highaltitude.log.20160428

[00:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MOA - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MOA
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[04:35] <malclocke> Hello folks. Has anyone ever had issues with ublox (neo 6m) giving lat + lon but no altitude?
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[07:36] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BARC after 0316 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BARC
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[08:21] <PE2BZ> Good morning.
[08:21] <fsphil> mooorn
[08:21] <PE2BZ> There are plans to launch a balloon today from Belgium at 10 h UTC with WSPR experiments at 40,30 and 20 meter band.
[08:23] <PE2BZ> I made a link to the text I received in my mailbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/k4xebuurxmo8ljw/wspr_hab.txt?dl=0
[08:30] <PE2BZ> There is a facebook page of the Asgard project: https://www.facebook.com/groups/153214554744003/
[08:32] <fsphil> "You must login to continue.". ah well
[08:32] <PE2BZ> It´s launched from Uccle in BE and could carry about 13 experiments http://www.esero.be/_WP/wp-content/uploads/20151210-ASGARD-VI-overzicht-experimenten.pdf
[08:33] <PE2BZ> Sorry. I use facebook so I could view the messages
[08:33] <SA6BSS-Mike> orded some pcb:s some days ago for my wspr balloon, hopefully launch later this summer
[08:34] <PE2BZ> Nice Mike ! Had my wspr reception set up yesterday and had my Pi transmitted wspr on 10 meter band with 10 mW. Just to be shure it worked ;-)
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[08:36] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> tried my homebreq wspr setup with the si5351a barebone on 30 & 40m and got allot of spots over europe
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[08:37] <PE2BZ> Hmmm... my 10 mW did not get spotted But I only repeated 20 times yesterday evening
[08:38] <PE2BZ> The Asgard should transmit on 70 cm band: Advanced avionics
[08:38] <PE2BZ> We measure gps data, pressure and temperature, and
[08:38] <PE2BZ> battery power. All data will be registered on-board
[08:38] <PE2BZ> and sent to the ground with radio communication
[08:38] <PE2BZ> (70cm range for radio-amateurs).
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[08:40] <SA6BSS-Mike> darn adsl!!! fiber comming later this year
[08:41] <daveake> We only have fibre to the cabinet. The cabinet however is right outside the exchange, and that's over 2km away.
[08:41] <AndyEsser> they put the cab outside the cab?
[08:41] <AndyEsser> erm..
[08:41] <AndyEsser> outside the exchange*
[08:41] <daveake> yes
[08:41] <AndyEsser> that seems a bit...
[08:42] <daveake> yes
[08:42] <AndyEsser> less than efficient
[08:42] <daveake> it's in a village
[08:42] <daveake> and we're not
[08:42] <AndyEsser> at my place in warwick the cab was 10 m from my door, and the exchange was 1/2 mile away - Up to 100 Mbit fibre meant... 98 Mbit :)
[08:42] <AndyEsser> daveake: ah yes, rural broadband
[08:42] <daveake> Chances of getting them to run fibre out here are ... low
[08:42] <AndyEsser> :(
[08:42] <AndyEsser> I really despise that the government went for FTTC and not FTTH
[08:43] <PE2BZ> We got Fiber to the Home 2 years ago. And even cheaper than by the cable. Including IPTV and the same provider.
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[08:43] <daveake> If I can get a decent deal on 4G for 100GB+ per month, I'll switch to that
[08:43] <daveake> We're on a hill and have LOS down to the towers in town
[08:43] <AndyEsser> nice
[08:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok, its a up/down flight with wspr and 70cm
[08:44] <daveake> 20-40MB/s depending on time of day, down or up
[08:45] <AndyEsser> I can't even tell you what I have at home - it's "fast enough"
[08:45] <AndyEsser> here in the office we have a 20/20 leased line
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[08:52] <PE2BZ> I have 200 up and 200 down. Sadly at my work SDR station (for record and playback) I only have 4 MB/s up
[08:53] Action: PE2BZ is going to make some coffee. Children are minecrafting and the weather is ice cold
[08:53] <SA6BSS-Mike> PE2BZ: u have any freq for 70 cm telemetry from Asgard?
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[08:57] <AndyEsser> PE2BZ: we had to pay ~£5000 for the leased line installation and ~£250/month for the pleaseure (in a 5 year contract)
[08:58] <AndyEsser> for I consider should be the standard internet to at least commercial, if not residential properties in this country
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[09:01] <PE2BZ> I have asked ON4CHE by email and the ¨St.Pieters school¨ by facebook but no reply yet.
[09:03] <PE2BZ> AndyEsser : Wow. that´s a lot of money. I have no idea what my workplace has or pays. it is for 4 locations over 200 km distance and about 3000 employees. My web sdr internet is an ¨illegal¨ home internet over coax connection as fallback for our job as building automation
[09:04] <AndyEsser> PE2BZ: what country are you in?
[09:04] <PE2BZ> I am from the Netherlands
[09:04] <AndyEsser> Ah yes
[09:04] <AndyEsser> the land of wonderfully intelligent people, beautiful scenary, and god damn glorious internet
[09:06] <PE2BZ> +1 to that ;- ) and a ugly king and beautiful queen ...
[09:07] <Vaizki> that seems to be the trend
[09:07] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: FTTC is just postponing investment... :( in Sweden FTTH is about 1500-2000 euro
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[09:08] <PE2BZ> We still have the coax for digital TV for multiple rooms, and one IPTV box with HDD for lent, and I share my internet with 2 gaming children
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[09:11] <PE2BZ> Vaizki add to that that ugly fathers make nice daughters and we are all OK ;-)
[09:11] <AndyEsser> SM0ULC-Reb: sadly the two technologies aren't compatible
[09:11] <AndyEsser> you can't extend FTTC to become FTTH
[09:11] <AndyEsser> which is why I thought it was a short sighted investment by the government
[09:13] <Vaizki> why not?
[09:14] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> so one should look for OO4SNW in wspr logs, that being the high alt launch
[09:14] <Vaizki> you can split out wavelength bands from one fiber into several
[09:15] Action: PE2BZ when reconnecting my Logper from the LoRa to the SDR I finally found the missing SMA female adapter. Under my knee :-(
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[09:19] <mfa298> I would hope where they've put in new fibre they've used blown fibre, or bundles with lots of cores as well so there's a migration path to FTTH.
[09:19] <Vaizki> AndyEsser, I noticed that there are now SFP modules available where you can select wavelengths.. and thus do CWDM with passive mux/splitter boxes to put a bunch of gigabit optical signals on one fiber
[09:20] <Vaizki> mfa298, well I got FTTC but the C is in my garage, serving 4 houses.. but they also pulled in 5 extra fibres.
[09:20] <Vaizki> I told the workers doing it that I appreciate the overkill
[09:22] <mfa298> the actual fibre cores are fairly cheap, its the hole you put it in that costs the money
[09:23] <Vaizki> sure, and laying down 6 instead of 1 makes a huge amount of sense
[09:23] <AndyEsser> It's not the fibre cables that are the issues - it's the other end of them from your modem
[09:24] <Vaizki> other end of them?
[09:24] <AndyEsser> the cabinets in FTTC have the fibre equivalent of the DSLAMs in them which then goes onto a backhaul connection on an IP network to the exchange and then onto the wider world
[09:25] <AndyEsser> In order to effectively have a fibre connection from Home back to the Exchange, that equipment needs to move from the cab to the exchange
[09:25] <Vaizki> my FTTC has fiber into a ZTE box that does 16 lines of VDSL2 afaik
[09:26] <Vaizki> AndyEsser, as I said, a hack solution is to multiplex multiple wavelengths (one per home) onto one uplink fiber via CWDM using passive devices or WDWM which is expensive
[09:26] <Vaizki> argh DWDM
[09:26] <AndyEsser> too many acronyms :)
[09:26] <AndyEsser> silly engineers
[09:26] <AndyEsser> Can't we have "Doo dahs" and "Thingies" :)
[09:26] <AndyEsser> much easier
[09:27] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: hacks don't stand up to time :P
[09:27] <Vaizki> bit#5 connects to bob#786
[09:27] <AndyEsser> heh
[09:27] <AndyEsser> can't use bit! that's already in use in computing!
[09:27] <AndyEsser> hah
[09:27] <Vaizki> the whole world is a hack
[09:27] <Vaizki> just replace it with a newer hack later
[09:27] <AndyEsser> and amazingly communications seems to work quite impressively I've always thought
[09:28] <AndyEsser> considering, as you say, the whole world is a hack
[09:28] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:28] <AndyEsser> always amazed me that I can take my phone and it just work in other countries - potentially using different technologies etc
[09:28] <AndyEsser> (is clearly impressed by simple things)
[09:28] <AndyEsser> Any whoozle... back to work for me :(
[09:29] <Vaizki> http://www.fs.com/c/cwdm-mux-demux_177
[09:29] <russss> FTTH in the UK uses GPON, which is bidirectional TDM over one fibre core
[09:29] <Vaizki> those CWDM thingies are not ridicilously expensive
[09:29] <AndyEsser> By way of an Update for any interested - I haven't been able to work on HAB stuff for about 3 months - I'm hoping I can start again May/June
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[09:32] <daey> are there cheap ics that allow clock generation from 0ish - XXXMhz?
[09:33] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> Vaizki: u see this great news for sdrplay http://www.sdrplay.com/SDRplay&Studio1.pdf
[09:33] Nick change: SA6BSS-Mike|2 -> SA6BSS-Mike
[09:35] <PE2BZ> 16.2 kHz to 133 MHz ? https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/9116
[09:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> Vaizki: and about the troule u had with airband, the solution seems to be a fm trap to overcome saturation
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[09:41] <Vaizki> SA6BSS-Mike, broadcast FM notch filter?
[09:41] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes, thats the name
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[09:42] <daey> PE2BZ: ty
[09:42] <PE2BZ> daey no problem
[09:42] <Vaizki> SA6BSS-Mike, yes I was considering making one like this http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IlvNt8psWWk/VjPHn4soMrI/AAAAAAAAC4I/nBHab2HHrHQ/s1600/FM%2Btrap-1.jpg
[09:43] <Vaizki> or just buying a ready made one.. ;)
[09:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> I?l go with the later :)
[09:45] <Vaizki> or just get an airband BPF
[09:46] <PE2BZ> I use this type with the SDR-Play http://www.ebay.com/itm/FM-Trap-Improves-TV-Picture-Quality-75-ohm-coax-connectors-RadioShack-1500024-/222074298790?hash=item33b4a8e1a6:g:QXMAAOSwJb9Wr6Y~
[09:49] <Vaizki> hmm rockwell ones are a tad expensive.. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AIRBAND-RECEIVE-FILTER-118-138MHz-WORKS-WONDERS-PERFECT-FOR-RTL-SDR-/291713660468?hash=item43eb7d3634:g:juMAAOSwp5JWY58b
[09:49] <Vaizki> but I would assume these are worth the price
[09:50] <Vaizki> the attenuation graph looks too good to be true :)
[09:50] <SA6BSS-Mike> and this http://www.ebay.com/itm/FM-Notch-88-108-MHZ-band-reject-filter-for-receivers-SDR-/201556745925?hash=item2eedb7dec5:g:gYQAAOSwFMZWs1Am
[09:53] <Vaizki> the rockwell one seems to have about -32dB attenuation at 107MHz where our highest FM stations are
[09:54] <SA6BSS-Mike> daey: u have http://qrp-labs.com/vfo.html and this http://qrp-labs.com/progrock.html
[09:59] <SA6BSS-Mike> daey: this is cool as well http://www.qrp-labs.com/synth/oe1cgs.html
[10:00] <Vaizki> SA6BSS-Mike, is there anything interesting in the airband 108-118MHz? I think it's just VORs and other beepers?
[10:01] <SA6BSS-Mike> I dont think so, I have mot found anything interesting anyway, but it will help u if u want to receive weather sats in 137 mhz band
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[10:07] <Vaizki> I hate these ebay sellers.. "oh hi I'm selling a notch filter! but I'm not going to tell you about insertion loss, q, -3dB point or show a bode plot! buy now!"
[10:09] <edmoore> that's most of the internet
[10:09] <edmoore> which is why we avoid it
[10:10] <edmoore> likewise people who do electronics buy ordering individual breakout boards from aliexpress
[10:10] <edmoore> that take 2 weeks to arrive
[10:11] <Vaizki> well does it matter if people get into mechanics through lego, mecano or a christmas present welding kit.. :)
[10:11] <Vaizki> ok maybe it does but as long as they move on, we can forgive them
[10:12] <mfa298> the arduino/rpi/maker communities have a lot to answer for
[10:12] <mfa298> the breakout board users tend to then write it up so that others can follow in their footsteps
[10:35] <Vaizki> SA6BSS-Mike, if that VFO had sine-wave output I'd be all over it..
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[10:58] <SA6BSS-Mike> w7qo just called in :)
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[11:00] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03W7QO-9 after 0313 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W7QO-9
[11:02] <Vaizki> maybe someone can add a hysplit on WB8ELK-13 or is it too late now?
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[11:05] <SA6BSS-Mike> Il ask in habub
[11:07] <Vaizki> I could have done that myself if I had any brains turned on...
[11:08] <SA6BSS-Mike> :)
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[11:14] <Ben-AstroSoc> what was that version of the ATmega328 that had the extra UART port?
[11:14] <craag> atmega328pb
[11:14] <craag> 'b' being the critical bit
[11:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> thanks
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[11:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> coming up with a system to run an autopilot module and figured it'd be better to have all the navigation logic running on a second uC - so needed the extra UART to talk between them
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[11:18] <AndyEsser> autopilot for a HAB?
[11:18] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah - more for concept than actual use
[11:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> we're entering a competition about developing a drone/balloon system to replace probe rockets for atmospheric data prior to an orbital rocket launch
[11:19] <AndyEsser> that sounds kind of awesome :)
[11:20] <Ben-AstroSoc> we can test everything up to a full HAB + recovery in the UK so
[11:20] <Ben-AstroSoc> that last hurdle can be dealt with when we get to it :')
[11:20] <AndyEsser> best of luck
[11:20] <Ben-AstroSoc> thanks
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[11:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> just realised to clock them above 10MHz you need more than 3.3v -.-
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[11:26] <MaxImp> Hello, anyone. I'm totally new to HAB and am just looking at the UKHAS beginners guide. I wondered if anyone could explain what a pre-deployed means when referring to parachutes?
[11:26] <MaxImp> Is it just that there isn't a mechanism to deploy it mid-flight?
[11:26] <fsphil> exactly
[11:26] <MaxImp> :P Thx
[11:26] <fsphil> they're launched already deplyed
[11:27] <MaxImp> How are they kept out of harm's way then?
[11:27] <fsphil> long enough cord between both the payload and balloon
[11:27] <fsphil> it's typical to have maybe 5 metres from payload to chute, and another 2.5 metres to the balloon
[11:28] <SA6BSS-Mike> Ben-AstroSoc: they do work up to 16Mhz @ 3.3V
[11:28] <SA6BSS-Mike> but thats out of spec
[11:28] <MaxImp> So what makes them deploy? Is there somewhere explaining this? I don't want to keep asking stupid questions here :P
[11:30] <SA6BSS-Mike> Ben-AstroSoc: Dave ve3kcl sent out some balloons traveling the world tx in reports on wspr running on solar, he used standras arduino nano borad and run them all on 3.3V and they worked fine even in the most har envirom ent
[11:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Cheese - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Cheese
[11:30] <SA6BSS-Mike> @ 10000m
[11:30] <daveake> MaxImp: air
[11:30] <Ben-AstroSoc> SA6BSS-Mike: ah, so should be ok at 3.3v 14.7MHz then?
[11:30] <SA6BSS-Mike> y
[11:30] <Ben-AstroSoc> Awesome
[11:30] <daveake> The payload etc fall very rapidly - up to 200mph or thereabouts - in the thin air
[11:31] <daveake> 200mph of thin air soon opens the chute
[11:31] <MaxImp> So there's no chance of it being unfurled during ascent?
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[11:32] <SA6BSS-Mike> PE2BZ: any more info on asgard
[11:32] <PE2BZ> MIke no sorry, monitoring 70 cm here and had no (useful) response about the frequency. Nothing on wspr also
[11:32] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok
[11:33] <SA6BSS-Mike> reding on ther fb they had allot of work left for launc
[11:33] <SA6BSS-Mike> so I would be surprised if they launced on time or at all
[11:34] <PE2BZ> it´s kind of a large project with multiple payloads but I guess it will launch. Would be a waste of 6 months project time multiplied by a lot of students...
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[11:36] <PE2BZ> I asked on the ESERO FB page if they could confirm time of launch. However my message has to be approved first. :-(
[11:37] <SA6BSS-Mike> they had like three payload addons in the last minute and 32 things on the chcklist to fix before launch,
[11:38] <SA6BSS-Mike> great!
[11:39] <fsphil> MaxImp: it will open during ascent too, but that won't have much effect. ascent is quite slow
[11:39] <fsphil> it might cause the payload to bounce a bit more as the winds hit the chute
[11:40] <MaxImp> Okay, thank you
[11:41] <PE2BZ> sa6bss-mike which page do you find actual info ? the asgard-vi messages are about 13 hours old over here.
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[11:46] <Vaizki> Ben-AstroSoc, why do you need >8MHz?
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[11:47] <daveake> Maximp The only risk really is that the line up to whatever's left of the balloon manages to overtake the chute and wrap around it. My first flight - where my lines were too short - had this happen, with a landing speed approx double that planned.
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[11:52] <MaxImp> Oh wow, dave, I was just reading your birthday balloon post :D didn't realise it was you
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[12:05] <Matt_PrjHet> Afternoon all
[12:06] <Matt_PrjHet> Can anyone point me in the direction of an ImageMagick tutorial/HowTo/Instructions?
[12:06] <daveake> yes, I admit, I had a birthday this year
[12:06] <daveake> Matt_PrjHet Have fun :p
[12:06] <Matt_PrjHet> Oh hey daveake!
[12:06] <Matt_PrjHet> Exiv2 looks to be running.
[12:06] <daveake> My sample script not enough? :)
[12:07] <Matt_PrjHet> The script is doing something.
[12:07] <daveake> Run it manually on a fixed image, so you can test stuff
[12:07] <Matt_PrjHet> It's deleting the SSDV.jpg from the tracker folder.
[12:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> Vaizki: because 8MHz can't do 57600baud UART accurately
[12:07] <daveake> That image should be the same dimensions as you want to transmit
[12:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> It has an error of -3.5% which iirc is over double what's acceptable
[12:08] <Matt_PrjHet> I tried reading the script but my Linux is pretty rudimentary. Should it delete it?
[12:08] <daveake> Ben-AstroSoc What's on the other end of the 57,600 link?
[12:08] <Vaizki> Ben-AstroSoc, ok well now I have to ask what do you need that for?
[12:08] <Ben-AstroSoc> An ardupilot board
[12:09] <Vaizki> sending or receiving?
[12:09] <Ben-AstroSoc> Sending to it
[12:10] <Matt_PrjHet> The data is the jpeg comments. (Though only when I look on the Pi, I can't see it via samba.)
[12:10] <Matt_PrjHet> *in
[12:11] <daveake> It's in the jpeg comment field not the EXIF data
[12:11] <Vaizki> Ben-AstroSoc, I have a bit of trouble seeing how the atmega can create meaningful commands for ardupilot at a rate that needs 57600bps
[12:11] <daveake> yeah me to
[12:11] <daveake> o
[12:12] <daveake> "go to x,y,z", once
[12:12] <Ben-AstroSoc> Vaizki: do they tend to struggle that high?
[12:12] <Vaizki> well yes but what I meant is that are you making decisions that fast anyway
[12:13] <Ben-AstroSoc> It doesn't constantly stream data do it - it's used to intermittently send set messages to it
[12:13] <Vaizki> at 9600 bps you can send a 50 byte command 20 times per second
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[12:14] <richardeoin> Ben-AstroSoc: sounds like an interesting competition
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[12:14] <richardeoin> do you have any more details?
[12:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> It's called ActInSpace
[12:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> It's a hackathon style thing held 20-21may, one in Harwell, one in Greenwich
[12:15] <Vaizki> anyway I would not recommend going beyond 9600bps
[12:16] <Vaizki> it's unlikely that you are getting for example GPS information faster than 1Hz so making decisions on an atmega328p at a faster rate seems a bit far fetched?
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[12:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> I believe the ardupilot might have configurable baud rate, I'll have to check
[12:17] <richardeoin> heh thanks Ben-AstroSoc
[12:18] <Ben-AstroSoc> The nav computer that will be controlling the autopilot won't be sending more than two message a second so it's more to match the ardupilot than to keep up with decision making
[12:18] <daveake> It has its own GPS too, and could be pre-programmed with target position, waypoints etc in advance. Not sure exactly why there needs to be a link - what does the tracker know that the Ardupilot doesn't?
[12:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> Ardupilot is much harder to reprogram to dynamically select a landing zone
[12:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> Given they you can never know the exact flight path
[12:19] <daveake> Harder to reprogram because ...? You get full source code don't you?
[12:20] <Ben-AstroSoc> Ya but learning what someone else has written in 1000s of lines of code is harder than writing our own setup >_>
[12:20] <daveake> sure
[12:21] <daveake> OK fine. How will your tracker know where ardupilot needs to aim for?
[12:21] <Ben-AstroSoc> But if the ardupilot uses its GPS module it still has to pas that back to the avionics computer to transmit the HAB tracking
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[12:21] <Ben-AstroSoc> The tracker will be preprogrammed with sample LZs along the flight path
[12:21] <Ben-AstroSoc> Is our current model
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[12:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> And will select the best case on cut-down based on the known glide ratio of the airframe
[12:22] <daveake> OK good, and presumably this calculation will include the wind speeds/directions measured on the way up ?
[12:23] <Ben-AstroSoc> Yep, there will be a full set of atmospheric sensors
[12:23] <daveake> Wlel GPS will tell you that.
[12:24] <Ben-AstroSoc> Good point
[12:24] <daveake> I thought so :p
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[12:24] <daveake> I may or may not be working on something not entirely unrlated
[12:24] <Ben-AstroSoc> Idea being this thing can accurately measure wind shear so will have to write an algorithm to work that out
[12:25] <Ben-AstroSoc> I have a whiteboard covered in notes but it's in orange ink so impossible to read on a pic
[12:26] <Ben-AstroSoc> If you work out a way to fly the thing legally in the UK let me know :P
[12:26] <daveake> :)
[12:27] <Ben-AstroSoc> I can do drop tests at 800feet and I haven't got any further
[12:27] <SIbot> In real units: 800 ft = 244 m
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[12:34] <fsphil> SIbot for president
[12:34] <AndyEsser> ^
[12:35] <Vostok> y
[12:35] Action: SM0ULC-Reb 's 2 feet are cold.
[12:36] <mattbrejza> make SI great again
[12:36] <bradfirj> Anyone know off the top of their head a good temperature compensated oscillator that'll cope with HAB flights
[12:37] <edmoore> any
[12:37] <bradfirj> Cool, it's not an extreme enviornment for those parts then?
[12:37] <bradfirj> That'll do, off to the catalog
[12:37] <edmoore> just find one in farnell/newark/digikey/whoever that is the freq you want
[12:37] <edmoore> yeah they should all be fine
[12:37] <edmoore> note that some of them can be quite thirsty
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[12:38] <bradfirj> I'm thinking from a TDM point of view, at low data rates the clock accuracy isn't all that important but I suspect the internal clock on an STM32 is going to wander all over the show in the cold
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[12:42] <fsphil> dunno about the stm32, but clock drift may have caused problems with the uart comms between gps and an avr on a few older flights
[12:43] <Laurenceb_> stm32 internal osc ?! sounds like a bad idea in the cold
[12:43] <Laurenceb_> I'd check the rated temperature on oscillators
[12:43] <fsphil> if it's not using serial it might not matter so much
[12:44] <mattbrejza> the stm32 internal is much better than the AVRs in teh cold
[12:44] <mattbrejza> in terms of how much they drift
[12:44] <Matt_PrjHet> daveake should imagemagick write to the image 'ssdv.jpg' in the tracker folder? Or the RTTY folder? (It looks like the former with my rudimental understanding.)
[12:44] <mattbrejza> on the f0 anyway
[12:44] <daveake> tracker folder
[12:44] <daveake> all temp files go there
[12:45] <daveake> That's where the camera photo will be, and that's where your resulting file should end up
[12:45] <fsphil> a RAM based /tmp would be good for that
[12:45] <daveake> yeah
[12:45] <daveake> Next A+ has 521MB of RAM so more scope for that
[12:45] <Matt_PrjHet> Whenever I run the process, it deletes that file.
[12:45] <daveake> 512 ofc
[12:45] <daveake> Yes, hence the word "temporary" :)
[12:46] <fsphil> hah
[12:46] <Matt_PrjHet> :s
[12:46] <Matt_PrjHet> Ah
[12:46] <Matt_PrjHet> temporary would imply it renders then copies to somewhere else?
[12:47] <daveake> Camera takes photos. One photo gets selected and copied. This copy gets manipulated (optionally), then converted to ssdv format. All the original photo files get moved to the RTTY folder
[12:48] <Matt_PrjHet> That optional manipulation. Is there a 'run imagemagick' component I'm missing?
[12:48] <Matt_PrjHet> I've downloaded Imagemagick. The data is in the jpegs. The script is doing something... But I'm not seeing images with data anywhere.
[12:50] <daveake> The result is ssdv.hpj
[12:50] <daveake> ample script is https://github.com/PiInTheSky/pits/blob/master/tracker/process_image.sample
[12:51] <daveake> ssdv.jpg
[12:51] <Matt_PrjHet> Yeah. That one.
[12:52] <Matt_PrjHet> It's deleting ssdv.jpg as soon as I run the script.
[12:52] <daveake> What you need to do is, a s I said, use the software to take a photo at the resolution you want to use, then mess around with imagemagick to add what you need
[12:52] <daveake> Yes it does, then it makes a new one
[12:52] <Matt_PrjHet> I'm not getting the new one...
[12:53] <Matt_PrjHet> :(
[12:53] <daveake> You're not passing the para,eters to the script then
[12:53] <daveake> see line 2
[12:54] <daveake> $1 isn't used by this script but $2 (source file) is
[12:55] <mattbrejza> whats the new notam address these days?
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[12:55] <Matt_PrjHet> I'm sorry, that one's gone over my head...
[12:55] <daveake> AROps@caa.co.uk
[12:55] <mattbrejza> thanks
[12:55] <Matt_PrjHet> Is $1 the ssdv.jpg that exists in that folder anyway?
[12:56] <daveake> The script tells you - $1 is the channel number. It's not used. Just put in zero
[12:57] <daveake> You may be missing that $1 and $2 are the first and second command-line parameters entered when you run the script
[12:57] <Matt_PrjHet> #!/bin/bash
[12:57] <Matt_PrjHet> echo Processing image $2 for channel $1#!/bin/bash
[12:57] <Matt_PrjHet> echo Processing image $2 for channel $1
[12:57] <Matt_PrjHet> #
[12:57] <Matt_PrjHet> # This script gets telemetry from the jpeg file comment field, and overlays image with a$
[12:57] <Matt_PrjHet> #
[12:57] <Matt_PrjHet> rm -f ssdv.jpg
[12:57] <Matt_PrjHet> TELEMETRY="$(exiv2 -pc $2)"
[12:57] <Matt_PrjHet> Wait that doesn't look right.
[12:58] <edmoore> pastebin
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[13:05] <daveake> Matt_PrjHet: I strongly suggest that rather than try to learn shell programming and imagemagick in one go, that you create the simplest possible imagemagick command to read a file, add some text somewhere, abd write to an output file. Mess around with that using fixed text till you get the layout you want. After that, put your command into my sample script
[13:05] <daveake> (replacing the imagemagick command that's there), and replace yor fixed text with telemetry variables - altitude or whatever.
[13:06] <daveake> 'cos right now you're trying to deal with my script, shell programming and imagemagick, all of which are new to you, in one go
[13:07] <daveake> also I have to pop out and this will keep you quiet for a while :p
[13:07] <Matt_PrjHet> Spot on!
[13:08] <Matt_PrjHet> Righto, will do. I was expecting (hoping!?) there was something pre-existing to fill that gap!
[13:08] <Matt_PrjHet> I'll get my books out. (I did a 3 day shell course about 10 years ago..!)
[13:09] <DL7AD1> thomas and i are probably going to launch an ssdv floater tomorrow (no solar, frequency 145.300MHz). we will probably try 2GFSK an SSDV transmission. but we still discuss this. (tag SM0ULC-Reb)
[13:09] <Matt_PrjHet> Thanks for clarifying Dave :)
[13:10] Nick change: DL7AD1 -> DL7AD
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[13:17] Action: Laurenceb_ has been playing with CAM-8M
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> this is really nice with battery backup
[13:18] <Laurenceb_> gets lock in <500ms on my office window, every time
[13:18] <Laurenceb_> even through coated double glazing panels
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[13:21] <PE2BZ> Laurenceb is that the new PiCam ?
[13:22] <Laurenceb_> wut no its a ublox8 with integrated antenna
[13:23] <PE2BZ> Srry ;-)
[13:24] <mattbrejza> + LNA?
[13:24] <Laurenceb_> nope
[13:24] <Laurenceb_> well I dunno, looks like a SAW on the module
[13:24] <mattbrejza> seems odd that it would be better without one
[13:24] <Laurenceb_> I should take the EMI cover off one but they are pricey
[13:25] <Laurenceb_> also you need to follow layout guidelines to the letter
[13:25] <mattbrejza> does that mean you got it wrong and it didnt work?
[13:25] <Laurenceb_> well I tried on with wire dead bug for a laugh
[13:25] <Laurenceb_> no luck whatsoever
[13:25] <mattbrejza> datasheet says LNA + SAW
[13:26] <Laurenceb_> I should read datasheet more closely lol
[13:26] <mattbrejza> but surely all it needs is power and data? what part of the layout matters?
[13:26] <Laurenceb_> its got integrated chip antenna
[13:26] <Laurenceb_> incorrect ground plane detunes it
[13:27] <mattbrejza> oh right, i would have thought that it would require no ground plane below it, so PCB or deadbug should be the same
[13:27] <Laurenceb_> nope, the ground plane around it is "resonant"
[13:29] <mattbrejza> so it does
[13:30] <mattbrejza> reading integration manual..
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[13:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD0ZTV-4 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0ZTV-4
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[14:03] <Ian_> Matt_PrjHet are you using Linux?
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[14:12] <Matt_PrjHet> Yes, Ian_ Well, I'm PuTTYing into Wheezy Raspbian.
[14:13] <Ian_> OK if you have imagemagick installed, which I think you probably do then you can play with it from the command line.
[14:14] <Ian_> Get yourself a simple image and use the 'convert' command - imagemagick itself appears to be a built in
[14:15] <Ian_> convert myimage.png myimage.jpg
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[14:16] <Matt_PrjHet> Oh OK, will do. Just plugging the Pi back in.
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[14:17] <Ian_> look at http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/resize/#resize
[14:18] <Ian_> Google is your friend. Look for examples of the component bits that you want to do as IM is a HUGE beast
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[14:19] <Ian_> convert is probably the most used tool that you need and it is also comprehensive as you will have noticed from Dave's code.
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[14:20] <MikeUoN> Does anyone know if it is possible to configure the MAX M8C to only output GGA?
[14:21] <Matt_PrjHet> I'll have a read and a play, thanks Ian_!
[14:21] <mattbrejza> it is
[14:22] <Matt_PrjHet> I need to get my head round channels and $1 etc. I'm sure I did it years ago but vodka has long since taken its toll...
[14:22] <MikeUoN> ok thanks matt :)
[14:22] <MikeUoN> Just spotted it :)
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[14:24] <MikeUoN> It is using UBX-CFG-MSG, right?
[14:24] <MikeUoN> I can't see where it says how to turn everything else off oops
[14:26] <Ian_> Matt_PrjHet convert myimage.png -resize 64x64 myimage1.png
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[14:28] <Ian_> convert myimage.png - resize %20 myimage2,png
[14:29] <mattbrejza> the lazy method is to open ucetnre and let it give you the correct sentence
[14:29] <Ian_> of course you can also change formats at the same time as resizing. Best at the moment to ensure you don't overwrite the original.
[14:30] <Ian_> Alas mattbrejza is talking about Ublox and not imagemagik :)
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[14:32] <Ian_> It's not a far jump to putting the convert command into a bash loop and incrementing variables to increment the output filename and the resize increment.
[14:33] <Ian_> You are happy with bash loops?
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[14:34] <j0nnymac> hello
[14:34] <fsphil> no-one is happy with bash loops
[14:35] <Matt_PrjHet> Funnily enough I was just commenting earlier how usually I'm a Moss or a Roy. ...Then I come on here and I'm totally a Jen. Bash loops eh? Googling.
[14:35] <Ian_> So sort out the mechanics of convert manually and then once your script is working then build it into a loop to experience the power. You can of course pass the variables in on the command line with positional parameters and refer to them as $1, $2 etc.
[14:35] <j0nnymac> any awesome folk from Churchill here?
[14:35] <j0nnymac> i have a favour to ask :)
[14:36] <Matt_PrjHet> I get the concept Ian_ , but I haven't written any since that course I did years ago!
[14:36] <Ian_> fsphil I usually have to open a monitor and give myself a bit of a refresh as I don't use them very often these days
[14:36] <Matt_PrjHet> Time to relearn :)
[14:36] <fsphil> same here Ian_. I've always fogotten how they work by the time I have to use them again
[14:36] <Ian_> I'll look out an example or two. Again it's a rich environment
[14:36] <fsphil> but even so, it's quite ugly
[14:37] <fsphil> I'm not a fan of doing anything beyond very simple scripting in bash
[14:37] <Ian_> Same with imagemagick. I know the basics, and look up examples to reach my goal.
[14:38] <Ian_> I used to write a fair bit of bash, usually as a wrapper for nawk (these days gawk)
[14:39] <edmoore> j0nnymac: try adamgreig
[14:39] <j0nnymac> brill - thank you!
[14:39] <Ian_> I did start with awk on Solaris, and couldn't figure how it was crippled. nawk took care of that though and gawk is even more able.
[14:40] <Ian_> Off to work a loop example.
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[14:48] <Matt_PrjHet> Thanks Ian_ & fsphil - I've run out of time today but you've put me on the right track. Much Obliged!
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[14:57] <daveake> Ian_: Matt_PrjHet No need for loops in this
[14:57] <daveake> The script gets run once per image to download. It only needs to do things once.
[14:58] <daveake> Matt_PrjHet> I need to get my head round channels and $1 etc. I'm sure I did it years ago but vodka has long since taken its toll...
[14:59] <daveake> $1 is the channel number but that's not important right now. Channel is 0 for RTTY, 1 for APRS, 2/3 for LoRa. In your case it'll only ever be zero
[14:59] <daveake> $2 is the image filename, as I explained
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[15:01] <edmoore> $30 is the cost of a new raspberry pi after you mess this up
[15:01] <Ian_> Hi daveake OK on that. I was looking to split IM and bash so to introduce the concept of variables
[15:02] <Ian_> Having given myself a refresher, your convert code makes good sense to me. Brain food
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[15:09] <j0nnymac> adamgreig: hey there
[15:11] <adamgreig> hi j0nnymac
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[15:14] <j0nnymac> hey there adamgreig :)
[15:14] <j0nnymac> can i ask a favour?
[15:14] <j0nnymac> we are looking to do another launch in June
[15:14] <j0nnymac> i was wondering if we might be able to use the awesome facilities at Churchill again?
[15:15] <j0nnymac> obviously there would be a curry in it
[15:16] <PE2BZ> Asgard VI is launched. Don´t know the exact time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAfhvRlrKlI
[15:17] <adamgreig> j0nnymac: you'll have to email contact@cusf.co.uk and ask, new committee now so it's their call
[15:18] <j0nnymac> fair play - thanks for the pointer
[15:18] <j0nnymac> ill drop them an email
[15:19] <Matt_PrjHet> Noted daveake, thanks again. Lots of homework to do before I come back :)
[15:19] <daveake> That's the short version of what I suggested :)
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[15:48] <fsphil> http://www.nature.com/news/software-error-doomed-japanese-hitomi-spacecraft-1.19835
[15:48] <fsphil> :/
[15:51] <adamgreig> :(
[15:51] <fsphil> that's a whole series of awful
[15:51] <fsphil> this thing was doomed in so many ways
[15:52] <AndyEsser> :(
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[16:08] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[16:09] <bradfirj> Presumably it spun up so fast damage was caused? Or they simply couldn't contact it to issue a new command?
[16:09] <craag> spun up so fast it came apart
[16:09] <craag> broke apart, panels came off, etc
[16:10] <craag> (doesn't need to be that fast, satellites are delicate)
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[16:11] <craag> all happened after handoff from USA groundstation, and before Japan AoS
[16:12] <craag> well the noticable bits
[16:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VA6ISS - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VA6ISS
[16:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VA6DKM - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VA6DKM
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[16:16] Nick change: hehuj -> CopyCoin
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[16:18] <SA6BSS-Mike> Hitomi spinning roughly once every 5.2 seconds.
[16:22] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p54889CB2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[16:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03NOTAFLIGHT after 035 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NOTAFLIGHT
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[16:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VE4DVD - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE4DVD
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[16:45] <craag> !dial NOTAFLIGHT
[16:45] <SpacenearUS> 03craag: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
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[17:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CHANGEME - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CHANGEME
[17:16] <daveake> !dial CHANGEME
[17:16] <SpacenearUS> 03daveake: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[17:16] <daveake> :)
[17:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> good thing there is a flight doc with that name, makes testing easy
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[17:16] <daveake> payload doc, yes
[17:17] <SA6BSS-Mike> ah, yes
[17:17] <SA6BSS-Mike> is it pisky that comed with that name preprogramed ?'
[17:17] <SA6BSS-Mike> or should say default name in the software
[17:18] <daveake> default in the config file, yes
[17:19] <SA6BSS-Mike> oki
[17:26] <OZ7EMA> Hi all
[17:26] <OZ7EMA> one question did anyone used the RFGA2012 for amplification of APRS signal?
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[17:56] <PE2BZ> OZ7ENA I have no experience with that part. But APRS RX or TX ? And which frequency ? with 0,1 Watt max input and (5.5 V * 0.035 A) 0.192 W power consumption I assume it is RX amp.
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[17:56] Action: PE2BZ 0,1 Watt ? 0.1 Watt
[17:56] <OZ7EMA> yes RX
[17:56] <OZ7EMA> sorry TX
[17:57] <OZ7EMA> should go on a light weight HAB
[17:57] <PE2BZ> TX with max ouput of 20 dBm / 0.1 Watt ?
[17:57] <OZ7EMA> i use a SI4060 to generate the signal and then wanted to amplify it
[17:58] <OZ7EMA> right
[17:58] <OZ7EMA> but just found another one.. MMZ09332BT1 seems to do a better job
[17:58] <PE2BZ> THe SI4060 seems capable of 20 dBm itself. So the RFGA would not add to that ?
[17:59] <OZ7EMA> true
[17:59] <PE2BZ> and 2 meter or 70 cm ?
[18:00] <OZ7EMA> 2m
[18:00] <PE2BZ> SI4060 is not guaranteed @ 145 MHz
[18:00] <OZ7EMA> i know but seeing from some other pojects looks like it works
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[18:00] <OZ7EMA> you know any better?
[18:02] <PE2BZ> Sorry. RFGA2012 is not guaranteed @145 MHz. And the MMZ is only 23 dBm so that would make 0.2 Watt. What´s your goal ?
[18:03] <OZ7EMA> just to get some more power out
[18:03] <OZ7EMA> thats all
[18:04] <OZ7EMA> in the hope to get some locations even in more remote areas
[18:06] <PE2BZ> Radiometrix http://www.radiometrix.com/content/hx1 an idea ?
[18:07] <OZ7EMA> too heavy
[18:07] <OZ7EMA> i already used that on on other projects
[18:08] <OZ7EMA> but would say getting up to 200mW is already somehting
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[18:08] <OZ7EMA> HX1 has 300mW
[18:08] <PE2BZ> Ok. 200 mW is +3 dB or halve a point on the signal scale
[18:09] <OZ7EMA> hope it is worth it :)
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[18:10] <PE2BZ> https://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/PGA-103+.pdf I used this one for a 910 MHz TV transmitter to raise the output
[18:12] <OZ7EMA> thank you very much!
[18:12] <OZ7EMA> i will have a look :)
[18:13] <PE2BZ> Your welcome... Bye for now and good luck !
[18:13] Action: PE2BZ is going to turn all the rf equipment off for tonight
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[18:17] <OZ7EMA> thank you! have a good evening
[18:18] <SA6BSS-Mike> orded my wspr habs boards a couple of days ago https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26543754/wspr%20balloon4.png
[18:18] <SA6BSS-Mike> going for a si5351a barebone, should cover half the world on 15mW :)
[18:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UBSEDS15 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS15
[18:20] <SA6BSS-Mike> cool page if u want to look at your .brd files in 3d http://3dbrdviewer.cytec.bg/
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[18:21] <mattbrejza> ive found that page doesnt like eagle outlines for whatever reason
[18:22] <SA6BSS-Mike> noticed that to, had to copy outlines from another project into this eagle to make it work http://3dbrdviewer.cytec.bg/
[18:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> does anyone know if usbasp supports ATmega328pb or am i gonna have to rework my toolchain
[18:22] <SA6BSS-Mike> it works
[18:24] <SA6BSS-Mike> mattbrejza: used this outline from 3.2 and the it worked https://github.com/ok1cdj/Picotracker
[18:24] <mattbrejza> well i havnt had any luck with non-square boards
[18:25] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok, luckly I?m going with square bords :)'
[18:36] <Ben-AstroSoc> does anyone knwo what the -AU suffix on atmega uCs means?
[18:37] <Ben-AstroSoc> want to make sur ei get the right one
[18:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> oh i think it's how it's delivered
[18:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> nvm
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[18:47] <mfa298> quite possibly package type is that's what you mean, it should be in the datasheet.
[18:49] <Ben-AstroSoc> only place that has them is digikey so gotta wait on shipping -.-
[18:51] <Ben-AstroSoc> got 5 on the way + an avrisp mk2 as my usbasp doesn't work with 328pb by the looks of it
[18:53] <Ben-AstroSoc> gonna have to get hold of some solder paste and flux i think
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[20:43] <MikeUoN> Hi could someone have a quick look at this drawing, and tell me if I have the correct understanding of RTTY please? http://picpaste.com/pics/rtty-eT8EEICj.1461876163.png
[20:43] <MikeUoN> Not too sure how you determine the value of the stop bits
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> It's not RTTY, it's RS232
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:45] <daey> can i use an n-channel mosfet to select different voltage dividers to change the opamp amplification?
[20:45] <daey> DC
[20:47] <OZ7EMA> SA6BSS
[20:47] <Vaizki> daey: say what?
[20:47] <edmoore> daey: yes absolutely
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> daey: you know about the body diode?
[20:48] <daey> isnt it connected to the Gate?
[20:48] <edmoore> you'll have to be careful of the swing
[20:48] <OZ7EMA> SA6BSS are you there? Would have a question regarding si5351
[20:48] <edmoore> so normally people use like a 4066 multiplexer for gains switching
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> daey: the body diode is connected between drain and source - MOSFETs can only not conduct one way
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[20:49] <daey> i wasnt sure as a npn transistor obviously would introduce non linearity due to the 0.7ish voltage drop
[20:49] <edmoore> internally that's just an n and a p in parallel with the gates tied together (with one of the gates through an inverter)
[20:49] <Vaizki> MikeUoN: more like http://i.stack.imgur.com/w6xDs.jpg
[20:49] <daey> does that mean its actually conductive from Source to drain while gate isnt powered?
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[20:51] <Vaizki> MikeUoN: the picture is a bit misleading because the data bits are boxes but basically means they can be high or low
[20:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LeMi - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LeMi
[20:55] <tweetBot> @AmsatUK: #UBSEDS15 balloon launch by @bristolseds Sat April 30 listen 434.600 MHz USB https://t.co/sFFrFCjYQH #amsat #hamradio #hamr #ukhas @UKSEDS
[20:55] <Vaizki> MikeUoN: the reason for start and stop bits is really because this is asynchronous serial.. there is no clock shared between the sender and receiver so the receiver needs a synchronization event which is the transition from stop bit to start bit (1 to 0). then it will wait out the start bit and start decoding
[20:57] <MikeUoN> hi sorry, I'll be back in 10 mins
[20:57] <tweetBot> @John_Northants: @astro_niks Another thing to try https://t.co/rTQuNjJfLi
[20:58] <MikeUoN> I'll reread it soon thanks
[20:58] <fsphil> MikeUoN: you've got your start bit in as a stop bit
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[21:02] <redmi> Hi everybody, now I have my payload ready and the flight scheduled on May 2nd
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[21:02] <redmi> (it is called LeMi2 and it is on the map)
[21:02] <redmi> how can I get my flight approved?
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[21:04] <adamgreig> paste the flight document ID in #habhub
[21:07] <MikeUoN> Ah okay Vaizki and fsphil
[21:07] <MikeUoN> I think I understand a bit better now
[21:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LeMi_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LeMi_chase
[21:08] <MikeUoN> Vaizki, would that example you posted be 8bits, No parity, 1.5 stop bits?
[21:11] <dbrooke> it's 2 stop bits to the vertical dashed line
[21:11] <dbrooke> 1.5 to where the arrow is
[21:12] <dbrooke> you can think of the specified stop bits as being the minimum time to remain high, hence the optional extra delay before the start bit
[21:13] <MikeUoN> ah okay that makes sense!
[21:13] <fsphil> it's more a stop state. it can be any length, minimum 1 bit
[21:13] <fsphil> even fractions of bits
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[21:14] <fsphil> usually just rounded to whole bits for simplicity
[21:14] <MikeUoN> Would 7 character bits just be the standard ASCII codes, with the MSB lopped off?
[21:15] <fsphil> normally yes
[21:15] <fsphil> but up to the receiver software of course
[21:15] <dbrooke> you also need to consider which bit is sent first
[21:15] <MikeUoN> *googles for how fldigi does it*
[21:15] <dbrooke> I can't remember the standard order
[21:16] <Ben-AstroSoc> we did MSB first
[21:16] <Ben-AstroSoc> i think
[21:16] <fsphil> (spoiler: yeah, fldigi treats it as 7-bit ascii)
[21:16] Action: Ben-AstroSoc goes to check
[21:16] <fsphil> LSB first
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[21:16] <Ben-AstroSoc> yep you're right
[21:16] <Ben-AstroSoc> thought we were shifting hte wrong way
[21:17] <MikeUoN> lsb sounds like rs232 ;)
[21:17] <fsphil> strange that
[21:17] <fsphil> take the R out of RTTY :)
[21:17] <MikeUoN> lol
[21:18] <MikeUoN> okay, now I just need to get my radio IC working
[21:18] <fsphil> which one did you go for?
[21:19] <MikeUoN> MICRF112
[21:19] <MikeUoN> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/96892.pdf
[21:19] <MikeUoN> fsk mode
[21:19] <MikeUoN> I have it transmitting a steady tone
[21:19] <fsphil> ah yes, I think you linked this before
[21:20] <redmi> adamgreig: Thank you. Done :)
[21:20] <MikeUoN> I'm quite amazed at the M8C
[21:21] <MikeUoN> I have a 2.5cm piece of wire, no radials or anything and it fixes no problem at all
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[21:22] <MikeUoN> I'm done with directional antennas, after my last flight flew inverted after bursting :o)
[21:23] <Vaizki> even more amazing is that the L1 gps signal is 26dB below the noise floor and it gets a lock with that "antenna"
[21:24] <MikeUoN> :O
[21:24] <Vaizki> they pump 40dB of gain into the signal to process it
[21:24] <MikeUoN> wowza
[21:25] <MikeUoN> do you know which datasheet they specify that?
[21:25] <MikeUoN> ublox make so many datasheets :P
[21:25] <Vaizki> nope that's just general gps stuff
[21:25] <Vaizki> it's like .. magic.. :)
[21:25] <russss> I presume it has a pretty decent internal filter in it as well then
[21:26] <russss> because usually that stuff is in the antenna
[21:26] <MikeUoN> so cool
[21:26] <Vaizki> russss: yes of course it has a narrow filter but it's 26dB below the noise inside that filter..
[21:27] <Vaizki> the receiver has to be in perfect sync with the transmitter to pull out the signal which rides encoded on a pseudorandom code
[21:28] <Vaizki> CDMA is the word..
[21:28] <Vaizki> anyway, you will never see a GPS signal on a spectrum analyzer because it's buried way down there in the noise
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[21:29] <mattbrejza> does that MICRF have a low enough minimum shift or are you pulling it?
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[21:32] <Vaizki> In the frequency allocation filing the L1 C/A power is listed as 25.6 Watts. The Antenna gain is listed at 13 dBi. Thus, based on the frequency allocation filing, the power would be about 500 Watts (27 dBW).
[21:32] <Vaizki> Now, the free space path loss from 21000 km is about 182 dB. Take the 500 Watts (27 dBW) and subtract the free space path loss (27 - 182) and you get -155 dBW. The end of life spec is -160 dBW, which leaves a 5 dB margin.
[21:32] <Vaizki> from the internets..
[21:32] <Vaizki> so yes, it truly is a miracle what a M8C or M8Q can do with that
[21:33] <Vaizki> anyway, off to sleep for me
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[21:35] <MikeUoN> that's what im worried about mattbrejza
[21:36] <MikeUoN> what's pulling it?
[21:36] <mattbrejza> changing the capacitance on the crystal to get frequency shifts that way
[21:37] <MikeUoN> oh never heard of that
[21:37] <mattbrejza> theres a wiki page on it
[21:38] <mattbrejza> oh i just noticed the way that part works is by pulling
[21:38] <mattbrejza> so yea, probably fine as it is
[21:38] <MikeUoN> just writing something to toggle the data pin
[21:39] <MikeUoN> do you use pics at all?
[21:39] <mattbrejza> nope
[21:40] <MikeUoN> ah
[21:40] <MikeUoN> was gonna suggest Code Configurator, saves so much time when setting up peripherals
[21:42] <mattbrejza> i would suggest you dont use pics ;)
[21:43] <MikeUoN> Heresy! :P
[21:46] <MikeUoN> tbh, im sending it a 280Hz square wave and it doesnt seem to be moving at all
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[21:46] <mattbrejza> have you verified there is a 280Hz square wave on the FSK MOD pin?
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[21:50] <MikeUoN> FSK DATA (pin 6) yeah
[21:51] <mattbrejza> and there is a cap going from the SW pin to the crystal?
[21:51] <mattbrejza> (i dont actually ahve the datasheet open anymore)
[21:51] <mattbrejza> you could remove the cap and test that switch is operating
[21:51] <mattbrejza> i assume its open drain though
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[21:55] <MikeUoN> Just for my benefit... Do you mean C8 (ignore NP) here? http://picpaste.com/pics/sudden_realisation-2LFE03mL.1461880482.png
[21:55] <mattbrejza> yea
[21:56] <MikeUoN> ok, now hypothetically speaking... Would the FSK not work if C8 was not placed? Hypothetically speaking. ;)
[21:57] <mattbrejza> well hypothetically speaking...
[21:57] <mattbrejza> C8 is what actaually causes the frequency shift
[21:57] <MikeUoN> that might be the problem :D
[21:57] <MikeUoN> oops
[21:57] <mattbrejza> heh
[21:58] <MikeUoN> at least I placed the footprint, will add it tomorrow
[21:58] <mattbrejza> :)
[21:58] <MikeUoN> LoL, thanks matt, really appreciate your help
[21:58] <mattbrejza> np
[22:01] <Ben-AstroSoc> is there a certain type of capacitor/resistor i tend to want to be using for surface mounting? not done it before so don't really know what to look for
[22:02] <mattbrejza> probably best to start with 0805
[22:02] <mattbrejza> or 0603 if you have access to nice irons
[22:02] <daey> sticking to what the manufacturer recommends in the example circuit is usually a good start
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[22:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> what's the difference between 0805 and 0603?
[22:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> let's assume i have a good quality iron with needle tip
[22:04] <adamgreig> about 0202
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[22:04] <Ben-AstroSoc> :^)
[22:04] <adamgreig> 0805 is a lot easier to do by hand if you've never done SMD before
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[22:04] <Ben-AstroSoc> 0805 it is
[22:04] <adamgreig> 0603 is really quite fine to do by hand in my opinion, even if you've never done SMD before, but it's definitely trickier
[22:05] <russss> 0805 is plenty small enough for most things anyhow
[22:05] <fsphil> magnification helps
[22:05] <russss> the numbers are in some manner of imperial measurement
[22:06] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah have all the kit, we've done some digsutingly small boards at home, just never done it myself before
[22:06] <fsphil> something that's long been on my todo list is to get a good stereo microscope for soldering
[22:06] <russss> I've tried doing stuff with a stereo scope but I can't really get used to them
[22:06] <miek> just don't get 0603 metric :p
[22:06] <russss> scope always seems to be in the way
[22:07] <fsphil> some are better than others
[22:07] <russss> we have an old soviet one at London Hackspace which is pretty good optically
[22:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> they don't teach us anything about component classification damn
[22:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> it shoul dbe a module
[22:07] <fsphil> the one I used had a decent area between the bottom of the lens and the base
[22:08] <miek> i really like the stereo scope we've got here, no idea what it is
[22:08] <fsphil> it was an amscope, which seems hard to get in the uk
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[22:13] <fsphil> this one I think, http://www.amazon.com/AmScope-SE305R-P-Forward-Mounted-Microscope-Magnification/dp/B004T80NDI
[22:13] <fsphil> good price. wonder if it's free shipping over the pond :)
[22:14] <Ben-AstroSoc> i'm spending this weekend splashing out on some quality tools and such
[22:14] <Ben-AstroSoc> the old man got sick of me stealing his
[22:14] <adamgreig> get a nice soldering iron
[22:14] <adamgreig> jbc cd-2be perhaps
[22:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Antex-XS25-Powered-Mains-Soldering/dp/B00862W052/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1461881709&sr=8-13&keywords=soldering+irons was going to get this or the next one up
[22:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> is the lm317 a decent surface mount voltage reg? it's adjustable
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[22:21] <russss> Ben-AstroSoc: 25W non-temp-controlled soldering iron is probably not great for SMD
[22:21] <russss> this is good + not too pricey http://www.banggood.com/TS100-Digital-OLED-Programable-Interface-DC-5525-Soldering-Iron-Station-Built-in-STM32-Chip-p-984214.html
[22:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> i've bookmarked that, thanks
[22:25] <russss> LM317 is like the bog standard adjustable linear regulator. If you're powering off batteries then a low-drop-out reg might be better
[22:25] <russss> also if you just want 3.3V or whatever then buy a 3.3V regulator and then you don't have to worry about external passives
[22:26] <Ben-AstroSoc> i just found the ap1117
[22:26] <Ben-AstroSoc> migh tuse that
[22:26] <Ben-AstroSoc> does 5V and 3.3V variants
[22:33] <Ben-AstroSoc> have literally 0 libraries on this computer so at least getting used tobuilding my own components
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[22:48] <Ben-AstroSoc> oh, you can get lm1117I in SMD that works at -40
[22:48] <Ben-AstroSoc> oops
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[23:06] <MikeUoN> phew the solar charging works too that's a relief :P
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[23:18] <Laurenceb_> holy shit http://hackaday.com/2016/04/28/colin-furze-flies-the-dangerous-skies/
[23:18] <Laurenceb_> Colin Furze has done some real engineering
[23:18] <Laurenceb_> are veyr pro too
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> he gets crossed off my list of youtube prats
[23:20] <Laurenceb_> MikeUoN: pico with solar charging?
[23:20] <MikeUoN> Hi Laurence, yeah
[23:21] <MikeUoN> now if only i could this 0.012 mAh battery that would save a lot of weight :P
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> any photos?
[23:22] <MikeUoN> not at the moment sorry
[23:22] <MikeUoN> Still in a bodged dev board state :)
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> :D
[23:23] <MikeUoN> how's things going for you atm?
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> working on a ECG system for horse racing, its not going well :-/
[23:23] <MikeUoN> oh, sorry to hear that :/
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> made a silly decision to use the Ti ADS1298
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> its a nightmare
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> would have been better using discrete opamps
[23:24] <mattbrejza> whats so bad about it?
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> the synchronised ADCs are very nice
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> the digital interface timing requirements are v annoying, then the analogue side is very badly designed if you want a professional multichannel system
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Equine/blob/master/Hardware.jpg
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> crappy webcam of hardware
[23:27] <mattbrejza> wow, i didnt know you could still get cameras thats bad
[23:28] <Laurenceb_> haha its from 2002
[23:28] <mattbrejza> well enjoy :/
[23:28] <MikeUoN> looks neat
[23:28] <Laurenceb_> IP67
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> I would really like a potato-cam with ESP8266.
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> Say 3 quid BOM
[23:32] <MikeUoN> Anyone know if charging a 3V Lithium Manganese Dioxide cell is similar to Li ion, in terms of trickle charging being okay, 4V charging etc etc
[23:32] <MikeUoN> that's the wifi module, right?
[23:33] <adamgreig> uhm, lithium manganese dioxides are not rechargeable
[23:33] <mattbrejza> not with that attitude
[23:33] <MikeUoN> D:
[23:33] <MikeUoN> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/310105.pdf
[23:33] <adamgreig> huh
[23:33] <adamgreig> I guess I take it back
[23:33] <adamgreig> thought they were typically primary cells
[23:34] <MikeUoN> lol no worries
[23:34] <adamgreig> oh well
[23:35] <adamgreig> pretty sure lithium manganese dioxide are indeed not rechargeable
[23:36] <adamgreig> but lithium-ion manganese oxides are, LiMn2O4
[23:36] <MikeUoN> Li - Al?
[23:36] <MikeUoN> the datasheet is calling it all sorts of things xd
[23:37] <adamgreig> the datasheet is a bit weird but evidently it is rechargeable somehow
[23:37] <MikeUoN> http://www.maxell.com.tw/images/uploads/2015/05/ML_13e.pdf
[23:37] <MikeUoN> page 2 has some very nice examples :P
[23:37] <adamgreig> but like, charging lipos is more complicated than "trickle charging is OK, 4V"
[23:37] <MikeUoN> yeah :P
[23:38] <adamgreig> there you go, I guess just follow their datasheet for charger design
[23:38] <MikeUoN> what's the worst that can happen xD
[23:38] <mattbrejza> whats special about these cells?
[23:39] <adamgreig> coin cell form factor mostly i guess
[23:39] <MikeUoN> best trade off between capacity and weight after a 30s filter on Farnell :P
[23:39] <MikeUoN> 65mAh <3g
[23:40] <mattbrejza> k
[23:40] <MikeUoN> and in stock xD
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> adamgreig: trickle charging li-po to 4V is just fine
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> And will boost their life.
[23:42] <adamgreig> you lose a lot of capacity doing that though, and charging takes ages
[23:43] <Laurenceb_> lifetime is limited by temperature on a floater
[23:43] <Laurenceb_> and so you basically can't get much better than Leo
[23:44] <Laurenceb_> he used custom lipos, but maybe by launching earlier in the year you might exceed his flight time by a few months
[23:47] <MikeUoN> custom lipos wow
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> well from Chinese factory - not handmade
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> optimised electrode construction and electrolyte composition for low temperature
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> Well, insulated + solar heated may do better
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> And don't charge til you hit ~0C
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> Not going to work so well for polar admittedly
[23:51] <Laurenceb_> yeah Leos B64 died over Iceland
[23:52] <MikeUoN> thats so cool
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> Of course, then there is wackiness like thermal collecrtors
[23:52] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[23:52] <Laurenceb_> Leos flights were awesome
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> but UBSEDS have more than surpassed his envelopes
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> Almost all more awesome things require more data
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> but without a better battery tech thats kind of pointless, unless you do solar only
[23:53] <MikeUoN> hows the rockoon coming along?
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> Simply boosting duration isn't of itself extremely awesome
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> too busy with work :-/
[23:53] <MikeUoN> awww
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> s/work/ads1298
[23:54] <MikeUoN> :)
[23:54] <MikeUoN> *:(
[23:57] <Laurenceb_> I have ruled out a few rockoon launcher design ideas if that helps lol
[23:58] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
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