highaltitude.log.20160516

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[00:15] <lkjglglbhjk> Is there a specific name that the HAS uses for the packet format/protocol used for balloon data?
[00:15] <lkjglglbhjk> I'm reading about it, and was at first thinking they were talking about APRS, but clearly not given the frequency
[00:18] <lkjglglbhjk> and am I right to understand that unlike APRS, it is individuals mostly who have antennas which receive the data and route to the internet for tracking?
[00:18] <SpeedEvil> yes
[00:19] <lkjglglbhjk> very interesting
[00:19] <SpeedEvil> The primary reason for not using APRS is that in the UK, it's not legal to use your ham licence airborne
[00:19] <lkjglglbhjk> thanks
[00:19] <lkjglglbhjk> ahh, had not realized. I'm in the US, and I do see flights being tracked here
[00:19] <SpeedEvil> Which meant licence-free. Licence free transmit only modules are quite cheap, and 50bps was picked for no particularly good reason
[00:19] <lkjglglbhjk> on habhub I mean
[00:20] <SpeedEvil> There have been people using the same setup in the US - it is cheaper than APRS per balloon
[00:21] <lkjglglbhjk> yeah I had already purchased a Tectronix 144MHz transmitter chip and it went for ~$50 USD, which felt a bit expensive
[00:22] <lkjglglbhjk> regarding the name of the protocol, though, do you happen to know the answer?
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> I don't know it has a name
[00:22] <lkjglglbhjk> ah ok, thanks
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[00:25] <lkjglglbhjk> yeah I was reading that before, it's good there is so much documentation
[00:25] <lkjglglbhjk> I've got an SDR I'd set it up with
[00:25] <lkjglglbhjk> haven't got to it yet, still scouring the site for broad detail
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[03:14] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS15 after 034 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS15
[04:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BARC - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BARC
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[04:59] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB-11 after 0315 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB-11
[05:34] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> ubseds over western China, hmmm wonder if that is the 6.3 grams sp9uob that went MIA after its firs day
[05:40] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> * Eastern China that is
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[06:05] <PE2BZ> !flights
[06:05] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03BARC 10(cb09), 03PITS 868 10(a51c)
[06:05] <PE2BZ> !payload BARC
[06:05] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Payload 03BARC 10(cb09) 03$$BARC - 03PITS Test - 03434.25 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/910Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[06:10] <PE2BZ> Good morning all. Is BARC really in / on air or is it a test ?
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[06:12] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> its says Launch: Tomorrow at 04:45 UTC from Robin Hood Academy
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[06:31] <PE2BZ> Thanks Mike, where do you read that ?
[06:31] <PE2BZ> On ssdv.habhub.org is shows images
[06:31] <PE2BZ> But I have no signal at all.
[06:38] <PE2BZ> !dial BARC
[06:38] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Latest dials for 03BARC 10(cb09): none
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[07:04] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> if u connect to #habhub you will see the flight get approved
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[08:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03my_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=my_chase
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[08:33] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Hum both BARC and PITS434 are on434.250 ?
[08:33] <Geoff-G8DHE_> !flights
[08:33] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE_: Current flights: 03BARC 10(cb09), 03PITS 868 10(a51c)
[08:33] <pb0ahx> !flights
[08:33] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03BARC 10(cb09), 03PITS 868 10(a51c)
[08:33] <Geoff-G8DHE_> !flight BARC
[08:33] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE_: Flight 10(cb09): 03BARC 10(1 payload) - Launch date 03Today at 04:45 from 03West Midlands, UK 10(52.42597,-1.83374)
[08:34] <pb0ahx> !dial cb09
[08:34] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 03BARC 10(cb09): none
[08:34] <fsphil> afaik barc has already flown
[08:34] <pb0ahx> tnx phil
[08:34] <pb0ahx> i am raddy to receiving lora now
[08:35] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah yes not heard of since nearly 2 hours ago saw it was at the top so quickly turned on!
[08:35] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Obviously stuck on the Skyhook
[08:35] <AndyEsser> Anyone in here ever receive NOAA images?
[08:36] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Years ago, got a bit boring after a whiel
[08:36] <AndyEsser> Presume a homemade QFH type antenna and an SDR should do the trick?
[08:36] <AndyEsser> *crosses fingers*
[08:36] <Geoff-G8DHE_> yes these days that would be the route!
[08:37] <Geoff-G8DHE_> UBSEDS15 doing OK
[08:37] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: turnstile also ok
[08:37] <fsphil> I've heard the noaa signals but didn't manage to get the software working
[08:37] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: a dipole also really ok for first try
[08:38] <fsphil> this was just a colinear
[08:38] <AndyEsser> turnstiles looked like they took up a fair whack of space, but that might just be the photos I saw
[08:38] <AndyEsser> :)
[08:38] <AndyEsser> I imagine I'm going to end up having a bank of SDR's eventually :)
[08:39] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: well 300/137 / 4 => radius :)
[08:39] <AndyEsser> Ah cheers
[08:39] <AndyEsser> might be worth just building both and seeing which is better :)
[08:40] <fsphil> give the software a try first with whatever antenna you have now, you might still get an image
[08:41] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_c6BqcXkZnKLXZpX3hYRUxsemc/view?usp=sharing my try of a qfh
[08:41] <AndyEsser> hmm
[08:41] <AndyEsser> I have an appalling antenna though
[08:41] <AndyEsser> yet to receive anything other than my own payload 20cm away from it
[08:41] <AndyEsser> SM0ULC-Reb: nice and neat
[08:43] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: works pretty ok with the russian sats also
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[08:44] <AndyEsser> might have a play around next weekend - cheers
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[08:53] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: check wstoimg website for code to upgrade to pro-status
[08:54] <Vaizki> hmmh what's worth receiving from NOAA sats?
[08:55] <fsphil> pictures from spaaaaaace
[08:56] <fsphil> seeing a computer receiving live weather sat images is what got me interested in radio
[08:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PI434 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI434
[08:56] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI868 after 0313 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI868
[08:56] <Vaizki> ok sure but for example M2 Meteor is more interesting to me now than NOAA.. :)
[08:57] <AndyEsser> fsphil: Yea - I just want to receive them automatically, and push them into a database, and have a way of looking at them on the web/my phone
[08:57] <AndyEsser> coolness :)
[08:57] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: I'd like to do both - starting simple :P
[08:57] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: sure, but for starters noaa is nice
[08:58] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: instead of trying to hunt down which one of the two that might work.. and only one sat.. three noaas' alive :)
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[09:00] <Vaizki> SM0ULC-Reb, you usea QFH antenna?
[09:03] <SM0ULC-Reb> yepp
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[09:05] <Vaizki> my wife is becoming alarmingly anti-antenna ;)
[09:06] <AndyEsser> Clearly she just doesn't have the right reception
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[09:08] <Vaizki> ba dum tss
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[09:08] <SM0ULC-Reb> :D
[09:08] <AndyEsser> sorry, it's early and I've not had enough coffee yet
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[09:08] <Vaizki> can one have enough coffee?
[09:09] <AndyEsser> never
[09:09] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: they need to be trained slowly :)
[09:09] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: actually, my wife didn't noticed the first antennas at all to my surprise
[09:10] <Vaizki> Mine took like 2 months to notice a discone
[09:10] <Vaizki> aaaand now I noticed that you actually mentioned a QFH in your comment :)
[09:11] <SM0ULC-Reb> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_c6BqcXkZnKLXZpX3hYRUxsemc/view?usp=sharing
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[09:11] <Vaizki> I know antennas better than I read...
[09:11] <AndyEsser> I need to get into my loft and see how feasible it is to fill it with a bunch of antennae
[09:11] <Vaizki> the lowest one is just a tv aerial? :)
[09:11] <Vaizki> AndyEsser, put them outside..
[09:12] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: landlord will get shitty with me
[09:12] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: nope, half of a 17el 70cm yagi, directed southwest towards leo's balloons
[09:13] <Vaizki> so where's the end..
[09:14] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: actually on the top, used for the "moment" to have a split 70cm and 2m dipole
[09:14] <gonzo_> some roof tiles are poor for RF. I had the roof replaced a couple of years ago. the old asbestos tiles were fine, the replacement ones are pretty absorbing/shielding
[09:15] <AndyEsser> :(
[09:15] <gonzo_> AndyEsser, do you have a garden you could put a pole in? As it's pretty simple to make something that is deployable
[09:15] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: i've added a ais-GP, Windom and "big" GPS-antenna since :)
[09:15] <gonzo_> just raise it when req
[09:15] <Vaizki> call your landlord and ask for the dielectric properties of the roof tiles
[09:16] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: yes - but would then be concerned about securing it against wind etc
[09:16] <Vaizki> SM0ULC-Reb, I was considering an AIS receiver but our government has indicated that they will make all the AIS data they receive open data
[09:17] <Vaizki> so not a priority now, also because my island doesn't have a permanent internet connection right now
[09:17] <gonzo_> I had an H shaped mount (two bits of short scaff) concreted into the ground, with a pivot bolt and that allowed me to mount a full size ali scaff pole.
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[09:17] <gonzo_> mine was left up and free standing, but easilly lowered
[09:17] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: "concreted into the ground" is not something I can do :)
[09:18] <Vaizki> why not, dig a hole, put concrete into it
[09:18] <gonzo_> if you are concerned, put some guy ropes on when it's up
[09:18] <Vaizki> it's about as hard as doing porridge
[09:18] <Vaizki> may even end up as hard when dried...
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[09:18] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: I don't own the propery - I can't just dig holes into the garden and pour concrete in
[09:18] <Vaizki> have you tried? :D
[09:18] <gonzo_> it only went down a few feet into the ground, so easilly dug up
[09:18] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: lol
[09:19] <gonzo_> or just hammer it into the earth. It's no more instrsive than spiking in a washing line thingy
[09:19] <Vaizki> just get a ground spike
[09:19] <Vaizki> and 3 guy wires
[09:20] <gonzo_> my base was basically that, but designed to be free standing. Survived storms, but did wave about a lot
[09:20] <AndyEsser> I don't have any grassed areas I could realistically do it
[09:20] <AndyEsser> patio at one end, decking at the other
[09:20] <AndyEsser> path down the middle and flower beds either side
[09:20] <gonzo_> you only need to get clear ish of the surrounding clutter/roofs
[09:21] <fsphil> maybe your landlord is a ham
[09:21] <AndyEsser> also garden has catenaries with neighbours phone lines going over it
[09:21] <AndyEsser> in a really annoying fan-shape so is actually quite hard to get clear of
[09:21] <gonzo_> they snap easilly enough
[09:21] <Vaizki> hams? true that
[09:22] <gonzo_> and eventually BT will route them some other way
[09:22] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: ha!
[09:22] <Vaizki> phone lines over your yard? complain about the radiatio
[09:22] <Vaizki> +n
[09:23] <gonzo_> tin foil hat job
[09:23] <gonzo_> could you sneek a short collinear (X50) onto the top of the TV ant pole?
[09:24] <Vaizki> x50 is not exactly inconspicuous
[09:24] <Vaizki> my wife spotted it right away :)
[09:24] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: potentially
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[09:25] <BARC> Morning all
[09:25] <gonzo_> when in the air ants look far smaller
[09:25] <fsphil> yeah it looks fine up on the roof
[09:26] <BARC> Just wanted to stop by and say a huge thank you for everyone listening in last Thursday
[09:26] <fsphil> only looks odd if you have two next to eachother
[09:26] <BARC> Really appreciate the help
[09:26] <gonzo_> long time ago was doing maint at a freinds. His old dear went mad about the antenna that was filling the whole garden. And they she wasn't having that up there. She would not believe that it was the one that had been on the chimney for years
[09:26] <gonzo_> (6mtr 3ele)
[09:26] <AndyEsser> fsphil: so you reckon I could get away with a 137MHz colinear?
[09:27] <fsphil> well, you might get fading from satellites
[09:27] <BARC> Thanks in particular to Mark, daveake and Upu for help on the day and in the run up
[09:27] <gonzo_> BARC, how did the recoveries go?
[09:27] <BARC> everything recovered gonzo_
[09:27] <fsphil> the colinears seem to have nulls at certain altitudes, which the satellite will pass through as it goes overhead
[09:27] <gonzo_> did they all get airborne eventually
[09:27] <BARC> some incredible footage, and the teams all seemed to have a great day
[09:28] <Vaizki> gonzo_/fsphil: umm where do you think I put the X50 if not the roof?
[09:28] <BARC> three trees to climb
[09:28] <BARC> but everything back safe and sound
[09:28] <fsphil> Vaizki: you need a taller house, helps hide antennas :)
[09:29] <gonzo_> a very ambitious project and I think you did better than we all expected
[09:29] <gonzo_> ah, having a tree climber (or a sheeky chainsaw) helps
[09:29] <BARC> haha, good to hear it
[09:30] <Vaizki> well it's already 3 stories high but on the side of a "hill" so that when approaching from the road above you are almost at the highest floor level :)
[09:30] <BARC> Yes, I'm the team tree climber, two of them were pretty sizeable
[09:30] <Vaizki> I'm usually the sizeable team member
[09:30] <Vaizki> mmm.. donuts..
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[09:33] <BARC> http://imgur.com/vyP4gCV
[09:33] <BARC> I'll try to get a few from launches uploaded as soon as my feet hit the ground here
[09:33] <gonzo__> I appreciate that manpower on site would have been at a premium, but keeping some comms in this channel really helps the tracking community organise itself
[09:33] <daveake> launching soon
[09:33] <BARC> still running around chasing up loose ends
[09:33] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: that is a great idea i think
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[09:34] <Vaizki> SM0ULC-Reb, hmm what? I usually don't have great ideas so bad in spotting them!
[09:34] <BARC> Understood gonzo, won't be doing that many in one go again soon and will hopefully have some more hands on deck should we ever be daft enough to try again!
[09:36] <gonzo__> glad to hear that the schools had a good time
[09:37] <BARC> Thanks, yes very positive feedback so far and the pictures coming back are looking great
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[09:38] <BARC> Like I say, as soon as I get a chance I'll share round some of the results
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[09:38] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: about sharing ais from the governtment
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[09:39] <Vaizki> ah. ok. not my idea. that explains it :)
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[09:40] <swaledale___> no 868 here, might catch pi434
[09:40] <AndyEsser> X50 ordered :)
[09:40] <AndyEsser> I might actually be able to pick something up next time I try to track
[09:40] <Geoff-G8DHE_> There off
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[09:41] <daveake> up
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[09:41] <daveake> blimey that was a bit gusty out in the field. We filled at the front of the house where there's shelter
[09:42] <craag> has anybody tried getting dl-fldigi running on 16.04 yet?
[09:42] <daveake> Opted to walk right down to the end of the field where there's tree cover, but halfway down the wind stopped so I launched
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[09:42] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah first field image
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[09:42] <fsphil> nice to see Dereck The Painter getting some exposure
[09:43] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Hope he wasn't there for paiting the balloon!
[09:43] <Geoff-G8DHE_> painting even
[09:43] leo_ (6ddc098e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.220.9.142) joined #highaltitude.
[09:43] <craag> when my monitor isn't big enough for the resolution of live pics over ISM from a HAB, I think it's time to upgrade..
[09:44] <fsphil> hah
[09:44] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:44] <daveake> lol
[09:44] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ctrl- helps a lot of them ;-)
[09:44] <PE2BZ> The green, green grass of home...
[09:44] <gonzo__> wow, big images. I need a bigger monitor
[09:44] <gonzo__> there is a corner of every field.....
[09:45] <daveake> Last minute panic when the pix were upside down .... I'd rotated them because the Sony camera is upside down relative to the Omni, but due to a Sony/firmware/software bug, I switched cameras back to the Omni last night
[09:45] <gonzo__> (hmm, snap, craag)
[09:45] <daveake> Given the choice of editing the config and restarting, or rotating the camera, I went for the duct tape solution
[09:45] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: why not aim bigger? http://imgur.com/QR3231T Swedish company rushing to "replace" a 320m high tower that fell yesterday
[09:46] <swaledale___> 3 watering cans for the gardeners dave?
[09:46] <SM0ULC-Reb> daveake: really nice pic, first aloft! :)
[09:47] <leo_> are there 2 payloads?
[09:47] <daveake> one payload
[09:48] <daveake> Pi Zero 1.3 doing lora and rtty with Upu's new zero-sized combo board
[09:48] <leo_> thanks
[09:48] <SM0ULC-Reb> leo_: i recommende you to get a real irc-client
[09:49] <dbrooke> nice to see missing pixels get back filled
[09:49] <AndyEsser> no comic sans font? tsk tsk
[09:50] <leo_> will do - but in the mean time great live pictures
[09:52] G4YHE (56171653@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.23.22.83) joined #highaltitude.
[09:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BK-Ostvest2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BK-Ostvest2
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[09:56] <gonzo__> are you chasing dave?
[09:57] SushiKenBrown (~quassel@cmr-208-124-174-194.cr.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:57] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Think he has other ideas
[09:58] <daveake> Eventually ... 4 hour flight no need to go yet
[09:59] <daveake> Just sorted out a second gateway as the one in my office, connected to a pos wideband thing in the loft, has given up
[09:59] <craag> get your net ready gonzo__
[09:59] <daveake> I'll take this one outside in a mo
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[10:00] astrotutor (50e50c13@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.229.12.19) joined #highaltitude.
[10:01] <gonzo__> if someone shouts 'Pull' when it's in range.....
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[10:04] <Geoff-G8DHE_> starting to see packets on 868 it seems not decoding yet
[10:05] <fsphil> all fine server side
[10:07] <pjm> Geoff-G8DHE_, hi, whats the 868MHz freq? I can have a look here
[10:08] <Geoff-G8DHE_> 869.850 LoRa you really need the Gateway software
[10:08] <pjm> thanks, which payload is it?
[10:08] <Geoff-G8DHE_> PI868
[10:08] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Mode 3 if using the Gateway
[10:09] <pjm> thanks
[10:10] <swaledale___> assume the 434 lora boards cant receive 868 or can they?
[10:10] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Nope
[10:10] <daveake> right, should be back up here now. Had to quickly sort out aerials/gateway/wifi/batteries in the garden
[10:11] <pjm> what sort of mod is it, some FSK or a xPSK?
[10:12] <PE2BZ> swaledale____ perhaps they can. I am currently trying, and it picks up bad CRC and bad packets from frequencies up to 40 kHz below. Now I turned of AFC and hope PI868 gets in ragen
[10:13] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Its LoRa spreadspectrum chirp style
[10:13] <Geoff-G8DHE_> 250KHz bandwidth
[10:13] <PE2BZ> daveake float or burst for your flight ?
[10:14] <daveake> burst hopefully
[10:15] <daveake> tho if it floats, I don't have to chase :)
[10:15] <AndyEsser> Floay McFloatface
[10:15] <fsphil> nice pics
[10:15] <PE2BZ> www dot rent a boat dot com ?
[10:15] <daveake> It'll speed up
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[10:16] <daveake> fsphil or anyone with access - can you set the burst alt to 42km plz ?
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[10:16] <fsphil> I don't think it can be changed in the lz1dev version
[10:16] <daveake> oh, never mind
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[10:17] <daveake> feature request: add burst alt to the flight doc and get it from there
[10:17] <daveake> another feature request: ascent rates aren't constant esp for large balloons underfilled with H2 :)
[10:19] <daveake> btw all the ssdv photos have a gamma of 0.8 applied to improve the contrast
[10:19] mattltm_ (545cd5b7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.92.213.183) joined #highaltitude.
[10:20] <mattltm_> Hi all. What freq is the Pi Zero balloon on?
[10:20] <lz1dev> daveake: change what?
[10:20] <Geoff-G8DHE_> !dial PI434
[10:20] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE_: Latest dials for 03PI434 10(a51c): 03434.25104 MHz
[10:20] <mattltm_> Ta Geoff
[10:23] <daveake> hmmm ... maybe for next time I'll inflate the balloon icon on the ssdv overlay :)
[10:23] <lz1dev> daveake: what needs changing?
[10:23] <daveake> I'd like to be able to specify the burst altitude used by the live prediction
[10:24] <lz1dev> i can change it
[10:24] <daveake> cool
[10:24] <daveake> 42km plz for PI434 and PI868
[10:24] <lz1dev> ascent descent rate?
[10:24] <daveake> (I'm being optimistuc :)
[10:24] <daveake> Ascebnt 4m/s descent 5
[10:25] <daveake> well it'll be 4 average, but h2 and underfilled means 2m/s at the start and 6 or so at the end
[10:25] <lz1dev> whats the tingy called
[10:25] <daveake> PI434
[10:25] <daveake> PI868
[10:25] <lz1dev> both?
[10:25] <daveake> same tracker
[10:25] <daveake> so hopefully yes :)
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[10:26] <leo_> brilliant pictures
[10:26] <lz1dev> done
[10:26] <daveake> cheers lz1dev
[10:27] <daveake> yeah this 868 lora ssdv is very good. I have a ground transmitter requesting missing packets to be resent, so that helps
[10:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> 868 starting to decode .....
[10:27] <daveake> excellent
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[10:27] <pjm> can the 868 MHz stuff be done with an SDR or does it need a lump of hardware?
[10:27] <daveake> sadly h/w
[10:28] <daveake> however it's a £6 lump
[10:28] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ch1: SSDV Packet, Callsign 8-R-B-, Image 125, Packet 18096
[10:28] <daveake> plus a processor of your choice with internet access
[10:28] <AndyEsser> I really need to get back into working on my HAB stuff :(
[10:29] <daveake> someone has written a partial decoder that you could use with an sdr, but it's limited as to what modes it works with. I've not tried it.
[10:29] <Geoff-G8DHE_> pjm, http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/LoRa/
[10:29] <Geoff-G8DHE_> locked on
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[10:33] <daveake> Great
[10:34] <daveake> Anyone on the south coast fancy chasing this for me? :p
[10:34] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Telem Packets = 24
[10:34] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Image Packets = 500
[10:36] <gonzo__> if it comes down withing gattable distance I'm game. But will have to wait till after work
[10:37] <WillDWork> some cracking pictures coming through
[10:38] lbm (50c64ff2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.198.79.242) joined #highaltitude.
[10:38] <mattltm_> Dave, is that new new Pi cam you are using? The 8Mp one?
[10:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SKIPI after 035 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SKIPI
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[10:40] <pjm> daveake, yeah thanks re the info, maybe i should put up a system, already have a rpi nest up in the roof
[10:41] <Geoff-G8DHE_> daveake, is it the same images on 434 ?
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[10:43] <G0WXI> !dial PI4343
[10:43] <SpacenearUS> 03G0WXI: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
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[10:44] <G0WXI> !dial PITS868
[10:44] <SpacenearUS> 03G0WXI: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[10:44] <fsphil> going for the highest live images then daveake?
[10:44] <Geoff-G8DHE_> 869.8415MHz
[10:45] <daveake> yup fsphil
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[10:46] <G0WXI> !dial PI434
[10:46] <SpacenearUS> 03G0WXI: Latest dials for 03PI434 10(a51c): none
[10:48] <G0WXI> !dial BARC
[10:48] <SpacenearUS> 03G0WXI: Latest dials for 03BARC 10(cb09): none
[10:49] <G0WXI> I am remote login to home, can't see PI434, can someone please confirm actual freq, and for BARC, thanks
[10:49] <G0WXI> Perhaps I didn't turn teh pre-amp supply on, doh!!
[10:50] <Geoff-G8DHE_> BARC was earlier and completed
[10:50] <Geoff-G8DHE_> PI434 is 434.251 but I'm not decoding for some reason others are ...
[10:50] <G0WXI> ok, thanks
[10:50] <pjm> cool i can see the SS lump on the FFT on 869.850
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[10:51] <fsphil> lora. it even looks evil :)
[10:54] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Is 0X17 on here ?
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[10:56] <fsphil> bit of choppyness in image 72
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[10:57] <g8fjg> so much qrm on 434.250 ,I can only just see the signal
[10:57] <Geoff-G8DHE_> signals on 434 and 868 are a bit weird strength wise for me at the moment
[10:58] <Geoff-G8DHE_> almost like pasing thru a diffraction layer
[10:58] <g8fjg> I've not received a packet yet on 869
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[11:03] <daveake> Geoff-G8DHE_: Could you disconnect your gateway for a mo please
[11:03] <pjm> i cant get a decode on 434.25 either signal is good tho
[11:03] <Geoff-G8DHE_> can do
[11:03] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Off
[11:04] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yup confused with 434 signal not seen this affect before at all ?
[11:04] <pjm> 150 baud about 750 hz shift
[11:04] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yup 8N2
[11:05] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Audio level appears low for some reason on the dl-fldigi scale and S/N never gets much above 10dB
[11:06] <daveake> ok back on please Geoff-G8DHE_
[11:06] <Geoff-G8DHE_> On
[11:06] <gonzo__> prediction is going north, too far for me to go chasing with the time I have this eve
[11:07] <g8fjg> 300 baud?
[11:07] <Geoff-G8DHE_> OX17 and G8KNN are Rx OK it seems
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[11:08] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yes 300baud duh
[11:08] <daveake> Geoffis your gateway maxing out in the upload thread section ?
[11:08] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Not that I can see here
[11:08] <daveake> I'm having trouble uploading. fsphil has checked the server side and that seems fine.
[11:08] <daveake> OK I wonder if my internet is throttling
[11:09] <Geoff-G8DHE_> SSDV 11000000
[11:09] <daveake> cool
[11:09] <SM0ULC-Reb> daveake: how much downlink-bw left over for resending data?
[11:09] <Geoff-G8DHE_> they are coming at a rate I cant see the log area its scrolling to fast!
[11:09] <daveake> mine is queueing up as soon as I start it
[11:10] <daveake> :)
[11:10] <pjm> LOL I thought that it sounded a quick 150 baud!
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[11:11] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Your bandwidth seems to have reduced since you got to Old Gore .. but maybe more data being sent ?
[11:11] <daveake> I wasn't doing 868 before the move
[11:11] <daveake> yes sending much more data these days
[11:12] <Geoff-G8DHE_> are you on ADSL or GSM ?
[11:12] <daveake> right I'm going to try and get a gateway connected via 4G
[11:12] <daveake> FTTC but long way to cabinet
[11:12] <Geoff-G8DHE_> right
[11:12] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Don't have that problem I can see the Cabinet here
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[11:14] Action: craag doesn't have a cabinet here at the office, 4.5km straight run to the exchange.
[11:14] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Got a feeling the camera is focused a lot less thah infinity as well a bit blurred
[11:15] <Geoff-G8DHE_> shots at ground level are sharp however
[11:19] Action: SM0ULC-Reb looks at the non-briliiant expensive camera from Logitech where infinity start is located at 4m.
[11:20] Action: AndyEsser has fibre from the exchange terminating about 2 ft from his desk
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[11:20] <Geoff-G8DHE_> * where do people store paper work without a cabinet ?
[11:21] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE_: It's a long walk if you don't like google docs ;)
[11:21] <adamgreig> AndyEsser: oh yea, what speeds are you getting?
[11:21] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: it's only a 20/20 line - on a 100 mbit bearer
[11:21] <adamgreig> i'm miles from the nearest bt exchange, sucks http://www.speedtest.net/result/4859147800.png
[11:21] <AndyEsser> but we ge tthe full 20/20
[11:22] <adamgreig> of course I also have gigabit ethernet to my desk that's wired into JANET
[11:23] <AndyEsser> having looked at our internet usage in the office, I couldn't justify going above 20/20 yet - but maybe one day :)
[11:23] <AndyEsser> and to get it onto a gigabit bear is a case of switching out the SFPs at each end :)
[11:23] <AndyEsser> s/bear/bearer
[11:24] <fsphil> internet with claws
[11:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> oops
[11:27] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: fiber is nice. kind of unlimited powah ;)
[11:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> 434 gone
[11:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> faded out over a seond
[11:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> second
[11:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> 868 OK
[11:28] <daveake> hmm it would help if my mifi didn't have a flat battery :/
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[11:30] <gonzo__> write it out 10o times
[11:30] <gonzo__> 100
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[11:37] <AndyEsser> SM0ULC-Reb: we had to pay a small fortune for it (including the £3000 government rebate)
[11:37] <AndyEsser> but it future proofs us at least
[11:37] <daveake> right, sorted at last
[11:37] <AndyEsser> and since it carries our SIP trunks - needs to be rock solid
[11:37] <fsphil> isle of wight there?
[11:37] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: ah, abount 2000 euro in sweden. some can get it for 1500.
[11:37] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Looks like it
[11:38] <AndyEsser> SM0ULC-Reb: we paid about £3000 (so £6000 total)
[11:38] <AndyEsser> and it costs us about £300/month
[11:38] <AndyEsser> and had to deal with BT OpenReach (shudder)
[11:39] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: ah, about 25 euro here a month for 100/10 then. it's a capped 1 gbit.
[11:40] <daveake> I'll call EE tomorrow see what they can do for 100GB/month 4G home broadband
[11:40] <daveake> Plusnet must be throttling - this data rate, even with the overheads, can't be anywhere near the uplink bandwidth available
[11:42] <AndyEsser> SM0ULC-Reb: it's business level broadband here - we can't get fibre direct to properties for residential really
[11:43] <AndyEsser> SM0ULC-Reb: presume you're in one of the scandinavian countires?
[11:43] <AndyEsser> countries*
[11:43] <daveake> Hmm that balloon axis looks like I didn't rescale it :/
[11:43] <daveake> that'll be fun
[11:43] <mattbrejza> is this running with ARQ?
[11:44] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: sweden, the country where it is impossible to dig in the ground 40% of the year
[11:44] <mattbrejza> (seems not)
[11:44] <astrotutor> Isle of Wight below, I think.
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[11:45] <Northants> Anyone have the BARC freq please ?
[11:46] <fsphil> I think we're going to need a bigger ssdv page
[11:46] <fsphil> Northants: it's already landed
[11:46] <daveake> I pity the uploader of that little image next to mine :)
[11:47] <AndyEsser> is it possible to filter based on payload name?
[11:47] <fsphil> lol
[11:47] <jakeio> That'd be me daveake...
[11:47] <fsphil> AndyEsser: http://ssdv.habhub.org/PI868
[11:47] <AndyEsser> fsphil: ta
[11:47] <daveake> sorry :)
[11:47] <jakeio> No problem!
[11:47] <BARC> Northants, we're not in the air right now
[11:47] <daveake> I think I forgot to rescale the balloon altitude axis so I'm expecting the balloon to make its way off the top of the pictures at some point :-)
[11:48] <jakeio> Haha, that'll be great!
[11:48] <fsphil> there is one on 434.250 though
[11:48] <AndyEsser> up up and away
[11:48] <Northants> Pants... thanks for that.... I can't here 434.25 for PITS too...... QRM this way
[11:48] <jakeio> What altitude do you expect to hit? About 40k?
[11:48] <daveake> probably more
[11:48] <daveake> 42 ish
[11:48] <edmoore> smaller pics with less jpg probably make sense now
[11:48] <daveake> +/- Hwoyee QC factor
[11:49] <fsphil> and some extra woo
[11:49] <gonzo__> +mexican correction factor
[11:49] Action: daveake checks code
[11:49] <daveake> nope :)
[11:49] <fsphil> sporadic e
[11:49] <gonzo__> is that occasional yorkshire?
[11:49] <edmoore> cos the pics are nice and big but still look like they're taken with a potato
[11:50] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Think the focus was set on the ground which are nice and sharp ...
[11:50] <edmoore> fail
[11:50] <daveake> I didn't set the focus
[11:51] <daveake> they're supposed to be fixed focus something-infinity
[11:51] <edmoore> maybe just potato quality then
[11:51] <daveake> unlike the new Sony one which has a close focus
[11:51] <fsphil> the jpeg quantisation isn't helping
[11:51] <daveake> yup
[11:51] <mattbrejza> whats that fancy new image compression algorithm
[11:51] <mattbrejza> ?
[11:52] <edmoore> potato
[11:52] <adamgreig> there are so many.. :p
[11:52] <mattbrejza> if anyone was bored and wanted something to do
[11:52] <adamgreig> not sure about 3.5 months being a tall order to learn the advanced material for someone who's already got an intermediate
[11:52] <mattbrejza> i remember a site with a slide bar to compare with jpg
[11:52] <adamgreig> (re recent mailing list post)
[11:52] <AndyEsser> TGA with RLE :)
[11:52] <daveake> I chose the 1600g that had the most faded label on the box
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[11:52] <adamgreig> daveake: hehe
[11:52] <edmoore> 3.5 minutes i think was more accurate
[11:52] <edmoore> memorise some Q-codes
[11:52] <edmoore> voila
[11:52] <fsphil> there's webp, bgp (h264 in disguise) and probably others
[11:52] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: I think it might've been crossed wires with me asking for resources - might have come across that I Wanted to do the intermediate/advanced from scratch
[11:53] <adamgreig> honestly you might as well
[11:53] <adamgreig> as ed says, 3.5 minutes is not far off
[11:53] <mattbrejza> i think bgp is what i was thinking of
[11:53] <adamgreig> it's mostly q codes and what band does the F layer refract or whatever
[11:53] <fsphil> bgp requires ffmpeg. a little heavy
[11:54] <adamgreig> at least you could do foundation+intermediate together
[11:54] <fsphil> though it is rather good
[11:54] <adamgreig> intermediate lets you build your own radios which foundation doesn't
[11:54] <mattbrejza> even if it takes 1sec to encode an image, thats still ok?
[11:54] <fsphil> lots of nasty patents too most likely
[11:54] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: I'd like that if it's possible - but need to find time to study
[11:54] <jakeio> Erm, I've been working on my power supply for my payload recently, and I've got this RS-Online power pack I bought ages ago when I was making Pi google glasses (don't ask), it's 5200mAh (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/power-banks/7757508/?origin=null|fp&cm_sp=featureproducts-_-FeaturedProductsContent-_-7757508) but lists operating temperature at 0-35 degrees C, is that figure given as a protect the seller sort of thing.
[11:54] <mattbrejza> hmm true
[11:55] <gonzo__> Can't you build from commercial kits?
[11:55] <adamgreig> yea it's probably fine jakeio
[11:55] <adamgreig> hmm maybe you can do commercial kits with foundation but not sure
[11:55] <jakeio> I know it'll be less efficient at low temperatures as the internal resistance will rise.
[11:55] <adamgreig> but where's the fun in that
[11:55] <adamgreig> intermediate is really not much more than foundation, just you have to do some more practicals
[11:55] <adamgreig> having said all that, I don't know if there's actually enough time to sit the exams at the conf
[11:55] <adamgreig> should be though.. you can do them back to back
[11:55] <adamgreig> all 3 back to back now actually
[11:55] <AndyEsser> and miss the rest of the conf :)
[11:56] <edmoore> can you?
[11:56] <edmoore> (all 3 at once)
[11:56] <adamgreig> you can now
[11:56] <adamgreig> wait hmmmm
[11:56] <adamgreig> I don't see why not? you're now able to arrange the advanced any time, rather than at set dates
[11:56] <adamgreig> don't _think_ you need to have passed intermediate to sit advanced
[11:56] <adamgreig> but you'd need to pass intermediate to get the full licence
[11:56] <gonzo__> the silly rule that you couldn't sit the full, till you had the pass cert from the previous, is gone??
[11:56] <adamgreig> not sure, would need to check that one
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[11:57] <adamgreig> when I did it there wasn't much question as the advanceds where only on set dates
[11:57] <gonzo__> I did ask the course people at our club, wrt offering exam only days
[11:57] <gonzo__> that I believe has changed, It;'s on demand now
[11:57] <jakeio> Thanks adamgreig btw.
[11:58] <gonzo__> the advanced exam that is
[11:58] <adamgreig> yea it is
[11:58] <craag> The process for applying for Advanced used to require a candidate number, only issued on completion of your foundation
[11:58] <adamgreig> does it still, do you know?
[11:58] <daveake> fsphil / mattbrejza 1 second for encoding wouldn't matter at all - this is done in advance of needing the next image
[11:58] <edmoore> it *was* the case that one had to have int license before applying for full
[11:58] <craag> however I have heard of people doing all 3 in two days - so might not be the case anymore
[11:58] <edmoore> according to martin
[11:58] <edmoore> when i did it
[11:59] <adamgreig> in the US system you can just keep doing exams until you fail out
[11:59] <gonzo__> feeld like I did mine sooooo long ago
[11:59] <adamgreig> so you can spend a day learning the material then sit all three back to back and walk out with an extra-class licence
[11:59] <adamgreig> 4kW on all bands and a four letter callsign are yours for the taking
[12:00] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Definte refraction layer signals just come back to full strength for me on 434 over last minute or two.
[12:00] <adamgreig> AndyEsser: yea that book is good
[12:01] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: ordered :)
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[12:06] <daveake> uplink working well
[12:10] <mattltm_> As far as I (a registered RSGB assessor) understand it, you still need to sit the Foundation and Intermediate before you can sit your Advanced. Not had anything oficial through to say otherwise.
[12:11] <craag> can sit yes, but can you apply for the Advanced before sitting the Intermediate?
[12:11] <craag> We've had people sit 2 in one night, but not 3, and I can't remember which 2 it was.
[12:12] <craag> Probably intermediate/advanced.
[12:12] <adamgreig> you've always been able to sit foundation+intermediate one after the other (so long as you passed foundation)
[12:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ5RZP-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ5RZP-11
[12:12] <craag> Yeah that's what I thought
[12:12] <adamgreig> I guess if you've passed foundation you have a candidate number with which to apply for advanced exam, so you could easily sit intermediate+advanced
[12:12] <craag> We've had people do that
[12:13] <edmoore> that's what we did
[12:13] <edmoore> put in the advanced application (filled the form) on the eve we did our foundation+int exam
[12:13] <adamgreig> edmoore: didn't you sit foundation+intermediate together then later sit advanced?
[12:13] <adamgreig> yea
[12:13] <edmoore> see above
[12:13] <edmoore> yep
[12:13] <adamgreig> but I'm saying you could do foundation by itself then later do intermediate+advanced together
[12:13] <edmoore> oh, I'm unsure
[12:13] <edmoore> i presume the former is much lower risk
[12:13] <adamgreig> yea I guess so
[12:13] <number10> I did foundation+inter
[12:14] <edmoore> i don't actually rmemeber what my f+i callsigns were
[12:14] <adamgreig> heh
[12:14] <edmoore> i know M0ORE was not available
[12:14] <adamgreig> shame
[12:14] <adamgreig> I had m6agg and 2e0skk
[12:14] <adamgreig> remembering my original US callsign is more of a stretch
[12:14] <edmoore> tho when i suggested it to a cuws member he instantly said 'nah, crap in morse'
[12:14] <adamgreig> something 6 something CZ?
[12:15] <edmoore> 9 dahs ina row or something
[12:15] <adamgreig> AI6CZ
[12:16] <adamgreig> though I still technically have M6AGG and 2E0SKK, whereas AI6CZ was given up to get AD6AM
[12:17] <g8fjg> found somthing wrong with the download...I've changed the DIO0 and DIO5 to 6 and 5 ..whatever that does!! and 900 packets later!!
[12:17] <daveake> excellent :-)
[12:17] <daveake> Those settings just have to match whatever it says on your lora card
[12:18] <daveake> Unfortunately, they changed somewhat
[12:18] <PE2BZ> is the green ring on tracker.habhub.org for the 868 payload ?
[12:18] <daveake> they should be the same, pretty much
[12:18] <g8fjg> error free pictures :-)
[12:18] <daveake> yeah, not bad considering the data rate and only 3 receivers
[12:19] <daveake> that's the uplink working ofc
[12:19] <daveake> fsphil wrote an API for the ssdv server so I can query for missing packets
[12:20] <SM0ULC-Reb> daveake: how much downlink available for resending packets?
[12:22] <daveake> All of it
[12:22] <daveake> The uplink says what packets are missing, and the tracker marks them off for re-sending.
[12:23] <daveake> All packets (sent or resent) go through the same mechanism - new images have all packets marked as "need to send" then it looks for packets so marked
[12:23] <daveake> The uplink just marks them as "need to send" again
[12:25] <SM0ULC-Reb> daveake: ah, just wondered how it was planned if you have a loss of 50% for 10 pics then ok link again, then resending the 50%-10pics again before/after/mixed with new packets from new pics?
[12:26] <daveake> The tracker can handle 3 pictures at once; the ground side only requests repeats for the latest 2 images
[12:26] <AndyEsser> Antenna dispatched :)
[12:26] Action: AndyEsser does little dance
[12:26] <daveake> and the gateway doesn't care what order the packets are in, or even which images they are for
[12:27] <daveake> same for the ssdv server side
[12:27] <SM0ULC-Reb> daveake: okidoki
[12:28] <AndyEsser> daveake: approve of your use of UTC timecodes in your images :)
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[12:29] <daveake> just consistent with telemetry etc
[12:32] <daveake> Well that's an early burst :/
[12:32] <daveake> At least it and saves my embarrassment at the balloon falling off the top of the images :/
[12:33] <edmoore> lol
[12:33] <daveake> At least it saves my embarrassment at the balloon falling off the top of the images :/
[12:34] <edmoore> and
[12:34] <daveake> and that's coming down very slowly
[12:34] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ooh thunder hear was that the burst! ? ;-)
[12:35] <daveake> Might not bother chasing then
[12:35] <daveake> Saw this before with a 1600 that Upu flew ... that one was much slower
[12:35] <fsphil> heading for M0EYT
[12:36] <fsphil> or the channel
[12:36] <AndyEsser> have been chatting to M0EYT this morning - was wondering if he was involved in any of this stuff
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[12:36] <WillDWork> was this balloon from 'the batch'?
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[12:37] <daveake> Might be ... certainly had an old label on the outside
[12:38] <mattbrejza> gueez, what are you using as a parachute? :/
[12:38] <daveake> the balloon :/
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[12:39] <daveake> 12" Estes
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[12:39] <daveake> Long drive
[12:40] <mattbrejza> if it somehow goes further east ill get out the chasebike
[12:40] <garymortimer> afternoon all
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[12:42] <daveake> Good timing. Need pub advice :)
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[12:42] <fsphil> hah
[12:43] <gonzo__> oh nice, 144 152 you can make out the coast. IoW and Portland Bill
[12:43] <daveake> Right, time to get going
[12:43] <garymortimer> Well Dave, they are going into an area I know
[12:44] <gonzo__> I feel a pub guide coming on!
[12:45] <garymortimer> So much choice in the Bath area. Perhaps one of the best areas to target flights at!
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[12:46] <gonzo__> is dave chasing?
[12:47] <g8fjg> New 869 antenna today, made it yesterday! http://i.imgur.com/o1KUskv.jpg
[12:48] <craag> dat tower
[12:48] <fsphil> nice setup
[12:48] Action: AndyEsser has antenna envy
[12:48] <garymortimer> BARC is easy, I would drive the extra and go here https://www.facebook.com/tunnelhouse.inn.7/
[12:48] <garymortimer> Its really really fab
[12:49] <garymortimer> might be a bit far ;-)
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[12:49] <garymortimer> OMG the Wurzels are playing there soon...... The Wurzels playing at The Tunnel House Inn on Saturday 28th May with support band. Last Remaining Tickets for sale Book your tickets online now www.wurzels.tunneltickets.co.uk
[12:49] <g8fjg> I've removed the BIG boys ..the neighbours loved them so much.
[12:50] <garymortimer> See I said it was good
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[12:52] <garymortimer> If the prediction is right those balloons are going into a wonderful area. I used to live in teffont evias. Really really pretty down there. Be sure to pop into teh Fovant badges
[12:52] <garymortimer> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fovant_Badges
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[12:57] <g8fjg> run out of signal lots of errors now
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[12:58] <g8fjg> snr -8's
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[13:01] <jakeio> Damnit, even after manually setting the sampling rate on Pulseaudio, I'm still getting that random speeding up thing!
[13:02] <g8fjg> Once I found my error 9667 image and 303 telem packets decoded
[13:02] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yup looks like I've lost it now as well
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[13:03] <g8fjg> Geoff what freq did you show on LoRa?
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[13:04] <Geoff-G8DHE_> They all vary a lot due to the internal xtal but at the end I was on 869.838
[13:05] <g8fjg> I had 869.8486
[13:05] <fsphil> jakeio: it's returned to haunt me too. but only when the cpu is under heavy load
[13:06] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yes I've noticed this and I find it helps to put the AFC on once in a while as well but not always all the time
[13:07] <jakeio> Well, I find I have to reboot to fix it, sometimes pulseaudio -k
[13:07] <jakeio> and pulseaudio --start works, sometimes not. Very odd.
[13:08] <Geoff-G8DHE_> These were the SSDV images I captured http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2016_Flights/PITS_20160516/om/
[13:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CHANGEME - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CHANGEME
[13:09] <mattbrejza> !whereis CHANGEME
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[13:09] <SpacenearUS> 03mattbrejza: 03CHANGEME is near 03Devon, UK 10(51.10246,-4.15701) at 03-5 meters
[13:10] <garymortimer> Ah a Chivenor balloon launch!
[13:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0RPI_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0RPI_chase
[13:13] <g8fjg> 30 images in the end 23 error free :-))
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[13:17] <AndyEsser> and 10m of rg213 dispatched :)
[13:17] <AndyEsser> new toys soon
[13:20] <gonzo___> have we lost the signals?
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[13:27] <Laurenceb_> richardeoin: yo
[13:27] <Laurenceb_> any luck with UBSEDS-15 pressure calculations?
[13:28] <richardeoin> hey Laurenceb_
[13:29] <Laurenceb_> I see it's in China :D
[13:29] <richardeoin> no this week is exams week, was planning on having a go next week maybe
[13:29] <richardeoin> yup it's made the jump :p
[13:30] <richardeoin> maybe best korea later
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[13:47] <AndyEsser> can anyone recommend a good base station style scanner for HAB tracking? (not looking for handheld)
[13:48] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Just use an SDR and set the bandwidth to look across the 1.6MHz you can then see the RTTY pop up in the display
[13:48] <AndyEsser> Yea, I use an SDR atm
[13:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> That's what I did last Thursday looking for the 25 HAB's not knowing when or where they would appear!
[13:49] <AndyEsser> haha
[13:49] <AndyEsser> I did try to catch some of those
[13:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> As soon as I had a spare VFO and not centered on a peak it was retune that one
[13:49] <AndyEsser> but with the poxy colinear antenna that comes with the SDR, I think it was unlikely I'd find them
[13:49] <swaledale___> AndyEsser which antenna do you use with your SDR?
[13:50] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Oh yes you have to have a sensible aerial but then a scanner is going to need that anyway!
[13:50] <AndyEsser> ^
[13:50] <swaledale___> ah, answer right there
[13:50] <AndyEsser> Well I've just ordered an X50 for home
[13:50] <AndyEsser> so hoping that + my SDR might do better next time someone launches something
[13:50] <fsphil> the antenna is 90% of what you need
[13:50] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Its not a co-linear with the SDR its just a 1/4 wave monopole. A co=linear has several sections phased together to give gain.
[13:50] <AndyEsser> sorry
[13:51] <AndyEsser> "Shitty little thing" would've been more accurate
[13:51] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> NP just wasn't sure if you were aware!
[13:51] <AndyEsser> I was not
[13:51] <fsphil> yeah colinears are quite complex inside
[13:51] <AndyEsser> I had guessed :)
[13:51] <AndyEsser> me bad
[13:51] Action: AndyEsser commits sepuku
[13:52] <fsphil> I need to make one for 869.5 mhz some of these days
[13:52] <swaledale___> is the X50 just a monopole or a colinear then?
[13:52] <fsphil> colinear
[13:52] <DL1SGP> X50 is colinear
[13:52] <DL1SGP> hi folks :D
[13:52] <gonzo___> single band collinears can be quite simple, just a set of verticals, withj some phase delay between. But dual band is more fun
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[13:52] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I'm just using a beam more gain for 868
[13:53] <fsphil> this is for a remote site where I can't aim
[13:53] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Ah right
[13:53] <fsphil> sadly there's very few commercial antennas for this frequency, vs. 434
[13:53] <swaledale___> so to use with both 434 and 868, multiple antennas or will an X50 suit both?
[13:53] <fsphil> my x50 is quite deaf at 869mhz
[13:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Can you just not fix the beam in one direction at the site back to you ?
[13:54] <fsphil> Geoff-G8DHE-M: it's for a repeater, it needs to be omni
[13:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> No an X50 will cover 2m and 70cms as they are 3 times multiple
[13:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> hence the 1/2 wave difference remains the same
[13:56] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Co-linear http://forums.radioreference.com/attachments/amateur-radio-antennas/35027d1323664263-looking-very-simple-antenna-design-my-repeater-440-coaxcolinear.jpg
[13:58] <gonzo___> thaty is nolt clear on whether the WL is free space of dielectric VF
[13:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> its the phase on the cable that matters so yes take dielectric into account
[13:59] <gonzo___> but when it is radiating from the outside as an element, it should be 95%?
[13:59] <fsphil> each section is 1/2 wavelength?
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[14:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Each section is 1/2 wave or multiple and no the velcoity factor is inherently witi the cable once radiated its wave length will be at right angles to the co-ax the cable
[14:02] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Odd multiple that should have said 3, 5 7 etc
[14:02] <fsphil> an array of dipoles
[14:03] <fsphil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipole_antenna#/media/File:Dipole_receiving_antenna_animation_6_800x394x150ms.gif
[14:03] <fsphil> nice animation
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[14:04] <fsphil> wouldn't each element need to be 1/4?
[14:04] <fsphil> oh that would just cancel out each pair
[14:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yes I think it helps to visualise it as circles radiating outwards at rightangles to the axis, freespace is then in "air" but the length of the dipole/raditor is affected by velocity factor which has no impct as its at rightangles.
[14:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> along the length of the dipole axis.
[14:06] <PE2BZ> For 868 MHz and up I ordered a Chinese GSM enhance antenna, from 800 MHz to UMTS was claimed. Out of curiosity.....
[14:06] <PE2BZ> https://goo.gl/photos/tYNBXYp8JXxtWi8c8 is it´s inside
[14:06] <DL1SGP> hee goeden dag PE2BZ :-)
[14:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I'm usding this one https://www.rfsolutions.co.uk/antennas-c8/23db-gsm-yagi-antenna-p162
[14:07] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> That looks like a log-periodic ?
[14:07] <PE2BZ> and it receives 23 cm and 13 cm and with preamp also L-band signals from inmarsat and Irridium
[14:07] <PE2BZ> Indeed a logper
[14:09] <PE2BZ> DL1SGP Wie gehtst Felix ?
[14:10] <Laurenceb_> richardeoin: good luck with the exams :D
[14:10] <swaledale___> is there a recommended non directional antenna for 868 then? What's in one of these? https://www.rfsolutions.co.uk/antennas-c8/outside-antenna-433-868-900-1800-1900-mhz-sma-connector-p128
[14:10] <DL1SGP> goed en met jou, PE2BZ ?
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[14:11] <swaledale___> a whole 3db gain i see
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[14:12] <g8fjg> PE2BZ are you tx on 434.350 ? if yes I'll turn beam
[14:13] <PE2BZ> g8fjg I will set it up, about 3 minutes from now.
[14:14] <g8fjg> Ben ok I'll set up and leave
[14:15] <dbrooke> swaledale___: that's probably directional
[14:17] <PE2BZ> g8fjg I am up and running. 100 mW LoRa mode 1 SSDV on 434.350 MHz from JO21CX
[14:17] <g8fjg> rrr
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[14:18] <PE2BZ> swaledale____ 3 dB is not bad for starting, but what cable (type, length) do you run to the antenna ?
[14:19] <g8fjg> PE2BZ Ben receiver running...I'll leave now .
[14:19] <Geoff-G8DHE_> What LoRa settings are being used then ?
[14:19] <g8fjg> mode1
[14:20] <g8fjg> 73
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[14:21] <Geoff-G8DHE_> OK I'm listening as well
[14:21] <PE2BZ> Geoff-G8DHE_ good afternoon, mode 1 indeed, USB webcam with SSDV transmission. 15 km goes quite well with 100 mW and g8fjg has received 8 packets (some with errors) when conditions where OK
[14:21] <Geoff-G8DHE_> But not a good bearing on the aerial for me as the South Downs are in the way :-(
[14:22] Action: PE2BZ is running Google Maps ... What are South Downs ...
[14:22] <swaledale___> would there be a more suited cable for 868 than used for 434? RG213 for example?
[14:22] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Look for Worthing and there are Chalk hills all the way along the coast which absorb a lot of water and RF :-(
[14:22] <AndyEsser> PE2BZ: a range of Hills spanning Hampshire/Surrey
[14:23] <adamgreig> westflex 103 o/
[14:23] <Geoff-G8DHE_> https://www.google.com/maps/place/72+Cranleigh+Rd,+Worthing,+West+Sussex+BN14+7QW,+UK/@50.8346139,-0.3793239,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4875a2bc5afab2cb:0x05f1fca42e12714a!8m2!3d50.8280173!4d-0.3828022
[14:23] <cm13g09> craag: ping
[14:24] <PE2BZ> swaledale___ what length ?
[14:25] <PE2BZ> RG213 is 21 dB per 100 meter at 900 MHz. That means with 14 meter RG213 you loose the gain of the antenna in the cable loss
[14:27] <swaledale___> about 5m probbly
[14:27] <swaledale___> probably
[14:27] <swaledale___> but same cable is fine for 434 and 868 i take it
[14:29] <PE2BZ> For 5 meter RG213 will be fine. However, antenna height gives much better reception, are you able to mount the antenna high as possible and use only 5 meter Coax ?
[14:29] <mfa298> swaledale___: the general rule is get the best coax you can afford, generally the loss/m goes up with frequency, better coax will have a lower loss/m for a given frequency.
[14:30] <PE2BZ> Geoff-G8DHE_ but to me it seems that in direction North East there is not much in the way ?
[14:30] <swaledale___> so assuming money no object, the best coax is?
[14:30] <fsphil> no coax :)
[14:30] <swaledale___> lol
[14:30] <fsphil> put the radio at the antenna
[14:31] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Not true :-( Hills 100 to 200 metres full of water.
[14:31] <mfa298> un-managable, some of the lower loss coaxes are pretty large and inflexible.
[14:31] <fsphil> https://www.balarad.net/ -- interesting guide on making a collinear
[14:31] <swaledale___> ok, assuming 10m, what would you buy?
[14:31] <fsphil> didn't think of putting a 50ohm resistor at the top end
[14:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VA2RMG-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VA2RMG-11
[14:32] <PE2BZ> Geoff-G8DHE_ then we should arrange a large floating reflecting balloon.... Just between the two of us...
[14:33] <mfa298> the westflex 103 that adamgreig mentioned above is probably the next step up from rg213, but it's not as mangable, I think some of the ecoflex options are comparable as well.
[14:33] <Geoff-G8DHE_> I often think that! Its why I don't here most HAB flights until they are about 4-6Km high if they are to the North of me, on the otherhand I can see out to Paris to the South!
[14:34] <mfa298> after that I suspect you're getting into the realm of the coax being too un-managable for a 5m run.
[14:35] <adamgreig> WF103 is not so bad
[14:35] <adamgreig> I don't think it's significantly mroe annoying than RG213
[14:35] <adamgreig> I guess maybe a bit because the core tends to be more solid
[14:35] <adamgreig> same sort of diameter though
[14:35] <mfa298> and as PE2BZ said for a 5m run RG213 is likely more than acceptable at 868MHz
[14:35] <Geoff-G8DHE_> PE2BZ, This is the view I have https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8217585,-0.3929374,138a,20y,45.7h,83.05t/data=!3m1!1e3
[14:36] <mfa298> I found soldering the plugs on to W103 to be a pain, larger core and the airspaced dialectric that melts with almost no heating.
[14:37] <PE2BZ> Geoff-G8DHE_ Awsome view, but indeed not good for DX ;-(
[14:38] <AndyEsser> is soldering plugs onto RG213 a pain?
[14:38] <adamgreig> yes
[14:38] <adamgreig> not as much as wf103 admittedly
[14:38] <AndyEsser> I foresee much anger in my future then
[14:38] <adamgreig> use crimp connectors instead
[14:39] <edmoore> or a jbc iron
[14:39] <edmoore> cheaper option
[14:39] <edmoore> (this may or may not be correct)
[14:39] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: http://www.amphenolrf.com/172102.html
[14:39] <AndyEsser> something like that?
[14:39] <PE2BZ> Geoff-G8DHE_ Did not know that kind of view in Google maps. My view: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0089504,4.2105087,135a,20y,243.73h,83.05t/data=!3m1!1e3
[14:40] <Laurenceb_> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/70501-Best-Fire-Ant-poison-ever!
[14:40] <adamgreig> crimp connectors still nicer than soldering with a really good iron i think
[14:40] <adamgreig> that looks nice AndyEsser
[14:41] <adamgreig> you'll need a crimp tool
[14:41] <fsphil> AndyEsser: what's the socket on your radio? you might need an adaptor
[14:41] <adamgreig> regardless I commend using n plugs on the coax and then an adapter if necessary
[14:42] <fsphil> yeah N everywhere
[14:42] <AndyEsser> fsphil: N-type on the SDR
[14:42] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Oh for a view like that when I play radio from home!
[14:42] <fsphil> that's fairly unusual. what's the model?
[14:42] <AndyEsser> RTL SDR
[14:42] <AndyEsser> https://www.google.com/maps/@53.196495,-2.8961899,115a,20y,243.73h,83.05t/data=!3m1!1e3
[14:42] <AndyEsser> my view - since we seem to be posting them
[14:42] <Geoff-G8DHE_> On the otherhand I can get up on the hills themselves and take all the gear along and then :-)
[14:43] <adamgreig> your rtl sdr has an n connector?
[14:43] <AndyEsser> I'm _almost_ certain...
[14:43] <adamgreig> that an aftermarket mod?
[14:43] <adamgreig> is the connector about the size of your thumb?
[14:43] <AndyEsser> I'm sure it said it had an n-type
[14:43] <fsphil> take a pic
[14:43] <AndyEsser> fsphil: it's at home
[14:43] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: no - about 6-7mm across
[14:43] <adamgreig> that ain't n-type
[14:43] <fsphil> probably sma
[14:44] <adamgreig> if you're lucky
[14:44] <edmoore> lol
[14:44] <AndyEsser> F-connector
[14:44] <AndyEsser> balls
[14:44] <adamgreig> probably mcx or something else gross
[14:44] <adamgreig> f
[14:44] <adamgreig> lol
[14:44] <AndyEsser> knew I got my letters wrong
[14:44] <edmoore> at N-type on an sdr
[14:44] <adamgreig> makes sense
[14:44] <edmoore> an rtl-sdr even
[14:44] <AndyEsser> sorry
[14:44] <mfa298> !wiki rf_connectors
[14:44] <SpacenearUS> 03mfa298: Wiki page 03rf_connectors (guides) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:rf_connectors
[14:44] <edmoore> on a similar note i'm going to put carbon-carbon brake discs on my lada
[14:44] <edmoore> brb
[14:44] <mfa298> ^^ for some of the common ones
[14:45] <PE2BZ> brb ? That would be fast mounting brake discs
[14:45] <edmoore> i'm fast
[14:45] <mfa298> although I see I never managed pictures for N type
[14:45] <Geoff-G8DHE_> you like the sewage works than ! AndyEsser
[14:45] <edmoore> i have a snapon ratchet
[14:45] <edmoore> that makes me a great mechanic
[14:45] <AndyEsser> Geoff-G8DHE_: don't even know they're there tbh - can't see them from the road, and never had any smell issues
[14:45] <AndyEsser> not like when I was in Cambridge
[14:46] Action: AndyEsser adds F-to-N adapter to shopping list
[14:46] <edmoore> no
[14:46] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[14:46] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Watch out for Chinese adaptors as well ! http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/connectors/index.php?ind=0
[14:46] <edmoore> no don't
[14:46] <edmoore> take off the F
[14:46] <edmoore> replace it with an SMA
[14:46] <adamgreig> F isn't a real connector
[14:46] <edmoore> then do sma-N
[14:46] <edmoore> F is just garbage
[14:46] <edmoore> cast it into the pit of eyes
[14:47] <AndyEsser> well now I'm confused
[14:47] <AndyEsser> let me check something
[14:47] <AndyEsser> right - I need to go and bathe in coffee and not speak in here for a while
[14:47] <AndyEsser> SMA F (as in female) connector
[14:47] <AndyEsser> on the RTL
[14:47] <PE2BZ> One more (realtime) view ? http://109.109.112.170:10000/snap.jpg
[14:48] <adamgreig> hah
[14:48] <adamgreig> are you sure this time :P
[14:48] <AndyEsser> no
[14:48] <AndyEsser> haha
[14:48] <adamgreig> female SMA would be reasonable but quite surprising
[14:48] <mfa298> then make sure you have an SMA - N adapter rather than the spawn of satan version the RP-SMA - N
[14:48] <adamgreig> where did you buy the rtl-sdr from?
[14:48] <AndyEsser> " a 1 PPM temperature compensated oscillator (TCXO), SMA F connector, aluminium case with passive cooling"
[14:48] <edmoore> i wonder if bathing in coffee gives you a fake tan
[14:48] <PE2BZ> SMA
[14:48] <adamgreig> oh that sounds quite legit
[14:48] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: http://www.rtl-sdr.com/buy-rtl-sdr-dvb-t-dongles/
[14:48] <adamgreig> wow that sounds less legit
[14:48] <adamgreig> but ok :P
[14:49] <adamgreig> yea so you're ok
[14:49] <adamgreig> you just need to get an SMA to N adapter
[14:49] <Geoff-G8DHE_> PE2BZ, Ah nice!
[14:49] <adamgreig> SMA male to N female
[14:49] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: assuming I bought male N types ;)
[14:49] <mfa298> AndyEsser: check that wiki link above, it's at least got some pictures of SMA plugs and sockets you can compare to.
[14:49] <Laurenceb_> airspy is probably as good as that
[14:49] <AndyEsser> mfa298: yea that's what I was looking at that then lead me to go back and check
[14:49] <adamgreig> put male N on the cables.
[14:49] <Laurenceb_> the TCXO does wander a little
[14:50] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb_: only thing I've managed to use it for atm is my own payload 20cm away and it does the job
[14:50] <Laurenceb_> heh
[14:50] <AndyEsser> hopefully with the new antenna I'll be able to track an extra payload and see how it behaves properly
[14:50] <Laurenceb_> I struggled with airspy for a while until I realised all the default amp setting were screwy
[14:50] <PE2BZ> Geoff-G8DHE_ a sponsored Bosch HD camera at my work. A 52 m high building, not suitable for SDR reception. But the location at 27 m is, with some use of SAW filters and HAB amps.
[14:53] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Oh very nice!
[14:53] <mfa298> AndyEsser: for your earlier question about base station scanner, I'd be tempted to suggest one of the better SDR's, or if you're going for the radio exams potentially consider a multimode multiband amateur radio.
[14:55] <gonzo___> dave is close to the predicted landing spot
[14:55] <gonzo___> wonder if it is still txing. As pjm recons it just stopped, rather than faded out.
[14:56] <AndyEsser> mfa298: and just not pressing TX until I've done the xams?
[14:56] <AndyEsser> exams*
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[14:59] <mfa298> AndyEsser: if you went the amateur radio route. They can make for good receivers, although would tend to be limited to one balloon at a time but means you can use the license once you've got it (although that's a novel concept around here)
[14:59] <AndyEsser> mfa298: any suggestions in that category then?
[14:59] <russss> the traditional choice is the FT-817
[15:00] <AndyEsser> I'd rather have a hardware radio for once I've gotten my license - and if I can just that for HAB as well, great
[15:00] <adamgreig> you can also use SDRs that have a transmit function under your amateur licence
[15:00] <adamgreig> without losing out on having MHz of bandwidth and so on
[15:00] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah daveake is out with his FT817 tracking it now
[15:00] <adamgreig> amateur radios are sooo expensive for 3kHz of voice quality :P
[15:00] <AndyEsser> I don't do automated tracking etc like the big buys in here so only tracking one at a time would be fine :)
[15:00] <adamgreig> the FT817 is nice though. but you're talking about £500..
[15:01] <gonzo___> but it gets you very far into the hobby
[15:01] <AndyEsser> it'll be a worthwile investment hopefully if I commit and get my licenses
[15:01] <AndyEsser> just like the £400 I dropped on my scope
[15:01] <AndyEsser> which... I haven't touched since buying
[15:01] <gonzo___> 817's always sell afterwards
[15:02] <adamgreig> always until yaesu finally release a new model after 20 years of sitting on their bums
[15:02] <mfa298> and they keep their value, infact if I could sell my ft817 for £500 I'd be in profit from when I bought it 2nd hand 6-7 years ago
[15:02] <adamgreig> they've already revamped the big boy in the range so hard to believe the 817 won't be soon
[15:02] <russss> the 817 is a good radio with an atrocious user interface
[15:02] <adamgreig> so long as you only want 5W output too :P
[15:03] <adamgreig> don't get me wrong, I use an 817 a lot, it's nice, it's ideal for portable hab tracking
[15:03] <adamgreig> i think really a good sdr is even more ideal for hab tracking and other radios are better for ham op
[15:03] <gonzo___> it's one of the things that everyone has had, and most would never get rid of
[15:04] <russss> I haven't used mine in years. I'm not sure about SDR for transmit though (at reasonable power levels). Most of the cheaper ones need external filtering.
[15:04] <mfa298> the other advantage somethign like the 817 gives you is car - car comms when chasing and use the sdr for receiving the balloon
[15:04] <AndyEsser> Well I'll see how I get on with the exams and whatnot, and then maybe look at investing
[15:05] <adamgreig> russss: and external amplifiers, so..
[15:05] <russss> at which point you probably can't do that on a foundation license
[15:05] <adamgreig> true
[15:05] <adamgreig> the 817 is pretty ideal for just a foundation licence
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[15:09] <AndyEsser> is the only difference between Foundation and Intermediate that the maximum transmit power is 50W instead of 10W?
[15:09] <craag> And you can legally use rf equipment that you've designed+built
[15:10] <mfa298> you might have a couple extra bands as well
[15:10] <craag> (hence the extra practical syllabus for intermediate)
[15:10] <AndyEsser> gotcha
[15:10] <AndyEsser> I'm not quite at the stage of designing my own radios yet :)
[15:11] <edmoore> https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xap1/t51.2885-15/e15/11199504_847722275310910_1771308775_n.jpg
[15:12] <AndyEsser> edmoore: in fact, I remember at Cranleigh designing the PCB for a radio
[15:12] <AndyEsser> many moons ago
[15:12] <craag> getting towards advanced, which allows international use and unattended operation, is probably the most common reason for doing intermediate
[15:12] <craag> (sounds stupid but rather true, intermediate is a weird half-step in the middle)
[15:12] <AndyEsser> what are examples of unattended operation? as a repeater?
[15:12] <AndyEsser> or I could be here in my office, and connect back home and transmit data over it?
[15:13] <craag> not quite, but IP controlled kit or such
[15:13] <craag> yes exactly
[15:13] <AndyEsser> which is definitely something I'd want to do
[15:13] <craag> :D
[15:13] <craag> You need advanced for that
[15:13] <edmoore> a repeater is non-compliant with the license anyway i believe
[15:13] <AndyEsser> so ok - work towards the foundation, hopefully be confident enough with that soon enough that I feel I could also do Intermediate at UKHAS conference
[15:13] <AndyEsser> and then work towards Advanced after that
[15:14] <craag> Would you be wanting to do both at ukhas then?
[15:14] <adamgreig> or see how you feel about the intermediate questions while prepping for foundation, could consider doing them together
[15:14] <AndyEsser> If there is the option
[15:14] <AndyEsser> as has been discussed in here and on the mailing list
[15:14] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: that's what I meant above
[15:15] <adamgreig> oh I see yes
[15:15] <adamgreig> ok
[15:15] <AndyEsser> as long as I feel I had a good enough grasp of foundation, move onto studying intermediate as well
[15:15] <AndyEsser> and doing both at UKHAS
[15:15] <adamgreig> depends if they can do two together at the conference I guess
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[15:15] <mfa298> AndyEsser: there used to be some sample papers on the rsgb site so you can see how simple the exams are (i'm assuming they're still up there)
[15:15] <craag> edmoore: it gets murky.. potentially if you take responsibility for all retransmitted content, not causing undue interference to others, and are in control, I think it's legal. (my very unpopular opinion)
[15:15] <AndyEsser> So... hypothetical question
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[15:16] <AndyEsser> lets say I have a HAB in the air
[15:16] <AndyEsser> which has an uplink
[15:16] <edmoore> but in general most repeaters operate under an NoV right?
[15:16] <craag> hah
[15:16] <AndyEsser> I transmit to that from my base station at home
[15:16] <edmoore> hey AndyEsser
[15:16] <AndyEsser> I can access this ssystem remotely, and send commands up to the HAB
[15:16] <edmoore> why not just start on a less contraversial topic
[15:16] <craag> edmoore: Yes, to split 'control' responsibility, and imply less responsibility for retransmitted content IMO.
[15:16] <edmoore> vim vs emacs or something
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[15:16] <edmoore> we don't appreciate people looking to start fights here
[15:16] <mfa298> edmoore: :)
[15:17] <AndyEsser> which bit is controversial?
[15:17] <craag> Yes this is a touchy one AndyEsser
[15:17] <AndyEsser> HABs with uplinks?
[15:17] <craag> yes
[15:17] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[15:17] <edmoore> using your license for uplinking to habs
[15:17] <edmoore> no the uplinks themselves
[15:17] <edmoore> not the*
[15:17] <AndyEsser> right
[15:17] <mfa298> there was a post on the mailing list about it a few years back.
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[15:17] <edmoore> there have been many over the years
[15:18] <mfa298> I think the ofcom response was err, maybe it's ok, maybe it's not, we're not going to say anything more
[15:18] <edmoore> where is SIBot when you need him
[15:18] <AndyEsser> I want to enquire... but don't want to ruffle feathers
[15:18] <AndyEsser> inquire*
[15:18] <adamgreig> craag: it seems like parrot repeaters and other "not for general access" are very readily ok
[15:18] <adamgreig> but the general access perhaps complicates it?
[15:18] <adamgreig> we have a terrible licence compared to like the FCC Part 97 rules
[15:19] <craag> AndyEsser: PM me ;)
[15:20] <edmoore> i think enquire is right in this context
[15:20] <craag> adamgreig: Once you're allowing anyone to transmit through it, you're then taking responsibility for anything they do/say through it (as it's then being transmitted by your equipment). That's the bit that's legally dangerous IMO.
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[15:21] <mfa298> AndyEsser: this is the potentially useful thread I was thinking of on the subject of uplinks https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ukhas/nDoeUX7OqYs/ZBljNQvARiEJ
[15:22] <edmoore> we have certainly twatted 20W down an antenna for hab uplinks before
[15:22] <mfa298> .... and it is not for
[15:22] <edmoore> 'we' being cusf in my era
[15:22] <mfa298> Ofcom to decide matters of interpretation of a licence.
[15:23] <swaledale___> has dave found his paylaod yet then?
[15:23] <craag> The fact is that unless you can be proved to have caused harmful interference, ofcom don't and won't care.
[15:23] <jakeio> dl-fldigi seems to have stopped uploading to the server.
[15:24] <jakeio> I've just tried to close it and am now on a screen saying it's uploading remaining items.
[15:24] <jakeio> And it's now hanging there.
[15:25] <jakeio> Well.
[15:25] <jakeio> Time to turn it off and on again.
[15:25] <jakeio> :D
[15:25] <AndyEsser> mfa298: cheers
[15:26] <jakeio> And works after killing and restarting. Haha, always the way!
[15:26] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Looks like daveake ha headed to the last prediction
[15:27] <swaledale___> taking bets on a wet landing in that stream
[15:27] <mfa298> jakeio: that seems to happen sometimes if the upload process get's stuck due to something.
[15:28] <jakeio> Thanks mfa298. Well, we'll always have the IT Crowd advice ("Have you tried turning it off and on again?")!
[15:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SPUTKNIC - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SPUTKNIC
[15:28] <jakeio> Anyone ever had a payload land on a road or in a river?
[15:28] <jakeio> Very unlikely I suppose!
[15:29] <Geoff-G8DHE_> daveake, has both, infront of a car, which picked it up and drove home which caused some confusion ;-)
[15:29] <jakeio> Haha, brilliant.
[15:29] <Geoff-G8DHE_> and one or two in the English channel!
[15:30] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Mind you he needs to watch closely this time he is near Axe & Cleaver Lane!
[15:31] <jakeio> Were they on purpose? The English Channel ones? Or were they just mistakes, incorrectly filled balloon, etc.
[15:31] <edmoore> mistakes usually
[15:31] <edmoore> but sometimes you don't care about getting it back
[15:31] <edmoore> usually the case with Picos
[15:31] <fsphil> I've landed one in the north sea, the irish sea and belarus.
[15:31] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Mistakes as I recall testing the Register flights
[15:31] <jakeio> What sorts of things can lead to that? (I hope to avoid them in a fortnight with my launch!)
[15:32] <jakeio> Belarus?
[15:32] <jakeio> Haha.
[15:32] <fsphil> yeah
[15:32] <fsphil> https://www.sanslogic.co.uk/hab/orion-track.png
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[15:32] <mfa298> I think daveake channel landing with the Register flight was bad wind data (the gfs models hadn't been updated)
[15:33] <fsphil> there was never any intention to recover that one, so it's all good
[15:34] <jakeio> I want to buy my helium soon, however, due to the whole "rent a canister" sales system and the fact that the CAA don't reply till T-2 days, do you think it's worth calling them up and saying "hypothetically, are there any issues with this flight as it stands?"
[15:34] <jakeio> SO I don't have to return the helium unused!
[15:34] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah he isin range PI434 has just updated
[15:34] <edmoore> jakeio: no
[15:35] <edmoore> i don't think that will work at all
[15:35] <jakeio> They'll just say they can't say?
[15:35] <adamgreig> they really won't be able to say
[15:35] <swaledale___> jakeio you can usually keep the helium for quite some time
[15:35] <edmoore> no, they'll just say 'we haven't looked at it yet'
[15:35] <edmoore> it's not some conspiracy where they decide but keep the decision to themselves for weeks
[15:35] <jakeio> Haha!
[15:36] <edmoore> it's just some overworked people trying to stay on top of a pile of applications
[15:36] <jakeio> No, I thought, well, they might not say because something could come up, and they wouldn't want to say "Hey, you know we gave you flight permission? Give it back. Something happened."
[15:36] <jakeio> But, fair enough.
[15:37] <jakeio> I'll just cross my fingers.
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[15:37] <mfa298> jakeio: where are you planning on launching from?
[15:37] <jakeio> Monmouth.
[15:37] <edmoore> they'll probably just not issue it if there's some sudden thing
[15:37] <edmoore> on the day
[15:37] <jakeio> Oh yeah, we have to call them before launch don't we...
[15:38] <fsphil> nah, you call the local ATC
[15:38] <fsphil> it's not always required, it'll say on your permission sheet
[15:38] <jakeio> OK. I assume they'll email the permission sheet? Or post?
[15:38] <fsphil> email
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[15:39] <fsphil> pdf
[15:39] <jakeio> OK.
[15:40] <mfa298> at least it looks like you a reasonable distance from any major airports, which is one of the reasons for permission not being given.
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[15:43] <jakeio> I actually have a giant map of the UK's air corridors from my days in the Air Cadets! I should've dug that out!
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[15:43] <swaledale___> looks like daveake picked up PI434
[15:43] <Geoff-G8DHE_> try this in Google Earth in 3D of course! http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/Google_Earth_Tools/index.php?ind=0
[15:44] <AndyEsser> jakeio: do believe someone in here has a handy download of a KML file for Google Earth that has them
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[15:45] <mattbrejza> where someone = google
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[15:46] Nick change: andycamb1 -> andycamb
[15:46] <AyuDag> A5< ?@825B, =0 :0:>9 G0AB>B5 @01>B05B SP9UOB-11 ?
[15:46] <AyuDag> Hello, at what frequency works SP9UOB-11?
[15:47] <jakeio> I don't appear to be anywhere in controlled airspace. Phew!
[15:47] <Geoff-G8DHE_> AyuDag, It says via APRS which sounds correct!
[15:47] <russss> jakeio: these days you can just use https://skyvector.com/
[15:48] <AyuDag> Ok!
[15:48] <jakeio> Thanks russss.
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[15:55] <russss> this one is also quite good if a bit unwieldy. http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-5C9DB31A0945F55B355631BB64DC9328/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/ENR/AIRAC/EG_ENR_6_5_1_1_en_2016-03-31.pdf
[15:56] <jakeio> Oooh, I'm under the big dark grey scary bit. Now to search for a key!
[15:58] <AndyEsser> Night all
[16:01] <jakeio> russss, are the grey blocks air corridors? Is it bad that I'm under one :D
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[16:05] <russss> no there are airways everywhere. I'm not entirely sure what those are.
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[16:10] <russss> I wouldn't worry too much about those, you're mostly concerned about class A airspace (i.e. most of London) and ATZs which are the area around airports
[16:12] <newbie_> hi all, I'm looking to buy a uBLOX MAX-M8Q GPS module and am a little confused about which options would suit my flight computer best
[16:15] <newbie_> what does the '5V/12C Serial Level Converted' option add that the '5V Serial Level Converted' doesn't have? I'm looking here https://store.uputronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=60_64&product_id=83
[16:15] <swaledale___> looks like daveake has got Pi434 back
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[16:24] <craag> FYI ft817 for sale on ukmicrowave group for £350
[16:26] <swaledale___> one on ebay has 50 secs left @ £380
[16:27] <tweetBot> @daveake: The sweet grin of success. PI434/868 recovered. #UKHAS #RaspberryPi https://t.co/P5U86syio6
[16:32] <LunarMobile> Yay
[16:40] <daveake> Was hiding in the grass
[16:40] <daveake> Surprisingly difficult to find it
[16:40] <sectionme> Congrats
[16:40] <mattbrejza> so you followed the gps until you stepped on it?
[16:41] <daveake> Anyway, home
[16:45] <LunarMobile> Well done Dave
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[16:58] <PE2BZ> newbie_ if you read I2C in stead of 12C does that make more sense ? I do not know the uBlox modules but it looks like one has I2C and serial and the other only has Serial
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[17:07] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BK-Ostvest2 after 037 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BK-Ostvest2
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[17:20] <Vaizki> craag: that's a steal for a ft817
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[17:39] <SA6BSS-Mike> AyuDag: sp9uob is on 144.251 MHZ USB contestia 32/1000 + APRS
[17:39] <SA6BSS-Mike> but its solar only
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[17:45] <jakeio> My incredibly professional homemade Yagi: imgur.com/CUTWMIt
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[17:52] <AndyEsser> jakeio: if it works :)
[17:52] <AndyEsser> doesn't need to be professional
[17:53] <jakeio> It does, tested over a distance of about 2-3km. So I'm pretty happy.
[17:53] <AndyEsser> :)
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[17:59] <AndyEsser> I can't believe I live in a world where being impatient about next day delivery is a thing
[18:03] <PE2BZ> jakeio Nice yagi. May I ask a question about dimensions ?
[18:04] <edmoore> AndyEsser: that's what I keep telling my employers
[18:04] <edmoore> (if it works it doesn't need to be professional)
[18:05] <AndyEsser> edmoore: there is perhaps a line to be drawn between a homemade Yagi, and engines that might need to certified for safety of life :P
[18:06] <edmoore> maybe
[18:06] <edmoore> but not relevent to me as i'm not making engines that need to be certified to safety of life
[18:07] <AndyEsser> sure
[18:07] <edmoore> anyway man-rating is a bit of a white elephant in astronautics
[18:07] <AndyEsser> man-rating?
[18:07] <AndyEsser> ah nvm
[18:07] <edmoore> if someone says something needs to be 'man-rated' and you say 'ok so what does that mean' and they sort of shrug a bit and chang ehte subject
[18:08] <AndyEsser> might explain why the wiki page is all of about 3 paragraphs :P
[18:08] <edmoore> i don't think i've ever read it
[18:08] <edmoore> but yes
[18:08] <edmoore> no one knows what a man-rated rocket looks like anymore
[18:09] <AndyEsser> apparently NASA's "man rating" for commercial crew program is a probability of failure on ascent being less than 1 in 500
[18:09] <AndyEsser> and likewise for descent
[18:09] <AndyEsser> that doesn't seem... particularly low probability
[18:09] <edmoore> you say 'well let me rate it like you rated the space shuttle' and everyone dives under the table because that cost all the money in the entire world to do and even then they had to smelt down so reserve unicorns to raise some more money
[18:09] <edmoore> and no one can afford that sort of bollocks today
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> Just man-rate it soviet style.
[18:10] <edmoore> so really you do some handwaving about 'analysis' and 'by similarity' that you can declare something to be 99.9% reliable and hope you've retired by the time it blows up and kills everyone on board
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[18:10] <SpeedEvil> Keep the fact there are men on it secret, so if they die you can just say it was unmanned
[18:10] <AndyEsser> edmoore: interesting
[18:10] <edmoore> welcome to the world of rocketry
[18:11] <jakeio> PE2BZ, you may. Sorry, I was AFK.
[18:11] <jakeio> I actually worked from a design on the UKHAS website.
[18:11] <AndyEsser> so I could theoretically create a rocket, that has space for a human, and life support for it - and pick some number of flights where the human didn't die, and if it's sufficiently high I could basically get away with it
[18:11] <AndyEsser> ie (we've flown 1000 flights with no failure - ta da - we've done it
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> I have noted before that if you take the official 'man rated' safety standards from NASA, and apply them to astronauts flying 12 times a year, you end up with it not being safer than cops, or deep-sea fishermen, but safer than librarians.
[18:12] <AndyEsser> rather than some actual piece of paper and guidelines per se
[18:12] <edmoore> the space shuttle flew 135 times
[18:12] <edmoore> filed twice
[18:12] <jakeio> PE2BZ, here is the schematic/design for it: http://widerimage.co.uk/docs/Mountain_Yagi_434_4Element.pdf
[18:12] <AndyEsser> catastrophic failure
[18:12] <edmoore> so that's ballpark 1 in 50 or ten times worse than the commercial standard they've pulled out of their bottom
[18:12] <AndyEsser> *shudder*
[18:12] <AndyEsser> for how much money...
[18:12] <edmoore> 30 billion i think
[18:13] <edmoore> so a nasa webpage says the entire space shuttle program cost was $209,000,000,000
[18:13] <AndyEsser> that's all the R&D, on-going operations and each launch?
[18:13] <AndyEsser> that seems... low?
[18:13] <edmoore> it's honestly all a fiction
[18:13] <edmoore> 209 billion?
[18:13] <edmoore> quite a lot!
[18:13] <AndyEsser> lots of hand wavey bollocks then
[18:14] <edmoore> no the man rating is a fiction
[18:14] <PE2BZ> jakeio on the image it looks like the element at the top of the image is larger then the element at the bottom. That could be the position of the camera but for the best yagi the reflector (at the bottom, behind the dipole) should be the largest and the director (on top) should be smallest.
[18:14] <edmoore> people who claim it's a science
[18:14] <Laurenceb_> Fukushima style statistics
[18:14] <AndyEsser> edmoore: $209 billion for the design, construction, support and launch of all 135 missions - yes I think that's low
[18:14] <edmoore> and that they can make declarations like 1/500 on a part they've done 3 test flights with
[18:14] <jakeio> It is, it's camera angle.
[18:14] <SpeedEvil> It is a science. The problem is nobody is willing to put up the correct error bars.
[18:14] <Laurenceb_> 4 generators in a row... ok failure probability ^4
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> So you end up with 1:200002 flights, not 1:20-1:200000000 flights as reliability numbers
[18:15] <edmoore> it's Bad science then
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[18:15] <Laurenceb_> actually they did that for the boosters
[18:15] <Laurenceb_> 3 o-rings, failure ^3
[18:16] <edmoore> i don't suppose astronauts believe the numbers though either
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> Quite.
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> I suspect very few astronauts go into it because they want a career as safe as a librarian.
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> And aiming at safety numbers higher than the construction workforce building the rocket is just offensive IMO.
[18:19] <Laurenceb_> what happens if you kill the 1% and keep culling until it doesn't exist anymore?
[18:20] <Laurenceb_> A: You're left with just the people who don't understand percentages.
[18:21] <AndyEsser> hmm - standing in my garden having a smoke - it occurs to me that I actually have a perfect location in my garden that I could sink a tall aluminium pole into for mounting antennae onto...
[18:22] <AndyEsser> http://imgur.com/AMJ81Gh
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[18:25] <Laurenceb_> F9R is short hand for "Falcon 9 Rorshach". Looking at the patterns seen on one allows the observer to "prove" to others their previous assumptions on re-usability of the F9
[18:27] <Laurenceb_> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40257.msg1534687#msg1534687
[18:27] <PE2BZ> jakeio great !
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[18:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03can_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=can_chase
[18:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[18:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SKIPI_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SKIPI_chase
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[19:01] <mfa298> AndyEsser: depending on how well secured that wooden structure is that looks like a perfect place to tie a mast onto.
[19:02] <AndyEsser> mfa298: that's may short term plan
[19:02] <AndyEsser> if I decide to keep going and get more - then potentially excavating the circular brick structure in the path, and sinking a 21ft scaffold pole into it
[19:02] <SIbot> In real units: 21 ft = 6.40 m
[19:02] <AndyEsser> thanks SIbot
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[19:04] <fsphil> so precise
[19:04] <AndyEsser> fsphil: me or SIbot?
[19:04] <mfa298> I've done the tie a mast to some suitable fence post a few times, seems to have done ok for those events
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[19:05] <AndyEsser> mfa298: I'm just lazy... I'll end up leaving it and then it'll get damaged when someone farts nearby
[19:06] <AndyEsser> will pick it up heavy duty cable ties tomorrow :)
[19:06] <AndyEsser> annoyingly the SMA->N adaptors don't arrive until Wednesday?
[19:06] <AndyEsser> err -?
[19:06] <mfa298> I've usually had somethign sturday to tie onto and it's only been for events upto a few days
[19:08] <AndyEsser> guessing I can't just sellotape the SMA on the RTL and the coax together in the meantime? :P
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[19:09] <fsphil> wasn't it F not SMA?
[19:09] <AndyEsser> fsphil: err... no
[19:09] <AndyEsser> that was me erm...
[19:09] <AndyEsser> being dense
[19:10] <AndyEsser> it was an... SMA F Connector
[19:10] <AndyEsser> :)
[19:10] <fsphil> what is that? :)
[19:10] <AndyEsser> SMA female connector
[19:10] <fsphil> aah
[19:10] <AndyEsser> SEE!
[19:10] <AndyEsser> wasn't just me that got confused!
[19:10] <fsphil> didn't know any of the rtl's came with sma
[19:11] <AndyEsser> what do they normally come with?
[19:11] <fsphil> F or belling lee
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[19:11] <fsphil> I think a few have MCX or one of the other small plugs
[19:11] <AndyEsser> you're now starting to make me panic again...
[19:12] <fsphil> go take a pic if you have it there
[19:12] <AndyEsser> "SMA female antenna port - Most dongles use the less common MCX or PAL antenna ports. SMA is more common, so more adapters and antennas are available for it. It is also more durable and has lower insertion losses."
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[19:12] <mfa298> I think all the rtlsdrs I've had are the annoyingly small mcx
[19:12] <fsphil> ah they list it as a feature
[19:13] <fsphil> SMA is not that durable though
[19:13] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> belling lee and sma are same size on the pads so they are interchangeable at the soldering level
[19:15] <AndyEsser> http://imgur.com/Aj7kxWf
[19:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> SMA
[19:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Male
[19:16] <AndyEsser> Geoff-G8DHE-M: top or bottom?
[19:16] <AndyEsser> top is the antenna so would expect male
[19:16] <AndyEsser> bottom is the SDR and I'd expect female
[19:16] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> oh yes Male on the cable female on the dongle
[19:16] <fsphil> nice. first one with SMA I've seen
[19:17] <fsphil> panic over :)
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[19:17] <AndyEsser> fsphil: don't make me panic...
[19:22] <AndyEsser> Am I weird that I enjoy just scrolling up and down the frequencies and looking at the waterfall in SDR# and finding funky signals?
[19:22] <fsphil> I scan through HF now and then
[19:24] <mfa298> you might want a different meaning of funky for some of the signals (or people) on 80m
[19:24] <AndyEsser> sitting around 104 MHz atm
[19:24] <AndyEsser> that's just the top of FM radio and into Aircraft land isn't it?
[19:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> FM ends at 108MHz
[19:25] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[19:25] <AndyEsser> boring
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[20:43] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/xX1Ik3C - sort of on topic, but really not.
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> How to inflate a latex 'balloon'
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[21:00] <amell> upu: are you doing zero sized boards at all?
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[21:05] <amell> looks like i will do my foundation exam at the ukhas conference this year :)
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[21:08] <mfa298> amell: he posted a link for a zero sized board over the weekend, and daveake flew one today
[21:09] <amell> mfa298: yeah, i saw the link to daves flight on the rpi blog. wanted to see what board looks like
[21:10] <daveake> Well it looks like a zero form-factor board :)
[21:10] <daveake> switcher, GPS and MTX2 on the top
[21:10] <daveake> LoRa underneat
[21:11] <daveake> h
[21:11] <amell> oh. mtx2? was looking for lora and gps only.
[21:11] <amell> is it a stripboard or proper board?
[21:12] <daveake> proper board
[21:12] <mfa298> from Thursday
[21:12] <mfa298> 19:25 < Upu> http://i.imgur.com/9O3XECp.jpg
[21:12] <daveake> there'll be options to populae mtx2 and/or lora
[21:12] <amell> AH! thanks mfa298
[21:13] <daveake> This started ages ago when we heard the zero was getting csi
[21:13] <amell> yeah, selling out fast, like hot cakes
[21:14] <amell> any idea how much for lora and gps board only?
[21:14] <daveake> Try Upu tomorrow
[21:15] <amell> just debating about putting cam in rocket with this.
[21:15] <amell> small enough !
[21:15] <daveake> lora is quite a bit less than the mtx2, so safe to say the total will be less than the previous board
[21:15] <amell> btw, why do you have a battery pack direct to the board, instead of taking power from the gpio? too much power?
[21:17] <daveake> We have a switcher with a wider i/p range than the pi will take
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[21:23] <mfa298> downside of camera on the zero is you need a new cable which costs as much as the zero
[21:24] <amell> yeah, 4 quid!
[21:24] <amell> and its just 3.5mm smaller at one end...
[21:25] <mattbrejza> in that case youshould be able to take a pair of scissors to a normal cable ;)
[21:25] <amell> i will if you pay for it.. :)
[21:26] <amell> looking forward already to ukhas conference.
[21:26] <amell> so, so convenient :)
[21:27] <mattbrejza> emf first
[21:36] <Upu> no idea amell
[21:36] <Upu> its a prototype atm
[21:37] <amell> oh right. well if you want to test it under high G loads& .:)
[21:37] <Upu> not really what it was designed for :)
[21:38] <amell> Is everyone coming to Cambridge for the conference?
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[21:46] <fsphil> hope so
[21:47] <mfa298> it sounds like there were no (or very few) who don't like the idea of cambridge
[21:48] <amell> How could anyone not like cambridge? Ive been to astronomy lecture theatre several times. its great for a conference
[21:48] <amell> mind it is big, so hopefully people will sit at the front :)
[21:48] <mfa298> I suspect the people it's worst for are those of us on the south coast as we have to pass London, but then a cheaper venue makes up for needing to book accomodation
[21:49] <amell> wouldnt you get accomodation anyway?
[21:50] <amell> i cant remember, is it a 10-4pm kind of schedule?
[21:50] <mfa298> Havn't done the couple of times I've been to London. it was only a couple of hours drive for Grenwich (I didn't go last year)
[21:50] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Indeed, but not complaining
[21:51] <amell> do you think there would be many staying?
[21:51] <amell> said to steve id help as im only 10 mins away from it
[21:53] <mfa298> If I go up I'd probably look to stay overnight, the extra hour or so for cambridge would probably make it a very early start
[21:55] <mfa298> hmmm, google thinks it's only about 20 minutes more to drive than grenwich
[21:55] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Indeed that would be my plan, stay overnight Friday maybe even Saturday if anything was going on in the evening ?
[21:56] <fsphil> there is often a pub visit afterwards
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[21:56] <mfa298> sounded like there was half a plan for balloon launching as well if it's cambridge
[21:57] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I thought it would be a pub crawl directed from South Africa ... ;-)
[21:57] <fsphil> haha
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[22:00] <amell> venue is right next to churchill college
[22:00] <amell> and elsworth is just down the road
[22:00] <edmoore> the castle
[22:01] <edmoore> nearest good pub and scene of many of the early days of hab planning
[22:01] <edmoore> and post-chase meals
[22:01] <amell> i did check if there were any rooms at the moller, but its full. some conference too.
[22:01] <edmoore> also a big outside and big upstairs which could probably fit a good crowd
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[22:01] <mfa298> sounds like it would be rude not to go there then edmoore
[22:01] <edmoore> yep
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[22:02] <amell> edmoore: youre talking about the one corner of victoria road/huntingdon road?
[22:02] <AndyEsser> I'll likely stay in Cambridge rather than drive back
[22:02] <AndyEsser> got to get on that social stuff :)
[22:02] <edmoore> amell: yes
[22:03] <edmoore> by castle mound
[22:03] <amell> isnt there a curry place opposite there?
[22:03] <edmoore> ... a good tracking spot
[22:03] <edmoore> yes
[22:03] <edmoore> a few along there
[22:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> If anyone coming along the South Coast wants a passenger then I'd be willing to share!
[22:04] <AndyEsser> likewise anyone coming from NorthWest is welcome to ride along with me
[22:05] <amell> plan to do my foundation, finally.
[22:06] <amell> not sure if theres a plan to do f+i combined
[22:07] <mfa298> amell: at a guess that might depend on interest and time.
[22:07] <AndyEsser> amell: based on discussion earlier - believe it's based on interest, and available assessors and time
[22:07] <edmoore> seems like a few people have the appetite for it
[22:08] <amell> but there would be no time for conference??
[22:08] <amell> or are we talking about the next day
[22:09] <edmoore> there's time for the exams, don't know about practicals for the int
[22:09] <mfa298> the couple of times I helped, the practicals for the foundation took a fair bit of time.
[22:10] <amell> what is the practical?
[22:10] <edmoore> make something, tune something, talk to someone
[22:10] <mfa298> foundation includes making some contacts and morse appreciation (assuming it's not changed)
[22:10] <edmoore> that's my vaguest recollection
[22:10] <R34lB0rg> http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160516-how-balloons-may-take-us-into-space?ocid=ww.social.link.linkedin
[22:11] <amell> morse sucks.
[22:11] <mfa298> intermediate has wiring a mains plug I think and other bits.
[22:11] <amell> so is it still m6 and 2e0? i think i prefer m6
[22:11] Action: mfa298 never had to appreciate morse
[22:11] <gonzo__m> wiring a mains plug properly is more involved that you think
[22:11] <mfa298> m6 is foundation, 2e0 is the intermediate
[22:11] <amell> 2e0 doesnt have the same ring.
[22:11] <amell> maybe ill just do the foundation
[22:12] <amell> 2e0 sounds daft
[22:12] <gonzo__m> would that be a ring main then?
[22:12] <edmoore> you can't make your own stuff with the foundation
[22:12] <mfa298> well you can always move onto the full quickly and gain an m0
[22:12] <amell> 10W?
[22:12] <LazyLeopard> Intermediate has a number of practical bits and requires a completed and signed-off project.
[22:12] <amell> isnt foundation limited to 10W? thats fine by me.
[22:13] <mfa298> 10W with a good setup can do a fair bit of stuff.
[22:13] <amell> edmoore: have you ever been to the CUWS shack? where is it?
[22:13] <gonzo__m> I would expect that for anyone able to build their own hab tracker, the foundation/intermediar=te licence exams are just a formality
[22:13] <mfa298> I think I managed Malta on 5W on HF once (forgot to turn the power back up after tuning the antenna)
[22:13] <LazyLeopard> Yeah. Foundation is enough to do quite a bit, but Intermediate is just a stepping-stone to full.
[22:14] <LazyLeopard> Very little point staying at Intermediate.
[22:14] <gonzo__m> I did a test with fsphil, on 14mhz psk
[22:15] <amell> I dont see my self spending the money to pump 400W out etc. 10W is fine, seriously.
[22:15] <LazyLeopard> Managed a 12000km contact with 5 watts of SSB once, but expect the guy at the other end was doing most of the work.
[22:15] <gonzo__m> I recall he wound his 817 down to min power and I was still hearing him down in dorset
[22:15] <mfa298> sample foundation papers http://rsgb.org/main/clubs-training/training-resources/foundation-mock-exams/
[22:15] <mfa298> amell: ^^
[22:15] <mfa298> AndyEsser: ^^
[22:15] <AndyEsser> mfa298: ta
[22:15] <LazyLeopard> Main advantage of the full licence is being able to operate outside the UK.
[22:15] <AndyEsser> since the <insert expletive here> students next door seem to want to be loud... I might as well study these
[22:16] <fsphil> gonzo__m: I remember that. yeah it worked fine at a bit less than 500mW
[22:16] <amell> lazyleopard: if im outside the uk, id rather do other stuff than mess with radios :)
[22:17] <gonzo__m> it was night time, so 14MHz was not the ideal band
[22:17] <gonzo__m> and my ant was only a cb 1/2 wave with an atu
[22:17] <gonzo__m> well, still is
[22:17] <mfa298> from memory the foundation is mostly looking up sutff (which you're probably given in the exam) and common sense.
[22:17] <fsphil> I have space in my attic now for a fairly decent HF antenna
[22:17] <gonzo__m> I think half a watt and I was just getting odd chr errors
[22:17] <amell> had a look at these exam papers. not difficult. is it open book?
[22:18] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SPUTKNIC after 037 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SPUTKNIC
[22:18] <LazyLeopard> There's a small sheet of relevant information provided, but nowt else.
[22:18] <gonzo__m> with the anount of electronics in houses, getting a dipole somewhere away from buildings is prob best
[22:19] <fsphil> yeah, it's a bit tricker routing cables around the garden though
[22:19] <gonzo__m> (in my case the noise is high, but that is all se;lf inflicted!)
[22:19] <LazyLeopard> Moving out of town would probably help, too...
[22:19] <AndyEsser> mfa298: just looking at it now - some obvious electronics stuff
[22:19] <AndyEsser> and knowledge of license by the looks of things
[22:19] <fsphil> the noise here isn't too bad, after I replaced all the CFL lights with LEDs
[22:19] <LazyLeopard> Noise floor round here is hideous, particularly on the lower HF bands.
[22:19] <edmoore> which LED brand?
[22:19] <gonzo__m> drag sime rg213 through some hose to make a diy armoured cable
[22:19] <amell> HF propagation is not affected by the
[22:20] <amell> A sun
[22:20] <amell> B time of day
[22:20] <edmoore> some are awfully noisy
[22:20] <amell> C day of the week
[22:20] <amell> D frequency used.
[22:20] <fsphil> philips LED
[22:20] <amell> C?
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[22:20] <gonzo__m> don't get cheapo .cn gu10 led lamps
[22:20] <LazyLeopard> Heh.
[22:20] <gonzo__m> they are nasty ar hf
[22:21] <gonzo__m> good branded ones are ok
[22:21] <fsphil> my thinkpad PSU is very noisy in HF
[22:21] <LazyLeopard> I killed the power at the main switch, and my noise floor changed not one jot. :(
[22:22] <fsphil> amell: yes
[22:22] <gonzo__m> also I have had probs with after market laptop psus
[22:23] <LazyLeopard> Well, careful measurement would probably have revealed a slight drop, but most of the noise round here comes from living in suburbia with hundreds of houses around...
[22:23] <AndyEsser> "You find an amateur friend lying on the floor,"... as oppose to a professional friend?
[22:23] <fsphil> I think you call those Wife/Husbands
[22:23] <amell> does it make a difference if its not-a-friend?
[22:23] <gonzo__m> hooker?
[22:24] <fsphil> lol
[22:24] <mfa298> although technically you could claim HF propogation is affected by all of them, sunspots and all that, but the day to day variance takes a long time.
[22:24] <AndyEsser> amell: if it's an amateur stranger - do you just walk away?
[22:24] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Rule One: Do not over-think the question! ;)
[22:24] <fsphil> walk away while whistling
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[22:24] <amell> well, depends if they are drunk or not.
[22:24] <gonzo__m> some people call me strange, and I'm not paid for it
[22:25] <LazyLeopard> Chances are there's a wrong answer just waiting for the over-thinker. ;)
[22:25] <AndyEsser> fsphil: having 'acquired' their equipment?
[22:25] <AndyEsser> is the foundation literally just the exam?
[22:25] <amell> apparently so
[22:26] <amell> not too difficult. just need to read my book before.
[22:26] <gonzo__m> an exam and a test using the radio
[22:26] <amell> what exactly is this intermediate practical?
[22:26] <LazyLeopard> xam and a bunch of practicals that need signing off.
[22:26] <amell> you actually have to use a radio?
[22:26] <AndyEsser> gonzo__m: ah ok
[22:26] <LazyLeopard> Oh yes. Two of them.
[22:26] <AndyEsser> the 'practical' stuff ie, building circuits, is the intermediate level
[22:26] <AndyEsser> A?
[22:26] <gonzo__m> yep, but it's on;y once in yoir liufe, so not too bad
[22:26] <AndyEsser> ?*
[22:27] <mfa298> if it's a radio amateur lying on the floor you might not want to 'acquire' his equipment as that's likely the cause of him being in that state
[22:27] <AndyEsser> what happens if no-one answers?
[22:27] <gonzo__m> it's vellaman kit level stuff
[22:27] <amell> #27.50!
[22:27] <AndyEsser> amell: think the Intermediate is like £33.50
[22:27] <gonzo__m> they have a stooge outside in the car
[22:27] <AndyEsser> I presume license are lifetime? or do you have to resit exams periodically?
[22:28] <gonzo__m> the exam pass is lifetime
[22:28] <amell> do you actually have to talk on the radio?
[22:28] <mfa298> lifetime, you just need to confirm your address every few years to keep it current
[22:28] <gonzo__m> the licence you have to just refresh online every 5yrs
[22:29] <gonzo__m> you on't even have to keep a log these days
[22:29] <LazyLeopard> You have to remember to go to the Ofcom website and tell them you're still alive and living at the same address at least every five years. It's quite surprising how difficult some folk find this...
[22:29] <mfa298> looks to be a bunch of useful foundation links on http://rsgb.org/main/clubs-training/training-resources/foundation-websites/
[22:29] <gonzo__m> tbh the ofcom site is shite to navigate and initially get the logon for it
[22:30] <gonzo__m> can you keep your m6/2e calls when you take the full licence?
[22:30] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, it's been "designed" by someone who had a day job doing something else...
[22:30] <mfa298> I think that hardest part of confirming the license address is finding your way around the site (as gonzo__m said) and remembering your login details
[22:31] <LazyLeopard> gonzo__m: At present, yes.
[22:31] <gonzo__m> you can keep the old class B licence now, even if you did the morse test and got a class A
[22:31] <LazyLeopard> ...though that may change.
[22:31] <amell> can anyone confirm if youre actually required to talk on the radio for F or I?
[22:32] <gonzo__m> yes, for foundation
[22:32] <LazyLeopard> You are required to conduct at least 2 contacts during the Foundation practicals, yes.
[22:32] <gonzo__m> you do a simple hf and vhf qso
[22:32] <amell> has to be voice? not data?
[22:32] <AndyEsser> amell: not a fan of conversations?
[22:32] <LazyLeopard> Yes, voice, not data.
[22:33] <gonzo__m> repeat after me 'you are 59, qrz contest....'
[22:33] <mfa298> amell, AndyEsser you might find the sylabus useful http://rsgb.org/main/clubs-training/tutor-resources-2/syllabus/
[22:33] <mfa298> looks to have the information you get in the exam at the end
[22:33] <gonzo__m> the foundation is so simple, there is no excuse not to pass.
[22:33] <mfa298> and I think has details of the practical assesments in there
[22:33] <LazyLeopard> ...though if you were unable to speak (or whatever) then the assessor might accept an alternative demonstration that you understood the protocol.
[22:34] <gonzo__m> my daughter did hers when she was 9
[22:34] <AndyEsser> gonzo__m: christ, no pressure then!!
[22:34] <amell> Andyesser: lol
[22:34] Action: AndyEsser fails exam and is ridiculed
[22:34] <AndyEsser> mfa298: ta
[22:34] <LazyLeopard> I understand the Foundation has been passed by at least one five-year-old.
[22:35] <gonzo__m> yep, spelling your name correctly on the paper is the hardest bit, it really is
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[22:35] <mfa298> amell: you mgiht be lucky and have dummy loads on the radios, and talk to someone just down the corridor,
[22:36] <amell> is anyone here an assessor?
[22:36] <mfa298> craag: is (or certainly used to be)
[22:37] <mfa298> and there may well be some others.
[22:37] <mfa298> I've helped out a few times.
[22:37] <LazyLeopard> These days you don't even have to spell your name on the paper, just add your signature...
[22:38] Action: LazyLeopard helps out at the local club.
[22:38] Action: LazyLeopard should really sort out the paperwork...
[22:39] <AndyEsser> Anyway - bed time for me
[22:40] <AndyEsser> night all
[22:40] <AndyEsser> new toys tomorrow :)
[22:41] <fsphil> niiiite
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[23:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WRIZ - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WRIZ
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[00:00] --- Tue May 17 2016