] <Vaizki_> actually what you need is a 6632B and a cheap manual dual-output one too feed regulators etc
[09:36] <edmoore> actually my hameg is f*cking great
[09:36] <edmoore> i use it all the time as my main psu
[09:36] <fsphil> +1 on the 6632B. only flaw with them is noise
[09:36] <edmoore> 3 output
[09:36] <edmoore> loads
[09:36] <edmoore> speaks a very sensible dialect of serial
[09:36] <Vaizki_> edmoore, there's like 1200 reasons for it to be great? :)
[09:36] <edmoore> 32V 2A per output, and 32V is more useful than 20V because lots of stuff i work on is 24V or 28V which is popular in avionics
[09:37] <Vaizki_> fsphil, audio noise to be exact.. not electrical.
[09:37] <edmoore> Vaizki_: well i got it for very very cheap
[09:37] <fsphil> yes indeed
[09:37] <Vaizki_> edmoore, lucky you :)
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[09:37] <SP2SGF> join #habhub
[09:38] <edmoore> /join
[09:38] <fsphil> the 6632b's serial protocol is odd but fairly simple
[09:38] <edmoore> put the / before
[09:38] <edmoore> also the hameg isn't as fanny
[09:38] <edmoore> fan-ey
[09:39] <fsphil> yeah my hameg only lets itself be heard if I'm drawing several amps from it
[09:39] <fsphil> and even then it's no louder than my PC
[09:39] <fsphil> not got the fancy serial / load version though :)
[09:40] <fsphil> it's probably the most used thing on my shelf
[09:40] <Vaizki_> so ubseds15 flight doc expired.. doh
[09:40] <Vaizki_> can someone give it a week? :)
[09:40] <edmoore> AndyEsser: the load thing is used by a lot of people here for, for example, testing lipo batteries for habs
[09:40] <edmoore> to see how they actually perform under discharge
[09:40] <edmoore> and you can log it all over serial
[09:40] <edmoore> and repeat with the lipo in the freezer, and other nice things
[09:42] <fsphil> safely discharging very large caps
[09:42] <edmoore> a power resistor will do that too
[09:42] <edmoore> it's not bad practice to put like a 10k across really big caps in equipment anyway
[09:42] <fsphil> yeah. should probably get a few of those
[09:42] <AndyEsser> edmoore: ta
[09:42] <edmoore> just to it doesn't sit there for weeks being a bomb
[09:43] <edmoore> AndyEsser: so, 6632b on ebay is *by far* the most amount of PSU for the money that exists in the world
[09:43] <AndyEsser> edmoore: once I've had a few pay cheques come in - I'll bug you all again for recommendations and checking the 6632b etc
[09:44] <fsphil> there are not many 6632b's on ebay atm
[09:44] <AndyEsser> the 6632b's only do 20v?
[09:45] <Vaizki_> yes. there's another model that does higher voltage but lower amps
[09:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HG8PSL-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HG8PSL-11
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[09:49] <AndyEsser> but yes - lots of new toys I see in my future :)
[09:50] <AndyEsser> and maybe actually finishing this HAB project...
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[09:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL4MDW - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL4MDW
[09:52] <Vaizki_> finnish market has been flooded with used test equipment in recent years due to shutdown of Nokia, Renesas, Broadcom etc R&D sites here
[09:52] Nick change: michal_f_wrk -> michal_f
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[09:53] <Vaizki_> I would assume similar closures have happened in the UK but apparently the test equipment market has not saturated as badly
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[09:58] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03W7QO-9 after 0312 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W7QO-9
[09:58] <AndyEsser> Vaizki_: will have to see what's on Ebay closer to the time :)
[09:59] <fsphil> I've used crap equipment for years. it's really nice having some nicer test gear
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[10:00] <fsphil> even if it's all ancient
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[10:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-C2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-C2
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[10:12] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RPF-C1 after 034 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-C1
[10:14] <michal_f> recently I've been watchin release of commercial balloon with vaisala's radiosone. that was interesting is that they used some kind of unwider for a coord
[10:14] <michal_f> you can see it here, first video: http://www.vaisala.com/en/meteorology/products/soundingsystemsandradiosondes/radiosondes/Pages/RS41.aspx
[10:15] <michal_f> has anybody tried this with their launches ?
[10:15] <michal_f> looks to be way more comfortable than fighting with full 25m length of string
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> they do - I have one, it's neat
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> IT's a little card sort-of.
[10:17] <fsphil> not so handy if the parachute is in the middle of the cord
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> true
[10:17] <michal_f> true fsphil, but maybe I could attach the chute aside somehow
[10:17] <fsphil> but it's still a neat trick
[10:18] <michal_f> are they available anywhere ?
[10:18] <DL7AD> ssdv floater launched
[10:18] <michal_f> what callsign
[10:18] <fsphil> http://ssdv.habhub.org/DL4MDW
[10:19] <gonzo__> bugger. Balloon season is here and still no antennas up
[10:19] <fsphil> http://ssdv.habhub.org/images/2016-06-02--00-35-56-DL4MDW-6B32.jpeg
[10:20] <DL7AD> 144.860mhz
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[10:20] <fsphil> DL7AD: you seem to have been censored. http://ssdv.habhub.org/images/2016-06-01--18-37-11-DL4MDW-6B1B.jpeg
[10:21] <DL7AD> :D
[10:23] <fsphil> any changes for this flight?
[10:23] <PE2BZ> Black bar over the eyes..... Hmmm
[10:24] <DL7AD> fsphil: what do you mean?
[10:25] <DL7AD> we transmit 144.800mhz APRS and SSDV over APRS (QVGA) + SSDV 144.86mhz 600baud 1000hz 8n2
[10:25] <fsphil> any differences in the hardware / software from the last flight?
[10:28] <DL7AD> not really
[10:28] <DL7AD> its an pecanpico7b
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[10:30] <SM0ULC-Reb> hi all
[10:30] <DL7AD> SM0ULC-Reb: balloon up here in berlin
[10:31] <SM0ULC-Reb> DL7AD: hi sven! cool! floater?
[10:31] <DL7AD> yes
[10:31] <DL7AD> 144.86mhz
[10:34] <SA6BSS-Mike> SM0ULC-Reb: DL7AD: http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=405917816217841ca569aadb7e21031f021a590b
[10:38] <DL7AD> yep
[10:43] <SA6BSS-Mike> Vaizki_: u saw the "hack" to make airspy mini do 10Mhz bw
[10:43] <Vaizki_> no..
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[10:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok, one sec
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[10:45] <SA6BSS-Mike> edit the SDRsharp.config file and set the ?airspy.debug? key to 1. Now in SDR# you can manually enter 10 MSPS into the sample rate selector and push enter.
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[10:46] <SA6BSS-Mike> in this mode there are two fixed spurs visible,
[10:47] <Vaizki_> I guess it's because there's no silabs clock generator
[10:47] <SA6BSS-Mike> exactly
[10:48] <Vaizki_> do you have a screenshot?
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[10:48] <SA6BSS-Mike> have not tride it yet, but one sec and I?l see if I get it going, I?m on remote, 0,8 Mbit upload, SLOW
[10:53] <SA6BSS-Mike> it works
[10:54] <fsphil> 800kbp/s isn't *that* slow :p
[10:54] <AndyEsser> fsphil: not all of us live in the middle of nowhere :P
[10:55] <gonzo__> it's more than I get
[10:55] <gonzo__> and I'm in a town
[10:55] <SA6BSS-Mike> https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8dnbzrag28aht7/2016-06-02%2012_54_12-SDR%23%20v1.0.0.1444%20-%20AIRSPY.jpg?dl=0
[10:55] <SA6BSS-Mike> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yrh5e9eixb363xz/2016-06-02%2012_51_02-Program%20Manager.jpg?dl=0
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[10:56] <SA6BSS-Mike> Vaizki_: its not in the dropdown, u have to enter it manualy
[10:57] <SA6BSS-Mike> BW that is in sdrsharp
[10:57] <SA6BSS-Mike> *sample rate
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[10:57] <Vaizki_> right.. well those spurs are not that bad
[10:58] <Vaizki_> they will suck with SpectrumSpy though so stick with 6MHz there.. .)
[10:58] <SA6BSS-Mike> verry narrow spurs, does not anoy me anyway so nice feture!
[10:59] <SA6BSS-Mike> with 6 Mhz u cover 2 hambands so that al one needs
[10:59] <Vaizki_> Airspy Original is much faster with SpectrumSpy because it grabs so much more BW per sweep step
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[11:00] <SA6BSS-Mike> they say, about twice as fast, 1ghz sweep in 1 sek vrs 2 sek :)
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[11:00] <michal_f> what do you think of attach parachute on separate string, not on main coord between balloon and payload ?
[11:01] <SA6BSS-Mike> back to work, got last components to my wspr floater balloon, hopefully get it going this weekend
[11:01] <michal_f> last time I had it 'classic way' and big parts of balloon tangled my chute
[11:01] <michal_f> (after burst)
[11:04] <RocketBoy> michal_f: its difficult to avoid no matter what the configuration - some are better than others - did you use the 1/3 to 2/3 setup?
[11:04] <AndyEsser> http://i.imgur.com/XwCTwM5.jpg
[11:05] <pb0ahx> !flights
[11:05] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: There are no flights currently :(
[11:05] <pb0ahx> ow
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[11:07] <michal_f> RocketBoy: yes I did
[11:07] <michal_f> maybe I just had bad luck with thick patch of latex left
[11:08] <michal_f> this time I'd also like to try using unwinder to help with release, so I'm thinking how to attach that chut
[11:09] <RocketBoy> yeah - it just happens sometimes - the only way to reduce it significatly is a Zero Tension Release (ZTR) - that detaches the balloon and its line when the balloon bursts
[11:09] <michal_f> never heard of ZTR :)
[11:09] <RocketBoy> nor many people fly them - I use them for my bigger flights
[11:10] <RocketBoy> the alternative is to detach before busrt
[11:10] <edmoore> we once flew an electrical ZTR
[11:10] <RocketBoy> cutdown
[11:10] <edmoore> more of a burst detector
[11:11] <RocketBoy> yeah they need to be very fast
[11:11] <edmoore> this one was 0.1s
[11:11] <edmoore> just looked for the magnitude of the gravity vector to be <0.2G for that long
[11:12] <RocketBoy> otherwise the line and balloon elastic fire it toward the parachute/payload
[11:12] <RocketBoy> yep - mine is pyrocutter based
[11:12] <edmoore> yes it was pyro too natch
[11:12] <edmoore> for the reasons you said
[11:12] <michal_f> ok, that's too complicated. I'll count on more luck this time :)
[11:12] <edmoore> and also just pyros
[11:12] <edmoore> i've long been in the pyro camp
[11:12] <RocketBoy> I think thtas what most conclude
[11:14] <RocketBoy> me 2
[11:14] <edmoore> also the pyrotechnic protractors
[11:14] <edmoore> they're great
[11:14] <edmoore> spendy but great
[11:14] <edmoore> and safe legally and actually
[11:20] <RocketBoy> yeah - but spendy as you say - still worth it for a big project
[11:21] <PE2BZ> rpf-c2 is on air, any idea on the payload anyone ?
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[11:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> RPF-C1 is on 434.175 300b 600Hz shift
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[11:28] <junderwood> !dial rpf-c2
[11:28] <SpacenearUS> 03junderwood: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[11:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> RPF-C2 wasn't defined in the previous flight plan so wonder if its LoRa
[11:29] <mfa298> those are going to be some hot payloads, I make that power draw 700W per payload :p
[11:33] <junderwood> !dial rpf-c1
[11:33] <SpacenearUS> 03junderwood: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[11:33] <junderwood> (facepalm)
[11:33] <junderwood> Geoff-G8DHE, give us a clue :)
[11:33] <fsphil> camera's upside down
[11:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> 434.175.435
[11:34] <junderwood> Ta
[11:34] <fsphil> why does that keep happening
[11:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> Can't see RPF-C2 on 70cms at all, C1 is VERY strong with me ;-) so trying 868
[11:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> Argh no aerial on 868 its out in the garage ... idiot!
[11:38] <pb0ahx> is RPF-C1 also in lora ???
[11:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> No normal rtty 300baud 600Hz shift 8n1
[11:39] <pb0ahx> tnx Geoff-G8DHE
[11:39] <pb0ahx> i turn beams to uk now
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[12:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> daveake, Is there any chance of getting the LoRa gateway s/w to send its frequency into habitat same as dl-fldigi, then we could locate these signals in the future!
[12:08] <daveake> Yeah I thought of that. Not hard.
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[12:16] <craag> FYI ex330 multimeter only £40 on amazon prime: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Instruments-EX330-12-Function-Multi-Meter-Non-Contact/dp/B000EX0AE4
[12:17] <craag> err ok, they seem to have got cheaper everywhere :)
[12:17] <SpeedEvil> I bought a new multimeter.
[12:17] <SpeedEvil> It diddn't have a battery. I took it to find a battery in my house, and now I have lost it.
[12:24] <fsphil> that's a good price
[12:25] <Vaizki_> and an ok meter
[12:26] <Vaizki_> does what is says on the tin and it's pretty well constructed and nicely protected, so if you like what's on the tin go for one :)
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[12:27] <pd3jag> how about RPF C@ ????????????????
[12:27] <pd3jag> RPF C2 sorry
[12:28] <pd3jag> FREQ mode etc etc?
[12:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> No info announced so there loss :-(
[12:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> I think LoRa on 868 as there is nothing on 434 at all and they are VERY strong signasl here
[12:29] <pd3jag> Oke tnx strange its up but no info where you can receive it ?
[12:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Can't find a payload doc for it either
[12:32] <pd3jag> okeee tnx om
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[12:32] <pd3jag> 73'good dx with the balloons hihi
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[12:34] <pd3jag> 73'om G8DHE tnx
[12:35] <pb0ahx> pd3jag, it is on 434.175 300bd 600shift
[12:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> thats RPF-C1
[12:35] <pb0ahx> yes
[12:37] <pb0ahx> i turn now the antennes back from sattelite
[12:38] <pb0ahx> he is booming here
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[12:50] Action: Laurenceb_ is trying to recovery a hard drive
[12:50] <Laurenceb_> hitting it with a hammer intermittently fixes it :-/
[12:51] <mattbrejza> whats on there? bitcoin you mined in 2008?
[12:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Strong signal on 869.520MHz looks like LoRa but not decoding ....
[12:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> about 20-25Khz bandwidth
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> just work stuff
[12:52] <mattbrejza> something something backup...
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> ddrescue is running on it, keep getting slow areas
[12:52] <AndyEsser> :P
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> each hammer hit gives me about 1GB @100MB/s
[12:53] <fsphil> I've had ibm drives come back to life if I run them upside down
[12:53] <mattbrejza> find an identical drive, and switch out the platters?
[12:54] <Laurenceb_> heh
[12:54] <Laurenceb_> do files stack up from the bottom in ext4 ?
[12:54] <Laurenceb_> I might already be past the data
[12:55] <Laurenceb_> it's currently having issues trying to replicate the swap :S
[12:59] <craag> tried putting it in the freezer?
[13:03] <Laurenceb_> I'll try one of the file based recovery tools first
[13:03] <Laurenceb_> >90% copied ok so far
[13:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> daveake, Do you have any default parameters for LoRa on the PITS setup, can't see anything on the PITS site th tseems to relate to LoRa ?
[13:07] <G8FJG> ISNT THAT lOrA ON 434.404
[13:07] <G8FJG> sorry caps
[13:08] <G8FJG> yes it is mode1
[13:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> I've been tryiong that but not getting anything
[13:09] <G8FJG> just when it sends steamy windows
[13:10] <G8FJG> decoding ok mode 1 434404 close enough
[13:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes got it had Mode 1 enabled but also another setting present :-(
[13:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> SF was 11 so it overrode it
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[13:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Really do need the freq and mode ideally in the Listner info on the gateway!
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[13:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> So for anyone else LoRa 434.403 20k8, sf6 ec4:5
[13:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> Impicit
[13:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> Implicit even
[13:14] <G8FJG> I've been "tuning" up and down 869 ...for an hr wasting time..
[13:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> I went out and got the aerial in and mounted it, there is a good signal again LoRa like on 869.524 :-(
[13:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> Also the groups need to announce it :-(
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[13:19] <fsphil> that would be nice
[13:21] <Upu> not going to win any awards for images
[13:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> Just started looking at them and came to that conclusion as well :-( Ah C2 92 looks better
[13:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> just started
[13:22] <fsphil> upside down and pointing at the sky
[13:22] <SM0ULC-Reb> Any HABs been using the 6m-band?
[13:23] <fsphil> DL7AD: your payload seems to have found heaven. or the construct from the matrix. http://ssdv.habhub.org/DL4MDW
[13:24] <SM0ULC-Reb> DL7AD: this one running solar?
[13:32] <pb0ahx> the dl4 ballons are only aprs or ??
[13:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> RPF-C2 also seems to be sending occasional packets on a higher freq ? http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2016_Flights/RPF-C1_20160602/Screenshot-2016-06-02-143037.png
[13:33] <fsphil> sneaky
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[13:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> >finally being taught pointers
[13:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> Oh god why
[13:35] <fsphil> Geoff-G8DHE: I think that's the announcement/calling channel
[13:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> Humm those packets seem to be telemetry Ah yes you could be right fsphil!
[13:36] <fsphil> I didn't know it was in use. yay
[13:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> perhaps we should have had the calling channel turned on!
[13:36] <fsphil> Ben-AstroSoc: they're amazing eh
[13:36] <G8FJG> Geoff-G8DHE just seen that hf around 434470 look quite low speed
[13:37] <Ben-AstroSoc> I need him to stop so I can sit down with kernigan and Ritchie
[13:37] <AndyEsser> pointers FTW
[13:37] <fsphil> they really are great
[13:37] <fsphil> you just need to be careful
[13:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> Mode 5 will give it a go
[13:38] <mfa298> I think half the problem with pointers think they're so easy so can't understand why others struggle to learn them.
[13:38] <mfa298> but it can take a while before pointers start to make proper sense when learning
[13:38] <fsphil> you have to think in memory locations
[13:38] <fsphil> it's when you get to pointers to pointers, then you've maybe gone too far
[13:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> That's a thing?
[13:39] <fsphil> oh yes
[13:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> Table.flip()
[13:39] <fsphil> a pointer can point to anything in memory
[13:39] <fsphil> even other pointers
[13:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yea yes using the calling channel!
[13:40] <mfa298> that's sort of what the 'char *argv[]' in you're main functions effectively is (I've seen it written as 'char **argv' as well).
[13:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2016_Flights/RPF-C1_20160602/Capture1.JPG
[13:41] <fsphil> I prefer *argv[]
[13:41] <AndyEsser> I used to always write it as char** argv :P
[13:41] <AndyEsser> now I prefer char* argv[]
[13:41] <AndyEsser> (also, you evil people with your * placement)
[13:42] <mfa298> I've tended to do the **argv (less and easier typing) :P
[13:42] <fsphil> char* a, b;
[13:42] <fsphil> are both pointers?
[13:42] <AndyEsser> o god, don't do that
[13:42] <AndyEsser> I hate same-line declarations
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[13:42] <fsphil> yeah but they can be handy
[13:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh and somewhere then it burst!
[13:43] <AndyEsser> fsphil: in what instance? other than reducing LOCs?
[13:44] <fsphil> int x, y;
[13:44] <fsphil> just looks nicer
[13:44] <AndyEsser> sidenote... why are you declaring variables without values...
[13:45] <fsphil> if I do for(x = 0; ...) there's no point
[13:45] <HABworx> Hi everyone. A question about the accuracy of Spot3 if I may. Once on the ground. the spot often appears to move 50 or so metres and in a recent landing the Spot3 indicated that it was nearly 200m from its original landing point. There was no wind or animals. It was were it landed. Are they really this bad?
[13:45] <fsphil> but yes I can see the advantage of always declaring the value early
[13:46] <AndyEsser> fsphil: for(uint8_t x = 0;...) :P
[13:46] <fsphil> GET OUT
[13:46] <AndyEsser> :)
[13:46] <fsphil> I actually don't mind that, use something similar in C# sometimes
[13:47] <AndyEsser> fsphil: setting a value when you declare, prevents any chance of reading a var that hasn't been assigned
[13:47] <AndyEsser> and with the way I have my compilers set up - it'll throw an error if you do try that
[13:47] <fsphil> HABworx: if it landed at an ackward angle, or there where local obstructions of the sky, the gps position can be fairly inaccurate
[13:47] <fsphil> yeah I have all the warnings turned on
[13:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Umm was there a NOTAm for todays flight ? Can't see anything other than one at Epson racecourse
[13:48] <HABworx> Just finished flight 27 (Uplift-27). I have also been having some poor results in the last weeks with the predictor. 26 would have ended up in a lake if the balloon had not become entangled in the chute. Came down like a brick. Luckily I still have 100% recovery.
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[13:49] <SP2SGF> join #habhub
[13:49] <fsphil> has some fun yesterday when I had the warning for type conversion on, and it was complaining about: char c = 0; c += 'a';
[13:49] <SP2SGF> join #habhub
[13:49] <x-f> /join #habhub
[13:50] <mfa298> Geoff-G8DHE: there looked to be one earlier, I think it was a short window
[13:50] <HABworx> I place the Spot in a half ginble so that it never goes past vertical. The same way that they specify if worn on an arm band.
[13:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup could be
[13:50] <fsphil> HABworx: did you just get the single position? it might have gotten more accurate over time
[13:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> the last one for last week was only 1 or 2 hours
[13:53] <HABworx> Except that the tracks were 5 minutes apart, it looked like someone had picked it up and walked away with it. It was in the one position but reported very different positions for some time. It was an open field that was freshly ploughed so just dirt adn no trees.
[13:53] <AndyEsser> remaining EMF tickets go on sale on the 8th June @ 7pm :)
[13:56] <HABworx> UpLift-27 has been the closest to the road that we have even had. Mind you, were I launch has massively big wheat fields. This was the easiest so far as far as access from the road. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwMc3r53yY4
[13:56] <Ian_> HABworx I don't suppose that it was gusty enough that the parachute might have dragged it in a fierce gust?
[13:56] <DL7AD> fsphil: back
[13:56] <DL7AD> fsphil: i assume the balloon will approach UK this evening
[13:58] <HABworx> <Ian_>, no. Not a breath of wind at ground level. I have used other tracking system before so the spot is new to me as far as these strange occurances.
[14:01] <HABworx> I was disappointed that the NASA balloon was 2km higher than us and actually crossed right over our track during the lasy minutes of our flight before the balloon exploded. The video I posted a bit earlier was the second tracker (APRS).
[14:03] <lz1dev> coincidence that your balloon explodes just as NASA one passes over?
[14:04] <PE2BZ> Does anyone know if DL4MDW-11 does TX every minute or 2 minutes or so ?
[14:05] <DL7AD> PE2BZ: im not sure anymore. but at least every 3 minutes
[14:05] <PE2BZ> Then I will wait some more. Tuned to 144.860 and heard the last part of a packet ;-)
[14:05] <DL7AD> the SSDV pictures are only sent every 15min except if it takes longer than 15min for one image to be sent
[14:05] <DL7AD> PE2BZ: the power seems to be very very low
[14:05] <PE2BZ> How do you receive those images ?
[14:06] <DL7AD> we do SSDV over APRS
[14:06] <PE2BZ> With which software ?
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[14:06] <DL7AD> written by ourself
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[14:06] <HABworx> Not much legal activity in Australia at the moment with the changes to our Civil Aviation interpretationj of the rules. Every balloon is now considered to be an aircraft since the balloon section of the regs failed to excluded the rest of the regs. It legally costs $640 for each flight to get approval and time for CASA to do an analysis of the rick assessment. I have used my money to get an area approval and have done 4 flight
[14:07] <HABworx> Yoyu officially need a risk assessment for even a 20 gram payload. I am about the only person with approvals at the mioment. I am assisting others in Australia, but it is slow and a bit of a nightmare.
[14:07] <DL7AD> PE2BZ: we put a slightly modified SSDV packet into an aprs packet and send it as a special packet which we pick up through the APRS-IS again, decode it, and send it to habhub
[14:08] <DL7AD> we run two servers which can pick up the packets from the APRS-IS
[14:08] <DL7AD> but we only send them at a very slow rate.
[14:08] <craag> So to answer your question I think PE2BZ, you just need to igate it with any standard aprs igate software.
[14:09] <DL7AD> craag: not exactly.
[14:09] <DL7AD> we also do normal rtty ssdv on 144.86mhz
[14:09] <HABworx> UFOs. The NASA balloon made a real scare in the region, being lit up by the sunset and being a large super pressure balloon launched a day and a half earlier from New Zealand. I thought it was my balloon as I could not imagine the coindence, but it was real.
[14:09] <craag> ah ha :)
[14:09] <PE2BZ> DL7AD nice
[14:10] <fsphil> AndyEsser: you going to EMF?
[14:10] <DL7AD> craag PE2BZ APRS+SSDV over APRS on 144.800mhz, resolution QVGA, one packet every 20sec.
[14:10] <fsphil> DL7AD: got a prediction?
[14:10] <AndyEsser> https://twitter.com/GeneFangirl/status/738161470689550336
[14:10] <AndyEsser> whut...
[14:10] <AndyEsser> fsphil: Plan to
[14:10] <PE2BZ> DL7AD my signal was from a strong local at 144.850
[14:10] <AndyEsser> if I get tickets
[14:10] <DL7AD> craag PE2BZ SSDV(RTTY) VGA 600baud, 850hz shift, 8n2
[14:10] <mfa298> hmmm, distance 24.7km, elevation 10.1 degrees,, I wonder how long I can keep getting this one for.
[14:11] <DL7AD> fsphil: no :D havent done yet
[14:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh calling channel worked ok lost the signal and then it retuned and jumped back again nicely! http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2016_Flights/RPF-C1_20160602/Capture2.JPG
[14:12] <craag> AndyEsser: Set an alarm now ;)
[14:12] <PE2BZ> DL7AD Earlier 144.860 was ment as frequency. Is that in use ?
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[14:12] <AndyEsser> craag: already have :P
[14:12] <craag> :D
[14:12] <DL7AD> PE2BZ: yes 144.860mhz
[14:12] <fsphil> I need to start thinking about travel and where to get a tent
[14:13] <DL7AD> i assume the power is very low, while we wrap the the antenna around a GND pin, so it wont fell off. but i think thats not good for the transmission power :/
[14:13] <AndyEsser> fsphil: is it easier for you to get near-ish this part of the country?
[14:13] <AndyEsser> happy to give you a lift down then
[14:13] <AndyEsser> or just going to fly?
[14:14] <fsphil> not sure yet, probably flying
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[14:14] <fsphil> ferries are soooo slow
[14:14] <AndyEsser> no worries - offer is there :)
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[14:14] <fsphil> thanks
[14:16] <fsphil> there'll hopefully be a ukhas 2016 date soon
[14:17] <AndyEsser> indeed
[14:17] <AndyEsser> that reminds me, need to make sure I get my foundation done before then
[14:19] <DL7AD> fsphil: we only fly one qualatex balloon. i think the balloon already flies too high to be true. so i assume there might be a micro leak and it might fall down on evening
[14:19] <fsphil> shame
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[14:20] <craag> Heh, wonder if we could get loseley park registered as an exam centre :P
[14:20] <fsphil> not the best images either, guess it's cloudy over .de today
[14:20] <DL7AD> so maybe someone wants to pick it up and reuse the PCB with my help
[14:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD9FJA-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD9FJA-11
[14:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Nicipad_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Nicipad_chase
[14:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> Time for food me thinks!
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[14:37] <Laurenceb_> spacex stage arriving on webcam
[14:38] <Laurenceb_> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=40393.0;attach=1327925;image
[14:38] <SpeedEvil> yay
[14:38] <Laurenceb_> 3km out
[14:38] <SpeedEvil> nice.
[14:38] <SpeedEvil> I hope they can get it off without issue.
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[14:39] <fsphil> it seems to be leaning a bit, or is that just the angle the barge is at?
[14:39] <AndyEsser> wonky erection
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> it's leaning.
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> It came in a bit hard and bent a leg
[14:39] <fsphil> ooch
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[14:40] <fsphil> would be a shame to lose it now
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> It seems stable.
[14:40] <Laurenceb_> http://www.mybeachcams.com/florida/east-central/
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> It's a shame the port canaverel operator got all kinds of pissy.
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> And stopped pointing the camera at the rocket
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[14:42] <fsphil> did he work for amazon?
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> It was some stupid 'stealing my content' thing - about people linking the direct stream.
[14:43] <fsphil> don't copy that floppy
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[14:45] <Laurenceb_> its on the Cocoa beach south surf cam
[14:45] <Laurenceb_> well - was
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[14:45] <fsphil> I'm happy to setup a webcam there if someone wants to get me over
[14:45] Nick change: _Matthias -> 7GHAA8Z12
[14:45] Nick change: 7GHAA8Z12 -> Matthias
[14:46] <AndyEsser> fsphil: swim
[14:46] <AndyEsser> :P
[14:48] <fsphil> "and he was never seen again"
[14:49] <fsphil> imagine trans-atlantic travel on one of these things. US <> UK in less than an hour
[14:49] <fsphil> just need to make them less explody
[14:51] <Laurenceb_> http://www.gosurfsportswear.com/piercam/pier.html
[14:52] <fsphil> cool
[14:52] <fsphil> still a fair bit out
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[15:03] <Laurenceb_> pilot coming out
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> Climbs on board, climbs on the rocket, fires up and zooms over to shore.
[15:08] <Laurenceb_> http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-80.6/centery:28.4/zoom:14
[15:25] <Laurenceb_> http://www.surfguru.com/florida-surf-reports/cocoa-beach-pier
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[15:27] <Laurenceb_> http://www.surfguru.com/remote-surf-cams/visitspacecoast/cape-canaveral-jetty
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[15:34] <Vaizki_> hearing UBSEDS15 now but very faint
[15:34] <Vaizki_> I am right on the radio horizon
[15:35] <Vaizki_> now I wish I had a habamp..
[15:38] <SM0ULC-Reb> you need bigger antenna ;)
[15:38] <Vaizki_> a 14 element rotating yagi yes
[15:41] <Vaizki_> I have a X50 so not too bad
[15:41] <Vaizki_> people do well on worse...
[15:41] <AndyEsser> I need a Yagi
[15:41] <AndyEsser> rotating one, and a handheld
[15:41] <AndyEsser> and someone to mount all of my antennas
[15:41] <AndyEsser> :)
[15:42] <AndyEsser> somewhere*
[15:46] <fsphil> naah, you need a 5m dish
[15:47] <Vaizki_> I doubt I will get even one decode off this
[15:47] <Vaizki_> it's just teasing me, moving so that I am constantly just beyond the blue circle...
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[15:56] <fsphil> picos do that
[16:00] Nick change: michal_f -> michal_f_wrk
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[16:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KM4KXD-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KM4KXD-11
[16:05] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ForestHAB after 0318 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ForestHAB
[16:05] <arjunnaha> daveake: I keep getting kernel panics through RTTY
[16:06] <Vaizki_> arjunnaha: sounds wild
[16:06] <Vaizki_> and a thunderstorm coming here.. I guess I need to unplug antennas
[16:06] <arjunnaha> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/t4GTt5IE/irccloudcapture-1871881045.jpg
[16:08] Nick change: jan64_ -> jan64
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[16:24] <Vaizki_> arjunnaha: hehe wow
[16:25] <arjunnaha> If I disable the serial console then it doesn't even transmit
[16:25] Action: arjunnaha sighs
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[16:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SR0FLY - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SR0FLY
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[16:55] <Oddstr13> arjunnaha: you're running out of memory on it
[16:55] <Oddstr13> not sure how you managed that tho
[16:56] <arjunnaha> Hmmm, I've restarted it a few times and this has never happened before
[16:56] <russss> no, that's the magic sysrq message
[16:56] <arjunnaha> I'm going to try a spare Pi
[16:56] <russss> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key
[16:57] <russss> but I'd expect that's being printed because your UART Rx pin is floating
[16:58] <russss> I'm not sure why disabling the serial console breaks It
[16:58] <russss> because that's the right thing to do
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[16:59] <mfa298> it sounded like they changed something in the latest raspbian
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[16:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KM6AOX-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KM6AOX-11
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[17:00] <russss> "echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq" should stop it happening
[17:00] <russss> but it doesn't really fix the root cause
[17:01] <arjunnaha> Right, let's boot up this spare Pi and see what happends
[17:01] <arjunnaha> *happens
[17:01] <mfa298> I thought the sysrq was normally turned off (or is that somethign else raspbian does thats odd)
[17:03] <arjunnaha> Still happening
[17:03] <arjunnaha> I'm going out, I'll have a think and be back in a few hours
[17:04] <arjunnaha> Thanks for you help so far
[17:04] <mfa298> hmmm, pi does look to have the sysreq turned on for all commands, so turning if off as russss suggests mighr help
[17:05] <arjunnaha> Will that be OK to just use that command and leave it alone?
[17:05] <mfa298> that will onlt last until reboot
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[17:05] <mfa298> you may also want to write it as 'echo 1 | sudo tee /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq'
[17:06] <mfa298> you can put something suitable in /etc/sysctl.d to have it set on reboot
[17:06] <russss> 0 not 1 :)
[17:07] Action: mfa298 can't read
[17:07] <mfa298> yep 0 would be more useful (it's 1 by default).
[17:08] <russss> arjunnaha: but did you disable the serial console by removing "console=ttyAMA0,115200" from /boot/cmdline.txt?
[17:08] <mfa298> Or choose a suitable bitmask from https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysrq.txt (but if you don't know what sysrq is 0 is the better option)
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[17:14] <arjunnaha> russss: I disabled it through raspi-config
[17:14] <russss> ah ok, well I'd expect that should work, but I don't know how it does it.
[17:17] <mfa298> you can always find out: vi `which raspi-config`
[17:29] <daveake> arjunnaha: If this is Raspbian, updated recently, then serial port usage got broken. Recommendation now is to enable serial in raspi-config, then manually disable getty (login prompt) and kernel use (as suggested above)
[17:30] <russss> I guess if you get a kernel panic in midair you'll at least know why
[17:30] <arjunnaha> Haha
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[17:31] <daveake> My Babbage jump flight did that when the SD card got loosened
[17:31] <arjunnaha> Tad bit nervous, as we're slowing approaching launch day
[17:43] <edmoore> hey, i've done launches where the software writer for that flight declared a 'feature freeze' for the avionics 30 mins after the launch time
[17:44] <edmoore> to then begin testing and tidying up
[17:44] <edmoore> so you've got days to go :)
[17:45] <AndyEsser> ha
[17:45] <AndyEsser> I like that idea
[17:47] <edmoore> if you've anyone giving you a hand with launch, they probably wont
[17:47] <arjunnaha> 3 dates in planned for CAA/weather/school authorisation eventualities
[17:48] <edmoore> that's good planning
[17:48] <edmoore> you shopuld hopefully be fine
[17:48] <edmoore> you're better prepped than most
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[18:14] <Vaizki_> if you do test-driven development, then you're already fully tested when you freeze - right? ;)
[18:15] <AndyEsser> in theory
[18:15] <AndyEsser> ;)
[18:15] <AndyEsser> but TDD only covers unit/integration testing - not UAT stuff
[18:15] <AndyEsser> you can have beautiful code, but if it isn't what you actually want....
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[18:16] <edmoore> i don't think tdd was an available illness back then
[18:17] <AndyEsser> ha
[18:17] <edmoore> jgc did a nice talk on unit testing for hab at a conf a few yrs ago
[18:18] <AndyEsser> my AVR code will be unit and hardware tested
[18:18] <AndyEsser> ideally, I want 100% confidence in my tracker when I launch
[18:18] <AndyEsser> where 100% is more like... anything voer 20% :P
[18:18] <edmoore> well good coverage will help
[18:19] <edmoore> sound design
[18:19] <edmoore> take advantage of all the free pcb layout reviewing people do here
[18:19] <edmoore> it's a good thing
[18:19] <AndyEsser> Yea will do :)
[18:19] <AndyEsser> the PCB layout stuff is the only bit I'm concerned about
[18:20] <edmoore> you'll be fine - you've done it before, and there's loads of good feedback to be had here
[18:20] <AndyEsser> 15 years ago :P
[18:20] <edmoore> http://gerblook.org/
[18:20] <edmoore> v useful for sharing layouts
[18:20] <AndyEsser> yea
[18:20] <edmoore> stuff you learn at 15 is what stays in!
[18:21] <AndyEsser> edmoore: had an amusing moment the other day
[18:21] <AndyEsser> edmoore: remember I 'designed' an air-breathing rocket which could change between atmospheric air and on-board?
[18:21] <edmoore> with 30m^3 of water?
[18:22] <AndyEsser> no, that was the spaceplane!
[18:22] <AndyEsser> this was specific engine :)
[18:22] <edmoore> hmm i don't remember the engine
[18:22] <AndyEsser> ah fair enough
[18:22] <AndyEsser> I called it Dragon
[18:22] <AndyEsser> thought it was amusing that Skylon has an air-breathing engine
[18:22] <AndyEsser> and SpaceX capsule called Dragon
[18:22] <edmoore> a premonition maybe
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[18:23] <AndyEsser> ha
[18:23] <edmoore> i actually emailed reaction engines for work experience
[18:23] <edmoore> in lower fifth
[18:23] <AndyEsser> O yea?
[18:23] <edmoore> i remembered recently
[18:23] <edmoore> didn't hear anything back
[18:23] <AndyEsser> guessing they said no?
[18:23] <AndyEsser> ah
[18:23] <AndyEsser> should bring it up with them
[18:23] <AndyEsser> "I could've started my work 15 years earlier!"
[18:24] <AndyEsser> hmm, been 2 weeks since I emailed the Uni about workshop space
[18:24] <AndyEsser> the commercial space near my house is full
[18:24] <AndyEsser> :(
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[18:27] <edmoore> put the money towards a psu :)
[18:27] <edmoore> the world is your mollusc with a scope and a psu
[18:30] <AndyEsser> PSU is happening regardless :P
[18:30] <AndyEsser> I would very much like one of these... https://youtu.be/8ebCItx4Ifs
[18:31] <edmoore> they're who we've used
[18:31] <edmoore> commercially
[18:31] <edmoore> for some stainless and inconel printed parts
[18:31] <AndyEsser> recomended then?
[18:32] <edmoore> if it's not your money, yes
[18:32] <AndyEsser> heh
[18:33] <edmoore> but it's in now way a hobby-friendly outfit
[18:33] <edmoore> no*
[18:33] <AndyEsser> Yea, I didn't expect it'd be cheap
[18:33] <AndyEsser> s/cheap/low-cost
[18:33] <AndyEsser> :P
[18:38] <edmoore> lots of rocket people are excited by 3d printing
[18:38] <edmoore> internal geometries for cooling and so on have always been a challenge to make conventionally
[18:40] <AndyEsser> remember seeing in a spacex video that they use a lot of 3d printing
[18:40] <AndyEsser> I was going to ask you about cooling
[18:41] <AndyEsser> easy enough to make a combustion chamber out of copper
[18:41] <AndyEsser> likewise with nozzle
[18:41] <AndyEsser> but then you could either put a 2nd layer in, and pump coolant in the space, but that'll lead to hot spots
[18:41] <AndyEsser> you could channels, but that makes machining very difficult
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[18:44] <edmoore> yes the channels can be hard to machine
[18:44] <edmoore> well, easyish actually
[18:44] <edmoore> but then closing them into channels is harder
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[19:19] Action: Oddstr13 spams a little;
[19:19] <Oddstr13> Could I borrow a second pair of eyes here? Anything obvious I've messed up? Cube_1in9_ESP-12EF_RFM69_v0-1dee12e90aa5_gerber.zip http://gerblook.org/pcb/3ZvGtKXYHxqFE2KoqGZb4Z
[19:23] <edmoore> Oddstr13: is the c3 label covering a via?
[19:23] <edmoore> otherwise that looks like an island of gnd
[19:23] <edmoore> oh i can see on drills that it is
[19:23] <edmoore> that's ok then
[19:23] <edmoore> thought you might have an orphan ground
[19:24] <Oddstr13> yea, that one is fine
[19:24] <Oddstr13> no stitching tho, cause i've found that to be a pain in the current version of KiCad
[19:25] <Oddstr13> DRC isn't reporting anything, but I could still have made some rather obvious mistake
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[19:28] <Oddstr13> I've got a ATmega328PB version of the board too, gona look it over & bother you guys some with that too :P
[19:29] <Oddstr13> https://bitbucket.org/account/user/openshell/projects/C19 if you want to have a closer look at the rest of the project
[19:29] <Oddstr13> still havn't pushed the proto boards I see
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[20:23] <Oddstr13> Could probably do with some silkscreen adjustments, but other than that? Cube_1in9_ATmega328PB_RFM69_v0-8359d20d497b_gerber.zip http://gerblook.org/pcb/rciJioFG5KN9q6HvUPJG47
[20:26] <AndyEsser> what's U3?
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[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> ublox maybe?
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[20:59] <fsphil> it's an rfm of some kind
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:00] <fsphil> nice board, should be pretty useful
[21:02] <fsphil> dunno why but putting vias inside smd pads seems bad. but I can't say why
[21:03] <russss> they suck the solder up
[21:04] <russss> so increased risk of tombstoning and bad joints
[21:04] <fsphil> Oddstr13: what's R3 up to?
[21:05] <AndyEsser> resisting
[21:05] <Oddstr13> ah, sorry, wasn't paying attention to irc
[21:05] <Oddstr13> on the avr board?
[21:05] <AndyEsser> this a 50x50 board?
[21:05] <russss> that looks like 0805 to me so you probably won't get tombstoning but I made some PCBs with a via on a pad once and I felt compelled to manually touch up the solder on that pad as it was a bit lacking
[21:05] <fsphil> yeah
[21:06] <Oddstr13> pull-up on rfm chipselect
[21:06] <AndyEsser> is it not going down to ground?
[21:07] <Oddstr13> cs is active-low
[21:07] <fsphil> that's going to your vreg output from the looks of it
[21:08] <fsphil> oh there's another via there
[21:08] <fsphil> greblook hid that quite well
[21:09] <fsphil> going to PB1
[21:09] <Oddstr13> yep
[21:09] <Oddstr13> PB0 actually
[21:10] <fsphil> yes. I really do need new eyes
[21:11] <Oddstr13> PB1 is reset, with a pull-down at R2
[21:11] <Oddstr13> helps with the labeled traces in KiCad, trust me :P
[21:12] <Oddstr13> AndyEsser: U3 would be the RFM69 btw
[21:12] <Vaizki_> bye bye UBSEDS15.. didn't get a single decode :)
[21:12] <fsphil> nitpicking, the traces going to PB6+7 could be brought up beside the other traces
[21:12] <AndyEsser> ta
[21:14] <Oddstr13> I put it next to the 3v line, but, yea, probably
[21:15] <fsphil> yeah, if the 3.3v line was brought up too you could get rid of that empty gap. but none of this really matters
[21:15] <fsphil> I probably spent as much time lining stuff up on my board as actually getting it functional
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[21:15] <fsphil> so ignore me :)
[21:16] <Vaizki_> nothing wrong with that.. *krhm*
[21:17] <Oddstr13> hey, I used more time procrastinating before routing, than the whole project so far.
[21:17] <Oddstr13> also used a few hours on tweaking silkscrean on the ESP-12 board.
[21:18] <Oddstr13> as to moving the 3v line, I'd rather not right now, as that would require poking around some vias
[21:19] <Oddstr13> and, if KiCad didn't destroy my floating GND vias on DRC, I'd stitch the ground planes too.
[21:20] <fsphil> there is one fatal flaw. no LEDs
[21:20] <Oddstr13> not gona do that if i'm required to keep random ground traces around
[21:20] <Oddstr13> do I really need LEDs?
[21:20] <fsphil> everything is better with LEDs
[21:20] <Oddstr13> not power usage
[21:21] <Oddstr13> unless more is better :P
[21:21] <AndyEsser> don't have to power the LEDs
[21:21] <AndyEsser> but good for debug :)
[21:21] <fsphil> although with so many headers, you can just attach one for debugging
[21:21] <Oddstr13> true, but so is a multimeter :P
[21:21] <Vaizki_> near C3 you could remove a vias and routing on the back by moving the two vias next to the "3" up so that the horizontal trace can run through
[21:22] <Vaizki_> but naah it's only one trace..
[21:23] <russss> if you just do minimal flash codes with LEDs they basically use no power
[21:23] <Oddstr13> true
[21:23] <russss> a 5ms blink or two every 20 seconds
[21:24] <Oddstr13> that ties up a IO I could use for sensors tho
[21:24] <AndyEsser> use a bus for sensors :)
[21:24] <russss> the perennial not-enough-IO problem
[21:24] <Oddstr13> but I could consider putting in the footprints if I find an appropriate spot
[21:24] <DL7AD> could anybody run a hysplit for DL4MDW-11
[21:25] <Oddstr13> I guess there could be space next to C6
[21:25] <AndyEsser> anyway - beddy by times
[21:25] <AndyEsser> night all
[21:25] <Oddstr13> night AndyEsser
[21:25] <fsphil> oooh still flying. nice DL7AD
[21:26] <fsphil> don't let the bed bugs bite. set gdb on them
[21:26] <Oddstr13> actually, can I get a interrupt on any pin change in the AVR, or is it just the specific interrupt pins?
[21:26] <mfa298> I quite like having an LED blinking at a regular interval (even with a short on time) as it helps show the thing is still running and can help spot odd timing issues.
[21:27] <mfa298> I think all the pins support PCINT, but you then need to query which pin changed, INT0,INT1 are linked to specific pins
[21:27] <Oddstr13> mfa298: yea, I guess, I actually do kinda find myself wishing I had a LED on my OSb0 node
[21:27] <Oddstr13> I might want to not tie up INT0 and INT1 for the RFM then
[21:28] <mfa298> the blinking led helped me spot I had some extra sleeps when I noticed the blink was less often than it should be
[21:28] <Oddstr13> as those would be more benificial to the wind and rain sensors
[21:28] <Vaizki_> Oddstr13: by routing the thick 3.3V above the C6 pad, you could extend the groundplane under the RFM chip nicely :)
[21:28] <Vaizki_> or rotating C6 or something..
[21:28] <Oddstr13> Vaizki_: that is a very good point
[21:29] <mfa298> int0/int1 probably make sense for things that happen a lot / need stricter timing.
[21:30] <mfa298> I think with PCINT you'll get an interrupt that says it was PORTB (or A/C/D /...), you then need to see which of the 8 pins in that port changed
[21:30] <Oddstr13> yea, the rfm dosn't need strict timing on those interrupts, atleast not in this particular application
[21:31] <Oddstr13> that's like two operations tho
[21:31] <Vaizki_> Oddstr13, same can of course be done by making a bunch of ground vias under the RFM
[21:31] <Oddstr13> Vaizki_: yea, I'm aware
[21:32] <Oddstr13> but KiCad has a quirk/bug where it disassociates loose vias from it's net when running DRC
[21:32] <Vaizki_> hmmh?
[21:32] <Oddstr13> and I'd rather not have invisible ground traces all over the place for furter routing
[21:34] <DL7AD> fsphil: yes and its transmitting pictures which nobody receives :(
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[21:38] <Oddstr13> Vaizki_: http://im.dbq.no/image/7e6/5eb575e6/kicad_drc_via_bug.png
[21:39] <russss> that's not a bug, that's a "feature"
[21:39] <Oddstr13> I belive it was russss that said he was also familiar with this particular "feature" a while back
[21:39] <russss> you have to attach those vias to a net
[21:39] <Oddstr13> it is.
[21:39] <Oddstr13> it's attached to the goddamn ground pour.
[21:40] <russss> nah it's not, because the ground pour is not actually a thing from kicad's perspective
[21:40] <russss> it is something which happens in the absence of things which are not on the GND net
[21:40] <russss> so anyway, you have to run a track from those vias to a ground pad
[21:40] <Oddstr13> I've got two options: not doing ground stitching, or never touching DRC
[21:41] <Oddstr13> russss: yea, invisible tracks all over the place. no thanks
[21:41] <russss> "not doing DRC" is probably not a good option. DRC is just one of the things which triggers a repour
[21:41] <russss> I think there might be a third option
[21:42] <Oddstr13> I do a manual repour by hitting b after moving something, more often than not
[21:42] <Oddstr13> it's not the repour that is the problem, that is how I got screenshot number two
[21:43] <russss> yeah I dunno, there doesn't seem to be a third option
[21:43] <Oddstr13> DRC is doing something that disassociates those vias from the ground net
[21:43] <russss> it's infuriating, I agree
[21:43] <Oddstr13> no idea what, but it's not the repour
[21:43] <Oddstr13> it's something it does before that
[21:44] <russss> yeah I think the fact that it works is just an accident
[21:45] <russss> oh yeah. The third way is to create a footprint which has only a via in it
[21:45] <russss> and then I think you can assign that via to the GND net explicitly
[21:45] <Oddstr13> so, conclusion is; won't do ground stitching, unless there is a very strong case to do so
[21:46] <Oddstr13> well, then you would have a lot of footprints floating around that don't have a part in the schematic, and are not in the netlist
[21:46] <russss> Oddstr13: btw, if I trigger a repour with "b" it does isolate those vias
[21:47] <Oddstr13> dosn't for me
[21:47] <russss> weird, I'm on version 4.0.2
[21:47] <Oddstr13> copy an existing via that is connected to a ground pad with ctrl+d, and drop it somewhere else, hit b a few times
[21:48] <russss> ah ok
[21:48] <Oddstr13> 4.0.2-stable
[21:48] <russss> I didn't know that trick
[21:48] <russss> but it clearly doesn't 100% work
[21:48] <Oddstr13> DRC kills that tho
[21:49] <russss> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/999057
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[21:56] <Oddstr13> 2012 q_q
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[22:06] <Laurenceb_> any gurus here know how to fix partition tables ? Gparted is giving me "invalid partition table signature 0"
[22:06] Action: Laurenceb_ is a n00b at this stuff
[22:13] <Oddstr13> lemme guess, RPI SD card?
[22:15] <Laurenceb_> no, SATA drives
[22:15] <Laurenceb_> I tried to clone a drive
[22:16] <AndyEsser> o0o free ticket to EMF if you volunteer as a first aider...
[22:16] <Oddstr13> Laurenceb_: there is some software that can help recover partitions, I don't remember the name however
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> I can see the partitions
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> although the swap is missing
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> but the drive cuses kernel panic and Gparted wont edit it
[22:18] <mfa298> is this your unhappy drive you're trying to fix the partition table on ?
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> yes
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> no this is a clone of it
[22:19] <mfa298> what size is the original drive and the clone drive ?
[22:19] <Oddstr13> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> mfa298: orig 320G, new 500
[22:19] <Oddstr13> I belive this is what I used at work some years back to recover some data
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> I only have a live CD
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> guess I could make a special disc for recovery lol
[22:20] <mfa298> I'd probably go for putting a new OS on the new drive and then inspect the data you want to keep to see if it's decent.
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> well atm the new drive is usless
[22:21] <mfa298> I wouldn't trust what's been cloned to necessarily be good.
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> as I cant edit anything on it with Gparted
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> maybe I should just pay someone to fix this shit lol
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> if there was just a hex editor to edit partition tables...
[22:22] <Oddstr13> in how bad of a shape is the old disk?
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> dont know, it passed SMART at first
[22:23] <mfa298> I think this is probably something where you need someone that knows what they're doing sat in front of the system to try and recover what they can.
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> then SMART said some remapped sectors on the next attempt
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> so I used ddrescue to recover
[22:23] <Oddstr13> try running ddrescue a few more times?
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[22:24] <mfa298> SMART won't always show errors until the disk is actually dead. Some of its tests are opertunistic and/or only cover small parts of the drive at a time.
[22:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03F6AGV - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=F6AGV
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> ddrescue was horribly slow once it got to swap
[22:25] <Oddstr13> you might want to have a look at the SMART after the ddrescue run
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> so I never recovered the full swap
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> ah I've removed the drive now
[22:25] <Oddstr13> I'm guessing errors shot thru the rooff
[22:25] <mfa298> those re-mapped sectors could mean lost data (depending on whether they were detected on read or write)
[22:26] <Oddstr13> as the drive actually attempted to read all the data
[22:26] <Oddstr13> loosing swap isn't a problem
[22:26] <boutatrain> Who can authorise a payload document?
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> well on the last run I ran ddrescue with -r 1 (retry to read data)
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> and it didnt access the drive until it got past the start of the swap
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> so I presumed it had grabbed all the data
[22:27] <Oddstr13> swap is just backup RAM, basically
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> there is an alignment issue, the sector size has changed
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> not sure how much that has to do with it
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> 512byte to 4k
[22:28] <mfa298> boutatrain: payload docs don't need authorising, When you've got a flight doc they do need authorizing and it's best to ask in #habhub
[22:29] <mfa298> Laurenceb_: the aligment stuff is abotu getting best performance out of the drive.
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> ok
[22:29] <boutatrain> thanks mfa298 :)
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> I'm perplexed then
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> I might be able to do a file based copy
[22:30] <Oddstr13> I'd suggest having a go with TestDisk
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> bis that windows only?
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> *s
[22:30] <Oddstr13> more multiplatform than most it seems
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> ok
[22:31] <mfa298> Laurenceb_: how important is the data on this disk, is it stuff that you really can't lose ?
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> yes
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> its a work server
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> there are backups but its kind of important as the backup system is a mess :S
[22:31] <Oddstr13> know that feel
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> one day i'll get it running properly...
[22:31] <Oddstr13> I really need to set myself up a proper backup system.
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> I can restore specific projects but not guarentee _everything_
[22:32] <mfa298> if it's that important it's probably best to not do too much (you could make it worse) and talk to a data recovery expert
[22:32] <Oddstr13> but we all know that won't happed untill after I've lost half my pictures & code
[22:32] <mfa298> and the recovery expert might not be able to get everythign back
[22:32] <Oddstr13> mfa298: well, he's got a ddrescue clone here now, I'd say clone that again, and do whatever
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> well I'll probably stick a clone task as an overnight job in future
[22:34] <mfa298> I'm just thinking that if it's a case of the heads hitting the platters, doing anything with the dead disk could make it worse and decrease the chances of recovery (even by an expert)
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> just clone everything
[22:34] <Oddstr13> but, depending on the value of the data on the disk, it might be best to just send the disk to the real recovery experts
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> mfa298: i suspect it was, turning drive upside down and hitting it with a mallet helped a lot (lol)
[22:34] <Oddstr13> ...*whimper*
[22:34] <mfa298> and might have done more damage
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> tried that on the last ddrescue run
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> increased read rate massivly
[22:35] <mfa298> the question to ask is how do you know that the data you got off is actually useful data rather than a load of garbage
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> I'll mount it and see
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[22:36] <Oddstr13> reminds me of a certain 4chan thread that involved "dad's harddrive" and big rare earth magnets.
[22:36] <Oddstr13> hitting it with a mallet *WILL* kill data.
[22:36] <Oddstr13> I guarantee it.
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> I wonder if it disloged detritis on the disc surface
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> well it mounts and all the data I can think of is there
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> the error is weird....
[22:38] <mfa298> When a drive fails the *first* question you should probably ask is what the value of the data is and compare that to the cost of recovery. Extra damage (by hitting it) could make expert recovery harder and so more expensive
[22:39] <mfa298> the next questions to ask are why don't you have raid (ideally raid10 or raid6) and good backups.
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> yeah I'll invest in a raid system for the server
[22:39] <mfa298> and by good backups that means backups that are regularly tested to ensure you're getting something you can recover
[22:41] Nick change: Oddstr13 -> Oddstr23
[22:41] <mfa298> Then for a fileserver you should start asking why you're not running a decent filesystem with checksuming etc. (although doing that sensibly might mean moving away from linux)
[22:43] <fsphil> raid might cause more problems that it solves
[22:43] <fsphil> than*
[22:43] <Oddstr23> I was looking at ZFS, but the fact that if you accidentally added a single drive (without raid) to the volume would screw you over turned me off
[22:44] <Oddstr23> also the lack of recovery options if the array fails
[22:45] <Oddstr23> if ZFS fails, your data is gone. if ext4 fails? you're in luck, there's plenty of options out there for recovering atleast *some* of the data
[22:46] <Oddstr23> for raid, just mirroring the disks sounds good
[22:46] <mfa298> I'm not sure ZFS will let you add a vdev that's not of the same configuration as the others to a zpool. And there's a few ways to get a zpool back up.
[22:47] <mfa298> maybe the ZFSoL is missing a load of things that's in the proper ZFS implimentations (hence why I said you'd want to move away from linux)
[22:49] <mfa298> ZFS recovery is usually much faster than normal raid (as you only need to look at actual data) and the checksums should show you faults much earlier (including the silent corruption ext4 won't be able to detect happening)
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[22:50] <Oddstr23> yea, I'm aware
[22:50] <Oddstr23> but if a tiny bit of human error will jinx it all in a second, I'd rather take my chances with silent corruption
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[22:51] <Oddstr23> file checksums would allow you, or a script ran regularly to detect silent corruption
[22:51] <mfa298> I've not found anything on zfs that lets you break it with a small bit of human error.
[22:52] <mfa298> although mdadm is fairly easy to break with a small mistake
[22:54] <mfa298> but I've only used ZFS on operating systems where it's natively supported in the kernel (Mostly Solaris/SmartOS but a bit of FreeBSD as well)
[22:55] <Oddstr23> I was looking at FreeNAS a copule of months back
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[22:59] <Oddstr23> from memory, I belive it allows adding a striped array to a volume consisting of Z3 arrays, after the fact, and that the action is irreversable
[22:59] <Oddstr23> essentially destroying any redundancy in a hartbeat
[23:01] <Oddstr23> anyways, I might have another look at it later some time
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[23:07] <mfa298> I don't have anything to test that on safely at the moment. I've certainly seen it throw errors when creating a pool where things don't match
[23:08] <mfa298> but then I was creatign a pool with three lots of raidz3 each with 14 drives in it (and a few similar permutations).
[23:10] <mfa298> Solaris man page seems to suggest that mixing redundant and non-redundant storage in a pool will throw and error on create unless you add a flag to force it (I'd have thought add would do the same)
[23:10] <mfa298> It could be the freenas webui is always adding the force flag to let you do dangerous things.
[23:10] <Oddstr23> well, I'm sure the GUI would atleast try to prevent it, but it is possible
[23:12] <Oddstr23> pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere in here; http://doc.freenas.org/9.3/freenas_storage.html
[23:12] <mfa298> I think I looked at freenas once a few years ago and didn't like the look of what it was doing at the time. It seemed to hide some of what zfs can do. Hopefully it's improved since then.
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[23:17] <mfa298> http://doc.freenas.org/9.3/freenas_storage.html#extending-a-zfs-volume seems to suugest that extending requires the new vdev to match the existing ones
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[00:00] --- Fri Jun 3 2016