highaltitude.log.20160304

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[00:20] <hosler> i cant get gqrx to see my sdr under linux :(
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[02:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD9DBI-11 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD9DBI-11
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[02:46] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
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[04:00] <Evidlo> Can anyone familiar with radios tell me if this design is sane? http://imgur.com/O3ZUSvZ
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[05:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VOPSEN - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VOPSEN
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[06:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03WB8ELK-6 after 0314 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-6
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[07:05] <WB8ELK> Skytracker 5 (WB8ELK-6) has just reawakened over the Baltic Sea near Gdansk and is now heading towards Sweden.
[07:06] <lz1dev> .aprs info WB8ELK-6
[07:06] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: 03WB8ELK-6 is near 03Baltic Sea 10(55.1025,19.497) at 037917 meters - 12http://aprs.fi/info/WB8ELK-6
[07:06] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Path: 03WB8ELK-6>APELK0 via 03WIDE2-1,qAR,SP2GG-4
[07:06] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Symbol: 03/O Speed: 0337kmph Course: 03349°
[07:06] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Comment: 0310 3.50 3.44 -8 7917 44
[07:06] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Telemetry: 03Ch1 10350 03Ch2 10344 03Ch3 108 03Ch4 1010 03Ch5 101
[07:06] <WB8ELK> For those in Sweden....in addition to the 144.800 MHz APRS frequency, it also transmits on 144.340 MHz FM APRS about 10 seconds after the primary APRS transmission.
[07:09] <lz1dev> WB8ELK: you should resend the telemetry configurations, so that we get telemetry on the tracker
[07:10] <WB8ELK> I was wondering why the telemetry wasn't showing up. I'll try that.
[07:11] <SA6BSS-Mike> I soon going to work, but I set up a sdr receiver and remote in during day and listen in
[07:14] <WB8ELK> Hi Mike...it sppears that it will be in range of your location in about three hours...heading towards you. 144.340 MHz FM APRS
[07:14] <WB8ELK> and also 144.800 MHz APRS
[07:15] <WB8ELK> OK...I resent the telemetry parameters to APRS.FI...did that make a difference in HabHub telemetry?
[07:17] <WB8ELK> Not sure how to send the telemetry configurations to Habhub however?
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[07:19] <lz1dev> .aprs info WB8ELK-6
[07:19] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: 03WB8ELK-6 is near 03Baltic Sea 10(55.17866,19.47333) at 037987 meters - 12http://aprs.fi/info/WB8ELK-6
[07:19] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Path: 03WB8ELK-6>APELK0 via 03WIDE2-1,qAR,SP2GG-4
[07:19] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Symbol: 03/O Speed: 0341kmph Course: 03352°
[07:19] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Comment: 0309 3.60 3.52 -9 7987 57
[07:19] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Telemetry: 03Ch1 10360 03Ch2 10352 03Ch3 109 03Ch4 109 03Ch5 101
[07:19] <lz1dev> hmm
[07:20] <WB8ELK> Ch1 is 3.60 volts Solar panel....Ch2 is 3.52 volts LiPo battery...Ch3 is -9 deg C (have a small bug in my telemetry code there)...Ch4 is number of satellites...Ch5 is GPS Lock status
[07:21] <lz1dev> yeah it's not picking them up for some reason
[07:22] <WB8ELK> Do I have to send the telemetry parameters directly to HabHub somehow...or does it pick it up from APRS.FI?
[07:22] <lz1dev> no, you send the via aprs
[07:22] <lz1dev> the=them
[07:23] <WB8ELK> I just resent the parameters to APRS.FI so maybe it takes a few minutes to be picked up by Habhub?
[07:24] <WB8ELK> The telemetry charts work on APRS.FI....I have the fields encoded in BASE 91 notation like they suggest...not sure why Spacnear not picking it up...I noticed that earlier and was wondering why
[07:25] <lz1dev> nope, the EQNS part was not picked up
[07:25] <lz1dev> wierd
[07:26] <WB8ELK> This is what I sent to APRS.FI: PARM.Solar,Batt,Temp,Sats,GpsLock
[07:26] <WB8ELK> UNIT.Volts,Volts,Deg.C
[07:26] <lz1dev> oh
[07:26] <WB8ELK> EQNS.0,0.01,0,0,0.01,0,0,1,0
[07:26] <lz1dev> i see, you have an extra whitespace at the end for EQNS.0,0.01,0,0,0.01,0,0,1,0
[07:27] <WB8ELK> Maybe that is it...I'll try it again.
[07:29] <lz1dev> .aprs info WB8ELK-6
[07:29] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: 03WB8ELK-6 is near 03Baltic Sea 10(55.22783,19.4675) at 038001 meters - 12http://aprs.fi/info/WB8ELK-6
[07:29] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Path: 03WB8ELK-6>APELK0 via 03WIDE2-1,qAR,SR4NSZ
[07:29] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Symbol: 03/O Speed: 0341kmph Course: 03359°
[07:29] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Comment: 0300 3.64 3.58 -8 68
[07:29] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Telemetry: 03Solar 103.64 Volts 03Batt 103.58 Volts 03Temp 108 Deg.C 03Sats 100 03GpsLock 100
[07:29] <lz1dev> ^ works
[07:30] <WB8ELK> Great....
[07:30] <WB8ELK> The extra whitespace was the problem.
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[07:31] <WB8ELK> And now I can see all my graphs on Tracker page too.
[07:32] <lz1dev> gonna fix the library so whitespaces don't cause problems in the future
[07:33] <WB8ELK> Is there a way to select which telemetry fields get plotted at the bottom of the Tracker page instead of all of them?
[07:35] <lz1dev> there isn't
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[07:45] <Vaizki> WB8ELK, you could try https://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/WB8ELK-6/de6fd4ed3b218fd8a99406a3b1d8d3aa
[07:46] <Vaizki> hmm ok shows really old data
[07:52] <WB8ELK> It is picking up my testing from several months ago but not seeing the current data for some reason
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[08:42] <Rebounder> possible to rerun the hysplit for ELK?
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[10:31] <Upu> .hysplit
[10:31] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: HYSPLIT available for: 03DL7AD-12, SP9UOB-11, WB8ELK-6
[10:31] <Upu> .hysplit run WB8ELK-6
[10:31] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Your job has been added to the queue. Check in a few minutes
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[10:37] <Upu> in for a very cold and lonely trip I suspect
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[10:46] <Haxxa> How pricey is satellite just for position of an object in terms of hardware and access?
[10:46] <Haxxa> say ping once a day
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[10:46] <adamgreig> rockblock is something like £8/mo and 15p/message and £200 for the radio
[10:47] <AndyEsser> welcome back adamgreig - how was your holiday?
[10:47] <adamgreig> great thankyou
[10:47] <adamgreig> very cold
[10:47] <AndyEsser> Go anywhere exciting? (I think I asked before but can't remember the answer)
[10:47] <adamgreig> amusing to be unable to brush teeth because my water bottle had frozen solid and my toothpaste had frozen solid and my hands were frozen solid
[10:47] <AndyEsser> hahaha
[10:47] <adamgreig> i was in ladakh, which is northern india, in the himalayas
[10:47] <AndyEsser> O cool
[10:48] <AndyEsser> Not launch any HABs whilst you were there?
[10:49] <adamgreig> I was in the "hemis high altitude national park"
[10:49] <adamgreig> but it was not a great spot for HABs
[10:50] <adamgreig> on account of being incredibly mountainous terrain
[10:50] <adamgreig> and also the cold
[10:50] <AndyEsser> Indeed
[10:50] <adamgreig> tying knots in ~0C for a UK winter launch is bad enough
[10:50] <adamgreig> -18C would have been.. worse
[10:50] <adamgreig> did you launch anything yet?
[10:51] <AndyEsser> Nope - but pretty much wrapped up my circuit design - still on schedule for an April launch (wind dependent)
[10:51] <adamgreig> nice
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[10:53] <AndyEsser> just need to switch out the RTC I'm using on the diagram, check it all over
[10:53] <AndyEsser> consult you about some maths for resistor values
[10:53] <AndyEsser> and then layout the PCB for sending off to fab
[10:53] <adamgreig> cool
[10:54] <AndyEsser> it's annoying that your diagram for calculating the resistor values for the TX shift on the NTX2 is in the archives, and not on the 'current' version of the page
[10:54] Nick change: DL7AD1 -> DL7AD
[10:55] <adamgreig> so change it
[10:55] <adamgreig> it's a wiki :P
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[10:59] <Upu> yeah we probably need to move that back, the fad of PWM has passed
[11:06] <adamgreig> these days I use an actual DAC to drive the mtx2
[11:06] <adamgreig> advantage there is I can do proper sine waves too and thus afsk fm lol
[11:06] <mattbrejza> pwm sine works fine too :P
[11:07] <fsphil> you could do voice FM too :)
[11:08] <adamgreig> I did :P
[11:08] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: I still don't feel comfortable rewriting pages on the wiki
[11:08] <AndyEsser> :P
[11:08] <adamgreig> https://github.com/cuspaceflight/m2-electronics/blob/master/m2r/firmware/audio_data.h
[11:08] <mattbrejza> tbh all you need to do is copy and paste the old resistor page into a new document called ntx2_resistors
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[11:13] <AndyEsser> *sigh* I hate this wiki software
[11:13] <AndyEsser> ha
[11:17] <AndyEsser> https://ukhas.org.uk/ntx2_resistor_calculation
[11:17] <AndyEsser> boom
[11:18] <nick_> I quite like the git + markdown solution to wikis.
[11:19] <AndyEsser> I'm boring and lazy and like WYSIWYG - just because then I don't have to try and remember markdown - but I do see its merits
[11:19] <nick_> Although of coure things like where to store images pose a question still.
[11:19] <AndyEsser> it was more trying to work out how to create a new page I had the issue iwth :P
[11:20] <nick_> I think of markdown as WYSIWYG, you just have to squint a little.
[11:20] <nick_> (or think in html)
[11:20] <AndyEsser> ha
[11:20] <AndyEsser> it's nothing like html :P
[11:20] <AndyEsser> I'm sorry but *My Header* isn't like html
[11:20] <AndyEsser> :P
[11:20] <nick_> Markdown really is a person friendly mapping of html.
[11:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-11 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
[11:21] <AndyEsser> however, I appear to be in a very argumentative mood today due to shitstorm at work so I apologies in advance if I seem... abrasive today :)
[11:22] <daey> nick_ doesnt even see the code anymore
[11:22] <nick_> So, for example, multiple lines starting like "* x\n* y\n* z\n" (or similar) get mapped to "<ul><li>x</li><li>y</li><li>z</li></ul>"
[11:22] <daey> all he sees are red ads, blue ads, pink ads
[11:23] <AndyEsser> :P
[11:23] <nick_> And similarly there are mappings for <hX>, <a> <img>, that are just more human friendly.
[11:24] <fsphil> humans should be more machine friendly
[11:24] <AndyEsser> ^^
[11:24] Action: nick_ points out he's fluent in the IPbus protocol.
[11:25] <nick_> Actually, I'm kinda rusty now, as I worked out trying to write a packet off the top of my head.
[11:28] <nick_> But I spent a few days about a year ago reading raw UDP packets to debug an issue with a detector using the IPbus protocol (which allows you to remotely read and write registers in an FPGA over a network)
[11:29] <AndyEsser> dude... wireshark
[11:30] <nick_> Yeah, but wireshark doesn't know what's in the bytes the UDP packet is transporting.
[11:32] <zyp> unless it knows the protocol and got a dissector for it
[11:36] <nick_> (Un?)forutnately only a small number of particle physicists use the protocol.
[11:36] <AndyEsser> yes, but then you can just grab the payload rather than the whole packet and then understand the IPbus bit :)
[11:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-12 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-12
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[12:11] <edmoore> i agree with the markdown html mapping
[12:11] <edmoore> and also like md+git
[12:11] <edmoore> my 'static website manager' which is now apparently fashionable again is just a makefile that uses pandoc
[12:14] <zyp> nick_, writing a wireshark dissector for a custom protocol isn't very hard, and tends to pay for it self if you have to read through a lot of packets
[12:14] <zyp> itself*
[12:16] <AndyEsser> ^
[12:16] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-13 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-13
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[12:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RISHTI - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RISHTI
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[12:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC1DFW - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC1DFW
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[13:30] <AndyEsser> anyone able to provide me some bash assistance? It's not HAB related
[13:32] <edmoore> don't ask to ask just ask
[13:33] <edmoore> bash is fair game here
[13:33] <AndyEsser> http://pastebin.com/JUY9852B
[13:34] <AndyEsser> I get this as a result from a command
[13:34] <AndyEsser> I just want the "i-204bcba8" bit
[13:34] <AndyEsser> (I can strip the quote marks myself, it's more the grabbing it out of that format bit I'm struggling with)
[13:35] <lz1dev> does the ID always include "i-" ?
[13:35] <AndyEsser> yes
[13:36] <lz1dev> right
[13:36] <lz1dev> then just do: grep -oE "[0-9a-f]{8}"
[13:38] <AndyEsser> tada
[13:38] <AndyEsser> thanks :)
[13:38] <russss> AndyEsser: this is quite useful for parsing json on the command line: https://stedolan.github.io/jq/
[13:39] <AndyEsser> o0o thanks
[13:39] <AndyEsser> I should probably use something other than bash for these scripts, but... effort
[13:39] <AndyEsser> :)
[13:39] <AndyEsser> thanks all for the info
[13:40] <russss> so you can get the ID out of that using "jq '.[0].ID'"
[13:40] <russss> which is perhaps slightly tidier than the regex
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[13:43] <lz1dev> except, grep is available out of the box and portable
[13:45] <AndyEsser> there is that - I was trying to avoid dependencies
[13:45] <AndyEsser> :)
[13:45] <AndyEsser> but if it gets much more complicated, I'll move to like Python scripts, or look at jq
[13:47] <lz1dev> i'd go with python
[13:47] <lz1dev> if want to make some complicated long shellscript
[13:47] <lz1dev> python can do that, and it would probably faster, if you need transform data
[13:48] <AndyEsser> auto provisioning and deploying EC2 instances on AWS
[13:48] <AndyEsser> a 'proper' language would likely be better
[13:48] <lz1dev> theres probably a tool for that
[13:48] <adamgreig> there are loads of tools for that
[13:48] <adamgreig> some are even good
[13:49] <AndyEsser> well amazon provide the awscli - I'm just invoking the commands in the appropriate order I need them
[13:49] <lz1dev> when i say probably, i mean certainly xd
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[14:03] <AndyEsser> russss: I am clearly too dumb for jq ;)
[14:03] <russss> the language is a little obtuse
[14:05] <AndyEsser> http://pastebin.com/t9Jq48fr
[14:06] <AndyEsser> I basically want to run it twice on this, get the IP value back, and then the ID value back
[14:06] <AndyEsser> but I just keep getting blank :(
[14:08] <AndyEsser> lol - actually that was me being a muppet...
[14:08] <AndyEsser> now getting "jq: error: Cannot index string with string"
[14:08] <AndyEsser> helpful
[14:08] <AndyEsser> :)
[14:10] <russss> the query should just be ".IP" and ".ID" there
[14:11] <AndyEsser> so it should
[14:11] <AndyEsser> ha
[14:11] <AndyEsser> thanks
[14:13] <AndyEsser> russss: cheers
[14:13] <AndyEsser> was getting caught up with /[] {.ID} and stuff
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[14:15] <Vaizki> jq? is it like xslt for json? :O
[14:16] <Vaizki> zero runtime dependencies.. really? damn
[14:17] <Vaizki> ok so it's just a statically linked binary.. pffft :)
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[14:18] <russss> more like sed for json
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[14:38] <bfw> i yearn to fill a balloon with water, wait until it turns in to amonia and then throw it at you.
[14:38] <bfw> is this acceptable
[14:38] <bfw> please wear goggles
[14:40] <berryIMC> I use BMP180 pressure sensor in my payload. I am trying to understand the power requirements for this sensor...in the spec sheet is says 5uA (microAmps) when
[14:40] <berryIMC> it is taking 1 sample per second
[14:40] <berryIMC> so if my code does not read the sensor every minute but reads it every 2 mins, will the power draw halve?
[14:41] <berryIMC> basically can I reduce the power draw by not reading the sensor too often?
[14:41] <bfw> you need more pressure.
[14:41] <adamgreig> probably it uses a little power always, quiescent, which won't be affected
[14:41] <bfw> ?
[14:41] <adamgreig> and some greater amount of power when reading, which will be reduced by reading less often
[14:41] <berryIMC> I know it is a very low power sensor...
[14:41] <bfw> are you building a time machine?
[14:41] <adamgreig> but at 5uA you either already know that, or it's so small you might as well ignore it compared to everything else
[14:42] <berryIMC> I know
[14:42] <AndyEsser> edmoore: think we might need the ban hammer
[14:42] <bfw> ill molest you
[14:42] <bfw> dont ban me
[14:42] <edmoore> not yet
[14:42] <edmoore> bfw: we're generally a pretty friendly lot here
[14:43] <edmoore> lots of people new to electronics, programming, making stuff. some experienced people too
[14:43] <bfw> i molest computers
[14:43] <edmoore> i'm not a chemist but i don't think water will turn to ammonia if you leave it
[14:43] <bfw> does that qualify me?
[14:44] <bfw> im a habitual computer molester
[14:44] <edmoore> anyway, because this channel attracts a lot of people new to technology, it is less like other irc channels in terms of culture and language
[14:44] <bfw> oh shi
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[14:44] <R34lB0rg> I am a certified chemical laboratory assistant and I can tell that water will not turn into ammonia
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[14:46] <berryIMC> I have another question....has anyone used a IMU with accelerometer and Gyro to measure the forces on their payload?
[14:48] <edmoore> yes
[14:48] <edmoore> just to be pedantic, because i see people let terminology tie them in knots when trying to handle the equations, I've used them to measure accelerations and angular rates respectively
[14:48] <edmoore> rather than forces
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[14:51] <berryIMC> got it
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[14:51] <berryIMC> anyway force is just mass*acceleration, right?
[14:52] <berryIMC> as long as I have the mass of the payload, I can always multiply the acceleration with the mass to calculate the force?
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[14:54] <berryIMC> but of course, the acceleration is available in three dimensions and do I split the mass into the 3 dimensions also?
[14:55] <berryIMC> thats a crazy question - splitting mass into three dimensions
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[15:04] <berryIMC> edmoore - how was the power draw of the IMUs you used?
[15:05] <edmoore> you're correct everywhere berryIMC
[15:05] <edmoore> the power draw is pretty low from the sort of basic ones designed for mobile phones
[15:05] <edmoore> like 1mA maybe
[15:08] <berryIMC> ok.....
[15:08] <berryIMC> I wanted to crosscheck my understanding of these sensors.......like do I really need gyro data to get good acceleration data?
[15:10] <edmoore> no because gyros dont measure acceleration
[15:10] <edmoore> they measure angular rate
[15:10] <edmoore> the question is really what do you actually want to learn from the sensors
[15:11] <edmoore> attitude vs time?
[15:11] <berryIMC> attitude is already available from a BMP180...
[15:11] <adamgreig> attitude is not the same as altitude...
[15:11] <edmoore> no it isn't
[15:11] <edmoore> bmp180 measures pressure
[15:11] <berryIMC> sorry
[15:11] <edmoore> from which you can infer altitude with an 'l'
[15:11] <berryIMC> you are right..I misunderstood
[15:12] <berryIMC> basically I wanted to understand the forces acting on the payload
[15:12] <edmoore> you might be interested in, say, turbulance vs altitude
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[15:12] <berryIMC> yup
[15:12] <edmoore> in which case just accelerations would be fine i'd have thought
[15:12] <berryIMC> turbulance will be great
[15:13] <edmoore> whereas attitude (are you are oriented in 3d space) would probably need accel+gyro and some moderately clever algorithm to combine the data from those sensors to turn them into euler-angle (or whatever)
[15:13] <berryIMC> attitude is not important at this point in time...
[15:13] <edmoore> the latter is quite a lot more complicated than the former. Turbulance would be an interestiung thing to measure and accel-only i'd have thought
[15:13] <edmoore> if within your power budget you have the option to collect and save both, why not?
[15:13] <edmoore> you could revisit the dataset later
[15:14] <edmoore> having collected it anyway just incase
[15:15] <berryIMC> I was checking with the berryIMU folks who told me that their sensor consumes 350uA when gyro powered down but when gyro is on, it consumes 6.1mA
[15:15] <berryIMC> so gyro seems to be very power hungry
[15:15] <berryIMC> anyway back to my confusion
[15:16] <edmoore> ah right
[15:16] <edmoore> fair
[15:16] <edmoore> well, your call really
[15:16] <edmoore> adamgreig: what's the combined thirst of the 9050 thingamie (i forget the exact designation) that you thought was good?
[15:16] <berryIMC> is an IMU such that I can poll it periodically and get the acceleration in the different directions? or do I have to keep track of the values and use some filter to remove the noise...?
[15:17] <berryIMC> thats what the online documentation seems to suggest - that acceleration data is very noisy and that it needs a filter....
[15:17] <edmoore> berryIMC: first part) that's a 3-axis accelerometer. Yes you just poll it to get an instantaneous acceleration value
[15:17] <adamgreig> it's insanely low
[15:18] <adamgreig> oh hmm not that insane actually
[15:18] <edmoore> second part) yes, there is an awful lot of science you can do to get rid of noise and biases from inertial sensors to give an good overal estimate of your state
[15:18] <adamgreig> anyway 3.7mA for 9 axis at 4kHz gyro, 4kHz accel, 8Hz magno
[15:18] <edmoore> position/velocity/acceleration/attitude etc
[15:18] <adamgreig> down to 8.4uA for just accel at 1hz
[15:18] <edmoore> the most popular thing since the 60s has been a filter called the Kalman Filter
[15:19] <edmoore> it's been used on almost everything that flies from apollo onwards and is (in more modern forms) a key building block in a lot of signal processing and robotics and other applications
[15:20] <berryIMC> I was reading about Kalman filter and that it is processor intensive....
[15:20] <edmoore> in an extremely hand-wavy way, what it does is has a sort of 'mental model' of your system - how quickly it can accelerate and so on - and a finite amount of trust in what the sensors tell it
[15:20] <berryIMC> wondering if I should get my pi to do all this processing while in flight
[15:20] <edmoore> and it basically 'sanity checks' the sensor readings against the mental model and apportions and amount of trust to the mentla model and an amount of trust to the sensor readings and produces a new estimate of your state weighted by those trusts
[15:20] <edmoore> simple kalman filters are not cpu intensive really
[15:21] <berryIMC> adamgreig - are you saying that 3.1mA is not high?
[15:21] <Laurenceb_> wait... you have a pi on there and are worrying about 3mA ??
[15:21] <adamgreig> it's all relative
[15:21] <adamgreig> your pi will be using hundreds of mA at least
[15:21] <adamgreig> so compared to that 3mA is basically lost in the noise
[15:21] <edmoore> it's only that they can get quite complicated and are based on matrix maths, and some matrix maths operations like inversiion grow in cpu-intensiveness as the cube of the size of the matrix
[15:21] <adamgreig> but if you were actually doing low power design, 3mA is gigantic, and you'd be waking up only occasionally to sample data, etc
[15:22] <edmoore> so they get spu intensive for complicated ones but for simple small kalman filters they're not much different to anything else
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> I'm running a Kalman with attitude,velocity,position,gyro bias as the state matrix at 120hz on cortex m3 (no fpu), so its no too intensive
[15:30] <berryIMC> Laurenceb_: are you doing this in your HAB payload?
[15:31] <berryIMC> edmoore: so how are you calculating turbulance using acceleration?
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> no this isnt for HAB
[15:31] <edmoore> i don't know, i've never wanted to know
[15:32] <edmoore> i don't think there's an accepted metric for 'turbulance'
[15:32] <edmoore> that you can calculate
[15:32] <edmoore> and get a number saying 'there were 7.4 turbulances'
[15:32] <edmoore> you'd probably have to hit the weather or aviation literature
[15:33] <edmoore> but for making comparative measurements of turbulance at different altitudes an accelerometer would be my first choice i'd have thought
[15:34] <edmoore> maybe a graph of say the standard deviation of accelerations of a sliding 20-second window, vs altitude
[15:34] <berryIMC> would be or wouldn't be?
[15:34] <edmoore> would be
[15:35] <edmoore> so basically you expect the accelerometer to pretty much just see 1G the entire time it's hanging under the balloon right? just gravity
[15:36] <edmoore> but if it's being beaten up by turbulence, you'd expect that to be a very noisy average 1G rather than a very quiet average 1G
[15:37] <R34lB0rg> and you would see ~0g when the balloon pops
[15:37] <edmoore> so my thinking is you make a metric for noisiness (e.g. the standard deviation of some period of time like 20s) and call that 'turbulence
[15:37] <edmoore> this is my fag-packet first-order thought anyway
[15:37] <edmoore> there may be an established way of doing this already
[15:38] <berryIMC> if the payload rotates.there will be acceleration in other axes, right?
[15:39] <edmoore> yep
[15:39] <R34lB0rg> if the sensor is not mounted at the center of mass, you will see acceleration in addition to rotation
[15:39] <edmoore> acceleration towards the centre of rotation
[15:40] <SpeedEvil> There exist many mobile accelleromete chips that support interrupt on fall
[15:40] <R34lB0rg> yeah, but that draws additional current
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[15:41] <daveake> He has a Pi; low current consumption is therefore not factor
[15:42] <R34lB0rg> PITS does not come with a modified kernel, does it?
[15:46] <daveake> no
[15:47] <edmoore> berryIMC: are you flying a pits with all this lot or was your mention of it above as an alternative to something else?
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[16:00] <berryIMC> I am actually not using PITs
[16:00] <berryIMC> this is a payload made from scratch....
[16:00] <berryIMC> using a pi A+
[16:01] <berryIMC> and the point of centre of gravity is an interesting one
[16:01] <berryIMC> I had not thought of that
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[16:03] <berryIMC> I was originally planning to measure the velocity
[16:04] <berryIMC> but not sure how to convert the measures of acceleration into velocity since I am not sure if the spot measures of acceleration can be used to calculate the spot velocity
[16:05] <adamgreig> see edmoore's earlier discussion on attitude estimation with kalman filters
[16:06] <adamgreig> you can estimate velocity from acceleration but you have to make various assumptions and you will increase in error over time without some reference measurement
[16:06] <adamgreig> you can use the GPS derived velocity measurements too, to some extent, and incorporate them too
[16:06] <berryIMC> GPS derived = difference in altitude/time?
[16:06] <adamgreig> that's an option
[16:06] <berryIMC> or difference in coords/time?
[16:06] <adamgreig> well both are a velocity
[16:07] <berryIMC> right....in different directions...?
[16:07] <adamgreig> but gps usually outputs actual velocity estimate too, and at a more advanced level can do a good estimate using doppler shifts also
[16:07] <adamgreig> velocity always involves directions
[16:08] <berryIMC> I did not realize GPS calculates velocity
[16:08] <edmoore> it does and very well
[16:08] <berryIMC> rather provides an estimate of
[16:09] <berryIMC> in the GNGGA string that we get, is there a velocity value? or is it calculated ?
[16:09] <berryIMC> I meant the GNGGA string from GPS
[16:10] <edmoore> RMC iirc
[16:11] <edmoore> lots of us prefer to just talk to the gps it its native binary mode
[16:11] <edmoore> ubx protocol if usign a ublox gps
[16:18] <berryIMC> yes, I am using ublox
[16:18] <Laurenceb_> https://github.com/Laurenceb/STM32_Launcher/tree/master/Ublox
[16:25] <berryIMC> thanks for all that information!
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[17:46] <Rebounder> KC1DFW is floating pretty high.
[17:54] <Ian_> Other than train cord construction what are the factors that directly influence package and balloon rotation? In the Northern hemisphere package rotation appears to predominantly be to the right - clockwise when viewed from above?
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[18:04] <fsphil> does it? I wouldn't have thought it would have any preference
[18:04] <fsphil> the shape of the payload and how the air moves over it as it ascends will have the most effect on which way it spins
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[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[18:09] <fsphil> evenin!
[18:16] <Lunar_Lander> weekend :)
[18:16] <Lunar_Lander> today I tried my first Microwire device
[18:16] <Lunar_Lander> was irritating
[18:17] <fsphil> what are they? *googles*
[18:17] <fsphil> oh, SPI but not
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> yea MOSI/MISO are one line
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> so half-duplex if I think right
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> I tried the TC77 thermometer from Microchip
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> it sometimes worked, sometimes it didn't, I suspect an init problem, will have to look at it again
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[18:32] <Rebounder> Best chip for doing hf-transmissions? S
[18:32] <mattbrejza> 555 timer
[18:34] <fsphil> FT817 :)
[18:34] <fsphil> depends on what you are transmitting
[18:37] <Rebounder> telemetry from robotthings at 27 mhz
[18:37] <fsphil> what protocol/modulation?
[18:38] <mattbrejza> 27MHz crystal + inverter + crytsal pulling + class E amp
[18:38] <Rebounder> fsphil: fm for some reason, trying to help out in a project
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[18:42] <fsphil> something like https://www.adafruit.com/products/2045 might do if it's FSK
[18:45] <Rebounder> ah,, thanks
[18:45] <fsphil> there won't be much power from it
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[19:14] <SA6BSS-Mike> ohhh, wb8elk is going down!!
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[19:20] <SA6BSS-Mike> its snowing int the area http://www.smhi.se/vadret/nederbord-molnighet/radar-norden
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[19:55] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/kgzrfr1 - handlaunched eurofighter
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[20:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03XXTEST - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=XXTEST
[20:08] <chris_99> SpeedEvil, heh cool, could they have used EDFs where the jets normally are possibly?
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> yes - he did
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1664060&page=3
[20:10] <chris_99> they're props on the front
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1664060
[20:10] <chris_99> aren't they
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> 6kg all-up weight
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> 2:1 t:w
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> he was initially intending to do thrust vectored at the back but CG was a problem
[20:11] <chris_99> ahh, centre-of-gravity?
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:12] <chris_99> are model jet engines v. hard to make? as they seem very expensive
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> you can make brushless motors with very little gear.
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> you need a laser or waterjet cutter to cut laminations, a CNC lathe/mill to cut the cans
[20:15] <hosler> got my SDR running on gentoo finally
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> and then glue the magnets to the outside carefully, and wind the lams
[20:15] <hosler> so if i get it on the APRS network, i should hear more chatter, right?
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> you can't - quite - make it with a flie.
[20:15] <chris_99> hehe
[20:15] <fsphil> depending on where you live, there should be some activity on the aprs frequency
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> Jet engines involve really close tollerance high temperature stuff and flame dynamics and ...
[20:16] <chris_99> so i shouldnt expect any from China for < £300 anytime soon
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:16] <hosler> fsphil: i live in south east USA. everything is relatively quiet here. doesnt APRS extend my range?
[20:17] <fsphil> aprs is just a network. if you're not near any nodes you'll not hear anything
[20:17] <hosler> im near at least one node
[20:17] <fsphil> if it's transmitting you should hear it bleep every once in a while
[20:17] <hosler> yeah i heard it
[20:17] <chris_99> what SDR is it?
[20:18] <hosler> chris_99: this one http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011HVUEME
[20:18] <chris_99> ah cool, i've got an rtlsdr, i just need a decent antenna now
[20:19] <chris_99> oh that's got a better crystal though
[20:19] <chris_99> than mine
[20:19] <hosler> chris_99: i plugged mine in and i havent heard anything except weather broadcasts
[20:19] <hosler> it was kind of anti climactic
[20:19] <chris_99> you could check POCSAG maybe or the flight stuff
[20:19] <hosler> oh good idea
[20:20] <hosler> forgot about the airplanes
[20:20] <chris_99> i'll find the program i use it's pretty good
[20:20] <hosler> im using gqrx
[20:20] <fsphil> I like gqrx
[20:20] <fsphil> some rough edges but works a treat
[20:20] <hosler> fsphil: do i need to enable something special inside gqrx to hear stuff on APRS?
[20:21] <hosler> or does APRS relay on normal frequencies with nothing fancy
[20:21] <chris_99> oh dump1090
[20:21] <hosler> i still have no idea what im doing
[20:21] <chris_99> is the program
[20:21] <fsphil> no. but if you are hearing packets already there is a decoder (AFSK1200) in one of the menus
[20:21] <fsphil> but the packets probably don't contain much
[20:23] <R34lB0rg> btw there is a helpful ##rtlsdr channel
[20:23] <chris_99> mmm :)
[20:23] <hosler> R34lB0rg: thanks
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[20:43] <AndyEsser> My batteries have arrived :)
[20:43] <AndyEsser> https://www.facebook.com/EsserAdvancedDynamics/posts/1683609891895559
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[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[20:53] <AndyEsser> Even smaller than I expected :)
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[21:09] <habby> Where are they from, AndyEsser?
[21:12] <AndyEsser> company or country?
[21:12] <habby> company
[21:12] <AndyEsser> Enix Energies
[21:12] <AndyEsser> http://www.enix-energies.co.uk/
[21:13] <habby> Thanks :)
[21:14] <AndyEsser> 58x37x4mm
[21:14] <AndyEsser> can't really complain on the size for 1300mAh
[21:14] <AndyEsser> need to do a freezer test on them though
[21:15] <habby> There are loads on their site. Do you have a part number?
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> btw is there like a survey on which temperature sensors people used on their flights or is it just mostly DS18B20?
[21:15] <habby> Will look out for the results of frz test
[21:16] <habby> I;ve just added a DS18B20 to my payload for (hopefully) Monday
[21:16] <AndyEsser> two secs
[21:16] <hosler> how do i find freqency of these balloons on tracker.habhub.org
[21:16] <AndyEsser> GPS9015 or something
[21:16] <AndyEsser> hosler: you can type !dial <name> in here
[21:16] <AndyEsser> where <name> is the name of the balloon in question
[21:16] <hosler> !dial KD9DBI
[21:16] <SpacenearUS> 03hosler: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[21:16] <hosler> !dial KD9DBI-11
[21:16] <SpacenearUS> 03hosler: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[21:16] <hosler> dang
[21:16] <fsphil> won't work for APRS imports
[21:17] <fsphil> but they're APRS so there's a good bet they're on the standard frequency in their area
[21:17] <AndyEsser> habby: yep, GPS9015
[21:17] <habby> For my own future reference: http://www.enix-energies.co.uk/gps-battery-3-7v-1300mah-gps9015.html
[21:17] <AndyEsser> obviously designed to go into GPS devices :P
[21:17] <AndyEsser> but the reasonably high mAh number was what interested me
[21:18] <habby> Yes, looks good. Thanks :)
[21:19] <habby> How often do the predictors update? They are 00, 06, 12, 18; but when do those models go 'live'
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> about 5 h later I found
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[21:20] <habby> Thanks Lunar_Lander. Just planning to get most recent prediction for Monday.
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[21:45] <kc2pit> Lunar_Lander: I've used TMP36 analog sensors and the temperature readout from a BMP180. The DS18B20 seems oddly expensive to me; if you don't need the one-wire capability, consider something like an LM75 at a quarter of the price.
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[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for the info :)
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> I am asking because I was looking to expand my sensor comparison experiment on the next flight
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[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> habby, what exactly do you fly on monday?
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[22:41] <habby> Sorry, what do you mean?
[22:42] <habby> afk - rebooting
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[23:01] <habby> LunarLander - PITS on Pi A+ with Sense Hat and external temp sensor. Another A+ also, taking video only.
[23:01] <habby> *Lunar_Lander
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:04] <R34lB0rg> why two?
[23:05] <habby> One to get images with pilot at end of Balsa Wood 'selfie stick' and one to get unobscured images
[23:06] <R34lB0rg> so both have cameras?
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[23:10] <habby> Two cameras in the same payload, each on a separate RPi A+
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[23:31] <lz1dev> http://multistream-player.com/SpaceX
[23:31] <lz1dev> launch soon
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[23:44] <fsphil> looking good
[23:44] <fsphil> lovely image
[23:45] <kc2pit> I'm guessing they're not getting a refund on that first stage, though.
[23:45] <fsphil> I missed that. crashed again?
[23:45] <lz1dev> lost video signal
[23:45] <kc2pit> Looked like it. There were a few frames of choppy video showing a descending bright thing.
[23:45] <russss> not clear
[23:46] <kc2pit> But it didn't look like it was centered, and suddenly losing the signal suggests violence.
[23:47] <lz1dev> lost signal before it landed
[23:47] <fsphil> oh yes, I can rewind the stream
[23:48] <russss> I expect we will hear more details via an Elon tweet soon
[23:50] <Darkside> yes
[23:50] <Darkside> that appears to be the fastest vehicle for spacex news
[23:50] <fsphil> yeah that was well off to the left
[23:51] <lz1dev> are you playing frame by frame detective?
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[23:54] <fsphil> nope, I leave that up to people on twitter
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[23:59] <russss> https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/705905020886228994
[23:59] <fsphil> might just have damaged the antenna :)
[00:00] --- Sat Mar 5 2016