highaltitude.log.20160314

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[00:07] <vcazan> hello, I have been trying to get my pie in the sky tracker to work all weeekend with no luck, for some reason I cant find the signal in srd#, I only see one large peak but not two, can anyone help me?
[00:08] <vcazan> this is what I see: http://imgur.com/FX7Aj69
[00:09] <vcazan> does anyone have any advise on what settings I should use to tune better, or is my hardware defective
[00:11] <Oddstr13> try tune to the FM band and see if you can find anything there
[00:11] <vcazan> I can get radio stations on FM
[00:12] <fsphil> does that signal disappear when the payload is off?
[00:12] <vcazan> yeah, as soon as I turn the payload on i see spikes around 434
[00:12] <fsphil> tx is working at least
[00:13] <fsphil> which model of pi?
[00:13] <vcazan> pi model b
[00:13] <vcazan> original
[00:14] <vcazan> I have the original pi in the sky board
[00:14] <fsphil> the payload software might not be running
[00:14] <vcazan> let me ssh into the pi and check
[00:14] <fsphil> the radio module is driven by the serial port on the pi, so in theory if you write to /dev/ttyACM0 you should see the signal change
[00:15] <vcazan> so screen /dev/ttypAMC0
[00:15] <vcazan> and then type shit
[00:15] <Oddstr13> the model B or B+?
[00:15] <fsphil> yeah, or echo stuff > /dev/ttyACM0
[00:15] <fsphil> the default baud rate will be too high but it should still have an effect
[00:15] <vcazan> kkk
[00:17] <vcazan> I dont have an acm0, I have ama0
[00:17] <vcazan> is that the same thing
[00:17] <fsphil> yeah
[00:18] <daveake> ttyAMA0
[00:18] <daveake> check the tracker is running - it's called "tracker"
[00:18] <daveake> It should get autostarted
[00:18] <vcazan> yeah I did a sudo killall tracker
[00:18] <vcazan> and then sudo ./tracker
[00:19] <daveake> and ...
[00:19] <vcazan> I can see the output
[00:19] <vcazan> complaining about the camera
[00:19] <daveake> Technically the tracker doesn't, as it doesn't do anything with the camera; that's a separate bash script
[00:20] <daveake> Anyway, it runs and doesn't quit?
[00:22] <daveake> If so, and assuming you haven't changed the config file to disable RTTY, then the problem is almost certainly that the serial port hasn't been freed up yet via raspi-config
[00:22] <vcazan> I can see this in the output of the tracker
[00:22] <vcazan> http://pastebin.com/4W5L6vJf
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[00:23] <vcazan> so it looks like its sending somthing, its all zeros because I am in the basement
[00:24] <daveake> Disable getty on /dev/ttyAMA0, via raspi-config
[00:24] <vcazan> kkk
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[00:25] <vcazan> advanced options > serial > yes?
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[00:26] <daveake> I don't have a Pi here, so I don't know the wording, but you don't want the operating system to use the serial port
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[00:28] <vcazan> would you like the login shell accessible over serial > No?
[00:29] <daveake> correct
[00:30] <vcazan> okay i've changed that and rebooted
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[00:30] <vcazan> still only see the one peak in sdr#
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[00:33] <daveake> Kill the tracker, and echo some text to the port. You should see 2 peaks, briefly.
[00:34] <daveake> Also worth doing "ps -ef | grep ttyAMA0" to make sure that the port isn't in use
[00:35] <vcazan> ran the last command and got: pi 946 776 0 00:34 pts/0 00:00:00 grep --color=auto ttyAMA0
[00:35] <daveake> fine, no getty then
[00:36] <vcazan> okay
[00:41] <daveake> I assume you've zoomed in to the peak in your sdr software?
[00:42] <vcazan> yes I have, i've sent the echo but dont see a difference
[00:42] <vcazan> should I be using some RF gain
[00:42] <vcazan> or leave settings on default
[00:42] <daveake> check that gpio write 0 0 turns the peak off
[00:42] <daveake> and check that you're tuned in to the strongest peak (zoom out first)
[00:43] <vcazan> gpio write 0 0 does not do anything
[00:43] <vcazan> and yes this is the highest peak, but I cant see the top it goes past zero
[00:44] <daveake> Dunno what that means, but if you can't see the top then I'm not sure how you can tell it only has 1 peak
[00:44] <vcazan> ill take a screenshot
[00:44] <daveake> Also, gpio write 0 0 turns off the transmitter
[00:45] <vcazan> Just a note, I am using the earliest version of the pi in the sky board
[00:45] <vcazan> dont know if that changes anything
[00:45] <daveake> not in that regard no
[00:46] <Oddstr13> you sure it isn't the IQ peak you're looking at?
[00:47] <Oddstr13> try resetting the contrast, range and offset sliders to their default positions
[00:47] <Oddstr13> also, turn off autogain in the settings, and turn it down to minimum
[00:47] <Oddstr13> you should still be able to see the transmitter if they are both sitting on the desk next to you
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[00:52] <vcazan> these are screenshots of the peak zoomed out and zin
[00:52] <vcazan> http://imgur.com/a/1thiv
[00:53] <vcazan> its werid that gpio write 0 0 does not turn off the trasmitter, I can only turn it off when I pull the power
[00:55] <vcazan> could it be a bad pi?
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[00:57] <daveake> do "gpio mode 0 output" then repeat "gpio write 0 0"
[00:57] <Oddstr13> vcazan: I never tune dead on, due to the IQ spike
[00:59] <vcazan> @daveake no luck, still on
[01:00] <vcazan> Oddstr13: but still only one peak
[01:00] <daveake> OK, so either a) you're not looking at the PITS signal, b) duff Pi, c) PITS not plugged in properly, d) duff PITS
[01:04] <vcazan> Okay thanks so much Dave!@
[01:04] <vcazan> I will change out the pi and see if that makes a difference, pits is practically brand new, been waiting in the drawer for now lol
[01:05] <vcazan> When I first got it I could get half the message to come though, though it would never pass checksum
[01:06] <daveake> Probably you didn't have dl-fldigi tuned in properly, with the correct shift
[01:08] <vcazan> Pluging in a new pi to rule that out
[01:11] <vcazan> i've found a 2 peak around 345 would it be that off?
[01:12] <vcazan> IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[01:12] <vcazan> that pi is going in the bin
[01:12] <SpeedEvil> :)
[01:13] <daveake> That's a new one, but good :)
[01:13] <vcazan> Thanks so much Dave and Oddstr13!
[01:13] <daveake> np
[01:13] <vcazan> crappy sdr dongle I guess
[01:14] <Oddstr13> I probably wouldn't be throwing the pi away just cause the pits dosn't work with it tho :P
[01:14] <daveake> no :)
[01:14] <daveake> I assume you ruled out (c) above when you removed pits from the first Pi? :)
[01:14] <Oddstr13> I've received and decoded signals over 5000km away with my crappy 5$ dongle and a random wire :P
[01:16] <vcazan> Yes I verified it was plugged in correctly, then changed pi's, lets see if I switch back what happens
[01:20] <vcazan> so I plugged back in the original pi and nothing anymore, so it did make a difference
[01:20] <daveake> ok
[01:26] <SpeedEvil> The Pi should work for most other things, I assume it's you've killed a GPIO
[01:28] <vcazan> yeah the once I replaced it with was acting as an astropi server running my 3d printer, i've swaped and it works as expected
[01:31] <SpeedEvil> do write on a label what's wrong with it, or it'll confuse you in a year
[01:32] <Oddstr13> "GPIO might or might not work. YMMV"
[01:33] <vcazan> Yeah very good idea
[01:34] <vcazan> last question, should GPS just work, I took it outside and its still giving me 0,0,0,0
[01:35] <vcazan> oh there we go, nvm it works!
[01:35] <vcazan> im going to the moon! lol
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[02:00] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 0320 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
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[02:49] <mfa298> vcazan: depending on where you are in the world you are the 434MHz band may not be license free, so you may need an amateur radio license to use it.
[02:50] <mfa298> I only comment as it's the middle of the night in Europe ( where 434 is a license free ISM band)
[02:53] <vcazan> mfa298: you are correct, I am taking classes at my local club and have gotten the permission of a member with a call sign for help during the flight
[02:53] <vcazan> in Canada you need a license
[02:55] <vcazan> cant wait to use APRS here :)
[02:55] <mfa298> vcazan: ah good, as long as its something you've checked and are getting sorted
[02:56] <vcazan> thanks for checking, I know many people might not know
[02:56] <mfa298> there are some people that see it's license free in some places that then assume it's license free everywhere
[02:57] <vcazan> im off for the night but thanks again, happy to see that IRC is still live and active
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[05:44] <SM0ULC-Reb> morning!
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[05:51] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS14 after 037 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS14
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[06:46] <Vaizki> \o/ go go little AA go
[06:48] <SA6BSS-Mike> A hab article on rt-sdr blog http://www.rtl-sdr.com/creating-a-fsk-video-data-system-for-high-altitude-balloons/
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[07:43] <Upu> yeah thats Darkside
[07:43] <Darkside> wat
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[07:44] <Darkside> i'm famous?
[07:44] <Darkside> jeez
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[07:52] <edmoore> 'it's actually 115387 baud as we've found out...'
[07:52] <edmoore> lol pi
[07:53] <edmoore> good audio Darkside - is that just whatever your camera has?
[07:53] <edmoore> with my camera's built in mic you get everything bounding off the walls very clearly (but annoyingly)
[07:54] <Darkside> edmoore: yes
[07:54] <Darkside> Nexus 5X
[07:55] <Darkside> edmoore: also i'm not too surprised by the baud rate offset, given its based on a divider from some master clock
[07:55] <edmoore> sure
[07:55] <Darkside> anyway, the exact baud rate doesnt matter, it's just knowing what it is
[07:56] <Darkside> still, getting it bang on 125kbaud would be nice
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[07:56] <Darkside> as it would remove the need for a fractional decimator in th ereceive signal processing chain
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[07:58] <edmoore> for the gps we trained a KF to track the baud rate
[07:58] <edmoore> which told as that the tsxo was about 0.1ppb out
[07:58] <edmoore> which i don't begrudge it
[07:59] <Darkside> lol
[07:59] <Darkside> not too shabby ;-)
[07:59] <SM0ULC-Reb> Darkside: nice work
[07:59] <Darkside> SM0ULC-Reb: we haven't flown it yet!
[07:59] <Darkside> getting there...
[08:00] <Darkside> also looking at adding some LDPC FEC coding to it
[08:00] <Darkside> to give it a few more db
[08:00] <SM0ULC-Reb> Darkside: what rate are you aiming for when flying?
[08:00] <Darkside> i expect the symbol rate will still be the 115387 baud
[08:00] <Darkside> actual user rate will be lower
[08:01] <Darkside> probably closer to 60kbps
[08:01] <Darkside> depends on the code we use
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[08:02] <Darkside> actual available user throughput right now is ~92kbaud, as we're treating the UART start & stop bits as overhead
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[08:04] <SM0ULC-Reb> Darkside: what kind of FSK? PSK, BSK..
[08:04] <Darkside> err
[08:04] <Darkside> 2-FSK
[08:05] <SM0ULC-Reb> Darkside: what range do you expect with the 115k rate?
[08:05] <Darkside> good question
[08:05] <Darkside> a better metric is what is the minimum-detectable signal level
[08:05] <Darkside> which at the moment is -106dBm
[08:05] <Darkside> so you'd have to go do the link budget calcs to work out what the range would be
[08:05] <SM0ULC-Reb> of course
[08:06] <Darkside> we may be able to get a little bit more range by cranking the tx power up to the max the RFM22B can do (100mW)
[08:07] <Darkside> we're not running this test in an ISM band, so power limits arent a problem
[08:07] <SM0ULC-Reb> never played with rates that high, really cool anyway
[08:07] <Darkside> for us its more trying to fully open source the stack
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[08:07] <Darkside> or as close as we can get anyway
[08:11] <SM0ULC-Reb> SSDV is great i think. very usable in a lot of other projects/apps
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[08:22] <AndyEsser> morning
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[08:25] <fsphil> yeah it's amazing </bias>
[08:26] <AndyEsser> It's ok ;)
[08:27] <fsphil> Darkside: I wonder if it's possible to abuse the uart, and disable the start and stop bits too
[08:32] <Darkside> hrm
[08:32] <Darkside> fsphil: i'd be more interested if you could figure out how to set arbitrary baud rates :-)
[08:32] <Darkside> or at least twiddle the divider register
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[08:36] <fsphil> just looking at the registers, it's 1 or 2 stop bits only. no zero
[08:37] <fsphil> FBRD, fractional baud rate divisor, 6 bits wide
[08:38] <fsphil> https://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/BCM2835-ARM-Peripherals.pdf
[08:38] <fsphil> page 183
[08:39] <AndyEsser> any AVR guru's here that have used the 328p in the TQFP package?
[08:39] <Upu> I used it wouldn't say guru
[08:40] <AndyEsser> So the differences I can between that package and the 28 pin dip I have at home is the addition of 2 more ADC channels
[08:40] <AndyEsser> ADC6 and ADC7
[08:40] <AndyEsser> but the <avr/io.h> include doesn't seem to have defines for reading those inputs, and I was wondering if there was some magic I need to do?
[08:44] <Upu> yep
[08:44] <Upu> they are input only
[08:44] <Upu> using Arduino ?
[08:45] <Upu> If so open boards.txt which is down \Arduino-1.0.5\hardware\arduino
[08:45] <Upu> find your board
[08:45] <Upu> amend xxxxx.build.variant=standard
[08:46] <Upu> to xxxxx.build.variant=eightanaloginputs
[08:46] <Upu> and then just A6/A7
[08:54] <AndyEsser> god no
[08:54] <AndyEsser> never using Arduino
[08:55] <AndyEsser> looks like you have to read the memory locations direct (which I guess is all the existing defines do) so I'll just delve into the appropriate datasheet for it
[08:56] <fab4space> Darkside, on which freq / bandwith do you plan to use this high bitrate ssdv?
[08:56] <Darkside> fab4space: 441MHz, it's about 200khz wide with the FSK sidebands
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[08:57] <fab4space> can you use this freq/bandwith airborne Darkside ?
[08:57] <Darkside> yes
[08:57] <Darkside> because i'm in Australia
[08:57] <fab4space> ah ok!
[08:57] <fab4space> lucky guy :)
[08:57] <Darkside> and we don't have silly restrictions like the UK doew
[08:57] <Darkside> does*
[08:57] <fab4space> and France :p
[08:58] <AndyEsser> :P
[08:58] <Darkside> yes, none of those issues here...
[08:58] <fab4space> lucky you :)
[08:58] <Darkside> you could probably run it at a slightly lower rate under ISM limits
[08:59] <fab4space> at 868Mhz / 5mW I think you can use 250kHz
[08:59] <fab4space> but that's not 100mW :p
[08:59] <Darkside> well i might noe fly 100mw
[09:01] <fab4space> for the sidebands , do you plan to add gaussian filter like gmsk?
[09:01] <Darkside> nope
[09:01] <Darkside> dont care
[09:01] <fab4space> or gfsk
[09:01] <Darkside> not really concerned about spectral occupancy on this one
[09:01] <fab4space> ok
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[09:04] <fab4space> which lna are you using Darkside for the rtl-sdr dongle?
[09:04] <Darkside> its an earlier habamp
[09:04] <Darkside> the LNA chip is a PSA4-5043+
[09:05] <fab4space> ok thanks
[09:06] <Darkside> that brings the NF of the system right down
[09:06] <Darkside> which is good
[09:06] <R34lB0rg> exomars launch coming up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdRlu-PYNJA
[09:07] <Darkside> bah where's the countdown??
[09:07] <AndyEsser> I really wish she would stop interrupting people
[09:07] <R34lB0rg> launch should be 10:31
[09:07] <AndyEsser> 9:31 GMT
[09:08] <AndyEsser> (for the majority of people here)
[09:08] <Darkside> AndyEsser: there's audio on that stream?
[09:08] <Darkside> i dont hear any
[09:08] <AndyEsser> yes
[09:08] <AndyEsser> on R34lB0rg's I don't know
[09:08] <AndyEsser> http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/ExoMars/Watch_ExoMars_launch
[09:08] <AndyEsser> sorry, answered too quickly
[09:08] <R34lB0rg> AndyEsser, russian stream for those who don't have adobe flash
[09:08] <Darkside> 23 minutes
[09:09] <Darkside> enough time for me to finish watching mythbusters duct tape special
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[09:28] <mfa298> apparently pink is best, or are they not doing that test.
[09:28] <AndyEsser> I'm so happy I've yet to hear the word nominal in this stream
[09:28] <Darkside> i'm not a fan of the PR lady
[09:29] <AndyEsser> she's a pain that needs to shut up and let the smart people talk
[09:29] <Darkside> i wish the russian stream had a countdown on it
[09:29] <R34lB0rg> you mean the spacex pr lady?
[09:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EDUPIC_Alt1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EDUPIC_Alt1
[09:30] <Darkside> well livesteeam just died for me
[09:30] <Darkside> youtube still going
[09:31] <Darkside> thatr was a long bit of russian
[09:32] <Darkside> woo
[09:32] <Darkside> there we go
[09:32] <Darkside> lol that was one scared bird
[09:32] <AndyEsser> gah, my stream is obviously behind
[09:32] <AndyEsser> damnit
[09:32] <AndyEsser> spoilers!
[09:32] <Darkside> and staight into cloud
[09:33] <R34lB0rg> it's gone - we need satellite images!
[09:33] <R34lB0rg> or hab for that matter
[09:33] <Darkside> now we get the 3d animations
[09:33] <R34lB0rg> lol
[09:34] <Darkside> i prefer the spacex launches with the live video :-)
[09:34] <AndyEsser> I was going to take a page out of SpaceX's book and do 3d animations for my HAB launch... not quite as exciting ;)
[09:36] <R34lB0rg> normalna!
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[09:39] <AndyEsser> my livestream plan would require decent mobile internet in the middle of wales...
[09:40] <mfa298> I'm sure bits of wales have decent mobile coverage.
[09:40] <mfa298> although maybe a bit patchy in the mountains.
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[09:50] <AndyEsser> the bit about 1/2 mile from my house has excellent 4G coverage
[09:50] <AndyEsser> when I popped over to inspect my proposed launch site, I had zero coverage
[09:50] <AndyEsser> although EE says I should be able to get 4G/LTE outdoors
[09:50] <AndyEsser> so might pop along with a dongle and take a look
[09:51] <edmoore> a trick at rocket launchs ites back in the day was to put the dongle in the focus of a dish
[09:51] <edmoore> and point it at the antenna
[09:51] <AndyEsser> interesting
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[09:54] <AndyEsser> nearest EE tower is about 500-800 metres away - although not sure what LOS is like to it
[09:54] <R34lB0rg> good old engineers
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[09:58] <mfa298> failing that stick the dongle and a wifi point on the top of a hill in site of the launch site and mobile mast
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[10:01] <AndyEsser> just looking at EE dongles now - built in data + wifi point for £22/month
[10:01] <AndyEsser> although gives a sodding USB port... not an ethernet port
[10:01] <AndyEsser> *sigh*
[10:02] <AndyEsser> just give me a box with 4G/LTE device, ethernet port and wifi and I'll be happy
[10:02] <Darkside> mikrotik RB912 with a miniPCIe 3g/4G card?
[10:02] <mfa298> I tend to use the Three PAYG+12 and an older usb stick with various routers.
[10:03] <Darkside> i use a RB411 (older variant) in my car
[10:03] <mfa298> I've got something that was bought as a 3G router that just works and also used openwrt on a TPlink 1032nd
[10:03] <AndyEsser> EE atually have a cigarette lighter dongle type device designed for a car
[10:04] <AndyEsser> I have a draytek modem that has support for a usb dongle and then has network ports and wifi (good for laptops + tablet/mobiles)
[10:06] <R34lB0rg> tethered balloons are not legal in uk?
[10:06] <mfa298> if you don't already have a dongle you can pick up older 3G types fairly cheaply - and half the time 3G is faster than my ADSL so I've not seen a huge need for 4G
[10:06] <AndyEsser> only reason I looked specifically for 4G is that EE specialise in it
[10:06] <AndyEsser> so it's often possible within range of their towers to get 4G but no 3G
[10:07] <R34lB0rg> small 3G->WLAN gateway on a tethered balloon
[10:08] <mfa298> I've only realy used Three who did lots of good 3G coverage so I'm not sure the upgrade from 3G to 4G on them is so great.
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[10:14] <fsphil> oh it's backwards Pi day
[10:14] <fsphil> 14.3 :)
[10:15] <SM0ULC-Reb> Wonder who will be the first to fly also using the builtint wifi in the rpi3
[10:15] <fsphil> the small antenna limits its use
[10:16] <fsphil> though that can be modified
[10:16] <Darkside> i havent had much success with it either
[10:17] <SM0ULC-Reb> yes, I though of removing it and put ordinary on it
[10:17] <daveake> AndyEsser: I have the EE 4G square brick with yellow surround. Very good. Much better with weak signals than my previous 3G thing; 20M each way on a good day; battery lasts many more hour than you need for HAB.
[10:17] <fsphil> I wonder if it can be put in master mode
[10:17] <Darkside> SM0ULC-Reb: there does appear to be an empty footprint on the PCB for some sort of test connector
[10:17] <Darkside> you would have to desolder and rotate a 0402 resistor 90 degrees to use it
[10:18] <mfa298> I don't think there's support for master/monitor mode on the Pi3 yet althogh might be one of the many things people are working on
[10:18] <SM0ULC-Reb> fsphil: as an AP you mean?
[10:18] <fsphil> yeah
[10:18] <fsphil> will try that later
[10:18] <SM0ULC-Reb> ah, I thought of search for adhoc mode settings
[10:19] <mfa298> I think it's something that's not yet in the propriety firmware blob, although not looked into it much yet as I've not had a need to.
[10:21] <SM0ULC-Reb> mm, I'll try to check
[10:22] <fsphil> adhoc would be interesting too
[10:26] <SM0ULC-Reb> at least for HAB-stuff. enabling telemetry/ssdv/* to multipoint and also get rid of linklayer problemswith retransmissions
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[11:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03D-9 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=D-9
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[11:38] <AndyEsser> edmoore: Chris has confirmed April 2nd at midday-ish. There's a pub down the road apparently that does good grub
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[11:56] <SA6BSS-Mike> ubseds14 realy picking up some speed, 190kmh , looks like it will cross pacific ocean in 2 days
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[12:19] <edmoore> AndyEsser: i know the one
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[12:23] <AndyEsser> excellent
[12:23] <AndyEsser> should be a good catch up
[12:24] <AndyEsser> I asked what his next plan was and the response was "Yes"
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[12:30] <edmoore> nice to see his teaching methods haven't become any clearer
[12:31] <AndyEsser> I sent him a message saying "Post code?"
[12:31] <AndyEsser> his response:
[12:32] <AndyEsser> "A group of numberes or letters and numbers which are added to a postal address to assist the sorting of mail"
[12:32] <AndyEsser> helpful....
[12:32] <edmoore> i'd have sent you a pastebin link to some python
[12:33] <AndyEsser> hehehe
[12:33] <AndyEsser> nerd humour
[12:33] <AndyEsser> love it
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[12:58] Nick change: T-Hawk -> Timed
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[13:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> .hysplit list
[13:49] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: HYSPLIT available for: 03UBSEDS14, WB8ELK-6, WB8ELK-7
[13:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> could do with SP9UOB-11 having a Hysplit ?
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[14:16] <lz1dev> .hysplit defaults
[14:16] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: HYSPLIT defaults: 03k6rpt-%, aeth%, dl7ad-12, ps-%, sp3osj-12, m0sbu-11, ubseds13, sp9uob-%, wb8elk-6, ubseds14, wb8elk-7
[14:16] <lz1dev> .hysplit add SP9UOB-11
[14:16] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Added 03SP9UOB-11 to defaults
[14:16] <lz1dev> .hysplit run SP9UOB-11
[14:16] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Your job has been added to the queue. Check in a few minutes
[14:20] <AndyEsser> daveake: might want to look at TM'ing PITS: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/edu/teach/activity/pi-in-the-sky-3/?linkId=22251074
[14:21] <AndyEsser> :)
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[14:54] <Ian_> No point in ignoring upu's experience. Get in there and protect your hard won efforts
[14:58] <daveake> Hmm, yeah I wouldn't put it past (the same person who shall remain nameless to protect the guilty) from trying that one
[15:04] <adamgreig> that would be a bit cheeky
[15:04] <adamgreig> surprised trademark office doesn't do at least a google search
[15:07] <AndyEsser> daveake: I'm intrigued now :)
[15:09] <adamgreig> you can look up trademarks pretty easily if you're intrigued
[15:10] <adamgreig> https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00003077350
[15:10] <AndyEsser> Yea, I know
[15:10] <AndyEsser> :P
[15:10] <mfa298> good to see his latest news tells us he's getting new balloons in the first week of november 2013 - I'm guessing as to who registered the trade mark
[15:11] <mfa298> and shock horror from adamgreig's link - not much surprise there.
[15:12] <AndyEsser> LiPo guru's - my LiPo batteries have a third wire (T) which I suspect (from a google search) is attached to an internal thermistor measuring battery temperature
[15:12] <AndyEsser> is there a standard way for measuring this, or is it all specific to each battery make/model
[15:12] <AndyEsser> ?
[15:13] <lz1dev> adamgreig: is there no unregister process?
[15:15] <mfa298> hah, he's also offering a MVT7100 radio scanner with a yagi for loan, I wonder if you can connect that type of yagi to the MVT7100 :p
[15:16] <craag> AndyEsser: There is a standard type that's used I believe - you can get some lipo charger ICs that'll connect directly to it iirc
[15:17] <adamgreig> a lot of RC lipo chargers have a port for connecting to a temp sensor too
[15:17] <adamgreig> but depending on the battery it could also be a special snowflake
[15:17] <adamgreig> sometimes they use diodes or transistor junctions instead of thermistors
[15:17] <adamgreig> all sorts
[15:22] <craag> heh ok
[15:23] <fsphil> lipos really do seem to be a pain in the arse
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[15:32] <craag> Especially if you keep your emf badge in your back pocket ;)
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[15:38] <fsphil> ooch
[15:41] <cm13g09_> craag: LOL
[15:41] <Vaizki> AndyEsser, are you sure it's a temp monitor? You'd normally have 2 wires for that
[15:41] <cm13g09_> Vaizki: they regularly wire it to the -ve of the battery
[15:41] <cm13g09_> from my experience#
[15:42] <Vaizki> hmm.. ok then. And probably a 10k NTC?
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[15:44] Nick change: Timed -> POPMAIL
[15:44] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: well it's labelled T in the datasheet I have, and google search says that 3-wire is usually 0v, +ve, Temp
[15:44] <AndyEsser> 4 wire is for balancing
[15:44] <AndyEsser> or some sort of two-wire bus for chatting to the IC
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[15:45] <Vaizki> well it'll be easy to measure what it is
[15:45] <craag> of course balancing is only required when you have more than 1 cell
[15:46] <craag> in series
[15:46] <AndyEsser> craag: which I don't - which is why I'm guessing it's 3-wire not 4-wire
[15:46] <craag> :)
[15:46] <AndyEsser> I did pass the multimeter over it last night
[15:46] <Vaizki> Yea balancing connector just taps each cell from the series
[15:46] <AndyEsser> T > 0v read the same voltage as +ve > 0v
[15:46] <AndyEsser> but it was like 2am
[15:46] <AndyEsser> didn't think to measure resistance... derp
[15:47] <craag> try googling any model numbers on it and see if you can pull a datasheet
[15:47] <AndyEsser> craag: I've been speaking to the manufacturers direct
[15:47] <AndyEsser> and already have a "datasheet"
[15:47] <Upu> I actually have an e-mail from him saying he'd stop using HAB Supplies name on his site. Dated 1 day before he registered the trademark :/
[15:47] <AndyEsser> I say "datasheet" because it mainly seems to be testing procedures and results :P
[15:47] <craag> still try googling :P
[15:48] <Vaizki> I guess you should compare T>+ve to 0>+ve?
[15:48] <craag> I spent 3 weeks muddling through NDAs and approvals with a particular manufacturer, found a less-redacted datasheet on p12 of google :P
[15:48] <AndyEsser> ha
[15:50] <Vaizki> if the thermistor is connected to -ve then there should be no voltage over T and -ve
[15:51] <Vaizki> unless you ground T of course
[15:51] <Vaizki> Or hmm
[15:51] <Vaizki> I have a +38 fever so :D
[15:52] <AndyEsser> I can't remember which way around I measured it... will double check tonight
[15:52] <AndyEsser> do like that my +3.7v battery was providing +4.06v though
[15:53] Nick change: cm13g09_ -> cm13g09
[15:53] <Vaizki> it's just full and you measured it without load I assume?
[15:53] <craag> 4.06v is a standard full voltage for a lipo
[15:53] <craag> <=4.11v or so
[15:53] <AndyEsser> ah cool :P
[15:53] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: yea without load
[15:54] <AndyEsser> I was more amused by it being fully charged out the box, rather than specifically the voltage
[15:54] <AndyEsser> need to work out an intricate(*) way of measuring voltage over time and temperature of my freezer to see how it behaves with load...
[15:54] <AndyEsser> * Not intricate at all... Move Oscilloscope to Kitchen, hook up the USB interface, run cables out of freezer, voila
[15:58] <craag> eat the ice cream to make space of course
[15:59] <AndyEsser> Not a fan of ice cream so none in there
[15:59] <craag> ah
[15:59] <AndyEsser> although plenty of other nommy goodness :)
[15:59] <craag> accidentally defrost the steaks..
[15:59] <AndyEsser> hehe
[16:00] <Ian_> Politician!
[16:01] <fsphil> mmmm chocolate ice cream
[16:01] <AndyEsser> Cookie Dough
[16:01] <AndyEsser> but melted... so warm ice cream, and solid chunks of cookie dough :)
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[17:06] <AndyEsser> Night all
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[18:05] <ibanezmatt13> evening all. Has there been much research on heat transfer to foil balloons due to solar heating? I've been looking into quantifying the effect but I'm not sure how feasible this is
[18:06] <edmoore> have a look at some of the references in dan bowen's super-pressure talk at the conference a few years ago
[18:06] <edmoore> i'm sure it's feasible
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: consider also heat transfer from the bottom.
[18:07] <ibanezmatt13> ok will do, thanks. I wasn't aware super pressure balloons worked unless they were quite large though?
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: The earth or even clouds can be rather warmer than the sky temperature, and be important
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: they work at any size
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-64/
[18:08] <SpeedEvil> This was a superpressure balloon that lasted >6 months and was a ~60cm foil envelope
[18:08] <ibanezmatt13> I see, I'll have a more in-depth look, cheers
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> What size of baloon/payload/alt are you thinking of
[18:10] <ibanezmatt13> Well I thought it might be a good project for a friend and I to think of some way to get a balloon to float that maybe hasn't been tested before, so I was looking at being able to see what sort of heat transfers we'd be dealing with. As for payload size I haven't given it too much thought
[18:10] <ibanezmatt13> I was thinking it would have to be similar to the B-payloads, really light. But like I say I've not given too much thought just yet. Just looking at feasibility
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[18:14] <edmoore> a fun project for you iuw something like that and habby
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[18:14] <edmoore> model why ascent rate increases a bit with altitude
[18:14] <edmoore> on latex habs
[18:14] <edmoore> and why it seems to do it more so with hydrogen than helium
[18:14] <Laurenceb_> extrapolating heating effects from Leos foil might give inaccurate results, as he had cracks in the foil which made it act like an idea black body
[18:15] <ibanezmatt13> I might try that edmoore, sounds interesting
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[18:15] <Laurenceb_> from the party balloons you seem to get a few hundred m high float during the day, maybe 160m on average at 9500m float, so its trivial to work out heating from that
[18:17] <ibanezmatt13> hm ok, I'll bear that in mind. Most of the theory I read up on seemed only applicable to black bodies anyway, so I wasn't sure how applicable they were
[18:20] <edmoore> if you do get a model for it (i suspect it's mostly thermal) then you can contribute that into the predictor which I think would be quite appreciated
[18:21] <ibanezmatt13> Well I'll give it a try :)
[18:22] <Laurenceb_> yeah I suspect the internal gas is superheated at altitude
[18:24] <Laurenceb_> looking at hydrogen versus helium might be interesting, due to monatomic versus diatomic and expansion cooling effects
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> It would be interesting to put the payload inside the balloon and measure that
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[19:35] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD9DBI-11 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD9DBI-11
[19:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BENNY_1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BENNY_1
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[19:57] Nick change: jarod2 -> jarod
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[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:05] <MikeUoN> hi LL how are you doing?
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> OK, bit of a cold it seems, but OK
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> and with you?
[20:07] <MikeUoN> good, thanks. :)
[20:07] <MikeUoN> might plot osme data from yesterday's flight this evening or tomorrow
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> :) nice
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> did some GPS parsing today
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> well, parsing
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> trying around with strtol
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[20:11] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/ckyrAul.jpg clean your yard
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> aperture science
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[20:16] <MikeUoN> i feel like im missing something obvious here
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> A couple of legs at least
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[21:26] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/UyVJAqr.png <- absorption coefficient of a foil balloon with crack aluminization versus crack surface fraction
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> *cracked
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> drool -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU7DrufbZks
[21:34] <SM0ULC-Reb> :)
[21:38] <SM0ULC-Reb> Laurenceb_: the mcHf is also nice
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[21:43] <Babs> Evening all and long time no see. I finally have my boards constructed but something a little weird is happening. Basically, none of the delay functions seem to be working once the code is burnt to the board
[21:44] <Babs> code here http://pastie.org/10759917
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[21:44] <Babs> e.g. in line 230, I've put in a deliberately long delay and a line print "Babs"
[21:44] <Babs> on the serial monitor, its definitely looping through the code
[21:45] <Babs> but seems to do it around 3 times a second rather than going through the loop and delaying it
[21:45] <Babs> its basically causing issues when i poll the ublox, because the program isn't giving it sufficient time to respond and therefore not picking up the full string it send back
[21:45] <Babs> am i missing something obvious?
[21:52] <fsphil> possibly: http://playground.arduino.cc/Code/PwmFrequency
[21:52] <fsphil> "changing the PWM frequency changes the Atmega's timers and disrupts the normal operation of many functions that rely on time (delay(), millis(), Servo library)."
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[21:54] <Babs> thanks fsphil
[21:55] <Babs> i don't think i'm doing anything particularly unusual with the code
[21:57] <Babs> i've had a form of this code working with another board so i'm thinking it might be something suspect with my circuit design
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> btw exomars opened the solar panels and seems to work :)
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> https://twitter.com/esaoperations/status/709493863166119936
[22:01] <SM0ULC-Reb> :)
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[22:05] <Babs> bizarre. if i jack up the delay to 60000ms (in the code anyway) it seems to just about drop the delay down to a second
[22:05] <Babs> ie I can correct it by multiplying all of the delays by a couple of orders of magnitude which corrects the problem, but doesn't tell me why its doing it
[22:06] <Babs> sort of unsatisfying solution!
[22:06] <adamgreig> setPwmFrequency(MTX2B_PIN,1);
[22:06] <adamgreig> as fsphil said
[22:07] <Babs> line underneath
[22:08] <Babs> * component of the NTX2B transmission that I need to do more research into *
[22:08] <Babs> arf
[22:08] <Babs> well, at least i spotted the source of my own problem, even if i couldn't recognise it in the end
[22:08] <Babs> what does that line do?
[22:08] <Babs> (ps thanks adamgreig)
[22:09] <adamgreig> fsphil spotted it
[22:09] <adamgreig> it changes the pwm frequency, but that also changes how delay functions work (or can do)
[22:09] <adamgreig> so might well be the cause of your problem
[22:12] <Babs> great, thanks guys will look into it
[22:12] <Babs> also explains why the blink sketch delay did work on the same board
[22:12] <Babs> (ie the delay in the blink sketch)
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[22:16] <fsphil> arduino's delay() function assumes one of the timer interrupts is going at a particular speed. setPwmFrequency() changes that
[22:22] <Babs> thanks fsphil
[22:22] <Babs> so it should be just a simple multiplier then i think
[22:23] <Babs> the weird thing is that i've used that bit of code before and had no problems
[22:23] <Babs> this board i haven't hooked up the MTX2B yet but i assume as its passive to the atmega it shouldnt really affect things
[22:24] <Babs> i guess if i solder it in and then the program moves glaically i've sort of got my answer there
[22:24] <Babs> *glacially
[22:24] <fsphil> it won't be that
[22:25] <fsphil> the only things you have there that can alter delay() is the setPwmFreq call and the softwareserial module
[22:25] <Babs> yes, i'm sort of scratching around for answers
[22:25] <fsphil> very simple to work out which one is your problem
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[22:25] <Babs> let me have a look further back in code history
[22:35] <Babs> found it. changed from arduino pin 5 to pin 9 sometime back to make the revised board layout easier
[22:36] <Babs> if i switch the pin back to 5 timings work as before
[22:36] <fsphil> must be a different timer behind the scenes
[22:36] <Babs> thanks guys, you are brilliantly helpful
[22:36] <fsphil> you just happen to switch to the one behind delay()
[22:36] <Babs> damn this is tricky sometimes
[22:36] <Babs> satisfying and frustrating in equal measures
[22:37] <fsphil> one of the flaws with arduino hiding all the details
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[22:38] <fsphil> potential aurora visible tonight. shame I've work in the morning. boo
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[23:55] <Laurenceb_> anyone here used qt creator? http://i.imgur.com/Xac5Imk.png
[00:00] --- Tue Mar 15 2016