highaltitude.log.20160216

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[00:38] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[02:43] <nickolai> Hi all. I did a couple of balloon launches a couple years ago and have been thinking about getting back into it. I relied a lot on Upu's advice last time, and used an NTX2 transmitter, and borrowed a receiver from the local radio club. As I get back into it, I was thinking about better solutions for receiving, and stumbled across this: https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker. It looks really interesting, but I wonder if someone
[02:43] <nickolai> could explain why SDR is not recommended as a primary means of receiving?
[02:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
[02:51] <adamgreig> honestly i think these days they really could be
[02:51] <adamgreig> the cheap SDR dongles you get for £10 are not very good though
[02:52] <adamgreig> and are less likely to receive weak signals than a "proper" receiver as you may have borrowed
[02:52] <adamgreig> the more expensive SDRs are quite capable
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[05:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CCC_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CCC_chase
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[05:26] <nickolai> Could you recommend a dongle, or at least recommend ones to avoid?
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[05:34] <nickolai> Hm, I found this site with some recommendations about cheap and pricier SDR's: http://www.rtl-sdr.com/about-rtl-sdr/. I'm still a little skeptical that the performance of the cheaper ones wouldn't be good enough for HAB... I guess I'll buy one and try to run some on ground experiments :)
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[06:34] <Upu> nickolai: they are fine for testing
[06:41] <nickolai> Hey Upu, thanks for joining the conversation :). What has led you to the opinion that these devices wouldn't be good enough for actual HAB flights? Have you attempted to use it as a receiver during a flight, or is this coming from playing with it on the ground?
[06:42] <Upu> they are a bit cheap and nasty, the frequency drifts they are susceptible to interference etc etc
[06:42] <Upu> you could get as proper SDR like the Airspy
[06:46] <nickolai> Looks like that's $200 though. I'm interested in building a cheap receiver to go with the transmitter, like sub $50... I started looking at the NRX2 since that seemed like an obvious path, but I stumbled upon a post of yours in a forum that it wouldn't be able to receive the SSB RTTY coming from the NTX2?
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[07:00] <Upu> no
[07:00] <Upu> its not sensitive enough
[07:01] <Upu> RTL stick will be fine for testing and may be ok for actual launches I just wouldn't recommend it :)
[07:01] <Upu> afk off to work
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[07:24] <R34lB0rg> good morning people
[07:24] <SM0ULC-Reb> nickolai: buy a couple of r820t2's on ebay for $6-7 each and try them out for starters. then you have time to decide on what better choice you want
[07:25] <Vaizki> nickolai: if you want a sub-$50 receiver it's a rtl-sdr stick with r820t2 and upu's habamp
[07:25] <Vaizki> upu is just too modest to advertise ;)
[07:26] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: i agree. the rtl-sdr's dongle has built in bias-t
[07:28] <SM0ULC-Reb> nickolai: do you have some good antennas? yagi?
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[07:45] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> I agree , the rtl sdr is verrygood, its all sits in the antenna and lna, put your money there
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[07:46] Nick change: SA6BSS-Mike|2 -> SA6BSS-Mike
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[07:53] <SA6BSS-Mike> posted a video a couple of week ago, comparing a rtl-sdr vs sdrplay listening to a 70cm beacon 120km away, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAXW-QKm06U
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[08:37] <AndyEsser> morning all
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[08:37] <fl_0> morning
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[08:42] <R34lB0rg> +3500Pa since mindnight - this land must be going down ;)
[08:43] <AndyEsser> daveake: so, bacon butties for launch... chip shop for recovery? :P
[08:44] <fsphil> no launch today
[08:44] <gonzo_> I did like the reasons
[08:44] <AndyEsser> fsphil: :(
[08:45] <AndyEsser> who was supposed to be launching?
[08:45] <fsphil> daveake was going to do a test flight today
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[08:46] <AndyEsser> ah
[08:46] <daveake> morning
[08:46] Nick change: SA6BSS-Mike|2 -> SA6BSS-Mike
[08:46] <fsphil> nothing wrong with launching in a snow storm...
[08:47] <fsphil> not like you need to use your fingers for anything
[08:47] <R34lB0rg> but don't forget de-icing before launch
[08:48] <daveake> Launching in a snowstorm is OK, if you're being paid :/
[08:48] Action: AndyEsser adds to list of things to try
[08:48] <daveake> But for a little test flight, I'll wait :)
[08:49] <gonzo_> he didn't seem to mind the 'Brrrrr' last time. Though that may have been because he was dressed warmer tham some at the recovery site
[08:49] <daveake> hah
[08:49] <fsphil> that flight did produce possibly the oddest recovery pictures
[08:49] <daveake> not actually the recovery site
[08:49] <R34lB0rg> url?
[08:49] <daveake> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33mC6MUDA7g
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[08:53] <R34lB0rg> recovery in a wedding dress - nice idea
[08:53] <AndyEsser> good lord...
[08:53] Action: AndyEsser vomits
[08:53] <daveake> What really happened http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=952
[08:54] <AndyEsser> daveake: tell me you didn't edit that video?
[08:54] <fsphil> "Will you, daveake, take this HAB and promise to launch it, and then recover it through snow and up trees."
[08:54] <AndyEsser> :)
[08:54] <AndyEsser> the HABbers vow
[08:54] <daveake> I just fly the balloons :)
[08:54] <daveake> lol fsphil
[08:54] <AndyEsser> was it made by some University Drama study?
[08:54] <AndyEsser> student*
[08:54] <AndyEsser> :P
[08:55] <gonzo_> at least the wedding breakfast is a given
[08:55] <daveake> I dunno, people complain about all HAB videos being the same as each other ...
[08:55] <AndyEsser> this is a bit too far... :P
[08:55] <AndyEsser> don't get me wrong - I like the idea
[08:55] <AndyEsser> but... cringe
[08:55] <AndyEsser> :P
[08:56] <fsphil> you're not wedded to the idea?
[08:56] <AndyEsser> I do... not like
[08:57] <AndyEsser> daveake: haha - without reading your blog post, I'd never have twigged it was a mini dress :P
[08:58] <gonzo_> it's a bit more creative than them going quad biking or similar, to kill the dress
[08:58] <daveake> Yeah they wanted to fly a full size one. I consulted the guru (Steve) who said "Flew a full-size jacket once; never again", so on that basis I refused
[08:59] <gonzo_> (Though why destroy something you have paid K for?)
[08:59] <fsphil> wedding dress makers idea probably
[08:59] <daveake> The mini one was really well made
[08:59] <eroomde> i'm waiting for MikeB to be interested in stuart's offer of PCBs to diy enthusiasts
[08:59] <gonzo_> what did the dressmaker say when asked to make a tiny one?
[08:59] <daveake> "That'll be £200 please"
[08:59] <daveake> probably
[09:00] <daveake> (dressmake wasn't the customer)
[09:00] <gonzo_> hehe, yep
[09:00] <daveake> Ah, a Stuart email. 2nd line always starts with "I"
[09:00] <AndyEsser> "if you think HAB time is slow, you should try waiting for make-up&."
[09:00] <R34lB0rg> we should add "New Yorker" to the possible list of sponsors for future flights
[09:00] <daveake> you are so right
[09:01] <daveake> lots of time wasted
[09:01] <daveake> " to upload via a PC into Habitat"
[09:02] <daveake> missing the point there somewhat
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[09:05] <gonzo_> The hair person, that is quite an impressing double chin. It goes all around the face!
[09:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-N1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-N1
[09:22] <Vaizki> hair person.. donald trump.. send him up. someone would pay for that.
[09:22] <daveake> yeah but he'd come down
[09:22] <AndyEsser> not if the payload explodes....
[09:23] <Vaizki> although.. the US already tried a black president, why not try an orange one then.. :)
[09:23] <tweetBot> @daveake: Useful comparison of some available SDRs. #ukhas https://t.co/DFbHrIAQHr
[09:24] <gonzo_> possibly they ahve already tried launching him. No need for a balloon
[09:24] <gonzo_> they just stuck the H2 fill in direct
[09:25] <fsphil> maybe it's like the star trek films, every other one is terrible
[09:25] <AndyEsser> I've enjoyed both of the new Star Treks :)
[09:26] <fsphil> was not a fan of the last one
[09:26] <fsphil> terribly lazy writing
[09:26] <AndyEsser> but... but SPLOSIONS!!
[09:26] <AndyEsser> :)
[09:28] <Vaizki> daveake, nice link on the SDRs indeed, have not seen such a comprehensive overview in one piece
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[09:31] <fsphil> "75 MHz Police" ... bobbies on the beat frequency
[09:33] <fsphil> they don't mention the lack of open source support for sdrplay. though probably not a priority for them
[09:46] <Vaizki> as a radio noob I agree and having read that page half way through I tend to agree on the VHF/UHF part in Airspy vs RSP.. Airspy is more noob friendly and easy to surf anywhere on the band and expect good results straight away, the RSP can give very good results but often needs HAM-skills I don't possess so I end up trying all the knobs like trying to fly a UFO .. :)
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[09:56] <gonzo_> does 75MHz need policing?
[09:57] <SA6BSS-Mike> Vaizki: there is realy just two settings in rsp, lna on/off and a mather of gr -60 - -75 in 5 db steps is all there is to it
[09:58] <SA6BSS-Mike> very interesting read nonetheless
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[10:16] <Vaizki> SA6BSS-Mike, well there is ZIF vs LIF and bandwidths etc.. :)
[10:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> :)
[10:17] <Vaizki> and the AGC worked weird for me when I tried it.. it was really aggressive in pushing gain up
[10:18] <Vaizki> anyway, I need to update all my sdr#, plugins, extios what not and try again..
[10:30] <AndyEsser> is a cut-down worth it to avoid the balloon forming a parachute?
[10:30] <AndyEsser> (I'm noticing a theme with some of daveake's launches)
[10:31] <daveake> That was Upu's
[10:31] <AndyEsser> Hmm, you've mentioned it a couple times earlier though (not full on parachute, but at least slowing the descent more than desired)
[10:31] <eroomde> most people fly successfully without
[10:32] <Darkside> its often not a big deal
[10:32] <eroomde> but a good post-burst cutdown would be a good thing
[10:32] <AndyEsser> fair enough
[10:32] <Darkside> (that said every big flight i've done for the last 4 years has had a radio controlled cutdown on it)
[10:32] <eroomde> we have flown such in the past
[10:32] <daveake> It's rare it'll slow down the descent; sometimes it can tangle round the parachute and increase the rate
[10:32] <eroomde> 'we' being cusf which i'm not really a part of anymore
[10:32] <Darkside> leave plenty of string between the parachute and the balloon neck
[10:32] <AndyEsser> I might investigate a cut-down then
[10:32] <R34lB0rg> has someone tried using two balloons? one to burst and one to slow the descent?
[10:32] <eroomde> the explosive link jobbies are good imo
[10:33] <AndyEsser> eroomde: just apply a current and poof~?
[10:33] <Darkside> eroomde: and supposedly legal here!
[10:33] <eroomde> if you want pyro+legal then pyrotechnic protractors are the way to go
[10:33] Action: AndyEsser googles Pyrotechnic Protractor...
[10:33] <AndyEsser> first item, CUSF
[10:33] <AndyEsser> second item CUSF
[10:34] <AndyEsser> third item Ed Moore
[10:34] <AndyEsser> ffs
[10:34] <AndyEsser> :P
[10:34] <AndyEsser> stop being everywhere
[10:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-N2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-N2
[10:34] <R34lB0rg> use a nitrocellulose rope for the payload ;)
[10:35] <fsphil> nobody's tried squirrels yet
[10:36] <daveake> hamsters are lighter
[10:36] <R34lB0rg> tracking a hab over ip over RFC1149 avian carrier
[10:37] <fsphil> I've lost a box of rfm modules. I keep doing this
[10:37] <R34lB0rg> never underestimate the bandwith of a sd card on a pigeon
[10:37] <craag> should put gpses on them fsphil ;)
[10:37] <fsphil> I lost a gps module for a year once
[10:38] <fsphil> was in one of upu's stealthy black boxes
[10:38] <daveake> It was a lassen and it took that long to get a lock ?
[10:38] <fsphil> hah
[10:38] <mfa298> should stick and rfm on it then so you can hear where it is
[10:38] <eroomde> AndyEsser: i can't help it
[10:38] <eroomde> i like food
[10:39] <AndyEsser> lol
[10:39] <fsphil> I need some kind of electronic storage system, just ask the computer to bring me something and a little quad copter flies off into the spare room and comes back a few minutes later with a box
[10:40] <Vaizki> I use ebay for that
[10:40] <Vaizki> ok so it takes a bit longer but...
[10:40] <fsphil> yeah I'll end up ordering more
[10:41] <AndyEsser> Amazon are trialling 1hr delivery in some UK cities
[10:42] <Vaizki> they did free delivery to Finland for orders over £20.. and then stopped it after 2 years or so
[10:42] <Vaizki> I was and am gutted :(
[10:42] <fsphil> they still do free delivery here, but it might take a week
[10:42] <AndyEsser> Upu: o god... watching your video of the balloon burst on the Pi launch...
[10:42] <AndyEsser> the comments...
[10:42] <AndyEsser> why did I read the comments...
[10:42] <Upu> yes
[10:42] <fsphil> nooooo don't read youtube comments
[10:42] <Vaizki> I don't care if it takes a week
[10:42] <eroomde> don't read the comments
[10:42] <Upu> the I did delete quite a few
[10:42] <daveake> linky?
[10:43] <daveake> (or should I avoid ... :-) )
[10:43] <AndyEsser> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGLB9-LdpYM&feature=youtu.be
[10:43] <daveake> "curved when it's really flat" lol
[10:43] <mfa298> I found the solution for at least some components is live near a RS depot, If they have it you can order, drive over and collect. If not order and collect first thing the next morning
[10:44] <AndyEsser> there are actually people who genuinely believe the earth is flat....
[10:45] <eroomde> yes
[10:45] <eroomde> but we don't discus it here because it's boring
[10:45] <AndyEsser> sorry
[10:45] <AndyEsser> lovely weather outside...
[10:45] <eroomde> the internet is 70% cretins and morons and idiots and the confused. That's not news, and we don't have to discus it
[10:46] <AndyEsser> I've said sorry and have dropped it
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/WSFqhdb - sort of balloony.
[10:48] <fsphil> meh, he can just watch the tv show and write about that
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[11:01] <AndyEsser> http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/P1040684-e1343732118859-682x1024.jpg
[11:01] <AndyEsser> daveake: nice set up :P
[11:02] <daveake> That's old, and gone
[11:02] <AndyEsser> I'm still working my way through the blog posts :P
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[11:18] <Vaizki> 4 antennas? funcube, vhf handheld, 3G hotspot and what else?
[11:19] <AndyEsser> FM radio for the choons
[11:19] <AndyEsser> :P
[11:20] <Vaizki> I didn't count the fixed mount :)
[11:20] <AndyEsser> I was being facetious anyway
[11:21] <Vaizki> I had to google facetious :(
[11:21] <eroomde> it's the only word in the english language which has all of the vowels, once, in alphabetical order
[11:21] <AndyEsser> I never knew that
[11:21] <AndyEsser> interesting factoid of the day
[11:22] <AndyEsser> eroomde: you must be so much fun at parties ;)
[11:22] <Vaizki> or trivial pursuit...
[11:22] <R34lB0rg> I wonder how eroomde would react to a conspiracy nut at a party
[11:23] <AndyEsser> punch to the face I imagine
[11:23] <R34lB0rg> on irc you can ignore them, on youtube you can avoid them, but what would you do if one becomes president of your country?
[11:23] <eroomde> it's the kindest thing to do
[11:24] <eroomde> thankfully i am rarely at parties where there are such people
[11:25] <eroomde> my country doesn't have presidents
[11:25] <eroomde> so we're ok
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[11:27] <Laurenceb> <R34lB0rg> I wonder how eroomde would react to a conspiracy nut at a party
[11:27] <R34lB0rg> members of the royal familiy probably get education good enough not to fall for such nonsense
[11:27] <Laurenceb> speak for yourself
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[11:27] <eroomde> i'm not sure they do R34lB0rg but they're not presidents so it doesn't really matter
[11:28] <eroomde> i'm not that bothered about what prince charles thinking about nanotechnology
[11:28] <gonzo_> they prob just get educated to not oput their foot in it and say anything. (apart from Phill the Greek, who is a star.)
[11:28] <gonzo_> just don't show him a fusebox
[11:29] <R34lB0rg> they get educated to get educated before opening their mouth
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[12:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BARC after 0319 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BARC
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[12:06] <fsphil> BARC from the dead
[12:07] <AndyEsser> get out
[12:07] <AndyEsser> ¬¬
[12:07] Action: fsphil gets his coat
[12:10] <daveake> barc to the future
[12:11] <fsphil> BARC in the HABit
[12:12] <AndyEsser> There and BARC again: A HABbers Tale
[12:12] <fsphil> BARC once again for the renegade launchers
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[12:29] <Ben-AstroSoc> is it worth getting the payload to convert gps long/lat strings from deg/min/sec to decimal?
[12:30] <gonzo_> can habhub take D/M/S ?
[12:30] <Ben-AstroSoc> not sure, i think just degrees
[12:30] <Ben-AstroSoc> decimal*
[12:31] <craag> habitat will do d m s
[12:31] <gonzo_> I thib k it will take deg MIN.min
[12:31] <Ben-AstroSoc> i need to c heck what format i get out hang on
[12:31] <gonzo_> I'd suggest doing as little manupulation in the air as possib;e
[12:31] <craag> ^^ +1
[12:32] <craag> you can always hotfix the payload doc if you really really need to
[12:32] <craag> you cn't hotifx the paylaod code
[12:33] <Ben-AstroSoc> we're getting an output of deg/min.min
[12:33] <gonzo_> that is the NMEA I assume?
[12:33] <Ben-AstroSoc> ye
[12:33] <gonzo_> my way is to extract the comma delimited fields from the NMEA and copy those directly into the rtty
[12:34] <Ben-AstroSoc> my parser doesn't convert to int so i want to make sure if i can use that output or if i ave to rewrite my parser to get decimals
[12:34] <mattbrejza> i would just string copy
[12:34] <mattbrejza> (did we have this discussion previously or was that someone else..)
[12:34] <gonzo_> so if anything idd happens, leading zero's/padding/sf's, then the whole field comes down nand you can try and do someting with it on the ground
[12:35] <gonzo_> probably had this conv numerous times
[12:36] <Ben-AstroSoc> as long as habhub is ok with the nmea format thats fine
[12:36] <mfa298> I think the only benefit you get by converting to dd.ddddd is dl-fldigi will show range/direction/elevation values for you, but that's only useful if dl-fldigi knows where it is (i.e. stationary tracker) not so useful if you're moving
[12:36] <gonzo_> as craag says, you can post process/hotfix on the ground, even after launch
[12:36] <gonzo_> does fldigi cals that bearing/range on the rtty, or from a return from habhub?
[12:36] <fsphil> rtty
[12:37] <gonzo_> I didn't realise that. Ta
[12:37] <mfa298> and in most cases the benefits of not doing the conversion probably outweigh the benefit of doign the conversion.
[12:37] <gonzo_> so the flight dock info does more than just set the rtty params.
[12:37] <fsphil> I prefer decimal, but the conversion process has many traps
[12:37] <gonzo_> nice
[12:37] <db_G6GZH> I think you still need to map N/S/E/W to +/- for habitat
[12:38] <db_G6GZH> well, insert '-' as needed
[12:38] <gonzo_> I believe so. I did, but that is a pretty simple conversion
[12:38] <db_G6GZH> yes
[12:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> as long as not converting is managable thats fine
[12:39] <fsphil> there's no good reason for the ddmm.mmmm format. nmea where stupid for using it
[12:39] <gonzo_> some legacy yachty reason?
[12:40] <fsphil> likely
[12:40] <fsphil> an early bad choice they've been forced to stick with
[12:40] <mfa298> may well go back to Loran and/or how charts are labelled.
[12:41] <gonzo_> a string type copy and manupulate the - onto it is about as simple as it will get
[12:41] <fsphil> at least the units are metric
[12:41] <gonzo_> even if the - failed, you can still manually fix the data on the ground
[12:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> the default frequency on the ntx2b (434.400MHz in my case) is the frequency with 0v applied to the Tx pin right?
[12:43] <db_G6GZH> I tested that by circling round 0,0 using an NMEA simulator
[12:43] <fsphil> dunno, but I would expect 434.400 to be the centre frequency
[12:43] <Ben-AstroSoc> 434.300*
[12:43] <fsphil> or that
[12:43] <fsphil> it's probably not going to be that accurate anyway
[12:44] <Ben-AstroSoc> suppose
[12:44] <Ben-AstroSoc> trying to work out what value i shoudl be using for the payload doc
[12:44] <fsphil> just publish the frequency you've set, as long as it's within a few khz of that people will find it
[12:44] <Ben-AstroSoc> oki
[12:44] <fsphil> once one person is receiving it here, they'll usually share the frequency. or use the bot
[12:44] <fsphil> !freq BARC
[12:45] <fsphil> which naturally isn't working now
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[12:46] <mfa298> plenty of people use SDRs now so as long as it's within a few khz they should see it appear.
[12:46] <Ben-AstroSoc> just making sur ei understand where it'll be centred to once we bias the Tx pin
[12:47] <mfa298> !dial BARC
[12:47] <SpacenearUS> 03mfa298: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[12:47] <fsphil> oh, dial not freq
[12:47] <mfa298> fsphil: I think that's the one you wanted
[12:49] <gonzo_> even if you set the centr of the data to exactly .400, there is some offset to do with the mark/spave never being at zero offset, and most people tend to give a dial freq
[12:49] <gonzo_> so withing a few kHz is as good as you will get
[12:50] <gonzo_> (+- rx cal too)
[12:50] <Ben-AstroSoc> so would the centre we end up be ~specified centre + (2000*Vbias) on the Tx ping?
[12:50] <Ben-AstroSoc> pin*
[12:51] <gonzo_> easiest is to just build it, measure it and update the flight doc to match
[12:51] <Ben-AstroSoc> righto
[12:51] <Ben-AstroSoc> we're starting breadboarding today but our antenna + radio is in the hands of the mailman
[12:52] <gonzo_> adjusting the keying shift is more important
[12:52] <Ben-AstroSoc> i think we already got as close as possible t o 425Hz shift
[12:53] <gonzo_> as long as it's roughly in that range, that's fine
[12:54] <Ben-AstroSoc> a'ight, thanks
[12:54] <gonzo_> the shifts on ntx2 type flights never match the flight doc. You always have to tweak the fldigi a bit
[12:54] <mfa298> for the flight/payload doc it probably makes sense to round to the nearest 10/12.5 khz
[12:55] <Ben-AstroSoc> will do
[12:55] <mfa298> these days rounding to the nearest 10khz probably makes more sense. (12.5khz is what a lot of amateur rigs could have as a step size)
[12:58] <fsphil> not on USB
[12:58] <fsphil> SSB*
[13:01] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: you're using a Ublox GPS right?
[13:02] <Ben-AstroSoc> yep
[13:02] <AndyEsser> habitat will take the format it provides straight off - no need to convert
[13:02] <AndyEsser> only thing you might need to be wary of is appending the correct N/S and E/W letter to the coords
[13:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> i havent gotten to writing the output stringn yet but i parsed the NSEW coords out so i have them when i need the
[13:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> them
[13:03] <AndyEsser> internally I have the N/S and E/W as a bool in a datastruct so when making the RTTY string I just do a (if_N ? 'N' : 'S') type horrible-ness
[13:04] <Ben-AstroSoc> right
[13:04] <AndyEsser> left
[13:05] <AndyEsser> or rather, W/E :P
[13:05] Action: AndyEsser is funny
[13:05] <Ben-AstroSoc> finishing writing the rtty code atm then gonn alook at the output format later on
[13:05] <Ben-AstroSoc> :p
[13:05] <AndyEsser> but not as funny as fsphil pretends to be
[13:06] <Ben-AstroSoc> was there a reason people use 20150us for 50 baud instead of 20000us?
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[13:08] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: where have you seen that?
[13:09] <Ben-AstroSoc> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=627 was looking at this for the checksum stuff and noticed it
[13:09] <daveake> That's the dark side of program delays
[13:09] <AndyEsser> if it's the code I think
[13:09] <AndyEsser> it's because it uses software delays
[13:09] <AndyEsser> which aren't massively accurate
[13:09] <daveake> Use timers
[13:10] <Ben-AstroSoc> we are using timers
[13:10] <Ben-AstroSoc> was just wondering if there was some dark reason not to use the exact spacing
[13:11] <daveake> probably "it made it work"
[13:12] <AndyEsser> ^
[13:12] <AndyEsser> number one reason for weird code :P
[13:17] <mfa298> fsphil: I think the FT817 and TS2000 would still jump in 12.5/25khz steps if you use the channel knob rather than the tuning dial.
[13:27] <fsphil> my 817 would do 1khz steps with the knob on the left. been a while since I used it
[13:28] <fsphil> I think the last time it was on was at ukhas 2015
[13:36] <gonzo_> you can set the steps per mode in the menu for all the 8x7 series radios
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[13:40] <fsphil> indeed
[13:47] <gonzo_> the sw seems to be the same on that range (ok, not the 847) which makes it easy to switch between them
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[13:51] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI868 after 0315 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI868
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[15:03] <eroomde> http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/MCP2221
[15:03] <eroomde> so you can avoid ftdi
[15:04] <eroomde> looks good
[15:07] <Geoff-G8DHE_> It does rather!
[15:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> technician has me building our datastring into a struct to transmit each bit as the timer interrupt fires
[15:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> to the whiteboard
[15:09] <AndyEsser> eroomde: o0o shiny
[15:10] <mattbrejza> no crystal either
[15:10] <AndyEsser> yea that was the big bonus for me :)
[15:10] <mattbrejza> i suspect this is just a PIC micro preprogrammed as a serial bridge?
[15:12] <craag> yes that's the one
[15:12] <eroomde> it is
[15:12] <craag> so you also get i2c, adc and stuff on the side
[15:12] <mattbrejza> probably why they have a DIP version too
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[15:17] <fsphil> Ben-AstroSoc: easier just to build the string in one go
[15:20] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah i've never used a struct so what i've got currently is a loop with an index for datastring character and an index for bitposition in that character
[15:20] <Ben-AstroSoc> then i;m just cycling thorugh it
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[15:28] <Ben-AstroSoc> ok i thnk i've got this worked out
[15:29] <Ben-AstroSoc> as soon as it transmits the last bit it calls a function to build the next datastring from the latest data
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[15:35] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: what are the data-types of your struct?
[15:36] <Ben-AstroSoc> it'd just be int/char
[15:36] <fab4space> daveake, nice update for the tracker :)
[15:36] <eroomde> struct i reckon
[15:36] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: you could just iterate over each byte of the struct up to sizeof(STRUCT_NAME)
[15:37] <fab4space> fast ssdv for tomorrow flight?
[15:38] <daveake> that flight was today, and I cancelled
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[15:40] <Ben-AstroSoc> would't the declaration of the struct be huge though? if you need int char int int for each character of the datastring
[15:40] <Ben-AstroSoc> or do i have the wrong end of the stick
[15:43] <AndyEsser> It depends how you'd use the struct
[15:44] <AndyEsser> I have a global struct that holds the last received set of data from the Ublox, so is updated at 1Hz unless there is a problem with the i2c link
[15:44] <AndyEsser> but then I use vsprintf() to take the data from the struct and output a char array which is what I then send over RTTY
[15:44] <AndyEsser> at the end of day - it's whatever you feel most comfortable with
[15:44] <AndyEsser> it has to work, and doing something you're not familiar with is going to lead to bugs that means your tracker fails :)
[15:47] <Ben-AstroSoc> i just have a block of ~10 variables which hold all my parsed data
[15:47] <Ben-AstroSoc> i'm sure theres more efficient ways of doing it but i'm a c noob
[15:47] <AndyEsser> which is the same as having a struct with 10 members in it :)
[15:47] <AndyEsser> from a memory POV they take up the same :)
[15:47] <AndyEsser> it's just ease of reading/using them :)
[15:47] <AndyEsser> stick with what you have :)
[15:48] <Ben-AstroSoc> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/U0sQyM22/IMG_0965.JPG
[15:48] <Ben-AstroSoc> Oh wrong pic
[15:48] <Ben-AstroSoc> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/udrnFPxc/IMG_0964.JPG
[15:48] <Kryczek> Hi! I missed the beginning of the conversation but I'd like to say about transmitting struct's: beware that they are likely to be aligned differently on the sender and receiver, unless you declare it with __attribute__((packed));
[15:48] <Ben-AstroSoc> I've flow charted it and what I've drawn works I think
[15:49] <AndyEsser> Kryczek: 1) #pragma pack(1) is your friend in that case ;)
[15:49] <Kryczek> for example a struct { uint8_t x; uint32_t y } is not 5 bytes: it might be 8 on a 32bit system and 12 on a 64bit system if y is aligned on a boundary
[15:50] <AndyEsser> 2) it's not being received as a struct, just a normal RTTY string into dl-fldigi
[15:50] <Kryczek> AndyEsser: I guess that is the equivalent in another compiler :) __attribute__((packed)) is GCC
[15:50] <AndyEsser> gcc understands #pragma pack(1) but it appears similar ;)
[15:50] <AndyEsser> additionally, always try to align your structs on 32-bit boundaries if possible :)
[15:50] <Kryczek> ah, good to know! thanks
[15:50] <AndyEsser> but the 32-bit boundary alignment is more to do with CPU cache lines rather than transmission :)
[15:51] <Kryczek> ah yes nothing to do with transmission
[15:51] <AndyEsser> since 'best practice' would be to use fixed width int's and whatnot if you were say sending data over the network
[15:51] <Kryczek> I meant maybe you are transmitting between two different architectures
[15:51] <Kryczek> speaking of which, watch out for endianness too
[15:51] <AndyEsser> Hehe yep
[15:52] <AndyEsser> something I didn't check when I first ran my RTTY test, but it appears my avr328p has the endianness that dl-fldigi is expecting :)
[15:52] <AndyEsser> so promptly disgarded any concern about it :)
[15:52] Action: AndyEsser falls foul perhaps when he firsts uses an STM32 or similar
[15:52] <AndyEsser> no idea on the endianess of them
[15:53] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: apologies... got caught up discussing Big and Little Endian with Kryczek :P
[15:54] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: why does j go to 10? to include the stop bits?
[15:54] <Kryczek> AndyEsser: so which way do you recommend to sit a soft-boiled egg?
[15:54] <AndyEsser> fat end down
[15:54] <chris_99> you could convert to network byte order using C functions btw, wrt transmitting integers
[15:55] <AndyEsser> You could....
[15:55] <AndyEsser> but if your CPU matches what the dl-fldigi expects... why bother?
[15:55] <fsphil> if you're only sending bytes then endianness won't matter
[15:55] <fsphil> rtty is the same everywhere
[15:56] <daveake> It's a string of bytes; no need to look at it as a struct or worry about big/little endiness
[15:56] <Kryczek> AndyEsser: you could negotiate the endianness at the beginning :)
[15:56] <AndyEsser> really?
[15:56] <chris_99> oh i thought you where talking about sending an integer
[15:56] <AndyEsser> if I have a little-endian A and a big-endian A
[15:56] <AndyEsser> they are not the same over RTTY
[15:56] <daveake> RTTY is low bit first the end
[15:57] <daveake> low bit of a byte doesn't suddenly become the high bit if the CPU is big/little endian
[15:57] <fsphil> CPU's don't really have byte endianness
[15:57] Action: AndyEsser ponders
[15:57] <daveake> quite
[15:57] <AndyEsser> hmm I suppose bit 0 in a big endian or little endian system is all relative :P
[15:57] <fsphil> it's only when you get to multi-byte ints that the fun begins
[15:57] <AndyEsser> apologies! :)
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[15:57] Action: AndyEsser goes and commits sepuku
[15:59] <fsphil> harsh but fair
[15:59] <Ben-AstroSoc> oh i need ot buy an sma socket for the board too
[15:59] Action: Ben-AstroSoc adds to list
[16:02] <AndyEsser> god damnit Vulkan
[16:03] <AndyEsser> why would you release when I have other work to do!
[16:03] <fab4space> oh yes daveake I forgot we were tuesday !
[16:03] <fab4space> when do you plan to do this flgith again?
[16:03] <daveake> whenever the weather is good for the flight
[16:04] <fab4space> easier to postpone the flight in uk than in France :)
[16:07] <fsphil> more reasons to too
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[16:13] <eroomde> dunno
[16:13] <eroomde> in france there is better bread and wine
[16:13] <eroomde> and i have frequently postponed things to have bread and wine
[16:13] <fab4space> lol eroomde :)
[16:16] <Ben-AstroSoc> ok i think we got the fuse bits sorted
[16:17] <AndyEsser> \o/
[16:17] <AndyEsser> what have you gone for?
[16:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> just trying to get the programmer to connect to our board
[16:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> apparently something is shorted
[16:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> well the boards we'd used in the lab were using an external 20MHz oscillator so we used the same settings
[16:17] <eroomde> fuses protect against shorts
[16:17] <AndyEsser> eroomde: amusing
[16:17] <AndyEsser> :P
[16:17] <eroomde> no
[16:18] <eroomde> fact
[16:18] <AndyEsser> facts can't be amusing?
[16:18] <eroomde> no
[16:18] <eroomde> maybe
[16:20] <AndyEsser> I really need to start enabling the EESAVE fusebit
[16:20] <Ben-AstroSoc> apparently MOSI and SCK lines are shorting and so the programmer won'tengage
[16:21] <Ben-AstroSoc> wut
[16:21] <eroomde> that would be bad
[16:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> i think the guy who soldered the programmer plug-breakout got it backwards
[16:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> lul
[16:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> or not
[16:23] <Ben-AstroSoc> nope, he did
[16:25] <Ben-AstroSoc> what avr IDE do you guys use? I can't get avr studio 4 to install on my laptop :/
[16:25] <adamgreig> a text editor and a makefile
[16:25] <adamgreig> IDEs are for the lazy :p
[16:26] <eroomde> true for all x
[16:28] <adamgreig> admittedly sometimes I use other build systems than make
[16:28] <adamgreig> cargo is so nice
[16:28] <adamgreig> rust is so nice.
[16:29] <Ben-AstroSoc> programmer now connected; 'signature does not match selected device'
[16:29] <Ben-AstroSoc> hm
[16:30] <eroomde> check your makefile
[16:30] <eroomde> or that you have the right thing in avrstudio
[16:30] <eroomde> the p suffix matters etc
[16:30] <adamgreig> what signature did you get
[16:30] <adamgreig> if it's all 0x0000 you ahve other issues
[16:31] <Ben-AstroSoc> 0x1E 0x95 0x14 if it helps
[16:32] <adamgreig> looks reasonable. what was it expecting?
[16:32] <Ben-AstroSoc> no idea
[16:32] <eroomde> 6 pcbs in the toaster oven
[16:32] <eroomde> back hurts
[16:33] <eroomde> also the first round of stuff (about 60 boards) for the assembly house have come back
[16:33] <eroomde> i am converted now
[16:33] <Ben-AstroSoc> apparently it lets us program the fuse bits ok but clicking 'read signature' throws a warning
[16:33] <adamgreig> sounds nice
[16:34] <adamgreig> did you see the vapor phase reflow oven for like 500 eur that was on here?
[16:34] <AndyEsser> eroomde: how much more expensive for assembly?
[16:34] <AndyEsser> and who did you go with?
[16:34] <adamgreig> http://www.imdes.de/condens_uk/condens_uk_pdf/mini-condens_it_price_list_uk_exhibition_21_06_2015.pdf
[16:34] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: I've had the signature report bad a few times - but after a couple of attempts it goes away
[16:34] <adamgreig> eep
[16:34] <adamgreig> that sounds more like a really bad connection to your programmer
[16:34] <AndyEsser> ^
[16:35] <AndyEsser> this is what I suspected - hence just bashing away at it :)
[16:35] <AndyEsser> I need to work on a proper connector between ISP and breadboard
[16:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> whut
[16:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> so
[16:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> the signature matches the 328 bu tnot the 328P
[16:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> we ordered 328P
[16:35] <AndyEsser> what does it say on the chip itself?
[16:36] <Ben-AstroSoc> ATmega328-PU
[16:36] <Ben-AstroSoc> huh
[16:36] <Ben-AstroSoc> that explains it
[16:37] <eroomde> AndyEsser: an amount
[16:37] <eroomde> PSL
[16:37] <AndyEsser> Printsys?
[16:38] <eroomde> yes
[16:38] <eroomde> Ben-AstroSoc: 16:30:18 eroomde the p suffix matters etc
[16:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> we've set fuse bits to ext. crystal osc 8.0- MHz startup time PWRDWN/RESET: 16K CK/14 CK + 0ms
[16:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> should wokr i think
[16:38] <eroomde> it's almost like we've all been here before :p
[16:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> i thought we had the 328p :p
[16:38] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: what are the bits you're actually setting? (ie the values)
[16:39] <eroomde> and yes atmega328p != atmega328-PU
[16:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> don't know the exact value, IDE handles it
[16:39] <AndyEsser> hmm kk
[16:39] <eroomde> the atmega328p-pu is what you want
[16:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> thats what i thought we'd ordered
[16:39] <eroomde> i agree it could be clearer
[16:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> what's the difference?
[16:40] <eroomde> AndyEsser: it'd probably not be worth it for singles
[16:40] <eroomde> well, almost certainly not
[16:40] <eroomde> but we were ordering ~100pcbs
[16:40] <eroomde> and i can't be arsed to p+p that many
[16:40] <eroomde> i'd sooner quite probably
[16:40] <eroomde> quit*
[16:40] <AndyEsser> fair enough
[16:41] <AndyEsser> was just curious as to price difference
[16:41] <adamgreig> price difference compared to what?
[16:41] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: ordering PCBs from say... DirtyPCB and assembling yourself vs full fab and assembly with someone else
[16:42] <adamgreig> PSL do assembly but not PCB fab
[16:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> apparently the 328p uses less power so lets hope its negligable
[16:42] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: right
[16:42] <AndyEsser> so DirtyPCB + PSL vs just DirtyPCB then :P
[16:42] <Upu> there is around £200 setup/stenciling + machine programming plus cost per board for assembly @ PSL
[16:42] <eroomde> for a batch of 1 it's a silly comparison
[16:43] <eroomde> i wouldn't even think about thinking about it unless you're into the tens
[16:43] <Upu> so sure they will do one but it will cost you about £300 per board
[16:43] <eroomde> for making a hab flight computer it's madness
[16:43] <Upu> l2solder
[16:43] <eroomde> you can put place one in about 20 minutes
[16:43] <AndyEsser> I never said that's what I was using it for
[16:43] <AndyEsser> I was merely curious as to cost
[16:43] <AndyEsser> apologies for asking the question
[16:43] <Upu> ah ok
[16:43] <eroomde> what upu said
[16:43] <Upu> lol
[16:43] <eroomde> it really depends on qty
[16:43] <eroomde> large upfront fixed cost
[16:43] <eroomde> then qtys where they get a team of ladies to hand p+p
[16:44] <eroomde> then qtys where it's worth programming a p+p machine
[16:44] <Upu> I am joking but I generally don't bother with PSL unless I'm doing 100+ in a go
[16:44] <eroomde> then what order of magnitude you are within that latter category
[16:44] <Upu> I use them for PITS, the NTP board I do and the amps I sell
[16:44] <eroomde> the answer really is 'it depends'
[16:44] <Upu> the rest we make in house
[16:44] <eroomde> comparable to the cost of the pcb
[16:44] <eroomde> well more for a chinese 2 layer pcb
[16:44] <AndyEsser> ok, thanks
[16:44] <eroomde> but comparable for an made-in-europe 4-layer pcb
[16:45] <eroomde> when you're flirting with O(100)
[16:45] <eroomde> probably vastly less for O(1000)
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[16:45] <eroomde> they quote
[16:46] <eroomde> you can ask them when you have a design and qty in mind
[16:46] <AndyEsser> k
[16:48] <adamgreig> hand placing is all part of the fun though :P
[16:48] <adamgreig> ...for <10 qty
[16:49] <Ben-AstroSoc> ok board is working but the clock is wrong
[16:49] <Ben-AstroSoc> going way too slowly
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[16:49] <eroomde> 8 times too slowly
[16:49] <AndyEsser> Do you have a DIV8 or something
[16:49] <eroomde> let me guess?
[16:49] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:49] <eroomde> no Lunar_Lander
[16:49] <eroomde> no
[16:50] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[16:50] <Ben-AstroSoc> clock div 8 was apparently ticked
[16:50] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah
[16:50] <AndyEsser> :)
[16:50] <adamgreig> be glad the AVR fuses are rewritable
[16:50] <Ben-AstroSoc> awesome
[16:50] <Ben-AstroSoc> it works
[16:50] <eroomde> huzzah!
[16:50] <eroomde> how much easier was that than buying a PITS when you came on here all those months ago
[16:50] <Ben-AstroSoc> imean
[16:50] <eroomde> (you don't have to answer)
[16:50] <Ben-AstroSoc> much harder :^)
[16:51] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: but _way_ more fun, right?
[16:51] <AndyEsser> :)
[16:51] <Ben-AstroSoc> yep
[16:51] <AndyEsser> :)
[16:52] <Ben-AstroSoc> noice
[16:52] <eroomde> Darkside: that's australian ^
[16:55] <eroomde> this jbc soldering iron really is the dogs bollocks
[16:55] <eroomde> i must say
[16:55] <eroomde> and share
[16:58] Action: AndyEsser considers buying the domain: above-the.cloud....
[16:59] <AndyEsser> :)
[17:02] <eroomde> stuck-in-a
[17:04] <eroomde> but srs, the jbc can just solder a pin connected without thermals to two ground planes
[17:04] <eroomde> it's amazing
[17:04] <eroomde> it's like flying
[17:04] <eroomde> the last 4hrs of p+p efforts https://www.dropbox.com/s/f7wjmgo7ls8frtp/2016-02-16%2017.03.21.jpg?dl=0
[17:05] <eroomde> rest of the pth connectors arriving 2moz
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[17:09] <SM0ULC-Reb> :)
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[17:23] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I don't understand a word you just said :)
[17:27] <eroomde> https://i.imgflip.com/zat96.jpg
[17:28] <AndyEsser> eroomde: was expecting Zat gun from SGC
[17:28] <eroomde> i don;t understand a word you just said
[17:29] <AndyEsser> https://i.imgflip.com/zat96.jpg
[17:29] <AndyEsser> :)
[17:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PISKY - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PISKY
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[17:47] <Laurenceb> whenever anyone says cyber
[17:47] <Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yicGBfo2lio
[17:51] <jarod> http://livestream.com/accounts/362/events/4805473 Sentinel-3A launch
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[17:54] <eroomde> how long jarod
[17:54] <AndyEsser> https://twitter.com/LeadHyperion/status/699652737139658752/photo/1
[17:55] <eroomde> 3 mins
[17:56] <mattbrejza> persumably they could abort beyond 3min should something seriously go wrong...
[17:56] <eroomde> yes
[17:56] <eroomde> it would be a bit silly otherwise
[17:57] <eroomde> what shall we call our rocket, comrade?
[17:57] <eroomde> i know, how about 'rocket'
[17:58] <eroomde> here we go
[17:58] <Laurenceb> ewww
[17:58] <Laurenceb> nasty
[17:58] <eroomde> why?
[17:58] <Laurenceb> toxic fumes
[17:59] <eroomde> you get used to it
[18:00] <eroomde> i love the smell of hydrazine in the morning
[18:00] <Laurenceb> 2nd stage running
[18:01] <Laurenceb> is dat some labview
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[18:08] <eroomde> switched away
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[18:31] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: was it yourself that mentioned the IC for LiPo charging?
[18:31] <AndyEsser> I appear to have lost my notes
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[18:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KE7IGH-13 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KE7IGH-13
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[19:06] <db_G6GZH> re the earlier discussion about NMEA format positions it seems that dl-fldigi does understand them, given an appropriate payload doc - http://stuff.dbrooke.me.uk/sp-s5KD5d.png
[19:11] <craag> I think someone joked that you could register the callsign 'GPGGA' and just put an NTX2 on the gps.
[19:14] <lz1dev> lul
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[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[19:23] <fsphil> lacking a $ sadly
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[19:35] <craag> baudrate might be a bit fun too
[19:35] <Vaizki> yea I think ublox is 2400 minimum
[19:37] <fsphil> easy ;)
[19:37] <Vaizki> but good for easy testing
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[22:31] <Ben-AstroSoc> >farnell charging £16 to ship an SMA connector
[22:32] <Ben-AstroSoc> you what
[22:32] <chris_99> it'll be US stock
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[22:32] <chris_99> probably
[22:33] <lz1dev> hey, envelopes are expensive
[22:33] <chris_99> heh
[22:33] <adamgreig> just always tick "exclude US stock"
[22:34] <Ben-AstroSoc> i think it's this one supplier
[22:34] <Ben-AstroSoc> lemme try that
[22:34] <Ben-AstroSoc> yet youre right
[22:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> yep*
[22:37] <chris_99> oh i didn't know there was a filter for that adamgreig ,cool
[22:37] <adamgreig> i would always tick 'in stock only' too
[22:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> http://uk.farnell.com/johnson/142-0701-301/rf-coaxial-sma-right-angle-jack/dp/2112453 looking at this, i'm assuming 4 outer pins = GND, centre pin = aerial
[22:39] <adamgreig> christ £5.60!
[22:39] <adamgreig> I'm sure it's nice but maybe buy a normal sma connector
[22:40] <adamgreig> i recommend sorting by price too most of the time
[22:40] <Ben-AstroSoc> i mean half of htem are stupid prices
[22:40] <adamgreig> that is why i recommend sorting by price
[22:40] <chris_99> i'm suprised how high frequency those SMA connectors can take :)
[22:41] <Ben-AstroSoc> http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity-greenpar/3-1478978-1/rf-coax-sma-right-angle-jack-50/dp/2468393 £2.04 for the same thing
[22:41] <adamgreig> yea though not in stock until march
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[22:41] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah just noticed
[22:41] Action: Ben-AstroSoc checks 'in stock'
[22:42] <adamgreig> 'in stock' means "stocked" but not always "ready to ship"
[22:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> is there a difference between solder and through hole coaxial termination?
[22:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> they look the same
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[22:42] <adamgreig> sometimes
[22:43] <adamgreig> check the specific part you're looking at without paying too much attention to farnell's categories
[22:43] <adamgreig> solder might mean "you solder a coax cable to it" or "you solder it to the pcb"
[22:43] <adamgreig> whereas through hole pretty much exclusively means "you solder it through the pcb"
[22:43] <Ben-AstroSoc> http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity-amp/5-1814400-1/rf-coaxial-sma-right-angle-jack/dp/1248989 i mean theres 6000 of these in stock
[22:43] <Ben-AstroSoc> that shoiul dbe enough
[22:44] <adamgreig> i should think so
[22:46] <mfa298> through hole may also suggest it's 0.1" pitch, although I wouldn't count on that - that's what datasheets are for.
[22:47] <adamgreig> i definitely wouldn't expect through hole to mean 0.1" pitch
[22:49] <mfa298> suggest meaning slightly over 50% chance of it being true.
[22:49] <adamgreig> awful lot of passives and connectors that are through hole and definitely not .1"
[22:49] <adamgreig> suspect there are more resistors and capacitors than ICs
[22:52] <mattbrejza> wrt SMA connectors, id advise buying a pack of 10 or so from ebay for £1.50
[22:53] <Ben-AstroSoc> ordered a handful
[22:54] <Ben-AstroSoc> do you guys have specific programmer hardware? i mean this is what we have at uni http://cpc.farnell.com/olimex/avr-isp-mk2/usb-programmer-for-8bit-avr-microcontrollers/dp/SC13617?CMP=CPC-PLA
[22:55] <adamgreig> much of a muchness. i use an adafruit USBtinyISP for AVR programming
[22:56] <Ben-AstroSoc> might pick one up if i can find a uk supplier
[22:57] <adamgreig> ebay has loads of various
[22:57] <adamgreig> avrstick and stuff idk
[22:57] <adamgreig> they're all basically the same
[22:57] <adamgreig> ebay "avr programmer" will probably give you change from a pint
[22:57] <adamgreig> in cambridge pints anyway
[22:57] <Ben-AstroSoc> how do brum pints compare to average uk pints
[22:58] <adamgreig> here i don't even really notice 3.50 for a pint but 4 seems a bit steep
[22:58] <adamgreig> does depend a bit on what
[22:58] <Ben-AstroSoc> depends what pub more here i think
[22:58] <adamgreig> but indeed, ther eare USB programmers on ebay for £3.50 with free postage
[22:59] <adamgreig> down to £1.30 if you buy from china
[22:59] <Ben-AstroSoc> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USBASP-USBISP-ISP-Programmer-Cable-Adapter-KK2-0-KK2-1-Atmel-AVR-ATMega-ARDUINO-/131241223483?var=&hash=item1e8e96253b:m:my5ajIyIlNHKV-vZffc0xBg job's a goodun
[23:00] <mfa298> I think some people have had occasional issues with the cheaper ISP programmers, I've only used the atmel one so can't really comment (and you definetly not in the change from a pint teritry)
[23:00] <adamgreig> they're really really simple. there's not much to muck up.
[23:00] <adamgreig> super duper cheap manufacture or just actually broken parts is the biggest risk I guess
[23:00] <adamgreig> certainly if you had someone else's money the atmel ones are 'nicer'
[23:01] <adamgreig> come with a case and all
[23:01] <adamgreig> get an avr dragon and you can even debug (?!)
[23:01] <Ben-AstroSoc> eh, i cant put everything through the tech
[23:01] <Ben-AstroSoc> i think we have a spare one in the elec soc's cupboard btu ideally i'd like to keep it so
[23:01] <adamgreig> wise
[23:03] <mfa298> I'd probably get a cheap one to use if you've got access to a better one if there are occasional issues.
[23:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah
[23:05] <Ben-AstroSoc> here on thusday
[23:05] <Ben-AstroSoc> sorted
[23:06] <mfa298> I should possibly consider getting a cheap programmer, saves worring about blowing it up if you get something wrong and/or damaging/losing it by chucking in a bag.
[23:06] <adamgreig> or make one
[23:06] <adamgreig> i mean, cheaper to buy one for ones
[23:06] <adamgreig> i made up like six of the ARM programmer I use
[23:07] <adamgreig> it's nice
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[23:14] <Ben-AstroSoc> probably could build one if i had some spare time
[23:14] <Ben-AstroSoc> maybe if i clear my workload tomororw i'll deisgn something in the afternoon
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[23:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> up at 5 so i'm off. thx for help!
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[23:21] <DL7AD> thomas and i are going to launch a balloon today (pecanpico6) and our pecanpico7 module is watching it by ssdv
[23:21] <DL7AD> the aprs call will be DL7AD-11
[23:22] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: Golden Hind on Milton Road has pints for £3
[23:22] <AndyEsser> :)
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[23:23] <AndyEsser> mfa298: I have a 'micro programmer' that I bought for like £8 - haven't taken it out the box yet, but easy enough to just throw into the toolkit to use when in the field or whatever if needs be
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)
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[00:00] --- Wed Feb 17 2016