highaltitude.log.20160411

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[06:31] <SM0ULC-Reb>
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[06:52] <domojn> hellow
[06:53] <domojn> I just realised I accidentally had online mode on yesterday on fldigi. how does one remove data from the map?
[06:54] <RealBorg> try #habhub but I think it will expire harmlessly
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[06:55] <domojn> cheers
[07:08] <fab4space> hello all
[07:08] <fab4space> posted a new frequency handbook for amateur satellite http://fab4space.com/amateur-satellite-frequency-handbook/
[07:08] <fab4space> for active amateur satellites
[07:17] <SM0ULC-Reb> fab4space: nice, place it on a wiki?
[07:20] <fab4space> SM0ULC-Reb, thanks, yes it would be nice
[07:22] <SM0ULC-Reb> since the lists usually needs to be updated..
[07:24] <SM0ULC-Reb> fab4space: maybe, http://www.amateur-radio-wiki.net/
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[07:25] <fab4space> yes my list will be updated regurlary it is a dynmaic table
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[08:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LCARS_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LCARS_chase
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[08:38] <pb0ahx> !flights
[08:38] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03Waddesdon School HAB 10(9ccb)
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[09:08] <domojn> Anyone know if Waddesdon has taken off yet?
[09:10] <craag> !payload 9ccb
[09:10] <SpacenearUS> 03craag: Payload 03VALKYRIE 10(9ccb) 03$$VALKYRIE - 03434.5 MHz USB 03RTTY 50/480Hz ASCII-7 none 2
[09:10] <SpacenearUS> 03craag: Payload 03HERMES 10(9ccb) 03$$HERMES - 03LMT2 - 03434.3 MHz USB 03RTTY 50/500Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[09:11] <craag> !flight 9ccb
[09:11] <SpacenearUS> 03craag: Flight 10(9ccb): 03Waddesdon School HAB 10(2 payloads) - Launch date 03Today at 10:00 from 03Buckinghamshire, UK 10(51.84262,-0.92003)
[09:11] <craag> !ping VALKYRIE
[09:11] <SpacenearUS> 03craag: No contact from 03VALKYRIE
[09:11] <craag> I guess not ;)
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[09:21] <daveake> Dunno what their flight parameters are, but a 30km/5/5 now is heading for Brum
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[09:30] <domojn> nothing so far
[09:31] <domojn> bands are dead
[09:31] <domojn> as usual
[09:31] <domojn> lol
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[09:37] <domojn> Nothing ontwitter either
[09:38] <domojn> you'd think they'd have published something in the paper
[09:40] <mfa298> media coverage tends to be after the event rather than before.
[09:41] <domojn> yeah true
[09:41] <mfa298> although if the weather is anything like the weather further south I wonder if they're delaying / cancelling.
[09:41] <domojn> If they do go ahead, I hope the wind goes in the opposite direction
[09:41] <domojn> Might be able to see it with my own eyes :)
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[09:56] <Hermes> hi guys we are aiming for a midday launch
[09:56] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Sounds good
[09:57] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Very close to Birmingham however
[09:57] <Hermes> expected land is just outside Warwick
[09:58] <Geoff-G8DHE_> What climb rate and burst height are you planning ?
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[09:59] <Hermes> 5 m/s and around 30km
[09:59] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah right what I have on the prediction then
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[09:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03epopkw_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=epopkw_chase
[10:03] <daveake> 30/5/5 at midday is bang on the M42 south-east of Brum, and a few miles soiuth of the airport - http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=3022962d1de458d476633cf3656e4de25e4966ab
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[10:03] <daveake> I suggest you rethink
[10:05] <FuzzyLemon_> valkyrie ascent rate 5.58m/s 30km burst
[10:05] <domojn> Any news on Waddesdon?
[10:05] <FuzzyLemon_> we are setting up for filling now
[10:05] <domojn> :)
[10:05] <FuzzyLemon_> launch time 12ich
[10:07] <domojn> What was the delay?
[10:09] <Hermes> this is our prediction - http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=0bed572ad50ad97881afb64e83e6041b5d767b70
[10:10] <Hermes> we will overfill the balloon a little so it early bursts and doesnt reach Birmingham
[10:10] <daveake> The prediction uses UTC not BST
[10:11] <daveake> I'd overfill to be safer
[10:12] <daveake> Predictions change a fair bit during the day, and the forecasts don't always get that right - sometimes the changes happen earlier or later. In other words, don't put too much reliance on them being accurate
[10:12] <edmoore> domojn: there are a million things that can make launch times very approximate
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[10:13] <mfa298> !wiki ish time
[10:13] <SpacenearUS> 03mfa298: No results for your query
[10:13] <daveake> !wiki glossary
[10:13] <SpacenearUS> 03daveake: Wiki page 03glossary (general) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/general:glossary
[10:13] <SpacenearUS> 03daveake: Wiki page 03ish (general:glossary) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/general:glossary:ish
[10:13] <edmoore> domojn: the cloud layer is so low in waddesdon right now that i suspect you'd have to be right at the launch site to see it
[10:14] <domojn> yep
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[10:17] <domojn> that ISH defintion is hilarious
[10:18] <mfa298> and I think all of those have happened.
[10:18] <domojn> I'd say so
[10:19] <domojn> They seem very specific
[10:19] <domojn> ROFL
[10:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HERMES - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HERMES
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[10:23] <Hermes> We're getting ready to fill the balloon now
[10:23] <edmoore> good luck
[10:23] <Hermes> thank you
[10:24] <domojn> Are they hamster oxygen tanks?
[10:24] <domojn> *cylinders
[10:24] <domojn> yay, it's on the map :)
[10:25] <daveake> That's probably a reference to the little H2 tanks
[10:25] <edmoore> that's never happened to me thankfully
[10:25] <edmoore> in my day-job we do however lament the flow rate out of cylinders
[10:26] <Hermes> We're using Hydrogen
[10:27] <domojn> yeah, sorry, submitted that before readin it
[10:27] <domojn> have yo eaten you HAB's?
[10:28] <domojn> (bacon)
[10:28] <Hermes> ?
[10:28] <edmoore> it's a glossary term
[10:29] <edmoore> don't wory about it for now, concentrate on filling
[10:29] <domojn> daveake, hamster oxygen tanks
[10:29] <domojn> lol
[10:29] <Hermes> Filling the balloon now
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[10:30] <edmoore> so the valves we made for supplying hydrogen at work could fill a big balloon in about 0.3s to about 1% accuracy, if you ever need to launch in a hurry
[10:30] <RealBorg> Hermes, good luck
[10:30] <edmoore> i am inclined to try this at some point, though it might be a bit too violent for the balloon
[10:31] <domojn> lol
[10:31] <domojn> noob question, but what are they usually made from?
[10:31] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Latex
[10:32] <domojn> I've not seen one in question. my interest here is mainly radio
[10:32] <domojn> Are they like party baloons or 100 times thicker
[10:32] <craag> 100 times larger
[10:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VALKYRIE - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VALKYRIE
[10:33] <Geoff-G8DHE_> party balloons are polyester layered
[10:33] <craag> uninflated they'll lay out about a metre long
[10:33] <craag> (the big ones)
[10:34] <domojn> big ones, I would have thought that would have been a small one
[10:35] <daveake> uninflated
[10:35] <domojn> oh ok
[10:35] <domojn> blonde moment
[10:35] <Geoff-G8DHE_> and remember they expand as the pressure outside decreases!
[10:35] <daveake> Burst diameter is 6-12m depending on make/mass
[10:35] <domojn> yep
[10:37] <domojn> How come some of the german HAB's have calls?
[10:37] <domojn> I would have thought they'd not require them considering its lpd433
[10:37] <Geoff-G8DHE_> In the UK amateur radio is not allowed areonautical mobile
[10:37] <daveake> Some countries allow airborne ham transmissions
[10:38] <domojn> I thought that was a worldwide ban
[10:38] <Geoff-G8DHE_> no just UK
[10:38] <domojn> odd
[10:38] <daveake> some others ... there's a partial list in the wiki
[10:38] <russss> well, UK and a few other countries. But it seems like most countries allow airborne
[10:39] <daveake> Obviously it would cause issues here that other countries don't experience :/
[10:39] <domojn> what?
[10:39] <fsphil> good question
[10:39] <daveake> It wouldn't. I'm being facetious
[10:40] <Hermes> balloon is now full
[10:40] <RealBorg> I think uk is the only country where receiving ads-b is illegal
[10:40] <thip> is it? oops...
[10:41] <domojn> is that 1090meg?
[10:42] <RealBorg> yes
[10:42] <pb0ahx> !flights
[10:42] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03Waddesdon School HAB 10(9ccb)
[10:42] <daveake> RealBorg: Really?
[10:42] <craag> RealBorg: Got a reference for that?
[10:42] <daveake> The B stands for Broadcast; I dont' see how it can be illegal
[10:43] <russss> there's a catch-all "it's illegal to receive anything you're not licensed for" law
[10:43] <RealBorg> i'm looking, I remember reading someone got arrested (being in public at the airport)
[10:43] <domojn> yep
[10:43] <russss> it's somewhere in the Wireless Telegraphy Acts
[10:43] <domojn> but its also illegal not to make a report if you pick up anything illegal
[10:44] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Its not actually dfined http://forum.flightradar24.com/threads/3956-ADS-B-Question?p=19787&viewfull=1#post19787 OFCOM define some that are
[10:44] <domojn> it beleive its from the 1949 act
[10:44] <russss> that all got consolidated into the 2006 act. There's this http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/36/section/48
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[10:46] <domojn> very vague
[10:47] <daveake> I await Ofcom loading up flightradar etc to locate all the ads-b feed in the UK
[10:47] <russss> yeah and they don't really define "broadcast" either
[10:47] <russss> ofcom has like 5 people in their enforcement department and they only really care about transmission
[10:47] <russss> heh.
[10:48] <russss> ADS-B cannot be "broadcast" because broadcasting from the sea or air is illegal under part 5.
[10:48] <domojn> even then, I wonder how many hours a year they put into amateur radio
[10:48] <mfa298> I think broadcast was aimed to refer to the likes of commercial radio.
[10:48] <russss> yeah
[10:49] <craag> Under that could you not argue that you can't listen to amateur radio transmissions without a license?
[10:49] <mfa298> although for the most part I doubt ofcom really care if you're listening to airband/ads-b/marine band
[10:49] <russss> craag: that is specifically excepted, somewhere
[10:49] <craag> ah ok
[10:49] <domojn> I was told when I did my foundation, that "broadcast" means an TX, but that ofcom or the RA or whoever prefer to only use that to refer to commercial stations
[10:49] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Its not the listening its the divulging of information
[10:49] <domojn> also, apparently cqing is technically a broadcast
[10:50] <russss> Geoff-G8DHE_: nope it's both, as per http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/36/section/48
[10:50] <craag> CQing is multicast ;)
[10:50] <mfa298> I think amateur and CB were allowed as general reception
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[10:50] <russss> I don't know where the "general reception" thing has gone in the 2006 act
[10:51] <Geoff-G8DHE_> That doesn't say anything about listening/receiving its about obtaining information
[10:51] <pb0ahx> Waddesdon School GL with the HAB today i go trying follow him
[10:51] <domojn> well you know what I mean
[10:51] <mfa298> I suspect the blanket ban on receiving was designed to cover the likes of emergency services/military
[10:51] <russss> ok, so you can listen to anything as long as you don't have the intent to "obtain information as to the contents, sender or addressee of a message"
[10:52] <domojn> certainly makes you wonder what a legit reason to decode pagers is
[10:53] <domojn> Only one I can think of is the rare bird spotters directory
[10:53] <russss> actually ofcom's guidance is pretty clear. http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/enforcement/spectrum-enforcement/guidance
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[10:54] <Geoff-G8DHE_> doesn't ADS-B come under navgation ?
[10:54] <mfa298> weather and navigation transmissions
[10:54] <russss> possibly.
[10:54] <mfa298> would seem to allow ads-b
[10:54] <mfa298> (damned \r\n in copy&paste)
[10:55] <Geoff-G8DHE_> but so boring I'll let them take me to court first I think
[10:55] <domojn> I guess upon reading that, I must be a criminal
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[10:57] <domojn> Doesn't every pager recieve the same signals though. very confusing
[10:57] <RealBorg> lawmakers live in a world unaffected by reality
[10:58] <domojn> i suppose it can be argued that they're not addressed to you
[10:58] <daey> what pagers are you talking about?
[10:58] <russss> yeah it's not the receiving it's the "intent to read them"
[10:58] <domojn> yeah
[10:58] <mfa298> "These offences mean that it is illegal to listen to telephone calls, including mobile phone networks" - does that mean if someone is talking loudly on their phone they're causing anyone else near by to break the law ?
[10:58] <daey> russss: but to know that its not for me i have to read it :p (from a pagers point of view)
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[10:59] <domojn> illegal to listen to mbile phone networks? I wonder if that means that tracking and logging them is legal
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[11:00] <domojn> I know some supermarkets and shopping centres do this
[11:00] Action: RealBorg shouldn't exist due to the Bundesverfassungsgesetz für ein atomfreies Österreich
[11:00] <craag> They do it by wifi or bluetooth, not gsm.
[11:00] <mfa298> I think they're just looking at some of the metadata from the signal so they can track a specific device but don't know anything abotu it
[11:01] <russss> lol
[11:01] <RealBorg> maybe I am made of energy or exotic particles
[11:01] <russss> "Question: Isn't this all a bit heavy?"
[11:01] <russss> I didn't see that
[11:01] <domojn> lol
[11:01] <domojn> heavy metal
[11:01] <mfa298> there is at least one company doign it by gsm - I talked to them a few years back, they reckoned they were one of the biggest uses of USRPs in the UK
[11:02] Action: domojn airguitars
[11:03] <craag> mfa298: From what I've seen it's all wifi/bt now, as the price point is an order of magnitude lower!
[11:03] <domojn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti8_NozsT_I
[11:03] <mfa298> craag: that was a few years ago so they might have moved to bt/wifi, or they might have moved to rtlsdrs
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[11:04] <domojn> Ian DEF CON 23 - Ian Kline - LTE Recon and Tracking with RTLSDR
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[11:07] <craag> You've still got to decode the transmissions to get the temporary session keys to track an object by
[11:08] <domojn> The wifi thing is interesting though
[11:09] <domojn> there's a project somewhere where they're using drones to track people using their wifi
[11:09] <craag> As part of my job I've built wifi tracking systems.
[11:10] <domojn> smartphones thrown out all the network names they've been on in an attempt to find a match, and as a result, one can find ut where somoene may have been, and even where they may live
[11:10] <domojn> sweet
[11:11] <craag> Nothing trying to invade privacy like that, just tracking throughput in shops, common routes through event sites and such.
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[11:13] <domojn> cool
[11:13] <domojn> You can very easily take over smartphones useing that method though
[11:14] <craag> 'take over'?
[11:14] <craag> no
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[11:15] <domojn> make a rouge AP called "_Cloud" in a town/ city and you'll end up with people knowingly (and unknowingly) connecting
[11:15] <arjunnaha> WiFi Pineapple
[11:15] <craag> ok, so they're connected, now what.
[11:15] <domojn> have them acvcept some terms
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[11:15] <domojn> maybe install and app
[11:16] <craag> so you're getting them to install a malicious app, nothing really to do with the wifi
[11:16] <domojn> it kind a does
[11:16] <domojn> most users think that wifi is secure
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[11:17] <AndyEsser> any IPTABLES gurus here who I can ask for help? (unrelated to HAB)
[11:17] <mfa298> AndyEsser: potentially, depends on what you're trying to do
[11:18] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03Legionowo after 0310 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Legionowo
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[11:20] <domojn> even not having them install an app, you can attempt to connect via the network. if they are connected without knowing, they'll likely be unaware
[11:21] <VALKYRIE_> we are launching in about 5 minutes
[11:21] <craag> All phones I've come across so far don't just have a telnet port sitting open...
[11:22] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
[11:22] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SQ5NWI-14 after 0310 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ5NWI-14
[11:22] <craag> being on the same IP network doesn't automatically allow you to crack into them.
[11:23] <domojn> telnet, lol
[11:23] <fsphil> my own phone has no open ports on the wifi side
[11:23] <daey> hes right. at that point you need a vulnerability
[11:24] <fsphil> you might be able to get in through the usb port, with a dodgey charger port perhaps
[11:24] <craag> the one thing you could do as you have control of the router is MITM any unauthenticated traffic
[11:24] <daey> fsphil: who has the dev mode active?
[11:24] <fsphil> I do :)
[11:25] <daey> tiny fraction of people even know how to activate it
[11:25] <craag> but all critical/sensitive traffic is usually SSL/TLS these days.
[11:27] <domojn> exactly, a vuln
[11:27] <fsphil> why are we attacking phones? :)
[11:27] <domojn> wifi vulnrability
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[11:28] <domojn> VALKYRIE_: awesome
[11:28] Hermes (d5cdc62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.205.198.47) joined #highaltitude.
[11:28] <Hermes> We're now ready to launch
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[11:29] <domojn> do we have a count down?
[11:29] <Geoff-G8DHE_> no a count up
[11:30] <fsphil> good luck Hermes
[11:30] <domojn> lol
[11:30] <domojn> BLAST OFF!
[11:30] <daey> launch of the valkyries
[11:30] <daveake> This might get delivered anywhere
[11:30] <fsphil> lol
[11:30] <fsphil> was just thinking that
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[11:31] <Hermes> It has launched
[11:31] <domojn> dum de de dum dum, dum de de dee dee, dum dum di di dee dum dum di deeeeee
[11:31] <daey> what does it do? photo/video mission?
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[11:33] <pb0ahx> Hermes gl i follow him
[11:33] <daveake> Hermes no longer updating?
[11:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SARC1 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SARC1
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[11:34] <daveake> Updating again now
[11:34] <daveake> Not by launcher
[11:35] <mfa298> so what was being said above is that the free charging stations appearing in shopping centers are potentially more of a risk than being tracked by wifi/bluetooth ?
[11:37] <craag> For your phone being compromised, yes very much so.
[11:37] <craag> wifi/bluetooth shouldn't ever have a mode that allows control of the phone without an enabling app.
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[11:37] <craag> by control I mean access to private info and such
[11:38] <craag> whereas I too have dev mode enabled on the usb port ;)
[11:38] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Odd updating behaviour on the map, the time ago isn't resetting to 0
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[11:39] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE_: Someone might be uploading slowly, so there's a large delay before the map gets the data.
[11:39] <Geoff-G8DHE_> I thought the time was that at the server rather than at Rx ?
[11:39] <fsphil> I have a USB cable with no data lines, just GND and 5V
[11:40] <fsphil> mini usb, doesn't work with my current phone
[11:40] <craag> Could be.
[11:40] <fsphil> but it would protect from that
[11:41] <craag> fsphil: A lot of these charging stations just have a micro-usb on a tail coming out of a gland.
[11:41] <craag> So you'd need a micro-socket -> micro-plug adaptor
[11:41] <fsphil> ooh I've not seen that
[11:43] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Hermes is 7bit not 8bit as in the auto config ...
[11:43] <fsphil> that must annoy apple users
[11:44] <craag> they have apple ends too ;)
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[11:54] <cm13g09> craag: what, somebody using \r?
[11:54] <craag> ?
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[11:54] <cm13g09> Apple Line Endings?
[11:54] <pb0ahx> $$$HERMES,539,11:53:59,51.944538,-1.105611,8172,7,2,2806,00*5F89 the first gree
[11:54] <craag> lol
[11:54] <pb0ahx> n
[11:55] <cm13g09> Anyone who uses Apple line endings with me, will have their OS reinstalled with something that uses "real" newlines....
[11:55] <PE2G> pb0ahx: Nice, well below the horizon
[11:56] <pb0ahx> yes i know but it is writing
[11:56] <cm13g09> craag: I used to have a developer who worked on a project with me
[11:56] <pb0ahx> distance 375.7 km
[11:56] <cm13g09> insisted on using Mac line endings....
[11:56] G4YHE (56171653@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.23.22.83) joined #highaltitude.
[11:56] <russss> wtf
[11:56] <russss> "Apple" line endings died out with OS 9
[11:57] <cm13g09> (He was a Mac user....)
[11:57] <cm13g09> russss: this was a few years back now
[11:57] <cm13g09> I used to have a script that every 5 mins polled the repo and pulled all changes, then converted all \r line endings to \r\n and recommitted it to the repo :P
[11:58] <daveake> Nice to see that warnings were heeded on these flights :/
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[12:00] <PE2G> Does someone know how fast the blue radio horizion circle is moving horizontally, given an x rate of climb?
[12:01] <PE2G> *horizon
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[12:05] <pb0ahx> u dont writing pe2g ??
[12:06] <PE2G> Too far away yet
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[12:07] <pb0ahx> he is strong here now abt s7
[12:07] <pb0ahx> but lot of qrm on that qrg here
[12:07] <PE2G> Rather: too low yet
[12:07] <pb0ahx> ok
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[12:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RIDEOFTHEVALKERIES_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RIDEOFTHEVALKERIES_chase
[12:09] <PE2G> pb0ahx: .300 is noisy here, .500 clean
[12:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
[12:09] <pb0ahx> ok
[12:10] <pb0ahx> u writing VALKyrie and i am writing HERMES hihihi fun
[12:11] <domojn> I've got valkyrie
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[12:12] <pb0ahx> distance 385.6 km now
[12:13] <jakeio> Hello, I've still got the baudrate problem. Out of 10 transmissions 4 come through at the right baudrate with this code: http://pastebin.com/AuzTzaXT I've spent hours now trying to work it out, rewriting it, etc. Nothing. Can anyone else see the problem?
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[12:14] <pb0ahx> hermes is 50 bd 470 shift here and 7n2 now here
[12:15] <domojn> does autoconfiguire not fix it?
[12:16] <pb0ahx> no not here
[12:17] <mfa298> 11:43 < Geoff-G8DHE_> Hermes is 7bit not 8bit as in the auto config ...
[12:18] <domojn> how come only some stations have lines
[12:19] <mfa298> the green lines go to stations that received that packet
[12:19] <domojn> ooooh, ok, that makes sense
[12:20] <thip> Is everyone who is receiving actively looking for this flight or do any tune in automatically?
[12:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I'm having lunch, frequency and aerials are automated
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[12:25] <domojn> I recentlly got my sdr working without any hitches so thought I'd try out some modes
[12:26] <domojn> In come here every few months to see if anythings been launched near me. last week I got lucvky :)
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[12:27] <domojn> what freq are people receiving VALKYRIE on?
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[12:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> !dial valkyrie
[12:28] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE-M: Latest dials for 03VALKYRIE 10(9ccb): 03434.5021 MHz, 434.50206 MHz, 434.50178 MHz, 434.5012 MHz, 434.5 MHz
[12:28] FuzzyLemon (d5cdc6bf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.205.198.191) joined #highaltitude.
[12:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> !dial hermes
[12:28] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE-M: Latest dials for 03HERMES 10(9ccb): 03434.3006 MHz, 434.300521 MHz, 434.30074 MHz
[12:28] <domojn> my sdr must be way off
[12:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> If you haven't calibrated it then very likely
[12:29] <domojn> 434.464 is what I've got
[12:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> you need to set the PPM setting
[12:29] <domojn> ran kalibrate and it said 9ppm
[12:29] <domojn> bit messed up
[12:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> which SDR software Rx are you using
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[12:32] <domojn> sdr#
[12:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> well just tweak it in there then
[12:34] <domojn> yep
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[12:41] <domojn> !dial valkyrie
[12:41] <SpacenearUS> 03domojn: Latest dials for 03VALKYRIE 10(9ccb): 03434.501959 MHz, 434.5021 MHz, 434.50206 MHz, 434.50178 MHz, 434.5012 MHz, 434.50197 MHz
[12:41] <jakeio> Out of interest, why do we use 2 stopbits rather than 1 or 1.5?
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[12:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> habit probably! slightly more likely to be spotted in noise is about all
[12:43] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> On Rx I always set ity for one anyway, anything longer doesn't affect it then
[12:45] <domojn> fixed
[12:45] <domojn> manually adjusted it
[12:45] <domojn> why are there 6 freqs that show above?
[12:46] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Because everyone that reports will have a slightly different offset
[12:46] <domojn> ah ok
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[12:47] <domojn> I assume they're selected as they're the closest
[12:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Not sure any processing is done, just report those that send the frequency in, you sometimes see nonsense values like 10MHz
[12:48] <domojn> lol
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[12:50] <domojn> IS it possible to pass the the data from fldigi into a JSON file?
[12:50] <domojn> whilst it is being decoded, that is.
[12:50] <mfa298> theres an xmlrpc interface you can enable in dl-fldigi
[12:51] <mfa298> I'm not sure if that will log everything or if you'de need to query it, otherwise setup a log file and watch that
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[12:53] <domojn> how would you do that?
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[12:55] <domojn> log file, that is
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[12:56] <domojn> sort of figuired out the contents of the packets, and I think it'd be fun to play with the data
[12:57] <Geoff-G8DHE_> There is a text logfile as standard
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[12:58] <Geoff-G8DHE_> probably better to use habitat for that as then you get all the data in JSON already http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[12:58] <dbrooke> you can connect to tcp port 7322 to get the text
[12:59] <Geoff-G8DHE_> rather than just what you hear
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[13:03] <domojn> !dial valkyrie
[13:03] <SpacenearUS> 03domojn: Latest dials for 03VALKYRIE 10(9ccb): 03434.5021 MHz, 434.50178 MHz, 434.5012 MHz, 434.50197 MHz, 434.501973 MHz, 434.50206 MHz
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[13:06] <domojn> meh
[13:06] <domojn> I'll just use historical data
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[13:08] <domojn> HAve they burst?
[13:09] <thip> yes
[13:11] <adamgreig> d
[13:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MGSP_ONE_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MGSP_ONE_chase
[13:12] <adamgreig> -d
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[13:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03C3PO_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=C3PO_chase
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[13:20] <jakeio> Oh God, I'm so confused. Now it appears (note, it might not!) to work perfectly on 75 baud rather than 50. !?!??!?!?!
[13:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HERMES_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HERMES_chase
[13:22] <Geoff-G8DHE_> jakeio, I somehow doubt that ;-)
[13:22] <domojn> did valktrie die?
[13:23] <Geoff-G8DHE_> no still transmitting here
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[13:23] <domojn> !dial hermes
[13:23] <SpacenearUS> 03domojn: Latest dials for 03HERMES 10(9ccb): 03434.3006 MHz, 434.300521 MHz, 434.30074 MHz
[13:23] <Geoff-G8DHE_> its weaker than Hermes however so it may just not be being received well
[13:24] <domojn> complete gone from here
[13:24] <Geoff-G8DHE_> yup its going out of range for me behind the local hills
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[13:26] <domojn> very faint signal
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[13:27] <pb0ahx> Waddesdon School mni tnx for nice time writing here 73
[13:27] <pb0ahx> now i lost HERMES
[13:30] <domojn> that was good fun
[13:30] <domojn> whilst it lasted
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[13:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03slitz_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=slitz_chase
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[13:39] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Interesting that the two payloads seem to have different paths now, are they on seperate chutes I wonder ?
[13:40] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE_: They were seperate balloons, simultaneously launched I believe.
[13:40] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah right! Did wonder about that at the beginning!
[13:41] <thip> that got me too right up until burst :p
[13:41] <Hermes> Yes both were launched from Waddesdon at the same time
[13:41] <Geoff-G8DHE_> the two GPS's never seemed to tally!
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[13:42] <Hermes> they are different weights however, Valkeryie lighter
[13:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 0312345_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=12345_chase
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[13:51] <Hermes> we have got the payload :)
[13:51] <thip> :)
[13:52] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Landing spot for VALKYrie looks ok http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2016_Flights/VALKYRIE_20160411/VALKYRIE_201604111350.jpg
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[13:52] <PH3V> Great!
[13:53] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yup looks nice easy retirval http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2016_Flights/VALKYRIE_20160411/HERMES_201604111350.jpg
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[13:55] <Ian_> Congrats HERMES heard it to 400m (alas no dl-fldigi)
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[13:56] <Ian_> Is VALKRIE recovered yet?
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[14:00] <pb0ahx> Hermes great job
[14:03] <thip> Hermes has a lovely temperature graph
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[14:37] <FuzzyLemon> Hermes and Valkyrie found!
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[14:40] <FuzzyLemon> Thanks for everyone's help tracking!
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[14:52] <domojn> :)
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[14:52] <domojn> if they land on priavte land, how do you get them back?
[14:53] <mfa298> ask the land owner and persaude them to let you get it back
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[14:54] <mfa298> bottles of wine have been used as part of the persauation in the past
[14:56] <mfa298> although probably more accuratly, used as a thank you for giving access
[14:57] <domojn> lol]
[14:57] <domojn> YOu're a funny lot
[14:57] <AndyEsser> mfa298: threaten to found the Environment Agency and report them for littering on their land ;)
[14:57] <AndyEsser> batteries are mostly toxic
[14:57] <AndyEsser> s/found/phone
[14:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ANU - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ANU
[14:58] <domojn> what if they're not around
[14:59] <edmoore> surgical strike
[14:59] <edmoore> in-out
[14:59] <AndyEsser> if they're not around to witness you commit a crime, did the crime really happen?
[14:59] <edmoore> leave no trace
[14:59] <adamgreig> trespass is only a civil offence, right?
[14:59] <domojn> Schrodingers balloon
[14:59] <domojn> unlessa aggregated, I beleive
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[15:02] <domojn> not legally trained, but I beleive it's civil so long as you don't steal, damage or kill anything.
[15:02] <domojn> Just a little worried about angry farmers with shotguns
[15:03] <edmoore> it's usually fine
[15:03] <edmoore> have yet to have a problem
[15:03] <domojn> best not bring any canids with you
[15:03] <edmoore> extreme englishness works
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[15:04] <FuzzyLemon> We met a brummie farmer today who was very reasonable
[15:04] <mfa298> realistically if you're aiming for somewhere not populated (as you should be) there's a reasonable chance of landing somewhere close to where there's public access anyway. So you can probably determine exactly where the payload is and decide how to recover at that point
[15:04] <domojn> *Canidæ
[15:05] <FuzzyLemon> Definitely bring wellies
[15:05] <edmoore> black lab and small child helps
[15:05] <edmoore> but those are both quite expensive accessories if procured just for chasing
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[15:05] <domojn> best hope there's no sheep
[15:06] <domojn> best leach up lassie
[15:06] <number10> or race horses
[15:06] <RealBorg> https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data <- why is there a sudden jump from 250g to 1050g payload?
[15:07] <edmoore> RealBorg: that's just copied from manufacturer data
[15:07] <edmoore> maybe because there's a standard 250g sonde and a 1050g sonde
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[15:08] Nick change: SpeedEvil -> Guest3228
[15:08] <RealBorg> thx, is there more data on the Hwoyee balloons?
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[15:08] <domojn> noob question, can anyone launch a HAB?
[15:08] <edmoore> yes
[15:08] <edmoore> RealBorg: don't know
[15:08] <domojn> do you need to notify civil aviation?
[15:08] <edmoore> yes
[15:09] <AndyEsser> https://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[15:09] <edmoore> more than that, you have to receive something from them before you can launch
[15:09] <edmoore> and yes there is a lot of worth-while beginners guide material
[15:09] <edmoore> worth spending an hour with a coffee on the wiki
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[15:09] <edmoore> which has lots of info, chaotically organized
[15:10] <RealBorg> in some contries you don't need permission to launch a small balloon
[15:10] <RealBorg> small being 2kg in switzerland and 6lb in US
[15:11] <domojn> how do you contact ATC?
[15:11] <AndyEsser> Smoke signals
[15:11] <AndyEsser> sorry
[15:11] <domojn> Do they have a direct number
[15:11] <jonsowman> https://ukhas.org.uk/general:restrictions_legality
[15:11] <jonsowman> please read this
[15:12] <edmoore> domojn: the notam/exemption will tell you if you need to contact someone
[15:12] <domojn> ah ok
[15:12] <domojn> I assume they'd send you info
[15:13] <edmoore> they will
[15:13] <edmoore> if you're close to a field they'll ask you to contact the field usually
[15:13] <edmoore> if you're not then you'll just be allowed to launch in the slot allocated by the notam
[15:14] <Ian_> Airfield not farmers field of course
[15:14] <domojn> I was gonna say, lol
[15:14] <Ian_> edmoore in aviation and not agricultural mode - naturally
[15:15] <domojn> that's where the wellies, black lab and small child comes in
[15:15] <edmoore> my welding has been described as agricultural
[15:16] <RealBorg> I would always advice the nearest airfield / ATC even if not legally required
[15:16] <edmoore> i wouldn't
[15:16] <edmoore> that will just confuse them
[15:16] <domojn> What if the closest airfield is unmanned?
[15:17] <edmoore> i've told you the answer to your question
[15:17] <edmoore> the notam will tell you
[15:17] <edmoore> the matter is settled
[15:17] <domojn> ...]
[15:17] <Ian_> You should also ask the land owner's permission to launch from a field say . . . bit open ended as the field may be rented to grow a crop etc . . .
[15:17] <edmoore> ignore random advice from random people in other countries who haven't launched anything
[15:19] <domojn> how do I fin d the freqs of habs not listed
[15:19] <edmoore> ?
[15:20] <domojn> on the tracker atm there is ANU
[15:20] <domojn> has no freq
[15:21] <edmoore> it's not flying
[15:21] <edmoore> just testing
[15:21] <edmoore> things appear on the map when you're just testing too
[15:21] <domojn> i guess they do losts of testing like that then
[15:22] <edmoore> yep
[15:22] <domojn> I've found numerous like that in the past
[15:23] <number10> I was just testing ANU domojn - didnt mean to have it online - especially on a flight day
[15:23] <mfa298> testing is good, it reduces the chance of flying bad code
[15:23] <domojn> Is every launch in the calender
[15:23] Nick change: BitEvil -> SpeedEvil
[15:23] <number10> it is.. but always good to do on a day when there is not a real launch
[15:23] <number10> test that is
[15:24] <craag> number10: you can filter the map easily enough now, so it's not a problem.
[15:24] <mfa298> that was a fairly generic comment, not aimed at you number10 (I think we were typing at the same time)
[15:24] <craag> Also it doesn't crash with more than a few flights on it at once...
[15:24] <number10> thats good news craag
[15:25] <mfa298> domojn: things will appear on the calendar once they have a flight doc approved, there's also the mailing list where stuff is usually announced
[15:25] <number10> probably old news (I have not been paying attention)
[15:26] <domojn> cheers
[15:26] <domojn> shame I don't live in mainland europe :(
[15:26] <number10> craag: I like the filter activated by search feature
[15:27] <craag> Yeah it's good. Along with the url updating so it'll take anyone to exactly the view you're looking at.
[15:27] <craag> lz1dev is the man to thank for it all.
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[15:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VEGA2 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VEGA2
[15:38] <Ian_> domojn I had to Google canid/canidæ, not terms that are commonly used. We don't tend to stroll around with foxes and wolves as a rule! :)
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[15:55] <domojn> Ian_: well, lassie is a canidæ
[15:55] <domojn> So are pandas, I think
[15:55] <domojn> i dunno, you might want to take along you pet beat
[15:55] <domojn> *bear
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[16:17] <Ian_> Paddington and a bottle of wine!
[16:18] Nick change: lz1dev_ -> lz1dev
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[16:46] <FuzzyLemon> hi all thanks for all the help with tracking today. We had some wifi issues so couldnt upload much in the car
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[16:47] <Ian_> Not quite as much excitement as the Lakenheath excursion, but well worth watching. Thanks for the signals.
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[16:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SKIPI - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SKIPI
[16:51] <jakeio> daveake, what did you mean yesterday when you said it might not be flushing?
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[17:07] <Ian_> I think that you might have been flushing the port/buffer, but was the code working properly or silently failing?
[17:08] <Ian_> I believe that was probably what was meant, but I am not about to put words into the mouth of another.
[17:09] <Ian_> I do believe that daveake ate a hearty lunch though :)
[17:13] <pb0ahx> !flights
[17:13] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03Waddesdon School HAB 10(9ccb)
[17:17] <daveake> Catching up with sleep :)
[17:17] <daveake> Flushing ... you need to be sure that all your data gets sent out of the serial port before you continue and change the baud rate.
[17:18] <daveake> If you print to the terminal before and after writing to the port, you'll soon see from the timing.
[17:18] <Ian_> What's this pb0ahx, HAB withdrawl symptoms so early? :) Both recovered OK as reported by FuzzyLemon
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[17:19] <daveake> I believe that the Python serial module write function is blocking - i.e. it doesn't return till the data has gone - but a) I might be wrong, and b) it might not be working
[17:19] <daveake> If it is blocking then you don't need to add flush()
[17:20] <daveake> I'm assuming that you're missing sentences because they go out at 9600 baud instead of 50, but I don't know if you've confirmed that or not. I don't recall a full description of what is going wrong so it may be nothing to do with blocking/flushing anyway.
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[17:25] <jakeio> daveake, thanks again by the way, you seem to have the same idea as me. Occasionally, messages just shoot out at 9600 when I've explicitly told the port to open at 50 (now 75) baud.
[17:26] <jakeio> Are you suggesting that I remove the flush() methods?
[17:26] <daveake> You know for sure that they're leaving the serial port at 9600 ?
[17:26] <jakeio> No, I shall test for that.
[17:27] <daveake> So what do you know for sure ?
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[17:29] <jakeio> That occasionally, my program shows that it has sent a transmission however, this happens instantaneously rather than taking a few seconds (as it does normally) this is characterised on the receiver by a sudden, sharp bleep in the signal.
[17:30] <jakeio> I've removed all the flushes and it still does it. Very odd.
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[17:32] <daveake> Like I said, I don't think the flushes do anything
[17:33] <jakeio> It appears so...
[17:34] <daveake> https://pythonhosted.org/pyserial/pyserial_api.html?highlight=blocking
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[17:35] <jakeio> OK, so it's blocking by default.
[17:39] <jakeio> It's very odd because it only happens very occasionally. Sometimes it's isolated, then sometimes it happens 3-4 times in a row.
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[17:41] <jakeio> At the moment, it's working most of the time. So I shall try and get other things done and fix this later. Perhaps if I write it in C instead (and hence don't use pyserial) I might lose this issue.
[17:43] <mfa298> and then find a whole lot of new issues
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[17:45] <daveake> First thing would be to timestamp your print statements, print before and after the write(), then do a flush() and print again, then close the port and print again. See where it normally waits and where it then doesn't
[17:46] <daveake> You could then change the open() to be non-blocking, see where the delay moves to, and see if that helps or fixes the issue
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[18:00] <jakeio> daveake, thanks. I'll get to work!
[18:02] <Lunar_Lander> got a new sensor today
[18:02] <edmoore> gonna tell us what it is?
[18:02] <Lunar_Lander> yes, a MCP9808 I2C thermometer
[18:02] <Lunar_Lander> want to fly it on the next flight in our sensor intercomparison
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[18:10] <david2323> Just a quick question: for PITS flight, do you leave the Pi camera's lens exposed to the elements? (i.e., poking through a hole?)
[18:10] <david2323> ls
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[18:16] <daveake> yes. It can even go outside.
[18:16] <mfa298> they've even been mounted on the outside of the payload
[18:17] <edmoore> Lunar_Lander: that's a really good idea
[18:17] <edmoore> do you have a master temp sensor?
[18:17] <edmoore> like a pricier lab-grade thing that should do air-temp well so you can compare the others
[18:19] <Lunar_Lander> I thought a bit about it, but no master yet
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[18:19] <Lunar_Lander> I thought about defining DS18B20 as master, but in itself it is not that perfect at low temperature
[18:19] <edmoore> no
[18:20] <edmoore> i'd look at something a bit more proper
[18:20] <edmoore> a pt100 in a sunshield or something
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> just wanted to say Pt1000
[18:20] <kc2pit> Vishay is making platinum RTDs in 0603/0805/1206.
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good
[18:20] <kc2pit> They ain't too expensive, either.
[18:20] <edmoore> there is probably a rabbit-hole of metrology to do this arbitrarily well but that might be a decent start
[18:20] <jakeio> Right, .flush() definitely is the function which is waiting. write doesn't seem to wait at all. Even with default timeout=None.
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[18:22] <Lunar_Lander> air temperature measurement is one of the things that took a long time to become good if I may express it like that
[18:23] <edmoore> yes i know what you mean
[18:23] <edmoore> hard to measure the temperature of the air rather than the temperature of the temperature sensor
[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[18:26] <RealBorg> what about the infrared-temperature-sensors?
[18:27] <edmoore> what do you point them at?
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[18:31] <RealBorg> some screen or the balloon (if it is not reflective)
[18:31] <RealBorg> screen = piece of paper
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[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> the balloon gets quite "hot" as far as I know
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> due to the sun warming it
[18:42] Action: kc2pit starts wondering about building a narrow-band IR thermometer.
[18:43] <kc2pit> Because if you set it up to measure, say, 5-6 microns, it would do a pretty decent job of measuring the temperature of the water vapor in the air.
[18:45] <kc2pit> Not over short distances, of course, but if all you want is "What's the average temperature of roughly the nearest kilometer of air" then I think it could work quite well.
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[18:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
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[18:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MMtest_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MMtest_chase
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[19:03] <jakeio> daveake, I may have fixed it. But of course now that I've said that. I probably haven't.
[19:10] <jakeio> As I said, probably haven't... D:
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[19:30] <domojn> THat was a fun day
[19:30] <domojn> minus wasting my morning
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[19:33] <mfa298> a morning tracking habs is never a wasted morning.
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> I agree
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[19:41] <jakeio> daveake, I actually have fixed it this time. Turns out, it's an issue with the string conversion code which was added recently. So I just go char by char converting to bytes objects and send them in sequence, writing one at a time though. Then I flush and close and it works!
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[20:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M6LZY - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M6LZY
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[21:21] <Ian_> jakeio, it's good when you point out your mistakes, hopefully it helps others to not make the same ones.
[21:21] <Ian_> A forlorne hope that we might run out of programming errors to make :)
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> will that ever happen?
[21:23] <Ian_> I doubt it. I can see a train crash coming up in about a month though!
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> ohhhhhhh
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> how so?
[21:24] <Ian_> 24 stations in 75kHz with a common start point has to be a disaster in the making
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:25] <Ian_> Maybe that's 700kHz (oops), but with the accuracy of frequency setting etc. I can see that some stations will be allocated duff frequencies with no wriggle room.
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> :( not good
[21:26] <Ian_> Definitely a yagi day!
[21:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
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[21:28] <Ian_> Gnite Tom
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> what is that event btw?
[21:29] <Ian_> 12 May Young Engineer Of the Year Competition as I understand it. RAF Cosford, so close to me.
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[21:30] <Ian_> 300 baud I believe. SentintoSpace - lots of experience but just recently mastered the flight doc :(
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:30] <Ian_> From reading between the lines I get the 'impression' that the RAF may be looking after the gas
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> like in sponsoring it?
[21:31] <Ian_> So that's a line or two off the risk assessment
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:38] <Ian_> It's probably not practical, given the situation and experience of the participants, but I think that I would have selected four or six frequencies and given each of six or four HABs a time slot for transmission.
[21:38] <Ian_> Before GPS lock make the transmission 1min _random(15secs)
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[21:39] <Ian_> That way a low number of ground stations could cover the lot and if there was a bad frequency then a backup could be made selectable for each group.
[21:40] <Ian_> Unfortunately that would take development, time and coordination.
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[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> but it is better to do that beforehand than just cram everything
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[21:55] <JonnyAlpha> Hi - can someone recommend a supplier of RG58/U Coax and N Connectors for making 434MHz Collinear Antenna?
[21:59] <mfa298> maplin, rs, cpc or any of the amateur radio outlets
[22:03] <mfa298> although I'd wonder if rg58 is the best option, it's not very rigid, so you'll need to support the antenna, and isn't brilliant at 434MHz (although I'm not sure how much of a difference that will make for building an antenna
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[22:08] <JonnyAlpha> I am trying to build a 434MHz Collinear Antenna, the guides I have found are here: http://www.rason.org/Projects/collant/collant.htm and here: http://www.rason.org/Projects/collant/collant.htm
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[22:08] <JonnyAlpha> Sorry here: http://jeroen.steeman.org/Antenna/collinear-coax
[22:10] <JonnyAlpha> So if not RG58 what then and what guide should I follow. I have built a 1/4 wave version using these guides using HDF-400, it has been suggested that a half wave version will not work and that if the guide states RG58 then I should use that?
[22:12] <mfa298> if it's supported then rg58 will probably do, I'm wondering if somethign like rg213 would do any better as it's lower loss. But I'm not sure how much impact that loss would have in an antenna
[22:13] <mfa298> I suspect it might just mean the higher elements provide less benefit.
[22:14] <mfa298> you could always build one with rg58 and see how it goes, then look at trying a lower loss coax when you're happy building them.
[22:14] <Ian_> RG213 and solid nylon dielectrics tend to have a 66% velocity factor, Foam dielectrics tend to be 83 to 86%, so whatever you choose check the spec for the velocity factor as it will undoubtedly affect the measurements.
[22:15] <Ian_> RG213 is not good - I think - because the central conductor is a number of strands and so may prove problematical in construction.
[22:16] <Ian_> All RG58 is not made equal either. Choose one with a dense tightly woven braid, preferably tinned.
[22:16] <Ian_> Avoid cables with included foil as that may also be more of a problem than it is worth
[22:16] <mfa298> I think the same is true of rg58, although that's much thinner strands in the centre
[22:17] <Ian_> OK missed that.
[22:19] <JonnyAlpha> Wow so much to consider!! One of the links has a calculator for adjusting the lengths based on the VF.
[22:20] <Ian_> If there isn't, then you can make your own adjustment as long as the calculator hasn't made an assumption without telling you about it.
[22:20] <mfa298> check what was said on the list, I think the recommendation was to use 1/2 wavelength sections not 1/4 (as you said above)
[22:21] <Ian_> Compare results and make a decision based on that and test your own maths skills to check too.
[22:21] <JonnyAlpha> The main guide is for a 9dB 70cm Collinear is that what I should be using?
[22:22] <JonnyAlpha> Also it states RG58/U I see there are many versions of RG58, some sellers just state RG58?
[22:23] <mfa298> some of the suffixes define things like the outer type and may also define some of the inner specs
[22:23] <mfa298> often there'll be variants that are more UV tolerage
[22:24] <Ian_> 9db is a good figure for a colinear. If unstated then avoid. I think that RG58-U is a better cable, but if in doubt phone the supplier if possible and ask about the weave of the braid etc.
[22:24] <mfa298> s/tolerage/tolerant/
[22:24] <Ian_> From what I said earlier, spot the foam dialectrics
[22:24] <Ian_> http://www.g4urh.co.uk/amateur_radio/coax_cable_spec.php
[22:26] <Ian_> Google 'cable type spec' and check the detail.
[22:26] <Ian_> You came for a snack and went away with a banquet . . . where to start eh?
[22:28] <mfa298> Ian_: and one of those with the higher vf is also an unusual impedance.
[22:28] <Ian_> 50 Ohm of course
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[22:29] <Ian_> RG62-A/U one of those for building odd matching harnesses perhaps
[22:29] <Ian_> Gnite LL
[22:30] <mfa298> I actually came across a load of that in a building once.
[22:31] <mfa298> apparently used for a system called arcnet
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[22:33] <JonnyAlpha> Just taken a screen shot of all this info many thanks - Maplins sell RG58U for about £30 for 100mtrs, more than I need :-)
[22:34] <Vaizki> caramba! greetings from mexico
[22:34] <Vaizki> my school had an arcnet network, first LAN that I ever used
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[22:42] <Ian_> My you get about a bit Vaizki, the flying Finn
[22:45] <Ian_> JohnnyAlpha the cable doesn't need to stand up, but needs to be suspended from the top of pvc tube that it is built into.
[22:46] <Vaizki> Ian_, yes Buenos Aires and Panama already done last week...
[22:46] <Ian_> Gosh it must have been heavy carrying all those 11.4M documents :)
[22:47] <Vaizki> 3 small SSDs...
[22:47] <Ian_> The tax man is on your tail :)
[22:47] <Vaizki> always
[22:48] <Ian_> It was a scary amount of data though, some security - trusted employee - cough!
[22:49] <Ian_> As long as he isn't on your case then it's OK
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[23:23] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SQ5NWI-14 after 0311 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ5NWI-14
[23:32] <Vaizki> knowing the state of Panama internet connections (I do work for Cable & Wireless) it would be a surprise if all that data was snatched over the Internet
[23:32] <Vaizki> more likely it was copied locally at the offices a d carried out
[23:39] <SpeedEvil> 2.6tb isn't much
[23:39] <SpeedEvil> It was reportedly over some extended tie.
[23:39] <SpeedEvil> time
[23:39] <SpeedEvil> Over a year, it's 7G/day
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[00:00] --- Tue Apr 12 2016