highaltitude.log.20160215

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[06:19] <SM0ULC-Reb> morrn
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[07:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-11 after 0318 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
[07:26] Nick change: mdk_ -> Past
[07:38] <AndyEsser> morning
[07:39] Nick change: Past -> Present
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[07:42] Nick change: Present -> T-Eagle
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[07:45] <Upu> morning
[07:47] <AndyEsser> o/
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[08:04] <R34lB0rg> good morning people
[08:09] <fsphil> monday. let's do this
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[08:15] <AndyEsser> eurgh
[08:24] <daveake> arggh
[08:24] <AndyEsser> aarggh
[08:29] <fl_0> hi @ll
[08:42] <AndyEsser> daveake: liked your justification for cancelling the flight
[08:42] <AndyEsser> "Brr"
[08:42] <daveake> :-). Too true ... not freezing my aerial mount nuts off for that
[08:42] <AndyEsser> hahaha
[08:42] <AndyEsser> that's not an image I needed...
[08:42] <daveake> Fine if there was a good reason for flying, but it can happily wait
[08:47] <pb0ahx_> !flights
[08:47] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx_: Current flights: 03hkSOL1 10(5c13)
[08:48] <pb0ahx_> GM all
[08:52] <fsphil> will give me time to find my radio
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[09:03] <AndyEsser> daveake: is there anywhere on your site that just lists all the blog articles?
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[09:05] <daveake> AndyEsser Just now added that for you :)
[09:06] <daveake> Open the main page and scroll to the bottom
[09:06] <AndyEsser> :)
[09:06] <AndyEsser> ta muchly
[09:06] <AndyEsser> damnit... really wanting to do a launch
[09:07] <AndyEsser> still so much to do
[09:07] <AndyEsser> not enough time
[09:07] <AndyEsser> :(
[09:07] <AndyEsser> started drawing out the circuit diagram for the whole thing on Pigeon last night
[09:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> i've never heard of pigeon
[09:08] <AndyEsser> It's my whiteboard ;)
[09:08] <AndyEsser> supposed to be a pun... Eagle being the actual software
[09:08] <Ben-AstroSoc> oooh
[09:08] <AndyEsser> pigeon being the shitty equivalent
[09:08] <AndyEsser> :P
[09:08] <Ben-AstroSoc> see we use Proteus/ARES so the eagle joke went over m head
[09:08] <AndyEsser> (I did try to make a pun on KiCAD but failed)
[09:08] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: aww man
[09:08] <AndyEsser> I wish I still has ARES and ISIS
[09:08] <AndyEsser> I spent ages getting to know those tools
[09:08] <Ben-AstroSoc> we cantcall it ISIS now
[09:08] <AndyEsser> I'm sure I have the disk _somewhere_ in my house
[09:09] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: tsk tsk
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[09:09] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[09:09] <Ben-AstroSoc> we gget an annual student license :3
[09:11] <adamgreig> use kicad, get a lifetime licence
[09:11] <adamgreig> :P
[09:12] <Ben-AstroSoc> andy you getting this?
[09:12] <Ben-AstroSoc> http://imgur.com/4pzO4Ce
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[09:17] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: will be attemping my PCB layout in KiCad when I finish drawing it up
[09:17] <AndyEsser> Eagle annoyed me :P
[09:17] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: Yes - the cert has expired - it's being dealt with I believe
[09:18] <Ben-AstroSoc> goodgood
[09:18] <Ben-AstroSoc> ordering antenna gear today
[09:19] <AndyEsser> \o/
[09:19] <AndyEsser> what're you going for?
[09:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> that yagi on farnell + one of the cheap-ish dongles
[09:20] <AndyEsser> cool
[09:20] <AndyEsser> let me know how you get on
[09:20] <AndyEsser> my antenna are seriously letting me down atm so need to invest in some good stuff
[09:20] <Ben-AstroSoc> will do
[09:21] <Ben-AstroSoc> we bought 3 328s so spending tomorrow setting up our breadboarding for everything
[09:21] <AndyEsser> \o/
[09:21] <Ben-AstroSoc> i've still gotta work out how to change fuse bits
[09:21] <AndyEsser> if you have any issue with the 328's, give me a shout - happy to help out
[09:21] <fsphil> avrdude dude
[09:21] <AndyEsser> how are you programming them? (What OS, IDE/editor, language)
[09:21] <AndyEsser> and as fsphil says: avrdude
[09:21] <AndyEsser> you set the fuse bits as you transfer the program over to the 328 via avrdude
[09:21] <Ben-AstroSoc> using the uni machines to windows 7/avr studio 4/c
[09:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> right
[09:22] <fsphil> no idea how you'd do it on windows
[09:22] <fsphil> it's not as friendly
[09:22] <AndyEsser> kk - I have no experience with avr studio - but I do use windows
[09:22] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: what are you doing for XTAL/Oscillator?
[09:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> i found the MAKE: AVR programming book - i think its in there
[09:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> we have an 8MHz crystal
[09:22] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: cool
[09:23] <AndyEsser> my fuse bit settings should be good for you as well then
[09:23] <Ben-AstroSoc> i believe it's that + 2 ~22pF capacitors and the rest of the circuitry is on the chip
[09:23] <adamgreig> wiki's back
[09:23] <AndyEsser> the caps depend on the capactiance of the crystal and the expected load capacitance
[09:24] <AndyEsser> I did calculate it and have then promptly forgotten how to do so ;)
[09:24] <Ben-AstroSoc> i think its in the datasheet
[09:24] <Ben-AstroSoc> i remember reading it
[09:26] <mfa298> AndyEsser: from what I've seen avrstudio uses the Visual Studio framework to give an IDE for programming AVR chips.
[09:26] <mfa298> and there is a bit in there to set fuses as well. Only downside seems to be programming / setting fuses seems a bit convuluted compared to just using a makefile
[09:26] <AndyEsser> nice
[09:26] <AndyEsser> I just use Visual Studio direct
[09:29] <Ben-AstroSoc> if it comes to it i'll poke the resident technician, he knows what he's doing
[09:30] <AndyEsser> daveake: "Right. So where exactly, at 100,000 feet am I going to find a mains supply? Perhaps go higher and ask the International Space Station if they have a spare mains reel?"
[09:30] <SIbot> In real units: 100,000 ft = 30.5 km
[09:31] <AndyEsser> made me chuckle :)
[09:31] <AndyEsser> err... thanks SIbot
[09:32] <daveake> Ah yes, Kodak "support"
[09:33] <AndyEsser> heh
[09:33] <AndyEsser> when I was drawing up my tracker on the whiteboard last night I sat there thinking "I'm sure there's more stuff it's supposed to have..."
[09:33] <AndyEsser> middle of the night remembered "Ah yes... SD Card"
[09:34] <Ben-AstroSoc> ours seems pretty bare too
[09:34] <Ben-AstroSoc> although we don't have datalogging yet
[09:34] <AndyEsser> I need to figure out the FTDI and the battery charge circuit, and then the SD Card
[09:34] <AndyEsser> and the correct calculations for the battery level check
[09:34] <Ben-AstroSoc> oh you're incorporating a charger?
[09:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> ain't nobody got time for that
[09:35] <AndyEsser> but once that's in - will be a case of filling in all the the blanks for the resistor/capacitor values - active circuitry for the GPS antenna then moving over to KiCAD
[09:35] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: tracker is designed to be 'plug and play' and since it'll have a micro-usb connector on it for the serial interface - might as well stick charging in as well
[09:36] <Ben-AstroSoc> fair - using insulated batteries then?
[09:36] <Ben-AstroSoc> which antenna are you using?
[09:36] <fsphil> plug and realise you forgot to charge it
[09:36] <AndyEsser> fsphil: added benefit ^
[09:36] <fsphil> are you going to have a AA backup?
[09:36] <AndyEsser> fsphil: no
[09:37] <AndyEsser> 2x lithium flat packs
[09:37] <AndyEsser> (the 2x atm is 1 for each tracker, potentially more depending on how long it takes)
[09:37] <AndyEsser> the tracker also has a coin cell on it for the RTC and V_Backup lines for the GPS
[09:37] Action: AndyEsser is hoping he can still fit all this on a 50mm x 50mm PCB
[09:37] <AndyEsser> :)
[09:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> we're doing some multilayered thing so we can fit it in the body
[09:38] <AndyEsser> I'm sticking to just double-sided
[09:38] <AndyEsser> primarily with the under-side being power or ground plane
[09:38] <AndyEsser> daveake: don't you like pretty URL's on your blog?
[09:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> no as in 2 PCBs stacked on top
[09:39] <AndyEsser> ah ok - my bad
[09:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> we can only etch singele sided at uni iirc
[09:39] <AndyEsser> the PCB has an expansion connector for fitting other PCBs on a bus system (so I can have dedicated boards for sensors etc if I need)
[09:39] <adamgreig> just buy the pcbs, $10 gets you ten double sided 5x5cm
[09:39] <AndyEsser> %
[09:39] <AndyEsser> ^*
[09:39] <adamgreig> uni etching is pretty poor mostly
[09:39] <fsphil> !!
[09:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> i think we're supposed to be making them
[09:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> not sure
[09:39] <adamgreig> oh
[09:39] <adamgreig> can't be helped then maybe
[09:39] <AndyEsser> make the PCB as a prototype
[09:39] <adamgreig> try and etch double sided
[09:39] <adamgreig> you can do it
[09:40] <AndyEsser> then order from China :)
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[09:40] <AndyEsser> but yea - if you have etch tanks and stuff - should be 'easy' enough to do double-sided
[09:40] <Ben-AstroSoc> will check with the techand see what PCB materials he has, might order dobule sided in if he doens't have it
[09:41] <Ben-AstroSoc> i don't get to be involved in the etching process despite doing it for years in highschool :/
[09:41] <adamgreig> if it's just the techs doing the etching i don't see why you couldn't get them ordered in
[09:41] <adamgreig> claim you need better specs than the techs can do
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[09:41] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: great way to upset your techs :P
[09:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> we'll see if we can build the thing small enough f irst i guess
[09:42] <adamgreig> open competition makes everyone better
[09:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> we're already dipping into the uni budget
[09:42] <adamgreig> I mean, good luck competing with $10 for 10x double sided 5/5 spec boards with silk and mask in any colour you like
[09:44] <Ben-AstroSoc> i'll talk to the techs, it's an electronics design module so they might want us to build/populate our stuff ourselves
[09:44] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: with DirtyPCB and stuff - you still solder/populate yourself
[09:44] <AndyEsser> you just get a package with your PCB's printed
[09:47] <Ben-AstroSoc> those are nice looking PCBs i'll give you that
[09:47] <SpeedEvil> the only major plus with in-house is really it can be there today
[09:48] <kokey> where did LORA1 come from?
[09:51] <fsphil> daveake's imagination
[10:03] <eroomde> from the ashes of radio and Pi in the SKY
[10:05] <daveake> It was the seed of my own destruction
[10:06] <kokey> ok thanks now I know
[10:06] <kokey> not much more than I did before
[10:07] <kokey> is it a pico?
[10:07] <kokey> or is it fake?
[10:08] <daveake> Real non-pico flight
[10:12] <Ben-AstroSoc> what uk suppliers do you guys use for an rtl-sdr dongle?
[10:13] <craag> http://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=346
[10:14] <Ben-AstroSoc> ta
[10:14] <Ben-AstroSoc> to double check - http://uk.farnell.com/lprs/yagi-434a/antenna-yagi-7-element-434mhz/dp/2096215 will this plug into that or do i need to get an adaptor?
[10:16] <craag> You'll need one of these http://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=289
[10:16] <craag> Dongle has an MCX Socket
[10:16] <craag> Thay Yagi has an SMA plug
[10:16] <Ben-AstroSoc> cool, thanks
[10:16] <Ben-AstroSoc> what sort of antenna do you guys use on the actual HAB? haven't looked into that yet
[10:16] <eroomde> 'you have to get the boundary conditions exactly right despite there being no documentation. If you get them wrong it will not tell you, it will just spit floating point errors at you. This is what slays the noobs.'
[10:17] <craag> Ben-AstroSoc: A DIY quarter-wave antenna
[10:17] <eroomde> - message from my friend who used to work on open foam after i asked him about some heat transfer stuff
[10:17] <craag> !wiki antenna
[10:17] <eroomde> amused me
[10:17] <SpacenearUS> 03craag: Found 035 results for you query - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/start?do=search&id=antenna
[10:17] <craag> Ben-AstroSoc: https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payload_antenna
[10:18] <Ben-AstroSoc> cheers, will read up
[10:18] <Ben-AstroSoc> can confirm this is more interesting than my operating systems thread scheduling lecture
[10:20] <Vaizki> hmm how is that 7 elem yagi 9dBi gain? I thought they are usually 11dBi or so?
[10:20] <craag> Maybe it's being truthful Vaizki ;)
[10:20] <Vaizki> definite possibility that.. :)
[10:21] <mfa298> lists quite a wide bandwidth (390-480)
[10:22] <fsphil> noobslayer
[10:23] <Vaizki> mfa298, yes but the gain is listed at 450MHz, not across the whole bandwidth
[10:23] <eroomde> cleansing all before him with his NaNs of fire
[10:25] <mfa298> Vaizki: I'm assuming they've traded ultimate gain for bandwidth, might not be the 9dBi away from 450MHz but there must be some still.
[10:26] <mfa298> interesting that they've quoted gain not at the centre of the listed bandwidth.
[10:26] <Ben-AstroSoc> put the antenna through the uni suppliers (free antenna woo)
[10:26] <mfa298> shame there's no useful plots
[10:27] <Ben-AstroSoc> this cosycave site sells teh weirdest selection of things
[10:27] <Vaizki> mfa298, maybe it's originally a design for 450MHz LTE...
[10:28] <Vaizki> I'm guessing that WCDMA/LTE antennas make up 90+% of the market for cheap yagis outside the DVB-T frequencies :)
[10:29] <Laurenceb> haha eroomde
[10:29] <Laurenceb> you should try elmer then
[10:30] <Laurenceb> deceptively simple.. until your mesh isnt numerically stable
[10:31] <Laurenceb> I've yet to make that beast behave at all :-/
[10:31] <Laurenceb> ended up writing everything in matlab and taking less time than I had spent reading elmer docs
[10:32] <eroomde> you should learn python
[10:33] <Laurenceb> yeah yeah... one day
[10:33] <Vaizki> do you guys use ipython btw?
[10:33] <eroomde> yes
[10:33] <eroomde> swe use notebooks extensively at work
[10:33] <Laurenceb> the learn a new skill versus doing productive work with existing (but sub optimal) tools
[10:33] <russss> ipython is great
[10:34] <Laurenceb> I'll give it a try... soon
[10:35] <Vaizki> biggest problem with matlab for me is that I don't have matlab :)
[10:36] <eroomde> Laurenceb: it's not a huge jump from matlab to python
[10:36] <eroomde> and it opens up the very large world of very good python tools and libraries
[10:36] <Laurenceb> ok
[10:36] <Vaizki> and matlab shares a space with latex in my brain anyway
[10:36] <Vaizki> it's not a happy box
[10:36] <Laurenceb> lol
[10:37] <Laurenceb> we use matlab and latex and little else at work :D
[10:37] <Laurenceb> oh... labview
[10:37] <Laurenceb> lulz
[10:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> here we go again :^)
[10:40] <eroomde> matlab and labview
[10:40] <eroomde> it's so depressing
[10:40] <Ben-AstroSoc> i hated the 4 weeks of MATLAB i did
[10:41] <Ben-AstroSoc> downloading vb audio cable and dl-fldigi now (its happening!)
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[10:42] <Ian_> Ben-AstroSoc it may not be what you want, but this is a good place to start with understanding your Atmega fuses. Just select the right part and start playing for the insight.
[10:42] <Ian_> http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/ Almost forgot the linky
[10:43] <Lunar_LanderU> that link is awesome
[10:43] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03OERNEN-II after 033 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=OERNEN-II
[10:43] <Ben-AstroSoc> bookmarked that, thanks:D
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[10:44] <Vaizki> btw I use VoiceMeeter instead of VB Audio Cable.. works a treat.
[10:44] <Vaizki> they can also co-exist
[10:45] <Ben-AstroSoc> will take a look, just downloaded one of the ones on the wiki
[10:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WB8ELK-6 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-6
[10:46] <Vaizki> it's like a pimped up version of the Cable with virtual mixer..
[10:47] <Vaizki> but the GUI for it has to be running for it to pass along audio
[10:47] <Laurenceb> https://veuwer.com/i/3mrc.png
[10:47] T-Eagle (uid44804@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-inbtzhchiyjungtd) joined #highaltitude.
[10:49] <Ian_> So, who loves ya! ^^
[10:51] <Ben-AstroSoc> omg that neagof ban
[10:51] <Ben-AstroSoc> is that place still going
[10:52] <Vaizki> apparently it's overcrowded even ;)
[10:56] <Vaizki> oh there is even a VoiceMeeter Banana (!) now.. with parametric eqs and all kinds of filters + built in recording.. :O
[10:56] SP9UOB (5b7bd15e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.123.209.94) joined #highaltitude.
[10:56] <Vaizki> http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Voicemeeter/banana.htm
[10:56] <fsphil> right, these stupid names have to end
[10:56] <Ben-AstroSoc> ahhahhaa
[10:56] <fsphil> it was cute for a while, but now it's gone too far
[10:57] <SP9UOB> morning All
[10:57] <Vaizki> fsphil, so what exactly is wrong with 'phil' then? :)
[10:57] <SP9UOB> How's the switzerland solar balloon? Any news ?
[10:57] Nick change: gonzo__ -> gonzo_
[10:58] <eroomde> we asked the swiss about their bouyancy, they only said they wished to remain neutral
[10:58] <SP9UOB> LOL ;-)
[10:58] <Vaizki> :P
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[10:59] <R34lB0rg> thats fine if they plan to use propulsion / aerodynamic lift
[11:00] <daveake> where's that whoosh parrot
[11:00] <Ben-AstroSoc> the radials/coax of that 1/4 wave antenna have to be straight and square, right?
[11:01] <daveake> ideally, yes
[11:01] <daveake> the radiation pattern will be less uniform if not
[11:01] <Ben-AstroSoc> gotcha
[11:01] <Ben-AstroSoc> only ever used aeriails for 2.4GHz and they have a lot of leewy so
[11:01] <Ben-AstroSoc> leeway*
[11:02] <daveake> There's plenty of leeway in 50 baud anyway, and some very non-ideal antennae have worked plenty well enough
[11:02] <AndyEsser> eroomde: that joke appeared to fall flat...
[11:02] <Ben-AstroSoc> i guess we'll have time to test what we build so
[11:03] <fsphil> or sometimes no antenna
[11:03] <AndyEsser> Antennae are overrated
[11:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> lets hope cosycave ships nice and fast
[11:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03hkLo1 after 0317 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hkLo1
[11:04] <eroomde> http://www.nixonflowmeters.co.uk/
[11:04] <Ben-AstroSoc> need to emailthe CAA about launching from the field out teh back of my house this week
[11:04] <eroomde> i sincerely hope that some part of their product range is called a water-gate
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[11:08] <daveake> that would be peachy
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[11:11] <AndyEsser> hehe
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[11:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> coax tail for antenna ordered
[11:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> aside from batteries i think thats all the electronics sorted
[11:18] <AndyEsser> Guarantee you've forgotten something :P
[11:18] <Ben-AstroSoc> i have many lists
[11:18] <Ben-AstroSoc> youre probablyright tho
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[11:46] <Vaizki> http://www.imdes.de/condens_uk/condens_uk_pdf/mini-condens_it_price_list_uk_exhibition_21_06_2015.pdf
[11:46] <Vaizki> interesting, these are getting "affordable"
[11:46] <Vaizki> (vapor phase reflow)
[11:47] <Laurenceb> nice
[11:47] <Laurenceb> apart from the smell
[11:47] <adamgreig> wow, yea, ¬600
[11:47] <adamgreig> do want
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[11:48] Action: Laurenceb wonders about DIY vapour phase
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> Interesting
[11:48] <adamgreig> lol plus ¬130 for your first half litre of fluid
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> DIY vapour phase is pretty easy
[11:48] <adamgreig> is it though
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> it's jut the fluid is horribly expnsive
[11:48] <Laurenceb> steam soldering
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:48] <Laurenceb> use a pressure cooker
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Do you like popcorn? Because that's how you get popcorn
[11:49] <Laurenceb> annoyingly pressure cookers arent hot enough
[11:49] <SpeedEvil> I was earlier looking at soldering performance in low oxygen
[11:49] <SpeedEvil> Getting to 1% oxygen is most of the way there.
[11:49] <SpeedEvil> solder flows quite a lot further
[11:50] <Vaizki> I found a vide of Laurenceb soldering.. https://youtu.be/XbbROe8xOZQ?t=30s
[11:50] <Vaizki> and it's hot enough!
[11:51] <Laurenceb> need about 3Mpa pressure for steam soldering :-/
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> I really want to see you try steam soldering
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> (from a safe distance)
[11:53] <Laurenceb> I guess a 3MPa pressure vessel isnt too hard
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[11:59] <Laurenceb> http://hackaday.com/2010/10/15/vapor-phase-reflow-soldering/
[12:00] <Laurenceb> holy shit spatula tzar in the comment
[12:00] <Laurenceb> http://spatulatzar.com/fly_plane/
[12:00] <Laurenceb> it never gets old
[12:01] <Ben-AstroSoc> what the hell is that
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[12:01] <SpeedEvil> Can you decompress from 3MPa in a tractable time though
[12:01] <SpeedEvil> If using steam
[12:01] <SpeedEvil> without popcorning
[12:04] <SP9UOB> OM1ATS: hi :-)
[12:05] <SM0ULC-Reb> Any signs of the swiss guys?
[12:05] <SP9UOB> SM0ULC-Reb: nope :-(
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[12:43] <Lunar_LanderU> eugen found a short on the balloon board, where the cutdown supply is plugged in
[12:43] <Lunar_LanderU> suspect that is a cause for the malfunctions
[12:45] namor (b2c5e2fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.197.226.252) joined #highaltitude.
[12:46] <namor> #habhub
[12:48] <SM0ULC-Reb> /join #habhub
[12:48] <SM0ULC-Reb> it is
[12:49] <craag> Ah so the batteries were shorted Lunar_LanderU ?
[12:49] <Lunar_LanderU> the cutdown batteries it seems#
[12:50] <daveake> ow
[12:50] <Lunar_LanderU> don't know if that also affected the AVR in some way
[12:50] <craag> That would explain it :)
[12:50] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[12:50] <craag> Note it down for f3 next month ;)
[12:50] <Lunar_LanderU> yea :)
[12:50] <Lunar_LanderU> the problem was that the solder pads for that socket were quite worn already
[12:50] <craag> I see
[12:50] <Lunar_LanderU> and that probably led to the short because I soldered it on pretty thick
[12:51] <Lunar_LanderU> but the metal did not touch
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[12:55] <R34lB0rg> but the camera worked?
[12:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PISKY - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PISKY
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[13:01] <Lunar_LanderU> yes that worked
[13:01] <Lunar_LanderU> yesterday I tried to cut a video, isn't done yet
[13:02] <namor_> dear everybody. here is hkLo1. we had to give up due to strong wind ,o(
[13:02] <fsphil> aww
[13:02] <SP9UOB> oh
[13:02] <fsphil> seems to be a theme today
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[13:10] <SM0ULC-Reb> :(
[13:10] <Lunar_LanderU> ohhh#
[13:12] <SP9UOB> Bye All
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[13:22] <AndyEsser> craag: next month? that seems optimistic ;)
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[13:25] <eroomde> good motto for a startup making missiles:
[13:25] <eroomde> move fast and break things
[13:26] <chris_99> lol
[13:26] <AndyEsser> haha
[13:26] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
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[13:30] <fsphil> warning: control reaches end of non-void function 'detonate_payload'
[13:30] <AndyEsser> what's the appropriate return code?
[13:30] <lz1dev> -1
[13:30] <AndyEsser> return 1; // Good detonation
[13:31] <craag> but if it returns then you clearly haven't detonated
[13:31] <Lunar_LanderU> :D
[13:31] <AndyEsser> I'm not sure PCB obliterated is part of the feature description of a missile
[13:32] <AndyEsser> unless for OpSec purposes
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[13:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP6NVB-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-12
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[13:54] <Ben-AstroSoc> is there a guide/doc set for dl-fldigi?
[13:55] <AndyEsser> It's called #highaltitude on Freenode :P
[13:55] <Ben-AstroSoc> ayy
[13:56] <Laurenceb> https://aerospace.honeywell.com/en/products/navigation-and-sensors/gg1320an-digital-ring-laser-gyroscope
[13:56] <Laurenceb> 0.0035 deg/root-hour
[13:56] <fsphil> Ben-AstroSoc: https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[13:56] <daveake> https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[13:56] <daveake> doh
[13:57] <mattbrejza> Laurenceb: looks expensive...
[13:58] <Ben-AstroSoc> thats perfect thanksjust installed dl-fldigi and alreayd wondering what both versions of it do >_>
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[14:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> just realised that my netbook only has one usb port - hope it'll be sufficient
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: yeah 'sales' - that link doesn't have enough $'s.
[14:04] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> I was amused on researching the accellerometer/gyro ITAR limits to find out there was no noise spc
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> All they care about is drift/year
[14:05] <Laurenceb> lol per year
[14:05] <gonzo_> is flying one, exporting ?
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> offset drift that is
[14:07] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: 1x RTL SDR - what more do you need?
[14:07] <AndyEsser> or get a USB hub
[14:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> guess i'm not using my usb coffee mug /s
[14:07] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: o you're one of them ¬¬
[14:08] <AndyEsser> was doing a project at school over the summer once - one of the teachers had one of those USB coffee warmer coasters
[14:08] <AndyEsser> powered even when PC was off
[14:08] <AndyEsser> left on all summer
[14:08] <AndyEsser> recommendations for MILSPEC or similar PCB connectors for power?
[14:08] <Ben-AstroSoc> one ofmy teammates made one similar this summer - it lights up to tell you when your coffee is too cold
[14:09] <gonzo_> so it's just a coaster with a permenantly lit led?
[14:09] <AndyEsser> or lol
[14:09] <Ben-AstroSoc> yep
[14:09] <AndyEsser> err.. no idea where the or came from...
[14:09] <gonzo_> 5W is nolt going to do much to a cup of coffee
[14:09] <Vaizki> hmm ok 1 arcsecond of precision in rotation is.. nice
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: depends on the cup.
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: I have a 5l thermos that will boil on 5W
[14:09] <gonzo_> an average cup
[14:10] <Ben-AstroSoc> whats the specific heat capacitancce of an average cup of coffee
[14:10] <Vaizki> is that a B-cup?
[14:10] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: behave
[14:10] <Vaizki> it's ok I'm from Finland
[14:10] <gonzo_> SpeedEvil, in how mant days
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: probably about 3 weeks
[14:11] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: you're a mil-spec type person, aren't you?
[14:12] <gonzo_> if it was perfect, about 22hrs
[14:13] <Vostok> B-cup, where
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Giant-Action-Airpot-litre-capacity/dp/B001MX9D6G - I intend to make a solar - electric water heater thingy
[14:13] <eroomde> if you want six thousand words on the subject of milsepc i'm always here to help
[14:14] <Vaizki> giant pump action?
[14:14] <AndyEsser> eroomde: was trying to spread my annoying questions amonst the 'Elders' :P
[14:14] <Vaizki> and I'm supposed to behave?
[14:15] <eroomde> i think the milsepc disease, to the extent it has been transmitted, is because of my promiscuity
[14:15] <AndyEsser> Fine
[14:15] <eroomde> but i do advocate good quality heatshrink
[14:15] <AndyEsser> shall expect your 6,000 words in my inbox before 3pm
[14:17] <eroomde> you need to prompt me so i can rif
[14:17] <eroomde> what do you need
[14:18] <AndyEsser> primarily suggestions for PCB connectors for power and data-bus
[14:18] <AndyEsser> and cable suggestions
[14:18] <eroomde> pcb connectors generally aren't milsepc
[14:18] <eroomde> it's the panel stuff that's milspec
[14:18] <AndyEsser> I noticed by the google search I did
[14:18] <AndyEsser> seemed to be box/panel connectors
[14:19] <AndyEsser> ah, :)
[14:19] <AndyEsser> wasn't sure if I was missing something :)
[14:19] <eroomde> the idea being that you have a pcb in a box and you have some kind of pcb-panel cable/connectors
[14:19] <AndyEsser> Had thought about the screwable green pcb mount 90 degree things
[14:19] <AndyEsser> but screws come loose with vibration so wasn't sure
[14:19] <eroomde> so a basic molex like we used to use on the pcb
[14:19] <eroomde> going to a pnel milspec
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[14:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> you're not running rocket engines andy
[14:19] <eroomde> they shouldn;t actually come too loose if in plastic housings
[14:20] <eroomde> but i still like the molex things we used to use
[14:20] <eroomde> but don;t bother unless you can a proper crimp tool
[14:20] <Ben-AstroSoc> worstcase - solder the wires to the board and use a deans plug or something
[14:20] <AndyEsser> "We used to use"?
[14:20] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: not yet I'm not ;)
[14:20] <eroomde> as for wires, i tend to use ptfe basic stuff inside the enclosures
[14:20] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: soldering wires onto PCB is bad *glares*
[14:20] <eroomde> and spec55 outside
[14:20] <eroomde> AndyEsser: we used to use at cranleigh
[14:20] <eroomde> you know the white things
[14:20] <AndyEsser> the shitty thin white SIL things?
[14:21] <eroomde> they're not shitty
[14:21] <AndyEsser> really? seems like an ant farting in the enclosure would knock it loose
[14:21] <eroomde> that's because we used snipe nose pliers instead of a crimp tool
[14:21] <eroomde> which is unforgivable in hindsight
[14:21] <AndyEsser> heh
[14:21] <AndyEsser> fair enough
[14:21] <eroomde> but a properly crimped one is very secure
[14:22] <AndyEsser> that surprises me but ok
[14:22] <eroomde> they are bigger (in pitch and current rating) than you need for a lot of stuff
[14:22] <eroomde> picoblade is a smaller family
[14:22] <mattbrejza> or just solder them
[14:22] Action: mattbrejza hidews
[14:22] <eroomde> solder the crimps?
[14:22] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: ¬¬
[14:22] <eroomde> jesus
[14:22] <chris_99> on the topic of pcb connectors, has anyone seen a board-to-board connector, primarily designed for carrying power between pcbs at 5A+, with around 40 pins, i can't to seem to find anything that is designed mainly for carrying power, that has both male & female pcb mount connectors
[14:22] <eroomde> i see you were joking
[14:22] <eroomde> for anyone else reading, mattbrejza was joking
[14:22] <eroomde> never solder crimps
[14:22] <mattbrejza> that is what we used to do in school though
[14:22] <mattbrejza> didnt have the crimp tool
[14:23] <mattbrejza> i now know why you dont solder them though
[14:23] <eroomde> we did too. it made an awful situation awfuller
[14:23] <Ben-AstroSoc> we used pliers :')
[14:23] <eroomde> why you don't solder them?
[14:23] <AndyEsser> eroomde: no spec55 stuff inside the case?
[14:23] <eroomde> because a proper crimp connection is a cold weld
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[14:23] <eroomde> soldering them just wicks solder further into the copper where it's less well mechanically supported
[14:23] <eroomde> so it tends to break there
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[14:24] <eroomde> a crimpcold-welds to the copper and crimps onto the insulation so you have good electrical and mechanical contact and support
[14:24] <eroomde> solder definitely and unquestionably makes the connection worse
[14:24] <eroomde> never ever do that ever
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[14:24] <eroomde> AndyEsser: no - unless you're expecting abrasion and chmeical attack inside the case
[14:24] <eroomde> in which case you've bigger problems
[14:24] <AndyEsser> heh
[14:25] <Vaizki> chris_99, you want 40 pins of 5A+..? :O
[14:25] <eroomde> spec55 is rollys royce stuff, you don't have to use it
[14:25] Action: AndyEsser dumps enclosure into vat of hydrochloric acid to 'test'
[14:25] <eroomde> but if you want to use it you should
[14:25] <eroomde> just like everyone should know what a really nice champgane tastes like even if they choose not to buy it
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[14:25] <AndyEsser> I'm just trying to reduce as many failure points as possible
[14:25] <chris_99> Vaizki, nah, not all pins will actually be at 5A, but the pin providing 5A will change due to multiplexing
[14:25] <eroomde> chris_99: weurth might do something
[14:26] <eroomde> i'd look there or samtec
[14:26] <AndyEsser> right - have to pop to err... a store people dislike in this channel
[14:26] <AndyEsser> back in a bit
[14:26] <eroomde> they won;t have spec55
[14:26] <eroomde> at maplins
[14:26] <AndyEsser> nah, this is for a PC build I'm doing
[14:26] <AndyEsser> need a PCIe -> Molex adapter and some other bits
[14:27] <AndyEsser> so it's either The Store That Must Not Be Named, or PC World
[14:27] <eroomde> warning: uninitialised store
[14:27] <Ben-AstroSoc> oramazon
[14:27] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: sadly 1-hour Amazon isn't being trialed in Chester
[14:28] <Ben-AstroSoc> rip
[14:28] <AndyEsser> anyway, brb
[14:28] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I may poke you a bit later to discuss cables/connectors more if you don't mind
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[14:28] <chris_99> eroomde, yeah i've looked at this one http://uk.farnell.com/samtec/ssw-125-01-t-d/receptacle-2-54mm-tht-50way/dp/2308495 by samtec, It does say '5.7 A per pin (1 pin powered per row)' though, but i was wondering if that's an absolute max rating, rather than to be designed for taking 5A continously
[14:28] <Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjn3AzOk0Bo
[14:29] <eroomde> chris_99: it'll likely be continuous
[14:29] <chris_99> ah cool, that would work well for me then
[14:30] <Haxxa> HI Guys, you guys are probally good at determining if something is insulated correctly - not really high alt. but I want to know if this will last...
[14:30] <Haxxa> OK photo time: ESP8266 based Plant Health, Mailbox, UV, Heat and Motion sensing Internet Connected device - Main concern is bare/thin moisture sensors : https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNFAfNoaQf-x9qGxt7vsFaKgLreNieu_Ei-R27q5hClQlNSOOn_fp9Awj9e0TbIKg?key=d0prN3V6ajRxS3ZLNHg2TmViUERBaG1vUFdnUkNn
[14:31] <Laurenceb> kickstarter is that way ->
[14:31] <eroomde> Haxxa: i can;t really see what the sensors look like
[14:33] <Haxxa> Laurenceb, why can't we do fun things for the point of fun - not every dumb device is a kickstarter product - mine is just me learning stuff and having fun
[14:34] <Haxxa> eroomde, the only sensors outside are moisture sensors (soil) so just cathode and anode but my concern is if its ok to leave the metal contacts exposed
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[14:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> you could use graphite contacts, they won't oxidise
[14:35] <eroomde> i probably wouldn;t if it was me
[14:35] <eroomde> adhesive-lined heatshrink would probably fix you
[14:36] <Haxxa> What about the soalr panel itself - the underside is bare metal
[14:36] <Haxxa> Ok will do
[14:36] <eroomde> i'd protect that too if it's not designed to be exposed to the environment
[14:37] <Haxxa> with what though its a large surface?
[14:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> could build a small enclosure for it?
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[14:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> i've protected solar panels with laser-cut perspex before now
[14:38] <Haxxa> hmm seems overkill I could always buy a new one
[14:38] <Haxxa> I might just let it go over time
[14:39] <Haxxa> it should last atleast a week hopefully
[14:39] <eroomde> what you want to avoid generally is galcanic corrosion
[14:39] <eroomde> so let's say you have two dissimilar metals, so solder on copper
[14:40] <eroomde> and you get some electrolyte in there - some water condenses
[14:40] <eroomde> then you have a problem
[14:40] <eroomde> galvanic sorry
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[14:41] <eroomde> that's what will eat away at it quickly and cause an early failure
[14:41] <eroomde> so for example, when soldering PTH components to a pcb that might live outside, i always re-wet the joints (add a bit more solder) after chopping excess component legs off
[14:42] <eroomde> this jets rid of that solder-metal-solder junction that gets exposed to air when you shop the leg off
[14:42] <eroomde> it caps the metal peg completely in solder
[14:43] <Haxxa> The other issue is the firmware currently does nothing but blink a light every second. I really should fix that too...
[14:44] <eroomde> i found a pic of when i explained this to someone here a couple of yrs ago
[14:44] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/l16sqkmo7lcipvu/2014-03-02%2013.01.07.jpg?dl=0
[14:44] <Haxxa> seems simple enough
[14:46] <Haxxa> Do I want the enclosure to brath or be completely sealed?
[14:46] <Haxxa> *breath
[14:46] <eroomde> you want it heated with a hole at the bottom
[14:46] <eroomde> ideally
[14:46] <SpeedEvil> If you have external powered circuitry, then if your box is at 10C over ambient, you will never get condensation
[14:47] <eroomde> that way stuff won't condense inside it but when it does it can drain out
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> As the internal humidity will sit at ~50% or so
[14:47] <eroomde> but unfrotunately you can never seal it off completely so it's best to not try
[14:47] <eroomde> unless you go really mad
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> A lightly insulated box.
[14:48] <Haxxa> currently the box is sealed with some games in the orings were the wires leave - so air cureently can enter
[14:48] <Laurenceb> you could submerge in novac fluid...
[14:48] <Laurenceb> or whatever its called
[14:48] <Haxxa> is it likely I would get water condensing?
[14:48] <SpeedEvil> Or add gas-tight feed-throughs
[14:48] <Laurenceb> unlikely to stay that way
[14:49] <SpeedEvil> I made a very silly USB external box for the garden
[14:49] <Laurenceb> conformal coating might be worth it
[14:49] <SpeedEvil> it had a soldered copper box and vacuum feedthroughs
[14:51] <Haxxa> Ok this is just a simple box for a basic project - anything easier?
[14:51] <eroomde> hotter than outside and a hole in the bottom
[14:51] <eroomde> that'll do it
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> Haxxa: a mostly sealed box, with the cables entering at the bottom, and another box over the top ideally to keep the sun off so it doesn't get too hot
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> enough heat inside so it gets to 10C above ambient and done
[14:53] <Haxxa> Why do I need it not to get too hot?
[14:53] <SpeedEvil> much electronics bcomes unreliable at - say - 60C
[14:55] <AndyEsser> stupid mother frakking Maplins...
[14:55] <Haxxa> Why cables enter the bottom?
[14:55] <Haxxa> why not sides?
[14:55] <Laurenceb> another silly idea: smear the pcb with grease
[14:56] <Laurenceb> so water doesnt enter it
[14:56] <mattbrejza> or conformal coating..?
[14:56] <Laurenceb> yup
[14:56] <Haxxa> It is currently hailing outside with heavy rain - so good test
[14:56] <craag> dump it in a block of resin :D
[14:56] <Laurenceb> I was going for silly cheap ideas
[14:56] <Miek> there's this stuff, but again a little over the top: http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/112810-raytech-magic-gel-1-litre-pack.html
[14:57] <Haxxa> Btw tlets say the moisture sensor corrodes will the micro break as a result - why should I care about insulating the moisture sensors with heat shrink?
[14:58] <Haxxa> If the cable corrodes isn't the worse thing simply that the sensor stops working
[14:58] <gonzo_> the down side of having something warmer than the surroundings, it fills with spiders
[15:01] <eroomde> the micro probably won't break
[15:02] <eroomde> but your question suggests you don;t care if the moisture sensors break?
[15:02] <Haxxa> no I don't
[15:02] <Haxxa> Only if the mirco breaks
[15:02] <eroomde> that's strange
[15:02] <eroomde> but ok
[15:04] <Haxxa> the moisture sensor is only a small part - the main part is the mailbox detection
[15:04] <Haxxa> its like I have some free io might as well fill em
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[15:15] <AndyEsser> right, after a morning of faff... Monet is finally ready to get an OS
[15:17] <AndyEsser> o0o datasheet for my battery candidate has arrived
[15:20] <eroomde> battery candidate?
[15:20] <AndyEsser> "Discharge cut-off voltage"
[15:20] <eroomde> 'desirable: at least 3 years of experience being a battery'
[15:20] <AndyEsser> please tell me that doesn't mean it cuts off the when it hits that voltage...
[15:20] <AndyEsser> eroomde: Yes :P
[15:21] <daveake> "capacity for working long hours"
[15:21] <eroomde> that probably is what it means
[15:21] <AndyEsser> rated voltage: 3.7v
[15:21] <AndyEsser> discharge cut-off voltage 3v
[15:21] <AndyEsser> hmm
[15:21] <daveake> They need to cut off because full discharge damages them
[15:21] <AndyEsser> gotcha
[15:22] <daveake> and damaged lips are also explodey
[15:22] <AndyEsser> Any ideas what "0.2C Discharge" or "1C" means on a battery datasheet?
[15:22] <daveake> lipos
[15:22] <AndyEsser> daveake: doubt it'd make for an impressive night sky if my little enclosure exploded
[15:22] <AndyEsser> haha
[15:22] <gonzo_> C is the full rates capacity
[15:22] <AndyEsser> ah ok gotcha
[15:22] <AndyEsser> thought it might've been, but wantedt o checl
[15:22] <AndyEsser> wanted to check*
[15:23] <AndyEsser> Rated Capacity: 1300 mAh (0.2C Discharge)
[15:25] <AndyEsser> >= 54 minutes duration at 1C after being in 60 degrees C for 2 hours
[15:25] <AndyEsser> lets just hope it doesn't get that warm ;)
[15:26] <gonzo_> not seen it used in terms of discharge, but common for charging.
[15:27] <AndyEsser> I suspect I'd get more information from this datasheet if I spoke Mandarin
[15:27] <AndyEsser> :)
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[15:28] <AndyEsser> "After 400 cycles... the battery should note explode"
[15:28] <AndyEsser> that'd be good :)
[15:29] <gonzo_> sounds like mission impossib;e
[15:35] <AndyEsser> Impossibru
[15:36] <Laurenceb> is this drive bad? http://pastebin.com/Y5k5L6bq
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[15:37] <AndyEsser> it says it's all fine?
[15:38] <AndyEsser> unless I'm missing something
[15:38] <AndyEsser> daveake: just reading up on BUZZ2
[15:38] <daveake> ah yeah
[15:38] <Vaizki> AndyEsser, I guess you got it already but 0.2C from 1300mAh battery means 260mA discharge rate
[15:39] <Vaizki> my irc proxy is acting up and I lost channel history.. why doesn't stuff just work
[15:39] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: cheers
[15:39] <daveake> irccloud will sort that
[15:39] <daveake> or run znc
[15:39] <AndyEsser> daveake: magmount antennae... what are they like at speed?
[15:39] <AndyEsser> :)
[15:39] <daveake> or many other options probably
[15:39] <daveake> I don't speed
[15:39] <Vaizki> daveake, znc is what's acting up
[15:40] <AndyEsser> daveake: 70 mph on the motorway isn't speeding :)
[15:40] <daveake> I have znc on a pi here; rock solid
[15:40] <AndyEsser> just wondering if my antenna is going to be flying around on the end of it's cable :P
[15:40] <daveake> 70 is fine
[15:40] <daveake> 90 might not be
[15:40] <daveake> someone told me
[15:40] <AndyEsser> lol
[15:41] <Vaizki> there are also different "gauges" of magmount.. :)
[15:42] <SM0ULC-Reb> Autobahn certified? ;)
[15:42] <AndyEsser> yea, was just wondering what the crappy magnet on the bottom of my RTL-SDR antenna might be like
[15:43] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: stockantenna has been fine for me at about 140 kmh
[15:44] <AndyEsser> Ah cool
[15:44] <AndyEsser> thanks
[15:44] <AndyEsser> I likely wouldn't have it out on the motorway (and rely on others tracking) but can easily see doing 50/60 on a dual carriageway or something with it
[15:46] <Vaizki> AndyEsser, http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamantm/2414.html
[15:46] <Vaizki> prepare to get your roof resprayed though :)
[15:46] <AndyEsser> Yea...
[15:46] <AndyEsser> not my car
[15:46] <AndyEsser> doubt work would appreciate that ;)
[15:47] <Vaizki> I wonder if I'd get stopped with that and a X50 on the roof..
[15:47] <AndyEsser> X50?
[15:48] <Vaizki> http://www.diamondantenna.net/x50a.html
[15:48] <Vaizki> my home antenna
[15:48] <AndyEsser> ah
[15:48] <Vaizki> (yes I know it's a bad idea :)
[15:50] <AndyEsser> heh
[15:50] <AndyEsser> Part of me wants a van type thing with enough radio equipment to make NSA jealous ;)
[15:51] <eroomde> which part?
[15:53] <Vaizki> prefrontal cortex probably
[15:53] <AndyEsser> the same part that wishes I had the disposable income to support that ;)
[15:56] <Vaizki> too bad you only need a small briefcase worth of radio equipment for this.. :)
[15:57] <eroomde> when i was into habbing i sadly didn't have the disposable income (as a student) to buy a landrover to support it
[15:58] <Vaizki> I have to make do with a Lexus SUV also :(
[15:58] <Vaizki> at least I can fail in comfort
[16:02] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: i've trackd a pi-in-the-sk from 190 km with stockantenna while driving (or the wife did the driving..) :)
[16:04] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: upgrade to X510 for the car? ;)
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[16:08] <AndyEsser> I need an upgrade anyway - both times I've tried to track I've failed to receive anything at all
[16:09] <craag> Where do you live AndyEsser ?
[16:13] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: interference?
[16:13] <AndyEsser> craag: Chester
[16:13] <AndyEsser> SM0ULC-Reb: waterfall didn't show a huge amount of interface - just nothing really appeared
[16:14] <AndyEsser> only thing I've successfully done (which suggests the setup 'works') is receive my own telem from a few CMs away
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[16:15] <craag> Ah not near me then :/
[16:15] <craag> CMs?
[16:15] <craag> centimeters?
[16:15] <AndyEsser> yes, sorry, didn't mean for it to be capitals
[16:15] <craag> that would not suggest it works..
[16:15] <AndyEsser> multitasking
[16:15] <craag> Have you tried further with your own kit?
[16:15] <AndyEsser> craag: it works to the point that SDR# and dl-fldigi are configured and working
[16:16] <AndyEsser> and I can receive FM radio with the setup
[16:17] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: i might have been very lucky that day of the 190km tracking. maybe not as lucky as the ...... who launched the balloon with no clue whatsoever
[16:19] <daveake> Oh yeah. On the plus side, he did add a few new and creative methods to my list of "ways to f**k up a launch"
[16:20] <daveake> and the recovery is near the top of the luckiest
[16:20] <daey> daveake: i need details! :p
[16:20] <daveake> and at the top of the least deserving
[16:21] <daveake> It started with unwrapping the tracker 2 days before launch
[16:21] <SM0ULC-Reb> daveake: sri, wasn't meant to touch the crappy memory of those.. :/
[16:21] <daveake> and went downhill from there
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[16:22] <SM0ULC-Reb> daey: long sad story
[16:23] <daey> apparently 2 days long
[16:23] <SM0ULC-Reb> daey: and for us involved f____g annoying that one spent time to help on such a disaster
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[16:24] <AndyEsser> wait... what did I miss?
[16:25] <fsphil> those where dark days indeed
[16:25] <SM0ULC-Reb> daey: they hade two non-ok-gps-trackers.. one sky-pi what dave fixed 110% of.. they managed to power it.. that was a bit amazing.. no pre check of anyting.. payload worth about 1500 euro in cameras..
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[16:25] <daveake> prediction was for forest or lakes
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[16:25] <daveake> they hit a lake
[16:25] <daey> xD
[16:25] <daveake> a frozen lake
[16:26] <daveake> near a skater who sent it back to them
[16:26] <AndyEsser> ouch
[16:26] <daey> well better than a non frozen one i guess
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[16:26] <AndyEsser> SM0ULC-Reb: that much value to the payload and no testing?
[16:26] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: correct
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[16:26] <eroomde> i hope they now make a big an expensive orbital laser interometer
[16:26] <daey> so essentially everything was done wrong, but it turned out ok?
[16:27] <daveake> they got 1 thing right, which was to put a phone number on the outside
[16:28] <daey> and a jackpot when they managed to drop the whole thing over the head of an honest person
[16:28] <AndyEsser> daveake: how do you manage to forget to pack the balloon? :)
[16:29] <AndyEsser> wait... more importantly
[16:29] <AndyEsser> HOLY CRAP
[16:29] <AndyEsser> photo of eroomde not wearing shorts!
[16:29] <AndyEsser> he has jeans on
[16:29] <daveake> Launch site was 200m from home, so hardly mattered
[16:29] <AndyEsser> fair enoug
[16:29] <AndyEsser> enough*
[16:29] <daveake> fsphil left the payload behind once
[16:29] <AndyEsser> hahaha
[16:29] <AndyEsser> I suppose I can't really laugh
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[16:29] <AndyEsser> I guarantee I'll forget the battery, or tracker or something for my first launch
[16:29] <SM0ULC-Reb> daey: yepp. and i was on a trip with the family and knew they were flying (was kinda coahing them.. or trying to..) and put up the stockantenna on the roof of the car and to my amazement i saw signals..
[16:30] <AndyEsser> I might plan to do all these checklists and stuff
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[16:30] <AndyEsser> but when it comes to the day and it's like 6am.. I'll forget
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[16:30] <daveake> If you have a spare person, hand them the task of making sure everything gets ticked off
[16:30] <AndyEsser> daveake: Yea, that's my plan
[16:30] <daveake> Ideally someone who has no idea what the list means
[16:31] <AndyEsser> roping in my bro + his wife, and my MD (who will be on drone flying duties)
[16:31] <daveake> Then they have to ask
[16:31] <AndyEsser> daveake: :)
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[16:31] <AndyEsser> I'll need to re-iterate to the MD not to go anywhere near the balloon or payload with the drone
[16:31] <AndyEsser> I can easily see the blades hitting the balloon at like 100m....
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[16:32] <Ben-AstroSoc> 'fsphil left the payload behind once' wtf
[16:33] <Ben-AstroSoc> that being said i've left transmitters at home and only realised while at the airshow so >_>
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[16:34] <mattbrejza> we've almost forgotten to attach a payload before launch
[16:34] Nick change: Guest45016 -> nigelvh
[16:34] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: lol just see a balloon going up and then someone with the payload in their hand :P
[16:35] <mattbrejza> it was the backup tracker
[16:35] <mattbrejza> so it would be been 'right lets see where it is'
[16:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> ahaha
[16:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> oh damn thinking of backup tracker i should probably get one
[16:35] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: "Why is the balloon the same place as the car?"
[16:35] <mattbrejza> followed by http://www.tinygif.com/data/media/11/stewie-turn.gif
[16:36] <mattbrejza> (probably a better gif but meh)
[16:36] <fsphil> Ben-AstroSoc: tis true :(
[16:36] <AndyEsser> O god, the pixels!
[16:37] <Ben-AstroSoc> the guy with the payload in his hand is just http://replygif.net/i/1353.gif
[16:37] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: hehe
[16:38] <fsphil> we didn't get very far before I remembered. didn't have far to go back for it
[16:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> oh
[16:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> so it wasnt like y ep thats enough helium in the balloon
[16:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> ...
[16:38] <fsphil> lol no
[16:38] <fsphil> I always turn on and test the payload before filling
[16:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> debating whether to drop £50 on a backup tracker or just test the crap outta the one we build
[16:39] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: When are you hoping to fly, again?
[16:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> march 21st onwards
[16:39] <fsphil> a well tested tracker can still surprise you. I'd suggest a backup if you're flying anything interesting
[16:39] <eroomde> Ben-AstroSoc: test the crap out of it regardless
[16:39] <craag> I've only once released the balloon without the payload :P
[16:40] <Ben-AstroSoc> we weren't not going to test the crap out of it
[16:40] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: Do you have any specific weight restrictions other than "as light as possible"
[16:40] <Ben-AstroSoc> nope
[16:40] <fsphil> leave no crap
[16:40] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: if I happened to have my tracker built before your launch - did you want a free backup? :)
[16:40] <Ben-AstroSoc> if you're offering and want to test yours sure
[16:40] <AndyEsser> damnit... he saw through my plan ;)
[16:41] <Ben-AstroSoc> i mean
[16:41] <Ben-AstroSoc> i don't mind
[16:41] <AndyEsser> hehe
[16:41] <Ben-AstroSoc> call the flight an electronics test development platform
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[16:41] <Ben-AstroSoc> uni will lap that up
[16:41] <AndyEsser> we'll see - as it stands March 21st would be a push - but I'm hoping to do my own launch in April so need to get it done ASAP anyway
[16:41] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: ha
[16:42] <SM0ULC-Reb> Ben-AstroSoc: 50 for a picotracker?
[16:43] <Ben-AstroSoc> to be honest i haven't had the most detailed look
[16:43] <Ben-AstroSoc> some of the ones i saw weren't the cheapest
[16:44] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: will look at getting my PCB's fabricated soon (TM) and then send one over to you - if you use it great, if not, no worries :)
[16:44] <Ben-AstroSoc> sure! don't mind flying one for you if it's ready in time - we'll have plenty of room in the box for this flight
[16:44] <mattbrejza> you might find people have old trackers lying around they coudl send you and dont really care if you lose
[16:45] <mattbrejza> from the lassen + ntx2 era
[16:45] <eroomde> an ancient era
[16:46] <eroomde> they're embedded inside an intergalactic opera singer for protection
[16:46] <mattbrejza> or perhaps a rfm22b that will somehow never die
[16:47] <eroomde> like a very old person with a defibrulator constantly attached
[16:48] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: shush - trying to get him to test one of mine ;)
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[16:49] <SM0ULC-Reb> Ben-AstroSoc: if you have a small backup tracker it's not a bad idea to fasten it between big payload and chute. better signal from the antenna not landed smashed in the ground.. :)
[16:50] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: I'll get to find out whether the UX of my "code once, config many" CLI is any good :P
[16:50] <AndyEsser> ha
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[18:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13676 lookie what we found
[18:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> this thing is gonna have about 8 sensors on it at this rate
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[18:12] <SM0ULC-Reb> 8? :)
[18:12] <Ben-AstroSoc> well we were going to go with temp humidity pressure and something else but now we've found 3 in 1 we cna branch out a bit
[18:13] <mfa298> just don't use the pressure sensor for altitude calculations using the ardupilot algorithms
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[18:14] <Vaizki> Ben-AstroSoc: I don't want to burst your HAB but the pressure sensor is useless above 10km, the Rh sensor is going to show zero most of the time and temperature doesn't go low enough at -40.. :O
[18:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> i was unde the impression -40 was low enough for this sort of thing
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[18:16] <eroomde> no
[18:16] <Vaizki> well that's 10km also
[18:16] <eroomde> but measuring air temperature is hard anyway
[18:16] <Vaizki> if you want to go higher, that sensor is pretty useless
[18:16] <eroomde> 99% of people who think they're doing that are not, they're just measuring the temperature of their temperature sensor
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[18:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> are there any rated for this sort of thing or do you guys not tend to bother?
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[18:18] <eroomde> there are tonnes of things that can measure any physical parameter you want fairly accurately
[18:18] <eroomde> that's not the question
[18:19] <Vaizki> some of them even weigh tonnes
[18:19] <eroomde> the question is how far you are willing to swim away from the shore of the tiny island of maker-friendly breakout boards
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[18:19] <eroomde> to the massive continent of engineering just over the horizon
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[18:20] <Ben-AstroSoc> within reason
[18:20] <eroomde> :)
[18:20] <eroomde> for a first flight there is a lot to be said for just lobbing something on if it's easy
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> this is how you end up with eight kilo payloads
[18:23] <Ben-AstroSoc> at theend of the day all this thing has to do is collect and transmit data
[18:23] <Ben-AstroSoc> the module spec is pretty loose
[18:24] <eroomde> speaking as probably the only person in this channel who actually has experience of ending up with 8kg payloads, i disagree
[18:24] <eroomde> mass is not a passive problem caused by adding more instruments
[18:24] <eroomde> just managingmassive*
[18:24] <eroomde> whoops
[18:24] <eroomde> not a massive*
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[18:31] <chris_99> 8kg! What was on board to make it that heavy?
[18:32] <Vaizki> cold beers for the recovery crew
[18:32] <chris_99> haha
[18:32] <eroomde> actually 8kg was a mass we waved at as it flew past
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[18:32] <eroomde> on the way to about 12kg
[18:33] <chris_99> was it fancy cameras that accounted for a large part of the weight?
[18:33] <eroomde> no
[18:34] <eroomde> though there was a high speed camera
[18:34] <eroomde> it was an experimental vehicle designed to free-fall to transonic velocities, whereupon it deployed an experimental parachute whose inflation characteristics were recorded with accelerometers, gyroscopes, and a high speed camera
[18:35] <eroomde> it also had a very rugged deployable backup parachute incase the experimental one failed and it carried on into being supersonic (which would have happened)
[18:35] <chris_99> wow :)
[18:36] <chris_99> can you say how it ejected the parachute?
[18:36] <LazyLeopard> Supersonic payload descent is Not A Good Thing(tm) l)
[18:37] <LazyLeopard> Well, unless you're trying to bust bunkers, I guess...
[18:37] <eroomde> chris_99: it used explosive protractors
[18:37] <eroomde> which pyrotechnically eject a piston, which broke a shear-pin that was holding a spring-loaded lid down
[18:37] <eroomde> that allowed a spring-loaded pilot parachute to eject into the stream and pull out the experimental chute
[18:37] <eroomde> did you know i did a 45 min talk all about this at the first ukhas conf?
[18:38] <chris_99> nope, i didn't, what year was that, i'll google it
[18:38] <eroomde> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU6j49eCkF4
[18:38] <chris_99> merci
[18:38] <eroomde> fsphil: that's the fourth presentation, not the forth presentation
[18:39] <eroomde> most of the software for that project was in C infact
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[18:47] <Ben-AstroSoc> what sort of sensors do you guys default to?
[18:47] <eroomde> to measure what?
[18:48] <Ben-AstroSoc> temp/pressure/humidity/uv radiation
[18:48] <eroomde> never bother with the latter two, not interested
[18:48] <eroomde> temp, depends. air temperature perhaps a thermocouple
[18:48] <eroomde> pressure - i like omega sensors
[18:48] <eroomde> use them on the rocket rigs a lot
[18:49] <Ben-AstroSoc> not worth bothering with the other 2 then?
[18:49] <Ben-AstroSoc> we already plan on putting an NIR camera on board so i guess we'll have plenty to get on with
[18:51] <eroomde> i have not had an interest in the other two no
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[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/7/1/0/5yv6r3-l526xa-xqg5/StormdrifterIIM14CPU.png
[18:55] <eroomde> i hope it had more components on than that when you flew it
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> this was never flown
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> it came in today
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[18:56] <eroomde> oh
[18:56] <chris_99> did you get a stencil made , or can you drag solder or something all of that?
[18:56] <eroomde> better get some components on then
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[18:57] <eroomde> chris_99: that could all be hand-soldered easily
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> so far I was able to solder stuff like that
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> the SSOP-28 will be new, but with flux it won't be hard I think
[18:57] <chris_99> eroomde, cool, i've never used SMD stuff yet, i will on my next board though fingers crossed
[18:58] <eroomde> it's fine
[18:58] <eroomde> patience is all
[18:58] <chris_99> :) i watched some nice videos on drag soldering, i need to get a flux pen
[18:59] <eroomde> yes!
[18:59] <fsphil> eroomde: ta, fixed :)
[18:59] <eroomde> flex pens are brill
[18:59] <eroomde> and solder wick
[18:59] <eroomde> flux*
[19:02] <chris_99> ah so solder wick is to help desolder stuff?
[19:02] <eroomde> yes
[19:03] <eroomde> to clean up areas full of solder
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[19:03] <eroomde> e.g. if you want to replace say a resistor, you desolder it
[19:03] <eroomde> blobs will be left on the pads
[19:03] <eroomde> you want to wick the pads so that they go back to flat
[19:03] <eroomde> then re-solder
[19:03] <chris_99> ah, gotcha
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[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> board post flight https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1lke6hPHKJDN2xRTFBPOVVCT0E/view
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> still looks good
[19:07] <mclane_> cool, Glückwunsch zum erfolgreichen Flug!
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> danke :)
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[19:13] <Geoff-G8DHE-m> That long life solder paste you linked to a while back eroomde is worth investigating as well for SMD work.
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[19:22] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: that's a different pcb to those stacking ones you've been posting here for a couple of months?
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> yes, it is the missing part
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> the CPU level was faulty, this one is fixed
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> now the stack will be able to work for the first time
[19:22] <mclane_> what kind of cpu did you use?
[19:22] <eroomde> right
[19:23] <eroomde> there is some room for soldering practice :p
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> atmega644P
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> but I am thinking of putting an 1284P on this one
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> as the chassis is the same
[19:24] <eroomde> i can see the 'let's rest the iron on this terminalbloc- oh shit!' above the crystal
[19:24] <eroomde> and also some kind of war crime has occured to the left of the ISP header
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[19:25] <mclane_> did you use the cutdown?
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> I replaced the quartz once and then hit that block with the iron
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> the other thing was an attempt to solder a BMP180 to the board
[19:27] <mclane_> ah that is tricky
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> and cutdown was used but although both cutdowns seem to have actuated, the balloon stuck to the payload
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> we don't know why yet
[19:29] <mclane_> do you have a hot air solder station? I cannot imagine to solder a bmp180 csp with an iron
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[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> by now I got an Ayoue 852A+
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> which eugen used today to salvage two motherboards btw
[19:33] <mclane_> that should do the job
[19:33] <mclane_> but you need veeeeery little amount of solder paste
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> http://shop.wiltec.info/product_info.php/language/EN/info/p2966_AOYUE-Int720-Infrarot-Loet-Station---fokussiertes-BGA-Loetsystem.html Cool!
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[19:35] <mclane_> if you have the money...
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> I didn't try to solder a QFN with the hot air station yet because after that desaster I ordered some BMP180 breakouts
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> then months later I got the station for xmas
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> the next QFN was SHT21 which may not be soldered by hot air due to the sensing element
[19:52] <Ben-AstroSoc> idk if i'm looking in the right section but these omega pressure sensors cost £££££
[19:52] <Ben-AstroSoc> ideally wanted something we could implement with I2C with 0-some fuss
[19:57] <Ben-AstroSoc> tempted to bung some sensors off sparkfun on it and record what we can
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[19:59] <Ben-AstroSoc> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/9418 one guy got this to work (which goes down to -25) so might be better to take our chances
[20:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> started reading into serial multiplexing and noped out of there
[20:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> deal with that some other time
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[20:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RADBUG-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RADBUG-1
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[20:42] <criticalmass> Evening all
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[20:49] <fsphil> evenin'
[20:50] <mattbrejza> Ben-AstroSoc: id probably work on doing 1 or 2 sensors really well than 5-6 half -arsed
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[20:58] <criticalmass> I'm just looking at the sketch from my 'borrowed' tracker board. Never coded before and none of it makes any sense :-)
[21:00] <criticalmass> Think I might have to start with some flashing LEDs and work my way up
[21:00] <fsphil> nothing wrong with a flashing LED :)
[21:06] <AndyEsser> took a little diversion to my planned launch site after dropping the gf off
[21:06] <AndyEsser> good access
[21:06] <AndyEsser> not great phone reception
[21:08] Action: SM0ULC-Reb is spoiled by living in Sweden. 2/3/4G almost everywhere.
[21:10] <AndyEsser> SM0ULC-Reb: wales has yet to decide to enter the 21st Century :)
[21:11] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: mm, better wait until 5G, so more promising!
[21:12] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: 2G-edge is fine if there's coverage.. :/
[21:13] <AndyEsser> Which is what I get
[21:13] <AndyEsser> 5 bars of Edge
[21:13] <AndyEsser> which should hopefully be enough at least for IRC and pushing to habitat
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[21:21] <criticalmass> Anyone know much about gps breakout boards?
[21:21] <Upu> a little
[21:21] <criticalmass> ahaha
[21:22] <criticalmass> Upu: I think you might be the person I need to talk to ;-)
[21:25] <AndyEsser> Anyone available to provide some input into a temperature sensor I'm looking at and understanding how it works?
[21:25] <adamgreig> don't ask to ask
[21:26] <criticalmass> The board I'm building was designed for the MAX-M8C breakout, but by the looks of it only the MAX-M8Q is stocked now. Is the uBLOX MAX-M8Q a FFF replacement for the M8C?
[21:26] <Upu> 8C is stocked
[21:26] <criticalmass> oooh, ok
[21:26] <Upu> but they are drop ins either will work
[21:26] <AndyEsser> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1792507.pdf
[21:26] <AndyEsser> adamgreig - apologies :)
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[21:28] <criticalmass> Upu: So if I ordered a uBLOX MAX-M8C it will come with the 8C fitted?
[21:29] <Upu> do you mean the chip antenna breakout ?
[21:29] <adamgreig> AndyEsser: do you have a question about it?
[21:30] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: I'm trying to figure out how the charactistics change with temperature (presumably the resistance changes some amount between -50 and +150 C)
[21:30] <AndyEsser> but I don't see anything on that datasheet about it
[21:30] <AndyEsser> just appears to be package and ordering info
[21:30] <adamgreig> so my first question is why you're using an RTD
[21:30] <AndyEsser> Why not?
[21:30] <adamgreig> compared to, say, a cheap digital temperature sensor
[21:30] <AndyEsser> hmm
[21:30] <criticalmass> Upu: I think I'm getting a bit confused (nothing new there). On the page for the 8C breakout, it has this statement: NOTE THE VERSION OF THIS BOARD IN STOCK DOESN'T HAVE THE MAX-M8C FITTED THEREFORE IT WILL BE SUPPLIED WITH A MAX-M8Q.
[21:30] <adamgreig> it's more expensive, more difficult, and you probably don't benefit from the increased accuracy
[21:30] <adamgreig> there are a lot of ways of measuring temperature
[21:31] <adamgreig> cheap ways include measuring p-n junctions, and shitty thermistors (the p-n is quite alright really)
[21:31] <adamgreig> thermocouples and RTDs are 'better' ways
[21:31] <Upu> oh yeah I should change that
[21:31] <adamgreig> you can read all about how RTDs are used, but the basic gist is that its resistance is linear with temperature and besides that it's down to you to measure its resistance and calibrate it
[21:31] <AndyEsser> ah ok - gotcha
[21:32] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: so suggest I use something like this?http://uk.farnell.com/ist-innovative-sensor-technology/tsic-306-to92/sensor-temp-digital-0-3deg-c-to92/dp/2191827
[21:32] <adamgreig> the digital sensors are like, you talk to them over one-wire or i2c or something, adn they tell you a temperature in degrees C
[21:32] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[21:32] <AndyEsser> hmm
[21:32] <adamgreig> the DS18B20 is a very popular choice among HAB enthusiasts
[21:32] <Upu> check it now criticalmass
[21:32] <AndyEsser> a full IC just to get the 'board' temperature seems excessive
[21:32] <mattbrejza> i was thinking of using long (~15cm) bit of thin wire (~50um) or so as an RTD
[21:32] <mattbrejza> never got round to it
[21:32] <adamgreig> AndyEsser: it's usually really very small
[21:32] <adamgreig> what microcontroller are you using though?
[21:32] <adamgreig> almost all modern microcontrollers have a temperature sensor inside them anyway
[21:32] <adamgreig> connected to an adc channel or some such
[21:32] <AndyEsser> Yes, the AVR 328p does
[21:33] <adamgreig> so just use that?
[21:33] <AndyEsser> But I'm trying to avoid switching the ADC Ref constantly
[21:33] <adamgreig> how often do you plan to measure the board temperature?
[21:33] <AndyEsser> o0o the DS18B20 has a TO220 package
[21:33] <AndyEsser> err.. TO-92
[21:33] <criticalmass> Upu: Thank you, that's better :-)
[21:34] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: haven't thought too much about that - probably somewhere between onc every 1 - 10 seconds
[21:34] <adamgreig> I mean even to-92 is ginormous, you get temperature sensor ICs that are about 2mm by 2mm
[21:34] <adamgreig> so I would just use the one on the AVR
[21:34] <adamgreig> it's already there
[21:34] <adamgreig> it costs nothing, no board space, no more soldering, no new things to fail
[21:34] <AndyEsser> true
[21:34] <AndyEsser> fair enough
[21:34] <AndyEsser> shall just do that
[21:34] <adamgreig> it's perfectly servicable given a one point calibration
[21:34] <AndyEsser> if I want proper temp sensing at some point it'll be separate sensor board on the Sensor Bus
[21:35] <adamgreig> what is your sensor bus?
[21:35] <AndyEsser> Magic(TM)
[21:35] <AndyEsser> 4-pin bus, probably either just using I2C or a variation of
[21:35] <AndyEsser> 0v, +v, Data, Clock
[21:36] <adamgreig> "i2c" was what i was looking for
[21:36] <adamgreig> it works but... why
[21:37] <adamgreig> depends what you're putting on it etc I suppose
[21:37] <AndyEsser> well, personally, I'd rather roll my own
[21:37] <AndyEsser> but many things come with i2c built in
[21:39] <adamgreig> rolling your own is quite the endeavour unless you plan on using fpgas and cplds etc :P
[21:39] <adamgreig> I mean, it's always quite the endeavour
[21:39] <adamgreig> if you are interested in how RTDs work you can read the wikipedia page btw
[21:39] <adamgreig> but they're really not what you want for measuring board temperature on a hab I wouldn't think
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[21:44] <criticalmass> AndyEsser: I'm using a couple of DS1820 on my tracker. One board mount and one external.
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[21:54] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: nope - that's fair enough - I have no idea what I'm doing, but Farnell seemed to have more RTDs than other kinds so thought they were the most popular
[21:55] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: also apologies - got pulled away
[21:55] <AndyEsser> criticalmass: would recommend?
[21:56] <criticalmass> AndyEsser: Don't know yet, still building the board. It seemed to work OK for the guy who designed it.
[21:56] <AndyEsser> cool
[21:56] <AndyEsser> Not looking for something perfectly accurate - might do something fancier for a dedicated set of temperature readings in the atmo at various altitudes
[21:57] <AndyEsser> but for just an on-board "Holy frak the payload is a bit warm/cold" I'll use the on-board 328p temperature sensor
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[21:57] <adamgreig> measuring atmo temperature is a science onto itself btw
[21:58] <adamgreig> it's very difficult to not actually measure the temperature of your sensor board
[21:58] <AndyEsser> Yep - fully appreciate that :)
[21:58] <AndyEsser> I know that eroomde has many things to say about measuring the atmosphere/environment in question vs the senosr
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[22:02] <Vaizki> RTDs? sheesh talk about overkill :)
[22:02] <Vaizki> are you also powering with RTG? :)
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[22:03] Nick change: Crashdroid_ -> Crashdroid
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[22:03] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: mini Fusion reactor :)
[22:04] <gonzo_nb> Mr Fusion?
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[22:06] <Vaizki> nothing wrong with ds18b20s tbh.. they are factory calibrated, easy to interface with and come in ampackage that is easily bonded to stuff you want to measure
[22:07] <Vaizki> thermocouples are faster and nice but you need opamps and cold junction measurement and whatnot
[22:07] <Vaizki> calibration curves and the lot
[22:08] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: also, rolling my own interface/protocol is something I'm definitely up for doing sometime :)
[22:09] <AndyEsser> but it'll likely be some variation of I2C or similar
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[22:11] <Vaizki> arr you trying to fly a balloon and find it or build a computer? :)
[22:12] <AndyEsser> technically both :P
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> measuring T is one of the oldest problems of scientific ballooning
[22:14] <criticalmass> Close
[22:14] <criticalmass> Closely followed by pressure.
[22:14] <adamgreig> measuring pressure is really easy in comparison
[22:14] <adamgreig> you don't accidentally measure the pressure of your sensor
[22:14] <AndyEsser> I'll fob that problem off onto the actual scientists - I'll just try my best to launch and recover the payload :P
[22:15] <criticalmass> The only chip I can find that's anywhere near suitable for vacuum is £50 all in.
[22:16] <adamgreig> depends what you really mean by vacuum and etc
[22:16] <daveake> Was looking at watches yesterday, and read this question re a model with barometer:
[22:16] <daveake> "Is there anyone out there that knows how to make the pressure reading, once set, stay at that particular reading rather than it changing as your altitude changes? Cheers!"
[22:16] <adamgreig> lol
[22:17] <adamgreig> down to 10mbar is readily available
[22:17] <AndyEsser> daveake: were they trying to get a temperature reading at a specific altitude and then keep it, rather than relaying via telemetry etc?
[22:17] <adamgreig> though even then £50 isn't too bad as it goes
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[22:17] <adamgreig> AndyEsser: it's a watch..
[22:18] <AndyEsser> O derp - missed the watch bit
[22:18] <AndyEsser> haha
[22:18] <fsphil> they might need a bigger watch
[22:18] <adamgreig> none of my watches have telemetry though I realise that is probably why I'm always so unsatisfied
[22:18] <daveake> And someone who should probably stick to "just a watch"
[22:18] <adamgreig> actually I guess my watch probably does have telemetry lol
[22:18] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: My watch has telemtry :)
[22:18] <AndyEsser> telemetry*
[22:18] <daveake> Not written a HAB app for it yet?
[22:18] <AndyEsser> daveake: tempted for my launch
[22:19] <AndyEsser> ping me with GPS/Altitude co-ords
[22:19] <AndyEsser> (rather than use the watch on a HAB)
[22:20] <criticalmass> This is the one i want to use: http://sensing.honeywell.com/product-page?pr_id=141630
[22:21] <criticalmass> Sorry, being distracted by zombies :
[22:21] <AndyEsser> hehehe
[22:21] <AndyEsser> *sniggers at appearance*
[22:21] <adamgreig> nice, the trustability ones are quite gucchi
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> TruStability sensors are awesome
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> but if you only want baro...
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> then sensortechnics are better
[22:21] <adamgreig> I guess I mean gucci
[22:21] <adamgreig> yea ^
[22:22] <AndyEsser> on a less filthy minded pov.. this also springs to mind
[22:22] <adamgreig> it's kind of way overkill for normal barometric measurements
[22:22] <AndyEsser> http://www.clker.com/cliparts/f/x/y/r/f/g/cartoon-virus-hi.png
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> TrueStability are perfect if you want to make a pitot sensor
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> GE Healthcare have made lung volume measurement devices using honeywell sensor based pitot tubes in a respirator mask
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[22:25] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb_: Quick q about your rockoon.. are you launching straight up?
[22:26] <criticalmass> Pitot sensors, of course. I'll see if there's any a spare AFCS computer lying about in the hanger at work I can rob.
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> AndyEsser: yes
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[22:27] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb_: at the moment of balloon burst? or will the rocket burst the balloon as it leaves?
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> rocket flies past the side of the balloon
[22:28] <AndyEsser> So it can't be launched straight up? Or am I missing something?
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> the Estes spin up motor gives it some horizontal velocity
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> so it flies sideways for ~400ms then starts accelerating upwards
[22:28] <AndyEsser> Ah ok
[22:28] <AndyEsser> quite a long train between platform and balloon?
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> no, only about 8m
[22:29] <AndyEsser> that counts as "quite long" in my books ;)
[22:29] <AndyEsser> hehe
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> 8m seems to be optimal for minimal pendulum oscillation
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> people have flown with considerably longer trains
[22:29] <fsphil> I usually have 10m between balloon and payload
[22:29] <AndyEsser> Is that based on your current payload weight? or does that not factor into the pendulum effect?
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> it factors in a little
[22:30] <AndyEsser> fsphil: but.. but... that's 10m less you can claim on a altitude record :)
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> its horribly complex, still not sure if I've modelled it correctly
[22:30] Action: AndyEsser mounts payload above ballooon
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> a larger, lighter payload is slightly better
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> as the air damps it, but not as much as you might expect
[22:31] <AndyEsser> fair enough
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[22:31] <Laurenceb_> as it also picks up more wind force
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> payload train length seems to have a considerably influence on oscillation tho
[22:31] <AndyEsser> Hmm ok
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> there seems to be an optimal length, but I'm basing this on models fitted to flight data from only a few payloads
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> no actual experiments
[22:32] <AndyEsser> I'm wondering if it's worth me modelling to try and reduce rotation/pendulum
[22:32] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb_: cheers for the info
[22:32] <AndyEsser> I'd love to work on a rockoon crossing the Karman line at some point so keeping a close eye on your stuff :P
[22:33] <Ian_> AndyEsser, beware seeking the A class answer to the B class question, in terms of temp and other things :)
[22:34] <Ian_> Make your wins a step at a time rather than a large fall.
[22:34] <AndyEsser> I excel at large falls :P
[22:34] <Ian_> :) obviously no answer to that then
[22:35] <AndyEsser> :P
[22:35] <criticalmass> Laurenceb_: Can you recommend a Sensortechnics chip with i2c output?
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> criticalmass: a baro sensor?
[22:35] <Ian_> Once you have a launch under your belt the bragging rights can write off subsequent failures as just bad luck ! Plausible deniability
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> AndyEsser: annoyingly work is taking all my time atm :-/
[22:36] <AndyEsser> Ian_: ha! true!
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> I forget the part number for their best baro, but its what everyone is using lol
[22:37] <AndyEsser> guess that's a case for launching the simplest possible payload/setup possible :P
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> there was one on UBSEDS-13
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> note that it seemed to die once it got <-50C
[22:37] <adamgreig> ms5611?
[22:37] <adamgreig> that's measspec not sensortechnics tho
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[22:47] <criticalmass> Laurenceb_: Yep, baro
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> arg yeah
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> and then there is FirstSensor
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> I'm confused now
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[22:48] Action: criticalmass flexes the cc and goes for the pitot probe
[22:50] <Ian_> Pitot tube for altitude?
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> FirstSensor make these babies
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> http://www.first-sensor.com/cms/upload/datasheets/DS_Standard-LDE_E_11815.pdf
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> micro thermal flowmeters :D
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> 50mPa offset error lol
[22:52] <Ian_> Orientation will affect it enormously and ascent/descent will give big errors, as well as being non-linear do to density of atmosphere, surely?
[22:52] <Laurenceb_> it will be non linearish to density yes
[22:53] <Laurenceb_> but I doubt orientation is very significant
[22:53] <Laurenceb_> as its a MEMS thermal sensor viscous effects will be very strong
[22:53] <Laurenceb_> so little convection
[22:55] <Ian_> Well, if it happens to be pointing down as the HAB falls lickity spit, then unless you have lost GPS altitude, then it won't be telling anything you don't know already?
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[22:56] <Ian_> This is in relation to criticalmass and his pitot tube, not your sensor Laurenceb_, just in case there is any confusion
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[22:56] <Laurenceb_> oh got you
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[22:56] <Ian_> I guess there was . . . :)
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> yeah I dont see how a pitot is that useful on a balloon :D
[22:57] <Ian_> Don't MEMS devices start to suffer badly at altitude ?
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> it does seem to maybe be the case anecdotally
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> probably low temperature thermal expansion effects
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[22:58] <Laurenceb_> well - mismatched CTE
[22:59] <Ian_> I guess those little MEM gonads will feel the cold somewhat.
[23:01] <criticalmass> In theory, an aircraft pitot sensor is differential, using both dynamic and static pressure to calculate forward air speed at varying altitudes. If I were to block the dynamic side, I could use the static input as a barometric sensor.
[23:01] <criticalmass> I'd also need a 28vdc power supply and a bigger balloon.
[23:02] <Ian_> It does seem to be a bit of overkill. Even snagged from a vortex it's going to be a little above it's normal operating ceiling :)
[23:03] <Ian_> Men in white hats knock at the door
[23:03] <Ian_> Acting unpaid of course!
[23:05] Action: criticalmass claims ignorance and gives the SAC scuffers a damn good listening to
[23:09] <criticalmass> Ian_: Just so you know, even if I wanted to strip down a CH47 AFCS computer for a pitot sensor (which also contains 2 static sensors, so I'm not sure it would be my first choice) I don't think I'd get away with it. The little Thales engineer would get set upon by all the Boeing engineers pretty quickly.
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[23:11] <Ian_> Let's not let the detail get in the way of a riske story though!
[23:12] <Ian_> It would need to be a Mericun HAb for the 28V battery
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[23:15] <criticalmass> The 24V battery on a Chinook is only 14 A/h... But a little bulky.
[23:15] <Vaizki> that's small? :O
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[23:17] <criticalmass> Yeah, it doesn't do a lot really.
[23:17] <criticalmass> Engines are all started hydraulically.
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[23:18] <criticalmass> I'm hitting the sack, night all.
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[23:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03bernius_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=bernius_chase
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[00:00] --- Tue Feb 16 2016