highaltitude.log.20160219

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[02:57] <Ian_> http://www.smart2zero.com/en/free-online-ide-for-pic-mcus-is-offered-by-microchip.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=10006677&vID=1903&from_mail=1#.VsaENZV4mo8
[02:58] <Ian_> I don't know if this will be of interest to some, but hopefully so.
[03:02] <Ian_> And here is a free RTOS http://www.smart2zero.com/en/free-commercial-grade-rtos-offered-to-maker-community.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=10006673&vID=1903&from_mail=1#.VsaFSJV4mo8
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[06:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-12 after 0318 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-12
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[09:02] <AndyEsser> morning
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[09:14] <fsphil> g'morn
[09:16] <AndyEsser> o/
[09:16] <AndyEsser> why didn't I commit my schematic to git :(
[09:16] <AndyEsser> muppet
[09:29] <R34lB0rg> good morning people
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[09:58] <Ben-AstroSoc> o/
[10:01] <AndyEsser> o/
[10:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> the bandwidth on SDR# was set to 200000, might be why i wasnt seeing anything
[10:04] <AndyEsser> drop it right down, something like 2000
[10:04] <Ben-AstroSoc> yep, gonna retest after this lecture
[10:04] <AndyEsser> cool
[10:05] <AndyEsser> give us a shout if you need, I know that fsphil was very helpful for me - if he's around
[10:05] <Ben-AstroSoc> will do :)
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[10:06] <Vaizki> Ben-AstroSoc, 200kHz? are you sure it was on USB and not WFM..
[10:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> ...
[10:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> it was on WFM not USB
[10:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> oooook
[10:07] <AndyEsser> click the USB checkbox ;)
[10:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> have done >_>
[10:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> that might well ix it
[10:09] <Vaizki> USB = upper side band, meaning the audio output will reflect the signals between f and f+bw where f=tuned frequency and bw=bandwidth
[10:09] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah, covering some of this in comms systems
[10:10] <Vaizki> for LSB it's f-bw and f .. so quite simple
[10:11] <Vaizki> NTX2B is a FM transmitter but USB is used to receive.. the short version is: just do it. it works. the long version is quite a bit longer :)
[10:11] <Ben-AstroSoc> ill quiz you on the long version when i understand FM a bit more :)
[10:13] <Vaizki> well the NTX2B is being "misused" to generate a 2FSK signal, it's not an FM transmission
[10:14] <Vaizki> if it was real FM, then we would use the atmega to generate audio tones 425Hz apart and have that fed into the NTX2B for FM modulation.. and then recover those tones via NFM demod in SDR# and feed to dl-fldigi where it would be decoded
[10:14] <Vaizki> at least that is my understanding, anyone feel free to shoot me down :)
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[10:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> isn't 2FSK FM anyway since you're transmitting information via change of frequency?
[10:16] <Vaizki> of course FM receivers are much much more common than USB capable receivers so why are we using USB? the reason is of course that with such limited output power we don't want to waste any energy on carrier or duplicating the signal on both sides of it which is what FM does
[10:16] <Vaizki> so we get a lot more range per mW out of USB
[10:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> ooh yeah because carrier + modulating signal gives 2 frequency terms
[10:17] <eroomde> fsk is fm in as much as its modulating the frequency
[10:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> we're doing the hard math for it at the moment so it's hard to get my head around :')
[10:17] <Vaizki> well 2FSK is a digital mode which carrier one bit per symbol.. FM is an analog modulation where a signal is frequency modulated onto a carrier
[10:18] <Vaizki> there is no carrier in 2FSK
[10:18] <Vaizki> (right? :)
[10:18] <Ben-AstroSoc> ah, ok
[10:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> so it's a difference between using 2 distinct frequencies to directly transmit information instead of modulating it over a carrier
[10:19] <eroomde> yes
[10:19] <Vaizki> yes
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[10:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> gotcha
[10:20] <Vaizki> it's much easier to make a receiver that locks onto a carrier and then monitors the changes in it than to lock on to a series of blips spread out over spectrum
[10:21] <Vaizki> but you are blowing a lot of energy on the carrier and also the fact that the AM and FM modulations spread power on both sides of the carrier
[10:22] <AndyEsser> I really need to read up on my radio theory stuff
[10:22] <fsphil> I would say 2FSK has a carrier, but 0% of it gets transmitted at its frequency
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[10:22] <Vaizki> I have never read any theory so my ramblings should be salted and put in a barrel
[10:22] <fsphil> nor me :)
[10:23] <Ben-AstroSoc> i didn't know it'd take so much power to receive the signal; i know a small fraction of the modulated signal is actually in the frequency bands you want
[10:23] <Vaizki> I am good at lies to children and urban legend engineering
[10:24] <Vaizki> Ben-AstroSoc, didn't really get what you're saying there though :)
[10:25] <Vaizki> power to recieve the signal?
[10:25] <Ben-AstroSoc> if it doens't take pwoer to receive the signal why do we care about ohly watching the USB?
[10:26] <eroomde> if it only takes power to talk english why do we care about only listening in english?
[10:26] <Laurenceb_> http://dwb.unl.edu/Teacher/NSF/C01/C01Links/www.ualberta.ca/~bderksen/florin.html
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[10:29] <Vostok> what
[10:29] <Vaizki> Ben-AstroSoc, maybe read http://www.radiohobbyist.org/blog/?p=139 .. :)
[10:29] <Vaizki> I am no good at explaining
[10:29] <Ben-AstroSoc> '> of course FM receivers are much much more common than USB capable receivers so why are we using USB? the reason is of course that with such limited output power we don't want to waste any energy on carrier or duplicating the signal on both sides of it which is what FM does'
[10:29] <Ben-AstroSoc> i'll have a look
[10:29] <Rebounder> Vaizki: gotta have a go at rtl_fm and SSB sometime... seriously broken..
[10:30] <Vaizki> yes waste any energy on transmitting them
[10:30] <Vaizki> they don't contain any data
[10:30] <fsphil> I think you've mixed up FM with AM
[10:30] <Ben-AstroSoc> we've been mostly looking at DSB/DSB-SC so i've probably got the wrong end of the stick
[10:30] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah
[10:31] <craag> AFSK on FM has been tried at 10mW
[10:31] <Vaizki> well DSB has the carrier omitted so the 50% of power normally consumed by the carrier is available for the dual sidebands
[10:31] <Vaizki> but it still duplicates the data on both sides of the (nonexistent) carrier
[10:31] <Rebounder> rtty-skimmer would be nice to apply to wiiide USB :)
[10:31] <craag> It didn't quite have the link budget to get through the discriminator in the receiver
[10:32] <Vaizki> craag, at what symbol rate?
[10:32] <craag> 100bit/s iirc
[10:32] <craag> with 1/2 FEC
[10:32] <craag> so you alternated between 100% decode, and the receiver picking up absolutely nothing
[10:32] <craag> as it was on the edge of the discriminator threshold
[10:33] <Vaizki> so a SDR could have picked it up ok?
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[10:33] <craag> Maybe - the point of the experiment was to avoid the use of SDRs ;)
[10:33] <Vaizki> right
[10:33] <fsphil> don't resist :)
[10:33] <craag> and see if we could use FM car rigs, or even baofengs instead
[10:33] <craag> (for schools)
[10:34] <craag> baofeng into android app would have been nice and plug'n'play for them
[10:34] <Ben-AstroSoc> oki, think i get it
[10:34] <fsphil> yeah I doubt even making a minimal IQ demodulator > STM would beat the price of a baofeng
[10:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> SSB transmits 4x the power but needds to be coherent to demodulate
[10:35] <eroomde> ?
[10:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> http://www.radiohobbyist.org/blog/?p=139 was readin this
[10:36] <Vaizki> not sure if it's the best tutorial, but it had pictures ;)
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[10:37] <LunarWork> hello
[10:37] <fsphil> your transmitter has a fixed power output. SSB uses 100% (or near) of the energy to modulate the information
[10:37] <fsphil> the same output power with AM would put most of that energy into the useless carrier
[10:38] <R34lB0rg> Ben-AstroSoc, also take a look at JT9/JT65 for energy efficient transmission
[10:38] <fsphil> oh god don't even think about JT at this stage
[10:39] <Vaizki> :D
[10:39] <fsphil> FM I'm not sure about
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[10:40] <fsphil> I know it spreads the energy out, making background noise more of a problem
[10:41] <Vaizki> R34lB0rg, I think it's been mentioned before that you shouldn't send newbies on wild goose chases...
[10:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah there's an infinite set of frequency components with FM
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[10:44] <Ben-AstroSoc> forgot i'm supposed to know bessel functions for that
[10:45] <R34lB0rg> Vaizki, PS-55, PS-57 and PS-58 use JT9 - where is your problem?
[10:46] <Vaizki> yes, one guy who is like the damn reigning pope of pico balloons flies HF amateur radios that he's designed himself. and does it from Australia.
[10:46] <Vaizki> my problem is that it has nothing at all to do with Ben's project or anyone else who comes here to build a tracker
[10:47] <Laurenceb_> R34lB0rg: JT9 isnt very beginner friendly
[10:47] <Vaizki> not to mention illegal in the UK
[10:47] <Rebounder> R34lB0rg: JT9 etc is mostly designed for HF.
[10:47] <fsphil> Vaizki: not illegal, just it's use on HF
[10:47] <Vaizki> hehe
[10:47] <R34lB0rg> if one is talking about saving TX power, JT9 has to be mentioned
[10:47] <fsphil> there are even a few HF ISM bands
[10:47] <Rebounder> what? JT9 not allowed in uk??
[10:47] <fsphil> no modes are banned in the UK :)
[10:47] <Vaizki> I meant flying amateur radio is illegal
[10:48] <Vaizki> dammit
[10:48] <fsphil> lol
[10:48] <R34lB0rg> flying APRS is illegal in the uk AFAIR
[10:48] <Vostok> unless you fly with permission
[10:48] <Rebounder> :)
[10:48] <fsphil> APRS on 144.800 is not allowed
[10:48] <fsphil> APRS on 434.500 is perfectly fine
[10:48] <fsphil> though that should be illegal
[10:48] <daveake> :)
[10:48] <Rebounder> Vaizki: you never now what those brits come up with for new regulations.. ;)
[10:48] <Vaizki> APRS on 434.500 is not legal with the tx power usually used for aprs..
[10:48] <daveake> I thought 434.500 got allocated to Leo in the latest bandplan
[10:49] <R34lB0rg> so JT9&65 an 434MHz should be legal as well
[10:49] <fsphil> leoband
[10:49] <fsphil> R34lB0rg: yes. but pointless
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[10:49] <daveake> As is suggesting JT9 to a beginner
[10:49] <fsphil> the prime limitation on 434mhz is the earth's horizon
[10:50] <Rebounder> The DominoEX etc is better i guess, also for non-beginners
[10:50] <R34lB0rg> fsphil, I am very impressed with the SNR these can still decode - you could go with a rtl-sdr with the stock antenna
[10:50] <Vaizki> argh
[10:51] <fsphil> so anyway
[10:51] <Vaizki> moving on..
[10:51] <AndyEsser> Can we stick with RTTY on 434MHz SSB for the moment as that's what Ben-AstroSoc is using?
[10:51] <AndyEsser> rather than throw around lots of other information that might reduce the SNR
[10:51] <daveake> +1
[10:51] <R34lB0rg> AndyEsser, +1
[10:52] <fsphil> here's a cute puppy, http://i.imgur.com/eoc5fp2.jpg
[10:52] <Vaizki> ok sure I'm +1 too if R34lB0rg insists
[10:52] <Rebounder> fsphil: he doesn't look enough sad
[10:54] <R34lB0rg> http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/11/04/article-1225042-0711BCAC000005DC-579_634x428.jpg
[10:54] <Rebounder> anyone tried this skimmer? http://www.dxatlas.com/RTTYSkimServ/
[10:54] <fsphil> not heard of that
[10:55] <fsphil> just looks for callsigns?
[10:55] <Rebounder> probably, "CQ" etc
[10:56] <fsphil> wonder if it detects the rtty settings, or just limits itself to a few presets
[10:57] <fsphil> for HAB I like the idea of something like RSID, where a payload can transmit some code that a wideband receiver could listen out for
[10:58] <Rebounder> right
[11:02] <Rebounder> to begin with one could alter fldigi to allow wider input
[11:02] <fsphil> it may be easier to scrap fldigi totally
[11:02] <Vaizki> I did... and well.. there's a lot of magic numbers in the code
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[11:03] <R34lB0rg> it may be easier to build a new docoder based on rtl_fm
[11:03] <Vaizki> aaargh
[11:03] <fsphil> Vaizki: think of the puppy
[11:03] <Vaizki> I need a carpet bombing with puppies
[11:03] <LunarWork> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LNkLQsOiHs
[11:03] <fsphil> happy thoughts
[11:03] <LunarWork> balloon video
[11:04] <LunarWork> (don't know if already posted)
[11:04] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: https://goo.gl/RVAoq9
[11:04] <Vaizki> thank
[11:04] <Vaizki> +ssssss
[11:04] <fsphil> nice
[11:05] <fsphil> pixelated faces. now I want to know who they where :)
[11:05] <LunarWork> :D
[11:05] <R34lB0rg> LunarWork, great, thanks!
[11:05] <LunarWork> you're welcome
[11:05] <LunarWork> actually press dept. called earlier and asked why I censored it
[11:05] <fsphil> first launch from the top of a building that I've seen
[11:05] <LunarWork> I said that was due to reasons because I uploaded it and maybe one of the people didn't like that
[11:05] <LunarWork> and then she said "well we filmed too and no one complained"
[11:06] <craag> TIL LunarWork had edward snowden helping him launch
[11:06] <AndyEsser> I did think it was weird you blurred them, but o well ;)
[11:06] <fsphil> hah
[11:07] <R34lB0rg> AndyEsser, it's germany
[11:07] <fsphil> interesting whistle sound
[11:07] <fsphil> I thought it was coming from the ground but it's too high up now
[11:07] <LunarWork> :D
[11:08] <LunarWork> yeah I agree
[11:08] <LunarWork> maybe a train or so
[11:08] <R34lB0rg> that wire in the left of the picture is the antenna?
[11:08] <LunarWork> yes
[11:08] <R34lB0rg> LunarWork, did you have gyro/compass sensors?
[11:08] <Ben-AstroSoc> do you guys tend to run downwards pointing cameras or a mix then?
[11:09] <LunarWork> yes, we had this one https://www.pololu.com/product/2468
[11:09] <fsphil> the downwards ones can be interesting on clear days, or around sunrise/sunset when you get the long shadows on the ground
[11:10] <R34lB0rg> I wonder if there is some software yet to remove the rotation from a downward (or upward) pointing camera
[11:10] <Ben-AstroSoc> we're going to run a gopro and one of those tiny video cameras so was just wondering what tends to get the better pictures :)
[11:10] <fsphil> for pretty earth pics, out the side is better
[11:11] <Ben-AstroSoc> you can probably get stabilisation software R34lB0rg
[11:11] <fsphil> you get the horizon and the blue line of the atmosphere
[11:11] <LunarWork> uni just released their clip
[11:11] <fsphil> but aim it slightly downwards so you get more of the ground than the black sky
[11:11] <LunarWork> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsUxL7tsNhs
[11:11] <Vaizki> and more fake curvature :)
[11:11] <fsphil> and that lol
[11:11] <LunarWork> oh gosh I am in there
[11:11] <LunarWork> :D
[11:11] <fsphil> yay
[11:11] Action: AndyEsser wishes he remembered his german
[11:12] <Ben-AstroSoc> maybe try ~30deg down from horizontal
[11:12] <eroomde> 15 degrees is what we did
[11:12] <eroomde> for some stitching panoramas
[11:12] <eroomde> we also have done downwards pointing cams
[11:12] <eroomde> probs a vis somewhere
[11:12] <eroomde> it's lovely footage LunarWork
[11:13] <Ben-AstroSoc> LunarWork:
[11:13] <Ben-AstroSoc> thisis purely downwards rigiht?
[11:13] <R34lB0rg> LunarWork, this video end where the balloon pops?
[11:14] <Rebounder> R34lB0rg: yes, been battling with the broken SSB-code for some time. i'm a bit lousy at the sdr-theory so not been able to fix yet
[11:14] <eroomde> trying to find the vid i'm thinking of i found a jcoxon launch
[11:14] <fsphil> oh nice video at 16 minutes in. you could make a great panorama with that
[11:14] <eroomde> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzqM8w3rlhI
[11:15] <eroomde> that's the sort of launch you hope for
[11:15] <eroomde> easy as pie on a glorious still day
[11:15] <R34lB0rg> Rebounder, so far I just appreciate the elegance of I/Q streams
[11:15] <eroomde> downward one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o83gloSfpgw
[11:16] <fsphil> background noise totally gone at 30km
[11:17] <Rebounder> R34lB0rg: :) a working rtl_fm with SSB would be great... but probably is some work... LSB & USB matches the same fq-interval, the lower endingpart seems wrapped..
[11:17] <R34lB0rg> fsphil, no air, no sound :)
[11:18] <fsphil> I'd love to be up there. sadly I don't own a search engine or energy drinks company
[11:19] <AndyEsser> indeed :(
[11:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> theres some amazing pictures here
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[11:19] <fsphil> pop
[11:20] <R34lB0rg> Rebounder, rtl_* tools are great and have plenty of space for improvement - would be nice to see wspr decoding too
[11:20] <fsphil> they're totally broken for SSB sadly
[11:21] <Rebounder> R34lB0rg: that was my goal, have wsprd running
[11:21] <Rebounder> R34lB0rg: kind of idea of the mess, http://privetov.asuscomm.com/radio/wspr80-wspr-4.png
[11:22] <fl_0> LunarWork: nice video
[11:22] <fl_0> :)
[11:22] <Rebounder> R34lB0rg: the line is a linear scan. jt65 & psk mixed...
[11:22] <fsphil> LunarWork: quite a rough spot on the way down
[11:23] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-11 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
[11:23] <R34lB0rg> from 20km earth appears like a convex surface with a diameter of 500km :)
[11:23] Action: Rebounder gone shopping
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[11:29] <LunarWork> that is true
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[11:29] <LunarWork> thanks fl_0
[11:30] <LunarWork> R34lB0rg, like 15 min post burst the battery was empty
[11:30] <LunarWork> it came down to about 12 km
[11:32] <R34lB0rg> LunarWork, too bad, I was hoping for pictures from celle
[11:32] <LunarWork> yeah me too
[11:32] <LunarWork> cam had worked for 2.75 h
[11:32] <LunarWork> should have had a way to turn it on on the pad so to speak
[11:33] <LunarWork> then it would have worked all up to landing
[11:34] <R34lB0rg> would be nice to see a stitched image from the summit overlaid with a map http://tinyurl.com/jqopvrt
[11:35] <LunarWork> I agree, will try later if I can do something like that
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[12:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP6NVB-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-12
[12:16] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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[12:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BALYOLO - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALYOLO
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[12:44] <vic__> !hysplit [list]
[12:44] <SpacenearUS> 03vic__: No HYSPLIT for that callsign
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[12:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP6NVB-13 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-13
[12:47] <vic__> !hysplit kml SP6NVB-11
[12:47] <SpacenearUS> 03vic__: No HYSPLIT for that callsign
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[12:48] <vic__> !hysplit defaults
[12:48] <SpacenearUS> 03vic__: HYSPLIT defaults: 03dk3sb-9, k6rpt-%, aeth%, ubseds9, dl4mdw-11, dl7ad-12, edupic16, ps-%, f-1, sp30sj, sp3osj, sp3osj-12, hb9fdk-12, m0sbu-11, ubseds13, ps-60
[12:50] <ds180> Hi - I am using a Raspberry pi based temperature sensor DS1820 in my payload. I had tested them thoroughly and they were working fine. Last week, I did a sudo apt get update to get the pi up to date with firmware. Now I do not see the DS1820 in /sys/bus/w1/devices/
[12:50] <ds180> checking the wires by pulling them and re-inserting did not help
[12:50] <ds180> checking forums also did not help.
[12:50] <ds180> anyone here have a solution?
[12:50] <ds180> or where I should look?
[12:50] <daveake> http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/27755/ds18b20-temperature-sensor-not-registered-debugging
[12:52] <ds180> Thanks, Dave. I already have dtoverlay=w1-gpio in my config.txt
[12:56] <ds180> how to determine if I need gpio external pull up or not?
[12:57] <ds180> I do have a resistor for the DS1820 like they asked to in the tutorial
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[13:02] <Vaizki> umm that resistor IS a pullup
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[13:18] <ds180> thats what I thought
[13:18] <ds180> going to try more wire changes
[13:18] <ds180> to see if it is a hardware issue than a software one
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[13:24] <LunarWork> I just had the most nauseating solder
[13:24] <LunarWork> smelled like a christmas tree
[13:32] <fsphil> huh
[13:32] <fsphil> that's a bit weird
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[13:35] <R34lB0rg> LunarWork, "natural rosin solder"?
[13:35] <R34lB0rg> flux used to be made from pines
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[13:41] <eroomde> russss: are irrccloud email verification emails sent out straight away in theory?
[13:41] <eroomde> I've been waiting a wee while
[13:41] <russss> yes, if you let me know which address you used I can check
[13:41] <eroomde> eddymoore at gmail dot com
[13:41] <eroomde> oh!
[13:42] <eroomde> tits
[13:42] <eroomde> no
[13:42] <eroomde> i looked 3 times to make sure i hadn't mistyped it
[13:42] <eroomde> looked fine every time
[13:42] <eroomde> but i have mistyped it
[13:42] <eroomde> i literally have word blindness
[13:42] <russss> heh
[13:42] <eroomde> there we go
[13:42] <eroomde> sorry
[13:43] <eroomde> this same blindness also accounts for a large percentage of my bugs
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[13:45] <edmoore> thanks russss
[13:47] <AndyEsser> good lord spec55 was a bit more expensive than I was expecting
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[13:47] <edmoore> AndyEsser: aerospace quality
[13:47] <edmoore> like i said, it's not for messing around
[13:47] <AndyEsser> true
[13:47] <edmoore> it's the real stuff for when it matters and it's not cheap
[13:47] <AndyEsser> but wasn't expecting £4/metre
[13:47] <AndyEsser> although... that being said
[13:48] <AndyEsser> £4/metre isn't too bad
[13:48] <edmoore> and it's probably only as good as your terminations at each end
[13:48] <AndyEsser> except when it comes in a coil of 100m :)
[13:48] <edmoore> that's a lot actually
[13:48] <edmoore> what awg?
[13:48] <AndyEsser> 24
[13:48] <AndyEsser> 20 AWG is £511 for 100m
[13:48] <edmoore> more than i pay...
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[13:48] <edmoore> that's into twisted pair territory
[13:48] <AndyEsser> wait...
[13:48] <AndyEsser> (sorry yes - that is 1-pair spec55)
[13:48] <edmoore> right
[13:48] <edmoore> you don't want twisted pair probably
[13:49] <edmoore> unless you know that you do
[13:49] <LunarWork> yeah that could be, re: solder
[13:49] <AndyEsser> the pair stuff was the only thing that showed up on Farnell for spec55
[13:49] <LunarWork> my FTDI LEDs now work after being flipped over
[13:49] <LunarWork> but RX flashes when the device sends to the PC, so there was a small error
[13:49] <AndyEsser> whut... doing the exact same search again... reveals more
[13:49] <AndyEsser> *glares at website*
[13:50] <edmoore> i'd get the datasheet and find the part number you want
[13:50] <AndyEsser> right, there we go, £80 for 100m
[13:50] <edmoore> they will basically always have 20-24awg white single of anything
[13:50] <edmoore> the rest might be specials
[13:50] <edmoore> or direct from a distributor
[13:50] <AndyEsser> cheers
[13:51] <AndyEsser> Is the fact that it all seems to be white a side-effect of it being spec55 so you can see the inner colour better?
[13:51] <edmoore> you can get other colours
[13:52] <edmoore> but white is pretty atandard in aero
[13:52] <edmoore> make sure it's the dual-wall too
[13:52] <edmoore> there is single wall spec55
[13:52] <AndyEsser> yea, this stuff appears to be single wall
[13:52] <AndyEsser> although doesn't specifically say it
[13:52] <AndyEsser> (I'm taking the lack of mentioning dual wall to mean it isn't)
[13:52] <edmoore> datasheet is your baby here
[13:53] <edmoore> check the actual part number
[13:53] <edmoore> datasheet provides a way of understanding the part numbers
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[16:16] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI868 after 033 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI868
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[16:27] <fsphil> mmm pi
[16:28] <edmoore> Raspberry or raspberry?
[16:29] <R34lB0rg> orange? banana?
[16:29] <fsphil> I've never had raspberry pie. should try it
[16:30] <R34lB0rg> every raspberry pi should be delivered with a coffee and a raspberry pie :)
[16:31] <AndyEsser> no it shouldn't
[16:31] <fsphil> that might be neat the first time
[16:31] <fsphil> not after the 10th delivery :)
[16:31] <AndyEsser> hoarder
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[16:32] <fsphil> it's so true
[16:33] <daveake> I took a look in the shed earlier. Found a big box, of smaller boxes, pretty much all (~12) of which I'd been looking for recently
[16:33] <daveake> Still didn't find what I looked for this time :/
[16:34] <fsphil> yep. I did actually find the rfm modules I was after. it took me 3 days
[16:34] <daveake> I want ShedGoogle - a kind of "find-and-fetch" automaton
[16:34] <daveake> It'd save me a lot of money buying stuff I already had
[16:37] <fsphil> farnell need an "it's OK, I found it" button
[16:37] <daveake> "Don't check US stock, just check mine"
[16:37] <fsphil> hah
[16:38] <fsphil> "Ross-on-wye stock: 3-ish"
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[16:46] <AndyEsser> daveake: when placing an order "Are you sure? You ordered 100x this item just last week. Have you checked behind the radiator?"
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[17:43] <Ian_> daveake, your post 2 of [16:34] :) sounds so very familiar
[17:53] <forrestv> does anyone know how the "direct startup" mode of BLHeli works? it "runs the motor using back emf detection from the very start"
[17:53] <forrestv> but i thought back emf detection didn't work at low speeds..
[17:54] <edmoore> daveake: i know what you mean on rebuying stuff you have
[17:54] <edmoore> you should see the number of little jars of oregano i have
[17:55] <daveake> hah I did that one too :)
[17:55] <daveake> except it was one huge jar
[17:56] <daveake> Still not used it up
[17:56] <R34lB0rg> you cannot have to much oregano :)
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[19:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL0CRE-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL0CRE-11
[19:43] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hr_v_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hr_v_chase
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[21:05] <mclane_> Did someone follow the solar balloon flight? How did that run?
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[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> hi mclane_
[21:15] <mclane_> Wie geht's?
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> gut danke und dir?
[21:17] <mclane_> thank god its Friday ;-)
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[21:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PYSYchase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PYSYchase
[21:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PYSY - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PYSY
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[22:09] <Ian_> Great videos by the way Lunar_Lander. What camera did you use?
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> the GoPro Hero
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> the "cheap" one
[22:11] <Ian_> Thank you . . . :) Thinking of two very cheap cameras and the second switched on as appropriate. All just ideas though. Was that you with the grey(?) woolly hat on in the second video
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> no, I am the guy with the long hair inflating the balloon :D
[22:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03JE6RHS-11_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=JE6RHS-11_chase
[22:15] <Ian_> I'll look again. I seem to think that you face was mostly hidden by your dark locks :) Bit of a shame that you didn't get the landing. I guess that was due to battery failure.
[22:15] <Ian_> I keep forgetting the ???? marks
[22:18] <Ian_> What does your mother think of the video? . . . very proud of her son with tangible evidence of the achievement. AAAAW!
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[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> actually have to show her the video
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea battery was empty by then
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> but it would have worked if we would have been able to turn the camera on on the pad
[22:26] <mclane_> what is the background noise? sounds like a running motor
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> that's part of the aspiration experiment
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> the one tube was ventilated by a fan
[22:28] <mclane_> ah ok
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> we wanted to imitate the aspirated psychrometer (the device I am holding in the video
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> because that one today is still used as a reference
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> polished metal to reflect sunlight and an airstream generated by a fan at the top
[22:29] <R34lB0rg> didn't realize you had a psychrometer attached
[22:30] <R34lB0rg> you collected temperature measurements? how did you keep the wet bulb wet?
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> it was not a real psychrometer
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> in the tubes we had a set of the following sensors
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> DS18B20, HIH-5031 and HIH-6021
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/1/d/5/5yvag7-l5avsu-1ls0/PayloadBox.jpeg
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[22:37] <Ben-AstroSoc> needs banana for scale
[22:38] Action: R34lB0rg puts a baby banana in the picture
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[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1lke6hPHKJDU0tvVWZCNlgwM2c
[22:41] <R34lB0rg> the sensor board I presume
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[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[22:45] <Ben-AstroSoc> our sensor came in today
[22:45] <Ben-AstroSoc> went with the 3 in one sparkfun board for simplicity's sake
[22:45] <Ben-AstroSoc> might not work at high altitude but it's not the bigges of deals
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[22:47] <R34lB0rg> I got a bmp180 for pressure/temperature and a si7021 for humidity
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[22:49] <daveake> BME280 does all 3
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> I didn't want to use BME280 this time because I thought two p measurements would be redundant
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> as we wanted to compare two sets of sensors
[22:50] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah the BME280 is what we're using
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> but I got a BME280 in the lab :)
[22:51] <Ben-AstroSoc> my avr programmer didn't show up in the mail then i found one in a pile of my dad's old electronics junk
[22:52] <Ben-AstroSoc> so we'r ein business this weekend :3
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> I am excited about a new pololu board
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> their minimu-9 now is available as v5
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> has new compass and accel+gyro ICs from ST
[22:56] <R34lB0rg> daveake, I already have a bme280 laying around but no time to hook it up and code the driver yet
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[23:09] <Ben-AstroSoc> how copmlx is the driver code?
[23:13] <daveake> Easy enough. There are some calibration coefficients to use in converting raw pressure/humidity values to useful values, but that's it
[23:14] <Ben-AstroSoc> we're ok with the calibration
[23:14] <Ben-AstroSoc> did a series of labs on thermocouples
[23:16] <daveake> The cal constants are read from the device, and have to be used - the raw values aren't much use otherwise
[23:16] <daveake> The maths are in the datasheet, or look in any existing library
[23:17] <daveake> If you're using Arduino there's a lib already, in which case you just init the lib and ask for values
[23:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> we'll be writing from scratch but shouldnt be hard
[23:17] <daveake> It's simple c++
[23:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> have a few weeks to get sensor readings down
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> They don't have to be used on device though
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> you can store them and process on the ground if you choose to
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[00:00] --- Sat Feb 20 2016