highaltitude.log.20160228

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[00:03] <AndyEsser> god damn stupid Microsoft standard library
[00:03] <AndyEsser> *sigh*
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[00:05] <fsphil> what evil has it done on you
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[00:06] <AndyEsser> turning VS into enable all warnings, and then treat warnings as errors
[00:06] <AndyEsser> about 1000 'errors' now
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[00:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WB8ELK-6 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-6
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[03:57] <arko> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMNw99Q8Ok0
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[04:04] <Ian_> That is very slick arko - bed time+ here Gn! :)
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[05:11] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
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[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03160000.0302.002_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=160000.0302.002_chase
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[07:52] <Rebounder> morning!
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[08:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD9DBI-11 after 0314 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD9DBI-11
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[08:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03777_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=777_chase
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[09:08] <Upu> !track THEO
[09:08] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Here you go - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=THEO
[09:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03THEO - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=THEO
[09:09] <fsphil> oh flight up?
[09:10] <Upu> yup
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[09:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03YL3GBC-9_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YL3GBC-9_chase
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[09:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Harvy_MSP_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Harvy_MSP_chase
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[09:18] <pb0ahx> !flights
[09:18] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03SP9UOB pico 22- 432.210 MHz CTSTIA 32/1000 10(c464)
[09:20] Nick change: zyp_ -> zyp
[09:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Theo_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Theo_chase
[09:24] <Upu> 434.644
[09:24] <Upu> 7N2
[09:24] <Upu> Shift is 170
[09:24] <Upu> no one else on this ?
[09:25] <Upu> its a bit drifty and I have to go out now
[09:26] <Upu> 434.645 atm
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[09:27] <Vaizki> A bit far for me :(
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[09:33] Nick change: junderwood -> M0JCU
[09:33] <fsphil> too late for me, already falling
[09:37] <M0JCU> Does this payload have _any_ insulation?
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[09:40] <PE2BZ> Good morning....
[09:40] <PE2BZ> !flights
[09:40] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03SP9UOB pico 22- 432.210 MHz CTSTIA 32/1000 10(c464)
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[09:41] <junderwood_> ... and one without a payload doc.
[09:42] <junderwood_> THEO, 434631 RTTY 50 7n1
[09:43] Nick change: junderwood_ -> M0JCU_junderwood
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[09:45] <fsphil> valid notam at least ;)
[09:47] <M0JCU_junderwood> Temperature seems to have stabilised.
[09:47] <PE2BZ> THEO = 170 hz ?
[09:47] <M0JCU_junderwood> Looks like it's swinging a lot under the parachute
[09:47] <Vaizki> good fortune with the landing approach road, they might see it land
[09:48] <M0JCU_junderwood> I'm using 190 and a wide filter bandwidth to allow it to track the changing freq
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[09:49] <M0JCU_junderwood> Lots of wet stuff around there
[09:49] <pb0ahx_> i am using a icom 910 and 19 ele vertical
[09:49] <thearduinoguy> o/
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[09:52] <PE2BZ> My IC-7000 is not stable at the frequency ;-)
[09:53] <M0JCU_junderwood> Payload seems to be warming up again. Frequency rising again
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[10:08] <AndyEsser> morning
[10:13] <M0JCU_junderwood> I hope Theo doesn't land on the LNER.
[10:14] <AndyEsser> tis a bit nippy inside the payload...
[10:15] <M0JCU_junderwood> That's toasty. It was -40 at one stage
[10:17] <AndyEsser> nice temperature varation
[10:17] <AndyEsser> presume it's playing having havoc with TX?
[10:17] <M0JCU_junderwood> Yup
[10:17] <AndyEsser> Upu: You around?
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[10:28] <ProSpectre> Theo on ground?
[10:28] <thearduinoguy> My guess is it is buy now
[10:29] <thearduinoguy> by
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[10:29] <thearduinoguy> The chase car has been stationery for a little while so perhaps it came down in that field next to it
[10:31] <pb0ahx_> PE2BZ, i have afc on than he folowing the signaal
[10:33] <M0JCU_junderwood> Always worrying when the chase car is at the bottom of a tree
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[10:34] <thearduinoguy> It did look suspiciously like it was heading right for that line of trees
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[10:39] <PE2BZ> pb0ahx_ thanks. I also had it on, tried normal and fast but fldigi could not keep up.
[10:44] Nick change: Guest73982 -> nick_
[10:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ6NTI_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ6NTI_chase
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[11:11] <thearduinoguy> I presume as the chase car is now heading away from the landing area for THEO that they have recovered the payload?
[11:12] <Harvy> Yup.
[11:12] <Harvy> We have recovered Theo and heading back.
[11:12] <thearduinoguy> Cool
[11:12] <thearduinoguy> Was it up a tree?
[11:13] <Harvy> No, it was close though.
[11:13] <thearduinoguy> Lucky
[11:14] <Harvy> I did submit payload docs last night but I guess no one was around approve?
[11:14] <craag> Harvy: You posted a payload doc id
[11:14] <craag> not a flight doc
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[11:15] <craag> And from the look of it, is was misconfigured.
[11:15] <Harvy> I posted two ids was the other not a flight doc?
[11:15] <craag> Ah yes
[11:16] <craag> you need to post one at a time ;)
[11:16] <craag> And saturday night is probably not the best time to hope on an admin being around at the last minute
[11:17] <craag> It also looks like the payload doc id wasn't the same id as on the flight doc?
[11:18] <craag> but anyway - for next time, just post the flight doc id, ideally more than 24h before the flight so you catch the admins at some point in their sleep pattern ;)
[11:21] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-11 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
[11:22] <habby_> How far in advance should we set up a flight doc, please?
[11:22] Nick change: mfa298_ -> mfa298
[11:23] <habby_> We are looking at a day 7th-11th March
[11:23] <craag> ideally more than 24h so you can find an admin to approve it
[11:23] <mfa298> habby_: the more notice you give usually the better (it also goes on a calendar), but once it's in you can't change things so easily.
[11:24] <habby_> That's my concern. If we put it up and then we change our mind...
[11:25] <mfa298> changing date is probably less of an issue, and the can be cancelled by an admin, it's more if you start changing the telemetry string things get more intersting
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[11:26] <habby_> Thanks, mfa298.
[11:29] <thearduinoguy> What are these payload docs I see no mention of them on the wiki?
[11:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KK6SDN-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6SDN-11
[11:30] <edmoore> they describe the telemetry packets (callsign, parameters, units, freqs, modulation) being sent by the balloon
[11:31] <edmoore> this lets all the listeners have their receiver software automatically configured to the payload (you just select a payload from the dropdown in the receiver programme - it updates the dropdown list by talking to the habhub server)
[11:31] <thearduinoguy> Oh ok I know what that is then, i've tracked flights before
[11:32] <mfa298> there's some documentation on them at http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/ but not something you need to worry about until you start making a payload you want to get on the map
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[11:38] <habby_> Is the Flight Doc ID the 32 character string?
[11:39] <habby_> And do I just post it in here?
[11:40] <mfa298> habby_: best to post into #habhub
[11:40] <habby_> Thanks
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[11:41] <mfa298> you'll find similar people in there to here, but it's used more for backend stuff and doesn't get cluttered up with general chat so there's more chance of the correct people seeing the approval request
[11:41] <AndyEsser> At least I've found use for my Rigol Scope box: https://t.co/Y5ItT0Tc5S
[11:49] <edmoore> they make good traps
[11:50] <AndyEsser> That was the purpose of it - to get it to stop clawing at my sofa
[11:50] <AndyEsser> anyway, back on topic :)
[11:50] <AndyEsser> I know that TCXO GPS modules or transmitters are good, because they prevent frequency drift etc in the highly variable temperature that HABs experience
[11:50] <edmoore> i've just bought some fountain pen ink called 'Heart of Darkness'
[11:50] <edmoore> i hope it doesn;t adversely affect my writing style
[11:50] <AndyEsser> is it worth using a TCXO crystal with my AVR?
[11:50] <AndyEsser> haha
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[11:51] <edmoore> not especially
[11:51] <Vaizki> not worth IT
[11:51] <edmoore> unless you really have some application that needs it
[11:51] <mfa298> AndyEsser: you'll want a crystal rather than using the internal oscilator, but I'm not sure anyone goes beyond a basic crystal
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[11:52] <AndyEsser> It was mainly just to prevent the timings for RTTY etc drifting
[11:52] <AndyEsser> mfa298: o yea, already use an external crystal (~8MHz)
[11:52] <edmoore> well as always, best to work it out
[11:52] <edmoore> find a datasheet, this for brevity
[11:52] <edmoore> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/75357.pdf
[11:53] <edmoore> see it's +-30ppm between -10 and 60
[11:53] <AndyEsser> Ta
[11:53] <edmoore> call that +/-50ppm when you go out to -30C for the sake of arguement
[11:53] <mfa298> I think the place people have had issues before is the uart talking to the gps when using the internal rc oscilator
[11:53] <Vaizki> You would need a 1000ppm error to ever motocross IT on RTTY
[11:54] <Vaizki> Dammit iPhone stop capitalizing IT
[11:54] <mfa298> that may in part be from some baud rates being off by default anyway in some avr configurations, so a bit of drift takes you well out of tolerance
[11:54] <edmoore> 50ppm error in 50 baud is an error of 0.00005 baud
[11:55] <edmoore> no it isn't i can't maths
[11:55] <edmoore> it's 0.0025
[11:55] <edmoore> still naff-all
[11:55] <AndyEsser> Fine, shall disgard thoughts of spending more on an XTAL than on the AVR
[11:55] <AndyEsser> discard*
[11:56] <edmoore> however 50ppm (0.00005) at 434000000 is an error of about 22kHz
[11:56] <Vaizki> the internal oscillator is 100 000 ppm ... :)
[11:56] <edmoore> which is significant
[11:56] <AndyEsser> edmoore: right, so that's why the TX and GPS stuff needs to be temp stabilised
[11:56] <edmoore> yep
[11:57] <AndyEsser> edmoore: just so I understand your maths
[11:57] <AndyEsser> 1,000,000 / (error_rate) = 0.00005 (when it's 50ppm)
[11:57] <AndyEsser> then 0.00005 * frequency (434000000 for example)
[11:58] <Vaizki> well I guess you can calibrate each individual 328p to a lot better accuracy than 10% for internal oscillator
[11:58] <AndyEsser> (error_rate) / 1,000,000 *
[11:58] <edmoore> yes
[11:58] <edmoore> 50/1e6 * 434e6
[11:59] <edmoore> so a drift of about 20kHz over the temperature range the crystal might reasonably see on a flight
[11:59] <AndyEsser> which is quite significant
[12:00] <edmoore> in the dark days you had to man your radio and listen to the rtty
[12:00] <edmoore> and retune it every 10 mins or so
[12:00] <AndyEsser> *shudder*
[12:02] <AndyEsser> thanks for the input chaps
[12:03] <AndyEsser> need to wrap up my circuit design and schematic this week and get PCBs ordered :(
[12:03] <AndyEsser> still hoping I might be able to have one ready to run as the backup tracker for Ben's flight at the end of the month :
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[12:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD4BFP-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD4BFP-11
[12:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-12 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-12
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[13:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03kd4bfp-car - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=kd4bfp-car
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[13:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03WB8ELK-6 after 037 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-6
[13:46] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB-11 after 0313 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB-11
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[13:53] <Harvy> Thanks guys for tracking THEO.
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[14:05] <Harvy> I guess the giant temp variation didn't help.
[14:05] <Harvy> Did someone say the payload was swinging around a lot as well?
[14:05] <Harvy> M0JCU?
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[14:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MK6SDN-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MK6SDN-11
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[15:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RUSSELL - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RUSSELL
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[15:06] Nick change: Steffann -> Steffanx
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[15:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03160000.0302.002_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=160000.0302.002_chase
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[15:30] <Upu> hey Harvy
[15:30] <Upu> no one realised it was up you need to announce a little sooner :L)
[15:30] <Upu> it was drifting up quite a bit
[15:30] <Upu> I guess you recovered then ?
[15:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> [12:12:13] <Harvy> Yup. [12:12:31] <Harvy> We have recovered Theo and heading back. [12:12:39] <thearduinoguy> Cool [12:12:53] <thearduinoguy> Was it up a tree? [12:13:11] <Harvy> No, it was close though.
[15:44] <pb0ahx__> !flights
[15:44] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx__: Current flights: 03SP9UOB pico 22- 432.210 MHz CTSTIA 32/1000 10(c464)
[15:45] <pb0ahx__> wat is the frequentie off RUSSEL can some body tel me ????
[15:49] <SA6BSS-Mike> it is not anounced, just ground testing I presume
[15:50] <pb0ahx__> tnx mike
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[16:07] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/Zo9bt
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[16:09] Nick change: MoALTz_ -> MoALTz
[16:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hr_v_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hr_v_chase
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[16:13] <Harvy> Upu, I announced last night but that too late for the human to approve anything (groups, docs ,etc)
[16:13] <Upu> yeah no one approved it
[16:13] <Upu> I just noticed it and tuned in
[16:13] <Upu> you weren't uploading at all
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[16:14] <Harvy> I was getting signal just not uploading
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[16:21] <Harvy> Do we have a list of receivers and locations?
[16:21] <Upu> should be on the stats page
[16:21] <Upu> http://habitat.habhub.org/stats/
[16:22] <Harvy> Upu, drifting was probabyl becuase someone didn't seal the lid properly.
[16:22] <Upu> you didn't get an approved flight doc
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[16:23] <Harvy> I have callsigns from the raw data, I was just wondering where to get their locations from?
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[16:30] <mfa298> Harvy: you can probably see them on the map (I think they're also queriable from the habitat couchdb but that may not be documented as well)
[16:31] <mfa298> for amateur radio call signs there are often online databases you can query (such as qrz) but thats dependant on how much information people publish
[16:35] <Harvy> ok cool. I'm just clicking all the receivers for now.
[16:36] <Harvy> I might look at quering cb later on.
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[16:39] <Upu> make sure you get a flight doc approved next time
[16:39] <Upu> will make stuff easier
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[16:50] <Rebounder> sp9oub is solar?
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[17:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> i forgot how much i enjoy pcb design
[17:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> maybe i'm weird
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[17:04] <fsphil> like puzzle solving, only useful
[17:06] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
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[17:09] <Ben-AstroSoc> attempting to do this with single layer copper
[17:09] <Ben-AstroSoc> which will inevitably end with me learnign to design double layered on proteus
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[17:14] <Lunar_Lander> are you making yourself a flight computer ben?
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[17:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah
[17:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> the computer itself is part of a module for uni
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[17:22] <SA6BSS-Mike> Rebounder: yes
[17:24] <SA6BSS-Mike> wb8elk-6 looks like a floater, crusing @ 7300m
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[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[17:49] <hosler> me and my buddy got 300 dollars and want to try weather balloon+pi launch. we are amateurs
[17:49] <hosler> so i guess im fishing for recommendations on how to approach this
[17:51] <R34lB0rg> hosler, have you read https://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[17:53] <SA6BSS-Mike> you could go with the pi in the sky kit, ad a rtl-sdr dongle and antenna, get a balloon and then you probably out of money and have to pay for gas yourself http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=75&product_id=104
[17:54] <SA6BSS-Mike> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
[17:55] <R34lB0rg> are picospace trackers available?
[17:55] <SA6BSS-Mike> nop
[17:55] <SA6BSS-Mike> are u looking for a hf/wspr tracker?
[17:58] <SA6BSS-Mike> if so you can build one easy by copying/make a small, light version of qrp-labs u3s kit
[18:01] <Ben-AstroSoc> I've probably committed multiple cardinal sins of RF board design but here we go http://i.imgur.com/a4265O7.png
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[18:12] <Ben-AstroSoc> tidied it up a bit so there's ground plane between varies signal tracks
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[18:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UBSEDS14 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS14
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[18:24] <Vaizki> Ben-AstroSoc: what is U2?
[18:25] <Ben-AstroSoc> atmega328
[18:25] <Vaizki> hmm.. thought it might be but it looks somehow too elongated?
[18:25] <Vaizki> maybe just a visual bug in my head :)
[18:25] <Ben-AstroSoc> i mean, it's got hte right amount of pins
[18:26] <Ben-AstroSoc> we had to mess with it to get the right package, proteus only had the surface mount one
[18:27] <Vaizki> it should have the same pin pitch as the ntx2b
[18:27] <Vaizki> and it clearly doesn't?
[18:28] <Ben-AstroSoc> you're right
[18:28] <Ben-AstroSoc> oooh crud this is an older version of the simulation, we switched the T-blocks out on friday
[18:28] <Vaizki> I assume that's a NTX2B there.. even with all the extra pins :)
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[18:28] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah we were gonna just solder it on :p
[18:29] Nick change: xfce -> Guest93942
[18:29] <Ben-AstroSoc> gonna look up the header pin package and swap 'em out
[18:32] <Ben-AstroSoc> it's 2mm spacing right?
[18:33] <Ben-AstroSoc> nope, can't be right
[18:33] <Vaizki> 0.1" = 2.54mm
[18:34] <Ben-AstroSoc> oh, it's 0.1", thanks
[18:35] <Vaizki> it's the arduino standard ;)
[18:39] <hosler> R34lB0rg: thanks for the link
[18:39] <hosler> SA6BSS-Mike: yeah i was looking at that kit
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[18:39] <hosler> it kinda looks like if i wanna do this cheap ill have to rely on other hobbyists to help me track the thing
[18:40] <SA6BSS-Mike> where are launching from?
[18:40] <hosler> somewhere in mississippi
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[18:40] <hosler> central mississippi i guess
[18:40] <SA6BSS-Mike> ah, ok, then you better reach out to local ham community
[18:41] <hosler> word ok
[18:44] <mfa298> hosler: one thing to note is that what's license free in UK/EU (434MHz) may need a license in the US. if someone in your team has a HAM license or is willing to get one, look into APRS as a way of tracking.
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[18:44] <edmoore> i seem to remember a flight from jackson in the dim and distant past
[18:46] <hosler> i guess ill get a technician license
[18:46] <edmoore> i have heard that's both an easy and worthwhile thing to do
[18:46] <mfa298> I don't know what the US courses are like, but a basic understanding of radio can be very useful for this
[18:47] <hosler> yeah. i wanna do this right
[18:47] <mfa298> and if you're interested in electronics / programming making your own payload can be very rewarding.
[18:48] <mfa298> either with something like a Pi or using a microcontroller like "Arduino".
[18:49] <hosler> i was just gonna use a pic24 with a gps, but i thought i should go all out with all sorts of sensors and use a pi. then i found this pi in the sky kit, and that really got my excited.
[18:49] <hosler> me*
[18:49] <mfa298> although if you go the microcontroller it can be better to use the AVR chips without the arduino extra.
[18:50] <kc2pit> Eh, if you're going through the effort of ditching the Arduino training wheels, there are far better microcontroller families to learn.
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[18:50] <hosler> im just comfortable with the pic. used it all through college
[18:50] <mfa298> PITS (pi in the sky) can be good if you want to use SSDV (sending back live images), but for just sensors a PIC/AVR/STM/... would probably do as well.
[18:51] <hosler> but pi is really what im thinking of using now
[18:51] <kc2pit> But if you already know pic, then use what you like.
[18:51] <hosler> SSDV for sure
[18:51] <hosler> this is probably gonna be a one time deal. so might as well make it sweet.
[18:54] <hosler> ill keep yall posted if this actually gets in motion
[18:55] <mfa298> there's plenty of help and experience around here so it's well worth hanging around and asking questions.
[18:55] <hosler> yeah ill idle here forever now that i know this is a real place
[18:55] <mfa298> a fair number of us are UK/EU based but there's a reasonable number from your side of the pond
[18:56] <edmoore> with the right incantation you can summon arko
[18:56] <edmoore> wakka-wakka-wakka-oompa-loompa-flobbadydingdong
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[18:56] Action: edmoore smears himself in goat's blood
[18:56] <edmoore> and now arko should appear
[18:56] <arko> I am here
[18:56] <edmoore> works every time
[18:56] <arko> I have been summoned 
[18:56] <mfa298> as if by magic
[18:56] <hosler> do i need to talk to the FAA before i do this?
[18:57] <Vaizki> oompa loompa doompety doo
[18:57] <arko> Answer me these questions three, er thee other side ye see
[18:57] <arko> one!
[18:57] <arko> what is your payload mass?
[18:57] <hosler> 2lbs about
[18:57] <hosler> less probably
[18:57] <arko> (that is weight, and you should be flying in the air by now, but ill let it go)
[18:58] <arko> :P
[18:58] <arko> two!
[18:58] <hosler> oops
[18:58] <Vaizki> surely just the cat is more than 2lbs
[18:58] <arko> what is your launch location?
[18:58] <hosler> central mississippi
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[18:59] <arko> three!
[18:59] <arko> is your payload a solid block of metal?
[18:59] <hosler> it's a raspi
[18:59] <arko> excellent
[18:59] <arko> read this through: http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/part101.html
[18:59] <craag> 2lbs
[18:59] <SIbot> In real units: 2 lbs = 907 g
[19:00] <arko> issue a notam for good measure
[19:00] <craag> normality restored :)
[19:00] <arko> and have a great flight
[19:00] <hosler> wow thanks
[19:00] <arko> please note
[19:00] <arko> i have 0 authority, read and fly at your own risk :)
[19:00] <arko> make sure you comply with part 101
[19:00] <Vaizki> also YANAL? :)
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[19:01] <hosler> so i gotta warn the FAA
[19:02] <edmoore> i read that as questioning a sexual proclivity
[19:02] <edmoore> Vaizki:
[19:02] <arko> call the atc around the launch location and issue a NOTAM 24 hrs before the flight
[19:02] <arko> 48 if youre feeling nice
[19:02] <Vaizki> edmoore: sorry but it's just You Are Not A Lawyer
[19:02] <edmoore> i know now
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[19:03] <hosler> arko: thanks
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[19:03] <arko> np!
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[19:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> done the ntx2b pins properly and got rid of the extra ones in the middle
[19:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> much neater
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[19:46] <LunarMobile> Sorry for my router acting up, will shut the chat off when I am back upstairs
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[20:03] <Laurenceb_> any latex/tex gurus here?
[20:04] <nick_> I wouldn't claim to be a guru, but ask away.
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> I've got a two column document and need full with figures
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> how can i do this? using figure* causes all my figures to float to the end of the document
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> *full width
[20:06] <AndyEsser> hey Ben-AstroSoc
[20:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> o/
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> this is what I'm aiming for http://pih.sagepub.com/content/229/8/570.full.pdf+html
[20:08] <Laurenceb_> figure 1,2 etc
[20:09] <Laurenceb_> it'd help if the journal provided some actually useful example documents :S
[20:10] <Laurenceb_> maybe I should email the editor and see if they can refer me to someone :-/
[20:14] <mattbrejza> figure* shouldnbt cause them to go to the end of the document
[20:15] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD9DBI-11 after 0312 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD9DBI-11
[20:15] <R34lB0rg> Laurenceb_, \begin{figure}[H]
[20:15] <mattbrejza> what letters do you have in the brackets?
[20:16] <R34lB0rg> Laurenceb_, maybe \end{multicols} \begin{multicols}
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[20:16] <Laurenceb_> \begin{figure*}[!h]
[20:16] <mattbrejza> try [htbp]
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> ok
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> ah finally
[20:19] <Laurenceb_> thanks, just need to make it actually look half reasonable now :P
[20:19] <Laurenceb_> how come htbp works yet ! or H didn't ?
[20:19] <mattbrejza> i have no idea, ive just been copying [htbp] for the last however many years
[20:20] <Laurenceb_> heh one way to do it
[20:29] <R34lB0rg> reminds me of the rsync wrapper I keep copying around
[20:35] <Rebounder> LaTeX and pics are a nightmare :)
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[22:44] <RocketBoy> daveake: Fridays recovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjVUsdHZvo
[22:45] <RocketBoy> must be one of my easiest
[22:50] <hosler> whats a good cheap ham reciever for balloon project? i guess it doesnt have to be really cheap. just not super expensive
[22:50] <hosler> also this will be my first one
[22:55] <chris_99> i've picked up a balloon before with an icom ic-r10 i bought from fleabay a while ago, i'm not sure how that compares to other radios though
[22:55] <hosler> actually this 434Mhz is for UK law stuff
[22:55] <hosler> i was looking at more expensive ones because of that
[22:55] <hosler> chris_99: ill check it out. thanks
[22:57] <daveake> cheers Steve :)
[22:57] <daveake> pleased to make it easy for you :p
[23:01] <hosler> what do yall think about this: http://www.amazon.com/Yaesu-FT-2900R-Mobile-Transceiver-Amateur/dp/B004WKH00M/
[23:05] <hosler> or maybe i need that higher frequency for video
[23:05] <hosler> lol i have no idea what im doing yet
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[23:06] <daveake> You need to decide what you're transmitting first, before you go buying the wrong receiver
[23:07] <hosler> right
[23:07] <hosler> i couldnt find any recommended transmitters in that one's range
[23:07] <daveake> Well it's a VHF FM transceiver, so could be used to receive APRS
[23:08] <daveake> which is the most common option stateside for telemetry from balloons
[23:08] <hosler> i think my safest option is to use this: http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/
[23:08] <daveake> but it's not going to do images, let alone video
[23:08] <hosler> and buy a reciever that works for that one
[23:08] <daveake> right, so in that case you've got 4 basic classes of receiver
[23:09] <daveake> cheapest would be a TV dongle, or RTL-SDR, which connects to a laptop via USB
[23:11] <daveake> Those are a bit deaf so are best hooked up to a "HABAmp" (from the same shop that sells the PITS board)
[23:11] <daveake> Next option is a scanner (e.g. the ICOM mentioned above). Most scanners don't do SSB so check that any you consider buying do have it.
[23:11] <daveake> Next option up the pay scale is a good SDR - Funcube dongle, SDRPlay, or AirSpy, for example
[23:11] <kc2pit> Speaking of those... anybody know a decent 146MHz equivalent for the HABamp? I see a few similar looking things on ebay; no idea if they're actually good.
[23:11] <daveake> And finally, UHF transceivers such as the Yaesu 817
[23:12] <hosler> i kina want to get a UHF tranceiver
[23:12] <hosler> but not lay down 700 dollars for a good yaesu
[23:13] <daveake> So with the PITS and any of those, you can do images as well as telemetry. To play extra safe you can get an APRS board to plug onto the same Pi as the PITS board, so your flight should get received by the APRS network as well as you and your UHF radio.
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[23:14] <daveake> For video, I believe you can just fly a TV transmitter. I don't know what frequencies/powers are allowed but it has been done/
[23:14] <hosler> APRS are relay stations?
[23:14] <daveake> And whatever you do, you need a ham license
[23:14] <hosler> man i gotta go study more before i can even understand most of this
[23:15] <daveake> yeah none of this is complex but there are many things to know about
[23:15] <daveake> all part of the fun
[23:15] <kc2pit> 420-432MHz is allocated for amateur TV, as long as you're more than a few hundred miles from the Canadian border. There's also an allocation in 902-928MHz, IIRC.
[23:15] <hosler> ok what does PITS stand for because im seeing that a lot
[23:15] <hosler> oh
[23:15] <hosler> pi in the sky duh
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[23:24] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/53jxQuM catapult
[23:28] <hosler> now im leaning more towards SDR and HAB amp
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> that works well
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-SD2gxMn5U - SpaceX webcast just started - launch in about 12 minutes perhaps
[23:29] <mfa298> hosler: some of the better SDRs (funcube, airspy, hackrf) may not need the habamp.
[23:30] <hosler> ok cool
[23:30] <mfa298> also for tranceivers like the FT817 look at the likes of eBay and radio rallies as you can often find them 2nd hand for a more reasonable price, and they tend to keep their price well.
[23:31] <kc2pit> I think the hackrf is a bit deaf. The funcube is at least meant for weak signals without extra pieces.
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[23:31] <mfa298> 2nd hand prices on eBay for the FT817 are still similar to what I paid around 2009
[23:31] <russss> as far as I can tell, second hand FT817s tend to sell for a pretty mediocre discount on ebay
[23:32] <hosler> http://www.amazon.com/RTL-SDR-Blog-RTL2832U-Software-Telescopic/dp/B011HVUEME/ wow so cheap
[23:32] <russss> you might get one £50 cheaper than new if you're lucky
[23:33] <mfa298> kc2pit: at some point I want to try comparing the rtlsdr (R820T) rtlsdr (R820T2) hackrf and fcd Pro+ on a flight. My suspicion is the FCD will probably still do best, probably followed by hackrf and R820T2, with the R820 being last.
[23:35] <mfa298> fcd pro+ and airspy should have slightly better dynamic range due to more bits per sample, although I suspect the hackrf hardware surpasses the rtlsdr even though they're both 8 bit devices.
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[23:47] <craag> aww fouled range
[23:48] <russss> paging https://twitter.com/waywardboat
[23:50] <craag> What's the limit on how long they can hold?
[23:51] <russss> not long
[23:51] <russss> it's defined by the lox temperature, if it warms up too much they have to drain and replace it
[23:51] <craag> I see..
[23:51] Nick change: andyvk5_ -> andyvk5
[23:52] <russss> because of their new deep cryo stuff
[23:52] <craag> mm
[23:52] <hosler> now i need a payload box or something
[23:52] <russss> apparently the detank/refill process takes an hour or so
[23:52] <hosler> i guess i just make that myself
[00:00] --- Mon Feb 29 2016