highaltitude.log.20160225

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[07:36] <edmoore> http://www.howtogeek.com/243263/how-to-disable-ads-on-your-windows-10-lock-screen/
[07:36] <edmoore> notes only a few weeks until the next ubuntu LTS
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[07:50] <Rebounder> morrn
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[08:44] <fsphil> yikes. MS must have a very low opinion of their own product if they're plastering it with ads
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[08:55] <AndyEsser> fsphil: they have a "Would you rate this App" popup on the Calculator in Windows 10...
[08:55] <fsphil> :/
[08:56] <fsphil> I copied the winxp calculator back in after updating to win7
[08:56] <edmoore> jesus christ if only solidworks could have a linux or osx port
[08:56] <fsphil> for doing quick base-n conversion the old one was better
[08:57] <AndyEsser> fsphil: yea... I kind of miss that calculator
[08:57] <edmoore> ipython is what i have open all day
[08:57] <edmoore> and my old casio on the desk
[08:57] <AndyEsser> who ever decided that "Programmer"s don't want to be able to use decimals is a moron
[08:57] <edmoore> tween those two i'm good
[08:57] <fsphil> yeah I'm doing more python these days for quick calcs
[08:57] <AndyEsser> edmoore: I've started doing that as well
[08:57] <AndyEsser> err.. sorry fsphil
[08:57] <fsphil> haven't got ipython working yet
[08:57] <AndyEsser> pretty much always have ipython notebook running and just use it as a glorified piece of paper
[08:58] <edmoore> i wonder if i should get a landrover defender now before the prices start to go up
[08:58] <edmoore> pip3 install ipython[all]
[08:58] <edmoore> voila
[08:59] <AndyEsser> 90 or 110 wheelbase?
[08:59] <edmoore> or if on windows, smear yourself in goats blood and dance around a funeral pyre and then whatever else it is you have to do to get anything done on that wasnte of bits
[08:59] <edmoore> 90 probs
[08:59] <AndyEsser> I'd quite like a Defender
[08:59] <edmoore> (I believe the anaconda python distribution is the most pain-free way to do it on windows)
[09:00] <AndyEsser> ^
[09:00] <AndyEsser> it's what I've used for my windows PC's
[09:00] <AndyEsser> it "just works" basically from the installer
[09:00] <edmoore> so i hear
[09:00] <edmoore> the notebooks are a really good thing, i think
[09:00] <edmoore> i've probably said that 57594 times before
[09:00] <edmoore> but worth resaying periodically
[09:00] <AndyEsser> I'm glad you introduced me to it
[09:00] <AndyEsser> At least one thing you've told me has stuck :)
[09:01] <edmoore> when you get into the habit of writing notes as you go along you suddenly end up with a really good log book of everything you've done that stays with the actual work
[09:01] <edmoore> iain always wistfully says he wishes he had it for his PhD
[09:01] <AndyEsser> And unlike bits of paper - behaves with source control :)
[09:03] <fsphil> it lives
[09:03] <edmoore> beautiful
[09:05] <AndyEsser> fsphil: now just look paste the lack of curly brackets and you'll be fine :)
[09:05] <fsphil> yes, needs a switch()-type statement too :)
[09:06] <gonzo_> log books don't go out of date, so you end up having to continually re-import them into the next version, for fear of not being able to read them at a later date
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[09:09] <edmoore> bbl
[09:10] <fsphil> plotting example works well. a chirp too, which is popular at the moment :)
[09:10] <fsphil> that really is neat
[09:10] <fsphil> the linux console should borrow a few tricks from this
[09:10] <AndyEsser> chirp?
[09:11] <fsphil> a signal increasing in frequency. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWqhUANNFXw
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[09:13] <fsphil> the example at http://nbviewer.jupyter.org/github/ipython/ipython/blob/1.x/examples/notebooks/Part%203%20-%20Plotting%20with%20Matplotlib.ipynb used it
[09:13] <AndyEsser> ah
[09:16] <fsphil> also part of how LORA works
[09:17] <AndyEsser> it relies on signals increasing in frequency?
[09:18] <AndyEsser> http://www.eadyn.co.uk/circuit-design/ <- look at all the spare IO on the uC :(
[09:18] <fsphil> yeah. it's carrier is constantly increasing up to a point, then rolls back around. sawtooth wave basically
[09:18] <AndyEsser> this upsets me
[09:18] <AndyEsser> interesting
[09:18] <AndyEsser> what's the benefits of? (gradually increasing bandwidth?)
[09:18] <AndyEsser> I know nothing really about RF
[09:18] <fsphil> it spreads the energy out a bit
[09:19] <AndyEsser> Hmm fair enough
[09:19] <fsphil> the receiver can undo it, and in the process spreads out noise or other signals
[09:20] <AndyEsser> Ah ok
[09:20] <AndyEsser> so I guess actually, if there's interference at a particularly frequency, you can get around that
[09:22] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI868 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI868
[09:24] <mfa298> python/calculator for quick sums, I just use bc it's on pretty much any *nix system and just works especially when you remember the ibase/obase options
[09:25] <daveake> I have a Texas hex calculator with big buttons. Suits me :-). Also have a HP model for those "I'm not worthy" moments
[09:26] <fsphil> none of my "real" calculators have base-n modes
[09:26] <fsphil> an old one did but that's long lost now
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[09:27] <daveake> Mine is the non-solar version of http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Texas-Instruments-TI-52-Solar-scientific-calculator-/201521978360?hash=item2eeba55bf8:g:eMwAAOSwUuFWvQAt
[09:28] <daveake> Oh, forgot about that - a little calculator from Staples that has hex
[09:28] <daveake> You can have that at the conf if you want :)
[09:29] <habby> Morning! At what altitude am I permitted to fly a balloon *without* CAA permission?
[09:32] <fsphil> fairly sure anything wider than 2m will need an exception regardless of the altitude
[09:32] <fsphil> if it's not tethered anyway
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[09:33] <pb0ahx__> !flights
[09:33] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx__: Current flights: 03PS-61 434.650 OLIVIA 8/250 Enable RSID 10(548e), 03SP9UOB pico 21- 144.250MHz CTSTIA 32/1000 10(8e1c)
[09:33] <fsphil> even tethered balloons need permission above 60m
[09:34] <fsphil> they don't say if that's ASL. gotta be though
[09:35] <zyp> wouldn't it be a question of airspace class? you shouldn't need permission to fly anything in uncontrolled airspace?
[09:35] <daveake> If it is, I can't legally hold a balloon in my hand here :/
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[09:36] <fsphil> AGL even*
[09:36] <daveake> :)
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[09:39] <habby> It woudl be tethered - test flight
[09:40] <habby> *would
[09:40] <fsphil> you're good to 60m then (this is not legal advice ;)
[09:40] <fsphil> tethered flights are annoying in anything but perfectly calm days
[09:41] <habby> Thanks. And, if I'm going, you're all coming down with me ;)
[09:41] <fsphil> hah
[09:42] <fsphil> https://www.caa.co.uk/Consumers/Displays-and-events/Displays-and-events/
[09:42] <fsphil> you still need permission within certain areas
[09:42] <habby> Awesome. Thanks, fsphil :)
[09:43] <habby> To be honest, at 60m, I don't really know what we'd get out of a test. Any compelling reason to go for this?
[09:44] <fsphil> not really
[09:44] <fsphil> waste of a balloon and gos
[09:45] <fsphil> gas*
[09:45] <habby> Thanks again, that's good to know.
[09:45] <R34lB0rg> you probably get more of placing payload and receiver on hilltops
[09:46] <fsphil> test everything on the ground. also test it all together in the payload box
[09:46] <fsphil> and yeah if you have a hill nearby try doing a range test
[09:46] <fsphil> radio problems don't always show themselves at short range
[09:47] <fsphil> there's nothing worse than releasing the payload and having the signal just fade away
[09:47] <R34lB0rg> and also check gps coordinates
[09:47] <gonzo_> with a payload on the ground, you shoudl; still be getting good signals from a few 100yds away
[09:47] <habby> We are in the Pennines. Doing a 'fox-hunt' tomorrow in the moors (as advised by Upu)
[09:48] <fsphil> the backup plan. good idea
[09:48] <habby> We have a directional Yagi, so going to listen for it first and then when get decent signal, head for the GPS coordinates
[09:48] <fsphil> you've no shortage of good hills then
[09:50] <habby> When you say 'hill', do you mean put it on a hill up high, the other side of a valley, or the other side of the hill? #TheOnlyStupidQuestionIsTheOneYouDontAsk
[09:50] <R34lB0rg> a freezer with glass doors (like they have in supermarkets) on a hilltop would be a perfect test for a payload
[09:51] <habby> I have an inverter so I could power it from my car, I guess?
[09:51] <R34lB0rg> habby, in doubt the other side of a valley
[09:52] <habby> R34lB0rg, 'you' doubt, or 'if in' doubt?
[09:52] <fsphil> in my own case I left the payload transmitting at home, and went to a point 10km away with LOS and was able to receive the signal
[09:52] <habby> LOS is my issue here
[09:53] <fsphil> indeed, those hills can be a problem too
[09:53] <R34lB0rg> habby, if in doubt you want a clear line of sight
[09:53] <AndyEsser> I could probably get LOS from the top of Snowden to my house...
[09:53] <AndyEsser> hmm
[09:54] <habby> So I need a completey clear LOS, or will I be OK with hillocks/mounds/dips, etc?
[09:54] <R34lB0rg> omg! http://i.imgur.com/V67fmao.jpg </ot>
[09:54] <fsphil> any amount of earth can block the signal pretty good
[09:55] <fsphil> but try it anyway. experience is good
[09:56] <habby> Thanks all. Will do. Will report back tomorrow! cheers
[09:59] <R34lB0rg> interesting to note that a ships communication range depends mainly on the height of the antenna (distance to horizon)
[10:00] <R34lB0rg> only obstruction is the curvature of the earth
[10:04] <gonzo_> radar range equation
[10:04] <gonzo_> dep[ending on the freq, the curvature may nit be an issue
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[10:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BALYOLO - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALYOLO
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[10:32] <pb0ahx__> !flights
[10:32] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx__: Current flights: 03PS-61 434.650 OLIVIA 8/250 Enable RSID 10(548e), 03SP9UOB pico 21- 144.250MHz CTSTIA 32/1000 10(8e1c)
[10:39] <pb0ahx__> !dial balyolo
[10:39] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx__: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[10:43] <edmoore> i doubt its flying pb0ahx__
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[11:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-11 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
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[11:48] <habby> Is PI868 still on for today?
[11:49] <daveake> tomorrow
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[12:01] <FuzzyLemon> @daveake What frequency are you using for your PITS flight tomorrow? I'm planning on launching tomorrow too using 434.5MHz
[12:01] <daveake> 434.250
[12:01] <daveake> All in the mailing list :)
[12:02] <daveake> (and the calendar)
[12:02] <FuzzyLemon> thanks! Good luck! i'm hoping not to land in the sea this time
[12:03] <daveake> yeah that's a worthy goal
[12:03] <daveake> launch is where ?
[12:04] <FuzzyLemon> chipping norton
[12:04] <FuzzyLemon> decided to launch further from the north sea
[12:05] <daveake> yeah I see it on notaminfo
[12:05] <FuzzyLemon> i'll put all the info on the mailing list
[12:06] <daveake> That's close to the coast with 30km/5/5, so put in plenty of gas
[12:07] <FuzzyLemon> yep
[12:07] <FuzzyLemon> aiming for 26km/7 up/5 down
[12:08] <daveake> yeah that'll be fine
[12:46] <daveake> Ely is where's it at tomorrow http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=c66e7db260dc392e0045e876e03fcc0db5e83cc1
[12:50] <craag> I'll be in norwich with this, wonder if they'll let me hook up dlfldigi https://twitter.com/m0xtd/status/702806038714687488
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[13:01] <daveake> :)
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[13:04] <edmoore> beautiful clear skies
[13:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03longcroft chase car - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=longcroft%20chase%20car
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[13:21] <dbrooke> daveake: if it actually ends up there I might receive it on the ground
[13:29] <mfa298> "Main aim = don't land in the sea." - always a good thing to aim for :)
[13:31] <daveake> :)
[13:34] <R34lB0rg> I'll never get it, I can rent a sailboat for ~ $40/h here
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[14:00] <Ian_> A shame you aren't located in the Wash then?
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[14:02] <fab4space> hello all
[14:02] <fab4space> daveake just seen your payload picture on tweeter
[14:03] <fab4space> are you using 2 lora expansion boards?
[14:05] <daveake> No, 1
[14:05] <craag> fab4space: Looks like a standard pits board, and single lora expansion
[14:05] <daveake> it is
[14:06] <fab4space> oh sorry I tought you were using lora too for 434
[14:06] <daveake> nope
[14:06] <fab4space> ok I understand now :)
[14:06] <daveake> If I did, it'd just be a 434 lora on that same board
[14:06] <fab4space> yes that's what I was expecting
[14:06] <fab4space> :)
[14:07] <fab4space> I'm looking forward to see your high bitrate ssdv pictures decoded :)
[14:07] <daveake> you think it'll work? :p
[14:08] <fab4space> lol :p with LOS in the ascent phase I'm almost sure you will have very good results !
[14:08] <daveake> yeah it's when it gets further away I'll have trouble
[14:08] <daveake> but fortunately dbrooke is near the landing spot and will be uplinking from there :)
[14:09] <fab4space> good, what aerials do you plan to use, only omni ?
[14:09] <daveake> So between us, fingers crossed, it shouldn't be too bad
[14:09] <daveake> I have 3 Yagis :)
[14:09] <fab4space> 868 yagis are compact
[14:11] <craag> Have you got rob listening in?
[14:11] Action: SpeedEvil idly ponders arrays of antennas using precisely spaced bovines.
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> Moobounce.
[14:12] <mattbrejza> daveake: are hobbycraft still selling those polystrene boxes?
[14:12] <daveake> yes
[14:13] <daveake> craag - I don't know who else will be listening
[14:13] <mattbrejza> they must have just run out last time i was theer
[14:13] <daveake> If it's a store I've been to, then yes they'd be sold out :)
[14:13] <fab4space> lol
[14:14] <daveake> They're cheap, light and a nice size
[14:14] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: I was in Hobbycraft last weekend and kept an eye out - found the eggs but not the boxes :(
[14:14] <AndyEsser> daveake: I did think of you when I was there
[14:14] <daveake> You do need RA plugs for the PITS though, otherwise the cables are a bit tight
[14:14] <AndyEsser> "I wonder if they have a Dave Akerman shrine in all Hobbycraft stores"
[14:15] <mattbrejza> http://www.hobbycraft.co.uk/hobbycraft-polystyrene-box-with-flat-lid/591590-1000 still listed
[14:15] <daveake> This is all very odd. 20 hours till launch and I seem to be ready.
[14:15] <daveake> Order 10 for free delivery :)
[14:16] <AndyEsser> daveake: is it usually kick bollock scramble?
[14:16] <daveake> It's usually getting up at 6 to finish off
[14:16] <daveake> I don't do the student all-nighters
[14:16] <AndyEsser> heh
[14:17] <edmoore> i did an allnighter at work recently, first time in about a year
[14:17] <edmoore> took me about 3 days to recover
[14:17] <daveake> hah
[14:17] <edmoore> age is shit, i don;t recommend it
[14:17] <AndyEsser> I frequently do all nighters about 2-3 times a month
[14:17] <AndyEsser> but purely because of noisy neighbours keeping me up, so deciding to get up and actually be productive
[14:17] <daveake> yeah I'm beyond the point (by which I mean, age) that overall productivity goes down if I work very long hours
[14:17] <edmoore> i love being in the zone but i also love consistant regulat sleep
[14:17] <edmoore> regular*
[14:18] <edmoore> i also now don;t sleep well if i've been out that eve, which is another new and annoying thing
[14:18] <daveake> At Uni I spent months not-quite-finishing a Z80 computer I made on veroboard. One ebening, after a couple of beers, I decided to stay up till it worked. 7am.
[14:19] <edmoore> that's not bad actually
[14:19] <AndyEsser> I did an all-nighter at uni to write an exporter from 3ds Max for a custom binary format
[14:19] <AndyEsser> the most depressing bit is when your alarm goes off at 7am or whatever for when you're supposed to be waking up
[14:19] <edmoore> it can be satisfying to nail something and sometimes i find i actually only start to make progress on something if i have a sort of contiguous 12-hour block of time in which to throw myself at it
[14:20] <daveake> yeah, I do like having a target and nothing else to think about
[14:20] <edmoore> at school a double lesson (like 1hr 20) seemed an absolute age, too long really, in which you could get loads of work done
[14:20] <edmoore> now if i only have an hr 20 i think there's no point even starting something
[14:21] <daveake> hah :)
[14:21] <daveake> I'm not good at changing tack. e.g. if I'm working solid on some project and get it done at 4pm, I just stop work for the day.
[14:22] <daveake> Can't persuade my head to start anything else
[14:22] <AndyEsser> daveake: Yea, at work if I finish something around 4pm, I rarely start something new, just do the odd bits of support/maintenance and that's it
[14:23] <gonzo_> the real work starts at 4pm. Before that it is just the thing that pays the bills
[14:24] <daveake> :-)
[14:24] <edmoore> i think jim williams said
[14:25] <edmoore> 'My work lab is where I do my job, my home lab is where I do my work'
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[14:28] <Ian_> AndyEsser re your lovely Kicad diagram, what exactly is the purpose of D2, D3 and won't they complicate matters at all?
[14:29] <AndyEsser> Ian_: two secs
[14:29] <AndyEsser> D2 is polarity protection
[14:29] <AndyEsser> D3 is supposed to be so that I'm measuring the voltage of the backup battery, but I realise that might not work in the current configuration
[14:32] <habby> daveake - I am not putting the clear.txt in the right place again :(
[14:33] <habby> Where do I need to ensure it goes. (I know I'm making the same mistake as last time!)
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[14:33] <edmoore> linky AndyEsser?
[14:35] <daveake> in /boot
[14:35] <habby> Is the problem that I am using nano?
[14:35] <AndyEsser> http://www.eadyn.co.uk/circuit-design/
[14:35] <AndyEsser> @ edmoore
[14:35] <daveake> sudo echo hello > /boot/clear.txt
[14:36] <habby> I seem to remember something about ./boot ?
[14:36] <daveake> no
[14:37] <daveake> that's where people put it when they get it wrong :)
[14:37] <daveake> ditto editing pisky.txt
[14:37] <edmoore> "14:35 <habby> Is the problem that I am using nano?"
[14:37] <edmoore> this is a sort of pleasingly existential moment of self-awareness
[14:37] <habby> OK, thanks daveake. Will try after fox hunt tomorrow. good luck with your launch :)
[14:38] <habby> edmoore... :P
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[14:39] <AndyEsser> oof... I missing a junction by D2
[14:39] <AndyEsser> as it stands the battery powers a very lovely voltage divider and nothing else :)
[14:40] <habby> Upu - I'm setting off to see you now...
[14:40] <Upu> see you in 30-40
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[14:40] <edmoore> i like the company name
[14:40] <Ian_> Sorry, I got disconnected Andy. Just read the backlog to catch up
[14:41] <AndyEsser> Ian_: np
[14:41] <AndyEsser> be back in about 5 mins
[14:46] <AndyEsser> back
[14:46] <AndyEsser> edmoore: as in my company name?
[14:47] <Ian_> Just looking at D3, it seems that you will be measuring the battery and the 3.3V supply, both of which will have the measurement skewed?
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[14:47] <AndyEsser> Ian_: because of link to the RTC (DS1337)?
[14:48] <AndyEsser> I suspect that D3 should go on the V_BACKUP 'feed' into the RTC and then GPS V_BCKP pin so as to keep it isolated
[14:48] <Ian_> Yes
[14:48] <edmoore> AndyEsser: yes
[14:48] <AndyEsser> edmoore: thanks
[14:48] <AndyEsser> Ian_: thanks for the headsup - you're absolutely right :)
[14:49] <Ian_> It does mean that the voltage is squiffed rather than the reading, but Meh? Can't have it both ways.
[14:49] <AndyEsser> schottky diodes have a lower voltage drop, I believe?
[14:49] <AndyEsser> normal diodes are about 0.7v if I remember back to my GCSE Electronics lessons
[14:50] <Ian_> Not so much a heads up, but a self taught electronics fan that likes to understand. that my lack of comprehension is actually an error is perhaps fortunate.
[14:50] <AndyEsser> another set of eyes is always good
[14:50] <AndyEsser> edmoore: do you remember Beaver (Alex Wray) from Cranleigh?
[14:51] <AndyEsser> This guy had a great habit of either making ridiculous or borderline retarded suggestions but it always seem to trigger a better idea, or a solution in my mind :)
[14:51] <AndyEsser> It's the good old "Rubber Duck Debugging" from programming
[14:52] <Ian_> Schottky diode forward voltage drop should be good down to 0.2V, but some are as much as 0.5V I guess you get what you pay for!
[14:52] <edmoore> AndyEsser: of course i remember
[14:52] <Ian_> Edmoore, I'll try not to be borderline retarded :)
[14:52] <edmoore> beaver was smart though
[14:53] <edmoore> maybe not practical
[14:53] <edmoore> but smart
[14:53] <Ian_> That probably lets me out completely
[14:53] <edmoore> what are you discussing on the diodes front?
[14:53] <AndyEsser> Kind of guy who could probably fully comprehend the universe in his mind
[14:53] <AndyEsser> but would be hit by a car crossing the road
[14:53] <edmoore> i will be a3rd pair of eyes
[14:53] <AndyEsser> D3 on my circuit diagram
[14:53] <edmoore> the car would not fair well though
[14:53] <edmoore> beaver was large
[14:53] <AndyEsser> it's in the wrong place, meaning my voltage divider for measuring the voltage of my backup battery would actually be measuring a joint +3v3 and Backup battery voltage
[14:53] <edmoore> what are the coordinates of d3?
[14:53] <AndyEsser> edmoore: ouch... harsh
[14:54] <edmoore> no but he was
[14:54] <edmoore> like not just fat, though he was, but large
[14:54] <AndyEsser> A.8,4.7
[14:54] <edmoore> yeah don't do it like that
[14:55] <edmoore> put it in parallel with one of the resistors
[14:55] <edmoore> what value are those resistors?
[14:55] <AndyEsser> I haven't calculated them yet - I need to get the range down to 0v->1.1v so divide by about 3
[14:55] <Ian_> I was merely browsing Andy's Kidad circuit. Gleaned the ZXCT1009 as a component that I am not, yet, familiar with
[14:55] <AndyEsser> lots of Resistorv alues need calculating
[14:55] <edmoore> also don't make it a schottkey there
[14:55] <edmoore> they do have a lower voltage dropout yes, but at the cost of a much much higher leakage current
[14:55] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[14:56] <edmoore> this will deflect current out of your potential divider and give you spaffed readings
[14:56] <edmoore> just a conventional small-signal one will do you
[14:57] <AndyEsser> ok cheers :)
[14:57] <AndyEsser> same for D1 and D2 from the battery/micro-usb I guess as well
[14:57] <mattbrejza> the ds3234 is much better than the 1337 btw
[14:57] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: in what sense?
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[14:57] <mattbrejza> has a tcxo built into it
[14:58] <AndyEsser> Ian_: the ZXCT was recommended for monitoring current consumption - haven't used or tested it myself
[14:58] <markireland> Hello - can someone reset my hourly prediction password please?
[14:58] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: ok yea - that in itself is enough rason to switch :)
[14:58] <markireland> http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/stratodean/
[14:58] <AndyEsser> reason*
[14:58] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: you'll likely want #habhub for that
[14:58] <edmoore> see what i've done here https://www.dropbox.com/s/sigx3jv71yyuure/Screenshot%202016-02-25%2014.58.04.png?dl=0
[14:58] <Ian_> AFK gotta collect the xyl from the hospital.
[14:59] <mattbrejza> btw AndyEsser the zxct part has some extra notes on a few additional components you can add to increase noise immunity
[14:59] <mattbrejza> see the bottom of the datasheet
[15:00] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: ta - will review it when I get home
[15:00] <edmoore> note i've added a cap too for a bit of smoothing
[15:00] <AndyEsser> edmoore: hmm, will look into that
[15:00] <AndyEsser> although if I were to do that, it would still be measuring V_BATT + +3v3
[15:00] <AndyEsser> I need to actually isolate off the V_BATT after measuring it
[15:00] <AndyEsser> so likely move D3 to where the V_BACKUP label is just above it's current location
[15:02] <edmoore> i don't really understand i don't think
[15:02] <AndyEsser> I suspect it's my lack of good explanation/understanding that is muddling things
[15:02] <AndyEsser> let me draw a diagram
[15:03] <mattbrejza> what was the point of D3?
[15:03] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: to make sure I'm measuring the V_BATT voltage not the combined V_BATT and +3v3 lines
[15:03] <AndyEsser> since the two are linked at the RTC
[15:03] <mattbrejza> ohj right
[15:03] <mattbrejza> didnt notice that
[15:03] <mattbrejza> the 3234 doesnt have that btw
[15:04] <AndyEsser> doesn't have what?
[15:04] <AndyEsser> does it have a dedicated backup pin?
[15:04] <mattbrejza> it has a dedicated vbat pin
[15:05] <edmoore> in other news this insulated screwdriver is quite nice
[15:05] <edmoore> i might get another pozi one
[15:05] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: ah cool - yet another reason to switch :)
[15:07] <AndyEsser> edmoore: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/ead-data/blog/media/2016/february/IMG_20160225_150521.jpg
[15:07] <AndyEsser> this is an idea of what I need to actually do
[15:07] <AndyEsser> to ensure I'm measuring the correct voltage (just the battery)
[15:07] <edmoore> ok
[15:07] <edmoore> but note then that you're no longer reverse polarity protected
[15:07] <mattbrejza> that would still power the rest of the 3.3V rail when the main battery has been removed, unless you add another diode
[15:07] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: only because the two rails are linked in the current design
[15:08] <AndyEsser> if I move to your recommend RTC - that should avoid that, right?
[15:08] <mattbrejza> yea
[15:08] <edmoore> except that at least the atmega has io protection diodes
[15:08] <AndyEsser> edmoore: correct - I could add another Diode in, or I guess hope that people don't install the battery backwards...
[15:08] <mattbrejza> also youre gonna have to choose pretty massive resistors so that the current drain of the potential divider doesnt reduce the life too much
[15:08] <edmoore> so provided the R values are largeish you might survive letting just a small current flow through them
[15:08] <AndyEsser> ok cool :)
[15:08] <edmoore> 'i hope that people don't install the battry backwards'
[15:09] <edmoore> this is called technical debt
[15:09] <AndyEsser> hehe
[15:09] <edmoore> and in hab bailifss come and punch you in the face without knocking
[15:09] <AndyEsser> so your circuit - prevents reverse polarity?
[15:09] <edmoore> if you want polarity protection with very low voltage drop then you can use a p-channel mosfet
[15:10] <edmoore> though 3V might be lowish for such a thing
[15:10] <AndyEsser> I need to figure out what the minimum voltages for the GPS and the RTC backup pins is
[15:10] <edmoore> yeah everything i build has polarity protection usually
[15:10] <edmoore> and overcurrent prtection
[15:10] <AndyEsser> since the CR2032 is only 3v so any drop might actually end up being useless
[15:10] <edmoore> and esd protection
[15:10] <edmoore> that's why our stuff works well in harsh conditions
[15:10] <AndyEsser> I could actually do overcurrent protection fairly easily...
[15:10] <AndyEsser> how does one do ESD protection?
[15:10] <AndyEsser> I presume that's on the inputs and stuff?
[15:11] <mattbrejza> you could always get a battery holder which doesnt allow you to put hte battery in the wrong way
[15:11] <edmoore> depends on the application. there's esd and there's esd
[15:11] <mattbrejza> or rather if you put it in the wrong way what you actually do is short the battery
[15:11] <edmoore> hey hey hold on now
[15:11] <edmoore> this thing is running off a coin cell?
[15:12] <AndyEsser> not the whole tracker
[15:12] <mattbrejza> i was referring to hte backup battery
[15:12] <edmoore> oh phew
[15:12] <AndyEsser> coin cell is purely for the RTC and the GPS
[15:12] <edmoore> sorry i'll try and keep up better
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[15:13] <AndyEsser> main power is either external, or a 3.7v lithium
[15:13] <edmoore> coolio
[15:14] <AndyEsser> I need an external power sense pin
[15:14] <AndyEsser> but I have 6 spare io pins on the AVR so that's easy enough
[15:14] <edmoore> i have not done this but i like the idea of an external power umbilical that switches over glitchlessly to internal/external power as you unplug/plug it in
[15:14] <AndyEsser> (other than the umbilical bit) this is basically what I'm planning
[15:14] <mattbrejza> ive done that for cameras but not for trackers
[15:14] <AndyEsser> during setup, power is drawn from the microusb from laptop or car supply or something
[15:15] <AndyEsser> when disconnected it _should_ switch to the battery without a drop, I hope
[15:15] <craag> AndyEsser: are you still just connecting the usb to charge the lipo?
[15:15] <craag> then running everything off the lipo?
[15:15] <AndyEsser> craag: as it stands, if there's both battery and LiPo they will both be 'powering' the +3v3 rail - with the charging IC determining whether to charge the battery itself
[15:16] <craag> both be powering?
[15:16] <craag> diode-or?
[15:17] <AndyEsser> well both the battery +ve and the usb +ve join just before the regulator...
[15:17] <AndyEsser> which given the usb will be at 5v
[15:17] <AndyEsser> might cause it's own problems...
[15:17] <craag> I've built a few units with charger -> lipo -> 3.3V reg, just for power backup, works nicely.
[15:17] <craag> eh yeah that sounds bad
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[15:17] <craag> draw a schematic :)
[15:17] Action: AndyEsser ponders
[15:17] <AndyEsser> craag: I have :)
[15:17] <AndyEsser> https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/ead-data/blog/media/2016/february/tracker_circuit.png
[15:18] <craag> How does the batt power the circuit?
[15:18] <AndyEsser> the erm.. .missing junction I haven't put in :P
[15:18] <craag> lol
[15:18] <AndyEsser> although actually, it should be a junction there anyway
[15:18] <mattbrejza> should ID be grounded? on usb
[15:19] <AndyEsser> but in stead a separate rail up to the regulator, so that the IC is definitely only powered when there's external power
[15:19] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: specs say either tied to ground, floating, or via a resistor if you're actually using it as an IC
[15:19] <AndyEsser> so I just tied it to ground
[15:19] <mattbrejza> k
[15:19] <AndyEsser> s/IC/ID
[15:19] Action: AndyEsser I need to review the entire power section of this
[15:20] <craag> Ok, so D1/D2 form a diode-or switch?
[15:20] <craag> You'd need to watch the voltage drop across D2
[15:20] <AndyEsser> errm haven't designed it that way - D1 is general polarity protection
[15:20] <craag> ok
[15:20] <craag> except for the lipo charger :P
[15:21] <AndyEsser> D2 is polarity protection from the battery
[15:21] <craag> ok
[15:21] <AndyEsser> and yes, voltage drop on D2 is a concern
[15:21] <AndyEsser> and yea, the charging IC isn't polarity-protected
[15:21] <AndyEsser> I really do need to review this whole section
[15:21] <craag> yep
[15:21] <AndyEsser> too much wrong, or accidentally deleted
[15:22] <craag> Think about the functionality you want, then work out how to implement it
[15:23] <craag> You may find that with 5V, lipo charging, and 3.3V all being rather close, that diodes became a bit of a nuisance.
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[15:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> 868MHz aerial just turned up so might be able to track PI868 tomorrow!
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[15:24] <AndyEsser> craag: cheers
[15:24] <AndyEsser> will sit and ponder what I actually want and how it'll work then revisit the schematic
[15:24] <craag> :)
[15:25] <craag> reverse polarity on a usb input isn't something I've ever worried about much tbh
[15:25] <AndyEsser> guess it's kind of ok with the connector being designed to only work one way
[15:25] <craag> as long as you aren't making your own upstream kit that you (or others) are likely to get wrong
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[15:26] <craag> equally the lipo *should* be non-reversable, and the charging chip needs bidirectional current anyway.
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[15:27] <craag> maybe you could look for a reverse-polarity protected regulator instead to protect stuff downstream.
[15:28] <AndyEsser> "charging chip needs bidirectional current anyway" yea, that's why the battery output from the IC is the upstream side of the polarity diode
[15:28] <craag> yep :)
[15:28] <AndyEsser> polarity protected regulator might be an idea, depending on complication and cost
[15:29] <craag> I know that the mcp1700 gets rather hot when reversed :P
[15:29] <AndyEsser> internal heating device for the payload :)
[15:29] <craag> did work again afterwards though....
[15:30] <craag> was 3x crappy AAs, not a lipo though..
[15:43] <mattbrejza> that diode is to 'OR' the power supplies though?
[16:00] <AndyEsser> sorry, was AFK
[16:00] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: not specifically - they were there primarily as polarity protection, and to prevent the USB discharging into the battery
[16:00] <AndyEsser> but that whole section needs to be redone, too much wrong with it
[16:09] <AndyEsser> so.. to get around the +3v3 and +5v issue.. I'm thinking a 2nd power regulator (ie one for each input)... which since when on battery the +5v regulator will be unpowered, wouldn't cause any extra heat/current draw
[16:09] <AndyEsser> is that a bit extreme?
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[16:12] <mattbrejza> http://imgur.com/OzGQw45
[16:12] <AndyEsser> that is a beautiful diagram :)
[16:12] <mattbrejza> is an initial design
[16:12] <mattbrejza> but the diode from the battery to teh regulator may drop too much
[16:12] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: that still results in a +5v rail and +3v rail being tied together after the dioes
[16:12] <AndyEsser> diodes*
[16:12] <mattbrejza> yea but thats what the diodes are for
[16:13] <AndyEsser> What would the voltage at that point be then?
[16:13] <mattbrejza> the highest of the two
[16:13] <AndyEsser> Ok fine
[16:13] <AndyEsser> wasn't sure if that was the case, or you end up with like +5v + +3.7v = 8.7v
[16:13] <AndyEsser> or something funky
[16:13] <AndyEsser> :)
[16:13] <AndyEsser> not sure I've ever had 'wires' at different voltages joined
[16:13] <AndyEsser> haha
[16:15] <mattbrejza> http://imgur.com/9oqyrzO is an improvment
[16:16] <mattbrejza> since now there is very little drop on the battery diode
[16:16] <mattbrejza> na, the diode mixing just does max(A,B)
[16:16] <AndyEsser> J2 is the battery?
[16:16] <mattbrejza> yea
[16:16] <AndyEsser> and is that a mosfet at Q2?
[16:16] <mattbrejza> yea
[16:16] <mattbrejza> p chan
[16:17] <AndyEsser> I presume the resitor down to ground is part of the p-chan mosfet setup?
[16:17] <mattbrejza> yea
[16:18] <AndyEsser> then the wire off to the right would go into the regulator?
[16:18] <mattbrejza> yea
[16:18] <AndyEsser> cool thanks
[16:18] Action: AndyEsser saves
[16:20] <craag> nice
[16:20] <craag> BSS81?
[16:20] <mattbrejza> 84
[16:20] <mattbrejza> dont pay too much attention to the part number
[16:21] <craag> hmm 1.7V threshold, nice
[16:21] Action: craag saves
[16:21] <mattbrejza> that part number may just be because thats what was in the eagle libraries
[16:21] <craag> ah yeh
[16:21] <fab4space> daveake, Upu
[16:21] <craag> tis only 0.13A
[16:21] <craag> :(
[16:21] <fab4space> new antennas for ISM
[16:22] <fab4space> http://www.taoglas.com/taoglas-launches-low-power-wide-area-lpwa-antenna-category-for-m2m-and-iot-markets/
[16:22] <fab4space> both for device and stations
[16:22] <mattbrejza> NX2301 is what it actually was
[16:22] <fab4space> good colinear 8dBi for 868: http://www.taoglas.com/product/barracuda-omb-868-08f21-868mhz-8dbi-omni-directional-outdoor-antenna/
[16:22] <fab4space> they call them "lora antennas" , marketing marketing :)
[16:23] <Ian_> Andy, your pencil sketch a little while ago. when you display it rotated it does my head in slightly - just for the info. Matt's scribbled one whilst less elegant was easier to digest. Then he got very neat . . . :)
[16:23] <AndyEsser> Ian_: because the battery was on the right?
[16:23] <Ian_> Originally the question was supposed to be very innocent . . .
[16:23] <craag> 2A .75v thresh, nice. ta mattbrejza ;)
[16:23] <Ian_> No because it was rotated from the norm
[16:23] <AndyEsser> in what way?
[16:24] <Ian_> 90 degrees anti clock
[16:25] <Ian_> Sometimes people put up significant diagrams and rotate them because they think it's a better fit and brains go AAAAW. Not difficult but awkward to digest
[16:25] <Ian_> Make sense?
[16:25] <daveake> fab4space Ta. Not many 868 collinears around.
[16:25] <edmoore> iain is definitely right
[16:26] <edmoore> i am tuned to singal paths going left to right
[16:26] <craag> 1.5m long and 8dBi gain..
[16:26] <craag> might be telling the truth for once :P
[16:26] <AndyEsser> I'm confused...
[16:26] <daveake> hah
[16:26] <AndyEsser> the v_sense is left-right
[16:26] <AndyEsser> the +v rail is left-right
[16:26] <fab4space> it is called barracuda for a reason :)
[16:26] <AndyEsser> the only vertical bit is the voltage divider and the battery
[16:26] <AndyEsser> which is how I've always known it
[16:27] <AndyEsser> \lastlog eadyn.co.uk
[16:27] <fab4space> The antenna
[16:27] <fab4space> has a
[16:27] <fab4space> n
[16:27] <fab4space> 8dBi high peak
[16:27] <fab4space> gain
[16:27] <fab4space> , providing
[16:27] <fab4space> the
[16:27] <fab4space> largest
[16:27] <fab4space> coverage area
[16:27] <fab4space> for
[16:27] <fab4space> Low Power Radi
[16:27] <fab4space> o (UNB Sigfox, LPRN, LoRA)
[16:27] <fab4space> arggg
[16:27] <fab4space> sorry
[16:27] <edmoore> habku?
[16:27] <Ian_> https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/ead-data/blog/media/2016/february/IMG_20160225_150521.jpg
[16:28] <fab4space> everytime I copy paste on irc I made a mistake :)
[16:28] <Ian_> ^^ rotated clockwise 90 degrees is ideal.
[16:28] <edmoore> irccloud might help you fab4space
[16:28] <edmoore> it's very good and has things like automatic pastebin for large pastes
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[16:29] <AndyEsser> edmoore: right... when I open it in chrome it's one way
[16:29] <AndyEsser> but downloading and opening it, it needs to be 90 degrees anti-clock rotated
[16:29] <AndyEsser> Ian_: which edge do you see the pen being on?
[16:29] <Ian_> Left vertically orientated
[16:29] <AndyEsser> yea, that's not how I see it
[16:29] <AndyEsser> the pen is along the top for me
[16:30] <Ian_> If it were for me then I would be :)
[16:30] <AndyEsser> right, this is where the confusion is then :)
[16:30] <AndyEsser> http://imgur.com/P5GAhEz
[16:30] <AndyEsser> So this is the correct way?
[16:30] <Ian_> Magic at work. I hadn't realised such rotations were gratuitously foisted upon us to cause confusion. I'll live with it, for sure
[16:31] <Ian_> That was GOOD
[16:31] Action: AndyEsser makes note to draw up arrow on all future diagrams :)
[16:31] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[16:31] <AndyEsser> Yea, that's who I've always seen the photo until I downloaded it
[16:31] <AndyEsser> ha
[16:31] <AndyEsser> how*
[16:31] <AndyEsser> Ian_: are you on a Mac?
[16:32] <edmoore> i'm on a mac
[16:32] <AndyEsser> I know that much
[16:32] <edmoore> chome on osx
[16:32] <fab4space> edmoore, I will check irccloud thanks
[16:32] <Ian_> No, SUSE Linux
[16:32] <AndyEsser> I was wondering if that was the common factor
[16:33] <AndyEsser> Firefox on Ubuntu shows it correct as well
[16:33] <AndyEsser> hmm
[16:33] <AndyEsser> weird
[16:33] <Ian_> Firefox . . . all very much in need of an update
[16:34] <edmoore> cheap source of say 3-el handheld 868mhz yagis?
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[16:43] <daveake> £16 ebay
[16:45] <stilldavid> http://i.imgur.com/lJUpsBg.gifv
[16:45] <stilldavid> from Sunday's launch here in CO
[16:46] <edmoore> nice capture stilldavid
[16:46] <AndyEsser> that's awesome
[16:46] <edmoore> is the radar reflector a requirement?
[16:47] <stilldavid> not absolutely required, but this was a large payload anyway.
[16:47] <stilldavid> figured it wouldn't hurt - it was still a waiver exempt launch
[16:48] <stilldavid> flew the rfm23bp, it worked alright except when we were near some high voltage transmission wires for whatever reason
[16:48] <stilldavid> I also learned a valuable lesson about trespassing...
[16:48] <AndyEsser> stilldavid: what camera is that?
[16:49] <stilldavid> AndyEsser that was taken with a hero4 black 1080p120, the camera in frame is a hero4 session
[16:49] <stilldavid> https://stilldavid.com/burst.mp4
[16:49] <edmoore> what was the valuable lesson?
[16:49] <edmoore> don't get caught?
[16:49] <AndyEsser> hmm, not the cheapest cameras :)
[16:49] <stilldavid> well, no matter how far you are from a house, always ask permission from the closest one.
[16:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> daveake, with the new gateway software does the station location Icon appear immiedately for you? Mine is reporting sent but nothing appearing ?
[16:50] <stilldavid> we hopped a fence and with the payload in sight we got chased off the property by a VERY stern man with a VERY large gun.
[16:51] <stilldavid> his house was 3/4 a mile up a creek, he just happened to be out walking the property dressed in all camo and a gun
[16:51] <stilldavid> turned out alright, he got in touch later and gave us an earful about property rights
[16:52] <stilldavid> AndyEsser I get 'em on craigslist, usually pay ~half.
[16:52] <stilldavid> that hero session was $80 usd
[16:52] <AndyEsser> o sweet
[16:52] <stilldavid> but turns out the session has pretty terribly battery life in the cold.
[16:54] <edmoore> stilldavid: fair enough
[16:55] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: hmm, the DS3234 is SPI not I2C :(
[16:55] <edmoore> we have fewer such problems in the UK
[16:55] <mattbrejza> AndyEsser: anther reason its better ;)
[16:55] <edmoore> hey AndyEsser i think you have a typo
[16:55] <edmoore> should be
[16:55] <edmoore> mattbrejza: hmm, the DS3234 is SPI not I2C :)
[16:56] <mattbrejza> i think the 3232 is i2c or something like that
[16:56] <AndyEsser> hmm... nothing I have uses SPI so now I need to re-engineer the WHOLE THING
[16:56] <AndyEsser> also, what's with the hate for i2c?
[16:56] <edmoore> it's nasty
[16:56] <edmoore> very stateful
[16:57] <edmoore> electrically annoying - one dead node can bring the whole bus down
[16:57] <edmoore> dead/hung/whatever
[16:57] <edmoore> it's basically shit
[16:57] <AndyEsser> hmm, fair enough
[16:57] <AndyEsser> I'll modify the SPI stuff on the AVR then to handle more than just the ISP connector
[16:57] <mattbrejza> yea DS3232 if you insist on i2c
[16:58] <edmoore> that requires some resistors to act as buffers. I2c is alright but i wouldn't use it for critical stuff
[16:58] <edmoore> hang a string of housekeeping temp sensors off it or something
[16:58] <AndyEsser> like erm... the GPS? :P
[16:58] <edmoore> but perhaps not a cutdown board
[16:58] <edmoore> well, hope for the best
[16:58] <AndyEsser> this is only the v1 tracker
[16:58] <edmoore> it's probably fine on a hab. I'd avoid it on a cubesat tho, for example
[16:58] <AndyEsser> it'll be retired and fulfill the role of backup trackers when I move to a nice proper ARM CPU
[16:59] <stilldavid> in my experience the i2c bus locks up ~30% of the time on a flight for whatever reason.
[16:59] <AndyEsser> hmmm
[16:59] <AndyEsser> right, time to head off
[16:59] <stilldavid> it's only weather stuff for me, but still annoying.
[17:00] <AndyEsser> then I shall review and rework the schematic later
[17:00] <AndyEsser> moving the GPS over to UART complicates my code
[17:00] <AndyEsser> I might try it on i2c and see how it goes
[17:00] <mattbrejza> use a 328B with two serial ports?
[17:00] <AndyEsser> boards shouldn't really cost too much anyway so if I lose them all - meh
[17:00] <AndyEsser> :)
[17:01] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: maybe - had looked at the 644 as well
[17:01] <AndyEsser> it's just there's more and more stuff now that I've not prototyped/tested which is making me uncomfortable :(
[17:01] <edmoore> the 644 is nice
[17:01] <mattbrejza> i think the 328B is meant as a compatible replacement for the non-B though
[17:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD9EAE-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD9EAE-11
[17:07] <Laurenceb> people still use avr
[17:07] <Laurenceb> I'm confused
[17:09] <Laurenceb> the current year
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[17:12] <edmoore> they still work
[17:13] <stilldavid> I used an M0 for the first time this launch.
[17:13] <edmoore> they are simple to configure and have decent toolchain support, datasheets are very good, quiescent curent in deep sleep beats the pants off most little arms i've seen
[17:13] Action: stilldavid imagines T-Rex with little arms
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[17:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03car1_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=car1_chase
[17:43] <Rebounder> stilldavid: nice capture! :)
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[17:44] <stilldavid> thanks Rebounder !
[17:44] <stilldavid> next time I'll try to aim the camera better :)
[17:45] <Rebounder> stilldavid: wherefrom? frozen lake at least :)
[17:45] <stilldavid> I'm in Colorado, launch was from a public park. About 0°C when we let go
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[17:46] <Rebounder> stilldavid: ah
[17:48] <stilldavid> https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3302314,-104.2504958,16100m/data=!3m1!1e3
[17:48] <stilldavid> I believe it's that reservoir
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[17:51] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb: the AVR does it's job and is small and easy
[17:51] <AndyEsser> why add complication to a simple requirement?
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[18:06] <habby> daveake I still can't get clear.txt to delete files. There is a head sized dint in front of me on my workdesk
[18:20] <daveake> Just delete them manually then
[18:26] <habby> Have had to revert to doing that.
[18:26] <habby> I have done: sudo nano /boot/clear.txt
[18:26] <habby> also sudo vi /boot/clear.txt
[18:26] <daveake> just the echo is simplest
[18:26] <habby> and done that in the pits folder as well as the root /boot
[18:27] <R34lB0rg> that's just two different editors
[18:27] <habby> Yes, R3. I know.
[18:27] <habby> But I am near to throwing the keyboard through the window ;)
[18:27] <habby> I take it the clear.txt needs to be in pits/boot
[18:27] <habby> ?
[18:28] <habby> Not root /boot
[18:29] <habby> When I do sudo echo hello > /boot/clear.txt I get 'Permission denied'
[18:29] <R34lB0rg> https://github.com/PiInTheSky/pits/issues/10
[18:29] <R34lB0rg> maybe related?
[18:29] <habby> I think that is someone misunderstanding the recursive nature of rm -rf
[18:29] <daveake> If you get permission denied then you missed the sudo
[18:29] <daveake> quite likely
[18:30] <daveake> just delete the jpegs manually
[18:30] <R34lB0rg> habby, sudo bash then echo "hello" >/boot/clear.txt
[18:30] <habby> Nope. got the sudo in there
[18:30] <R34lB0rg> habby, otherwise your use bash tries to open the file and fails
[18:31] <R34lB0rg> habby, most people use "echo hello | sudo tee /boot/clear.txt" today
[18:33] <habby> So, the clear.txt should be in pits/boot/ or root boot?
[18:33] <habby> Thanks R3
[18:34] <daveake> in /boot
[18:35] <habby> That got me going without permission denied errors, R3
[18:35] <habby> OK, will try root boot
[18:35] <habby> I'm sure I didn't have to do all this last time(!)
[18:36] <R34lB0rg> habby, because tee is running with root permissions and can open the file
[18:37] <daveake> From our convo on 20th Jan:
[18:37] <daveake> [10:08] <daveake> sudo vi /boot/pisky.txt
[18:37] <daveake> [10:10] <daveake> If you put clear.txt in /home/pi/pits/boot then that would explain why it did nothing
[18:37] <daveake> [10:10] <habby> Got it. Was using GUI with students. My bad. Does that explain why the clear.txt not working?
[18:37] <R34lB0rg> echo + >redirection is used in a root shell
[18:37] <habby> Thanks daveake
[18:37] <daveake> np thought it was all familiar :)
[18:38] <daveake> Assuming tomorrow's flight is OK then I'll push the new version next week
[18:38] <daveake> Lots of new stuff
[18:39] <habby> Great! Does that include ability to incorporate sense hat data into telemetry string?
[18:39] <habby> Spoke to Anthony today and he gave me a LORA board :)
[18:39] <habby> Walk then run....
[18:41] <daveake> yes it has the sense hat interface
[18:42] <habby> V good news! thanks :)
[18:45] <R34lB0rg> daveake, have you considered having "@reboot screen -d -m" in crontab and starting send_aprs camera and tracker via .screenrc?
[18:45] <daveake> no
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[18:46] <LunarMobile> Hello
[18:46] <R34lB0rg> would make it easier to debug - connect to the screen session anytime later
[18:46] <LunarMobile> Train!
[18:46] <LunarMobile> :D
[18:46] <R34lB0rg> hello lunarlander
[18:48] <Rebounder> daveake: also ssdv in the flight tomorrow?
[18:48] <daveake> Only on LoRa
[18:49] <Rebounder> cool anyway, i'll be back home by 8 so have time to follow :)
[18:50] <habby> clear.txt in /boot. Restarted tracker (./tracker in /tracker) and old images still there. I am definitely doing something stupid. I am just too stupid to know what
[18:50] <daveake> no probably the code
[18:51] <daveake> just delete the files manually for now; I'll have a look next week
[18:51] <habby> Will do. Thanks daveake
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[19:57] <mfa298> "16:31 * AndyEsser makes note to draw up arrow on all future diagrams :)" - that sounds like a small step towards having "This page intentionally left blank" on bits of paper.
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[20:34] Action: Laurenceb_ is pissed
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> just got rejected by PLOS one
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> publishing sucks
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> 24 months work for nothing
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> I'm seriously glad I'm not pursuing an academic career
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[20:36] <Rebounder> Laurenceb_: publish somewhere else?
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> this is the 5th place I've tried
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> running out of options now, and wasted 14 months trying to get into PLOS
[20:37] <Rebounder> Laurenceb_: what's the main critic?
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> "work is insufficiently novel"
[20:37] <Rebounder> oh
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> as there is one similar paper from the 70s.. like wtf
[20:37] <chris_99> that's annoying :(
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> its on analysis of vehicle transport hazards and centralisation of hospital services
[20:39] <Laurenceb_> problem is its too multidisciplinary
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[20:42] <Laurenceb_> reviewers react negatively to things outside their area
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> I fear this is impossible
[20:44] <nick_> Give up on it.
[20:52] <R34lB0rg> Laurenceb_, Fermi first submitted his "tentative" theory of beta decay to the famous science journal Nature, which rejected it for being "too speculative."
[20:57] <mattbrejza> Laurenceb_: sometimes appealing to the editor can work if you feel the reviewers have been unfair as its not their area
[20:58] <mattbrejza> or try a multidisplinary journal
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[21:19] <Laurenceb_> yeah but there are only so many multidisplinary journals :-/
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[21:20] <mattbrejza> oh..
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[22:24] <AndyEsser> mfa298: it would've avoided confusion :)
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[23:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hr_v_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hr_v_chase
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[23:20] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml1RO4IcOG0
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> (stream with commentary)
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[23:39] <russss> stream without commentary is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HSb_yBnJXA
[23:40] <russss> apparently even though they have a 90min launch window, it's effectively instantaneous because of the deep cryo
[23:40] <russss> because if they hold they won't have enough time to launch before it's expanded too much
[23:41] <russss> so they have to detank and refill the oxidiser
[23:42] <fsphil> that stream has commentary too
[23:42] <russss> yeah the commentary guy is leaking into it
[23:42] <fsphil> ah that's better
[23:42] <SpeedEvil> It's not instantaneous.
[23:42] <SpeedEvil> It is really desired to be early.
[23:43] <SpeedEvil> And the spacecraft will be in a very-slightly-suboptimal trajectory if it's at the 90 mins
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> It is however important enough that scrubbing for a day means that the spacecraft may get into the final trajectory earlier if it's close to the end of the window due to holding for weather
[23:44] <russss> yeah but they also have a window defined by the deep cryo liquid oxygen
[23:45] <russss> which is apparently quite short
[23:45] <fsphil> abort
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> scrub
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> russss: It's not a 'window' so much as if it boils off it slightly degrades the delta-v
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[23:47] <russss> true
[23:47] <russss> the commentator said they likely wouldn't have time to recycle if there was a hold though
[23:47] <russss> as the dude has just said
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[23:49] <russss> oxidiser loading was too slow?
[23:49] <russss> this deep cryo stuff seems to be quite hard
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> I understood him saying that
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> why does cooler propellant increase performance?
[23:50] <russss> it's denser
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:50] <russss> by something like 5-10% for the temperature range they're talking about
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[23:51] <edmoore> more fuel per tankage deadweight
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good
[23:51] <edmoore> when i say fuel i of course mean oxidiser
[23:52] <russss> but AFAICT (I slightly missed what boring commentator dude was saying) their loading was too slow
[23:53] <russss> and once the tank is too warm you have to take it all out and refill with cold stuff
[23:54] <russss> they are pushing the performance budget with this launch because they're trying to give the satellite a boost as it's been delayed so much
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:56] <Lunar_Lander> back on an ariane launch I was wondering why they only have one hour to launch
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> and a friend said its due to the desired orbital position
[23:58] <russss> well, the SES satellite was due to launch on a F9 like 8 months ago, but then there was the mishap
[23:58] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:58] <russss> the satellite uses ion propulsion so it will usually take something like 6 months to get from GTO to GEO
[23:58] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[23:59] <russss> but since spacex now have this new powerful rocket they can theoretically give it a bit of a better orbit than SES originally paid for
[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> true
[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> I just read something that I didn't think about
[23:59] <russss> assuming they can master the arts of deep cryo
[00:00] --- Fri Feb 26 2016