highaltitude.log.20160311

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[01:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03fiesta_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=fiesta_chase
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[02:16] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 0315 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
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[03:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ikhwan_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ikhwan_chase
[04:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BMW123_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BMW123_chase
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[07:23] <SM0ULC-Reb> morrn
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[08:33] <Vaizki> must be fun cleaning up rocket poop from the barge
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[08:51] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SD4 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SD4
[08:57] <AndyEsser> morning
[08:57] Action: fsphil startup...
[08:57] Action: AndyEsser boot process failed - require coffee
[08:57] <fsphil> should finish around home time
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[09:45] <habby> In case anyone cares.... with DGPS lock ... RISHTI max V Speed at 31762.3m altitude was -80.3 m/s = -179.6259843 mph 14 seconds after burst thanks to daveake for the pointer to gps.txt in PITS
[09:46] <daveake> s/DGPS/GPS/
[09:46] <daveake> DGPS is Differential GPS where you set up a fixed station for use as a reference
[09:47] <habby> What does s mean, please?
[09:47] <daveake> substitute
[09:47] <daveake> I mean, it's GPS not DGPS
[09:48] <habby> You are absolutely right. Apologies, I misread that column!
[09:49] <habby> So I assume I refer to that as 'terminal velocity'?
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[10:26] <hkLo1> dear everybody. we had two rather nice solar balloon flights with lucky recoveries. but both times our raspi with pi-camera stopped working shortly after the start. any ideas?
[10:26] <hkLo1> can it get too hot for the pi-cam in the box?
[10:27] <AndyEsser> more likely too cold, no?
[10:28] <mfa298> may depend on which Pi you're using and how high it's going. Some of the Pis can generate a lot of heat
[10:28] <mfa298> did the pi keep running (i.e. just the camera stopped) or did it all stop working
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[10:29] <daveake> The pi cam stopped, or the pi ?
[10:29] <hkLo1> no. the box is 4 cm styrofoam. the lowest temperature reading is 4 °C during landing.
[10:30] <daveake> Low isn't a problem for the camera - I've used them outside the payload with no issues
[10:30] <hkLo1> both the camera and the pi seam to have worked until the end (leds on)
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[10:31] <hkLo1> pi is model a...
[10:31] <daveake> Now I'm confused. You said "both times our raspi with pi-camera stopped working shortly after the start" and now "both the camera and the pi seam to have worked until the end (leds on)"
[10:31] <daveake> What actually didn't work?
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[10:32] <hkLo1> well there is just no data on the sd card. so i assume the camera stopped working even if the led is still tured on.
[10:32] <daveake> card full? card came loose ?
[10:33] <nick_> What error/warnings did your software give you?
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[10:34] <hkLo1> difficult to say. after opening the card was in normal position. would the pi and the camera have leds turned on without sd card
[10:34] <edmoore> habby: infact you can't call that terminal velocity
[10:34] <hkLo1> card mostly empty (54 gb)
[10:34] <edmoore> terminal velocity is your velocity once you're in equilibrium
[10:35] <edmoore> you will see looking at v_speed vs time graph that you quite quickly decelerate once the chute has inflated and got a chance to bring you to equilibrium
[10:36] <hkLo1> last time there was no error reported at all. this time we didn't check yet.
[10:36] <hkLo1> is there a special log for the pi-camera? or fort the python script?
[10:37] <edmoore> so to be clear terminal velocity is the velocity at which force = drag in some fluid. If you want to actually measure it, one way would be to put an accelerometer on the payload and measure your velocity when the accelerometer measures 1G (and not greater or less than 1 G) after burst - it'll be a few seconds after burst that that will happen - because when
[10:37] <edmoore> the accelerometer sees 1G then it means the drag force is equal to the 1G of gravity
[10:38] <edmoore> immediately after burst it'll measure 0G because it's effectively in free-fall then. I bit like when you drive fast over a dump or short bridge and feel it in your stomach as you go briefly weightless
[10:38] <R34lB0rg> or in a rollercoaster
[10:38] <hkLo1> this is the camera: http://www.arducam.com/raspberry-pi-camera-rev-c-improves-optical-performance/
[10:39] <AndyEsser> edmoore: I love those bridges
[10:39] <edmoore> and then build back up to 1G or even go over 1G as the parachute has to get rid of any extra momentum the payload might have built up whilst the parachute was still deploying
[10:41] <hkLo1> and one other question. if you would have one balloon and only one possible flight left and you need the footage for a well announced exhibition. what camera solution would you choose ;o)
[10:41] <habby> hkLo1 - we had two cameras, both on the outside of the box and they worked fine all the way up and down.
[10:42] <habby> Thanks edmoore, so I'd explain to my students that we didn't reach terminal velocity because the parachute deployed before it could get there.
[10:42] <habby> So, it is just a MAx V
[10:43] <hkLo1> habby: thanks. where both the cameras and the pi outside or just the camera boards?
[10:43] <habby> Just the cameras. The Pis were all snug and cozy
[10:43] <Matt_PrjHet> What cameras did you use habby?
[10:43] <habby> Raspberry Pi
[10:44] <hkLo1> thanks. two model a raspis
[10:44] <hkLo1> ?
[10:44] <daveake> hkLo1: I've used Pi cameras inside and outside payloads with no issues. Only time one ever stopped taking images was when the SD card came loose :/. I suggest you look at your Python script.
[10:44] <habby> Two model A+ cameras, PITS board + Sense Hat + External temp sensor
[10:45] <Matt_PrjHet> Oh cool, pics looked great. Especially that snowy one.
[10:45] <nick_> edmoore: would you be interested in getting a UKHASnet node set up at OxHack?
[10:45] <habby> They seemed to stop recording briefly at the start of the descent and I don't think anything liked the violence of that burst!
[10:46] <edmoore> habby: yes, in as much as the terminal velocity would be higher without the parachute
[10:46] <edmoore> nick_: yes sure
[10:46] <edmoore> and also joining oxhack probably
[10:46] <edmoore> that's soprt of what the first 5 mins of my parachute talk was getting at
[10:47] <hkLo1> thanks dave. we testet the script for hours on the ground. no failure. it does film for 10 minutes and then two pictures. (even on a record player)
[10:47] <edmoore> that the important thing is to realise that a parachute system is in equilibrium and the parachute size is a knob we can twiddle to set the velocity at which that equilibrium happens
[10:49] <nick_> We might get a few people together sometime around Easter (that's in a few weeks, right?) to get a demo system set up.
[10:49] <habby> Thanks Matt_PrjHet, we have more to come. Damn this teaching thing! It's getting in the way of my finding cool photos!
[10:50] <habby> Thanks edmoore, I'm gong to ask the Physics department here to explain all that to me with crayon drawings so I can undertand it!
[10:51] <habby> I'm going to get the students to watch your Youtube video, too
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[10:55] <BARC> morning all
[10:56] <BARC> thanks again for anyone listening in yesterday early on
[10:57] <Matt_PrjHet> adamgreig You're not around (Cambridge) Wed/Thurs are you?
[10:57] <edmoore> cool. I laboured the point torturously in the talk but dimensional analysis but I think it's a really useful thing to drum into students
[10:57] <edmoore> it's a powerful technique for sanity-checking your physics
[10:57] <edmoore> and that's a nice simple example to drum it home
[11:03] <nick_> Unless you're a string theorist....
[11:06] <hkLo1> so you would think the original pi camera is the safest camera to use on high altitude balloons?
[11:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ORCA - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ORCA
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[13:12] <fab4space> yes hkLo1 this is very safe camera for HAB
[13:12] <fab4space> very robust
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[13:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ORCA_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ORCA_chase
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[13:38] <MarkIreland> On #habhub - what is the irc code for approving flight docs?
[13:38] <AndyEsser> needs an admin to do it
[13:43] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP9SKP - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9SKP
[13:47] Nick change: DL7AD1 -> DL7AD
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[13:57] <craag> Only 100 tickets left in this batch for EMF! https://twitter.com/emfcamp/status/708247504035422208
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[13:57] <craag> ANother 20% will be on sale nearer the event, but aren't expected to last long.
[13:57] <Matt_Project_HeT> We're doing some PiTS testing if we pop up on the map.
[13:58] <AndyEsser> craag: gah
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[13:59] <AndyEsser> do they run ethernet cables to each pitch?
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[14:00] <craag> No, the site has datenklos
[14:00] <AndyEsser> ?
[14:00] <craag> which are repurposed portaloos
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[14:01] <craag> containing mains power distros, ethernet switches and an AP or two
[14:01] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[14:01] <craag> You can then run your ethernet cable up to them, and people come round with keys and connect any loose calbes
[14:01] <AndyEsser> o sweet :)
[14:01] <AndyEsser> that's pretty cool
[14:02] <craag> You can see the one we used in 2014 in the background of https://wiki.emfcamp.org/w/images/f/f0/Village-HABville.jpeg
[14:02] <AndyEsser> not far then :P
[14:02] <craag> Nope we set up nearby
[14:02] <AndyEsser> Are pitches assigned - or do you just try and make space with your friends?
[14:02] <craag> made running mains to each tent easier :)
[14:02] <AndyEsser> hehehe
[14:02] <AndyEsser> I love that running mains to the tent needs to be a thing ;)
[14:03] <craag> it's so good being able to charge phone/camera/laptop overnight
[14:03] <craag> (and your badge every ~4h or whatever it needed)
[14:03] <AndyEsser> badge?
[14:03] <craag> So you can pick a site for a 'village'
[14:04] <gonzo_> my tent has a spacific flappy thing for feeding power in
[14:04] <craag> which sort of reserves some space by gentlemen's agreement
[14:04] <craag> and then within that we tried to plan layout
[14:04] <craag> tents round the outside facing in
[14:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ORCAsss_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ORCAsss_chase
[14:04] <craag> marquees + open space in the middle
[14:04] <AndyEsser> ah cool
[14:05] <gonzo_> it's not uncommon for us to run power into tents at festivals. even mains gas on one occasion
[14:05] <craag> the badge is always an electronic thing
[14:05] <AndyEsser> interesting - not an RFID type thing?
[14:05] <craag> last year it was an atmel arm thing with large screen
[14:05] <AndyEsser> sweet
[14:05] <craag> terrible battery life
[14:05] <AndyEsser> right, so it's gimmicky thing?
[14:06] <gonzo_> the idea (intentiuon) is that it';s a dev board to take away and tat with
[14:06] <craag> https://badge.emfcamp.org/wiki/Main_Page
[14:06] <AndyEsser> yea, gotcha - sounds pretty cool
[14:06] <craag> I've heard this year's one is going to actually be really cool
[14:07] <AndyEsser> was there no EMF2015?
[14:07] <craag> and easier to program...
[14:07] <craag> no - it's all volunteer-run
[14:07] <craag> and they knackered themselves in 2014
[14:07] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[14:08] <craag> so wanted a year off
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[14:08] <craag> but now it's BAAAACK
[14:08] <AndyEsser> wooo
[14:08] <AndyEsser> well look forward to it
[14:08] <AndyEsser> sadly website doesn't take paypal so can't buy my ticket just yet
[14:09] <craag> :/
[14:10] <craag> I am impressed how painless the ticket buying was
[14:10] <gonzo_> did you do txfr or dd?
[14:10] <craag> dd
[14:10] <AndyEsser> serves me right for forgetting about EMF this month when I got paid and spunking away £200 on a spa day for the gf
[14:11] <craag> hah woops
[14:11] <craag> probably the right choice though!
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[14:11] <AndyEsser> craag: considering I'm taking all her stuff back to hers tonight, not so much ;)
[14:13] <craag> ah
[14:13] <gonzo_> must give john a kick to get his ticket. As he doesn;t run his life at at internet pace. So he may miss the boat
[14:14] <craag> yes good plan gonzo_
[14:15] <AndyEsser> "internet pace"
[14:15] <AndyEsser> isn't that just... the speed of life
[14:15] <AndyEsser> who hasn't upgraded yet?!
[14:15] <craag> john lives in shropshire
[14:15] <craag> I don't think internet is a thing there yet
[14:16] <gonzo_> he's less online than we were in the 80's
[14:17] <AndyEsser> Ah yes
[14:17] <AndyEsser> I was visiting the Colonies yesterday (read: Wales) and I had no mobile phone reception and really terrible internet speed
[14:17] <AndyEsser> it was painful
[14:17] <gonzo_> they have had to trunk in a wireless isp to the farm. And his place in wales, has about 2Mb to the whole exchange. So BT can only offer dial up speeds (and old dial up at that)
[14:18] <gonzo_> he just about gets gsm coverage, but that is with a gateway box up on a mast
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[14:19] <edmoore> AndyEsser: sounds wonderful
[14:20] <edmoore> a kindle full of books
[14:20] <edmoore> a bottle of sherry
[14:20] <edmoore> a pad of paper and an old casio scientific calculator
[14:20] <edmoore> i'd be self-sufficient for weeks
[14:22] <gonzo_> blue wode on face, animal skins for clothes and coaxial ethernet
[14:22] <AndyEsser> edmoore: I keep toying with the idea of booking a week off, renting a cabin in wales with no internet, no phone reception, and just finally sitting down and reading, and thinking, and things
[14:22] <AndyEsser> but I remember I'm a dick, and would get bored in 24 hours
[14:24] <gonzo_> or a rucksack, tarp and dartmoor
[14:25] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: o0o0
[14:25] <AndyEsser> wilderness camping is something I want to do - but few places you can do it still
[14:26] <edmoore> i'm tempted by that too
[14:26] <edmoore> a sort of monastic retreat for nerds
[14:27] <AndyEsser> yes
[14:27] <AndyEsser> Pilgrimage of Knoweldge
[14:27] <AndyEsser> err
[14:27] Action: AndyEsser takes a dictionary with him
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[14:30] <gonzo_> be cheeky and stealth (ie. where you shouldn't be) camp
[14:30] <AndyEsser> but that's naughty!
[14:31] <gonzo_> I'm off to dartmoor next weekend. though we don't always stick to the places where camping is allowed. But leave no trace and no-one is the wiser
[14:31] <gonzo_> the worst that can happen is you get told to move
[14:31] <AndyEsser> "I've wild camped in Snowdonia plenty. As long as you pitch your tent late on, strike camp early and leave no trace, you'll be fine.
[14:32] <AndyEsser> If you rock up with family tent, stereo, barbecue and volleyball net, you might get some unwanted attention and moved on."
[14:32] <AndyEsser> heh
[14:32] <AndyEsser> I should dick out my tent, need to see what condition it's in
[14:32] <AndyEsser> o ffs
[14:32] <AndyEsser> dig*
[14:32] <AndyEsser> I need coffee
[14:32] <fsphil> or less coffee
[14:33] <AndyEsser> only had one today
[14:33] <AndyEsser> definitely more
[14:35] <gonzo_> I use just a tarp and bivi bag. All my tents are too big for hiking
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[14:36] <gonzo_> I did have a little one on order. But the seller arsed about for ages, then just did a refund. then immediatly put them back upo for sale at 50-% higher proice
[14:40] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: I have a small 1 man tent that isn't too bad to strap to the bottom of a rucksack for hikes
[14:40] <AndyEsser> then sleeping bag on top, and voila
[14:48] <Matt_Project_HeT> Just putting ourselves on the map/ssdv to test.
[14:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PrjHeT - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PrjHeT
[15:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PrJHeT_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PrJHeT_chase
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[15:07] <Matt_Project_HeT> Hmmm.. Can't get the chase car to come up. Phil's PrJHet_chase (Android) is up. But PrjHet_Matt from the Habhub app... isn't.
[15:08] <Matt_Project_HeT> Anyone else have trouble with the ios app?
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[15:15] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 0312 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
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[15:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HAPROS - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HAPROS
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[16:03] Nick change: T-Eagle -> T-Hawk
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[16:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Matt_PrjHet, Try cutting the length of the string down, there was a limit at one time as people were putting sentiences up!
[16:46] <Matt_Project_HeT> Now set to PrjHeTMK
[16:48] <Matt_Project_HeT> No sign yet. I hit the Tracking button but it doens't ever bring up location data. (inside or out.)
[16:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HAPROS_TEST_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HAPROS_TEST_chase
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[17:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Kb5w-1_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Kb5w-1_chase
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[18:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03y_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=y_chase
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[19:04] <SpeedEvil> http://worlddroneprix.live/video?id=4
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[19:14] <MikeUoN> cool link SpeedEvil
[19:14] <MikeUoN> any idea when the races start?
[19:14] <gb73d> watching
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> No
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> It seems very dysfunctional
[19:16] <MikeUoN> agreed
[19:17] <MikeUoN> theres no one sitting in the stands
[19:31] <gb73d> http://www.pindex.com/
[19:39] <MikeUoN> the livestream has ended already :Z
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[20:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG7FIH - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG7FIH
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[20:56] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD9DBI-11 after 035 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD9DBI-11
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[21:23] <Upu> http://www.mds975.co.uk/Content/george_dobbs_trf_radio.html
[21:26] <prog> I had that kind of books when I was 5
[21:26] <prog> learned by heart until I could build them
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[21:30] <Upu> never saw that one sadly
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[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> interesting
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> the *real* breadboard :)
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[22:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Interesting launch height for UON1, there making sure they get over 30Km I see!
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:44] <MikeUoN> LOL
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> how comes the smallest altitude on the record list is 8 m?
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> comedy reasons?
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> Was that one failed launch where the balloon wasn't adequately filled but seemed to be due to aero lift in wind.
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> IIRC
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
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[00:00] --- Sat Mar 12 2016