highaltitude.log.20160531

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[08:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M3 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M3
[08:13] <fsphil> mmm
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[08:15] <SA6BSS-Mike> M3 is 434,510 100b 7n2 440
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[08:15] <Vaizki_> SA6BSS-Mike, was it with you that we discussed airband.. I got that filter and it made a HUGE difference to speech quality
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[08:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> good to hear!
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[08:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes we had that discussion
[08:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> look like it got to much gas, darn, its not going to float
[08:18] <fsphil> 1.0m/s, it might
[08:18] <Vaizki_> SA6BSS-Mike, filter is like this http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/5744/plot0001.gif
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[08:18] <SM0ULC-Reb> pse add hysplit to M3?
[08:19] <Vaizki_> it's not enough to completely kill broadcast FM but it really damps it down
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[08:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS15 after 033 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS15
[08:45] <Upu> wow
[08:45] <Upu> go UBSEDS15
[08:48] <fsphil> hah, "Warning: Unresponsive script"
[08:48] <fsphil> haven't seen that since the spacenear.us days
[08:49] <fsphil> Iceland! sweet
[09:06] <mattbrejza> !whereis UBSEDS15
[09:06] <SpacenearUS> 03mattbrejza: 03UBSEDS15 is over 03North Atlantic Ocean 10(62.06577,-19.80112) at 0311950 meters
[09:07] <cm13g09> richardeoin: are you trying to out-perform Leo....
[09:18] <richardeoin> hello
[09:18] <richardeoin> cm13g09: that's 31 days now, I'm calling it 'not too bad'
[09:20] <pb0ahx> !flights
[09:20] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03SKIPI Launch 1 10(521b), 03Cranmere Test 2 10(e53a)
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[09:21] <fsphil> quite acceptable
[09:22] <AndyEsser> is that all? :P
[09:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Yup looking good!
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[09:23] <fsphil> !hysplit UBSEDS15
[09:23] <SpacenearUS> 03fsphil: HYSPLIT for 03UBSEDS15 - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/160531-04_12023_UBSEDS15.gif
[09:23] <fsphil> going high
[09:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> but a couple of days old, have to see what the new brings in an hour or two
[09:25] <fsphil> indeed
[09:26] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> !flight e53a
[09:26] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE-Lap: Flight 10(e53a): 03Cranmere Test 2 10(2 payloads) - Launch date 03Today at 11:00 from 03Surrey, UK 10(51.16687,-0.73333)
[09:26] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Humm no details for RPF-C2 maybe its LoRa ?
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[09:29] <garymortimer> morning all, Cranmere still a go?
[09:29] <fsphil> ahoy
[09:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Its very windy over here at ground level
[09:30] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> and wet
[09:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Not sure that its a good day to launch at all http://www.raintoday.co.uk/
[09:33] <garymortimer> Oh OK, thanks
[09:33] <garymortimer> Maybe behind that band...
[09:35] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> The NOTAM is till 16:00 I think
[09:36] <daveake> Windy here; forecast has it windy till the weekend, then we get a few calm days
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[09:41] <pb0ahx> is SKIPI yesterday recoverd ???
[09:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Yes and pictures recovered
[09:42] <pb0ahx> nice to here that
[09:43] <JonnyAlpha> Just set all my gear up again, blue skys in N Devon :-(
[09:43] <JonnyAlpha> Skies
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[09:44] <garymortimer> SKIPI was near Lord Herefords Knob! (I know a bit viz)
[09:45] <garymortimer> Always blue skies in N Devon
[09:46] <JonnyAlpha> garymortimer: First sunny bank holiday weve had for ever!!
[09:47] <garymortimer> Ah well I am looking through the rose tinted specs of my yoof 30 years ago at Chivenor
[09:49] <JonnyAlpha> Chivenor - spent 4 years there - Airfield now closed - 22 Flight RAF S&R sadly disbanded :-(
[09:49] <JonnyAlpha> Now living just up the road.
[09:49] <jakeio> Yeah, we eventually found SKIPI pb0ahx, although I had to start climbing the mountain near the landing site a bit to get a telemetry string through and hence find it!
[09:50] <garymortimer> 63 Sqn tea and coffee maker AATC
[09:50] <daveake> garymortimer: Not far from Three Cocks either </viz>
[09:51] <garymortimer> Indeed Dave
[09:51] <garymortimer> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlRrdbkyV8w
[09:54] <JonnyAlpha> garymortimer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._63_Squadron_RAF
[09:56] <garymortimer> Thats the one, I was there 85-87 fantastic place, but I'm from just over the border in South Somerset
[10:09] <JonnyAlpha> 85-87 I was with Cdo Log Regt in Plymouth, the same Regt that moved into Chivenor in 95 :-)
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[10:28] <pb0ahx> jakeio, mni tnx for info nice for u u find everyting
[10:29] <pb0ahx> jakeio, if u recoverd all than the flight was compleet
[10:29] <jakeio> Indeed! We got everything back! It really was awesome!
[10:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> !flight e53a
[10:29] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Flight 10(e53a): 03Cranmere Test 2 10(2 payloads) - Launch date 03Today at 11:00 from 03Surrey, UK 10(51.16687,-0.73333)
[10:30] <pb0ahx> :-) good job
[10:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Meets the NOTAM requirements for South or Southwesterly drift but NOTAM only 11:00-1200 BST http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=d4fd8141847d20daf38716d75aae09b46b41f8a8
[10:45] <edmoore> i know lord hereford's knob quite well
[10:45] <edmoore> have mounted it a few times
[10:46] <edmoore> i think it upsets locals tho who just call it (what sounds like) choompa
[10:46] <edmoore> but it spelt something like twymymym
[10:50] <gonzo__> there was a Dorset Knob till recently (pub)
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[11:11] <JonnyAlpha> Still sell Dorset Knob biscuits!!
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[11:21] <SpeedEvil> Spotted dick
[11:23] <mfa298> Dorset Knob sounds like it ought to come from near Cerne Abbas
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[12:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03cmb 7425_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=cmb%207425_chase
[12:31] <tweetBot> @SupermanValues: #UKhas Fallen Thank a politician. https://t.co/TtCad70QMU
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[14:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N1YIP-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N1YIP-11
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[15:06] <Ben-AstroSoc> I just got taught about sscanf()
[15:06] Action: Ben-AstroSoc throws out in progress numerical parser code
[15:07] <AndyEsser> I need to learn Go and Docker
[15:07] <AndyEsser> someone's just pointed me at a very lucrative contract that uses them
[15:07] <gonzo__> library code... the devil's work
[15:07] <AndyEsser> I've have become... "Hipster Developer"
[15:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> To be fair up until now I've never actually been taught c properly
[15:08] <AndyEsser> I think CS courses should all teach it as a module
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[15:08] <gonzo__> AndyEsser, isn't it usua;l to BS through the interview then read a dummies guide on the subject the weekend before you start
[15:08] <AndyEsser> it's good to have an understanding of it - and what higher level languages are basically built on
[15:08] <Ben-AstroSoc> They mostly do, but I don't do pure CS
[15:08] <AndyEsser> gonzo__: the guy that leads the team - that has referred the job to me, didn't know any of the stack when he got the job
[15:08] <fsphil> sscanf() contains many dangers
[15:08] <AndyEsser> but they use AWS and Linux - so I've got a good headstart
[15:10] <Ben-AstroSoc> Was going to use sscanf() to convert my data that I already have in a string into numbers - dangerous by itself?
[15:14] <fsphil> if the variable types you are parsing into are not exactly correct, many weird things can happen
[15:14] <Vaizki_> AndyEsser: neither of them is too bad
[15:14] <Vaizki_> both have little quirks but quite manageable
[15:15] <AndyEsser> Vaizki_: Yea I'm sure I can pick up Go easily enough - and Docker shouldn't be too complex if "normal" developers can manage it :P
[15:15] <Vaizki_> docker is easy as pie once you try how it works
[15:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> fsphil: worth running checks to confirm its correct data and then converting?
[15:15] <Vaizki_> all the explanations about it just suck
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[15:17] <AndyEsser> Vaizki_: ta
[15:17] <AndyEsser> shall dig into it and explore it
[15:17] <Vaizki_> well the explanations are written for "normal developers".. so when you know how the linux kernel, networking stack etc is built you feel exhausted reading them
[15:17] <AndyEsser> need to get my AWS talk out of the way first - no time to handle other stuff atm
[15:17] <Vaizki_> get-to-the-f-----point-please
[15:17] <AndyEsser> ha
[15:18] <Vaizki_> a docker container is basically a namespace for processes etc, running under the same kernel but with restricted visibility and resources
[15:18] <AndyEsser> similar to a chroot jail?
[15:18] <Vaizki_> and everything gets linked up over a private little tcp/ip network
[15:18] <Vaizki_> very similar but quite a bit more
[15:19] <Vaizki_> just try it out, it's the easiest way (or was for me)
[15:19] <AndyEsser> yep - cheers
[15:19] <AndyEsser> will do that
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[15:20] <Vaizki_> I actually use docker quite a bit.. and even my <200 euro home QNAP NAS box runs docker containers, you can manage them from the web gui .. :O
[15:21] <Vaizki_> so I put all my home network crap like dhcp and dnsmasq etc there
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[15:51] <mfa298> systemd with cgroups seems to be trying to do a lot of process containerization/namespacing as well these days.
[15:52] <mfa298> although I'm not sure how similar that is to what docker is doing
[15:52] <mfa298> and then of course there's the general systemd hate that seems to be out there
[15:53] <mfa298> to go with the hipster love of docker
[15:53] <fsphil> Ben-AstroSoc: more that the types in the format string match the types you're writing the output to
[15:54] <fsphil> in type and in number
[15:55] <Ben-AstroSoc> I mean, float in string to float in number should work alright?
[15:56] <fsphil> "%f", &some_float is fine
[15:56] <fsphil> "%d", &an_integer isn't
[15:56] <fsphil> but might not give you an error
[15:57] <Ben-AstroSoc> Mostly dealing with floats so should be fine. Can't think of any integers I actually need to be parsing
[15:57] <fsphil> "%f", &an_integer isn't
[15:57] <fsphil> *
[15:57] <fsphil> "%d", &an_integer is of course fine too :)
[15:58] <Ben-AstroSoc> Out of curiosity would %d and &a_float be fine or would interesting things happen?
[15:59] <fsphil> interesting, in a wtf way
[15:59] <fsphil> it *might* warn you
[15:59] <Ben-AstroSoc> So it wouldn't necessarily convert to x.000...
[15:59] <fsphil> no
[15:59] <Ben-AstroSoc> Gotcha
[15:59] <Ben-AstroSoc> Lecturer was kinda vague about what conversions actually work properly
[16:00] <mfa298> fsphil: I think you got something confused in there.
[16:01] <mfa298> 15:56 < fsphil> "%d", &an_integer isn't
[16:01] <mfa298> 15:57 < fsphil> "%d", &an_integer is of course fine too :)
[16:01] <Ben-AstroSoc> He corrected himself
[16:01] <Ben-AstroSoc> I understood him so
[16:01] <mfa298> I'd guess the first one was suppsoed to be %f &an_integer
[16:02] <fsphil> yeah
[16:02] <Ben-AstroSoc> I think the first time I've actually understood pointers was when he wrote *(&b) is the same as just b
[16:03] <AndyEsser> dereferencing a pointer gets you the object the pointer points at
[16:03] <mfa298> in simplistic terms, if the format string doesn't match the type being pointed to weird stuff can happen.
[16:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> Yeah, I think we're going over the full pointer bit tomorrow
[16:04] <AndyEsser> Anyway - home time
[16:04] <fsphil> pointers are (null)
[16:04] <AndyEsser> off to go get my HF scanner if the guy has remembered to bring it
[16:04] <mfa298> the other one to be careful with on scanf/sscanf is readign charater strings. You need to ensure the array your passing the reference to is big enough for any data going into it (otherwise you can hit buffer overflows and more weird results)
[16:04] <fsphil> oooh
[16:05] <Ben-AstroSoc> Yeah I've got myself covered for overflow errors I think, had to patch them up when I was first writing the parser
[16:05] <Ben-AstroSoc> As nothing was working and that was why
[16:05] <fsphil> parsers are quite tricky to write in C
[16:06] <Ben-AstroSoc> I doubt mine is efficient nor elegant but it works
[16:06] <fsphil> s/parsers are/anything related to string manipulation is/
[16:07] <adamgreig> always use snprintf for output, always use either %m or set a max width on strings
[16:07] <adamgreig> don't scanf("%s", bla), it will eventually screw you over
[16:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> What's the %m reference?
[16:07] <daveake> There's strtok for parsing out tokens, or yeah use a language where strings aren't such a pita
[16:07] <adamgreig> %m causes scanf to allocate memory for you instead
[16:08] <adamgreig> only works with dynamic memory allocation, i.e. not on AVRs
[16:08] <Ben-AstroSoc> Ah
[16:08] <fsphil> avr's have malloc()
[16:08] <adamgreig> gross
[16:08] <adamgreig> guess it could work on AVRs
[16:08] <adamgreig> don't use dynamic memory allocationo n AVRs :P
[16:08] <adamgreig> %20s will read at most 20 digits
[16:08] <adamgreig> use that
[16:08] <adamgreig> (note that length does NOT include the terminating null)
[16:08] <Ben-AstroSoc> I need to spend some time reading up on the memory allocation stuff, not great at understanding it atm
[16:09] <AndyEsser> char* buffer = new char[1024];
[16:09] <AndyEsser> do that on an AVR
[16:09] <AndyEsser> :P
[16:09] <AndyEsser> and then weep
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[16:11] <mfa298> the reference for scanf/sscanf format strings I was looking at (general reference not avr) doesn't mention %m so that might be a special option in some compilers only
[16:11] <Ben-AstroSoc> Right
[16:11] <mfa298> I came accross alloca on the avr instead of malloc which looks to be a better option if you really have to allocate memory that way
[16:12] <Ben-AstroSoc> I'll have a look into it, most I've done with messing with memory is memcpy
[16:12] <AndyEsser> no memset?
[16:13] <adamgreig> %m is on my manpage, ymmv
[16:13] <Ben-AstroSoc> Might've been memset, can't remember
[16:13] <mfa298> AndyEsser: new is C++ isn't it (or can you use new in C now)
[16:13] <adamgreig> new is c++ yes
[16:13] <Ben-AstroSoc> I was writing \0 over an array for something
[16:13] <AndyEsser> mfa298: sorry yes
[16:13] <AndyEsser> char* buffer = (char*)malloc(2048);
[16:13] <AndyEsser> better?
[16:13] <AndyEsser> :P
[16:14] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: memset would've been a smarter choice then
[16:14] <AndyEsser> memset(ptr, '\0', size);
[16:14] <Ben-AstroSoc> That could well have been what I did, will check when I get home
[16:15] <adamgreig> you can memset to 0 rather than '\0' too
[16:16] <mfa298> AndyEsser: although on the avr char* buffer = alloca(1024); might be better (and use all your memory)
[16:16] <Ben-AstroSoc> Yep
[16:16] <AndyEsser> mfa298: the purpose of my code was to accidentally max out all available memory :P
[16:17] <mfa298> my weekend discovery: http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__alloca.html
[16:17] <AndyEsser> anyway, really am leaving now
[16:17] <AndyEsser> night all
[16:17] <AndyEsser> mfa298: ah, it's cleared up from the stack
[16:17] <AndyEsser> neat
[16:18] <Ben-AstroSoc> I spent most of last week looking at writing a standalone application for this glider thing, to configure it before flight and help track/monitor data. Realised today I can do the entire thing in labview in about a third of the time
[16:18] <adamgreig> yes but then you'd have to use labview
[16:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> I've had two hours on it and it hasn't got to me yet, so I guess there's still time
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[16:43] <edmoore> how are you going to put labview on a 500g glider?
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[16:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD2EAT-5 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD2EAT-5
[16:51] <nick_> LabView is a well designed language. It has a plan and it follows through on it.
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[16:57] <edmoore> like hitler
[16:58] <nick_> It decides what it wants to do and it does it better than anything else on the market.
[16:59] <AndyEsser> like hitler
[16:59] <nick_> Unlike Hitler, what it decided to do is fairly useful: allowing people to fairly easily cobble together a large range of hardware into a working system.
[17:09] <nick_> Once you learn how to use LabView writing good programs becomes quite similar to good schematic capture.
[17:13] Action: mfa298 fears LabView might have won due to Godwins law
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[17:15] <PE2BZ> Good evening. ES on 6 meter now. US <> EU
[17:16] <edmoore> the problem is i rarely see good programs written in labview
[17:16] <edmoore> i see people who don't know how to program use labview
[17:16] <edmoore> which is just an annoyingly unexpressive way of writing programs
[17:16] <edmoore> and the result is as bad as they'd get with python because as we know it's the way of methodically structuring and solving problems that is the business of programming, not learning syntax
[17:17] <edmoore> the people who can already program can unsurprisingly make something tolerable with labview too
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[17:23] <nick_> Whatever language you use, you have to learn how to use it well.
[17:24] <nick_> It can be quite frustrating coming from text-based languages to using LabView, but it's just another language to learn.
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[17:25] <nick_> If you try to write Python as if it is C you'll make ugliness, same with LabView.
[17:25] <nick_> (Over half the LabView code I've inherited is written like F77)
[17:25] <lz1dev> :D
[17:27] Nick change: _Matthias -> matthias
[17:28] <edmoore> yes but you have to know how to program, that's the point
[17:28] <nick_> Of course.
[17:28] <edmoore> by which i mean structure a flow of information
[17:28] <edmoore> labview sells itself to people who can't
[17:28] <nick_> Well, at least you need to know how to program LV.
[17:28] <edmoore> and you get horror
[17:28] <edmoore> i have fixed a lot of technician labview horror and it's just not fun
[17:28] <nick_> I'd argue that generally people don't know how to program until they're able to program at least a few different languages.
[17:29] <nick_> Yeah, but I've had the same with any technician code.
[17:29] <adamgreig> yea but lab view is the only one that specifically advertises as not needing to know how to program or need to learn how to program
[17:30] <adamgreig> so it seems to have a disproportionate level of awful programs
[17:30] <nick_> (Why we let people waste both money and their time getting electronics technicians to program badly is beyond me.)
[17:30] <edmoore> indeed
[17:31] <nick_> LV's benefits are not in the fact that you don't have to program, they're in the wide range of hardware support and also the relative ease of making OK programs (I'd say as easy as Python).
[17:32] <edmoore> not that people from the west country are stupid but the final straw for me on one project was when i insisted on just making a thing myself to solve a problem (with a microcontroller) and the technician customer said 'well you have to program it in basic', in an extremely broad, almost pirate westcountry accent, and wouldn't budge
[17:32] <edmoore> only time we've fired a customer
[17:33] <edmoore> i'm sure it's the hardware support that keeps labview going
[17:33] <edmoore> the incumbant's advantage
[17:33] <edmoore> as by alsmost any other metric is horrible
[17:33] <edmoore> it's*
[17:33] <nick_> I really don't think it's horrible.
[17:33] <edmoore> it's like matlab in the early 2000s
[17:33] <nick_> It is well designed and has a number of good features.
[17:34] <edmoore> alright then, it is responsible for a lot of horror, maybe
[17:34] <edmoore> like ak47s in the middle east
[17:34] <edmoore> but really i still think its horrible and would dearly love some sort of open replacement
[17:34] <nick_> Well, I would assume significantly less horrors than C.
[17:34] <edmoore> even with drag and drop guis
[17:35] <nick_> Yeah, any language with a good library of hardware interfaces would be good.
[17:35] <edmoore> having to put windows in the loop for industrial control is criminal enough as it is
[17:35] <edmoore> to the point that we sometimes gets specs from customers saying 'critical loop must run on fpga' which is a confused result of them only knowing labview but knowing that they sell an expensive box with an fpga in that does control off the PC
[17:36] <nick_> For the GUI I think web browsers can basically replace it these days.
[17:37] <nick_> For interacting with hardware I often think Go would be a good choice.
[17:38] <edmoore> just python would do me fine
[17:39] <edmoore> there are now popping up some promising python module attempts at talking to most bits of test equipment
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[17:39] <nick_> Python doesn't handle concurrency well, which leads to some headaches with hardware.
[17:39] <edmoore> and i agree on the broswer stuff - something like node red is already getting there
[17:39] <edmoore> what sort of headaches?
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[17:44] <edmoore> goroutine syscalls are still blocking i'd have thought and most hardware interraction would be networky i'd imagine
[17:44] <edmoore> and modern python is now drifting towards async io
[17:45] <lz1dev> async io is love
[17:46] <nick_> Safely sharing data across concurrently running things without having to think much about it.
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[17:50] <nick_> Go is neatly designed around the idea that you have multiple routines that block periodically to allow the runtime to switch which is operating.
[17:50] <edmoore> sounds almost like an OS within an OS
[17:50] <adamgreig> well it's just green threads
[17:50] <nick_> And then just lets you send data from one routine to another via blocking or buffered FIFOs.
[17:50] <nick_> With very little thought on your behalf to make it safe.
[17:51] <nick_> Yeah, it's essentially a mini OS that knows how to share the memory and garbage collect it across lots of programs.
[17:51] <adamgreig> python's gevent and stuff gives you the same benefits though slightly less ergonomic than go's
[17:51] <nick_> I value my time too much to worry about memory management across threads.
[17:51] <adamgreig> but has the advantage that unlike go, python has a million libraries including talking to test gear, doing UIs, and doing web stuff, so..
[17:51] <adamgreig> yea sure
[17:52] <nick_> I've not used Python's threading in years, maybe it is decent now.
[17:52] <adamgreig> python's own threading is fair (and stuff like Queue is good) but it's still OS native threads or processes
[17:52] <adamgreig> Go uses its own green threads
[17:53] <adamgreig> Python can also do this via libraries like gevent and they work very well, just like Go
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[18:13] <lz1dev> gevent is pretty sweet
[18:18] <Vaizki_> yes it is.. I still find go channels etc elegant
[18:18] <Vaizki_> and I use python 99% of the time
[18:19] <adamgreig> i like rust's channels too
[18:20] <Vaizki_> and of course go is blazing fast compared to python :(
[18:20] <adamgreig> i wrote a bunch of go but didn't really enjoy it all that much
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[18:20] <adamgreig> it's quite nice but not sure I gain enough over python
[18:20] <adamgreig> having a much better time writing rust these days
[18:21] <Vaizki_> I have not even tried that..
[18:21] <adamgreig> has most of the same advantages of go
[18:21] <adamgreig> stuff like compiling to a single static binary, very fast, bla bla
[18:21] <adamgreig> but with a lot of very nice things borrowed from python, haskell, elsewhere
[18:21] <adamgreig> stuff like pattern matching, strong types, type inference
[18:21] <adamgreig> none of this interface{} bullshit from Go which was my least favourite feature
[18:22] <adamgreig> and rust also has strong promises about memory safety and data race safety, i.e. they won't happen
[18:23] <adamgreig> plus it has a great build/dependency/package system
[18:23] <adamgreig> which doesn't stick all your projects in one crazy hierarchy like go :p
[18:24] <Vaizki_> well it's nice to have choice :)
[18:25] <adamgreig> yea!
[18:25] <adamgreig> go was really fun for a few things
[18:25] <adamgreig> but now I think I mostly use python and rust and enjoy it
[18:25] <adamgreig> coming around to javascript again after a brief flirtation with coffeescript too
[18:27] <Vaizki_> I cannot get my head around liking node.js
[18:27] <adamgreig> heh, I haven't tried it really yet
[18:27] <Vaizki_> it's an abomination in my book :)
[18:27] <adamgreig> don't think I want to really, but it's very popular
[18:27] <craag> It's better than php
[18:27] <adamgreig> yea, that
[18:27] <adamgreig> probably anyway lol
[18:27] <craag> :D
[18:27] <Vaizki_> yes it is
[18:27] <lz1dev> dont do nodejs kids
[18:27] <lz1dev> stick to python
[18:27] <adamgreig> why couldn't it have been something like ocaml that suddenly became popular
[18:27] <lz1dev> trust me
[18:27] <adamgreig> but yea I'd rather python or rust or something for server side
[18:28] <Vaizki_> or erlang
[18:28] <craag> hah, my coworker considered writing our api in ocaml
[18:28] <craag> then went with nodejs
[18:30] <AndyEsser> Once you get passed the "JavaScript on a server" idea, NodeJS is quite nice
[18:31] <adamgreig> Vaizki_: yea!! or elixr, I wanna try that
[18:31] <adamgreig> elixir*
[18:31] <AndyEsser> but once you stop thinking of it as the language that developers use for animations in a browser, and see it as a pretty fast way to control v8 then it works
[18:31] <adamgreig> AndyEsser: not 100% convinced :p
[18:31] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: neither was I
[18:32] <AndyEsser> but I was using as relay and game server for a web based game, and it was good the job
[18:32] <adamgreig> it still suffers a bit from being a language written for one line scripts attached to html elements, in my experience
[18:32] <AndyEsser> what I'd like to do is make it the scripting language for a C++ 'core'
[18:32] <AndyEsser> more performant than Lua or Python in that case
[18:32] <adamgreig> heh
[18:32] <adamgreig> sad in a way that it'd be more performant
[18:32] <adamgreig> mostly a function of developer time spent on the wicked fast interpreters
[18:32] <Vaizki_> at work we have a c++ core in our products with hooks to python for stuff
[18:33] <Vaizki_> for many products
[18:33] <Vaizki_> some are just pure python...
[18:33] <AndyEsser> however, I've not used it in anger for 'hardcore' stuff
[18:33] <Vaizki_> and some a big mix of stuff :)
[18:33] <AndyEsser> Vaizki_: I've never been a big fan of Python, so it was easy for me to dismiss it
[18:33] <AndyEsser> when I was doing the analysis stuff at the end of last year for balloons/parachutes etc - it did the job
[18:33] <AndyEsser> but that was just manipulating data and drawing pretty graphs - not for controlling anything proper
[18:34] <AndyEsser> :P
[18:34] <Vaizki_> well I'm no fan of Python syntax but I find the node.js callback stuff just infuriating
[18:34] <AndyEsser> That caught me off guard to start with
[18:34] <AndyEsser> until you slip into the async mentality
[18:36] <Vaizki_> well I've done a lot of async stuff.. our main product used to be a proxy server for mobile data networks..
[18:36] <Vaizki_> 500k simultaneous clients etc
[18:36] <AndyEsser> is that all?
[18:36] <AndyEsser> :P
[18:36] <Vaizki_> http://callbackhell.com/
[18:37] <Vaizki_> that first example is node.js to me :D
[18:37] <Vaizki_> google for example.. aaaargggghhh
[18:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> edmoore: I'm not putting labview on a 500g glider
[18:42] <nick_> My brain doesn't like callbacks.
[18:43] <nick_> Listening on a channel seems like a much more intuitive way to allow you to follow what's happening in concurrent code.
[18:44] <adamgreig> yea agreed
[18:44] <adamgreig> I like channels or queues for concurrency
[18:44] <AndyEsser> not familiar with channels, is it basically registering to listen for an event that you set up for when _something_ has completed?
[18:45] <adamgreig> sort of, some times
[18:45] <AndyEsser> ha
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[18:45] <adamgreig> it's generally just like a pipe that one or more things sends into and one or more things takes from
[18:45] <nick_> AndyEsser: a buffered channel is basically a fifo.
[18:45] <nick_> So you'll set something running and tell it to return results as and when they become available.
[18:45] <Vaizki_> except of course it passes objects, not bytes
[18:46] <nick_> So your code still reads very similarly whether things are running concurrently (or in parallel) or not.
[18:47] <Vaizki_> an unbuffered channel blocks if you read without a sender.. or if you send without a reader
[18:47] <Vaizki_> so it's an automatic synchronization of execution including exchange of data
[18:47] <AndyEsser> hmm kk
[18:50] <AndyEsser> shall investigate more
[18:50] <Vaizki_> http://sporto.github.io/blog/2013/08/18/concurrency-node-vs-go/
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[18:50] <Vaizki_> if you have used node.js promises etc
[18:52] <AndyEsser> I haven't
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> ewww multithreading in javascript
[18:54] <Vaizki_> yea I don't like that js example at all :)
[18:54] <Vaizki_> hrrr
[18:54] <Laurenceb_> I've been religated to number 2 http://habhub.org/zeusbot/pisg.html
[18:54] <AndyEsser> I don't like the page at all
[18:54] <AndyEsser> Vaizki_: he says "Go is faster" but provides no numbers or benchmarks
[18:55] <Vaizki_> well you have skills to ignore unsubstantiated content so just .. ignore it :)
[18:55] <AndyEsser> it's also the same length of code, he's made the Node longer by adding the baseUrl variable
[18:55] <AndyEsser> to me - both are just as readable
[18:56] <AndyEsser> however, I will concede that like same/new-line open braces it's all personal preference
[18:57] <Vaizki_> well the point was in how the go channels are used to synchronize execution, in this very simple case to wait for those two requests to complete...
[18:58] <AndyEsser> and the node execution synchronises as well
[18:58] <AndyEsser> (not intentionally by obtuse, perhaps just unintentionally being dumb)
[18:58] <AndyEsser> s/by/being
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[19:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VK9WI after 0317 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK9WI
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[19:15] <Vaizki_> AndyEsser: ah found it.. this is a bit long but (I think) a good read... http://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2015/02/01/what-color-is-your-function/
[19:16] <Vaizki_> and now I have Rust on my to-check list.. dammit
[19:17] <AndyEsser> ya
[19:17] <AndyEsser> ta*
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[20:03] <jarod> http://9gag.com/gag/anNLwzo :D
[20:07] <AndyEsser> well that wouldn't be allowed in the UK :(
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[20:28] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: it would be needed to be delivered in a glass?
[20:29] <AndyEsser> drone operators must remain in visual contact with the drone, and can't be within 50 m of a building
[20:30] <AndyEsser> but yes, 1/2 pint to stick to our archaic half-imperial/half-metric system of things here
[20:30] <SM0ULC-Reb> :)
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[20:32] <mfa298> not sure a 1/2 pint would be allowed either :p
[20:33] <AndyEsser> mfa298: depends if it's delivered the CAA inspector or not :P
[20:33] <AndyEsser> +to
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[20:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03cmb 7425_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=cmb%207425_chase
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[00:00] --- Wed Jun 1 2016