highaltitude.log.20160205

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[07:05] <Vaizki> Goooood mooorniiiiing!
[07:05] Action: Vaizki sounds the Reveille
[07:07] <Avi> 6pm
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[07:09] <Vaizki> yX¨ RœXRb o‡ šœX šimX¨ bown unbX R¨ RlwRy¨ :)
[07:10] <Vaizki> ooops
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[07:14] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: hello
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[07:34] <SA6BSS-Mike> ps-58 on its 37-38 days in air it must have a record in slowest moving balloon ever!!
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[08:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Pirror_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Pirror_chase
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[08:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hi_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hi_chase
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[09:08] <AndyEsser> Morning
[09:25] <R34lB0rg> good morning people
[09:27] <Upu> morning
[09:34] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Morning
[09:35] <R34lB0rg> do you think we will see picoballoons sending pictures in 10 years?
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[09:42] <Vaizki> no, in 2 years
[09:43] <craag> The tech is there for it to happen now
[09:43] <craag> *the tech is on my desk for it to happen now
[09:44] <craag> but work probably wouldn't look favourably on me losing a board up a tree/across europe ;)
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[09:48] <AndyEsser> craag: "Field Tests"
[09:50] <craag> :D
[09:50] <AndyEsser> "Field and Tree Tests"
[09:51] <craag> Hah
[09:52] <fsphil> R34lB0rg: probably this year
[09:52] <SpeedEvil> Sending pictures is easy
[09:52] <SpeedEvil> the problem is recieving them
[09:52] <fsphil> yeah it's not going to happen over HF from the middle of the ocean
[09:53] <craag> yeah not realistic for floating balloons I think
[09:53] <craag> *floating picos
[09:53] <SpeedEvil> It's - perhaps not - quite at the point that the best way to get pictures of the world is to drive under the balloon and command it to drop
[09:53] <SpeedEvil> but - it's not very far from that
[09:53] <fsphil> floating picos should be fine, but limit the images part until over a populated area
[09:54] <SpeedEvil> Taking pictures at 'moderate' (sub-meter) resolution of the ground track should be 'easy'.
[09:54] <AndyEsser> need to hurry up and get the UKHAS network of satellites into orbit for balloon comms
[09:54] <craag> extra power budget would be tricky
[09:54] <AndyEsser> :)
[09:54] <SpeedEvil> Getting that gigabyte or twenty of data down is decidedly not
[09:54] <craag> you've got the camera power, then the extra power to send more data down
[09:54] <craag> latter would be more significant
[09:54] <fsphil> camera only needs to be active for a few moments
[09:55] <fsphil> it won't be very many images :)
[09:55] <fsphil> mcu ram will limit that
[09:55] <fsphil> external ram seems to be quite power hungry
[09:55] <fsphil> SD card is an option I guess
[09:56] <SpeedEvil> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00DR590OM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=A2QBPBC148VCN1
[09:56] <SpeedEvil> :)
[09:56] <SpeedEvil> also
[09:56] <AndyEsser> fsphil: as a buffer?
[09:56] <AndyEsser> rather than long-term storage
[09:56] <AndyEsser> (or both even)
[09:56] <SpeedEvil> http://www.gearbest.com/memory-cards/pp_246127.html
[09:56] <SpeedEvil> I've got this on order
[09:56] <fsphil> nah, long-term. take a few images over the ocean, save on SD card
[09:56] <AndyEsser> forces recovery
[09:56] <fsphil> transmit when over receivers
[09:56] <craag> hah the ar9331 SpeedEvil ;)
[09:56] <SpeedEvil> In principle, you could attach a usb micro-camera to this, and it's got a little processor
[09:57] <SpeedEvil> power of course is another thing altogether
[09:57] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: I have been idly wondering about optical
[09:57] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: optical mesh would be awesome.
[09:57] <SpeedEvil> Even if you limit it to 'slow' speeds of a meg or three
[09:58] <fsphil> needs tricky/heavy optics does it not?
[10:00] <fsphil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_mesh_network#/media/File:All-optical_switching.svg
[10:00] <fsphil> cool
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Weeel
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: If you limit it to several meg a second, and 'modest' beamwidths, things get a bit more tractable
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> and quite high LASER powers
[10:01] <fsphil> hehe, "limit" to megabits
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> Quite
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> Most of the 'proper' proposals want to do many, many gigabits
[10:05] <mfa298> if the balloon is flying at ~10km you just need to get it to hook up with a passing planes wifi.
[10:05] <mfa298> or try for a variation on https://www.flexport.com/blog/the-internet-is-powered-by-airplanes/
[10:05] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: :)
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> heh
[10:06] <Vaizki> oh look there's a faraday cage with wifi inside approaching at 1000km/h, let's assoc... gone.. dammit
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> That reminds me of me thinking of a venture to transport usenet over the pond
[10:10] <AndyEsser> "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway."
[10:13] Action: mfa298 wonders if it makes a difference if thats a 10TB He filled drive or a 10TB SMR drive
[10:13] <mfa298> going for the modern hard drive variation instead of tapes
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> AndyEsser: Fill capsules with microSDs. The bandwidth of the gut exceeds a gigabyte a second, comfortably
[10:16] <AndyEsser> "comfortably"
[10:16] <AndyEsser> hehe
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> Perhaps comfortably is not the right word.
[10:21] <R34lB0rg> a near space network of receiving stations would be nice
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> quite
[10:21] <R34lB0rg> big floaters with sdr radio and downlink
[10:22] <R34lB0rg> no, make that bidirectional
[10:22] <R34lB0rg> if the balloon/blimp/airship can steer itself to hold position a laser link should be possible
[10:23] <SpeedEvil> steering isn't really useful, if you have GPS and a low bandwidth link
[10:25] <R34lB0rg> i'm thinking pseudo-satellite for receiving signals over the horizon
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[10:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RPF-A2 after 039 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-A2
[10:30] <R34lB0rg> "polar obsorpsion" is this very bad spelling of absorption or something different?
[10:33] <R34lB0rg> SpeedEvil, a receiver at 30km altitude would be pretty much above urban interference
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[10:37] <SpeedEvil> urban interference?
[10:38] <fsphil> when karl urban starts messing with your stuff
[10:38] <R34lB0rg> interference from the urban environment with street lights, electronics, radio stations,...
[10:38] <SpeedEvil> Oh - I thought it was Pope Urban.
[10:38] <SpeedEvil> R34lB0rg: yes - that's not really relevant
[10:38] <SpeedEvil> The problem is generally not urban interefernce - it's signal-noise and bandwidth issues
[10:39] <AndyEsser> fsphil: damnit... beat me too it
[10:39] <SpeedEvil> Urban inteference clearly doesn't help
[10:39] <AndyEsser> Doom was such an under rated mvoie
[10:39] <AndyEsser> movie*
[10:39] <SpeedEvil> I have the Doom book somewhere
[10:39] <fsphil> Not as under rated as Dredd. which was amazing
[10:39] <SpeedEvil> (picked it up at the second hand store, not read)
[10:39] <AndyEsser> fsphil: o0o forgotten about new Dredd
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[10:40] <fsphil> it's very good. I can't even remember the old one now
[10:40] <AndyEsser> might need to acquire Dredd this weekend
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[10:49] <Flutterbat> dredd is awesome
[10:50] <Flutterbat> sadly it completely failed in the cinemas. but it had a stellar disc sale afterwards
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[12:22] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-11 after 0313 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
[12:24] <Avi__> what a mess
[12:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RPF-A1 after 039 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-A1
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[12:42] <Kryczek> 9 days silence?!
[12:49] <craag> It'll be testing, so it's just 9 days since it was last tested in online mode
[12:49] <Kryczek> ah :) thanks
[12:50] <Avi__> *dont even know how the whole system works*
[12:54] <craag> Avi__: Ask a question and someone will answer :)
[12:54] <SM0ULC-Reb> the UBSEDS13 declerad gone?
[12:55] <Avi__> well how does it work, not eveyone just has a radio reciever in the back garden....how is it tracked
[12:56] <fsphil> by the people who do have a radio receiver :)
[12:58] <gonzo_> don't they?? What sort of people are these?
[12:58] <fsphil> I know right
[12:58] <SM0ULC-Reb> Are there any pics of how the "system" works? Never seen one.
[12:59] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ua21FSnIXc
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[13:00] <fsphil> beyond that it goes into the habhub bits. there be dragons
[13:00] <fsphil> and python
[13:00] <AndyEsser> *shudder*
[13:00] <craag> Avi__: So if you want to track your payload, then you have a radio receiver that receives the signal, and then a bit of software that converts the signal to GPS co-ordinates, as seen in that video.
[13:01] <craag> We've modified our own version of the software to also upload the gps co-ordinates to 'habitat', a database of flight telemetry
[13:01] <Avi__> how is it working world wide though
[13:01] <Avi__> cant be just the 1 guys reciever
[13:02] <craag> So anyone can run the software, receive the gps position, and upload it.
[13:02] <craag> (with a radio receiver)
[13:02] <AndyEsser> habhub is a distributed network - there's a surprising number of people with receivers around the world
[13:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP6NVB-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
[13:02] <Avi__> oh
[13:02] <craag> We've had 100+ people receiving across europe before
[13:02] <craag> (polish flights..)
[13:03] <AndyEsser> Avi__: what country are you based in?
[13:03] <Avi__> australia
[13:03] <craag> Do you know Darkside ?
[13:03] <Avi__> no
[13:03] <craag> K, he does launches out of one of the cities in Aus
[13:04] <Avi__> oh ok
[13:04] <Avi__> i dont really know anyone
[13:04] <craag> http://rfhead.net/
[13:05] <craag> Adelaide
[13:05] <SM0ULC-Reb> Avi__: check the tracker page, you see active receivers
[13:05] <fsphil> the PS flights are using HF frequencies, which helps it be tracked worldwide as they tend to travel much further
[13:05] <Avi__> Adelaide
[13:05] <Avi__> i see
[13:05] <craag> Your best bet is to hit up local ham radio clubs
[13:06] <craag> They're most likely to have the kit to receive, and are often keen to try receiving something new!
[13:07] <SM0ULC-Reb> Avi__: wher do you live?
[13:07] <Avi__> melbourne
[13:08] <craag> Darkside also seems to have a good handle on the HABing legislation and stuff out there if you're not familiar with it
[13:08] <SM0ULC-Reb> Avi__: i guess you have seen? http://picospace.net/
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[13:21] <Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_vIszsybR4M
[13:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hr_v_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hr_v_chase
[13:23] <Avi__> very spirally
[13:24] <Avi__> spectrum lab!
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[15:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KK6ZXH-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6ZXH-11
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[16:14] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:14] <Lunar_Lander> we got a flight doc 0f8d6565488f88b280db22fc3863fe36 :)
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[17:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03default_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=default_chase
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[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> hmm 12Z prediction increases downrange distance by 50 km
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> hope it will be better again
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[18:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-58 after 0312 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-58
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[19:16] <fsphil> it really doesn't want to make land again
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[19:39] <Lupus_sat> Hi All! Could you tell me how to add our own balloon (test period at present time) on http://tracker.habhub.org? I would like to test of telemetry parsing. And how to delete it after tests?
[19:39] <R34lB0rg> it took a look at africa and went back over the sea
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[19:39] <R34lB0rg> Lupus_sat, ask on #habhub
[19:39] <Lupus_sat> Thanks
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[20:12] <SA6BSS-Mike> Lupus_sat: http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[20:13] <SA6BSS-Mike> there you can ad a flight doc, get gps lock of your trackefr and upload so you see your balloon on http://tracker.habhub.org/
[20:13] <SA6BSS-Mike> no need to eraze, dont think you can anyway do that anyway
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[20:30] <Vaizki> add a payload doc you mean
[20:31] <SA6BSS-Mike> he is getting all the support he needs in the habhub channel, yeh, right, payload doc
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[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> it's interesting how massively flight predictions change
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> 12Z for our 12th feb. reserve date was about due south-east
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> 18Z now is almost directly due north
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[23:47] <Laurenceb_> http://www.aerofiles.com/langley-wood.jpg
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[00:00] --- Sat Feb 6 2016