highaltitude.log.20160321

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[01:36] <hosler> so i figured out what my issue was. my laptop was making the sound stutter and thus messing with the rtty singal
[01:44] <SpeedEvil> yay
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[01:55] <hosler> yeah
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[02:00] <hosler> can i get my balloon onto habhub tracker without using dl-fldigi?
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[02:35] <Darkside> hosler: sure
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[07:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UB3DFZ_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UB3DFZ_chase
[08:11] <AndyEsser> morning
[08:17] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-11 after 038 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
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[08:36] <R34lB0rg> morning
[08:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> waiting fot edupic to pop up over canary islands newx few hours
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[09:18] <fsphil> https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/03/21/068225/students-experiments-to-fly-by-glider-to-the-edge-of-space
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[09:21] <fsphil> attempt to drop a glider (and pilots) from 27km
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[09:25] <R34lB0rg> not drop - fly the glider up there
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[09:30] <fsphil> ah, read "edge of space" too many times, brain went into HAB mode
[09:30] <fsphil> gliding to 27km is even more impressive
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[09:35] <Vaizki> tbh this is done by professional pilots and Airbus, not schoolkids :)
[09:36] <Vaizki> I think the flight itself is big news, not so much that science projects are hitching a free ride :)
[09:45] <gonzo_> the pic on their home page, shows them inflating a balloon surrounded by a web of telegraph lines
[09:46] <gonzo_> (well they look like old telegraph)
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[09:57] <R34lB0rg> fsphil, airbus has some experience http://www.militaryaircraft-airbusds.com/Aircraft/UAV/Zephyr.aspx
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[10:30] <Ben-AstroSoc> out of curiosity
[10:30] <Ben-AstroSoc> is there a Chris Hillcox here?
[10:30] <daveake> I don't think he does IRC
[10:31] <Ben-AstroSoc> ah
[10:31] <Ben-AstroSoc> no problem
[10:32] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: what you hunting him down for? :P
[10:33] <Ben-AstroSoc> he emailed one of my lecturers after seeing some of Aston's first year projects at the Big Bang fair regarding doing a project do build a carbon dioxide atmospheric sensor
[10:33] <Ben-AstroSoc> to which she emailed me asking if this was something that would be worth combining with our current project
[10:33] <AndyEsser> Ah
[10:34] <Ben-AstroSoc> so was wondering if he was on here as it'd save a slow email conversation :')
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[10:46] <Ian_> [09:35] <Vaizki> tbh this is done by professional pilots and Airbus, not schoolkids :)
[10:47] <Ian_> That would be proof that Airbus has a Marketing department with stereotype Marketing employees then!
[10:47] <Ian_> I notice that their Xephyr was good for a 5kg payload, so not a lot of life support there then!
[10:48] Action: Ian_ checks date
[10:51] <Ian_> Ben-AstroSoc watch out for your IP. There is form there.
[10:53] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS14 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS14
[10:59] <Upu> cool almost round
[11:00] <fsphil> woo!
[11:01] <fsphil> 1.38v
[11:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> Ian_: hmm?
[11:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Battery is doing very well!
[11:06] <fsphil> altitude slowly rising
[11:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Isn't Chris Hillcox BARC when he comes up here ?
[11:10] <daveake> Nope
[11:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Right
[11:14] <Upu> no
[11:14] <Upu> Chris Hillcox != BARC
[11:15] <Upu> IRC is too complex for Chris Hillcox
[11:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> OK :)
[11:16] <Ben-AstroSoc> what was that about my IP?
[11:17] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: research Intellectual Property - and trademarks
[11:17] <AndyEsser> and be warned
[11:18] <Ben-AstroSoc> what was the issue with my IP
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[11:43] <edmoore> Ben-AstroSoc: the irc opinion is that we don't think much of him and personally i wouldn't work with him
[11:43] <edmoore> if you want a non-fannying answer
[11:43] <fsphil> ah, yeah I thought Ian_ meant IP address too :)
[11:49] <nick_> edmoore: Are you available sometime soon to provide some input for what sort of radio system we shuld put on the hackspace building's roof?
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[11:50] <Ben-AstroSoc> edmoore: cheers, I'll talk to the guy and see what he has in mind - wary about taking on too much anyway
[11:52] <nick_> edmoore: if so, please see https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/oxford-hackspace/_P4jeuCyrNg particularly the doodle poll linked in the first mail.
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[12:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BARC3 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BARC3
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[12:26] <Vaizki> nick_, antenna system for what?
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[12:27] <SM0ULC-Reb> cool, ubseds arrived outside africa
[12:28] <nick_> Vaizki: for whatever we'd lile.
[12:28] <nick_> like
[12:28] <nick_> We need to propose something to the building owner.
[12:30] <Vaizki> I wish antennas were so easy that you put up something and it serves all your needs :(
[12:32] <Vaizki> if you want to receive only, makes things a lot easier
[12:33] <mfa298> nick_: you tend to have to have to compromise on one of size/compexity, bandwidth, efficiency. (i.e. if you want something to cover lots of bands it's either going to not perform that well or be big and complex)
[12:34] <edmoore> nick_: yeah sorry i've not replied to your email yet
[12:36] <gonzo_> decide what bands and useage is required/forecast first. Tyring to cover all bases is not going to be sensible
[12:42] <tweetBot> @bristolseds: Our latest balloon #ubseds14 has arrived in North Africa! https://t.co/1vi2ntIxLk #ukhas Meanwhile we're in Harwell with @ukseds
[12:43] <edmoore> poor them
[12:47] <fsphil> looked like a nice quiet place, then I got to the bit with the nuclear power plants
[12:55] <AndyEsser> they're not too loud
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[13:07] <tweetBot> @AmsatUK: Congratulations @bristolseds on successful global flight with 434MHz & APRS payloads #hamradio #hamr @theRSGByouth https://t.co/ZJgZgSbusm
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[13:10] <craag> lol rsgb youth
[13:10] <Darkside> anyone <40 years old
[13:12] <Vaizki> hey I have a 15yo radio amateur at home ;)
[13:13] <edmoore> i wonder what they're doing at harwell
[13:13] <Vaizki> I need to get my license too...
[13:13] <edmoore> suspect they're at the satellite applications catapult
[13:13] <edmoore> making them the only people at the satellite applications catapult
[13:13] <craag> hah
[13:15] Nick change: drsnik_ -> drsnik
[13:32] <gonzo_> my daughter got her foundation licence when she was 9, but refused to touch a radio since
[13:32] <AndyEsser> how come?
[13:33] <gonzo_> she has seen what lives out there
[13:35] <gonzo_> I was asked to do a hab talk at a local club. She has to come along, so just hid at the back and played on her phone
[13:36] <gonzo_> till a couple of old lads sat near here and started talking about doctors appointments and heamorrhoids
[13:37] <fsphil> :/
[13:37] <Vaizki> :D
[13:38] <AndyEsser> err...
[13:38] <AndyEsser> how old is she?
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[13:39] <gonzo_> coming up 16 now. But was about 12 when the pile incident occured
[13:40] <Vaizki> my kid got his license when he was 11 if I recall correctly.
[13:41] <craag> We can proudly say we used our licenses at the weekend
[13:41] <craag> 2m worked great for cross-island comms
[13:42] <craag> (until we got irc over ukhasnet working :D )
[13:43] <gonzo_> if you want to play ssb, FRARS are putting on the club station on 2mtr/4mtrs on wed eves
[13:44] <gonzo_> missed last wed, as I was in sorting out the 4mtr tvtr system
[13:44] <craag> Ah interesting
[13:45] <fsphil> the ISM bands should've been nice and quiet out there too
[13:45] <craag> we're hoping to have a 2m crossed yagi up in the uni for cubesat oon
[13:45] <AndyEsser> craag: IRC over UKHASNET? nice
[13:45] <craag> which will require regular testing with amateur radio ;)
[13:45] <gonzo_> trying to drum upo some activity outside of conteses
[13:46] <craag> AndyEsser: yep, 2 long links, longest nearly 20km.
[13:46] <gonzo_> should be easy from our place
[13:47] <gonzo_> the club main shack antennas are not the highest, but the 4mtr one is on the contest mast, which gets rigged as required
[13:47] <AndyEsser> craag: what was the latency like?
[13:47] <gonzo_> the 11ele 4mtr yagi is up there at the mo for the cummulative contests
[13:48] <craag> AndyEsser: No IP layer, so 64 bytes * 1/(2kbps)
[13:48] <gonzo_> they can do 70cm ssb in request too
[13:48] Nick change: drsnik -> drsnik__
[13:48] <craag> gonzo_: We'll have 70cm yagis too :)
[13:48] <craag> *yagi
[13:49] <craag> in fact 70cm won't involve pulling out the masthead lna
[13:49] <craag> so will be easier
[13:49] <craag> although we're mounting this all head-height on a fenced roof - so hoping that wouldn't be a problem.
[13:49] <gonzo_> there is another pair opf fixed yagis going up for the local tv repeater. They will probably be pointiong roughly your way too. Though there is another rotatable one
[13:50] <craag> hmm might be able to hit the tv repeater too if we're lucky
[13:50] <gonzo_> just measure the beamwodth to check that it doen't impinge on the railings. But for sat you will be elevated most of the time anyway
[13:51] <gonzo_> they are playiong at going in on 70cm dvb and the o/p is 23cm dvb
[13:51] <gonzo_> it will take 23cm input on analogue of dvb
[13:51] <gonzo_> too
[13:51] <craag> k, got a minituoine so can do 23cm rx.
[13:51] <craag> dvb
[13:52] <gonzo_> the GB3SQ repeater is rxable on a set top box.
[13:52] <gonzo_> I really should have a look for it
[13:52] <gonzo_> though at home that could eb a tall order
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[14:04] <fsphil> the nearest tv repeater to me is 210km. a bit far for 1.3ghz maybe
[14:08] <gonzo_> big array on a hill
[14:08] <AndyEsser> gah, seriously tempted again to apply for tha BAS job just so I can get away from people :(
[14:08] <gonzo_> even 10miles is a struggle here,m though it is in someones backl garden
[14:09] <gonzo_> I applied for one of those about ... lots of years ago
[14:09] <gonzo_> tech support, 6mths on base, 6mths back in up supporting those out there
[14:10] <AndyEsser> yea, was eying up the Wintering communications manager (IT + satellite/radio comms)
[14:10] <AndyEsser> although the job seems to have vanished :(
[14:11] <gonzo_> also there eas one with the overseas dev agency
[14:11] <gonzo_> applied for both, heard nowt and forgoit about it. Then abouyt 3yrs later got a letter
[14:12] <gonzo_> for the next stage in the application progcess!
[14:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PI434 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI434
[14:13] <fsphil> they work at a glacial pace
[14:13] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI868 after 0324 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI868
[14:13] <gonzo_> ah, Ice see
[14:14] <fsphil> it takes them a while to warm up to you
[14:14] <gonzo_> I was frozen out of the process
[14:14] <fsphil> they give you the cold shoulder
[14:14] <gonzo_> told me to chill
[14:14] <AndyEsser> good lord...
[14:15] <gonzo_> well they did to some degree
[14:16] <gonzo_> with cold aerials AndyEsser, you would be given a frosty reception
[14:16] <AndyEsser> *facedesk*
[14:16] <fsphil> gah, didn't think of that one
[14:16] <fsphil> brain freeze
[14:16] <AndyEsser> not a cold shoulder?
[14:16] <gonzo_> ah, no ice see
[14:17] <gonzo_> ah, now ice see
[14:18] <gonzo_> the pun thread is melting away
[14:18] <fsphil> there's snow more left
[14:18] <gonzo_> it's snow joke
[14:18] <gonzo_> snap
[14:18] <fsphil> time to let it go
[14:18] <AndyEsser> these jokes are as cold as my ex's heart
[14:18] <AndyEsser> fsphil: NO!!!
[14:18] <fsphil> lol
[14:19] <gonzo_> are you warming to bthe idea?
[14:19] <gonzo_> bugger, just realised i'd used the ice one twice
[14:22] <daveake> twice or thrice?
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[14:27] <AndyEsser> I suppose we should be grateful it's not fish puns
[14:30] <fsphil>
[14:32] <daveake>
[14:32] <edmoore> i think 'so i can get away from people' would probably fail the psychological evaluation for that job
[14:33] <fsphil> yeah, you'll end up close to a small group of people for a long time
[14:34] <AndyEsser> edmoore: I probably wouldn't mention that bit in the pysch exam ;)
[14:35] <gonzo_> they would get it out of you under vtorture anyway
[14:40] <Vaizki> you could come and train in Finland for 3 months of no sunrises
[14:41] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: you paying for my food whilst I'm there ;)
[14:41] <Vaizki> no, you have to hunt it down
[14:41] <Vaizki> I'll pay for the coffee
[14:41] <AndyEsser> heh
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[14:42] <Vaizki> I'm sure 1 cup of Finnish coffee will be enough for a lifetime...
[14:43] <gonzo_> when we talk of High Altitude, that wasn't quite what was meant
[14:43] <AndyEsser> I've had Finnish coffee before
[14:43] <AndyEsser> it's not as strong as you lot make out ;)
[14:43] <Vaizki> oh no it's not strong at all
[14:43] <Vaizki> we just drink huge amounts of it
[14:43] <AndyEsser> heh
[14:43] <AndyEsser> was seeing that Tim Peake has enough tea on the ISS for 2 cups of Tea a day
[14:43] <AndyEsser> I couldn't cope with only 2 cups of coffee a day
[14:43] <gonzo_> I used to dring espresso by the mug, no way I could now
[14:43] <AndyEsser> there'd a massacre
[14:44] <gonzo_> one of the eng's here does though
[14:44] <Vaizki> I have a Jura Z5 to keep me going...
[14:45] <gonzo_> mmmm a bottle of Jura, but not coffee
[14:46] <Vaizki> oops Z6 actually :D
[14:46] <gonzo_> sounds more like a car than a coffee
[14:47] <Vaizki> it makes a decent flat white with one click
[14:55] <R34lB0rg> http://www.kaffeevollautomaten.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=12900&st=15
[14:55] <R34lB0rg> just look at the pictures
[14:56] <R34lB0rg> i'm glad the isspresso is made by saeco
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[15:18] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03AGENA2 after 034 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AGENA2
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[16:08] <Geoff-G8DHE_> daveake, Just noticed for your launch Wednesday that its some tweaks to the tracker code ? Will any gateway changes be uploaded before wednesday ?
[16:08] <daveake> Tracker changes only
[16:08] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Thats OK then!
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[16:09] <daveake> Fixing the error where the GPS time gets stuck which accounted for RTTY staying off for a while till the time sorted itself out.
[16:10] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah right, didn't want to have a last minute rush was all at my end ;-)
[16:10] <daveake> Also, the tracker program now inserts some telemetry (some = altitude only so far) into the JPEG comments
[16:11] <daveake> and that's extracted by a script that adds a telemetry overlay to downloaded images
[16:11] <daveake> e.g. http://ssdv.habhub.org/images/2016-03-21--15-40-56-PI868-47A0.jpeg?u=367
[16:11] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah noce
[16:11] <Geoff-G8DHE_> even nice
[16:12] <Geoff-G8DHE_> How about full location, Az and El of camera next ?
[16:12] <Geoff-G8DHE_> :)
[16:14] <daveake> Planned.
[16:15] <Geoff-G8DHE_> That will make creating spherical images a lot easier!
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[16:16] <edmoore> the pi logos less so
[16:16] <edmoore> though it does make me hungry
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[16:22] <daveake> oh the pi logo is just from a sample script I made a while back; this isn't the final layout
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[16:38] Nick change: MoALTz_ -> MoALTz
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[18:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03TT7 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TT7
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[19:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RN6HI - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RN6HI
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[19:21] <tweetBot> @stratodean: Watch Bethans Special Report on our launch last week! https://t.co/8wgr0ZlnT7 #ukhas #hab360
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[20:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BENNY_1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BENNY_1
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[21:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-62 after 039 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-62
[21:36] <fsphil> this one's in no rush
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[21:46] <AConfusedStudent> Hi! Does anyone know roughly what the average force of impact of a HAB payload is? Thanks
[21:46] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ARY2T after 033 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ARY2T
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[21:58] <mfa298> AConfusedStudent: the standard recommendation is that it shouldn't hit the ground at more than 5 m/s
[21:59] <mfa298> for any payload the question is would you be happy with it landing on your greenhouse/car/head/child without damage/injury occuring.
[21:59] <mfa298> If you think damage/injury could happen it's probably not safe to fly
[22:02] <AConfusedStudent> Thanks. I am designing a payload to have as soft a landing as possible for a project so I needed a figure to try and aim to get under. I have build a aluminium frame that suspends the foam payload with elastics for a soft landing
[22:03] <mfa298> do you mean the payload sitting inside the aluminium frame, so the frame is going to be the first thing to contact the ground (or any other item) ?
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[22:06] <daveake> soft landing as possible, but there's an ali frame ??
[22:06] <AConfusedStudent> Yes, exactly. If all goes well the foam box should't come into contact with the ground. I have put an accelerometer in there to make sure it works out how it is meant to.
[22:06] <mfa298> personally I'd be more worried about the damage to other things from the ali frame.
[22:07] <mfa298> how do you think you'd be if it landed on your head ?
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[22:08] <AConfusedStudent> Yeah thats one of the things that I have tried to sort out. I currently have put foam strips about 5cm deep on the bottom bit of the frame. Do you think that will be safe enough?
[22:10] <mfa298> I think part of the key there is to make it as light, soft and to some extend breakable as possible. I'm not sure aluminium fits that bill
[22:11] <mfa298> if you need that level of protection for the contents you might be better having something like a polystyrene box suspended inside a larger polystyrene box
[22:15] <AConfusedStudent> The ali frame is made of 0.5 cm diameter rods so it is pretty light at the moment.
[22:16] <AConfusedStudent> the box idea is a good one though. I think I will try that out, I have a few poly boxes lying around
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[22:19] <mfa298> personally I'd want soemthing that can break apart if it comes down a bit too quickly rather than it damaging other things.
[22:21] <michal_f_home> my 1st payload had antenna from a too thick copper wire, and it bend almost 90 deg on land
[22:21] <michal_f_home> http://snag.gy/jKsyU.jpg
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[22:21] <michal_f_home> that made me think it wasn't too safe
[22:21] <michal_f_home> next time I do it with softer wire
[22:21] <daveake> sharp stabby things = bad
[22:22] <michal_f_home> also the payload descended much faster that I wished to
[22:22] <AConfusedStudent> Yeah breaking apart is definitely important. I am also testing out a thin balsa wood.
[22:22] <daveake> most payloads have nothing more than polystyrene foam as the structurable components
[22:22] <AConfusedStudent> What do you think is the absolute max weight of a payload for a 2000g baloon?
[22:22] <michal_f_home> yup, when I saw that in field I imagined some poor kid with polystyrene hat :/
[22:23] <daveake> The balloon doesn't care
[22:23] <daveake> More weight = lower burst, and higher chance of damage on landing
[22:23] <daveake> More than ~3kg starts to get difficult to manage at launch
[22:24] <daveake> For low damage you want low weight and no metal rods
[22:24] <AConfusedStudent> yeah I am hoping for 3kg max. Does it get difficult to manage because the balloon doesn't have enough lift?
[22:25] <daveake> No because you have to hold on to the neck of a balloon that's going to be pulling at ~5kg
[22:25] <AConfusedStudent> I am planning on using a overkill parachute so that should help as well
[22:25] <mfa298> AConfusedStudent: the better question is how light can I make the payload, that should lead to something that has less chance of damage, lower gas costs and more altitude
[22:26] <mfa298> AConfusedStudent: if you havn't found them yet http://habhub.org/calc/ and http://predict.habhub.org/ are useful tools
[22:27] <mfa298> Most people aim for 5m/s for ascent and descent. The first link will give you an idea of how much gas is needed for a given balloon and how high it'll go.
[22:27] <AConfusedStudent> oh wow thanks so much this is so useful!
[22:29] <mfa298> there's a lot of information on the wiki as well
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[22:34] <mfa298> Larger balloons & payloads also give more logistical issues. For your 3kg payload on a 2000g balloon you'd probably need the X-Large cylinder from http://balloonhelium.co.uk/main/pricing that's going to be heavy to move around and might be interesting to get in some cars.
[22:36] <mfa298> a 1kg payload on a 1200g balloon needs around half the gas (and 1kg is still heavy compared to most things people fly)
[22:36] <mfa298> both those setups get to around 33km based on the calculator
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[22:49] <tweetBot> @MikScarlet: Confused when another #tory trots out the #ukhas the worlds fast growing economy on @BBCNewsnight unchallenged. 2015 uk = 122nd gdp growth
[22:52] <Upu> haha l2usespacebar
[23:02] <mfa298> #it.could.be.worse
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:09] <fsphil> lol
[23:10] <fsphil> not often we encourage people to use space
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[00:00] --- Tue Mar 22 2016