highaltitude.log.20160601

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[01:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03default_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=default_chase
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[04:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VE6LAU-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE6LAU-11
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[07:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 0382301356549_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=82301356549_chase
[07:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03+6282301356549_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=%2B6282301356549_chase
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[09:28] <AndyEsser> https://twitter.com/LeadHyperion/status/737938693445570560/photo/1
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[09:28] <AndyEsser> Woo
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[09:44] <R6mco> SA6BSS-Mike: I got him!!
[09:44] <R6mco> 2016-06-01 00:30 VK9WI 10.140257 -25 1 CD07 0.5 PA3FYM2 JO22nf 17608 76
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[10:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03W7QO-9 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W7QO-9
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[10:33] <edmoore> the first three will do a lot more for your engineering than the last one, which is probably guff like all NYT bestsellers
[10:33] <edmoore> i mean i hope you enjoy it and all
[10:34] <AndyEsser> edmoore: for me?
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[10:35] <edmoore> yes
[10:37] <edmoore> i would basically say do as much calculus as you can so it just makes sense intuitively. Everything else (in a lot of engineering fields) is pretty obvious once you've got calculus in your fingers
[10:37] <AndyEsser> Well the first 3 are for the engineer - the last is for entertainment
[10:38] <AndyEsser> edmoore: yea, all the stuff I'm looking at uses large amounts of integration, which I can't remember sod all of - so going right back to basics to try and get a good understanding again
[10:38] <fsphil> spoiler: he's rich
[10:38] <edmoore> yeah that's a really good idea
[10:38] <edmoore> also ask here
[10:39] <AndyEsser> will do - but 1) don't want to flood the channel with noise 2) keep bugging people :P
[10:39] <edmoore> it all works together
[10:40] <edmoore> get the notation and basics in and then shout and i'll, for example, help you write a rocket flight simulator in python
[10:40] <AndyEsser> if someone had said when I Was doing A Level maths that I'd need it for Rockets + and Balloons and what not - I probably would've paid more attention :P
[10:40] <AndyEsser> edmoore: cheers
[10:40] <edmoore> in helping a few people with this i've definitely found writing some code to do numerical integration really helps grok the symbolic integration and vice versa
[10:41] <edmoore> infact writing code to do anything usually reveals to you what you don't understand
[10:41] <edmoore> because there's nowehere to hide with code
[10:41] <AndyEsser> Yea, only so many test questions you can do before realising an actual "real world" application probably best way to learn and check you understand
[10:42] <edmoore> if you ever become a ninja (or want to become a ninja) there is SICM lurking in the wings
[10:42] <edmoore> learning all of classical mechanics with Scheme
[10:42] <AndyEsser> I don't have the physique to be a ninja
[10:42] <AndyEsser> ;)
[10:43] <gonzo__> I could pass for turtle though
[10:43] <edmoore> i would love to have a go at SICM one day but i doubt i will
[10:43] <edmoore> it looks like a life experience
[10:44] <AndyEsser> from the wiki page "Classical mechanics is deceptively simple"
[10:44] <AndyEsser> ha!
[10:44] <edmoore> actually it introduced me to autodifferentiation which is so clever i danced around the room a little
[10:44] <edmoore> and you will too probably once you grok calculus
[10:44] <edmoore> and then have writing some of your own code to do it numerically
[10:45] <AndyEsser> I have a great mental image now :)
[10:45] <AndyEsser> Thanks - will let you know how I get on
[10:45] <AndyEsser> and come crawling to you for help
[10:45] <edmoore> and then get introduced to this Third Way of doing calculus on computers - not symbolic and not numerical either
[10:45] <edmoore> it made me excited about computer science
[10:47] <edmoore> and also lisp
[10:50] <AndyEsser> stupid sodding internet connection...
[10:50] <edmoore> i really really should finish sicp actually
[10:50] <fsphil> ssssh, don't insult the internet
[10:50] <edmoore> the first 2 chapters were great and the final two promised a lot
[10:50] <AndyEsser> fsphil: was the connection - not the internet :P
[10:51] <AndyEsser> 72% packet loss
[10:51] <AndyEsser> fun times
[10:51] <fsphil> yeah not good
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[10:59] <AndyEsser> eurgh, phone interview at 1 :(
[10:59] <AndyEsser> I hate phone interviews
[11:00] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VE2WMG-11 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE2WMG-11
[11:02] <number10> interviewee or interviewer ?
[11:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VEGA2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VEGA2
[11:07] <AndyEsser> interviewee
[11:08] <edmoore> for what are you interviewing?
[11:09] <AndyEsser> contract job at a software company not far from Manchester
[11:10] <edmoore> cool
[11:10] <AndyEsser> been wanting to get into freelance/contracting for years, but never taken the leap - and it's on stupid money as well
[11:10] <AndyEsser> so will mean more money for toys :)
[11:10] <AndyEsser> like the bench PSU I want
[11:11] <Vaizki_> stupid money that needs to be stashed away to pay for life while you look for a new gig later :)
[11:12] <Vaizki_> and second hand bench psus are very affordable, at least here
[11:12] <Vaizki_> I haven't bought them new because they seem silly expensive
[11:13] <AndyEsser> Vaizki_: I have a large enough network here of other contractors who are never out of work and always looking for other
[11:13] <AndyEsser> none of them have been without a contract for more than a week at a time
[11:13] <Vaizki_> right
[11:13] <Vaizki_> well then it's really a nobrainer, isn't it? :)
[11:14] <AndyEsser> but the inherent risk of being freelance/contractor is something I've juggled with
[11:14] <AndyEsser> and why they typically can ask for more money
[11:14] <AndyEsser> will just have to see how it goes
[11:14] <AndyEsser> *fingers crossed*
[11:14] <Vaizki_> well having been an entrepreneur since 1991 .. go for it
[11:15] <Vaizki_> for "normal employees" there are so many direct and hidden costs that they can afford to pay a consultant those fees
[11:19] <AndyEsser> Yea - most employees aren't aware of the time taken to process payroll, or the fact that employers pay NI as well - etc
[11:20] <Vaizki_> not to mention the cost of getting rid of people
[11:20] <AndyEsser> once you add those onto a salary and things - it's understandable why contractors can ask for what they do
[11:20] <Vaizki_> or paying their salaries while they're sick
[11:20] <AndyEsser> And the flexibility from a company POV of just terminating contracts
[11:20] <AndyEsser> rather than the non-sense of tribunals, or correct process etc
[11:20] <Vaizki_> and lawyers and unions ...
[11:20] <Vaizki_> it's not just direct cost but bad blood in the company + time from management
[11:20] <Vaizki_> adds up
[11:21] <Vaizki_> also paid vacations, health benefits etc
[11:21] <Vaizki_> this is making me want to fire everyone here
[11:21] <AndyEsser> :P
[11:22] <Vaizki_> not really. of course I love our employees!
[11:30] <mfa298> I saw a good explanation of the what does it cost to employ someone a few years ago when someone was asking why the organisation was spending £30k on a product when he could set up something similar for free.
[11:30] <mfa298> summary "free" when you took into account his time, and cover and the costs of all that was also something similar
[11:34] <number10> from an old antenna book http://imgur.com/L7N9Z06
[11:34] <gonzo__> it comes out of someone else's budget
[11:36] <gonzo__> some antannas are very stupid
[11:37] <AndyEsser> mfa298: for projects that I've done (game engine stuff) I always used to keep track of the hours myself and my business partner did - and assigned an hourly value based on a £30k salary - so whilst it wasn't directly 'costing' us that money
[11:37] <AndyEsser> if the game ever made money, that needed to be paid back, and therefore affected the point we would've made profit etc
[11:37] <AndyEsser> I'm amazed by the number of indie game developers who don't get this point
[11:37] <AndyEsser> "But my time is free"
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[11:39] <x-f> number10 :))
[11:40] <mfa298> I think the quick white board calc that I saw done said it costs something like 50% of the salary to emply someone (to cover NI, pensions, office space etc) (so to pay 30K costs more like 45K).
[11:41] <mfa298> and of course it's usually differnt pots of money
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[11:42] <AndyEsser> yea
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[11:54] <gonzo__> I used to use wage x3 as the actual costs for an eng. Once you factor all the overheads, including all the other people in the org, buildings, etc
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[11:55] <gonzo__> that was for charging out. Assuming they are not also charging to a project
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[11:58] <iclibmsentinel> hello
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[12:02] <PE2BZ> !flights
[12:02] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03Cranmere Test 2 10(e53a)
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[12:10] <SM0ULC-Reb> Nice height for VE6LAU
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[13:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AB5SS-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AB5SS-12
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[13:48] <habenthusiast> hi, im planning to launch a hab from Cambridge and was wondering how I can use the habhub tracker to track my specific payload
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> http://xkcd.com/1688/large/ - if trying to date a map you want to use for HAB
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> habenthusiast: In short - you get appropriate approval from the CAA if appropriate.
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> habenthusiast: then you simply upload a simple definition file which allows the tracker to auto-recieve it
[13:50] <AndyEsser> habenthusiast: https://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[13:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> From where abouts in Cambridge are you thinking of launching ?
[13:55] <fsphil> everyone's welcome to use the tracker, just need to make sure it all works well in advance :)
[13:58] <habenthusiast> Launching from a cambridge university site which already has CAA approval
[13:59] <adamgreig> have you spoken to the cambridge university site people to see if you can launch?
[13:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah right so your already in touch with them then, not sure who is currently there at present but the above link is a good starting point
[14:01] <habenthusiast> yes thats correct
[14:03] <adamgreig> what payload do you have?
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[14:05] <habenthusiast> raspberry pi A+ with PITS tracker
[14:06] <adamgreig> the PITS documentation has a quite complete and thorough guide on getting set up to use the tracker
[14:06] <adamgreig> so probably best go with that
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[14:07] <adamgreig> when are you launching / who're you launching with?
[14:08] <habenthusiast> I've set up the PITS tracker and decoded both text and image packets, my worry is losing LOS and not having data
[14:10] <adamgreig> the gist is you create a "payload document" describing your payload (telemetry format, frequency, etc), and a "flight document" describing your flight (name, date, location, etc), and get the latter approved, and then usually email the mailing list with details the day before or so
[14:10] <adamgreig> and then people can easily help track it from around the country
[14:10] <mfa298> habenthusiast: as long as it's working and you've announced the flight details there'll probably be a few tracking from their homes. But you need to be able to track as well for once its landed
[14:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Whilst your only testing you only need the Payload document, closer to launch you create the Flight Document
[14:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Have you already found this link http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/index.php?id=getting-on-the-map
[14:13] <habenthusiast> I see, thank you. That is what I was unsure of
[14:14] <adamgreig> habenthusiast: are you with the ICL lot?
[14:16] <mfa298> habenthusiast: the other thing that can be worthwhile is trying to track other peoples balloons as that gives you experience of using the radio/sdr and dl-fldigi
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[14:21] <habenthusiast> Good advice thank you
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[16:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-N2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-N2
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[17:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ForestHAB - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ForestHAB
[17:17] <arjunnaha> Do these figures seem right for the tracker? http://tracker.habhub.org/#!mt=roadmap&mz=11&qm=All&f=ForestHAB&q=ForestHAB
[17:20] <daveake> no
[17:20] <arjunnaha> I've got them in the wrong order, sigh
[17:21] <daveake> please review the documentation and compare what it says with what your (incorrect) payload doc says
[17:21] <daveake> I think it's closer than the previous doc, so that's good :)
[17:21] <arjunnaha> Yes, as least it's appearing on the map now
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[17:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03jorge_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=jorge_chase
[17:57] <arjunnaha> daveake: Is there anyway to make the BMP180 to only provide a humidity and not temperature as I've also got a DS18B20 attached
[17:58] <arjunnaha> When removed it seems to make no difference
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[18:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> I thought the BMP180 was a pressure sensor, whilst the DS18B20 is temperature ?
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[18:16] <arjunnaha> What what I am aware the BMP180 also has a temperature sensor
[18:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Ah yes temperature is included for correcting the reading
[18:26] <arjunnaha> I think the pressure is being output in hPa otherwise the value doesn't make sense
[18:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> What does thedatasheet say ?
[18:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> "or
[18:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> calculating temperature in °C and pressure in hPa, the calibration data has to be used. These
[18:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> "
[18:30] <Vaizki_> datasheets are for people who can't handle arduino
[18:30] <Vaizki_> .. :)
[18:31] <arjunnaha> I think I also have to understand this https://github.com/PiInTheSky/pits/blob/master/tracker/bmp085.c
[18:32] <Vaizki_> so in 24 hours UBSEDS15 should be over norway/sweden.. transmitting on 434.600.. do we have anyone listening..
[18:33] <Vaizki_> Oddstr13 would be well positioned...
[18:33] <Vaizki_> and even myself when it comes over to Finland
[18:36] <Vaizki_> someone needs to pick it up to confirm circumnavigation :)
[18:37] <SM0ULC-Reb> any tip of doing frequency spectrum in linux? baudline and 8 Mhz wide sample doesn't seem to play very well
[18:37] <Vaizki_> realtime?
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[18:40] <arjunnaha> ping daveake
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[18:41] <mfa298> Vaizki_: s/can't/refuse to/ for the arduino comment.
[18:41] <mfa298> if they can't handle a arduino they probably can't understand a datasheet :P
[18:42] <Vaizki_> my feeble attempts at humor tend to misfire.. :(
[18:52] <Oddstr13> heh
[18:52] <Oddstr13> most of the prediction is north of me. that's new
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[18:53] <Oddstr13> got any good rx antenna design for me? connectors is probably gona be my biggest issue tho
[18:53] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VEGA2 after 037 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VEGA2
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[19:01] <Vaizki_> Oddstr13: you're still on the hackrf only?
[19:01] <Oddstr13> was there a filter on the tracker to get only the (presumed) active floaters?
[19:01] <Oddstr13> Vaizki_: hackrf / rtl-sdr
[19:02] <Vaizki_> no filter for floaters only afaik
[19:02] <Oddstr13> I seem to remember a list of floaters only a while back
[19:04] <Vaizki_> in a pinch I guess you could just make a 1/4 wave antenna out of wire.. not sure how effective it would be
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[19:05] <Oddstr13> was thinking something like this might be ok; http://www.savel.org/stuff/20050626d.gif
[19:05] <Vaizki_> sure
[19:05] <mfa298> I use a variation of whats on the wiki as a payload antennas which seems to do ok.
[19:05] <mfa298> and it's cheap to make :)
[19:06] <Oddstr13> I grabbed some mains inlet ground cable leftovers from my uncle
[19:07] <Oddstr13> got some decently sized single-core aluminium leads
[19:07] <cm13g09> mfa298: PM?
[19:07] <mfa298> I'm using the cores from some mains cable in mine, works well
[19:07] <Vaizki_> how about just doing a 1/2 wave dipole?
[19:07] <Oddstr13> was there something about thicker wires giving wider bandwith or some such?
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[19:08] <Oddstr13> Vaizki_: isn't that more or less the same as a 1/4 wave ground plane?
[19:08] <Vaizki_> I think a full wave vertical has some nulls in the horizontal plane
[19:09] <Vaizki_> Oddstr13: I am not expert, far from it.. but a 1/2 wave dipole is REALLY easy to make :)
[19:09] <Oddstr13> yea, two wires, pretty much
[19:09] <Oddstr13> a ground plane would be like 4-5 wires
[19:11] <Vaizki_> a 5/8 wavelength monopole could give you nice reach towards the horizon
[19:12] <Vaizki_> http://i.stack.imgur.com/oJZ2v.gif
[19:12] <Vaizki_> then again it's a balloon, maybe the 1/4 is not that bad.. :)
[19:12] <Oddstr13> http://www.mapleleafcom.com/PDFs_Downloads/Radiation_Patterns_Verticals.pdf
[19:14] <Vaizki_> right.. so a full wave would be good if you can't get the antenna high
[19:15] <Oddstr13> lightning is rather nasty up here, and only sloped roofs
[19:15] <mfa298> Oddstr13: I beleive thicker wire will improve the bandwidth, although I'm not sure how much difference it makes
[19:15] <Oddstr13> but, depending on how high "high" is, I could possibly stick it out a window or some such
[19:16] <Vaizki_> high = visibility to the horizon towards the balloon :)
[19:16] <Vaizki_> my antenna is quite horizon-oriented.. http://www.diamondantenna.net/x50arad.html
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[19:17] <Oddstr13> the aluminium wire I've got is 4.5mm diameter
[19:17] <mfa298> unless the antenna elemnts are 1/4 wave you might need to think about where the feed point is, If you made a dipole with 2x 1/2 wave lengths I think the feedpoint becomes very high impedance.
[19:18] <Vaizki_> 4.5mm? that's a ROD
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[19:19] <Oddstr13> got some parts of an old folded dipole antenna or two here too, that'd be a decent feed for a dipole, right?
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[19:19] <Oddstr13> 1.5m or so of that
[19:20] <Oddstr13> more if I solder together some pieces
[19:21] <Oddstr13> Vaizki_: i know right, the moment I saw it, I thought it could make a great antenna! :)
[19:22] <Oddstr13> got three pieces at about 46cm here, I'ma go see if I can find the rest
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[19:32] <SA6BSS-Mike> be ware, ubseds dows not do aprs over norway swe and finland sp we wont see it makling cont.
[19:33] <SA6BSS-Mike> well it might tx over ionternational water so there might be some norweigan station recive iy before it shuts of
[19:35] <x-f> does it transmit anything else besides APRS?
[19:35] <Oddstr13> no 70cm ism rtty?
[19:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes, contestia
[19:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> Contestia 16/1000 mode on 434.6MHz USB
[19:36] <Oddstr13> ooo, one of them fun modes
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[19:40] <Vaizki_> they have geofence maps on the net
[19:40] <Vaizki_> http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/assets/flights/15/ubseds15_uhf_geofence_world_miller_cylindrical.jpg
[19:40] <Oddstr13> pretty sure I saw something like that on UHF a few years ago
[19:41] <Vaizki_> inside the red lines it does 434.600
[19:41] <Oddstr13> not allways?
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[19:42] <Vaizki_> nope.. trying to save power
[19:43] <Vaizki_> not sure I agree with the decision but hey it's their balloon :)
[19:43] <Vaizki_> with luck it will be caught on APRS at the coast, the geofence to block APRS doesn't go that far offshore..
[19:44] <Oddstr13> found the article ^^
[19:45] <Oddstr13> I think there are a few APRS station in Trondheim atleast
[19:46] <Vaizki_> yea I think some very high ASL ones
[19:46] <Vaizki_> on the norway coast
[19:46] <Vaizki_> but UBSEDS13 came the same route and was never seen after iceland
[19:47] <Vaizki_> maybe because people weren't listening on UHF.. maybe because it went in the sea or the north pole :)
[19:48] <SA6BSS-Mike> or battery ran out, it was on its last drop
[19:49] <SA6BSS-Mike> thats waht I think happend
[19:51] <Vaizki_> well this one is solar
[19:53] <Oddstr13> very good chances that it'll get picked up by aprs
[19:54] <Oddstr13> very good coverage north in norway out towards the sea I'd say
[19:54] <Vaizki_> yes.. I won't be at home when it should be here but I'll set up a remote station for 70cm..
[19:55] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS15 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS15
[19:55] <Vaizki_> haha
[19:56] <Vaizki_> :D
[19:56] <Vaizki_> right on cue!
[19:56] <Oddstr13> ouch, way north
[19:56] <Vaizki_> boom that's a circumnavigation for UBSEDS team, congrats
[19:57] <Oddstr13> can we have a updated hysplit?
[19:57] <Vaizki_> yea I have no way of catching that
[19:58] <Oddstr13> range from current location to selected balloon would've been neat
[19:58] <Vaizki_> well I suspect it won't change that much, it's on one of those lines that pass through the middle of Finland
[20:02] <Oddstr13> https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/250hPa/orthographic=-337.53,59.79,798
[20:02] <Oddstr13> yea, about zero chance of me seeing that one.
[20:03] <Oddstr13> no telemetry on APRS, eh?
[20:04] <Oddstr13> no graphs anyways
[20:04] <Vaizki_> yes there's graphs
[20:07] <Oddstr13> a force reload fixed it
[20:11] <Vaizki_> well I just wanted to see UBSEDS go around the world, tha'ts why I was pestering for Norwegian listeners :)
[20:15] <Oddstr13> hey, if you ever think one of them floaters might kinda sorta possible reach me in a copule of days or less, poke me! :P
[20:16] <Vaizki_> well you are the frontier
[20:16] <Oddstr13> hehe
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[20:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-C2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-C2
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[21:03] <arjunnaha> Super weird, this is coming through the PITS board on RTTY https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/pqaJi1PQ/
[21:03] <russss> hahaha
[21:04] <russss> you probably want to turn off the linux serial console
[21:04] <russss> although I'm rather amused by the possibility of a balloon broadcasting a kernel panic over RTTY
[21:05] <craag> lol
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[21:05] Action: balloon_rtty please help me
[21:06] <craag> how can we be of assistance balloon_rtty ?
[21:06] <arjunnaha> That was me lol
[21:06] <arjunnaha> bad joke
[21:06] <craag> hah
[21:06] <craag> ok
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[21:06] <mfa298> I feel like daveake windows blue screen over ssdv was better (or was that windows updates)
[21:06] <craag> both iirc mfa298 !
[21:07] <craag> arjunnaha: Put a transceiver on it and we'll see if we can install win10-iot before burst ;)
[21:07] <arjunnaha> Haha, have they released that yet?
[21:08] <arjunnaha> I think it was the embedded version
[21:08] <craag> for the pi3 they have
[21:09] <mfa298> I think Win10-IOT came out with the Pi2, although im not sure how many have trid it
[21:09] <craag> although yeah it's embedded sort-of-thing
[21:09] <arjunnaha> looks pretty good
[21:09] <craag> designed for commercial deployments of lots of them in kiosks n stuff
[21:09] <craag> not v useful for hobby
[21:10] <mfa298> we had windows updated over ssdv http://ssdv.habhub.org/images/2013-04-13--22-33-48-PIE5-E7.jpeg?u=38 (and other silly images http://ssdv.habhub.org/PIE5/2013-04-13)
[21:11] <arjunnaha> haha, the pixel blocking makes it so 'genuine'
[21:17] <SM0ULC-Reb> wow, way to go ubseds!
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[21:18] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki_: you won't hear ubseds?
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[22:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 035389545_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=5389545_chase
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[00:00] --- Thu Jun 2 2016