highaltitude.log.20160513

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[00:06] <Laurenceb_> richardeoin: the "systematic error" might actually be due to the geoid sign being reversed in my code
[00:06] <Laurenceb_> I'll try swapping it
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[00:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M2R - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M2R
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[00:58] <Laurenceb_> ignore what I said that makes it much worse lol
[00:59] <Laurenceb_> but I'm guessing the pressure wobbles are mostly due to the gps geoid
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[02:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CLT2634_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CLT2634_chase
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[07:57] <gonzo_> was 'SCOOBY' one of the 23-25 launches yesterday?
[07:58] <gonzo_> I count 17 yeoty on the map. Any word what happened to the others?
[07:58] <fsphil> it was unrelated
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[07:59] <fsphil> didn't get a signal from that one either. really need a higher up antenna
[07:59] <gonzo_> rgar one landed just outside my home town
[07:59] <gonzo_> that
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[08:23] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: From memory, all but five were recovered
[08:23] <SpeedEvil> a couple in trees, and three lost
[08:25] <gonzo_> that's a lot of gopro's lost
[08:32] <mfa298> I think 20 had some sort of rtty going, at least 2 didn't have good payload docs so didn't appear on the map (don't know if the other 5 got launched without working rtty or not launched at all)
[08:32] <mfa298> maybe we'll hear from them as to how it went
[08:33] <mfa298> (although I suspect there's as good a chance of pigs flying)
[08:46] <WillDWork> Upu - that new PITS board - for the zero I guess, is it going to be on uputronics or just a select run?
[08:46] <Upu> Uputronics
[08:46] <Upu> and yes I have to eat my hat
[08:47] <WillDWork> goo lad - cheers ;)
[08:47] <WillDWork> good
[08:48] <Upu> Dave is doing a test flight on Monday
[08:48] <Upu> if all good we'll production run it
[08:48] <WillDWork> thought that may have been the case. Cool, sign me up
[08:50] <pb0ahx> !flights
[08:50] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03YEOTY 10(9795), 03UBSEDS15 434.600 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(d812)
[08:51] <pb0ahx> !dial 9795
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 031YEOTY 10(9795): 03434.6483 MHz
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 033YEOTY 10(9795): none
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 034YEOTY 10(9795): none
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 032YEOTY 10(9795): none
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 036YEOTY 10(9795): 03434.18983 MHz, 434.18963 MHz
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 035YEOTY 10(9795): 03434.039 MHz
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 038YEOTY 10(9795): 031 MHz
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 037YEOTY 10(9795): none
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 0310YEOTY 10(9795): 03434.3103 MHz
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 039YEOTY 10(9795): 03434.039 MHz
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 0312YEOTY 10(9795): 031 MHz
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 0311YEOTY 10(9795): none
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 0314YEOTY 10(9795): none
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 0316YEOTY 10(9795): 03434.039 MHz, 14.07 MHz, 434.4905 MHz
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 0313YEOTY 10(9795): none
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 0318YEOTY 10(9795): none
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 0315YEOTY 10(9795): 03434.039 MHz
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 0320YEOTY 10(9795): 03434.039 MHz, 434.61045 MHz
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 0317YEOTY 10(9795): none
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 0324YEOTY 10(9795): 03434.7299 MHz, 434.7297 MHz, 434.7296 MHz, 434.039 MHz
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 0319YEOTY 10(9795): none
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 0321YEOTY 10(9795): none
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 0323YEOTY 10(9795): 03434.64872 MHz
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 0325YEOTY 10(9795): none
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 0322YEOTY 10(9795): none
[08:52] <daveake> I saw that coming :/
[08:52] <pb0ahx> :-0
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[09:04] <craag> do we have a recovery success rate?
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[09:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I think it was only 3 left out 2 were up trees, but not sure of the total number that flew
[09:11] <craag> ah :)
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[09:18] <R34lB0rg> friday 13th
[09:20] <fsphil> OH GOD NO WE'RE ALL GOING TO HAVE A perfectly normal friday
[09:20] <daveake> We've all lived through many Friday 13th's without incid .... <thud> ..... <lost carrier>
[09:23] <R34lB0rg> good day to loose a payload and blame higher powers
[09:25] <gonzo_> the universe has reported a segfault
[09:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BMB1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BMB1
[09:27] <R34lB0rg> a quantum vacuum fluctuation caused a transition in the higgs field
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[10:20] <MarkIreland> Anyone know any decent options for a point to point wifi ethernet bridge for a distance of 1 mile?
[10:21] <craag> the ubiquiti units are good
[10:21] <zyp> agreed
[10:21] <craag> a pair of the larger nanobeams should do that nicely at a couple of hundred Mb/s
[10:21] <zyp> I'd suggest the nanobridge m5
[10:22] <MarkIreland> https://www.ubnt.com/airmax/nanobeamm/
[10:22] <MarkIreland> Great thanks, I shall have a look
[10:22] <Darkside> +1 to the above
[10:22] <Darkside> thats how i get my net connection :-)
[10:23] <MarkIreland> Good speed Darkside?
[10:23] <zyp> wait, disregard what I said, I forgot about the newer ac-capable units
[10:23] <craag> A friend of mine just installed a pair of the NBE-5AC-19 over half a mile and is very happy with them
[10:23] <Darkside> well in my case the other end is about 5km away
[10:23] <Darkside> and theres a lot of trees
[10:23] <Darkside> so i cet maybe 30-40mbps each way
[10:23] <Darkside> get
[10:23] <Darkside> but yes, get the 802.11AC models
[10:23] <MarkIreland> Thats plenty for what I want
[10:23] <zyp> I revise my suggestion to a nanobeam ac
[10:23] <Darkside> i'm only using the regular 802.11n model
[10:24] <MarkIreland> https://www.ubnt.com/airmax/nanobeam-ac/
[10:24] <Darkside> yes, those ones
[10:24] <gonzo_> I have a link with a coupke of nanostations at the mo. Keeping me here till open wretch get their act together and get my adsl wired again
[10:25] <gonzo_> only a short path to a friends house, but my NS is pointing toitally the wrong way, so getting scatter/reflections only. And still a sollid link
[10:26] <gonzo_> the 5gig stuff I understand used ofdm, so it is fine for long paths with scattering/miltipath
[10:26] <Darkside> 802.11ac bumps that up to OFDM with 256-QAM subcarriers
[10:27] <gonzo_> the DSS stuff on 2.4gig is less forgiving of that
[10:27] <gonzo_> have just upgraded the FW in the NS and that looks like it will now do ac
[10:28] <Darkside> err
[10:28] <Darkside> if its a 802.11n model then no, it wont
[10:28] <Darkside> its a hardware change
[10:29] <craag> they're not doing sdr just yet ;)
[10:30] <gonzo_> They call it AirMax AC, Poss that is just cheeky to make you think it will do 802.11ac
[10:32] <craag> iirc you can set them to 802.11ac compatible mode, but it doesn't do the TDMA PtMP stuff as well as their AirMAX mode, and might be worse in other ways (I haven't compared it).
[10:34] <gonzo_> you've looked deeper into this than me
[10:35] <gonzo_> must admit, I start to lose interest when it gets down to baseband
[10:36] <craag> The uni radio club bought a powerbeam ac for putting on the planned radio club mast and doing long-range links, or spotlighting a given pub-garden bench with decent wifi
[10:36] <craag> so we got one that did real 11ac
[10:37] <craag> alas the mast got blocked by red tape, so now sits in a cupboard :/
[10:37] <gonzo_> bug cupboard!
[10:37] <gonzo_> big
[10:38] <gonzo_> (note to self. Don't do site survey on the ubnt box that you are using for your link in)
[10:38] <craag> heh
[10:38] <gonzo_> 5gig is getting high enough for dish beamwidth to be interesting
[10:40] <gonzo_> useable gain and the beamwidth reduces the amount of noise from other users. But getting it blown around by a few degs is a real issue
[10:41] <craag> yes the nanobridges we used for the basingstoke websdr would get blown out of whack in a storm (the whole mast rotated a few degrees)
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[10:42] <craag> the nanobeams do look like they're a little more aerodynamic, so might be less effected
[10:43] <cm13g09> craag: You're actually back to the real world!
[10:43] <MarkIreland> I am assuming these are POE - do they come with POE injectors or is that a separate purchase?
[10:44] <MarkIreland> Ah just read an amazon review - seems like they do
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[10:48] <craag> MarkIreland: They come with injectors
[10:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PI868 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI868
[10:49] <MarkIreland> Ah good thanks
[10:49] <craag> They're often ubiquiti PoE, which is passive 12-48V PoE, not 802.11 spec PoE
[10:51] <gonzo_> mine were just power up the unused cat5 pairs
[10:51] <gonzo_> I would use a twin outlet rj45 socket. Bridge the data pairs and bring out the power pairs to a psu
[10:52] <mfa298> I think the ubiquiti stuff with gig ports is proper PoE (as gigabit needs all four pairs)
[10:53] <mfa298> although I've mostly used their cameras rather than wifi kit
[10:53] <gonzo_> not sure if they have fixed it yet, but the earlier kit had a tap off the eth transformer in the radio end, which was used as a pulldown/up on the reset line
[10:54] <gonzo_> and it was quite a high Z cct. So a bit of leakage in the data pairs to power/earth and it would start doing hard resets
[10:58] <fsphil> the ubiquiti's work fine down to ~10v
[10:58] <fsphil> which is handy for running of a lead acid battery
[10:59] <fsphil> the nanostations at least
[10:59] <Darkside> yeah we run one at a repeater site off the local 12v supply
[11:00] <craag> mfa298: They do passive gigabit poe
[11:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP5MG_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5MG_chase
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[11:12] <Ian_> I noticed that barc3 picked up a fix of 9YEOTY last night to put it on the map. It was at North Sutton, Diddlebury, (not too far from Pye Brook).
[11:13] <Ian_> It is nestled in a hollow at the foot of the hills and would have been sheltered from most of the receivers on the day
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[11:14] <Ian_> That was late, so there was some effort made to round up the wayward sheep, but of course the follow up communications follows the standard plan . . . nada
[11:14] <Ian_> It was in a farmyard, so should have been a bottle of wine job.
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[11:21] Nick change: andycamb1 -> andycamb
[11:36] <daveake> A chase team uploading to the map? That's novel.
[11:38] <Ian_> If the map is accurate then it's maybe on the barn roof . . . on the map was the easiest search option I imagine.
[11:45] <mfa298> I think two or three of yesterdays teams had a decent number of uploads, but out of 20-25 that's not a good sign
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[12:24] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03INFINITY after 0316 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=INFINITY
[12:37] BostonMA (810a2812@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.10.40.18) joined #highaltitude.
[12:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KA8HUZ-10 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KA8HUZ-10
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[12:53] <tridor> hello, is it essential that the stationary listener details are entered into dl-fldigi?
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[12:54] <daveake> If you want to appear on the map, or to see distance/direction.elevation to the balloon
[12:57] <tridor> so if my listener station coordinates are wrong I can't use that to upload reliable location to habitat? We were planning on tracking/uploading whilst mobile, no base tracker :-/
[12:58] <fsphil> it has no effect on the uploaded data
[12:58] <fsphil> just where your station gets plotted on the map
[12:58] <fsphil> dl-fldigi can get the station coordinates from gps
[12:58] <gonzo_> most people just put their home location
[12:59] <tridor> ok, so I'm good to chase and track with my mobile dl-fldigi rig, I know it's not the recommended model.
[13:01] <fsphil> dunno, I'd recommend it :)
[13:01] <gonzo_> many just use fl-digi for the decode and upload, and run the chase car app on the phone to get that on the map
[13:02] <gonzo_> the android app has a simple telem decoder in, not sure how good it is. I have used it, with the phone just held close to the radio
[13:03] <tridor> ok, thanks everyone. I'll look into the chase car app.
[13:03] <daveake> I reckon it's very good ... I've had it decoding 300 baud with 817 in the dash in tablet in holder about 30cm away
[13:04] <daveake> s/in tablet/with tablet/
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[13:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N0AX-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N0AX-11
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[13:24] <SM0ULC-Reb>
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[14:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KA8HUZ-15 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KA8HUZ-15
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[14:22] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BlueDot after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BlueDot
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[14:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K5ARB-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K5ARB-11
[14:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG5CA-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5CA-11
[14:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG5JFN-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5JFN-11
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[14:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9ZMJ-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9ZMJ-11
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[15:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 030720265001_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=0720265001_chase
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[16:55] <PE2BZ> 70 cm direction UK conditions are going up. P25 from a RAF base in the UK on 404.525 is coming in S9 now (and S9 +30 45 minutes ago. I am transmitting LoRa SSDV with 100 mW at 432.625 MHz in mode 1. Curious if anyone can receive that. I am in JO21CX
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[17:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 0312YEOTY_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=12YEOTY_chase
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[19:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KL6NKA - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KL6NKA
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[19:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL4MDW - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL4MDW
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[20:46] <Laurenceb_> uh oh http://northeasterntribune.co.za/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2015/11/20151008_143707_res_81080.jpg
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> winner of fruitcake and moonbat award
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[21:47] <alexpimania> hi
[21:48] <alexpimania> is anyone here?
[21:49] <fsphil> kinda
[21:50] <alexpimania> hi
[21:51] <alexpimania> does anyone here know what the laws in Australia are in regards to launching HABS? Or just any useful information sources.
[21:51] <alexpimania> Thanks :)
[21:52] <fsphil> Darkside may know if he's about. I know it changed recently / is about to change.
[21:54] <alexpimania> Yeah, well I realy want to know as I would like to launch one do you know of the details of the change because there are loads of websites that supposedly have links to acts but all of the tem lead to a 404 on a gov website
[21:58] <fsphil> the change was to clear up some confusion in the weight class of balloons
[21:58] <fsphil> the light weight class didn't allow >2m size, but up to 4kg weight. which doesn't make much sense
[21:59] <alexpimania> Exactly!!! I thought the same thing. Do you know where the change is documented?
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[22:00] <fsphil> don't know the details sorry, just overhearing bits here and there
[22:04] <alexpimania> oh ok
[22:04] <alexpimania> is there anyone else on this IRC that could help?
[22:06] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> wait for Darkside to drop by, he?s in Australia to
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[23:02] <alexpimania> hi
[23:03] <alexpimania> is anyone online here? Does anyone know anything about the laws in Australia in regards to launching habs because I can not find them anywhere!
[23:04] <Darkside> ok
[23:04] <Darkside> hhey
[23:04] <Darkside> so its documented in CASR (Civil Aviation Safety Regulations) Part 101.E
[23:04] <Darkside> However.
[23:04] <Darkside> it used to be easier
[23:04] <Darkside> but it apparently just got a lot harder
[23:04] <alexpimania> I can not find that anywhere!!
[23:05] <alexpimania> Do you know any details or any useful sources? Thanks :)
[23:05] <Darkside> https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2013C00316/Html/Volume_3#_Toc358722821
[23:06] <alexpimania> Thank you so much, I will go look at that! :)
[23:06] <Darkside> its more than that though..
[23:06] <alexpimania> It says "superseded"
[23:06] <Darkside> ahh
[23:06] <Darkside> yes
[23:06] <Darkside> i wonder if they finally updated it
[23:07] <alexpimania> is this it: https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2016C00418
[23:07] <Darkside> https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2016C00418/Html/Volume_3#_Toc450032860
[23:08] <Darkside> ahh they still havent added in the new updates
[23:08] <Darkside> we fall into the 'light' balloon category, but unforutnately that category is defined poorly within the legislation
[23:08] <Darkside> and is in fact technically incorrect
[23:09] <alexpimania> is that because of the max diameter vs weights stuff
[23:09] <Darkside> CASA realise this, and have started using the international definition of 'light' balloon
[23:09] <Darkside> yes
[23:09] <Darkside> the international definition does not have the diameter restriction
[23:09] <alexpimania> Realy!!
[23:09] <Darkside> yes
[23:09] <Darkside> anyway
[23:09] <Darkside> the way casa do their approvals has recently changed
[23:10] <alexpimania> What has changed?
[23:10] <Darkside> and i'm not 100% across what they are doing, as we haven't got a launch planned for a few more months
[23:10] <Darkside> they used to handle the approvals in-house, now it has been outsourced
[23:11] <Darkside> and apparently the group handling it (a private company i believe) are a lot stricter
[23:11] <alexpimania> That is not good :(
[23:11] <Darkside> it used to be you talk to casa, they give you approval to launch from a particular location, and then they issue you a NOTAM for when you want to launch
[23:12] <Darkside> now aparently you need a completed risk assessment detailing compliance with a lot more of the aviation regs than just Part 101.e
[23:12] <alexpimania> Right, do you know what happens now?
[23:12] <alexpimania> So what should I do, what is in force, is the link that you just sent me the one to look at or is there another source?
[23:12] <Darkside> anyway, no matter what, you need to talk to caSA
[23:12] <Darkside> ask that you are seeking approval to launch a light balloon, under the ICAO definition of light balloon
[23:12] <Darkside> and see where that takes you
[23:13] <Darkside> i cant really help much more than that
[23:13] <alexpimania> that you very much for your assistance, dark side you have realy helped :)
[23:13] <Darkside> where are you planning on launching?
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[23:13] <Darkside> I'm with Project Horus btw
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[23:15] <alexpimania> I haven't got much of a plan yet as I haven't known what the laws are about it, would you recomend any launch places? (NSW)
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[23:16] <alexpimania> are you still there dark side?
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[23:20] <Darkside> yes
[23:20] <Darkside> sorry, had to do a few things
[23:20] <Darkside> dont know much about launch sites in NSW
[23:20] <Darkside> apart from going way inland
[23:20] <alexpimania> Thats fine :) Just wondering where do I find the "ICAO definition of light balloon"?
[23:21] <alexpimania> By the way I am in NSW, is all of what we discussed still relevant to NSW?
[23:22] <Darkside> yes
[23:22] <Darkside> you'll ave to google around to find the ICAO information
[23:22] <Darkside> https://www.casa.gov.au/standard-page/project-us-1418-post-implementation-review-certain-aspects-part-101-casr
[23:23] <Darkside> this shows that CASA knew of the issue
[23:23] <Darkside> "Additionally, Subpart 101.E-Unmanned free balloons uses a definition of light balloons that is different to the ICAO definition. This anomaly imposes unnecessary regulatory burdens on persons releasing meteorological and scientific balloons that fall outside the ICAO standards for balloons that require regulation by an aviation authority.
[23:23] <Darkside> and while it may not be enshrined in legislation just yet, they have been going by that definition
[23:26] <alexpimania> ok, so if I call CASA up will they be alright with the ICO definition even though I am in Australia which uses a different system (currently)
[23:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03gayle_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=gayle_chase
[23:30] <Darkside> well
[23:30] <Darkside> they are aware of the issue
[23:30] <Darkside> you need to have the chat with the
[23:30] <Darkside> them*
[23:31] <Darkside> and be aware that when you go for the actual approval bit (involving paperwork), they will charge you for their time
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[23:43] <alexpimania> how much do they charge? Is it more than the cost of the balloon?
[23:43] <Darkside> hah
[23:43] <Darkside> it can be
[23:44] <Darkside> sadly this is not a heap hobby
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[00:00] --- Sat May 14 2016