highaltitude.log.20160217

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[00:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL7AD-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL7AD-11
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[07:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-11 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
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[08:12] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 035 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
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[08:16] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> DL7AD: last heard 03.33 @ 6755m , does it wake up with solar ??
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[08:19] <lz1dev> he said their are launching 'today'
[08:20] <lz1dev> at 23h yesterday, so im assuming that fake data
[08:20] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> well it was 00.23 in DE / DE timezonr :)
[08:20] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> *SE
[08:21] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> and looking on aprs.fi u see a track of a balloon going up
[08:22] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> and they usuly lanch ion the middle of the night
[08:23] Nick change: SA6BSS-Mike|2 -> SA6BSS-Mike
[08:24] <lz1dev> .aprs add DL7AD-11
[08:24] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Added 03DL7AD-11 to APRS Importer
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[08:30] <AndyEsser> morning
[08:39] <SM0ULC-Reb> morrn
[08:40] <SM0ULC-Reb> 09:35 < cuoops> launch in 10 minutes http://original.livestream.com/spaceflightnow
[08:41] <AndyEsser> ta
[08:41] <fsphil> what's jaxa launching?
[08:41] <AndyEsser> a rocket
[08:41] <SM0ULC-Reb> i'm just in it for the roar.. ;)
[08:41] <AndyEsser> that sounded like a countdown
[08:41] <fsphil> ooh x-ray telescope
[08:41] <AndyEsser> then... nothing happening
[08:42] <AndyEsser> ha
[08:42] <fsphil> ASTRO-H
[08:42] <SM0ULC-Reb> -4 min i think
[08:42] <SM0ULC-Reb> isch
[08:42] <AndyEsser> ah cool
[08:42] <AndyEsser> needs fancy SpaceX graphics
[08:42] <AndyEsser> :)
[08:42] Action: AndyEsser is surprised there aren't pokemon painted on the side
[08:43] <fsphil> "the launch vehicle is on internal pikachu power"
[08:43] <SM0ULC-Reb> fsphil: you just have to wear the right glasses
[08:43] <AndyEsser> fsphil: :)
[08:44] <fsphil> she's counting from a really high number. I'm used to the US launches just going from 10 down
[08:44] <AndyEsser> fsphil: wonder if she practices counting down
[08:44] <fsphil> knowing the japanese, it's a robot
[08:44] <AndyEsser> like... I know full well that I'd fuck up counting down from 100 if I was under pressure
[08:45] <AndyEsser> (Dafuq comes before 87?!)
[08:45] <fsphil> "flight mode on"
[08:45] <AndyEsser> "All systems are ready"
[08:45] <fsphil> woo
[08:45] <AndyEsser> yes... the rocket is like 10m off the ground
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[08:45] <gonzo_> if it's a pure countdown, why not record it
[08:46] <gonzo_> (or even automate it these days..... 'On the third stroke....')
[08:46] <AndyEsser> indeed
[08:46] <AndyEsser> I suspect it is recorded or whatever
[08:46] <gonzo_> or even 'precicely'
[08:46] <gonzo_> if I could spell it
[08:46] <AndyEsser> precisely
[08:46] <AndyEsser> you were close :)
[08:46] <fsphil> not the usual roar, sounds more like a train
[08:47] <AndyEsser> "Choo choo mother f*ckers"
[08:47] <daey> ima going to space
[08:47] <gonzo_> I thought that timing was more critical than spelling
[08:47] <fsphil> nice, srb's away
[08:47] <fsphil> second stage going
[08:47] <gonzo_> what's the launcvg btw?
[08:47] <AndyEsser> X-Ray Telescope
[08:48] <fsphil> oh still on first stage
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[08:48] <gonzo_> bit late to go looking now. All there will be is a cloud of smoke and lot's of back slapping
[08:49] <fsphil> 116km altitude
[08:49] <fsphil> beats my best :)
[08:49] <AndyEsser> bit quicker than one of our balloons :P
[08:50] <fsphil> I really want to see a launch for real
[08:51] <fsphil> "the flight goes very smoothly" ... makes a change from nominal
[08:51] <AndyEsser> god damn nominal
[08:51] <AndyEsser> can we remove that word from the English language
[08:51] <Vaizki> I saw the Challenger disaster live
[08:53] <Vaizki> not the launch itself but just the part where it all went un-nominal
[08:54] <Vaizki> and by "live" I mean I was in Florida watching with my school because there was a teacher on board, not live on tv
[08:55] <LunarMobile> Ohhhhhh
[08:57] <LunarMobile> 6 km/s
[08:57] <fsphil> 565km alt
[08:58] <LunarMobile> 60 sec to extinction
[08:58] <AndyEsser> extinction?
[08:58] <AndyEsser> we're all going to die?
[08:59] <LunarMobile> No
[08:59] <LunarMobile> Meco
[08:59] <LunarMobile> Sep
[09:02] <LunarMobile> The text on screen said 807 for SECO and afterwards it said 804
[09:02] <LunarMobile> Don't know if that means it was 3 sec early
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[09:05] <LunarMobile> Seems like no on-board cam this time
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[09:06] <AndyEsser> morning Ben-AstroSoc
[09:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> o/
[09:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> i forget IRC has sign in notifications, i turned them off
[09:07] <AndyEsser> :)
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[09:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> xilinx/vhdl lab then i;m free for the rest of the day :3
[09:21] <AndyEsser> that sounds like fun
[09:23] <Ben-AstroSoc> we're scheduled 4 hours to do it and normally i finish in 1
[09:23] <Ben-AstroSoc> waste of getting up super early :/
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[09:34] <R34lB0rg> Vaizki, I own a piece of paper that was once flown on challenger
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[09:35] <Vaizki> R34lB0rg, barf bag? :)
[09:35] <Vaizki> those are sought after collector items
[09:36] <Vaizki> [Global Notice] It's upgrade all the things day which also means lots of reboots. This will unfortunately be quite noisy. Remember connecting to chat.freenode.net, stay calm and don't panic!
[09:36] <Vaizki> if someone's client doesn't show those prominently
[09:36] <R34lB0rg> no, a memorandum from STS61a
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[09:38] <Vaizki> I was a bit annoyed that space shuttle barf bags are not serial numbered
[09:39] <Vaizki> everything on a space shuttle should be serial numbered :)
[09:39] <AndyEsser> everything should be serial numbered
[09:39] <Vaizki> well no I am not ready to pay for perforated serial numbers on my toilet roll sheets
[09:40] <AndyEsser> the rolls should be serial numbered though ;)
[09:40] <Vaizki> well at least eggs are serial numbered here
[09:40] <Vaizki> so breakfast starts out right
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[09:41] <R34lB0rg> does the egg's serial number include the serial number of the hen?
[09:42] <Vaizki> unfortunately no.. don't spoil my mornings
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[10:00] <fsphil> thankfully I'm having cereal this-morning. sorted
[10:01] <AndyEsser> eurgh, stop it - you're all making me hungry :(
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[10:03] <fsphil> soggy cornflakes are gooood
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[10:10] <Vaizki> and I introduce you to the ultimate Finnish breakfast all-in-one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelian_pasty
[10:10] <Vaizki> butter that baby up, a bit of smoked ham and cheese on top, it'll take you all the way to lunch :)
[10:11] <fsphil> urg
[10:12] <fsphil> that looks nice
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[10:16] <Vaizki> it's one of the few "convenience foods" (not sure what the right expression is), i.e. food that is ready cooked and just heated up
[10:17] <Vaizki> making them yourself is a PITA (I'm on a roll again!)
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[10:30] <Ben-AstroSoc> that karelian thing looks amazing
[10:30] <Ben-AstroSoc> but its gonna have to top the bacon sarnie
[10:34] <LunarMobile> Soldering :)
[10:35] <Vaizki> oh I certainly enjoy a bacon sarnie but the thing with the karelian pasty is that I just pop it in a toaster and it's ready to go
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[10:36] <Vaizki> such convenience cannot be underestimated when one is still squeezing the first cappucino out of the coffee maker
[10:37] <AndyEsser> I really want a bacon sarnie now...
[10:37] <AndyEsser> need to pop home at lunchtime for lunch.. do I pick up bacon beforehand...
[10:37] <AndyEsser> hmm
[10:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> my breakfast is consisting of crumpets and jam/syrup atm so
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[10:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> got the hang of this vhdl malarkey
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[10:55] <Ben-AstroSoc> uni gave us £200, that ought to cover balloon/chute/helium :D
[10:56] <LunarMobile> Cool!
[10:56] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: woo :)
[10:57] <AndyEsser> Show them the impressive work that CUSF have done, and get them to create a whole department/club for it :)
[10:57] <AndyEsser> with a budget
[10:57] <Ben-AstroSoc> hardest bit now is convincing someone to drive chasecar and sorting the CAA with a launch site
[10:58] <AndyEsser> again, with enough notice (and preferably on a weekend) I'll happily come down for the launch and help chase - but it'll be my first time - so don't rely on me actually picking anything up :P
[10:58] <Ben-AstroSoc> i mean we have an alectronics and an astronautics society already
[10:58] <AndyEsser> Alectronics?
[10:58] <AndyEsser> headed up by someone called Alec?
[10:58] <Ben-AstroSoc> i'm off on placement in july so i cant set it up
[10:58] <Ben-AstroSoc> thats the one
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[10:59] <fsphil> astronautics society, that's optimsitic
[10:59] <gonzo_> naughty asterix
[10:59] <AndyEsser> daveake: ever had a problem with someone finding the payloads being shitty? Seems you've had good luck with everyone who's picked one up so far being friendly and helpful
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[11:01] <daveake> No
[11:01] <daveake> Usually you get there first anyway
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[11:01] <daveake> I did get one "get orffa my land"
[11:01] <gonzo_> putting a cuddly toy on the end of the string is probably his devious ploy. No-one can be angry when holding a teddy bear
[11:01] <mfa298> I think a couple of people have had odd issues, at least one stolen payload, but those seem to be rare
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[11:02] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: hehe just trying to picture that now
[11:02] <AndyEsser> but for the most part people have been friendly?
[11:02] <gonzo_> ok, no-one can be angry, and be taken seriously.....
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[11:02] <Ben-AstroSoc> i'm wondering if my launch site is suitable, being just west of birmingham when the payload almost exclusively flies east..
[11:03] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: do you have coords?
[11:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> (52.4418, -2.0827)
[11:03] <daveake> AndyEsser http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/P1050268-e1346709067625-682x1024.jpg
[11:03] <daveake> That's as it landed
[11:03] <AndyEsser> daveake: yep saw that one :)
[11:03] <mfa298> you might find you get time / wind direction restrictions if it could go through a flight path
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[11:04] <gonzo_> didn't you have to give that to the house holders kid?
[11:04] <gonzo_> hmmm, quite a split
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[11:05] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah, i was talking to my dad about it and he reckons we're so close to BHX there'sno way we get permission
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[11:05] <fsphil> at least this one is intentional
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[11:05] <fsphil> not like the ddos'ing over christmas
[11:06] <eroomde> Ben-AstroSoc: i'd still put a notam in and see
[11:06] <eroomde> the rules of granting them (or not) can be surprising
[11:06] <Ben-AstroSoc> might be worth submitting a form with it anyway and seeing what they say
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[11:06] <eroomde> hard to characterise the black box by looking at inputs and outputs
[11:06] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah
[11:06] <gonzo_> I've tried asking CAA for their vies on whether sites are suitable. But never got a reply. Only putting in an official application seems to geta response
[11:07] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: http://imgur.com/2HocO55
[11:07] <AndyEsser> you might have a problem there
[11:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> I'll have a look for the relevant form when I get home
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[11:07] <AndyEsser> !ping
[11:07] <SpacenearUS> 03AndyEsser: No contact from 03
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[11:07] <gonzo_> close to controled airspace, you may get restrictions, eg, only launch when winds are in XYZ direction
[11:08] <eroomde> somethingor before 7.30
[11:08] <gonzo_> or itf it's a minor airport, time restrictions
[11:08] <gonzo_> snap
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[11:08] <gonzo_> but I suspect BHX runs 24hrs
[11:08] <Ben-AstroSoc> i thought you weren't allowed to run 24 hours
[11:08] <daey> airport restrictions are a joke tbh
[11:09] <gonzo_> ? no idea, just my assumption
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[11:09] <mfa298> back to the good old days of netsplitty free node damn these interesting bugs
[11:09] <daey> we have a sailplane/ glider hobby airport right next to a commercial airport. the restriction is, dont start parallel to planes on the other airport. thats pretty much it :P
[11:10] <gonzo_> Down here, the bournemouth ATC go home at sunset. So if you come back in late (light aircraft) you get a huge bill for overtime
[11:10] <Ben-AstroSoc> I'll submit a form for 21st March and see what they say
[11:10] <Ben-AstroSoc> Anyone got a link to the relevant page?
[11:10] <daey> well and obviously dont cross their runway
[11:10] <mfa298> AndyEsser: for possibly the worst case of landing issues http://habe.acudworth.co.uk/blog/
[11:11] <gonzo_> asking for a couple of dates is worth while. If they give wind dir limits, you may have to wait till a day that the wind changes
[11:12] <Ben-AstroSoc> I mean we basically have a three week period we're happy to launch in
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[11:12] <Ben-AstroSoc> 21/3 to 15/4 are Easter hols so ideally go in there
[11:12] <AndyEsser> mfa298: o wow
[11:13] <gonzo_> I asked for two weekends. Sat/sun. That was granted, after a few email requests if we could slip the dates as they were busy and couldn;t process the application.
[11:13] <gonzo_> I had direction limits, and only on the last day, the wind changed
[11:14] <eroomde> you and andy could coordinate
[11:14] <Ben-AstroSoc> i found instructions on http://ukra.org.uk/notam - those accurate?
[11:14] <eroomde> if you spread mutually do-able dates between your applications
[11:14] <gonzo_> of course, all this goes away if you do a pico flight. Just be sensible about where you let it fly
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[11:15] <eroomde> assuming you want to launch at similar times
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[11:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> what're the limitson a pico flight?
[11:15] <AndyEsser> the entire thing
[11:15] <SpeedEvil> Ben-AstroSoc: you can't launch more than 10000 per square kilometer per 15 minutes
[11:15] <gonzo_> below 2mtrs size (at any point in the flight) CAA are not interested
[11:16] <AndyEsser> payload/line/balloon etc can not exceed 2meters in any direction
[11:16] <eroomde> no linear dimension can exceed 2m at any point during flight
[11:16] <eroomde> so that's basically top of balloon to bottom of payload antenna
[11:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> SpeedEvil: 10000g?
[11:17] <SpeedEvil> No, 10000 balloons
[11:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> oh
[11:17] <SpeedEvil> It's intended to regulate mass releases of balloons at stadiums
[11:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> we haven't looked to much into rigging etc yet so nots ure if we'll be able to fit inside the limit
[11:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> is there no mass restriction?
[11:17] <SpeedEvil> 'no'
[11:18] <gonzo_> only limited by the lift of a small balloon
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> But in reality, density of air - density of hydrogen * 2 meter sphere
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> So several kilos
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> if you only want it to fly at 1000m
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[11:18] <gonzo_> realistically you are going to use a 36" foil or 100gm latex balloon
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[11:19] <gonzo_> (the 100g latex is speced as 1.8mtr burst, so it's close to the limit.)
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> It is much nicer to get to 20km or so and get out of most of the weather
[11:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> can't see us fitting into 2m then
[11:19] <R34lB0rg> you need to design for pico from the beginning
[11:20] <gonzo_> with pico flights, engineering a light payload is the cahllenge, if you wnat any altitude
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> especially if you want it to last >2h
[11:20] Action: Ben-AstroSoc shelves chance of picoflight
[11:21] <gonzo_> pico is a good way to start, and test your trackers. Also cheaper in balloons and gas. And you can launch whenevre you want (within reason)
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[11:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> we've not really been shotting for mass efficiency with what we've put together so far so
[11:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> shooting*
[11:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> can you apply for NOTAM >28 days in advance?
[11:23] Elwell (~elwell@freenode/staff-emeritus/elwell) got lost in the net-split.
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Smallest-Mini-Camera-Camcorder-Video-Recorder-DVR-Spy-Hidden-Pinhole-Web-cam-/151924221526?hash=item235f63a656:g:6LcAAOSwJcZWeRZc - I just bought
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> well - got delivered
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> I can't seem to find a microSD - which annoys
[11:23] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: I believe so - but some people have said you don't know if the NOTAM is approved until a couple days before the requested date :(
[11:24] <SpeedEvil> I would be surprised if half the weight is not the case.
[11:24] <Ben-AstroSoc> i mean would it be worth applying for the 2 weekends in the easter hols from my launch site and see what they say?
[11:24] <AndyEsser> that's eroomde's recommendation I believe
[11:25] <R34lB0rg> notam is not approved, only issued, your flight must be approved
[11:26] <Ben-AstroSoc> Who approves the specific flight?
[11:27] <eroomde> ignore R34lB0rg
[11:27] <eroomde> he's a massive waste of time and everything he says is confused and wrong
[11:27] <eroomde> R34lB0rg: don't contribute to this conversation, you know nothing about any of this and just cause problems
[11:28] <eroomde> if you speak again I'll kick you for confusing people who actually build and try and fly stuff, which is the life blood of this channel and what you should be doing instead of typing your nonesense here
[11:28] <eroomde> no more chances
[11:28] <eroomde> Ben-AstroSoc: from the CAA pov, you just need them to give you a notma. Nothing else. Your original mental model of how this works is correct
[11:29] <Ben-AstroSoc> a'ight, i'll send some emails out to them later on for my home launch site
[11:29] <R34lB0rg> eroomde, you call people who want to fly stuff the "life blood of this channel" and at the same time threaten to kick me? you must be confused!
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[11:30] <eroomde> no, i didn't say anything as weak as 'want', read what I said. I said people 'who actually BUILD AND TRY TO FLY' (emaphsis mine)
[11:31] <eroomde> that's much strong than some vague 'want'. I'm sure can convince yourself that you want to fly stuff but that's irrelevent to your trollish crap
[11:31] <eroomde> don't piss me off anymore please
[11:32] <R34lB0rg> eroomde, if you want to take out your anger on someone, I'll gladly give you the phone number of the austrian regulatory body
[11:32] <eroomde> no, I want you to shut up
[11:32] <eroomde> i'm clear about that
[11:32] <R34lB0rg> eroomde, you know /ignore
[11:32] <eroomde> more reading and less talking
[11:32] <eroomde> sadly I don't have that luxury as a channel op
[11:33] <R34lB0rg> your client doesn't support ignore? what are you using? telnet?
[11:33] <eroomde> i need to say that you're not saying stupid things to new people who are having an jonest go
[11:33] <eroomde> need to see*
[11:34] <R34lB0rg> eroomde, what did I say? that a notam is issued not approved. anything wrong with that?
[11:35] <R34lB0rg> notam is a different thing from permission to fly, you may request a notam for a picoballoon if you want
[11:36] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-12 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-12
[11:36] <eroomde> I will humour you in good faith one last time, next time you die
[11:36] <eroomde> you said
[11:36] <eroomde> 11:25:43 R34lB0rg notam is not approved, only issued, your flight must be approved
[11:37] <eroomde> in the context of the discussion, and as evidenced by Ben's response, this suggests you need to apply for some other permission to fly your payload from some regulatory authority
[11:37] <eroomde> you categorically do not
[11:37] <eroomde> this is wrong
[11:37] <eroomde> and issuing vs approving in the context of a notam is sematic squabbling
[11:37] <eroomde> the meaning is unambiguous
[11:37] <eroomde> you apply for something, you get back either a yes or a no
[11:37] <eroomde> whenther you call that issueing a yes or approving an application is immaterial
[11:38] <R34lB0rg> in austria I am not allowed to launch anything (not even a pico) without permission
[11:38] <eroomde> so move
[11:38] <eroomde> don;'t spam this channel with irrelevent crap
[11:39] <eroomde> it's clear from the backlog that we're talking about the UK
[11:39] <gonzo_> The clue is in the channel banner UK-HAS
[11:39] <gonzo_> snap
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[11:40] <R34lB0rg> eroomde, it's also clear from the backlog that Ben-AstroSoc had ruled out a picoballoon at that point and from what I have learned here you need a permission to fly somthing bigger in the uk
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[11:41] <gonzo_> Ben-AstroSoc, you fill in the application. The guy at CAA will process it, look at/liase with local airspace users and issue (or not) a NOTAM. When issued, it will give you dates/time/location and any other conditions that you have to adhere to, to launch.
[11:41] <Ben-AstroSoc> gotcha
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[11:42] <eroomde> R34lB0rg: no, you just need a notam
[11:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> on a better note i just finished writing my rtty logic
[11:42] <fsphil> what way did you go in the end?
[11:42] <gonzo_> the CAA will log an entry in their notam system basically indicating to other airspace users that you may be using that area (usually an area of a km or so of your launch site, and your contact details
[11:43] <Ben-AstroSoc> the non-struct route
[11:43] <eroomde> R34lB0rg: PLEASE don't talk about stuff you haven't got experience with. Just stay silent unless you know the answrr, if someone is asking for advice. That's going to be the best way forward for you if you want to stay here
[11:43] <gonzo_> so if anyone wants to use that airspace, they should call you to check if it's safe to do so (ie, have you actually launched)
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[11:43] <ops> test
[11:43] <R34lB0rg> eroomde, I understand that you need to apply for permission and the notam is issued in the process
[11:43] <eroomde> works
[11:43] Nick change: ops -> AndyEsser
[11:43] Possible future nick collision: AndyEsser
[11:43] <fsphil> Ben-AstroSoc: nice. interrupt driven?
[11:43] <R34lB0rg> like gonzo_ just explained
[11:43] <AndyEsser> goddamn SASL
[11:44] <AndyEsser> what did I miss since 11:39:34? :)
[11:44] <eroomde> nothing
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[11:44] <fsphil> nada
[11:44] <gonzo_> a bun fight
[11:44] <AndyEsser> has R34lB0rg been kicked yet?
[11:44] <Ben-AstroSoc> yep, using an overflow timer
[11:44] <AndyEsser> :)
[11:44] <fsphil> lovely buns
[11:44] <kokey> it's been dead quiet here, except for some line noise
[11:44] <gonzo_> such a shame to fight them
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[11:46] <fsphil> I've yet to try the timer interrupts on the stm32's. they're probably 2* more complex than the avrs
[11:46] <eroomde> yes
[11:46] <eroomde> the stm32 peripherals are amazing
[11:46] <eroomde> but
[11:46] <gonzo_> now I'm hungry and want someone here to have a birthday so we het cakes
[11:46] <eroomde> you have to take a law-firm approach to reading the datasheets
[11:46] <eroomde> it's very hard for me to configure them blind, i have to iterate with hardware
[11:46] <fsphil> lol yes. took me a long time to get SPI to the point of it generating a clock
[11:46] <fsphil> everything had to be perfect before it would even try
[11:46] <eroomde> 'ok this should work.... load elf.... hmmm, it doesn;t work'
[11:47] <eroomde> then you find some other bit needs to be set in another register 17 pages away
[11:47] <AndyEsser> lol
[11:47] <AndyEsser> sounds like fun :)
[11:47] <gonzo_> I likwe the PIC datasheets where they give you a routing diagarm showing all the options/bits
[11:48] <mattbrejza> the st ones do that too
[11:48] <eroomde> yes me too
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[11:48] <eroomde> but there are still so many switches
[11:48] <mattbrejza> libopencm3 helps with peripheral config though
[11:48] <gonzo_> trying to be all things to all men
[11:49] <fsphil> I'm trying the SPI thing in straight C, directly working with registers
[11:49] <eroomde> i can definitely see the gap it fills
[11:49] <eroomde> but i still sort of like doing it myself
[11:49] <fsphil> usart was simple enough, though I don't really understand the baud rate calculation
[11:49] <fsphil> setting up pins is pretty simple
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[11:50] <zyp> the baudrate calculation description in the reference manual is rediculously overcomplicated
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[11:51] <fsphil> it's probably writen to handle every possible config
[11:51] <zyp> they do separate calculations of integer part and fractional part and stuff, because the divider is a .4 fixed point value
[11:51] <eroomde> wow
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[11:51] <zyp> but they forget that since input clock needs to be 16x baudrate, it cancels out
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[11:52] <zyp> so all you really need to do is BRR = bus_clk / baudrate;
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[11:52] <fsphil> USART2->BRR = ((2 * 2097000) + 19200) / (2 * 19200);
[11:52] <fsphil> is what I have atm. 2097000 is magic to me atm
[11:52] <zyp> wtf :p
[11:52] <mattbrejza> https://libopencm3.github.io/docs/latest/stm32l1/html/usart__common__all_8c_source.html#l00049
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[11:52] <fsphil> it does indeed produce a 19200 baud rate ;)
[11:53] <zyp> http://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/usart/usart.h <- here's my code for it
[11:53] <fsphil> I think I got it from libopencm3
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[11:55] <zyp> 2097000 sounds like a weird bus clock value
[11:55] <AndyEsser> fsphil: what's the clock speed?
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[11:58] <fsphil> internal clock on the STM32L053R8T6, which I'm not actually sure...
[11:58] <fsphil> datasheet says 16mhz. default might be different
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[12:13] <AndyEsser> daveake: have read all your blog posts now... write more please :) Hehe
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[12:16] <daveake> yeah I'll see what I can do, just for you .... :p
[12:16] <AndyEsser> Thanks - knew you'd understand :P
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[12:26] <AndyEsser> test
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[12:26] <mattbrejza> failed
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[12:26] <AndyEsser> stupid irssi
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[12:39] <LunarMobile> Yay CPU deck works
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[13:10] <fsphil> zyp: yeah just going through the datasheet, that calculation makes little sense. I haven't measured but it's probably giving me a baudrate of 18348 rather than 19200
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[13:10] <fsphil> the L0's clock is 2mhz on reset
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[13:29] <SM0ULC-Reb> unstableness in the irc
[13:29] <fsphil> irc'ed
[13:29] <R34lB0rg> ircd patch-day
[13:32] <daveake> ircsome
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[13:40] <AndyEsser> daveake: :)
[13:48] <AndyEsser> it's not too bad being able to pop home at lunch time for food :)
[13:48] <AndyEsser> might have to make it a habit
[13:50] <fsphil> it's nice getting out of the office
[13:50] <fsphil> seeing a bit of daylight
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[13:50] <AndyEsser> Upu: I notice in the Ublox MAX-M8C datasheet that there is a VCC_RF and a V_ANT pin
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[13:50] <AndyEsser> does that mean that the Ublox contains all the circuitry required to drive an active antenna built in?
[13:51] <mattbrejza> i think you overestimate the circuitry required for an active antenna :P
[13:51] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: some sort of positive voltage, and a filteR?
[13:52] <Upu> well
[13:52] <Upu> the max modules need an inductor and a resistor
[13:52] <Upu> thats it
[13:52] <mattbrejza> V_ant might monitor that voltage rather than supply it
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[13:53] <AndyEsser> V_ANT - Active voltage supply pin
[13:53] <AndyEsser> VCC_RF - output voltage RF section
[13:53] <AndyEsser> o0o wait.. the V_ANT is only for M8W
[13:54] Nick change: Guest22510 -> nick_
[13:54] <Vostok> what is this, voltage for ants?
[13:54] <AndyEsser> :)
[13:58] <Upu> you can turn an external LNA off from the module to save power if you use VCC_RF
[13:59] <mattbrejza> oh that pin just has a mosfet connected to it
[14:00] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/f3kHXUA.png
[14:00] <AndyEsser> VCC_RF seems to be used as part of the Inductor/Resistor filter bit if going with an active antenna
[14:00] <Upu> thats driving an LNA
[14:01] <Upu> but if you're just driving an active patch you need an inductor and a 10R resistor
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[14:01] <AndyEsser> What happens if then put a passive antenna on there with the active circuitry?
[14:01] <eroomde> nothing
[14:02] <craag> unless it's a closed-circuit like a sarantel?
[14:02] <gonzo_> assuming the passive ant is not DC short
[14:02] <craag> yeah that's what I meant
[14:02] <gonzo_> patch ants are usually open Dc
[14:03] <AndyEsser> was likely thinking something like this: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_65&product_id=119
[14:03] <Upu> n ithat case
[14:03] <Upu> behold the complexity
[14:03] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/N8hvu54.png
[14:03] <AndyEsser> my eyes!!!
[14:03] <AndyEsser> :P
[14:04] <AndyEsser> interesting...
[14:04] <AndyEsser> that doesn't match the circuit in the hardware integration guide
[14:04] <Upu> the battery backup is different in MAX8's
[14:04] <Upu> should be tied to VCC
[14:04] <Upu> but that I assure you works fine
[14:04] <AndyEsser> :)
[14:04] <AndyEsser> didn't doubt that :)
[14:05] <AndyEsser> when you say the V_BCKP should be tied to VCC...
[14:05] <eroomde> it;s missing a tank capacitor on the bias tee but you can probably live without that
[14:05] <Ben-AstroSoc> the battery backup is optional right>
[14:05] <eroomde> yes
[14:05] <Upu> yes on older modules you tied to to GND
[14:05] <AndyEsser> eroomde: yea, that was the bit I noticed mising
[14:05] <eroomde> it just means you cold-start if you lose power
[14:05] <AndyEsser> Upu: I'm planning on having a battery backup (3v CR2032 or something)
[14:05] <Upu> on max-8's you tie it up to VCC
[14:05] <eroomde> that capacitor is just for niceness
[14:05] <eroomde> the inductor is the important bit
[14:06] <eroomde> it looks open-circuit to the rf but a short to DC
[14:06] <Upu> yeah check the hardware integration manual to check you get the right one
[14:06] <eroomde> so it just injects dc and doesn't let rf leak out
[14:06] <AndyEsser> Upu: okie dokie
[14:06] <eroomde> layout of that is moderately important
[14:06] <eroomde> put the inductor pad right on the gps microscrip
[14:06] <AndyEsser> the antenna and battery backup is what I'm working on tonight on my Whiteboard of Doom(TM)
[14:06] <eroomde> strip*
[14:07] <eroomde> but probably not going to cause you many headaches if only a couple of cm of track total
[14:07] <AndyEsser> lol... I was thinking maybe a few mm...
[14:07] <AndyEsser> and was worrying
[14:08] <eroomde> short the better really
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[14:08] <AndyEsser> That's my motto in life
[14:08] <AndyEsser> *cough*
[14:13] <AndyEsser> Upu: cheers for the info
[14:13] <AndyEsser> might have to bug you again about it when I actually get to drawing - but will try to avoid doing that
[14:13] <AndyEsser> :)
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[14:19] <AndyEsser> liberal borrowment of the office printer for datasheets
[14:19] <AndyEsser> :)
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[14:29] <namor> dear everybody. we're seeking for another flight approve for our second start attempt with our solar balloon: 9e59daf078c8d0a88752048d45e37acb. as we had to learn monday, we're rather sensitive for wind. the predictions are bellow 10 m/s, but will only see when we are there tomorrow.
[14:29] <craag> Hi namor, post the doc id in #habhub
[14:30] <namor> thanks.
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[14:51] <daveake> Ben-AstroSoc: As Ed has made clear, you just need to apply for permission from the CAA, and they then do 2 things: issue an exemption/permission sheet, and a NOTAM. The former gets emailed to you; it exempts your flight from various parts of the Air Navigation Order, and it provides permission to fly from your specified location, on the specified date(s)
[14:51] <daveake> and within a time window. Separately, the CAA issues a NOTAM on the AIS web site, from where it gets bounced on to some other sites such as notaminfo.com. You may well then get calls from pilots who have seen the NOTAM and want to fly through the are that it covers (which is a circle around the launch site; radius seems to vary depending on location).
[14:52] <fsphil> some pilots may just fly around the notam area to see what's up
[14:53] <daveake> Yeah I reckon they're just as likely to come have a look as they are to call
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[14:54] <daveake> Hence the advice to do visual/aural checks prior to letting go of the balloon
[14:54] <daveake> though it'd be their own stupid fault if they did get in the way
[14:54] <fsphil> had a call from a glider pilot who was just curious what I was doing
[14:55] <daveake> I had a call from a Tiger Moth pilot. I was tempted to say "I'll forget the launch, just do a low fly-past please"
[14:57] <daveake> Strangely, when the was a bad RTA nearby , during my NOTAM period, neither police nor air ambulance bothered to call :)
[14:58] <eroomde> re: mailing list
[14:58] <eroomde> http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs_highlighted/highaltitude.log.20160216.html#L144
[14:59] <mattbrejza> they probably read the notam list at teh start of each day
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[15:00] <daveake> Didn't have to wait too long then eroomde
[15:01] <daveake> mattbrejza Well, the notam was issued the day before. But anyway, head-on accident more important than balloon
[15:02] <mattbrejza> not sure what they would get out of calling though. the notam is quite clear
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[15:04] <gonzo_> I only had one call, and again it was just from someome interested.
[15:05] <gonzo_> I actually had someone ask me in the queue for sandwich van (one of our engineer who flies)
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[15:05] <gonzo_> saw the notam and thought it was the sort of thiung I may have something to do with!
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[15:11] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03LORA1 after 033 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LORA1
[15:13] <Ben-AstroSoc> how has that stayed up there so long?
[15:16] <eroomde> floaters can stay up for weeks to months
[15:16] <eroomde> as a general comment
[15:16] <eroomde> no idea what lora1 is specifically
[15:16] <Ben-AstroSoc> oh are they weighted for a certain height?
[15:17] <mattbrejza> !ping LORA1
[15:17] <SpacenearUS> 03mattbrejza: Last contact with 03LORA1 was 033 hours ago
[15:18] <AndyEsser> eroomde: LORA1 was one of daveake's 3 LORA relay payloads
[15:18] <AndyEsser> no idea what it's currently doing now
[15:18] <AndyEsser> :)
[15:18] <daveake> erm I have no idea either :/
[15:19] <eroomde> maybe someone's new gateway having fun
[15:20] <eroomde> Ben-AstroSoc: sort of
[15:20] <eroomde> most picos float around 10-12kg
[15:20] <eroomde> er
[15:20] <eroomde> 10-12km
[15:20] <daveake> SIBot needed
[15:20] <daveake> :)
[15:20] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: I believe the general theory behind it is, light payload, large balloon, largely underfilled
[15:21] <AndyEsser> (underfilled relative to typical up-burst-down flights)
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[15:22] <SpeedEvil> Just before a balloon bursts, the wall of the balloon stops being elastic and tenses up.
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> This increases the relative density of the gas inside.
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[15:23] <SpeedEvil> If this increase is enough that it comes into balance with the falling density with altitude before teh balloon bursts due to that stress, you get a float
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[15:42] <AndyEsser> SpeedEvil: should be _relatively_ easy to actually model and plan for a floater then?
[15:42] <AndyEsser> last I heard it was all a bit of dark magic whether it works or not :)
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> In principle, yes.
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> A slow ascent balloon of certain sorts will float
[15:43] <fsphil> the 1600g hwyoewewer (sp?) was a pretty safe bet
[15:43] <fsphil> floated both times I tried it
[15:43] <AndyEsser> fsphil: what sort of mass payload?
[15:43] <fsphil> about 300-400g
[15:44] <AndyEsser> hmm
[15:44] <fsphil> 6x energizer lithiums, pi and camera all in a small polystyrene box
[15:44] <fsphil> pi camera*
[15:44] <AndyEsser> fsphil: do the winds ever shift in a way around your parts that takes it out over the Atlantic?
[15:44] <fsphil> yeah usually in the summer months
[15:45] <AndyEsser> Ah ok
[15:45] <fsphil> the high altitude winds swap dirction for a while
[15:45] <fsphil> so a launch would head east at first, then west when it gets high enough
[15:45] <AndyEsser> weird that just the small change of longitude between you and me results in the E-W switch
[15:45] <SpeedEvil> http://predict.habhub.org/
[15:45] <fsphil> great time for a regular up-down launch as it keeps it fairly near the launch site
[15:45] <fsphil> it will do it there too
[15:45] <fsphil> just depends on the time of year
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=66017ccbe7d711502c1b398d0e62bc6bba6eb9ce
[15:46] <AndyEsser> but all summer predictions seem to send it East
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> this is the general case for me
[15:46] <AndyEsser> fsphil: ah it's an altitude thing?
[15:46] <fsphil> yeah
[15:46] <fsphil> the high altitude winds over the uk tend to go west in summer, east in winter
[15:46] <fsphil> much slower in the summer to
[15:46] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[15:47] <fsphil> it would take a week to get to canada, if the balloon lasted long enough
[15:48] <fsphil> a long duration float at 30km would be super interesting
[15:48] <eroomde> accidently autoplayed a youtube video in which hans zimmer talked about the challenges of composing the interstellar score at such short notice
[15:48] <eroomde> the gall of that man
[15:48] <fsphil> BAAAAAAAHMM
[15:48] <AndyEsser> fsphil: Yea, a long duration float is something I'd like to attempt at some point
[15:49] <fsphil> yeah it's quite a challange getting them to last more than 24 hours
[15:49] <AndyEsser> let me get a few up-burst-down flights under my belt then I might look at how to do one
[15:49] <AndyEsser> :)
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[15:50] <eroomde> who just called up his PA and said 'Suzie, post them standard movie score 1 please. Oh? photocopier is broken? Is there anything in standard movie score 2? Ok send him that. What? no, two standard scores is plenty. Hollywood isn;t _that_ big. Hotel room at 7pm k thnx bye'
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[15:54] <fsphil> interstellar was not great, overall
[15:54] <Ben-AstroSoc> i enjoyed it tbh
[15:54] <Ben-AstroSoc> computer bluescreened twice in half an hour, good sign
[15:54] <AndyEsser> interstellar was a pile of pretentious wank
[15:55] <daveake> I was going to say "better than Gravity", but that's really not saying much
[15:56] <fsphil> gravity was enjoyable, just not worth a rewatch
[15:56] <Ben-AstroSoc> i enjoyed the Martian more
[15:56] <Ben-AstroSoc> seen it 3 times already >_>
[15:56] <AndyEsser> Gravity was _ok_ in that it wasn't trying to really be anything other than what it was
[15:56] <daveake> I didn't finish Gravity
[15:56] <AndyEsser> but yea... not worth a rewatch
[15:56] <daveake> Martian was great
[15:56] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: Yep :)
[15:56] <AndyEsser> Watched it 4 times now
[15:56] <fsphil> ignore the physics
[15:56] <AndyEsser> 3 in cinema
[15:56] <AndyEsser> 1 of those in the IMAX in Boston
[15:56] <AndyEsser> which was epic
[15:56] <Ben-AstroSoc> i tried to watch 2001 a space odyssey the other day and couldn't get through it
[15:57] <fsphil> nah it's pretty awful too
[15:57] <Ben-AstroSoc> bearing in mind i loved the book
[15:57] <AndyEsser> I'm not convinced I've actually ever watched it
[15:57] <AndyEsser> Moon was enjoyable but again not worth a rewatch
[15:57] <AndyEsser> The Expanse is currently what I'm watching, and as far as 'sci-fi' tv shows go, it's really good
[15:57] <fsphil> is it up there with stargate?
[15:57] <AndyEsser> Can anything be up there with Stargate? :)
[15:57] <fsphil> I'm still angry with sci-fi channel about that
[15:57] <fsphil> and farscape
[15:57] <Ben-AstroSoc> i keep meaning to start the expanse
[15:58] <Ben-AstroSoc> its supposed to be good
[15:58] <AndyEsser> Stargate has the benefit of 17 years worth of content for me to watch and therefore never get bored of it :)
[15:58] <fsphil> Indeed.
[15:58] <AndyEsser> currently skip-watching my way through Atlantis :)
[15:59] <Ben-AstroSoc> the NOTAM reference number you quote cna be anything right?
[15:59] <fsphil> I re-watched some Universe recently. it was great at the end
[15:59] <Ben-AstroSoc> ukra says user defined
[15:59] <fsphil> I don't think I've ever given a reference
[15:59] <Ben-AstroSoc> i'm following their formatting http://www.ukra.org.uk/notam
[16:00] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: for Line A?
[16:00] <daveake> eh what?
[16:00] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah
[16:00] <AndyEsser> I'd suggest just putting the payload name in or something
[16:00] <daveake> I'm confused
[16:00] <daveake> What are you trying to do?
[16:01] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: http://stratosvision.com/docs/CAALaunchForm.doc
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[16:04] <Ben-AstroSoc> TIL there's a form for it
[16:04] <Ben-AstroSoc> i was of the understanding you send a specifically formatted email to apply for NOTAM :p
[16:04] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: TBF - that UKRA page is what I had in my mind when I was last looking at NOTAM stuff
[16:04] <daveake> Nope
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[16:04] <daveake> Fill in form
[16:04] <daveake> Send with map
[16:04] <AndyEsser> the form I've only just found by searching for NOTAM on the UKHAS wiki, finding a project that says "We filled in this form" and links to another page
[16:04] <AndyEsser> https://ukhas.org.uk/general:restrictions_legality#caa_notams
[16:04] <daveake> The CAA have been known to correctly issue permission+notam when people fill in the "tethered ballloon" form (presumably because they don't know what "tethered" means), but it's best to use the correct form
[16:05] <Ben-AstroSoc> right
[16:05] <Ben-AstroSoc> i've got to find me a map
[16:05] <daveake> bing maps works
[16:05] <AndyEsser> maps.google.com
[16:05] <AndyEsser> daveake: o good lord man
[16:05] <daveake> wut?
[16:05] <Ben-AstroSoc> we cna use online maps? fair
[16:05] <AndyEsser> Bing?
[16:06] <daveake> It does OS, which is what the CAA are expecting
[16:06] <AndyEsser> seriously...
[16:06] <daveake> seriously
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[16:06] <Ben-AstroSoc> tfw you can't put cooridnates into bing
[16:07] <AndyEsser> why not https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/osmaps
[16:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> cmon micro$oft
[16:07] <AndyEsser> ?
[16:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> even mor ehelpful
[16:07] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: Again - I've not done this - don't take anything I say or do as golden
[16:07] <AndyEsser> there are experts in this channel
[16:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> i mean it specifically asks for an OS map
[16:07] <AndyEsser> if daveake says use Bing... then I shall have to assume he is not in fact deranged and has a reason to suggest them :P
[16:09] <daveake> CAA specifically ask for OS. Bing does OS. I fail to see a problem with this.
[16:10] <AndyEsser> my issue is the "bing" bit :)
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[16:11] <daveake> I don't know what the emoticon is for "shrugging shoulders", but let's just pretend I typed it
[16:11] <AndyEsser> /\o/\
[16:11] <AndyEsser> lol, that failed
[16:11] <AndyEsser> hehe
[16:11] <Ben-AstroSoc> just gotta get the scale right
[16:12] <daveake> It'd be a lot easier if they just accepted GPS coords
[16:13] <mattbrejza> they probably have the airspace maps printed on the same OS maps so they can just hvae the two side-by-side?
[16:13] <Ben-AstroSoc> i mean i found thte launch site in seconds, its at the back of my house
[16:13] <Ben-AstroSoc> just making sure its zoomed how they want it
[16:13] <AndyEsser> daveake: indeed
[16:13] <AndyEsser> join the 21st century
[16:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/XfRgpuY5/Capture.PNG
[16:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> that look like the right scale?
[16:16] <eroomde> AndyEsser: did you come to the robot wars thing in halesowen that time?
[16:16] <eroomde> that i was helping to organize
[16:16] <eroomde> i feel like you did
[16:16] <Ben-AstroSoc> i think i did 0.0
[16:16] <eroomde> featherweight smash
[16:16] <eroomde> about 11 years ago
[16:16] <Ben-AstroSoc> sounds about right
[16:16] <eroomde> heh
[16:17] <eroomde> that was me!
[16:17] <eroomde> and 2 others
[16:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> was there a raffle for a chunk of full size bot
[16:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> by any chance
[16:17] <eroomde> that sounds quite plausiable
[16:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> as i have a giant shard of perspex after one of the full size ones got smashed in my cupboard
[16:18] <eroomde> yeah 2004
[16:18] <eroomde> christ that was a while ago
[16:18] <eroomde> i was 15 i think
[16:18] <fsphil> yikes, robot wars is ancient
[16:18] <eroomde> first big event i worked on
[16:19] <eroomde> bigrelatively speaking
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[16:19] <fsphil> it's been off air for 12 years
[16:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> just pinged the old man
[16:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> yep, i was there
[16:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> i was 8
[16:20] <eroomde> well, nice to meet you again
[16:21] <Ben-AstroSoc> :)
[16:21] <eroomde> i must have been older than 15
[16:21] <eroomde> 16
[16:21] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I came to _a_ robot wars type thing you arrange at some time
[16:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> i can't get at the chunk of perspex :/
[16:22] <eroomde> that was probably it
[16:22] <eroomde> in halesowen
[16:22] <AndyEsser> Sure...
[16:22] <AndyEsser> :P
[16:23] <AndyEsser> wait... Ben-AstroSoc was at that?
[16:23] <AndyEsser> heh small world
[16:24] <Ben-AstroSoc> yep
[16:24] <Ben-AstroSoc> as a kid
[16:24] <AndyEsser> was it really 11 years ago?!
[16:24] <Ben-AstroSoc> must've been
[16:24] Action: AndyEsser realises he still wasn't that young at the time...
[16:25] <Ben-AstroSoc> i did DofE 5 years ago and i've forgotten how to read OS grid refs ._>
[16:25] Action: Ben-AstroSoc googles it
[16:25] <AndyEsser> XXYYZZ
[16:25] <Ben-AstroSoc> yep
[16:25] <eroomde> we did one in 2003 and one in 2004
[16:25] <Ben-AstroSoc> the notam form splits it up so
[16:25] <Ben-AstroSoc> had to check
[16:25] <eroomde> then i stopped robotwarsing
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[16:26] <AndyEsser> Longer than 11 years ago then
[16:26] <AndyEsser> Was going to say I don't remember driving to it
[16:26] <Ben-AstroSoc> online doesn't give you the map number, im gonna go find it in the bookcase
[16:26] <AndyEsser> so I must've still been at Cranleigh then and went along with Chris
[16:26] <eroomde> yes
[16:26] <eroomde> you were
[16:26] <eroomde> it was definitely in the first half of cranleigh for me
[16:26] <eroomde> when i was still nerdy
[16:26] <AndyEsser> Upper 5th?
[16:26] <eroomde> unlike noqw
[16:26] <AndyEsser> now you're just grumpy and cynical ;)
[16:26] <eroomde> maybe?
[16:27] <eroomde> i'm never grumpy or cynical
[16:27] <eroomde> unduly
[16:27] <AndyEsser> hehe
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[16:28] <Ben-AstroSoc> a'ight got my actual map
[16:28] <AndyEsser> eroomde: had some good times back then :)
[16:28] <Ben-AstroSoc> it's 1:25000 rip
[16:28] Nick change: Guest79514 -> nigelvh
[16:29] <AndyEsser> should not have worn a black jumper when drilling into white plasterboard...
[16:29] <AndyEsser> I'm not convinced the ceiling can take the weight of the monitor I'm trying to mount :(
[16:30] <AndyEsser> *sigh*
[16:30] <eroomde> AndyEsser: it was good
[16:30] <eroomde> DT days
[16:31] <AndyEsser> yea
[16:31] <eroomde> and DT nights i guess with all the tech work
[16:31] <AndyEsser> many good memories of hanging out in DT or doing the Theatre stuff
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[16:31] <Ben-AstroSoc> mmph might have to order it in
[16:31] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: is it 1:50000
[16:31] <AndyEsser> they need?
[16:31] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah
[16:32] <Ben-AstroSoc> the paper copy i have is 1:25000 so i can't provice map number or grid square
[16:32] <AndyEsser> The OS website gives you grid ref?
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[16:32] <Ben-AstroSoc> notam form wants map number, grid letters, easting (3fig), northing(3fig)
[16:33] <AndyEsser> ah ok, apologies
[16:33] <AndyEsser> "Full postal address of field"
[16:33] <AndyEsser> "Erm... it's a field... along a road..."
[16:34] <Ben-AstroSoc> i mean i was just gonna put my actual address for that
[16:34] <AndyEsser> (Sorry, that comment was about my site)
[16:34] <AndyEsser> :)
[16:34] <Ben-AstroSoc> i think there's a gate on the nearby lane so i migh tput that
[16:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> apparently theres a new edition coming out in the 24/2
[16:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> wonder if its worth waiting for that
[16:37] <eroomde> Re: solder chat the other day
[16:37] <eroomde> gavanic corrosion from mating parts: http://i.imgur.com/9l5nDNa.jpg
[16:37] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: What's map number?
[16:37] <Ben-AstroSoc> 139
[16:38] <eroomde> not mating sorry, but identical, both connected to a different metal, but one was exposed to cutting fluid which acted as an electrolyte
[16:38] <AndyEsser> no I mean.. what is a map number?
[16:38] <eroomde> the other was dry
[16:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> just paid a fiver for the older version
[16:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> oh, OS sheets are split int oa grid across teh country
[16:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> http://www.trailwise.org.uk/images/sheets.gif
[16:39] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[16:39] <chris_99> did you guys see the OS map of mars?
[16:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah
[16:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> spend half an hour going over it
[16:39] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: that's annoying that the OS map website doesn't give that number
[16:39] <AndyEsser> but gives the letters and easting/northing ok
[16:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> yep
[16:39] <mfa298> Ben-AstroSoc: if you've got any nearby 1:50000 (pink) maps you should be able to work out map number from the back
[16:39] <AndyEsser> mfa298: yea, his is 1:25000
[16:40] <AndyEsser> but he's worked that much out
[16:40] <Ben-AstroSoc> i've only got a 1:25000 :/
[16:40] <AndyEsser> I was just unaware of this numbering scheme so he was enlightening me
[16:40] <Ben-AstroSoc> i don't know if the gridrefs change based on scale
[16:40] <Ben-AstroSoc> which thinking baout it sounds stupid
[16:40] <mfa298> although if you've got the letters and 6fig reference I'm not really sure why they'de need the map number apart from being lazy
[16:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Map numbers are here http://www.cassinimaps.co.uk/shop/uploads/popular/POPavailableAll.gif
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[16:41] <Ben-AstroSoc> what i know: map number 139; ref SO 94453 82669
[16:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> so matching ot the notam, number 139, grid letters SO (?) easting 944 nothing 826?
[16:42] <mfa298> grid references should be the same across all maps. But map numbers can change (it's effectively just in index)
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[16:44] <mfa298> according to the back of one of my 1:50000 maps, map 139 is Birmingham
[16:45] <Ben-AstroSoc> yep, confirmed that
[16:45] <Ben-AstroSoc> trying to make sure i give them the right easting/northing now
[16:45] <mfa298> and according to http://www.ukmapcentre.com/acatalog/help.html#.VsSjl9CvGUk SO looks plausible
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[16:46] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah i was just on the OS grid ref wiki, confirmed grid letter
[16:46] <mfa298> if they want a 6fig reference you've got too many numbers, You probably want 944 826
[16:48] <mfa298> the standard is along the corridor and up the stairs, so along to the square 94 and then 4/10's into that box.
[16:48] <mfa298> and up to box 82 and 6/10's into the box.
[16:48] <Ben-AstroSoc> gotcha, that sounds familiar from DofE
[16:51] <Ben-AstroSoc> k confirmed the postcode of teh field
[16:51] <mfa298> the extra 53 along and 69 up gives more precision (I think 1m precision for the full 10fig number above)
[16:51] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah, it's 10s of metres from the bottom left corner of the grid letter
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[16:52] <mfa298> if your Uni subscribes to it there's http://digimap.edina.ac.uk/ which can be very useful.
[16:53] <Ben-AstroSoc> i'll tyr it
[16:53] <Ben-AstroSoc> i'd be surprsied though
[16:53] <Ben-AstroSoc> colour me surprsied
[16:53] <Ben-AstroSoc> i'm in
[16:53] <mfa298> certainly used to let you download/print to scale OS maps down to something like 1:1250
[16:54] <Babs____> Bonjour everyone - random question of the week. Has anyone done a calc/established a formula that looks at the force on a floating balloon in say newtons per metre for a sphere of a certain size? Just looking at what my seal strength needs to be on the gores for one I am competing
[16:56] <mattbrejza> i think leo put a pressure sensor in one of his once
[16:56] <mattbrejza> i think the answer is 'not much' though
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[16:57] <AndyEsser> Bye then :)
[16:57] <Ben-AstroSoc> i guess i'll give them the map with a 2km boundary
[16:59] <Ben-AstroSoc> digmaps turns up a completely different grid ref
[16:59] <Ben-AstroSoc> oh theyre using numeric
[16:59] <Ben-AstroSoc> never mind
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[17:01] <Babs____> Thanks mattbrejza
[17:02] <mattbrejza> :)
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[17:07] <AndyEsser> Right, ohm time
[17:07] Babs____ (~babs@31.221.49.218) joined #highaltitude.
[17:07] <Babs____> I have a rotary heat sealer to do the sealing
[17:08] <Babs____> But then didnt know wehther to supplement it by some double sided tape
[17:12] <Babs____> http://www.abcoffice.com/10mm-hand-held-wheel-heat-sealer.htm
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[18:30] <Ben-AstroSoc> tempted to get that mars OS map printed nice and high quality
[18:30] <Ben-AstroSoc> can't think what else to use my student loan on /s
[18:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03TestiN - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TestiN
[19:02] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: food, rent... books...?
[19:02] <Ben-AstroSoc> live at home, live at home, PDFs
[19:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> >_>
[19:03] <AndyEsser> damn tax dodging students ;)
[19:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> i mean i'm saving £3k from what i'd be spending if i wanted a house for 2nd year
[19:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> especially considering i have to find a place in oxford asap
[19:09] <Ian_> Save what you can, you will need it soon enough!
[19:09] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah, not expecting to have much change after a year in oxford..!
[19:16] <mfa298> I doubt it's still the case, but it used to be worth claiming the full student loan amount and sticking it in a bank account with decent interest.
[19:16] <mfa298> there's not so many bank accounts with decent interest these days.
[19:17] <Ian_> I think that you are quite right about the lack of interest rates.
[19:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> not sure you can do that now seeing as i don't even see the tuition fees and the rest is over 3 payments
[19:19] <mfa298> back in the day you could put the loan in a bank account and earn interest on it whilst paying no interest on the loan.
[19:20] <Ben-AstroSoc> jammy
[19:21] <Ben-AstroSoc> trying to wipe 5gb off my laptop so i can install atmel studio
[19:21] <Ben-AstroSoc> should probably learn hwo to use makefiles
[19:21] <mfa298> £1000 at 1% would buy you 10 pints at the end of the year (and the amount of money and interest rate were probably a bit higher than that as well)
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[19:22] <mattbrejza> Ben-AstroSoc: https://github.com/cuspaceflight/joey-m/blob/master/firmware/Makefile
[19:23] <mattbrejza> not really sure what atmel studio does seeing as you probably wont be doing any debugging
[19:23] <mfa298> Makefiles are fun, and initially pretty simple (then you start thinking of the crazy things you could try with them and it gets more interesting)
[19:24] <Ben-AstroSoc> only using it since we were taught avr programming on avr studio 4 and i've got enough new stuff to be digging through as it is :/
[19:24] <mattbrejza> perhaps you should find a copy of v4 seeing as im fairly sure that wasnt 5GB
[19:24] <Ben-AstroSoc> unfortunately doesn't run on windows 7
[19:25] <mattbrejza> ive had it running on 7
[19:25] <Ben-AstroSoc> installer crashes on mine
[19:25] <mattbrejza> huh
[19:25] <mattbrejza> run as adminstrator and all that stuff?
[19:25] <mattbrejza> i think once i changed an install directory from default and that upset it
[19:26] <Ben-AstroSoc> i'll have another look, remember trying twice - initiated install and it disappeared off into the background and hung
[19:26] <mattbrejza> weird
[19:26] <Ben-AstroSoc> i'm ccleanering my laptop atm since it's already painfully slow
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[19:26] <mattbrejza> obviously make files need make on windows too. I have it installed but dont remember where it came from
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[19:30] <garymortimer> Has this been post today, 1000 squid schools challenge http://www.bdballoonchallenge.org/
[19:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> apparently you can use eclipse for avr (already on my laptop and i know how to use it) but it's hella buggy by the looks of it
[19:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> maybe not
[19:40] <craag> hmm not less than 1hz gps garymortimer
[19:40] <craag> That's a bit of a strange requirement
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[19:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> setting launch time window from 0700 to 1200 seems reasonable i think
[19:47] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: eclipse is nasty AF
[19:47] <Ben-AstroSoc> i spent 18 months being taught it for Java, you're not wrong but i'm familiar with it >_>
[19:48] <Ben-AstroSoc> i think proteus/ARES/ISIS is the only set of tools i've been taught that people actually like x)
[19:49] <AndyEsser> i jumped from Eclipse to IntelliJ after it pissed me off royally
[19:50] <Ben-AstroSoc> i don't have to do any more CS coursework from now on so i guess i can avoid it
[19:52] <Ben-AstroSoc> installing avr studio 4.19 attempt 3
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[19:53] <AndyEsser> LiPo charging chip?
[19:53] <AndyEsser> fsphil?
[19:55] <craag> mcp73831?
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[20:00] <LunarMobile> Hello
[20:01] <AndyEsser> craag: thanks - can just pump the 5v from a USB connection into it?
[20:02] <craag> exactly AndyEsser
[20:03] <AndyEsser> with these charging IC's, the 'output', I can just stick to the +v pin of the battery? whilst the +v continues to power the circuit?
[20:03] <AndyEsser> Or do I need to do something to switch between charging/discharging via a relay or something?
[20:04] <mattbrejza> a couple diodes works too
[20:04] <craag> AndyEsser: you can leave it connected
[20:05] <craag> The datasheet specificies the current when Vdd < Vbat
[20:05] <LunarMobile> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1lke6hPHKJDa2lzN0FrV05mdlk/view?usp=docslist_api
[20:05] <craag> (<5uA)
[20:05] <craag> So it's not going to drain the battery!
[20:05] <LunarMobile> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1lke6hPHKJDWEJxS2lpamJ3ZUE/view?usp=docslist_api
[20:05] <mattbrejza> i was referring to something else with the diodes
[20:06] <LunarMobile> Done
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[20:07] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: http://imgur.com/cYyarMC
[20:07] <AndyEsser> ?
[20:08] <craag> Connect it all together AndyEsser
[20:08] <mattbrejza> no you dont need to bother with taht
[20:08] <craag> else the IC will get confused with incorrect voltage
[20:08] <AndyEsser> ok
[20:08] <AndyEsser> so just link them all together?
[20:08] <craag> yep
[20:08] <mattbrejza> i was referring to a method to power the circuit from the usb power and having the charger charging the battery
[20:09] <AndyEsser> sounds simple enough :)
[20:09] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: so with hooking them all up together
[20:09] <AndyEsser> say I have a battery and the USB attached
[20:09] <craag> I assume you have some other way of switching the circuit off?
[20:09] <AndyEsser> what's actually powerig the circuit?
[20:09] <AndyEsser> craag: take the cables out
[20:09] <AndyEsser> wasn't going to have a power button...
[20:10] <craag> the charger IC will supply the current it's rated for whenever the battery is less than charged
[20:10] <craag> so with the circuit connected pulling say, 100mA, and the charger is set for 500mA
[20:10] <garymortimer> @craag the requirement to be in the Boscombe Down area will restrict things a little as well!
[20:11] <craag> then the battery will discharge, the charger will switch back on, charge it up at (500-100)mA, then switch off again
[20:14] <AndyEsser> So to fully charge, I'd need to basically have a way to disable the circuit completely and just leave the charging IC connected to the Battery?
[20:14] <craag> If the charger can supply more current than your circuit takes then it will fully charge, just slower
[20:15] <craag> how much current does your tracker draw roughly?
[20:15] <AndyEsser> I haven't calculated it yet - one of the reasons for finally drawing out the circuit is to work that out
[20:16] <craag> It's not going to be more than 200mA I'd have thought though
[20:16] <craag> SO you'd be fine
[20:16] <AndyEsser> Depends ho
[20:16] <AndyEsser> ...
[20:17] <AndyEsser> depends how much current the SD Card draws, and the GPS/NTX2b when receiving/transmitting
[20:17] <craag> Just set the Rprog to 500mA output on the MCP73831
[20:17] <craag> so ublox is ~70mA peak
[20:17] <craag> ntx2 is 20mA
[20:17] <craag> sd card might be 20mA or so max?
[20:18] <craag> you'll be fine :)
[20:18] <AndyEsser> really? thought the sd card might take a bunch more than that
[20:18] <AndyEsser> heh
[20:18] <AndyEsser> my unofficial budget is 200mA but that's mainly a number pulled out of the air, rather than based on anything scientific
[20:18] <AndyEsser> ideally I'd like to get it under 130mA
[20:19] <AndyEsser> That'd give me roughly 10 hours on the batteries I'm looking at
[20:19] <AndyEsser> (not accouting for temperature)
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[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> back :)
[20:26] <fsphil> g'day
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[20:30] <AndyEsser> right... time to stick in an FTDI/MCP (eroomde's suggestion) and a real-time clock and then I should hopefully be ready to draw this up in Eagle/KiCAD :)
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[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> there is still a flaw
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> TEST on FTDI should have been tied to GND, and I wondered why the USB port suddenly was gone
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> but no problem, bridged TEST and AGND
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[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> antihelion http://s.gullipics.com/image/o/w/w/5yv7d3-l5605q-t551/vlcsnap2016021721h37m43s936.png
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[20:57] <AndyEsser> http://imgur.com/SKpl9iI
[20:57] <AndyEsser> Circuit Review please
[20:57] <AndyEsser> kthnxbai
[20:57] <AndyEsser> :)
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> balloon average descent rate was 12.2 m/s
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> that's as fast as Usuain Bolt
[20:58] <AndyEsser> lol
[20:58] <chris_99> Very neatly drawn AndyEsser :)
[20:59] <AndyEsser> chris_99: oddly enough sitting on the floor with a whiteboard on your lap isn't all that comfortable
[20:59] <AndyEsser> haha
[20:59] <chris_99> haha
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> 329?
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> that's a LCD micro
[21:00] <Upu> I think we need to introduce you to Eagle AndyEsser
[21:00] <chris_99> heh
[21:00] <AndyEsser> Upu: I'll be moving it to KiCAD this weekend
[21:00] <AndyEsser> but I like the speed and ease of using a whiteboard to start with
[21:00] <AndyEsser> Lunar_Lander: ?
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> the writing inside of the AVR
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> 328 or 329?
[21:01] <AndyEsser> 328p
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> the 9 series has LCD controllers inside
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:01] <Upu> C8 and the battery backup aren't needed just tie it up to VCC
[21:02] <AndyEsser> but I want a battery backup for when the LiPo is disconnected
[21:02] <AndyEsser> keeps the RTC going and the GPS gets a warm start
[21:04] <Upu> ok
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[21:06] <AndyEsser> Upu: not sure how long a single coin cell will last powering those
[21:07] <craag> It's a few weeks iirc
[21:07] <craag> at least
[21:07] <AndyEsser> Ah, that's good :)
[21:08] <AndyEsser> Anyone here used the ZXCT1107?
[21:18] <Vaizki> why don't you draw circuits in eagle or kicad.. easier to share.. :)
[21:19] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: as explained earlier, I like working on the whiteboard whilst sortig out the details
[21:19] <AndyEsser> :)
[21:19] <Vaizki> easier to change too..
[21:19] <AndyEsser> will draw it up into KiCAD this weekend
[21:21] <Vaizki> in terms of circuit review.. just tie NTX2B pin EN to Vxx
[21:21] <Vaizki> Vcc even
[21:21] <AndyEsser> I wasn't being serious about circuit review
[21:21] <AndyEsser> Also, I like being able to control EN on the NTX2B
[21:21] <Vaizki> that way you at least get a carrier if your micro somehow hangs
[21:21] <Vaizki> do you want to do a computer of find the payload? ;)
[21:22] <Vaizki> or
[21:22] <AndyEsser> uC hanging should be a small possibility, especially as I'll be running dual trackers
[21:22] <AndyEsser> :)
[21:22] <Vaizki> needing to shut off the NTX2B is an even smaller possibility
[21:22] <Vaizki> why take a risk
[21:23] <AndyEsser> I really dislike continuous broadcasting carrier :(
[21:23] <AndyEsser> but I guess maybe
[21:23] <Vaizki> well guess what dl-fldigi really likes it
[21:25] <AndyEsser> True, but it shouldn't need it continuously surely? 10 seconds before packets or whatever should be enough, right?
[21:25] <Upu> always transmit
[21:25] <Vaizki> always always run rtty out
[21:25] <Upu> or your key up will screw dl-fldigi with drift
[21:25] <Vaizki> when you are done with one sentence just send the next
[21:26] <AndyEsser> hmmm
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[21:27] <Vaizki> if you don't get a GPS location, just send the last known good position
[21:27] <Vaizki> but always keep sending
[21:27] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: yea, currently that's what the code does
[21:29] <Vaizki> well, just saying that the worst kind of payload to find is one that doesn't transmit
[21:29] <Vaizki> regardless of what the reason for that might be or how small the possibility
[21:29] <AndyEsser> Yea, I fully get that
[21:29] <AndyEsser> And appreciate you both have significantly more experience than me
[21:30] <Rebounder> AndyEsser: the most recent flight around here ended up with unlock of gps but the team was able to track it quite ok anyway.
[21:30] <Vaizki> ha, I haven't flown anything yet
[21:30] <AndyEsser> it just... really doesn't sit right with me to relinquish all that control :P
[21:30] <AndyEsser> and continuously transmitting seems inefficient power-wise
[21:30] <Vaizki> well it also allows you to get the best last known position
[21:30] <craag> you want to continuously transmit
[21:31] <Vaizki> you want to make sure someone catches that last packet just before the tracker goes below the radio horizon
[21:31] <craag> It also means you can see at a glance whether receivers are tuned correctly
[21:31] <craag> which is v useful when you're a bit stressed :)
[21:32] <AndyEsser> Fine!!
[21:32] <AndyEsser> :P
[21:32] <Vaizki> only reason to shut off ntx2b I guess would be to turn it off if the payload is not recovered before dark.. and turn it back on the next day :)
[21:33] <daveake> If you don't find it before dark, it's pretty lost
[21:33] <Vaizki> but then you'd want to sleep the uC and gps.. and..
[21:33] <AndyEsser> whether or not I do that - I don't have the option if the PCB hard-wires it on
[21:33] <Vaizki> a host of complexity is introduced
[21:33] <daveake> Recovering can be done the next day if it's late
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[21:33] <daveake> Doesn't matter so long as you get the last position
[21:34] <Vaizki> if you want more runtime, add more primaries
[21:34] <Vaizki> that was my thinking
[21:34] <AndyEsser> tell you what... I'll have it connected to the uC, but with a simple jumper up to Vcc which I can always stick on and glue in place if I don't need the control :)
[21:34] <AndyEsser> fair compromise?
[21:35] <daveake> "stick on and glue". Yeah sounds like that could never fail :/
[21:35] <Vaizki> hey it's your tracker and I just stupidly assumed you want ideas :)
[21:35] <AndyEsser> it's what was suggested for my GPS "hardware in the loop" connector :)
[21:35] <AndyEsser> by adamgreig
[21:35] <AndyEsser> :)
[21:35] <daveake> solder to vcc the end get on with something less likely to foul up the entire flight
[21:36] <Vaizki> wait is that a USB connector and lipo charger in there?
[21:37] <AndyEsser> yes
[21:37] <Vaizki> :O ok well I will lay off you and just reiterate.. 23:21 Vaizki: do you want to do a computer of find the payload? ;)
[21:38] <AndyEsser> :)
[21:38] <AndyEsser> both
[21:38] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: I'm appreciating the input
[21:38] <AndyEsser> it's what the channel is for :)
[21:40] <Vaizki> RTC? is that a RTC?
[21:40] <Vaizki> I can't read :)
[21:40] <AndyEsser> What's the correct answer to not get shouted at? :P
[21:40] <Vaizki> why do you need a RTC when you have a gps?
[21:41] <Vaizki> I don't shout.. I am just an iterative development kind of guy :)
[21:41] <Vaizki> I like to build the minimum viable product, test it and then decide whether I need to put in more features or just test the hell out of this one and release
[21:41] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: the GPS only provides date/time whe nit has a lock, does it not?
[21:42] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: if I had the ability to make PCBs here then that's what I would do
[21:42] <Vaizki> well if the gps has a backup battery then it will maintain time in "holdover" I think=
[21:42] <AndyEsser> but by doing this amount, I can easily disable or not solder stuff in if I get it wrong - but then it's there if I get it right
[21:43] <Vaizki> so what do you use the date and time for when you have no lock?
[21:43] <AndyEsser> logfile
[21:45] <Vaizki> would it be really bold to suggest that you just log delta-T from boot and timestamps if you have them..
[21:45] <AndyEsser> And if the uC resets?
[21:45] <AndyEsser> delta-T resets then, and either overwrites data, or corrupts the data
[21:46] <Vaizki> well I would never write logging that overwrites based on timestamps..
[21:46] <AndyEsser> no, but logfile names might be done based on date for example
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[21:46] <AndyEsser> logfile contents just get appended
[21:46] <Vaizki> I would not use a file system either
[21:47] <Vaizki> not on a 328p memory footprint.. if you can fit it in, fine
[21:47] <AndyEsser> challenge accepted!
[21:47] <AndyEsser> :)
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[21:49] <Vaizki> I would write to raw SD card, 512 bytes at a time.. reset the card to all ones before the flight. write header blocks every 16kB or something so you can safely continue from a reboot into an unused block
[21:50] <Vaizki> or something like that.. you can go all fancy with that too :)
[21:50] <AndyEsser> why all ones and not zeroes?
[21:50] <mfa298> I think you're supposed to have decoupling on the AVR AREF and AVCC pins (although can probably get away without)
[21:50] <AndyEsser> oops... AVCC did have it - I think I must have rubbed it out
[21:50] <AndyEsser> that's
[21:50] <Vaizki> AndyEsser: I guess it doesn't matter.. legacy thinking.. when you erase flash it goes to all-1s
[21:50] <AndyEsser> AREF was left open (as I'm only using the internal 1.1v ref)
[21:50] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: I didn't know that
[21:51] <AndyEsser> thanks
[21:51] <Vaizki> that's NOR flash.. no idea if SD cards care a flying-f
[21:51] <mfa298> I think (although as while since reading the relevant app note) that aref should also have a decoupling cap to ground even for the internal 1.1v ref
[21:52] <AndyEsser> mfa298: Yea, it was a question that was left unanswered on my list
[21:52] <AndyEsser> on my breadboard it's left open and if I switch to the internal 1.1v it does then have a 1.1v reference on
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[21:52] <AndyEsser> so suspect I Should decouple down to ground or something
[21:53] <AndyEsser> s/have a 1.1v reference/have a 1.1v voltgate
[21:53] <AndyEsser> omg...
[21:53] <AndyEsser> voltage*
[21:53] <AndyEsser> I need to go to bed I think
[21:53] <Vaizki> heh.. SD Association specs: The data at the card after an erase operation is either '0' or '1', depends on the card vendor.
[21:53] <AndyEsser> hah
[21:54] <Vaizki> oh The SCR register bit DATA_STAT_AFTER_ERASE (bit 55) defines whether it is '0' or '1'.
[21:54] <Vaizki> so it's not undefined at least
[21:54] <mfa298> I think you want an app note for aref connections, not sure if I know which one off hand though
[21:54] <Vaizki> gotta love a register with bit 55
[21:54] <AndyEsser> that's a fairly wide register
[21:54] <AndyEsser> :)
[21:55] <AndyEsser> mfa298: it's on my list and I'll dig out whatever I need to do this weekend when drawing it up
[21:55] <Vaizki> just 64 bits on SCR
[21:56] <Vaizki> but sleep time for me.. early wakeup
[21:56] <mfa298> going back to the ntx2b en conversation, I'd be tempted to have a couple of solder bridges / 0R resitors, so you can choose to connect en to the mcu or vcc at build time. Still gives the flexibility, but safer than a jumper
[21:56] <AndyEsser> mfa298: yea - that might be better as you say than a jumper
[21:56] <Vaizki> tracks can be cut with a knife also
[21:56] <Vaizki> HACK! KLUDGE!
[21:57] <Vaizki> aka real-world solution
[21:57] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: that, and soldered on bits of wire, upset me
[21:57] <AndyEsser> :P
[22:00] <Vaizki> some people fly breaboards :D
[22:00] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: I was tempted to chuck a foil party balloon onto my breadboard and float it from my garden
[22:00] <Vaizki> ok time to sleep, really&
[22:01] <AndyEsser> but not for an actual 'missino'
[22:01] <AndyEsser> mission*
[22:01] <AndyEsser> night Vaizki
[22:01] <AndyEsser> thanks for your inupt
[22:01] <AndyEsser> input*
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[22:03] <AndyEsser> I have 4 spare ADC inputs... any thoughts on what to use them for? :)
[22:06] <R34lB0rg> wrap a photodiode in tinfoil and try to measure ionizing radiation
[22:10] <craag> exercise your restraint AndyEsser, you don't need to connect everything ;)
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[22:12] <AndyEsser> craag: I don't understand those words :P
[22:12] <AndyEsser> I'll just stick space/tracks for a 4-pin header to them on the board, that way I can always connect something if I want to at a later date
[22:12] <AndyEsser> :)
[22:12] <mfa298> when you do your pcb you could always bring unused pins out onto a header, then you can easily add something later via a seperate board
[22:12] <mfa298> or what you just said
[22:12] <mfa298> :P
[22:12] <AndyEsser> :)
[22:12] Action: AndyEsser likes to think he's not a _complete_ muppet
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> Just the top half then?
[22:14] <mfa298> so just one of the grumpy men ?
[22:15] <AndyEsser> SpeedEvil: the muppet-ness is evenly distributed throughout the body :P
[22:15] <AndyEsser> mfa298: I am the poster child for grumpy men
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/AYDvEF8
[22:16] <AndyEsser> heh
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[22:48] <MikeUoN> Hi everyone.
[22:49] <MikeUoN> I've been working out a circuit to help me experiment with a pico payload - it's my first design, would anyone be able to give it a look over? I can't promise it will be pretty. :D
[22:49] <MikeUoN> In Eagle.
[22:51] <MikeUoN> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_2uhKLDq4Geb2EzZm5BNkNiQ28&usp=sharing
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[22:53] <fsphil> can you make a pdf?
[22:54] <dbrooke> AndyEsser: R4 should be between the AVR and the R3/R5
[22:55] <MikeUoN> Sure thing fsphil, 5 mins
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[23:00] <MikeUoN> okay the PDF's should be up - the board has come out terrible though, probably best to disregard that
[23:05] <mattbrejza> best way to shrae boards is to generate gerbers and throw at gerblook
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[23:06] <MikeUoN> I will look into that now, mattbrejza, thanks
[23:06] <mattbrejza> square vias are ugly ;)
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[23:06] <MikeUoN> indeed ;)
[23:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> your simulation is prettier than ours is D:
[23:10] <Ben-AstroSoc> http://i.imgur.com/tJrYFqW.png we're working with this atm
[23:10] <MikeUoN> It's just plain old Eagle Ben :( No simulation
[23:11] <MikeUoN> Looks really cool though! This for a latex balloon?
[23:11] <Ben-AstroSoc> ours is, yeah
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[23:12] <MikeUoN> nice
[23:12] <Ben-AstroSoc> nottingham uni?
[23:13] <MikeUoN> Yep, you?
[23:13] <Ben-AstroSoc> aston
[23:13] <Ben-AstroSoc> nearly went to nottingham but they didn't do EECS
[23:14] <MikeUoN> Ah fair enough
[23:14] <MikeUoN> First year?
[23:14] <Ben-AstroSoc> second
[23:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> building our avionics computer as our main project
[23:15] <MikeUoN> cool!
[23:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> then we roped the uni into paying for the rest of it :3
[23:16] <MikeUoN> Nice, same here ;)
[23:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> how far along into design are you? looks like you're ahead of us
[23:18] <Ben-AstroSoc> oh avr studio finally installed, rolled back a few patches until it worked
[23:20] <mattbrejza> oh lol
[23:22] <fsphil> like the camera breakout. does the pic24 have enough grunt to handle images?
[23:22] <MikeUoN> well, I was going to use a bit of jiggery pokery
[23:22] <MikeUoN> That can come much later though, :P
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> hi MikeUoN
[23:23] <MikeUoN> May I ask which layer is supposed to be the "outline layer" from Gerbers?
[23:23] <MikeUoN> Hi LL! how's it going
[23:23] <fsphil> I'm curious why you didn't go all SMD?
[23:24] <MikeUoN> put bluntly, laziness :P
[23:24] <Ben-AstroSoc> that's the spirit
[23:25] <MikeUoN> This is just a dev board, most (all?) of the through hole will be gone from the 'final' version
[23:25] <Ben-AstroSoc> we're through-holing all of our stuff at the moment, makes things less fiddly
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> quite good thanks mike
[23:25] <Ben-AstroSoc> also the uni soldering irons are kack and i like my blood pressure where it is
[23:25] <MikeUoN> Perhaps someone who has eagle or altium could create the gerbers, can't seem to figure out the outline layer... :/
[23:26] <mattbrejza> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mattbrejza/eagle-lib/master/gen.cam
[23:26] <MikeUoN> Oh don't even get me started on trying to build stuff with uni equipment Ben xD
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> kack xD
[23:26] <mattbrejza> your uni needs to buy some jbc gear...
[23:27] <MikeUoN> heh, something with more than 12W would be nice :P
[23:27] <MikeUoN> What is that, sorry matt
[23:28] <fsphil> not to be confused with jcb
[23:28] <fsphil> that's very different gear
[23:28] <MikeUoN> yes, took me a second xD
[23:29] <mattbrejza> JBC make the best irons and we have quite a lot of their stuff here
[23:30] <MikeUoN> nice
[23:30] <MikeUoN> So can I presume the circuit and PCB are okay? (apart from mix of through hole, smds :P)
[23:31] <Ben-AstroSoc> i have a nice temp controlled iron at home
[23:32] <fsphil> don't think it will explode
[23:32] <fsphil> I'm not familiar with pic or that radio module
[23:32] <MikeUoN> thats good enough for me fsphil
[23:32] <MikeUoN> ;)
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[23:40] <fsphil> might be useful to break out more pins from the cpu
[23:40] <fsphil> you've plenty of space around there
[23:40] <MikeUoN> yeah, I was 50/50 on that one
[23:40] <MikeUoN> cant do any _harm_ I suppose
[23:41] <fsphil> yeah, even if you don't solder on headers
[23:43] <MikeUoN> kk i sprinkle a few on
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[23:50] <Oddstr13> any thoughts on wether I should be putting VCC and GND pins together with the different data ports?
[23:53] <Oddstr13> as in, [VCC GND RXD TXD] [VCC GND SDA SCL] [VCC GND CS0 MOSI MISO SCK]
[23:59] <Ian_> It does appear to have the benefit of being logical vis-a-vis breakout connectors (but idk) :)
[00:00] --- Thu Feb 18 2016