highaltitude.log.20160204

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[00:52] <amell> UBSEDS13 never reappeared?
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[01:09] <Laurenceb_> amell: apparently it might have been locked out by the aprs geofence
[01:09] <amell> aww. so close.
[01:09] <Laurenceb_> seems to be much more heavily restricted than leos flights
[01:09] <amell> Hopefully UBSEDS14 will be soon
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[01:10] <Laurenceb_> it only seemed to have used <50% of the battery
[01:10] <Laurenceb_> so who knows maybe it could still reappear
[01:10] <amell> thats crazy
[01:12] <Laurenceb_> well it reached >1.5v at 18C over the US on the day before
[01:13] <Laurenceb_> so arguable no noticeable energy consumption
[01:13] <amell> nuclear fusion battery perhaps?
[01:13] <Laurenceb_> I guess it makes sense - its using sirf and the radio is so heavily geofenced its hardly ever on lol
[01:13] <Laurenceb_> its only using a few milliwatts
[01:14] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
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[03:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03marcos2j_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=marcos2j_chase
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[09:05] <AndyEsser> o/
[09:07] <R34lB0rg> good morning people
[09:13] <Oddstr13> morning
[09:18] <bobsaget> morning? its evening here
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[11:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BERKOHAB - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BERKOHAB
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[13:23] <Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9ODMVdoWXM
[13:26] <mattbrejza> looks like a fire waiting to happen
[13:29] <AndyEsser> giant oven made of wood....
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[13:36] <fsphil> it'll only burn the first time
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[13:50] <gonzo_> using all the cooker electrics seems an odd way. Just wiring all in parallel and putting one stat on it
[13:51] <gonzo_> (and buying heater elements, rather than whole cookers?
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[14:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03o rahman_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=o%20rahman_chase
[14:12] <Ian_> Example, how much does the cheapest Arduino Uno clone cost? what is the cost of the Mcu chip from, say, Farnell? So, probably cheaper to buy cookers rather than cooker components
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[14:16] <fsphil> still think an avr chip wlil be cheaper than a dodgey arduino clone
[14:17] <craag> You'd hope so. Unless they're using fake avrs too..
[14:18] <mattbrejza> the new avrs are half hte price of the orginals which is nice
[14:19] <craag> is there anything worse about them?
[14:20] <craag> ah no DIP
[14:20] <mattbrejza> tbh though, most breadboarding is done with breakout boards anyway
[14:21] <craag> mm
[14:21] <mattbrejza> so its just bad if you like to solder through hole ones in pcbs
[14:21] <craag> new+breakout is probably cheaper :P
[14:21] <Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SxC_KTR3q5w
[14:22] <Miek> £2.18 for an arduino pro micro clone vs £3.63 for the atmega32u4 on it :D
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[15:08] <mfa298> just need a breakout board the size of the dip package with matching pin-out
[15:09] <mattbrejza> they exist i thought..?
[15:09] <mattbrejza> perhaps with a bonus crystal and programming header
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[15:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W5NAC-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W5NAC-11
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[15:40] <ipswich> Can anyone suggest a suitable cheap radio receiver?
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[15:42] <mfa298> ipswich: that could depend a bit on what budget you have and suitable for what
[15:43] <mfa298> a cheap rtl-sdr stick is good for testing and trying to track other peoples flights, you may not want to rely on it for your own flight though
[15:44] <ipswich> mfa298: Thanks, this is our first flight and we are on a tight budget, we are looking for a receiver to track it
[15:45] <ipswich> mfa298: we have had a look at sdr, they are cheap but how much would a suitable receiver cost
[15:46] <mfa298> if you want a good physical receiver then something like the FT790 (hard to get hold of) or FT817 (probably around £400) are good
[15:46] <mfa298> there are some scanners around that may be suitable (I don't have much experience of them)
[15:47] <mfa298> rtlsdr + habamp might give something decent or something like airspy or FCDPP are better SDR receivers
[15:48] <ipswich> mfa298: Thanks, we will probably have to go for a better SDR receiver as we do not have £400 to commit to that
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[15:50] <mfa298> the benefit of things like the FT790 and FT817 is they keep their value. I bought my FT817 6 or 7 years ago for a similar price
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[16:27] <fsphil> the 817's value will drop very quickly when it's successor is released. (which at this rate is never, so safe enough)
[16:29] <Oddstr13> I'd say get a RTL-SDR in addition to whatever else you decide on
[16:29] <Oddstr13> allways nice to have a few of those around :P /me should get some more
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[16:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 037 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
[16:58] <SM0ULC-Reb> fsphil: when is the successor supposed to be released? (to the 817)
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[17:04] <fsphil> at this point I wouldn't be surprised if yaesu hadn't even started developing one
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[17:06] <fsphil> I bet a new company could be formed and have a released product ready before they have one on sale
[17:06] <fsphil> (of course now that I say that, one will be announced within the week ;)
[17:07] <SM0ULC-Reb> :)
[17:10] <SM0ULC-Reb> a bit amazing/sad nothing has happened in 12 years since the ND version
[17:12] <Avi> so...i want to do a low altitude balloon on a 100m string, with a camera, any tips?
[17:13] <adamgreig> "don't"
[17:14] <adamgreig> in a light breeze it will be 100m sideways and at ground level
[17:14] <adamgreig> use a blimp instead
[17:14] <Avi> why would it be at ground level
[17:14] <mattbrejza> also >60m needs a NOTAM in the uk
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[17:16] <Avi> if i use a 90 cm baloon it should have 200-400g of pulling force
[17:16] <Avi> i think
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[17:25] <SpeedEvil> It will in almost all cases be ridiculously sideways
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[17:42] <Avi> hm
[17:49] <R34lB0rg> Avi, I love the ide to use airships / blims as camera platform
[17:49] <R34lB0rg> +p
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[17:50] <R34lB0rg> best way at the moment is to make it neutrally boyant and add at least 3 thrusters/props for steering
[17:56] <Ian_> SM0ULC-Reb Major development. Yaesu have started putting DC blocking capacitors around their ceramic IF filters, to stop them going bad. That's happened in the last two years
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[18:14] <fsphil> too late for my 857
[18:16] <Avi> sounds expensive
[18:16] <Avi> well, at least compated to what i was gonna do
[18:18] <Avi> 5am, must sleep, bbl
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[19:10] <chris_99> I'm just wondering anyone who's used a Si4463 chip @ ~433MHz/868MHz (just on the ground, rather than a balloon), what kind of max distance you got (whether line-of-sight, or not). I'm going to play around with my modules tommorow hopefully
[19:11] <nats`> Totally depend on modulation
[19:11] <nats`> If you do narrow band fsk you can get pretty good distance
[19:11] <nats`> But have alignment problem
[19:12] <chris_99> oh? i didn't think 2/4-FSK would effect the max distance?
[19:13] <chris_99> i mean, i thought it'd get the same distance with either 2 or 4-FSK
[19:13] <Vaizki> narrow band can be 2 or 4-fsk
[19:14] <chris_99> so either should give the same distance?
[19:14] <nats`> In theory yes
[19:14] <nats`> But 2fsk will be better
[19:14] <nats`> Less symbol interference
[19:14] <chris_99> sorry, what does narrow band mean though?
[19:15] <chris_99> is that GFSK?
[19:21] <nats`> Nop
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[19:21] <nats`> It means occjpied bw
[19:21] <nats`> Like 1kHz 2FSK
[19:22] <chris_99> ah ok, gotcha
[19:22] <nats`> If you dont care about en300220
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[19:22] <nats`> Take 2fsk and not gfsk
[19:22] <nats`> On the silab don't go up to msk
[19:22] <nats`> Get a ratio just a little lower than msk
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[19:26] <chris_99> Gotcha, i'll have to look into what MSK is, as i'd not heard of that before. Out of interest, you should get roughly the same bitrate with 2-PSK as 2-FSK right?, is one more immune to noise than the other?
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[19:34] <chris_99> hmm apparently you can compare by 'calculating the probability of a bit error given the bit energy vs. noise energy (Eb/No)' according to SO, where BPSK wins apparently
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[19:36] <adamgreig> it Depends
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[19:37] <adamgreig> BPSK wins on Eb/N0, but 2FSK isn't always worse
[19:38] <mattbrejza> coherent fsk is 3dB worse, and non-coherent 3dB again?
[19:38] <adamgreig> yea
[19:38] <kc2pit> But all anybody ever calculates is Eb/N0 under additive white Gaussian noise. If anybody ever finds additive white Gaussian noise being the dominant contribution on an ISM band, let me know.
[19:38] <adamgreig> fsk does better if you are limited by Eb but not B though
[19:38] <adamgreig> that is also true^
[19:38] <adamgreig> though honestly, I think it's a good approximation for good equipment tracking a balloon
[19:39] <adamgreig> iirc you're mostly limited by thermal noise at the receiver
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[19:43] <kc2pit> That's surprising, at least for 434 MHz in a not-that-rural area. I remember reading about typical antenna temperatures from urban noise, and I think it was still in the thousands of K for freqeuncies like that in suburbia. And that was old data, in a world with far fewer switching power supplies and CPUs.
[19:44] <kc2pit> Gets better at higher frequencies and lower population density, obviously, ISM bands excepted.
[19:44] <adamgreig> yea
[19:46] <kc2pit> I could track down that document and check my numbers, but laziness.
[19:48] <adamgreig> I think I'm talking about not-that-urban with a yagi pointing at the payload
[19:48] <kc2pit> That would help, yeah.
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[20:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-58 after 0312 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-58
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[20:22] <Vaizki> yeay
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[20:40] <R34lB0rg> who started PS-58?
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[20:46] <SA6BSS-Mike> R34lB0rg: VK3YT, Andy Nguyen
[20:47] <SA6BSS-Mike> there is a video of a videoconferance at ukhas conferance last August where he shows the tracker
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[20:51] <R34lB0rg> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0TMYaONQSs
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[20:51] <R34lB0rg> probably this?
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[20:58] <mfa298> */win 24
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[21:03] Nick change: Crashbone|Away -> Crashbone
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[21:33] <SA6BSS-Mike> R34lB0rg: yes thats the on, starts 4min in
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[22:08] <eroomde> https://twitter.com/iamdevloper/status/695358042385358848
[22:10] <chris_99> hehe
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[22:21] <chris_99> i keep meaning to play this http://vim-adventures.com/ to improve my poor vim skills
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[23:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-11 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
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[23:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP6NVB-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-12
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[23:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP6NVB-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-12
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[00:00] --- Fri Feb 5 2016