highaltitude.log.20160511

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[00:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC0D-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC0D-11
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[01:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Car_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Car_chase
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[07:18] <R34lB0rg> just to let you know: swiss FOCA is very supportive toward research
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[07:24] <pb0ahx> !flights
[07:24] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03UBSEDS15 434.600 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(d812)
[07:24] <pb0ahx> GM all
[07:32] <number10> morning
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[09:38] <Alsager> hi = how can we register a flight?
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[09:40] <daveake> Have you crated a payload document ?
[09:40] <mfa298> Alsager: if it's a ukhas style flight you create a payload document to match your payload (test it works), then a flight document using that payload doc and paste the flight doc id into #habhub
[09:41] <Alsager> how do we test it works? Never done this before and working with students at school
[09:41] <daveake> Is this part of the Sent Into Space project, launching tomorrow ?
[09:42] <Ian_> YEOTY?
[09:42] <daveake> No that one actually did test
[09:42] <daveake> 1 of 23
[09:43] <daveake> oh sorry now I see what you mean
[09:44] <mfa298> Alsager: you'll need to recieve the payload transmissions (with a suitable radio, rtlsdr, or other sdr dongle), decode them (with dl-fldigi), and upload to the habhub servers
[09:45] <Ian_> optimism got the better of you Dave
[09:45] <daveake> ha
[09:45] <Ian_> overrated
[09:45] <daveake> Alsager What have you been given for tracking this flight ?
[09:47] <mfa298> I think there's been a couple of yeoty<nn> so i'm guessing that might be two teams that managed to successfully test
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[09:47] <Ian_> Only ever seen 2 and 4, with 4 being more frequent
[09:48] <daveake> Yeah I've not noticed how many payloads have popped up, but it's obviously << 23
[09:48] <daveake> and only 1 flight doc
[09:48] <Ian_> For 4?
[09:49] <daveake> No, 1 flight doc for 1 payload (YEOTY4)
[09:49] <daveake> I emailed Alex @ SiS yesterday asking when the other 22 might happen, and he said that all the teams were visiting them yesterday and today for setup of trackers and receivers, and creation of payload and flight docs
[09:49] <craag> So this evening we're making the default page of tracker.habhub flight-doc only aren't we?
[09:50] <mfa298> looks like 5 have payload docs (2, 4, 17, 18, 2015) + YEOTY which I'm guessing is what theyre starting with
[09:51] <Ian_> I asked Alex last night if he would be posting a callsign/freq list for the yeoty flights on the ukhas mailing list and the expected time window, but have heard nothing and noticed also that I have a couple of posts to the mailing list that seem to be stuck in moderation
[09:54] <Ian_> Maybe we could have a CRAB talk at conference this year?
[09:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> they are planning on getting 20 payloads up and working in one day of testing???
[09:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> and flying the next ?
[09:55] <Ian_> It's all in the organisation
[09:55] <craag> 23 Geoff-G8DHE-M ;)
[09:55] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I think I'll have lay in tomorrow in that case won't make much difference ;-)
[09:56] <Vaizki> now someone needs to work up the hams to hold a contest on 70cm at the same time
[09:57] <daveake> Geoff-G8DHE-M: 20? No.
[09:57] <daveake> 23
[09:57] <daveake> too slow :/
[09:57] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> OK 20+
[09:57] <Ian_> Vaizki it's like turning up at a job interview in trainers shorts and a sweaty vest
[09:58] <Alsager> sorry back now = there are meant to be 23 launches tomorrow from RAF Cosford - I have created a payload and flight docs but struggling to get HABHUB to decode signal clearly
[09:59] <daveake> habhub doesn't decode
[09:59] <daveake> dl-fldigi decodes
[09:59] <Vaizki> haha tomorrow :D
[09:59] <Vaizki> I spilled my gingerbeer
[09:59] <Vaizki> dammit
[10:00] <daveake> Part of me wants to help; the other part, which is winning, wants to stand back and let it all go very, very pear-shaped
[10:00] <Ian_> BARC should be here and on the telephone
[10:00] <daveake> Alsager The reality is that this testing should have been done weeks ago
[10:00] <craag> Alsager: Give us as much info as you can on what's happening - including screenshots if possible.
[10:01] <daveake> and that it's SentIntoSpace's responsibility to make sure this works and provide all the help you need
[10:01] <craag> Is SentIntoSpace not helping you out?
[10:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> At leats the prediction looks good for Thursday http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=f756d39d05a2c9e80e409802bc9c6faf80560dd6
[10:02] <AndyEsser> what time is the launch supposed to be?
[10:02] <daveake> Geoff-G8DHE-M: Yeah, now look at the ground winds, and consider the chances of them all getting the fill right, and where those flights are going if they're underfilled
[10:04] <daveake> Alsager: If you want a chance of this working, sit down, don't move, and answer our questions, please. First off, what kit have you got set up now? I'm expecting it to be an SDR, with some SDR software, and dl-fldigi decoding.
[10:07] <Ian_> Just spoke to Nathhan (SiS) - Alex is in meeting and hopefully will call me back shortly. Recommend he make a presence here and whip up some teams
[10:09] <Alsager> I have a pi in the sky board, laptop with a DVB usb receiver, running HDSDR 2.7 and FLDIGI 3.21.50. the set up between the 2 pieces of software seems fine but I'm not getting clear data on FLdigi
[10:10] <daveake> OK so what settings have you set in dl-fldigi ?
[10:10] <mfa298> Alsager: screenshots of hdsdr and dl-fldigi would help a lot.
[10:10] <daveake> yes ^
[10:11] <Alsager> Where shall I post screenshots?
[10:11] <daveake> imgur
[10:11] <mfa298> and I hope that's dl-fldigi not fldigi (there's a subtle but important difference)
[10:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> The version is right
[10:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> I guess you have aerials on both transmitter and receiver and they are in close proximity ?
[10:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> In which case overload is a common problem
[10:13] <craag> Alsager: http://imgur.com
[10:15] <Alsager> definitely dl-fldigi in HAB mode - trying to get school technicians to unfilter imgur now
[10:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Any site where you post a picture full size will do ...
[10:16] <craag> ah, perhaps search around for something unfiltered
[10:16] <daveake> If you're stuck email to me and I'll upload it
[10:16] <Alsager> currently aerials are installed on both and about 10m apart - I know the pi board is transmitting GPS and photos as I've had it connected to my monitor and seen the output
[10:16] <daveake> ok good
[10:24] <Alsager> just trying to sort images now. The trouble seems to be with fl-digi - I got it working and receiving data a few weeks ago but only get parital data now. I have registered a number of payloads and flight plans with Habhub
[10:24] <Ian_> What is your YEOTY callsign?
[10:25] <Alsager> When I go into the DL client settings and find the payload (YEOTY12) and try and autoconfigure nothing happens
[10:25] <Ian_> Thanks
[10:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> There isn't a YEOTY12 but there are a load of ALSAGER TEST payloads there
[10:28] <Alsager> that's them
[10:29] <craag> A screenshot of fldigi trying to decode it would be the most useful thing right now
[10:29] <Vaizki> just put energy towards the screenshots...
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[10:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> There is none with callsign YEOTY12 however
[10:30] <craag> email it to phil@philcrump.co.uk if you're stuck and I'll post it up
[10:31] <Vaizki> or do a periscope for us.. anything ;)
[10:33] <Alsager> just managed to get an album on imgur - http://imgur.com/search?q=yeoty
[10:33] <daveake> and imgur dies ...
[10:33] <Vaizki> hehe
[10:34] <craag> http://imgur.com/gallery/tAMVu
[10:34] <Alsager> thanks for the help guys - never used imgur before so I've learnt something already today :)
[10:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> we need to see the dlfldig and HDSR windows
[10:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> without the pop upover them
[10:35] <craag> scroll down Geoff-G8DHE
[10:35] <daveake> OK, first thing, those 2 red cursors in dl-fldigi aren't lined up with the signal
[10:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> Also turn the Squelch off
[10:36] <daveake> Alsager: Open up http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/data/uploads/pits-manual.pdf and see page 19
[10:37] <gonzo_> interesting bthat the telem strings are not coming out clean but the SD card massages are?? Poss different format (parity/bits) between the two outputs daveake?
[10:37] <Vaizki> I would widen the filter in HDSDR also a bit and maybe get rid of AGC and squelch
[10:37] <daveake> no they're the same
[10:37] <Ian_> You might be getting ssdv too - just a thought - it would be muddying the water slightly
[10:38] <daveake> yes indeed
[10:38] <daveake> should still get the green box tho, and isn't, 'cos it's mis0tuned
[10:39] <Alsager> new image uploaded to gallery
[10:39] <Alsager> green box has come and gone once
[10:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> With so many signals on the band it looks like you are suffering overloading
[10:40] <daveake> yeah remove the tx aerial
[10:43] <Alsager> which one is the tx aerial?
[10:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> x = Transmitter Rx= Receiver
[10:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Tx
[10:45] <Alsager> on the pi board? sorry for being really thick
[10:46] <daveake> Yes, the UHF aerial (so not the GPS) on the PITS board
[10:47] <daveake> Were you given the manual to read, or at least a link, by SentIntoSpace? There are pictures in there showing what is what.
[10:53] <Alsager> some info = i think they produced their own guide based on your work - could email it to you?
[10:54] <daveake> er, no thanks, :)
[10:54] <gonzo_> daveake, if overload is the prob,would they be better taking the rx ant off?
[10:55] <gonzo_> with all the other strong sigs on site
[10:55] <Alsager> seems to be picking up signal better now - not everytime but getting some green boxes - imgur doesn't seem to want to add them to my album though!
[10:55] <fsphil> depends where the overload is coming from
[10:55] <daveake> So, with tx aerial removed, click in the middle of the signal as per the page I linked to
[10:55] <fsphil> have you turned of the SQL option on the bottom right of the dl-fldigi window?
[10:56] <fsphil> it should be grey
[10:58] <Alsager> yes turned off SQL - clicked on middle as per image
[10:58] <fsphil> do the red lines stay aligned with the yellow lines on the waterfall?
[10:58] <fsphil> they seem to be off to the left a bit
[10:59] <Alsager> it moves and tracks the line
[10:59] <Alsager> I've given up on album in imgur - can you see the images here? http://alsagerschool.imgur.com/all/
[10:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> There not public
[10:59] <fsphil> "AlsagerSchool's images are not publicly available."
[11:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KC0D-11 after 039 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC0D-11
[11:05] <Alsager> got to go to assembly now - my year 11 form are leaving soon so can' dodge it - will be back in about half an hour.
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[11:25] <Alsager> back now
[11:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> We can't see the pictures from the school they are not public.
[11:28] <fsphil> wb
[11:30] <Alsager> it seems to be getting a signal now - think school wifi is screwing up imgur and settings on there
[11:31] <Alsager> how do I test the payload now -have got the payload list from habhub and find the alsager payloads in the list - my instructions were to select it and click autoconfigure - that does nothing
[11:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Which one are you selecting ?
[11:32] <fsphil> autoconfigure will not appear to do anything if the config is already what the document specifies
[11:33] <Alsager> called Alsager test (YEOTY12) Primary - thought I should see callsign etc on the fl-digi window?7
[11:33] <daveake> If it's decoding, then yes you should
[11:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> No not until it receives the signal
[11:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> then the telemetry will appear
[11:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> and if no errors it will go green and send it up to habitat
[11:34] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> watch the status line at the bottom when its gone green
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[11:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Without screen grabs its going to be difficult, forget the Album on IMGUR just upload individual images.
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[11:37] <mfa298> If the school internet is blocking stuff it might mean the upload to habitat doesn't work, but you should see good uploads in dl-fldigi
[11:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> It should report an error on the status line if it can't see habhub
[11:38] <daveake> Alsager: There's something that you need to take up with SentInToSpace ... if all these 23 payloads are going to have payload IDs YEOTYnn, then the images page is going to get confused. Payload IDs on the image page are limited to 6 characters, so payloads YEOTY11, YEOTY12,YEOTY13 etc are all going to appear as YEOTY1. Worse, if 2 or more of those payloads
[11:38] <daveake> send the same image number at the same time, the images are going to get merged together.
[11:39] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Urghhhh
[11:39] <Alsager> shared new album on imgur YEOTY2
[11:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Right well that appears to be starting to to decode but only a 2character checksum ????
[11:41] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> maybe an error at the end of line has any message gone green yet ?
[11:41] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> It does say uploaded OK so should also be appearing in the log.
[11:42] <daveake> Error - it's deffo 4 - $$YEOTY12,528,11:41:31,53.09862,-231815,0091,0,0,1r,21.9,4.1,175*AFBB\n
[11:42] <daveake> Should be getting near 100% pass, not 100% fail
[11:43] <mfa298> [2016-05-11 11:43:00,376] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Exception in UKHAS main parse: ValueError: Incorrect number of fields (got 11, expect 10)
[11:43] <mfa298> from logtail http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[11:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yup payload doc is wrong in someway
[11:44] <mfa298> but also a fair number showing bad checksum in the logtail
[11:44] <daveake> missing battery current at the end
[11:45] <daveake> Alsager please edit your payload doc, add an extra float field, and call it "current"
[11:51] <Alsager> done just waiting for payloads to refresh to see it
[11:54] <daveake> you're not uploading at all right now
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[11:59] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> still not decoding correctly it seems
[11:59] <Alsager> set up another payload called ALS_TEST with new setting added - any better?
[11:59] <gonzo_> the checksum should not be dependent on the flight doc thopugh? I assumed it was only calced on the $* deliniters?
[12:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> does it say on the status line if uploads are happening and are they green ?
[12:00] <daveake> gonzo_: Checksum is set to xor or crc in the payload doc
[12:01] <daveake> It seems though that every sentence is getting corrupted somewhere
[12:09] <Alsager> got to teach for the afternoon now so will only be on occassionally until 3 ish
[12:11] <Darkside>
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[12:17] <mfa298> heh: "Please do try to test your boards now and make sure you know how to use them. Its not worth waiting until close to the day and realise that theres a problem!" posted in 19th Jan in http://sentintospace.com/forum/topic/important-radio-tracker-notice/
[12:17] <daveake> And from the "how to lose your flight" page:
[12:17] <daveake> Leave everything you can till the last moment. For example, don't bother doing any tracking a day or 2 before your launch day. This gives you a great excuse for not doing any of the testing (see above).
[12:18] <AndyEsser> :)
[12:19] <craag> I don't get how topics in that forum are ordered...
[12:20] <AndyEsser> I had said I would go down tomorrow to help track - sadly something has come up - although depending on their NOTAM - might be able to still drive down in the afternoon before they've managed to launch
[12:20] <AndyEsser> :)
[12:20] <daveake> High probability of some new entries on that page after tomorrow. I already had to expand the bit about batteries after last weekend: "Use cheap batteries rather than Lithium Energizers. This includes Duracells Alkaline or anything else that is not a Lithium primary cell. 2 recent flights used this option, on the same day, with 1 successfully lost and the
[12:20] <daveake> other only found because it had a backup radio tracker using Energizer Lithiums."
[12:21] <Alsager> trouble is that was all the instruction we really got
[12:21] <daveake> Well there's the manual I linked to earlier
[12:21] <mfa298> AndyEsser: based on current evidence staying well away might be a good thing.
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[12:21] <daveake> Also this http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1732 Alsager
[12:21] <AndyEsser> mfa298: :)
[12:22] <daveake> Alsager: On the plus side, at least you're one of the (very few) people actually doing some testing for tomorrow
[12:23] <mfa298> I found their documentation, looks like it's out dated and is missing stuff (not many screenshots of dl-fldigi)
[12:23] <Alsager> yep and doesn't mention the current line when creating the payload!
[12:25] <mfa298> read through the one daveake linked earlier, that should be accurate and if not you can complain to someone that will probably fix it quickly.
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[12:48] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Am I missing something but no NOTAMS for Cosford for the coming week ?
[12:49] <daveake> Moved to Bridgnorth I believe
[12:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Oh right
[12:49] <daveake> Same applies though, but UIn understsnd that's in progress
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[12:50] <AndyEsser> glad I wasn't the only person to notice that
[12:52] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> So the only flight document is wrong anyway ...
[12:52] <daveake> yup
[12:52] <daveake> And just a few payload docs
[12:52] <AndyEsser> Things are going well
[12:52] <daveake> and almost no testing
[12:53] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Mind you might solve a host of problems if they don't get the NOTAM, might then have time to test!!
[12:53] <daveake> They all have GSM "backup" trackers, which I suspect are going to be quickly promoted to primary.
[12:53] <daveake> yes true!
[12:53] <mfa298> Being the only team so far that seems organised I think they could be forgiven for the wrong loction.
[12:53] <AndyEsser> Geoff-G8DHE-M: think that's what will actually happen if delayed?
[12:54] <daveake> I think the location changed recently so they wouldn't have known
[12:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> No ! But a better chance when the realise its not as simple as buld fly!
[12:54] <mfa298> reading the forum it looks like they might also have spot so there might be some hope.
[12:55] <daveake> yeah I don't fancy gsm to work in them thar valleys
[12:57] <Alsager> yes we have spot trackers plus black boxes? as well as a pair of go pros!
[12:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> That's going to be expensive if lost ....
[12:59] <daveake> A lot of those 23 flights are going to rely heavily on the spots
[12:59] Nick change: Crashbone|Away -> Crashbone
[13:02] <Alsager> I assume if we need the spots to track we will still be able to use Pinthesky for images andn telemetry if we recover the payload?
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[13:04] <Ian_> Yes, but GSM won't work above a couple of km altitude and may not reconnect on the way down as it descends into the valleys of hilly country and SPOT has a maybe 50% chance of working.
[13:05] <daveake> Images are stored on the SD card; telemetry is too if that's enabled in pisky.txt. However, provided you get the receiving side working, PITS gives you the best chance of locating your payload.
[13:05] <mfa298> the telemetry from the pits will likely be better than the spot, pits will give you regular updates with altitude. Spot I think stops at 18km (or maybe 12km) and I don't think has altitude
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[13:06] <Ian_> If it falls face down then you may be out of luck. DF skills for a signal from the PITS transmitter may be the final option if the data isn't parsing well.
[13:07] <Ian_> Do ensure that you use NEW condition Energiser Ultimate batteries to increase your chances.
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[13:08] <Alsager> will be going to KMF tonight after school - the sent into space people should be there to fix things!
[13:09] <Ian_> That sounds optimistic. Grab Alex early and hold on. There will be a queue I would guess
[13:10] <Alsager> IS it realistic that we will be able to get everything fixed and a flight plan registered by tomorrow?
[13:10] <craag> For just you - sure
[13:11] <craag> But they'll likely have 22 other people in a worse state than you (they've not found us!)
[13:11] <Ian_> As long as you aren't at the back of the queue. If you are making data changes, then Y12EOTY might be a better callsign bet for the ssdv
[13:11] <Ian_> Then when it gets truncated it will still be unique
[13:12] <Ian_> ssdv uses only first six characters of the callsign
[13:13] <Ian_> Best advice, print a copy of the manual that daveake posted earlier and take it with you.
[13:13] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Is it one NOTAM being applied for all flights or are they all seperate requests ????
[13:13] <Ian_> IT is the definitive document on PITS, not a paraphrased handout
[13:14] <Ian_> I guess that SiS is using one NOTAM for a group launch
[13:14] <mfa298> possibly better print out several copies to give to others who are struggling and gain some Kudos points
[13:15] <Ian_> It doesn't make sense otherwise. I believe that the QTH change was to keep balloons away from other traffic
[13:15] <Ian_> mfa298 +1
[13:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Just wondering was all ...
[13:15] <daveake> yeah it'll be 1 notam
[13:15] <Ian_> and reasonably so
[13:16] <daveake> I can see CH's but not theirs yet
[13:17] <mfa298> Alsager: what antennas do you have for the chase vehicle to go with the rtlsdr dongle (is it just the little one that comes with it like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171953594009 or do you have something larger)
[13:21] <Alsager> it's about 2 foot I suppose with a big magnet on the bottom
[13:23] <mfa298> that sounds hopeful.
[13:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Alsager, Have you sorted mobile internet access ? Either a hotspot from a phone or a MiFi is normal
[13:25] <mfa298> and car chargers
[13:27] <Alsager> Again I asked about that and got no reply - relying on phone data by the looks of it - would a 3G /4G dongle work?
[13:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD9DBI-11 after 035 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD9DBI-11
[13:27] <craag> Alsager: Yes, many of us use the dongles, mifis are even better.
[13:27] <mfa298> it can work, but might be flaky at times depending on where you are
[13:27] <craag> As you can then hook up phones+tablets too
[13:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> You might want to ensure you download maps in advance as well so that your not relying totaly on connectivity at all times.
[13:29] <craag> Carrier diversity (ie not having everyone on a single carrier) is very useful
[13:29] <mfa298> a good gps app on your phone that you can put the coords into and get bearing and distance can help as well.
[13:30] <mfa298> hamgps (i think) is popular on android
[13:30] <gonzo_> if you are chasing, once you get out to the west, you may find that mobile data gets patchy
[13:31] <craag> ^^ wales was virtually bare of data coverage during my last recovery there
[13:31] <craag> we drove halfway up a hillside to get data :P
[13:31] <gonzo_> so you may want to take some phone numbers of people still online, to find out the lat/lon of the last received packets, as it comes in to land
[13:32] <gonzo_> I was in the predicted landing area a few weeks ago and it is indeed patchy coverage
[13:33] <AndyEsser> Wales has it's benefits... mobile data coverage isn't one of them
[13:34] <gonzo_> if you have a paper OS map, that would be good. A little difficult to read the lat/lon, but better than nothing
[13:34] <gonzo_> it will get you in roughly the right area, then you can see if you can hear it directly, to get it's actual landing position
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[14:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AGGIE-2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AGGIE-2
[14:10] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SKIPI after 0320 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SKIPI
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[14:40] <daveake> I agree with the comments about mobile coverage in Wales; we came across this sign on holiday in North Wales last year, and can confirm that it was a lie :p http://imgur.com/UQ1gwnv
[14:41] <AndyEsser> ha
[14:42] <AndyEsser> was walking along the river last year some point
[14:42] <AndyEsser> just as I passed over the border, couple girls walked passed in the direction of wales
[14:42] <AndyEsser> "You can tell we're back in Wales - we have full 4G reception"
[14:42] <AndyEsser> err...
[14:46] <gonzo_> well, it will change when the emergency services move to 4G. Well, chnage a bit
[14:46] <Vaizki> they are moving from TETRA to LTE?
[14:46] <gonzo_> thats the plan
[14:47] <Vaizki> it'll take only 20 years? :)
[14:47] <gonzo_> though some authorities are keeping the tetra option open for a few more years
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[14:57] <arjunnaha> My dad's company was Airwaves, it was expensive for the government but it was reliable
[14:57] <arjunnaha> 4G network won't be as secure as TETRA as well
[15:01] <russss> they're aiming to finish the migration by 2020 (it's not going to happen)
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[15:04] <arjunnaha> Fire service have already committed a separate contract to continue the use of TETRA
[15:05] <CopyCoin> anyone knows if a 6,2 diesel v8 is reliable? Car I'am looking to buy is a GMC Vandura van from 1988.
[15:05] <fsphil> random
[15:09] <Vaizki> I do TETRA and LTE data service / messaging for a living :)
[15:09] <Vaizki> those magical boxes for the network side
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[16:00] <BARC> afternoon all
[16:00] <BARC> apologies for the relative radio silence, as you can imagine we're pretty up to our necks getting things ready
[16:01] <AndyEsser> How's it looking?
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[16:02] <Ian_> Are you NOTAMed yet?
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[16:05] <Ian_> good afternoon Alex
[16:05] <AndyEsser> still no sign of it on the map :(
[16:07] <Ian_> I don't know how often they release them given that the latest I see is timed at 1105Z
[16:08] <BARC> Not NOTAMed quite yet but David Miller is on it
[16:08] <BARC> He confirmed that the launch site is fine and will be releasing the documentation once he has it sorted
[16:08] <AndyEsser> Ah good good
[16:08] <BARC> The launch site has had to move slightly hence the delay getting NOTAMed
[16:08] <BARC> now launching from Severn Park in Bridgnorth
[16:09] <Ian_> What's the practical launch window?
[16:09] <BARC> so if you still want to join us AndyEsser that should be fine (it is public land after all)
[16:09] <BARC> launches will be in batches of 5 at roughly 30min intervals
[16:10] <Ian_> From what time?
[16:10] <BARC> first batch should be in the air at 10:30
[16:10] <Ian_> Rgr
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[16:10] <Ian_> As was discussed earlier, the ssdv truncates callsigns at six characters.
[16:11] <BARC> Noted and just discussed with daveake
[16:11] <Ian_> That's good.
[16:11] <BARC> I'll be reversing callsigns in the morning
[16:11] <BARC> YEOTY14 becomes 14YEOTY etc.
[16:11] <Ian_> Reversing . . . changing the onboard software?
[16:12] <BARC> Yes, changing callsings on the pisky.txt
[16:12] <Ian_> Remember that will stuff the testing and docs done already.
[16:12] <Ian_> Not that there are many
[16:12] <BARC> payload and flight docs are next on our radar and we'll set up with the new callsigns in mind
[16:12] <AndyEsser> BARC: unfortunately, I've got another engagement now at midday
[16:12] <AndyEsser> otherwise I'd be there nice and early
[16:12] <Ian_> Fine.
[16:13] <AndyEsser> but thank you
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[16:13] <BARC> No problem AndyEsser, next time
[16:13] <Ian_> You like living on the edge . . .
[16:13] <Ian_> I originally thought that the RAF were managing your gas
[16:14] <BARC> Airproducts are managing the gas etc
[16:14] <BARC> everyone who needs to be in the loop is
[16:14] <Ian_> Makes sense, that's a line on the risk assessment sorted :)
[16:16] <AndyEsser> Right - have to shoot off now - good luck with the launch tomorrow BARC
[16:16] <BARC> Thanks AndyEsser
[16:16] <Ian_> You also got the weather window OK. good to hear that you have spoken with daveake
[16:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BlueDot after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BlueDot
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[16:45] <BARC_> Afternoon all
[16:45] <BARC_> as I'm sure you know we're launching 25 balloons tomorrow
[16:46] <craag> 25 now huh?
[16:46] <BARC_> I've been made aware that the ssdv side of things will only consider the first 6 characters of payload id and I need to now create payload docs and flight docs for them
[16:47] <BARC_> Will it be ok to get the flight docs approved even though the payload docs will be new?
[16:47] <BARC_> I'm about to create everything now for approval
[16:47] <craag> Ideally of course they should all be tested before approval
[16:47] <craag> As otherwise you won't be able to fix them if they're broken
[16:47] <BARC_> The systems have all been tested locally
[16:48] <craag> the payload docs haven't
[16:48] <BARC_> internet here has been patchy so not all have sent data but all are decoding correctly in fldigi
[16:48] <daveake> The one tester earlier had a faulty payload document, so we don't know if the other 22/24 have working ones or not
[16:49] <BARC_> I think the problem with that one was they were using a version of ours where we'd added an external temp sensor
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[16:49] <mfa298> assuming they are all the same it would probably be good to get at least one on the map and checked, and then use that as the basis for everythign else
[16:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9PON-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9PON-11
[16:49] <daveake> yup
[16:49] <BARC_> we'll be setting them up, only one of the 25 has an external temp sensor and we've made a note of which one
[16:50] <BARC_> I can get one running now and set up a doc for that to test
[16:50] <craag> Make the payload doc for each, get it on the map, then make the flight doc, ask for approval, and repeat..
[16:50] <daveake> the fault was a missing battery current field
[16:50] <daveake> which is potentially (hah) an issue for all
[16:50] <mfa298> the more you can get tested and on the map the better, means theres a better chance of them not being broken tomorrow
[16:51] <daveake> yes, it's going to be hard work if the admins have to go round live patching the docs to get them working
[16:51] <BARC_> The teams all have their devices so I'll have to set up a spare one to test
[16:51] <BARC_> sorry for the headaches guys
[16:52] <daveake> Oh, the headaches will be tomorrow; we're panicing in advance :)
[16:53] <BARC_> I'm just getting one set up and running now and will make a test doc for it, won't be long
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[17:14] <fsphil> pre-panic
[17:15] Action: PE2BZ removes wires from pre-panic button and routes them to the no-panic button
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[17:17] Action: fsphil panics
[17:17] <Ian_> fsphil, can you confirm payload callsigns are allowed to start with a figure?
[17:17] <Ian_> Not sure why but Parse Log Tail having probs with 1YEOTY
[17:18] <fsphil> I haven't done it, but don't see why not
[17:18] <fsphil> "Invalid CRC16-CCITT checksum"
[17:20] <mattbrejza> im not really sure its up to us to worry or panic
[17:20] <mattbrejza> unless BARC has too much do to and wants to offload the panicing to us
[17:21] Action: PE2BZ is thinking if anyone worries when he panics or anyone panics if he worries....
[17:22] <Ian_> Why do anything today which you can put off until it's too late :)
[17:24] <Ian_> It's all relatively simple until the deadline approaches then all sorts of gremlins get in the ointment, or as this is HAB, is that oinkment :) ?
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[17:30] <mattbrejza> invalid checksum :/
[17:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9LHW-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9LHW-11
[17:32] <PE2BZ> is there a web sdr in the UK to which we can tune to help decoding multiple habs at once ?
[17:32] <mattbrejza> i think thats more a question of how many tabs can you have open at once
[17:33] <Ian_> One that can record the IQ? I don't think so.
[17:34] <PE2BZ> I can locally receive 3 HABĀ“s over here in Holland. 1 on the Icom and 2 on the SDR. Have 3 virtual audio cables.
[17:34] <SM0ULC-Reb> PE2BZ: run multiple webbrowser in different mechins
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[17:48] <PE2BZ> SM0ULC-Reb that is an option, if I can connect to a web sdr. But I will run SDR Console V3 with my SDR and see how far I get....
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[17:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VE7APF-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE7APF-11
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[18:47] <daveake> Nice vague notam "MET BALLOON RELEASES" :)
[18:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> :)
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[18:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03YEOTY18_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YEOTY18_chase
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[19:51] <Upu> !flights
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Current flights: 03YEOTY 10(9795), 03UBSEDS15 434.600 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(d812)
[19:51] <Upu> .payloads 9795
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 031YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$1YEOTY - 031YEOTY - 03434.04 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 033YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$3YEOTY - 033YEOTY - 03434.1 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 034YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$4YEOTY - 034YEOTY - 03434.13 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 032YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$2YEOTY - 032YEOTY - 03434.07 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 036YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$6YEOTY - 036YEOTY - 03434.19 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 035YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$5YEOTY - 035YEOTY - 03434.16 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 038YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$8YEOTY - 038YEOTY - 03434.25 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 037YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$7YEOTY - 037YEOTY - 03434.22 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 0310YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$10YEOTY - 0310YEOTY - 03434.31 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 039YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$9YEOTY - 039YEOTY - 03434.28 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 0312YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$12YEOTY - 0312YEOTY - 03434.37 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 0311YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$11YEOTY - 0311YEOTY - 03434.34 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:51] <Upu> muhahaha
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 0314YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$14YEOTY - 0314YEOTY - 03434.43 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 0316YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$16YEOTY - 0316YEOTY - 03434.49 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 0313YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$13YEOTY - 0313YEOTY - 03434.4 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:52] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 0318YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$18YEOTY - 0318YEOTY - 03434.55 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:52] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 0315YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$15YEOTY - 0315YEOTY - 03434.46 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:52] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 0320YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$20YEOTY - 0320YEOTY - 03434.61 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:52] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 0317YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$17YEOTY - 0317YEOTY - 03434.52 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:52] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 0324YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$24YEOTY - 0324YEOTY - 03434.73 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:52] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 0319YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$19YEOTY - 0319YEOTY - 03434.58 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:52] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 0321YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$21YEOTY - 0321YEOTY - 03434.64 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:52] <russss> heavens
[19:52] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 0323YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$23YEOTY - 0323YEOTY - 03434.7 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:52] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 0325YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$25YEOTY - 0325YEOTY - 03434.13 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:52] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Payload 0322YEOTY 10(9795) 03$$22YEOTY - 0322YEOTY - 03434.67 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[19:52] <lz1dev> u did what
[19:52] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/Z0vL2jS.jpg
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:52] <jcoxon> are these all individual balloons?
[19:52] <fsphil> lol
[19:52] <Upu> yes
[19:52] <Upu> :)
[19:52] <fsphil> yeppers
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> project multiplication?
[19:52] <jcoxon> whats the aim?
[19:53] <Upu> ISM band DDOS
[19:53] <fsphil> occupy 434mhz
[19:53] <fsphil> not actually sure what the aim of this is
[19:53] <mfa298> Young Engineer of the Year (or seeing how well SiS cope with pressure)
[19:54] <mfa298> although I'm not sure what side of engineering it is to be given something to fly, and track without having built it themselves
[19:54] <daveake> Early introduction to failing due to lack of testing
[19:55] <lz1dev> they just bough 20 pits?
[19:55] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> think that's gone thru all our minds!
[19:55] <russss> well hopefully at least one will work
[19:55] <mfa298> 25 of them
[19:55] <russss> is there a risk of frequency pileup, I can't do the maths
[19:55] <russss> my brain is fried
[19:55] <mfa298> and spots, go pros and gsm trackers based on what was said earlier
[19:56] <daveake> I think they're every 30kHz from 434.04 onwards
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> wow
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> That's an 'ambitious' project.
[19:56] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> What age group are they in ?
[19:56] <mfa298> also and introduction to the the IK Brunnel engineering principles, overdo it by many times
[19:57] <russss> mfa298: oh, I thought that was "you can do anything if you wear an amazing hat"
[19:57] <mfa298> maybe they'll do the hats as well
[19:58] <fsphil> a big pointy gandalf hat
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[20:02] Action: cm13g09 pings mfa298
[20:02] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
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[21:18] <Laurenceb_> https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> how many Falcon9 launches O_o
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[21:19] <amell> Did I read that email right? 25 simultaneous flights?
[21:19] <amell> Seriously?
[21:19] <mfa298> yes
[21:20] <mfa298> they did say they were doing this back in March
[21:20] <amell> Yow. The frequency plan looks OK as long as they are all in spot on tune.
[21:20] <russss> I hope someone does that I/Q recording
[21:21] <amell> Be good but I don't have the bandwidth lol
[21:21] <mfa298> amell: look at the logs for upu doing the payload list
[21:21] <amell> Need an air spy or something to capture all that
[21:21] <russss> I'd like to play around with multi-decoding
[21:22] <russss> if I didn't have to work I'd get up on my roof and do one with the hackrf
[21:22] <craag> It's only 800KHz
[21:22] <craag> rtlsdr would do it easy
[21:22] <russss> should have got my Rx system going by now
[21:22] <russss> but it's still sitting on my desk
[21:22] <amell> Wasn't Chris doing a flight at .250 as well
[21:22] <craag> later, launch at 4pm
[21:23] <mfa298> amell: rtlsdr should be able to record the whole bandwsith
[21:23] <amell> Yeah except I'm at work tomorrow
[21:23] <craag> shameless plug: http://websdr.suws.org.uk/
[21:23] <amell> Be good to capture it all and look at it later
[21:23] <amell> Will someone capture it and dump it on Dropbox or something?
[21:24] <amell> What's the betting on how many flights make it?
[21:25] <amell> I reckon they will lose 6-8 out of 25.
[21:25] <mfa298> they've got spot and sms as well so hopefully none lost
[21:26] <amell> Spot as well? Jeez. How much gas is that!
[21:26] <mfa298> but I think the likelyhood of rtty being tracked successfully is low
[21:26] <amell> Sounds like a lorry load of He
[21:28] <amell> Just reading back through the logs. Ssdv?!?
[21:28] <mfa298> tanker you mean.
[21:28] <amell> All 25 doing Ssdv?!?
[21:28] <daveake> sending yes
[21:28] <amell> Christ
[21:28] <mfa298> would make for an interesting fill tube to go from a He tanker.
[21:29] <amell> Has anyone heard what rubber they are using?
[21:29] <Vaizki> trojan?
[21:29] <amell> Hwoyee 1200s?
[21:29] <amell> Durex extra strong?
[21:29] <daveake> amell That's still less SSDV bandwidth than my 868 lora flight managed on its own
[21:30] <mfa298> presumably whatever balloons SiS normaly use
[21:31] <amell> I'm just thinking with this many in the air at once with cameras there's a reasonable chance of pictures with multiple balloons
[21:31] <amell> Be really cool getting a pic of lots up there just before burst
[21:31] <Vaizki> if you did capture the 1MHz I/Q data I guess you'd be looking at something close to 2MB/second of data
[21:32] <mfa298> we've had balloons taking pictures of other balloons before (although I'm not sure we've had any on ssdv yet)
[21:32] <Vaizki> so 7.2GB/hour
[21:32] <Vaizki> not too bad! :)
[21:32] <daveake> Not on SSDV no, not AFAIK anyway
[21:32] <amell> Yeah that's manageable - can torrent it
[21:33] <russss> well, aliasing, your sample rate needs to be at least 2x the bandwidth (ideally a bit more, especially RTL-SDRs are a bit weird like that)
[21:34] <mattbrejza> in theory 1MHz of IQ will have 1MHz of useful information
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> russss: sort-of.
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> In principle, you can get data out with less if you know the properties of the signal.
[21:34] <Laurenceb_> filters always have finite cut off, and you want to avoid aliasing
[21:34] <russss> yeah
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> Narrowband data bandwithdsignals particularly.
[21:34] <russss> I would always go significantly wider
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> (but wider is much better if you possibly can at all)
[21:35] <Laurenceb_> I count 16 spacex launches scheduled for this year
[21:35] <amell> Are all these balloons actually going to be tracked?
[21:35] <daveake> hahha
[21:35] <russss> amell: apparently each school is going to track their own balloon
[21:35] <amell> Laurenceb: does that include heavy?
[21:35] <mfa298> amell: in theory, but I'm not sure how mcuh experience the various teams have
[21:35] <russss> but this would be a good use/test for a multi-tracker
[21:35] <amell> russss: I'll believe it when I see it
[21:36] <amell> Bet lots of people come on here asking for support.
[21:36] <daveake> Given the amount of actual testing onto the map, we're all a bit sceptical
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> amell: yes
[21:36] <daveake> and I bet they don't
[21:36] <mfa298> we've had a couple, and they're the ones I'd be tempted to try and track
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> so spacex has 26% of global launch market O_o
[21:36] <amell> Alsager came in. Good for him.
[21:37] <daveake> Those that haven't been on by now probably won't try tomorrow either
[21:37] <mfa298> and we've had one or two of the other teams probably
[21:37] <amell> Well. Shows they are trying
[21:37] <daveake> Those are yes
[21:37] <daveake> The other 20-odd ...
[21:38] <mfa298> 3 out of 25 I think have tried
[21:38] <daveake> There'll probably be more updates to the "how to lose your flight" page than habhub
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: more than that
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: that is counting the ones that will no way in hell fly on other than a national launcher, and are not really in the market
[21:39] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[21:39] <amell> Laurenceb_: when is heavy again? September? Looking forward to that one
[21:39] <Laurenceb_> November
[21:39] <amell> They are apparently going to land all three first stages
[21:40] <amell> The outer ones on land and the centre one on drone ship
[21:40] <amell> I'll be soooo impressed if they get them all back!
[21:41] <mattbrejza> i want to see them land all three on teh same drone ship
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:41] <mattbrejza> 2 at once on land would be cool too
[21:41] <mattbrejza> persumably they'll land on sites next to each other
[21:41] <amell> Yes there's 2 pads
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> Five actually
[21:42] <amell> Uh? At canaveral?
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> I wonder which lands first - center or boosters
[21:42] <amell> Boosters from what I read
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> amell: htere is one main pad, and four pads around it
[21:43] <amell> The boosters come off first and return to shore
[21:43] <amell> The centre goes for a little further then comes down onto drone ship
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[21:44] <amell> But yeah if you mean which will actually touch down first, not sure
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> I do wonder about refuelling in orbit
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> S2 refuelled in orbit would be quite awesome.
[21:44] <amell> This new supercooled fuel seems a lot more difficult to handle
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> it wouldn't need supercooling
[21:45] <amell> As it's not S1? Ok
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> I mean - if you're in orbit already - it doesn't really matter
[21:46] <amell> Elon said he wouldn't take SpaceX public until they are on their way to Mars
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> Still a low probability :(
[21:46] <amell> I think we will see red dragon on the surface in the next 5 years
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> yes, that's not what he meant by 'on their way to Mars'.
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> From memory, the actual tweet was 'until MCT is flying regularly'
[21:47] <amell> Oh you mean the SpaceX colony ship? :)
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> yes
[21:47] <Vaizki> well there's putting stuff on mars and then there's having it still talk to you :)
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> The chances of red dragon is very high
[21:48] <amell> I can't see that happening in our lifetime
[21:48] <Vaizki> I can if there's a reason to do it
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[21:48] <amell> What's the benefit?
[21:49] <amell> Kick a few red rocks? Needs to be a heavy benefit to justify that expense. Probably getting to half a trillion bucks to do all that
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> space solar power makes a lot of sense
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> at $1M/Ton it might be viable
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> and reusable Falcon9 could approach that price
[21:52] <amell> How many tons were you thinking Mars colonial transport would need?
[21:52] <Vaizki> space solar power?
[21:52] <amell> I think he missed the conversation
[21:53] <Vaizki> golden eye? :)
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> solar panels in space, microwave link to send power to earth
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> yup
[21:54] <amell> MCT would need a massive ship put together in orbit that could go back and forth between Earth and Mars orbit
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[21:54] <Vaizki> how big panels are we talking? 1-2 km wide mirrors?
[21:54] <amell> With all the fuel needed to get down to Mars surface and back
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> Vaizki: just conventionalish panels
[21:55] <Vaizki> hmmh
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> prob modular with built in solid state microwave tx
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> then a pilot beam from the earth to phase it
[21:55] <amell> How does that help?
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> that way its intrinsically safe
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> and modular/simple
[21:56] <Vaizki> similar to microinverters where you have an inverter per panel and syncs to grid phase
[21:56] <amell> Are we talking about the same thing here...
[21:57] <Vaizki> I just joined so!
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: I note that earthly panels are under $.5/W
[21:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03m5gwh_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=m5gwh_chase
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> Unless you're getting quite high, doesn't help at night.
[22:00] <Laurenceb_> molnya orbit perhaps
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> Of course, if you have apogee of 40000km, and perigee of 400km, your peak power on the down-side gets 'quite large' if you want to make it into a death ray
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> Actually - for one in the US, that's basically only Argentina.
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[22:07] <Laurenceb_> but with pilot beam its hard to do anything other than kill yourself
[22:07] <mattbrejza> reassuring
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: And who says it can't be used without the pilot beam?
[22:12] <Laurenceb_> heh fair point
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> However.
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> There are a number of plausible battery technologies on the horizon
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> if someone works out how to do a decent flow battery, or ... - solar gets a lot more useful
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> UN space power inspectorate
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> I should compute the capacity of a panamax flow battery container
[22:14] Action: SpeedEvil wonders what the proper name for an upgraded panama is.
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> Ah. 'new panamax'
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[23:03] <Vaizki> fonsecamax
[23:03] <Vaizki> but hmm sleep&
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[00:00] --- Thu May 12 2016