highaltitude.log.20160202

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[00:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03sasnak_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=sasnak_chase
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[02:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W7XK/P_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W7XK%2FP_chase
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[04:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03CLIFTON1 after 0316 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CLIFTON1
[04:44] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-60 after 0310 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-60
[04:44] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VK3YT-11 after 039 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK3YT-11
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[05:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03gven2222_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=gven2222_chase
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[07:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SKRUFFY - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SKRUFFY
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[08:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ZS5LT-9_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ZS5LT-9_chase
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[08:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03garym_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=garym_chase
[08:37] <fsphil> busy map
[08:37] <gonzo_> a party going on?
[08:49] <AndyEsser> morning
[08:54] <AndyEsser> I really need to get on with designing the PCB for my tracker :(
[08:55] <AndyEsser> but still so much prototyping to do.. trying to avoid just 'winging' it
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[08:58] <fsphil> you can do both. get the schematic finished, using the prototype to sanity test it
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[08:59] <AndyEsser> hmm, true
[08:59] <AndyEsser> need to hurry up and write/test code for SD Card and IMU
[08:59] <AndyEsser> then I'll feel happier
[08:59] <AndyEsser> and can finish up the layout and send off to get it made
[09:01] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/ILyYUvI - Clouds. Made in scotland, from girders.
[09:02] <fsphil> a few photos of that from near here too. I missed it :(
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[10:09] <AndyEsser> Do people here just use the SPI interfaces on SD cards, typically?
[10:11] <craag> Unless your microcontroller can drive the SDIO interface, yes
[10:12] <AndyEsser> Ok, cheers
[10:12] <AndyEsser> will get a card reader and a fresh card, and hook it up to my prototype board and get some code written to read/write FAT32 from an SD card
[10:12] <craag> :)
[10:12] <fsphil> adding an SPI interface was quite smart of them
[10:12] <AndyEsser> that'll be the bare minimum then that I want prototyped for my tracker - ideally I'd like to have an IMU of sorts and prototype that, but not sure on time
[10:13] <craag> next flight ;)
[10:13] <daveake> The infamous second flight :p
[10:13] <AndyEsser> Yea, but that means designing and building yet another board
[10:13] <AndyEsser> but I will no doubt have to do that anyway because something will pop up that means it needs a fix or something
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[10:15] <AndyEsser> FINE!
[10:15] <AndyEsser> second system
[10:15] <AndyEsser> :P
[10:16] <craag> he's learning :)
[10:17] <AndyEsser> ¬¬
[10:17] <AndyEsser> I've not been able to touch any of this stuff in weeks :( Other than getting the hardware timers working last week (or week before, can't remember)
[10:17] <AndyEsser> need to start finalising code and designs and stuff if I want to have any hope of launching _soon_ (TM)
[10:29] <AndyEsser> LiPo's are trickery to create charging circuits for, I believe?
[10:29] <AndyEsser> tickier*
[10:29] <AndyEsser> o ffs
[10:29] <AndyEsser> trickier*
[10:30] <craag> Yes, although there are simple ICs that will handle it for you
[10:30] <AndyEsser> ok cheers, shall investigate
[10:31] <craag> max1555 is one I've used
[10:31] <AndyEsser> ta muhcly
[10:31] <AndyEsser> omg
[10:31] <AndyEsser> I should just stop typing today
[10:33] <AndyEsser> seems to make sense to fit a simple charging circuit onto the board to allow easier in-place charging, and potential for solar panels at a later date :)
[10:36] <mfa298> from what others have said, doing FAT filesystems on a uC can lead to a lot of code, using the SD card as a raw block device might be easier (although then requires more work to read off afterwards - although that's where your serial CLI could be useful)
[10:39] <craag> You can fit it in a 328 with some care (ie not using arduino libs for everything else under the sun)
[10:41] <AndyEsser> craag: I don't touch arduino libs with a barge pole anyway :)
[10:42] <AndyEsser> mfa298: I had thought that trying to do something like FAT16/FAT32 might be a bit bloaty - and I have code elsewhere from my own filesystem stuff from a few years ago that should fit reasonably well onto the 328 - so will just experiment and see
[10:42] <AndyEsser> writing a simple enough windows driver, or linux script, for reading it then on a host PC would be simple enough as well
[10:42] <AndyEsser> Also, question to the floor
[10:42] <AndyEsser> I have a uBlox MAX-M8C for GPs
[10:43] <AndyEsser> using the i2c (two-wire) interface for communication
[10:43] <AndyEsser> I want to be able to test with hardware-in-the-loop and basically attach a cable from my PC or something onto the inputs to the uC from the GPS to simulate the ublox
[10:43] <mattbrejza> mcp78381something is the othe charger ic (like 30p on farnell)
[10:43] <AndyEsser> my first thoughts would be just a simple jumper on each wire, take it off to plug my cables in, and in the process breaking the circuit to the MAX
[10:44] <AndyEsser> but then worried about the jumpers coming lose during flight etc
[10:44] <SpeedEvil> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00DR590OM - if you're feeling silly about SDs.
[10:44] <mattbrejza> just glue them before flight :P
[10:44] <SpeedEvil> you can put a LUA script in it to parse a mailbox into a proper filesystem
[10:44] <AndyEsser> wireless lan sd card....
[10:44] <SpeedEvil> Or just use the pins as GPIO to read sensors and GPS
[10:45] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: that is a far simpler suggestion than I was expecting...
[10:45] <AndyEsser> haha
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> https://flashair-developers.com/en/documents/api/lua/
[10:45] <AndyEsser> half expected some convulated circuit that when adding the jumper, somehow disconnected the GPS etc
[10:45] <AndyEsser> but... glue... I hadn't thought of that
[10:45] <mattbrejza> or something like sodler jumpers on the back
[10:45] <AndyEsser> ha
[10:46] <Darkside> sodler...
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[10:47] <mattbrejza> its too early for tpying.//
[10:47] <daveake> self-supporting post :)
[10:47] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: agreed
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[10:48] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/20001984g.pdf <- this IC?
[10:48] <mattbrejza> yea
[10:49] <AndyEsser> cheers
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[11:16] <AndyEsser> http://www.eadyn.co.uk/overview-of-electronics-system-for-flight-computer/
[11:16] <AndyEsser> woo - finally have a list of actual requirements for the tracker :)
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[11:18] <daveake> "Do tracking and stay working" the end :-)
[11:19] <gonzo_> is that a hab tracker?
[11:20] <gonzo_> if so, LiPo batts are not good at low temps.
[11:21] <gonzo_> and if it it st be considered a disposable item, is the code once bit, imnportant.
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> AndyEsser: https://xkcd.com/534/
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> Especially important for HAB
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[11:24] <fsphil> lipo might be fine for up-down flights,
[11:24] <fsphil> as long as it's well insulated
[11:25] <fsphil> not sure what magic Leo did for making them last longer in the cold
[11:26] <AndyEsser> SpeedEvil: hehe SkyNet HAB :)
[11:26] <fsphil> isn't habhub already skynet :)
[11:26] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: he got special cold-rated ones.
[11:26] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: I was planning on the payload being well insulated - and I had thought that LiPo's were the battery of choice here, but I'm open to suggestions?
[11:26] <AndyEsser> fsphil: UKHASnet maybe :P
[11:26] <SpeedEvil> AndyEsser: do you want to recharge?
[11:26] <AndyEsser> yes
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> In flight?
[11:27] <craag> Lipos are fine for up/down as long as they're insulated, and slightly overbudgeted (you should be doing that anyway)
[11:27] <AndyEsser> daveake: don't ruin my magic :(
[11:27] <craag> and don't charge them in flight...
[11:27] <AndyEsser> SpeedEvil: potentially - I'd like the possibly of maybe being able to just stick a solar panel array on and voila :)
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[11:27] <AndyEsser> ^ ( appreciate it's not quite as simple as that)
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> Li-po can't really be charged under several C
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> which means that charging them becomes annoying as you have to preheat.
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> This isn't in principle hard - but adds complexity
[11:28] <AndyEsser> what would be a better battery type to go with?
[11:28] <AndyEsser> NiMH?
[11:28] <craag> NiMH lose all capacity in the cold
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> there is no good solution if you want chargable at altitude
[11:28] <fsphil> super cap. which are sadly too big for this
[11:29] Action: AndyEsser gets a really really really long cable
[11:29] <AndyEsser> I'm happy to sacrifice the charging capability at low temps for capacity at temp
[11:29] <AndyEsser> s/at temp/at low temp
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> energizer lithium AA or similar
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> 1.5V AA lithium
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> great capacity, light, works great at low temps
[11:30] <garymortimer> Afternoon all, well thats my first one lost. But I was close!! Its just too hot to keep looking. 16096 for a pawan 100 was a surprise
[11:30] <fsphil> nice
[11:30] <fsphil> and not so nice
[11:30] <garymortimer> remind as I forge the place to pull a KML from, looking at stats but can't see it
[11:30] <garymortimer> forget not forge...
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> yay! (at getting close)
[11:30] <fsphil> http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
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[11:31] <AndyEsser> SpeedEvil: cheers - was trying to avoid AA form factor - I liked the LiPo because they came in flat square packages, but will look around
[11:31] <garymortimer> Thanks and thanks, I had packed up teh laptop and was going home, heard one last burst of RTTY then nowt. I suspect somebody picked it up
[11:33] <gonzo_> Is the need to recharge for PV or just between flights?
[11:33] <garymortimer> The school children where happy thats the main thing
[11:33] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: the primary use of recharge is between flights - but I was hoping that it might be simple enough to maybe use solar to recharge during flights if there was ever a need for it
[11:33] <craag> mission success then garymortimer :)
[11:34] <AndyEsser> (from the looks of things that adds a horrible bit of complexity) - so if the need arises, I'll manufacture a new power system for the payload that is designed for it
[11:34] <gonzo_> replacing some AA lintium energisers each flight should be easy enough?
[11:35] <AndyEsser> true, was kind of hoping to avoid that - just pop the lid, stick a cable in, wait a bit, and voila
[11:36] <gonzo_> I suspect that the size of pv that you can put on a HAB, will not be powerfull enough to need a complicated charge cct
[11:36] <AndyEsser> I haven't designed the enclosure yet, and unsure how easy it'll be to access the battery etc once assembled
[11:37] <gonzo_> pop lid, put new batts in, tape them up (so they don't pop out on landing) and off you go
[11:37] <gonzo_> I expect that weight/capacity, primary bhatts will always win over rechargeables (but hgappy to be corrected here)
[11:38] <gonzo_> don't bank on beinmg able to recover
[11:38] <gonzo_> treat it as a bonus
[11:38] <AndyEsser> O I don't - everything I ever let go is already written off :)
[11:38] <AndyEsser> "If you love something, set it free"... and maybe track it down and chain it back up
[11:39] <gonzo_> a basic tracker does not have to fly far before the cost of fuel exceeds the value. Apart from the fun of chasing
[11:40] <craag> fun of chasing is nearly always worth it though
[11:40] <AndyEsser> ^
[11:40] <gonzo_> mine are about £50 of bits. That equastes to about 50miles of flight. So I usually just let them go and go home for a cuppa
[11:40] <craag> *nearly*
[11:40] <craag> ;)
[11:40] <daveake> :)
[11:40] <AndyEsser> all depends on payload and stuff as well
[11:40] <AndyEsser> I would like to recover my maiden flight (mainly just to test recovering...) but at the same time
[11:40] <AndyEsser> it's the most expendable
[11:40] <craag> yes
[11:41] <daveake> btw I'm pleased with the head torch ... it's as bright as the huge trustfire thing I've got
[11:41] <craag> I think you'll be fine with lipo
[11:41] <AndyEsser> craag: and drop the recharge in flight requirement?
[11:41] <craag> Just aim on it lasting at least 12 hours nominally
[11:41] <craag> yes
[11:41] <AndyEsser> just have a simple circuit to recharge in-situ by the usb port or something
[11:41] <gonzo_> I did manageg to use my first tracker tyhree times. But that was more due to failed flights and a close landing
[11:41] <craag> Yep, that'd be neat
[11:42] <AndyEsser> craag: cheers - looking forward to assembling it all, sticking it in the freezer, and see how long it lasts :)
[11:42] <craag> just remember to warm the lipo up when you get it out before trying to charge it ;)
[11:42] <AndyEsser> heh
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[11:42] <AndyEsser> do they go bang? or just not work?
[11:42] <gonzo_> what do they do if cold charged?
[11:42] <gonzo_> snap
[11:42] <craag> chance of bang/fire
[11:43] <AndyEsser> nice :)
[11:43] <AndyEsser> that'll warm them up
[11:43] <AndyEsser> haha
[11:43] <fsphil> ruins the innards
[11:43] <craag> best case you'll probably ruin the capacity as phil says
[11:43] <AndyEsser> so, apart from the obvious over-complication... that list of requirements doesn't seem unobtainable?
[11:43] <gonzo_> you probably want to keep all the electronics and batt together in the enclosure, to keep the thermal mass up.
[11:44] <craag> Looks good to me AndyEsser
[11:44] <craag> Next step is to start specifying numbers
[11:44] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: current plan is to basically have the PCB sitting above the battery (with or without something in-between, unsure yet)
[11:44] <craag> eg. must run over 15h nominally
[11:44] <AndyEsser> craag: Yea - I'm torn between which order to run those numbers
[11:45] <AndyEsser> I mean in theory it's possible for me to attempt to calculate the usage from the datasheets and stuff
[11:45] <AndyEsser> but I'm wondering if I just design the PCB, build it, test it
[11:45] <AndyEsser> and if needs be, add a second battery
[11:45] <craag> calculate from datasheet first
[11:45] <AndyEsser> (and then whether or not to add the 2nd charging circuit into the PCB now, or wait until I've found I need it)
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[11:46] <craag> don't have to do it too deeply, but get an idea of nominal/worst-case current draw
[11:46] <AndyEsser> craag: is it worth me calculating things like power usage of passives, LEDs, etc as well as the 'big' stuff?
[11:46] <craag> LEDs will add to it
[11:46] <AndyEsser> or just AVR/Ublox/LEDs and have a suitable margin of error
[11:46] <craag> probably take more current each than the GPS if you use pwoersaving lol
[11:46] <craag> avr/ublox/leds/radio
[11:47] <craag> regulator quiescent current
[11:47] <AndyEsser> o yea... radio
[11:47] <AndyEsser> ;)
[11:47] <AndyEsser> This sounds like a job for..... AN EXCEL SPREADSHEET
[11:47] <AndyEsser> *plays fanfare*
[11:47] <craag> :)
[11:47] <craag> Also have you got an input to read battery voltage?
[11:48] <AndyEsser> So... I started playing around with doing that with my prototype board, the internal 1.1v reference on the AvR
[11:48] <AndyEsser> and one of the Analgoue inputs
[11:48] <AndyEsser> but never got it to before properly
[11:48] <AndyEsser> I need to revisit it
[11:48] <AndyEsser> but reading battery voltage is definitely something I want in
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[11:48] <AndyEsser> "never got it to work before"*
[11:48] <craag> Yes you'll want it :)
[11:49] <AndyEsser> Yea
[11:49] <craag> nice about primary cells is that you get them out of an unopened pack put them in, and youy know you have ~15h without checking
[11:49] <craag> you won't have that - so need to check you've charged it ;)
[11:49] <AndyEsser> Heh yea :)
[11:49] <AndyEsser> will be putting together a whole pre-flight checklist and equipment list as well befor elaunch
[11:50] <AndyEsser> before launch*
[11:50] <AndyEsser> and making sure I tick everything off as I load it into the car
[11:50] <AndyEsser> including all suitable backups
[11:50] <craag> :)
[11:50] <AndyEsser> second balloon, second parachute
[11:50] <AndyEsser> second flight computer
[11:50] <AndyEsser> second sets of batteries
[11:50] <AndyEsser> blah blah blah
[11:50] <AndyEsser> :)
[11:50] <craag> yes have that lipo on a connector so you can swap out with another cell before launch if needed
[11:51] <AndyEsser> yea, was thinking some sort of molex type thing
[11:51] <AndyEsser> like you have with RC cars
[11:51] <craag> sounds great
[11:52] <craag> second flight computer is more than most people tend to take
[11:52] <AndyEsser> well since I'll likely be ordering the PCB's in a quantity of about 5ish
[11:52] <mattbrejza> you dont really want to have to swap though, rather plug both in during setup then unplug the external one and let go
[11:52] <AndyEsser> it's no big deal to make sure I have another one with me
[11:52] <craag> k :)
[11:52] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: that was another thing I wanted... being able to power externally whilst setting up etc
[11:52] <AndyEsser> and just unplug external power with no reset etc
[11:52] <craag> your usb idea would do that
[11:53] <AndyEsser> yea
[11:53] <craag> jsut remember to unplug the laptop before letting the balloon go ;)
[11:53] <AndyEsser> that'd be impressive if it took my laptop with it
[11:53] <AndyEsser> and... kind of toying with the idea of using my tablet...
[11:53] <daveake> Also, people tend to forget about the chase side of things ... e.g. making sure your laptop/tablet/phone/MiFi are all charged up, wit spare batteries or 12V car chargers
[11:53] <AndyEsser> simple application on there to read status, set config etc :)
[11:53] <craag> +1 for car inverter+4way
[11:53] <AndyEsser> Yep, already looked at car inverters
[11:53] <craag> I have one that lives in my front footwell
[11:54] <craag> v useful
[11:54] <craag> android tablet?
[11:54] <AndyEsser> I do believe my boot has a cigarette lighter so can do all the config/setup in a nice big space there, then move everything to the front seat etc for the chase
[11:54] <AndyEsser> craag: yea
[11:54] <craag> YOu can use matt's app on that then
[11:54] <daveake> Matt's Android app is great, and you can use that whiilst walking if you have a portable radio or scanner
[11:54] <craag> with offline mapping
[11:55] <AndyEsser> for the chase? Yep - I already have an app on my phone for chasing
[11:55] <craag> also for recovery
[11:55] <daveake> His does decoding and mapping
[11:55] <craag> works v well when up a welsh hillside
[11:55] <AndyEsser> but on top of that would quite like an app on the tablet/phone to interface direct with the computer to check status before launch and stuff etc :)
[11:55] <AndyEsser> craag: that's good :)
[11:55] <AndyEsser> I'm not sure which app it is I have
[11:55] <daveake> Handy for (for example) chasing your payload across a golf course after it got nabbed by golfers
[11:55] <AndyEsser> two secs
[11:56] <AndyEsser> It's just called "Chase Car Tracker"
[11:56] <daveake> nah you want "hab tracker and modem" or something like that
[11:56] <AndyEsser> How does it receive the RTTY?
[11:56] <fsphil> audio in through a special cable, or mic
[11:56] <daveake> So it does the decoding and mapping, nbot just the upload of your position to the server
[11:57] <daveake> yeah mic works surprisingly well
[11:57] <AndyEsser> Ah ok - so still need my SDR dongle or whatever, and then just pump the output of that into the phone/tablet
[11:57] <fsphil> yeah
[11:57] <daveake> Well an SDR dongle will need a laptop
[11:57] <fsphil> it's possible to use the rtlsdr dongle on android too
[11:57] <craag> It'll then plot where the balloon is, and where you are, on OSM maps, without needing an internet connection
[11:57] <daveake> But a scanner or radio can plug right in
[11:58] <fsphil> but not from the hab tracker as yet. feature request there mattbrejza
[11:58] <fsphil> :)
[11:58] <daveake> :)
[11:58] <mattbrejza> 'not from the hab tracker'?
[11:59] <fsphil> would be a neat setup actually. phone > otg cable > [dongle + habamp in box] > antenna
[11:59] <fsphil> decoder app*
[11:59] <mattbrejza> oh sdr
[11:59] <AndyEsser> certainly save a bunch of space
[11:59] <mattbrejza> missed that bit
[11:59] <daveake> AndyEsser, Things do tend to fail a lot when chasing. For one we ended up in a place without even phone coverage let alone 3G, and the car satnav hadn't a clue where we were. Ended up using paper maps
[11:59] <fsphil> there are apps that can use the dongle, but I've no idea how easy/difficult it is to do that in android
[11:59] <mattbrejza> id have to arse around with c on android and usb and stuff for that
[11:59] <mattbrejza> but it is doable
[11:59] <fsphil> java can't use usb devices?
[12:00] <SpeedEvil> I have run fldigi on my pnoe
[12:00] <SpeedEvil> - nokia n900
[12:00] <craag> not like you have a phd or anything to do mattbrejza ;)
[12:00] <AndyEsser> fsphil: you've never done android dev, have you
[12:00] <SpeedEvil> In principle I could have connected a dongle to it
[12:00] <fsphil> nope. I get as far as trying to setup a java dev environment, then delete it all an anger
[12:01] <AndyEsser> hehe
[12:02] <AndyEsser> getting really excited for my first launch again now :)
[12:02] <AndyEsser> Need to pull my finger out and finish up the tracker/code/etc
[12:03] <AndyEsser> Then work out the whole NOTAM stuff :)
[12:03] <SA6BSS-Mike> u could eather buy a sheap Stabo XR or YUPITERU that does ssb on uhf or just but a cheap windows tablet eather one should not cost more then 80 pounds
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[12:07] <AndyEsser> need to come up with a test plan for the hardware and software as well
[12:07] <AndyEsser> I have too much to do :(
[12:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> data transmission is 50 baud, right? or 300?
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[12:07] <fsphil> whichever you like
[12:08] <Ben-AstroSoc> was just wondering if there was a standar
[12:08] <garymortimer> 50 is normal, 300 for SSDV
[12:08] <fsphil> 50 is very common, but there's probably not much need to go that slow
[12:08] <Ben-AstroSoc> looking at using an ATmega328 driven at 8MHz
[12:09] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: That's what I use (actually slightly slower clock)
[12:09] <garymortimer> Back from a school run, first of the day looked at where is was likely to go and certainly in the toooo hard folder. It was 37 when I stopped and only gets hotter. First one I have lost, 8th flight
[12:09] <AndyEsser> and have successfully gotten it to do up to 600
[12:10] <fsphil> I'd probably go with 100 baud if I was sending just text
[12:10] <Ben-AstroSoc> how low can you clock it down before it stops working well?
[12:10] <Ben-AstroSoc> we're only sending text,yes
[12:11] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: do you have a need to drop the clock speed below 8MHz?
[12:11] <Ben-AstroSoc> nope, just havent worked out power consumption for everything yet
[12:13] <Ben-AstroSoc> not that i'm expecting 8MHz to be a problem
[12:14] <mfa298> SA6BSS-Mike: I managed to get sdr# and dl-fldigi running on a £50 Linx 7 windows tablet, so even cheaper. Only downside is you can't (at least not easily) charge it with a USB device plugged in.
[12:15] <mfa298> although if using windows ensure you've done updates the night before !
[12:15] <fsphil> any half way good proper-linux tablets?
[12:16] <mfa298> I think some people have tried installing linux on some of the windows ones, although I'm not sure how well they work
[12:18] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: at 50 baud, the pulses at 20ms long, so you should be able to do a calculation based on how many instructions you're using to change the output and how long the pulses are to arrive at a bare minimum clock speed - however I'd suggest not trying to get to the absolute minimum
[12:18] <garymortimer> whats the best height for a small balloon like Pawan 100 to date??
[12:18] <fsphil> interrupts ftw
[12:19] <AndyEsser> fsphil: yes, but if it takes longer than 20ms to switch the pin outputs then that doesn't really matter ;)
[12:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> i'm not expecting power draw to be that big - how much current do CPU + GPS + radio module tend to pull? (or better question, how many L91s do you tend to find you need)
[12:19] <fsphil> you can toggle a pin on the avr in one cycle :)
[12:20] <AndyEsser> fsphil: yes, but you need to read the bit of the current byte (and the associated index variables/registers to know which bit you're on)
[12:20] <AndyEsser> I admit, 20ms to toggle an output would be horrendously terrible code ;)
[12:20] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: this is something I will be calculating myself over the next few days
[12:20] <AndyEsser> what GPS and Radio module are you using?
[12:21] <Ben-AstroSoc> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=68
[12:21] <Ben-AstroSoc> and the NTX2b or whatever it's called
[12:21] <Ben-AstroSoc> was recommended it here
[12:21] <fsphil> I just shift the current byte and toggle the output based on the LSB that gets shifted out
[12:22] <AndyEsser> hmm, shifting might be more efficient than what I currently do... might have to revisit that
[12:23] <fsphil> https://github.com/ProjectSwift/swift/blob/master/rtty.c
[12:24] <fsphil> includes my foolish attempt at doing a half stop bit
[12:24] <AndyEsser> heh
[12:25] <fsphil> hmm,, some of the comments are misleading
[12:26] <AndyEsser> fsphil: http://pastebin.com/YrBUuUGi
[12:26] <AndyEsser> my RTTY char send function
[12:26] <AndyEsser> (still with software timers in though - tis old code)
[12:27] <fsphil> apart from the busy-wait that's fine
[12:27] <AndyEsser> The busy-wait?
[12:27] <AndyEsser> As in my software timers?
[12:28] <fsphil> assuming CURRENT_WAIT is a delay loop?
[12:28] <AndyEsser> it goes off into the _delay_ms(x); routine provided by the <avr/timer.h> include
[12:28] <AndyEsser> which I presume just does a loop
[12:28] <Ben-AstroSoc> CURRENT_WAIT woul dbe how he's setting his baud rate right? making sur i'm keeping up
[12:28] <fsphil> the nice thing about the interrupts other than the accurate timing, is you can do other things while a string is being sent
[12:29] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: yes, it's a define for something like
[12:29] <AndyEsser> _delay_ms(20); // 50 Baud
[12:30] <fsphil> I've tried to make it so by the time a string is sent, the next one is already ready to go
[12:30] <AndyEsser> that seems like an emminently sensible idea :)
[12:30] <fsphil> so there's no wasted radio time
[12:30] <AndyEsser> do you just transmit constantly?
[12:30] <fsphil> yeah
[12:30] <fsphil> the interrupt will send 0x00 if there is no new data, so fldigi can still track it
[12:31] <gonzo_> even if not sending data, it';s best to leave the TX on, helps fldigi keep lock
[12:31] <AndyEsser> I keep EN on, and constantly send a STOP bit effectively currently
[12:31] <Ben-AstroSoc> so spam 0s if no string?
[12:32] <AndyEsser> I did have it disabling EN during sentences, but that made a mess of dl-fldigi
[12:32] <AndyEsser> not during, between
[12:32] <fsphil> fldigi won't track it unless there is some characters
[12:32] <fsphil> but it doesn't print 0x00 so works well
[12:32] <gonzo_> nulls are not spam. They are the best chr to send to get lock
[12:32] <fsphil> and that ^
[12:33] <Ben-AstroSoc> made a note of that, didn't think aboout dead radio time
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[12:33] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: even if you only send sentences every 10seconds or something
[12:33] <AndyEsser> keep the EN pin of the NTX2B pin enabled, and TX high (which will simulate a stop bit)
[12:33] <AndyEsser> I've had good success with that
[12:33] <gonzo_> if you get bit errors, the async nature of rtty means that it can take a few chrs of data to get sync again. But nulls will get sync quicker than anythiung else
[12:34] <AndyEsser> additionally, as fsphil suggested, just send a string of 0x00
[12:34] <Ben-AstroSoc> right, so 0x00 if no string ready to go
[12:34] <gonzo_> suggest that you hard wire the EN pin, rather than to an IO pin. That way the TX will stay on even if you lose the processor,
[12:35] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: my logic behind being able to set the EN pin was so that the uC could disable the Radio if I needed to at some point
[12:35] <AndyEsser> I have a plan for a backup solution for if the computer dies :)
[12:35] <gonzo_> also the NTX2 may continue txing even whyen the batt V drops (may, depends on your cct)
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[12:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> hopefully we'll have enough batteries >_>
[12:35] <AndyEsser> just send up a car battery :)
[12:36] <gonzo_> ahm the US approach
[12:36] <Ben-AstroSoc> aimingto launch this thing 1-2 weeks from 21st march so
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[12:36] <fsphil> powering MCU, GPS and NTX2B for a day isn't too bad :)
[12:36] <gonzo_> keep it simple and robust. Rather than try and be too clever early on
[12:36] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah we're doing bare minimum
[12:36] <fsphil> 6x AAs ran run my Pi payload for over 24 hours
[12:36] Action: AndyEsser proceeds to ignore gonzo_'s comment and plan is mac-daddy computer :)
[12:37] <Ben-AstroSoc> one of my uni modules is the deisng + build of the system for this
[12:37] <AndyEsser> his*
[12:37] <gonzo_> adding flexability is ok, but not if that adds failure modes
[12:37] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: what uni?
[12:37] <Ben-AstroSoc> aston
[12:37] <AndyEsser> ah... b'ham
[12:38] <AndyEsser> I need to go and scout my launch site sometime soon
[12:38] <AndyEsser> wonder if I can convince the gf that it'll be a "fun day out in wales"
[12:38] <AndyEsser> :)
[12:38] <gonzo_> check the proximity of a supply of bacon butties to site
[12:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> not thought too hard about where we're going to launch this yet
[12:38] <Ben-AstroSoc> i suppose i need to in a few weeks
[12:39] <AndyEsser> Feel free to pop over to wales and use the field I'm planning - that way I can see if there is an obvious problem before I launch
[12:39] <AndyEsser> haah
[12:39] <Ben-AstroSoc> :^)
[12:39] <fsphil> lol
[12:39] <fsphil> "sadly it turned out to be full of wolves"
[12:39] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: I shall be taking a bunch of bacon butties with me - but shall hunt out a cafe or something
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[12:39] <gonzo_> if you can find a launch site that has been used before, it increases the chance of gettiong a notam (if you are needing one)
[12:40] <gonzo_> self sufficiency in bacon is good
[12:40] <Ben-AstroSoc> i'll ask around and see where other people have launched i guess
[12:40] <Ben-AstroSoc> hopefully it wont be too windy late march (crosses fingers)
[12:40] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: sadly most of the common sites are a fair trek from me
[12:40] Action: fsphil has never had bacon at a launch :/
[12:40] <gonzo_> thesae doomsday preppers never buy in stockpiles of bacon. Silly boys
[12:40] <AndyEsser> but if the site I've chosen is good - then will plan to do a number of launches from there
[12:40] <daveake> fsphil ^ hence all those lost payloads
[12:40] <AndyEsser> hahaha
[12:40] <fsphil> yes. I have been wondering :)
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[12:41] <AndyEsser> fsphil: please stay away from my launches
[12:41] <AndyEsser> you have bad karma
[12:41] <AndyEsser> ;)
[12:41] <fsphil> lol
[12:41] <gonzo_> or repent and bring bacon
[12:41] <AndyEsser> ^
[12:41] <AndyEsser> right - speaking of
[12:41] <AndyEsser> lunch time
[12:41] <AndyEsser> bakc in a bit boyos
[12:41] <fsphil> if I try launching one your way, I'll ensure bacon on my side
[12:41] <AndyEsser> tie a bacon sarnie to the payload :)
[12:41] <gonzo_> it's better between your teeth than on your side
[12:42] <gonzo_> we have pie in the sky, now it's pigs will fly !
[12:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> spending rest of today working out how to get proteus to simulate a GPS receiver - might have to bodge something
[12:43] <gonzo_> nmea or native format?
[12:43] <Ben-AstroSoc> err, don't know
[12:43] <gonzo_> nmea you can do with hyperterm if pushed
[12:44] <gonzo_> just play out strings
[12:44] <Ben-AstroSoc> we were expecting to find out the format the module pushes out and just make up data in that format to tes it
[12:44] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah
[12:46] <Ben-AstroSoc> expecting to be able to simulate the other sensors etc without too much issue
[12:48] <Ben-AstroSoc> the GPS pushes out continuous sentences on one pin, right? you watch for the $ when you read it
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[12:50] <gonzo_> that sounds like nmea
[12:50] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah
[12:51] <gonzo_> there are half a dozen sentences, all starting $GPxxx
[12:51] <gonzo_> choose one(s) that has the data you need
[12:51] <Ben-AstroSoc> right
[12:52] <Ben-AstroSoc> $GPGGA seems to be the popular one
[12:52] <Ben-AstroSoc> aright this shouldn't be too har
[12:52] <Ben-AstroSoc> cheers
[12:52] <gonzo_> yep, that's got pretty much all you need
[12:53] <gonzo_> there is a checksum on the end, but I ignore that. No point testing something you can't do anything about
[12:54] <Ben-AstroSoc> i'm thinking working out how to code I2C and setting up GPS and sensors will be the haredst bit here so will get working on that soon
[12:54] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah
[12:55] <gonzo_> there are some binart values to send to the ublox (if that is what you vare using) to put it into flight mode
[12:58] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah we looked that up, pretty big string to set aerial dynamic mode(?)
[12:58] <AndyEsser> $GPGGA is what I use
[12:58] <AndyEsser> I belive daveake also uses GPRMC to get bearing/speed as welll
[12:59] <Ian_> fsphil, 1.5 stop bits is a 5-unit(Baudot) thing. As doubtless you are now well aware.
[12:59] <daveake> Yeah I do
[12:59] <daveake> Alo
[12:59] <daveake> Also, it's $Gxxxx ... see the ublox 8 datasheet
[13:00] <Ian_> timing of bits only has to be per character. Because of async nature of RTTY slightly longer time between characters is of no consequence.
[13:00] <Ian_> So if time is short keep it lean between bits and stack it all in between characters
[13:01] <Ben-AstroSoc> i'm gonna go look up the format for RTTY - is it similar to UART (start, data, parity, stop) or am i getting the wrong end of the stick
[13:01] <Ben-AstroSoc> don't get taught this :')
[13:01] <Ian_> Forget the parity
[13:01] <AndyEsser> basically identical
[13:01] <AndyEsser> but yea, forget parity
[13:01] <AndyEsser> the checksum takes care of dodgy data
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[13:02] <Ben-AstroSoc> still transmit 8-bit data blocks? or variable?
[13:02] <AndyEsser> up to you
[13:02] <Ian_> holding mark to get the rx on side, start space, databits, stop mark . . . until start of next character
[13:02] <AndyEsser> but for ease I do
[13:02] <AndyEsser> 1 start bit, 8 data bits, 2 stop bits
[13:02] <Ben-AstroSoc> that sounds in line with what i've been taught and read so
[13:03] <AndyEsser> since then you just send the ASCII char straight from the ublox
[13:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> not looked too much into how the signal is decoded yet
[13:05] <Ian_> Cheeky worst case Ben, is that if your tx signal is super, then others can look after rx in the short term ;)
[13:06] <Ben-AstroSoc> maybe, i think we have timet ho
[13:06] <Ian_> I did say cheeky!
[13:06] <Ben-AstroSoc> demonstration deadline is 11th April but the module isn't being marked on whether or not we fly, jjust if the system works
[13:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03IK8SUT-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
[13:06] <AndyEsser> Ben-AstroSoc: also, bear in mind - I'm learning all this stuff myself atm - so any recommendations I make - the others might jump in and tell me I'm a muppet :)
[13:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> don't worry about it
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[13:10] <Ben-AstroSoc> chances are youre still more experienced in electronics or C than i am so
[13:12] <AndyEsser> my experience of this stuff so far is none of this is particularly complicated :)
[13:13] <Ben-AstroSoc> i don't doubt - i'm learning serial comms and I2C etc as I go along so
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[13:23] <fsphil> forget flat earth, how about tiny jupiter: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZww02DWEAQMZSl.jpg:large
[13:23] <DL7AD1> good afternoon
[13:24] <fsphil> cool shot from mars express, https://twitter.com/jccwrt/status/692482128936857601
[13:25] <fsphil> hyia DL7AD1. that the OV camera on the ssdv page?
[13:27] <DL7AD1> fsphil: yes :)
[13:27] <DL7AD1> OV9655
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[13:28] <DL7AD1> fsphil: took me almost 3 days to get everything to work.
[13:28] <DL7AD1> and its quiet stable.
[13:29] <DL7AD1> i still did not manage, to get the OV2640 to work
[13:30] <DL7AD1> the OV2640 is pin compatible and can do JPEG so i dont have to convert it on the uC and i could do VGA or larger images
[13:30] <fsphil> yeah, might give a better image. the ov9655 isn't great
[13:31] <fsphil> though we're running it at very low resolution, not really a fair test :)
[13:32] <DL7AD1> fsphil: do you know i'm encoding it in real time?
[13:33] Nick change: DL7AD1 -> DL7AD
[13:33] <DL7AD> because i dont have enough memory to sample a picture in QVGA. so im encoding the image into JPEG while i'm sampling it
[13:34] <DL7AD> the shutter time is the problem
[13:34] <fsphil> yeah. guessed from this image :) http://ssdv.habhub.org/images/2016-02-02--03-11-00-D-11-3F0D.jpeg?u=66
[13:34] <DL7AD> i have to reduce the clocking to get this possible
[13:34] <DL7AD> so the shutter time is only 1/11sec
[13:34] <DL7AD> rofl
[13:35] <DL7AD> yeah that has been the time, when i had problem to get the DCMI working again for the 2nd image
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[13:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PISKY - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PISKY
[13:37] <fsphil> is the camera sending rgb565 or yuv?
[13:37] <fsphil> it looks like rgb565
[13:38] <fsphil> seems to make the image noisy
[13:38] <DL7AD> RGB565
[13:38] <DL7AD> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzVllHCGu5FQ0I2aUVNNXctdG8/view?usp=sharing
[13:38] <fsphil> haha, nice
[13:38] <DL7AD> i did not succeed to switch over to the YUV mode
[13:39] <fsphil> yeah I found that every time I tried to change a register, it would either do nothing or just fail completely
[13:39] <fsphil> annoying it has no rgb888 mode
[13:39] <DL7AD> well.... it did something. but it took me 24h of work time to decide, not to do it :P
[13:40] <DL7AD> yeah+
[13:40] <fsphil> hah
[13:40] <DL7AD> thats why i wanna go for the OV2640
[13:41] <DL7AD> but i couldnt get the OV2640 breakout to work so far
[13:42] <DL7AD> and since i was forced to solder the camera directly on the pads (because i swapped the pin directions and have to hack it), i'm currently unable to change the camera on the board
[13:42] <DL7AD> the OV9655 is currently the only camera for which i have code now. so we first took this one for a test
[13:43] <DL7AD> the will be a rev2 of the board anyway
[13:44] <tweetBot> @ebot70: Top hashtags for @gidauria: #m5s #raspberry_pi #ukhas #pd #23f https://t.co/hS9x3LOuv8
[13:45] <fsphil> huh
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[14:11] <eroomde> DL7AD: where in lichtenberg are you?
[14:12] <DL7AD> eroomde: :D rofl lichtenberg is a part in berlin :P
[14:12] <DL7AD> have a look for Berlin Lichtenberg
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> Some may find this interesting:
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW-RS232-TTL-JPEG-Digital-Serial-Port-CCTV-Camera-Module-SCB-1-with-video-out-Support/1975852463.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_1_505_506_503_504_301_502_10001_10002_10016_10005_10006_10003_10004,searchweb201560_8,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6448&btsid=e33c6084-8377-4b3f-8f2f-1ed058de18bb
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> TTL jpeg camera $15
[14:13] <DL7AD> eroomde: Lichten-berg => Light-Mountain
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> 9600-115200bps, 640*40
[14:14] <eroomde> DL7AD: yes i know!
[14:14] <eroomde> that's what i was asking
[14:14] <eroomde> you're above a whisky shop i used to visit from the looks of it
[14:14] <fsphil> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.5091173,13.4977092,3a,75y,133.03h,112.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAfesiBIFu3PjRny-TGOoug!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
[14:14] <fsphil> one of these windows? :)
[14:15] <DL7AD> yes. on of the larger building
[14:15] <DL7AD> 4th window from the bottom
[14:15] <eroomde> the internet is a scary palce
[14:15] <DL7AD> ^^
[14:15] <fsphil> lol yes
[14:15] <eroomde> ah yes the whiskey shop is still there in street view
[14:16] <fsphil> 106 years old
[14:16] <DL7AD> eroomde: have you been there before?
[14:16] <eroomde> yes
[14:17] <eroomde> will pm as boring for rest of channel
[14:17] <DL7AD> cool :)
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[14:18] <eroomde> i can't dm you for some reason
[14:18] <eroomde> anyway i was in prenzlauer berg for a bit
[14:18] <eroomde> about 6 yrs ago
[14:18] <eroomde> or 5 yrs ago
[14:18] <eroomde> some years ago
[14:19] <eroomde> between university and moving to oxford
[14:19] <DL7AD> what did you speak in germany?
[14:19] <eroomde> back when it was absurdly cheap compared to london
[14:19] <eroomde> it is now merely 'quite cheap' compared to london
[14:20] <eroomde> english sadly
[14:20] <eroomde> p-berg seemed to be bilingual
[14:20] <DL7AD> do you think?
[14:20] <eroomde> yes
[14:20] <eroomde> quite international
[14:21] <DL7AD> i think there no speacial district where people speak english
[14:21] <eroomde> compared to further east
[14:21] <DL7AD> but p-berg. yeah you could be right
[14:21] <eroomde> i don't mean that the whole area spoke english
[14:21] <eroomde> just that if i spoke in english i never had any problems
[14:21] <eroomde> everyone switched
[14:21] <DL7AD> yeah
[14:22] <eroomde> i made an effort to do german just odering food and stuff
[14:22] <eroomde> but like in cafes and bars it was completely fine to speak english
[14:22] <DL7AD> :D
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[14:23] <eroomde> i miss it actually
[14:23] <eroomde> tho not the cold
[14:24] <AndyEsser> howdy eroomde
[14:25] <AndyEsser> I should go back to Germany, not been since I was like 7
[14:25] <fsphil> never been there. but definitly on my list
[14:26] <eroomde> it's good (berlin). I think it probably helps to know someone to show you around
[14:26] <eroomde> it doesn't wear all its shinies on its sleve like paris or somewhere
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[14:28] <DL7AD> eroomde: there the TV tower in the back. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzVllHCGu5FdmRBcXV3MUpIdDQ/view?usp=sharing
[14:29] <DL7AD> quiet hard to see
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[14:31] <Miek> ~/.
[14:32] <eroomde> oh i just see the ball
[14:32] <eroomde> right on the roofline
[14:33] <fsphil> well at least you'll get good reception :)
[14:33] <ffaure__> hello guys
[14:33] Nick change: ffaure__ -> fab4space
[14:33] <fab4space> hello guys :)
[14:33] <fsphil> ahoy
[14:34] <fab4space> I am looking for a good non directional 868mhz antenna
[14:34] <fab4space> for 144 & 434mhz I have a diamond X200N
[14:34] <fab4space> but I'm looking for something better than a dipole at 868Mhz
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[14:44] <mfa298> fab4space: if you want non directional you might not find much better than dipole/ groundwave/ co-linear
[14:44] <mfa298> although that depends on what you mean by directional, even a dipole is directional
[14:44] <fab4space> mfa298: I would be interested by a colinear such as diamond x200n but for 868Mhz freq
[14:45] <fab4space> mfa298: I want it to be omni directionnal on the horizontal plane
[14:45] <mfa298> there's probably various rubber duck type antennas that you can buy, I suspect most people here make antennas for 868MHz
[14:45] <fab4space> I already have several dipoles, but I would be interested by colinears antenna
[14:46] <mfa298> assuming you want vertical polarisation then those are pretty much the choices then,
[14:47] <mfa298> I think colinears are fairly easy to make, and will potentially be slightly higher gain than a dipole as they squash the pattern more.
[14:50] <craag> Just scale any of the credible ham colinear guides to 868MHz
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[14:55] <SA6BSS-Mike> just a heads up, saw it was talked about a couple of weeks ago, there is a rtl-sdr decoder for Lora, its up on http://www.rtl-sdr.com/
[14:56] <fab4space> SA6BSS-Mike, it is still the same decoder (plugin for sdrangelove)
[14:56] <fab4space> he mentionned which settings he used to decode with it
[14:57] <fab4space> BW = 8, SF = 8, CR = 4/6, LowDataRateOptimization=on
[14:57] <SA6BSS-Mike> yep, that was what I saw
[14:59] <fab4space> mfa298, craag , I have found this 9dBi 868Mhz antenna : http://www.taiwan-antenna.com/front/bin/ptdetail.phtml?Part=860MHz-870MHz-9dBi-Omni-Directional-Antenna-N-Female
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[15:01] <daveake> (from GPSL) - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Pressure-Balloon-/321996112384
[15:02] <AndyEsser> Seller Notes: "New"
[15:02] <AndyEsser> the quote marks make that amusing
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[15:03] <craag> fab4space: Looks good - might be pricey to get hold of.
[15:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> The seller is also "new" never sold any and only just joined!
[15:04] <fab4space> craag, found this one too: https://www.interline.pl/antennas/HORIZON-8-860880MHz
[15:05] <fab4space> http://shop.interline.pl/pl/anteny/27-horizon-8dbi-860-880mhz-5907758040515.html : 59 euros
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[15:05] <craag> Hmm that's not bad
[15:05] <fab4space> yes :)
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[15:05] <richardeoin> ^^ almost certainly CNSP
[15:05] <daveake> I've got a small 868 yagi on the way. £16
[15:05] <richardeoin> by the looks of things
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[15:05] <craag> With 15deg beamwidth it would only work for near-horizon though
[15:06] <craag> $99 seems rather cheap for that balloon
[15:06] <fab4space> daveake, I have found cheap yagis too, but I would be interested to have an omni for my house
[15:06] <richardeoin> yeah that's pretty good value
[15:06] <craag> How much time did you put into yours richardeoin ?
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[15:06] <fab4space> and of course the best would be to have a yagi with a rotator
[15:07] <DL7AD> fsphil: the only problem is: if you want to receive on a frequency near to the radio stations (like 502MHz) it's harder to receive it with an SDR
[15:07] <richardeoin> about 6 hours to build each one craag
[15:07] <daveake> $99 is cheap then
[15:07] <craag> Very cheap!
[15:07] <craag> too cheap...?
[15:07] <richardeoin> 2/3 of that being the up/down seals because our film isn't wide enough
[15:08] <craag> ah
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[15:08] <eroomde> the first time we built a balloon it took about a week
[15:08] <eroomde> it was stupid
[15:08] <eroomde> but it very definitely provided the motivation to find a better way
[15:09] <AndyEsser> I don't think I'll ever get to the point where I have a desire to build my own ballooon
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[15:10] <richardeoin> it's fairly theraputic
[15:10] <richardeoin> doing the same simple thing repeatedly
[15:10] <eroomde> the first 2 days was theraputic
[15:10] <AndyEsser> richardeoin: that does not sound therapeutic to me
[15:11] <eroomde> it's not dissimilar to pcb assembly
[15:11] <eroomde> fun as something different, but after a week you wish for anything to stop the pain
[15:11] <AndyEsser> something that I would happily fob off if it wasn't so expensive
[15:12] <eroomde> ]you are probably not doing anything that isn't easy to assemble quickly at home
[15:12] <AndyEsser> agreed
[15:12] <AndyEsser> doesn't mean I find it enjoyable ;)
[15:12] <eroomde> good for you though
[15:13] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> I like the bit "Our test flights have flown this design around the world successfully."
[15:13] <AndyEsser> read: "I launched from a park and it was fine"
[15:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Unless they are tied up withLeo ?
[15:14] <mattbrejza> rockzip all over again?
[15:15] <richardeoin> It's almost certainly CNSP
[15:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Nee Arko to go check em out
[15:15] <richardeoin> they did round the world flights, they were using that film
[15:15] <richardeoin> and that altitude range
[15:16] <eroomde> that ebay listing is the only sign of any product from them that i can see http://www.scientificballoonsolutions.com/
[15:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> CNSP-21 and 24
[15:17] <richardeoin> heh, they think they can make a small business out of it
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[15:19] <mattbrejza> perhaps if they sold trackers as well..
[15:19] <craag> 15g payload, american market. lol.
[15:20] <richardeoin> there's nothing to stop them selling trackers
[15:20] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: is there business in selling trackers?
[15:20] <AndyEsser> (enough business I mean)
[15:20] <mattbrejza> well i dont think theres enough business to sell balloons but they seem to be trying
[15:20] <craag> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1250163085/tracksoar-aprs
[15:20] <mattbrejza> if youve already developed the tracker then perhaps its not a big step to sell
[15:21] <kokey> ah I remember emailing scientific balloon solutions many years ago
[15:22] <kokey> and also this company http://ravenaerostar.com/
[15:22] <kokey> there were just called aerostar.com back then
[15:23] <kokey> 'Thank you for your inquiry to Aerostar International. Our smallest Polyethylene Balloons are called Pillow Balloons and they start at 20 cubic feet volume and can lift a payload of .8 lbs, and they also come in 30, 50, 130 cu ft volumes which can carry subsequently larger payloads. '
[15:24] <eroomde> raven do the big stuff
[15:24] <eroomde> for csbf and so on
[15:24] <mfa298> at least with the various aprs trackers people make there's an additional market for people that want to put them on bikes / cars / ...
[15:26] <fsphil> DL7AD: yes I can imagine. I'm 40 miles from the FM transmitters here and they're still powerful enough to cause problem with my FCD
[15:27] <DL7AD> fsphil: here it's around 10km
[15:27] <fsphil> all digital now?
[15:28] <fsphil> I don't think there's any analogue TV left in europe
[15:28] <DL7AD> yes since years
[15:28] <DL7AD> since 10 year or so
[15:28] <fsphil> NI was the last UK region to switch, in 2012
[15:29] <DL7AD> oh thats late
[15:29] <fsphil> yeah. we had DVB for many years before that, but analogue only got switched off a few years ago
[15:30] <fsphil> since 1998
[15:30] <fsphil> older than I thought
[15:31] <DL7AD> i have to go now. club evening at my amateur radio club station
[15:31] <fsphil> have fun!
[15:32] <kokey> yeah so the global switch to digital TV date passed in 2015
[15:32] <kokey> and South Africa also had a date of 2013 to switch over
[15:32] <DL7AD> fsphil: thx
[15:32] <kokey> right now, south africa still hasn't even picked the standard they want to use
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[15:49] <fsphil> they might as well just go for dvb-t2 now, if they haven't comitted to one yet
[15:52] <kokey> yeah it could be like the history of when South Africa got television
[15:52] <kokey> the minister in charge of post & telecoms didn't want TV
[15:53] <kokey> then SA finally did get TV, in 1976, and it was colour already
[15:54] <fsphil> handy
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[15:59] <fsphil> one flaw with early adopting something is being stuck with old tech
[15:59] <fsphil> like our DAB system in the UK, it's stuck with MP2 audio
[16:01] <mattbrejza> buts its CRYSTAL CLEAR DIGITALLLL!!! or so they say
[16:01] <chris_99> heh
[16:02] <chris_99> i wonder how they decode DAB, if its done by some kind of dedicated chip, or if it's some kind of MCU/processor that theoretically you could upgrade the software for
[16:02] <gonzo_> things move on so fast now that everything is obsolete in a few years
[16:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> That's the problem the DAB chips are hardcoded and can't be upgraded.
[16:03] <chris_99> ahh
[16:04] <chris_99> should be using SDRs etc ;)
[16:04] <gonzo_> if they were all sw, then it would probably be done badly. And kit would be shipped in a flakey state, with the intention of getting the users to upgrade
[16:04] <fsphil> battery life would be awful if it was done in software
[16:04] <fsphil> well, awfuler
[16:05] <chris_99> heh
[16:05] <AndyEsser> only time I listen to DAB is in the car, and I'm not too fussed about battery life at that point :P
[16:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Quite! I borrowed a portable to try in the campervan, after 3 sets of batteries in less than a wekk I gace up!
[16:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> week I gave up*
[16:06] <fsphil> I'm happy enough with FM in the car
[16:06] <gonzo_> everytime I go to an electrical type shop, I always have a look at how cheap the DAB radios have become
[16:06] <gonzo_> about 17£ at the mo
[16:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Quite better coverage still than DAB.
[16:06] <gonzo_> for a crappy one
[16:06] <chris_99> i wonder if you can pick up DAB with an rtlsdr now
[16:06] <fsphil> I got a cheap DAB receiver, it didn't have a headphone socket and just a mono speaker
[16:07] <fsphil> chris_99: receive, definitely. not sure about decoder software
[16:07] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Its what 30+ years old technology now!
[16:07] <chris_99> mm, gonna have a looky
[16:07] <fsphil> I think the rtlsdr's IQ output was to support FM and DAB radio
[16:07] <eroomde> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap: Pure make a portable dab that lasts about 60hrs on a charge
[16:08] <gonzo_> I have a couple. being woken up by r4extra is nice. Classic comedy at 7am
[16:08] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Is that on standby then ? ;-)
[16:08] <fsphil> nothing is funny at 7am :)
[16:08] <AndyEsser> heh
[16:08] <AndyEsser> fsphil: no 6am launches for you then?
[16:08] <gonzo_> agreed, but it makes it bareable
[16:09] <fsphil> maybe, but they'll be launched by a grumpy person
[16:09] <AndyEsser> heh
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[16:09] <gonzo_> BEARABLE EVEN
[16:09] <fsphil> hah
[16:10] <eroomde> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap: spendier than some but actually really good
[16:10] <eroomde> http://www.pure.com/digital-radio/move-400d
[16:10] <gonzo_> 6am is a late night
[16:10] <AndyEsser> ^
[16:10] <AndyEsser> I think when I do a night time launch, I'll likely just work through the night, rather than do an early morning
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[16:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Ah that's alright then its got FM as well :-)
[16:10] <fsphil> eroomde: actually looks like it has half decent controls
[16:10] <AndyEsser> Do kind of want to do a night time launch - maybe timing it for a sunrise around apogee
[16:11] <fsphil> the cheap tescos one has an auto-retune button directly beside the channel change button
[16:11] <eroomde> a blocking process that takes 4 minutes?
[16:11] <fsphil> yeah
[16:11] <gonzo_> 60hrs batt life.... On fm?
[16:11] <eroomde> nice
[16:11] <fsphil> can't be cancelled
[16:11] <AndyEsser> fsphil: taking batteries out of something tends to cancel stuff :P
[16:11] <fsphil> yeah but then it has no channels
[16:12] <AndyEsser> That's what Spotify is for :)
[16:12] <AndyEsser> hehe
[16:12] <eroomde> spotify is rubbish for discovering stuff i find
[16:12] <fsphil> spotify in my car would be nice
[16:12] <gonzo_> if I go out, I don't want radio
[16:12] <fsphil> I would love them to add a global shuffle
[16:13] <fsphil> "play a random tune from your entire collection"
[16:13] <eroomde> suspect the distribution is such that you might regret that
[16:13] <gonzo_> just take your entire collection out
[16:13] <AndyEsser> fsphil: jump from AC/DC to Spice Girls ;)
[16:14] <eroomde> more like azerbaijani jazz to someone's 5hr recordings of whale song with panpipe accompaniment
[16:14] <gonzo_> there seems to be a lack of car din moiunt mp3 players that have a uuseable interface
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[16:14] <AndyEsser> eroomde: well he did say "his entire collection" not "every track available on Spotify"
[16:14] <gonzo_> and plenty that claim to take SD cards, but can't handle more than a few GB
[16:15] <eroomde> thought the latter was what fsphil suggested
[16:15] <eroomde> 'your' in the spotify sense of the pronoun
[16:15] <AndyEsser> Ah ok
[16:15] <AndyEsser> I guess we'll wait for fsphil to clarify :)
[16:15] <AndyEsser> not that it really matters :)
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[16:18] <AlvaroPelon> My HX1 fro mradiometrix has arrived, how can I test it with arduino?
[16:18] <AlvaroPelon> i have a FM receiver
[16:18] <AlvaroPelon> from radiometrix*
[16:21] <mattbrejza> https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[16:21] <craag> I assume AlvaroPelon is doing APRS?
[16:22] <mattbrejza> still a good start
[16:22] <daveake> You could write some code to send a 1kHz=say sine wave to a PWM pin, and listen for the resulting whistle on the radio
[16:22] <daveake> AlvaroPelon You have a ham licence ?
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[16:26] <AlvaroPelon> Yes
[16:27] <daveake> Good :)
[16:27] <daveake> Well it just wants to see an audio signal, so you need to make one, using PWM
[16:28] <AlvaroPelon> Okey, have you got a link to the code or i can just generate an audio signal?
[16:30] <daveake> The Arduino analog write functions will set a level of a pin using PWM.
[16:30] <daveake> So you could just thrown values at that in a loop
[16:30] <daveake> Just to test things are working as you expect
[16:32] <AlvaroPelon> I just need to set Tx pin of the HX1 to 5Volts to get a signal?
[16:33] <daveake> It will transmit something regardless of the Tx pin voltage
[16:33] <daveake> The Tx pin just modulates the VHF frequency
[16:34] <daveake> You won't hear anything on your FM radio without modulation
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[16:35] <daveake> If the radio has a signal strength meter, and you tune in to 144.whatever it is, then that will show if the HX1 is on or not
[16:35] <daveake> Also if you have squelch off, you'll hear noise with the HX1 off, and silence with it on
[16:38] <AlvaroPelon> Thank you Daveake
[16:38] <AlvaroPelon> Do you know how can I implement a microphone to the HX1
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[16:42] <daveake> audio amplifier
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[16:51] <AlvaroPelon_> Audio amplifier direct to the HX1 tx pi?
[16:51] <AlvaroPelon_> pin*
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[16:58] <AndyEsser> Ohm Time
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[17:20] <fsphil> AndyEsser: yeah was thinking spotify's collection. but yeah random is probably a bad idea, or I'll end up listening to some meditation crap
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[17:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03garym_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=garym_chase
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[17:32] <Vaizki> so UBSEDS13 should be popping up over the fjords of Norway tonight if it's alive and didn't go to Greenland?
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[17:34] <mattbrejza> only one prediction takes it over greenland
[17:34] <mattbrejza> otherwise yea, before midnight itshould appear
[17:34] <mattbrejza> so it probably already has made it round
[17:36] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N4XWC-1 after 033 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
[17:40] <Vaizki> and if it came down south the slow route, Faroes APRS should have picked it up probably
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[17:40] <Vaizki> umm scratch that, not predicted that far south
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[17:59] <AlvaroPelon> Dave, ¿Are you out there?
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[18:01] <AlvaroPelon> Can anyone help me to generate a 1Khz PWM signal with arduino to test my HX1 VHF Transmitter?
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[18:08] <mattbrejza> generating a 1khz pwm signal is a very common thing to do with ardunio
[18:08] <mattbrejza> so there are loads of google results for it
[18:08] <mattbrejza> with pics nad stuff
[18:08] <mattbrejza> much better than us typing vague comments
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[18:41] <DL7AD> evning
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[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> hi DL7AD
[18:44] <DL7AD> hi Lunar_Lander :)
[18:45] <DL7AD> Lunar_Lander: i've got my tracker ready :)
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> nice :)
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[18:45] <DL7AD> ssdv.habhub.org
[18:46] <DL7AD> D-11 http://ssdv.habhub.org
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> cool :)
[18:46] <AlvaroPelon> Very cooool DL7AD, how did yo do that?
[18:47] <DL7AD> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzVllHCGu5FWFpxbHFTZ1BSMTA/view?usp=sharing
[18:49] <AlvaroPelon> Flight computer?
[18:49] <DL7AD> AlvaroPelon: well. its a microcontroller connected with a camera
[18:49] <AlvaroPelon> Wich microcontroller?
[18:50] <DL7AD> AlvaroPelon: its an STM32F429 (UFBGA176+25)
[18:51] <AlvaroPelon> Cool :D
[18:51] <DL7AD> we got everything into the microcontroller
[18:51] <DL7AD> APRS 2FSK/RTTY and SSDV
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[19:00] <Ian_> Is that the GPS antenna to the right of the SMA connector on the left of the picture? Oh and congrats on your first NOTAM.
[19:00] <Ian_> It certainly looks neat.
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[19:18] <AlvaroPelon> DL7AD wich transmitter are you using?
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[19:23] <DL7AD> AlvaroPelon: two of the Si4464
[19:24] <DL7AD> Ian_: sorry i was talkiing to someone else. the GPS antenna is in the middle. the white chip antenna
[19:24] <DL7AD> Ian_: i've moved the gps antenna to the edge on the next revision..
[19:25] <AlvaroPelon> C++?
[19:26] <AlvaroPelon> Programming language
[19:26] <DL7AD> no just C. im using ChibiOS
[19:26] <DL7AD> i will soon release the software in my git repository
[19:31] <fsphil> neat to see it all running on a micro
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[19:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> hm, how easy is it to send serial out of the non-TXD pin on an atmega?
[19:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> assuming its a chunk more code than using the built in UART
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[19:43] <Upu> Software Serial ?
[19:43] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah
[19:43] <daveake> Not hard ... set up a timer to match the bit time, then send the next bit out each time
[19:43] <daveake> You need to do start and stop bits as well as the data
[19:44] <Ben-AstroSoc> how fast is the bitrate to a ublox max-m8q? it sends out data at 9600 baud so assume the same back in?
[19:44] <Upu> yes
[19:45] <Upu> you can change it with a command @ 9600
[19:45] <Ben-AstroSoc> right, gotcha
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[19:49] <fsphil> it might be easier to stick with the default
[19:49] <Ben-AstroSoc> that's 9600?
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[19:51] <fsphil> yeah, for most of them anyway
[19:51] <Ben-AstroSoc> yep, just found it
[19:51] <Ben-AstroSoc> 287 pagesinto a 294 page datasheet
[19:51] <fsphil> I had one odd one out that defaulted to 19200
[19:53] <Ben-AstroSoc> our simulation is finished 8 days early so time to start working on the software >_>
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[20:11] <Vaizki> Ben-AstroSoc: what are you using the softserial for?
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[20:23] <Ben-AstroSoc> Initialising the GPS if the uC's TXD is transmitting to the radio module
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[20:26] <Vaizki> you're thinking of splitting the uart between GPS RX and radio TX?
[20:26] <Vaizki> isn't it a problem to receive at 9600bps and send at 50bps on the same uart..?
[20:26] <Ben-AstroSoc> No, was gonna use the TXD for radio Tx and a separate pin to initialise the GPS
[20:27] <Vaizki> ok but where it the GPS rx coming in?
[20:27] <Ben-AstroSoc> RXD
[20:27] <Vaizki> at 9600bps?
[20:27] <Ben-AstroSoc> Ye
[20:27] <Vaizki> and radio TXD at 50bps? will that work?
[20:27] <Ben-AstroSoc> Uh
[20:28] <Ben-AstroSoc> Point
[20:28] <Vaizki> sorry to burst your hab :)
[20:28] <Ben-AstroSoc> Was trying to avoid using soft serial for radio Tx since we're doing it more
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> btw I once read a balloon book from the 60s
[20:28] <Vaizki> so do gps with i2c
[20:29] <Vaizki> works for me
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> it mentioned that a song played from a commercial radio station seemed to have triggered the RC cutdown
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> on one flight
[20:29] <Ian_> DL7AD, I was thinking about the proximity of the SMA socket + plug mass to the GPS chip antenna, in case is was a bit close. Good to hear that you have moved it.
[20:29] <Ben-AstroSoc> Could do that yeah, we haven't worked out how to implement I2C yet
[20:30] <Vaizki> but 50bps with interrupt driven "soft serial" seems very reliable
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> sorry for sidetracking :)
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[20:30] <Vaizki> I would not use the arduino softserial lib, just write your own interrupt handler
[20:30] <Ben-AstroSoc> We're doing it direct to AVR, no arduino
[20:31] <Ben-AstroSoc> Could use TXD/RXD for GPS and a third pin for radio Tx, just a case of writing our own serial Tx properly
[20:31] <Ben-AstroSoc> Will make a decision when we work out implementing i2c
[20:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 031590_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=1590_chase
[20:32] <Vaizki> yea you can just use a GPIO for radio Tx
[20:32] <Ben-AstroSoc> Get the theory but have no idea how to go about programming it yet
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[20:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> Our lab technician gave us a bunch of data sheets with indepth i2c so should manage I think
[20:36] <Vaizki> so for interrupt-driven serial tx to NTX2B for example.. http://pastebin.com/yn1LKXxH
[20:37] <Vaizki> an example how to set up timer 1 on 328p for a compare interrupt
[20:38] <Vaizki> also if your parts are not locked in yet, there is a new version out.. atmega328pb .. has 2 uarts (and more timers and other stuff)
[20:38] <fsphil> OCR1A = F_CPU / 1024 / (NTX2_RTTY_BAUD - 1); <-- you don't want those brackets
[20:38] <Vaizki> hmmmh ooops :D
[20:38] <Vaizki> you're right!
[20:39] <Vaizki> how did that happen and how did that work through all my tests..
[20:39] <fsphil> it would have resulted in slightly lower baud rate than you expected, but probably close enough
[20:40] <Ben-AstroSoc> Why do you cli() only to sei() later on? Vast majority of that looks familiar to me
[20:40] <Ben-AstroSoc> @ the atmega328pb - I wonder how easy that is to get at
[20:40] <Vaizki> well I am setting up timers and interrupts.. I don't want them to fire while I twiddle with them
[20:41] <Ben-AstroSoc> Suppose yeah
[20:41] <Vaizki> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ATMEGA328P-AUR/ATMEGA328P-AURCT-ND/3789455
[20:41] <fsphil> safe that way. though it shouldn't fire until TIMSK1 is set anyway
[20:41] <Vaizki> that easy
[20:42] <Vaizki> yes it shouldn't.. but this is setup code so no real harm done...
[20:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> Does that come in push-through form factor?
[20:42] <Vaizki> no dip packages sorry
[20:42] <Ben-AstroSoc> Can't use that then :/ don't have facilities to surface solder easily
[20:43] <Vaizki> you don't need a house to solder, just an iron :)
[20:43] <Ben-AstroSoc> Still more of a pain :') will have to see if there's a simulation package for it
[20:43] <Ben-AstroSoc> I suspect not
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[20:45] <Vaizki> fsphil: yea it's running at 48.7baud.. :P
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[20:46] <fsphil> meh close enough :)
[20:46] <AlvaroPelon> I tested my HX1, it works!!
[20:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 0315900_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=15900_chase
[20:48] <Vaizki> Ben-AstroSoc: also bookmark this.. http://www.engblaze.com/microcontroller-tutorial-avr-and-arduino-timer-interrupts/
[20:49] <Ben-AstroSoc> Done this at uni, just not used it to drive our own serial before
[20:50] <fsphil> you're doing this for gps?
[20:51] <Ben-AstroSoc> Soft serial is for radio Tx
[20:51] <Ben-AstroSoc> Using the UART peripheral for GPS
[20:51] <Ben-AstroSoc> As it stands
[20:51] <Vaizki> well it's really easy, just set up the timer with compare interrupt, then that interrupt gets called 50 times per second.. you set up variables to track which character / bit you are at and then bang out a stop bit, 7 or 8 databits and 2 stop bits.. move to next character..
[20:52] <fsphil> ah, perfect. was just reading back and got mixed up
[20:52] <Vaizki> so each call of the ISR just sets a GPIO high or low to send out one bit
[20:53] <Vaizki> and ignore the PWM stuff, just do a resistor-based voltage divider to get the right voltage to the NTX2B (if that's what you're using)
[20:53] <Ben-AstroSoc> Yep. Presumably 100 baud will run fine this method too
[20:53] <Vaizki> yes and 300.. but not 9600.. :)
[20:53] <fsphil> I've done 2400 baud ;)
[20:53] <Ben-AstroSoc> We're using that yeah, were going to power the whole thing with an LM7805
[20:54] <fsphil> as long as the interrupt code is light weight it should handle even high bit rates
[20:54] <Ben-AstroSoc> I mean the interrupt code should just trigger a subroutine in the main code right?
[20:54] <fsphil> consider 3.3v
[20:55] <Vaizki> Ben-AstroSoc: supply voltage is one thing but the voltage level to the NTX2B tx-pin has to reflext the RTTY shift you are looking for
[20:55] <Vaizki> yes life is easier at 3.3V and just run the AVR at 8MHz
[20:55] <AlvaroPelon> Anyone have an example of APRS with arduino via PWM?
[20:55] <Ben-AstroSoc> We looked at 3.3V but wanted to use the 5V GPS module for the different serial
[20:55] <fsphil> it's better to keep your interrupt code separate from the rest of your code
[20:55] <Ben-AstroSoc> Aerial*
[20:56] <fsphil> having no calls to other functions is ideal
[20:56] <Vaizki> what gps requires 5V?
[20:56] <Ben-AstroSoc> We were looking at the arduino ublox max-m8q
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[20:57] <Vaizki> max m8q works fine with 3.3v.. if you are not using an arduino, don't use an arduino shield :O
[20:57] <fsphil> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51
[20:58] <Vaizki> yes I have one of those that fsphil linked, it's great
[20:58] <fsphil> pretty much everything does 3.3v these days, apart from arduino. annoyingly
[20:59] <Vaizki> some arduinos are 3.3v to add to the confusion
[20:59] <Vaizki> but 5v is legacy
[20:59] <Ben-AstroSoc> Would you say it's definitively better to work on 3.3 the city
[20:59] <Ben-AstroSoc> Then*
[20:59] <fsphil> yeah. if you have the choice then definitly
[20:59] <Vaizki> yes
[20:59] <Ben-AstroSoc> the different ublox modules had different aerials on so we went with what we were recommended
[21:00] <fsphil> yeah there are different styles of antenna
[21:00] <Vaizki> the module fsphil linked also supports a coin cell backup battery which is really nice when testing
[21:00] <fsphil> I've had good experience with the Sarantel
[21:00] <Ben-AstroSoc> we wanted one that worked at the most angles so
[21:01] <Vaizki> it allows the module to keep gps calendar and satellite data when you remove power to it
[21:01] <Vaizki> so when you power it on, it doesn't take 10 minutes to first fix
[21:01] <Upu> Sarantels are the danglies
[21:01] <fsphil> the sarantel is probably ideal for that
[21:01] <Ben-AstroSoc> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51 so it this one practically identical to the arduino one?
[21:02] <fsphil> got a link to the one you where considering?
[21:02] <Ben-AstroSoc> yeah 2s
[21:02] <Upu> that designed for 3.3V µC's
[21:03] <Upu> its the same PCB for 5V just has a level convertor on it
[21:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=68&search=ublox
[21:03] <Ben-AstroSoc> thats what we were looking at
[21:03] <Upu> yep thats the 5V one
[21:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-58 after 0313 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-58
[21:04] <Upu> has all the regulation and level convertors to handle 5V Arduinos
[21:04] <fsphil> save yourself £6 by not having the convertors
[21:04] Action: fsphil isn't helping Upu here :)
[21:04] <Ben-AstroSoc> right
[21:04] <Ben-AstroSoc> does it get easier to drive the NTX2B on 3.3v then?
[21:04] <Upu> NTX2B runs at 3.3V fine
[21:04] <Upu> anything down to 2.7V
[21:04] <Vaizki> no difference really
[21:05] <SA6BSS-Mike> ps-58 up on habhub
[21:05] <Ben-AstroSoc> i mean from the point of view of supplying a specific voltage to one of the pins
[21:05] <fsphil> PS-58 very near a small island called Georgetown
[21:05] <SA6BSS-Mike> :)
[21:05] <Ben-AstroSoc> havent read up on that yet
[21:05] <Vaizki> Ben-AstroSoc: just different resistor values than for 5V
[21:05] <Vaizki> but same concept
[21:05] <fsphil> man that's one isolated island
[21:05] <Vaizki> it's Ascension :D
[21:06] <Vaizki> not georgetown
[21:06] <fsphil> Ascension Island, sorry
[21:06] <fsphil> just zoomed in
[21:06] <Vaizki> and there's regular flights there from the UK ;)
[21:06] <fsphil> tempting
[21:06] <fsphil> "English Beach"
[21:06] <Vaizki> you want isolated? go Tristan de Cunha
[21:06] <Ben-AstroSoc> right you have to limit the Tx on the NTX2B to 3V
[21:07] <Ben-AstroSoc> the amplitude before the resistor is presumably just Vcc
[21:07] <fsphil> yeah. your resistor dividers will sort that out
[21:08] <Upu> even on 5V the voltage on TXD should be 0-3V
[21:08] <Ben-AstroSoc> datasheet is sayingstick a 10KO res in the middle
[21:08] <Ben-AstroSoc> for 3.3v Vcc
[21:08] <Upu> datasheet is assuming you're doing FM
[21:09] <fsphil> do get the ntx2 sending out rtty, you select resistors so that your output pin on the avr changes the voltage on the NTX2's input just very slightly
[21:09] <fsphil> to get*
[21:10] <fsphil> it might only vary by a few microvolts
[21:10] <Upu> 0.127V I think for 425hz
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[21:10] <Upu> if my memory serves me
[21:10] <Ben-AstroSoc> right... is this on the datasheet
[21:10] <Upu> Radiometrix one ?
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[21:10] <Ben-AstroSoc> ye
[21:10] <fsphil> we're not exactly using it for it's intended use :)
[21:10] <fsphil> -'
[21:10] <Ben-AstroSoc> that s what i have open at the moment
[21:10] <Vaizki> https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[21:10] <Upu> unlikely as they don't expect you to be doing SSB with it
[21:11] <Upu> suggest you close it :)
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[21:11] <Vaizki> hmmh that page has the PWM stuff on it
[21:11] <Upu> yes I was just looking at that
[21:12] <Ben-AstroSoc> aah ok i understand how it's working now
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[21:12] <Vaizki> https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2?rev=1399496254
[21:12] <Upu> https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2?rev=1381045698
[21:12] <Upu> :)
[21:12] <Vaizki> that old one has resistor setup :
[21:12] <Vaizki> :)
[21:12] <Upu> should probably go back to that
[21:12] <Vaizki> but also 5V
[21:13] <Vaizki> so you need to calculate your resistors for 3.3V but it's easy
[21:13] <Ben-AstroSoc> are those both teh same revisions?
[21:13] <Vaizki> same ntx2b but different ways of doing things
[21:13] <Upu> near as
[21:14] <Ben-AstroSoc> the divider seems simpler to be honest
[21:14] <Upu> put really simple you just need to change the voltage on the TXD pin
[21:14] <Upu> say from 1V to 1.127V
[21:14] <Vaizki> right, don't go for 0V or 3V
[21:14] <Upu> no that will change 0-6khz
[21:14] <Upu> you want ~ 425hz
[21:14] <Vaizki> no I mean don't put either end at the limits
[21:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> is there a frequency deviationwe want to aim for?
[21:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> nvm you answered that
[21:15] <Upu> for 50 baud yes
[21:15] <Upu> but don't get too hung up on it
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[21:15] <Vaizki> or use PWM.. I tried everything and the cleanest signal is to have it like you said, 1V low and 1.127V high
[21:15] <Upu> +/- 150hz won't kill anyone
[21:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> does that change much for 100baud? 100's what we've been working to
[21:15] <Ben-AstroSoc> can ofc change
[21:15] <Vaizki> no change
[21:16] <fsphil> your shift needs to be at least half your baud rate
[21:16] <Ben-AstroSoc> right
[21:16] <fsphil> there are a standard set of shifts for rtty, best to stick close to one of those
[21:17] <fsphil> not a requirement, but it makes it a bit easier for everyone
[21:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> will try and get close to that deviation then
[21:17] <Ben-AstroSoc> brb doing some math
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[21:18] <Ben-AstroSoc> will need to find the power supply i found earlier for 3.3v too :') started at 3.3 originally then switched back to 5 -.-
[21:19] <Upu> 3.3 is better
[21:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> one of my teammates has just informed me half the sensors we're looking at are only in 3.3
[21:19] <fsphil> hah
[21:19] <fsphil> result
[21:19] <Ben-AstroSoc> yep xD
[21:20] <Vaizki> as I mentioned, 5V is legacy
[21:20] <kc2pit> The other half are only 5V-compatible because they come on a breakout board that translates to 3.3V, I'll bet.
[21:20] <Vaizki> only thing keeping it alive is Arduino
[21:20] <Vaizki> much of the new stuff is 1.8V
[21:20] <Vaizki> and some are 1.1V..
[21:21] <fsphil> soon we won't even need a voltage
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[21:21] <Ben-AstroSoc> :^)
[21:21] <Ben-AstroSoc> it's too late for math
[21:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> i've been up since 5:30
[21:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> urgh
[21:22] <fsphil> !!
[21:22] <Ben-AstroSoc> protip: dont commute to uni
[21:23] <Vaizki> how much are you expecting to draw power? 200mA max?
[21:23] <Ben-AstroSoc> i have literally no idea
[21:23] <Ben-AstroSoc> power concerns were why we're using 8MHz over 16
[21:23] <fsphil> your cpu will be the least power hungry component
[21:23] <Ben-AstroSoc> enquired earlier as to what people have been getting away with
[21:23] <fsphil> regardless of 8 or 16 mhz :)
[21:24] <Upu> Habduino is basically a 5V board with radio and GPS and the Arduino itself via a buckboost and that does about 120mA
[21:24] <Upu> its over 24 hours on a pair of AA's
[21:25] <Vaizki> well ok I'll give you a hint.. my tracker prototype that has atmega328p @ 8MHz, ntx2b, ublox m8q and ds18b20 1wire is at about 100mA .. Vcc is 3.3V and my power supply is 4xAA
[21:25] <Ben-AstroSoc> 3-4 L91s should be fine then right?
[21:25] <Vaizki> yes
[21:25] <Ben-AstroSoc> 'ds18b20 1wire' googling..
[21:25] <Vaizki> temperature sensor
[21:25] <Ben-AstroSoc> ah
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[21:26] <Upu> 2 L91's with a buck boost are fine
[21:26] <Upu> heck you can get away with one at 3.3V
[21:26] <Vaizki> yea but if he's flying a heavy, why not carry 4 so he can find it the next morning? :)
[21:26] <Ben-AstroSoc> what does a buckboost do?
[21:26] <Ben-AstroSoc> googling hang on
[21:26] <DL7AD> fsphil: ping
[21:26] <Vaizki> makes voltage go UP
[21:27] <Vaizki> instead of just down
[21:27] <fsphil> hey DL7AD:
[21:27] <DL7AD> fsphil: phil? did you LORA yourself?
[21:27] <Upu> TPS61201 takes any voltage in down to 0.8V and outputs 3.3V
[21:27] <Ben-AstroSoc> we;re gonna expand on this project later in the year so will probably go with a slightly larger pack than is strictly necessary
[21:28] <fsphil> DL7AD: I've not used lora, apart from running daveake's gateway
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[21:29] <Vaizki> Upu: he wants thru-hole only
[21:29] <Ben-AstroSoc> tps61201: does that come in DIP or is it only surface mount
[21:29] <Upu> oh why u through hole only :(
[21:29] <DL7AD> fsphil: okay. hm. how is LORA decoded and sent to habhub?
[21:29] <fsphil> all the good stuff is surface mount these days
[21:29] <Upu> you can get one from Sparkfun
[21:29] <Upu> Lipower or somthing
[21:29] <Upu> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10255
[21:30] <DL7AD> fsphil: or can you use dl-fldigi? not really....
[21:30] <Ben-AstroSoc> eeee $15
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[21:30] <Ben-AstroSoc> LM7805 was pittance in comparison -.-
[21:30] <fsphil> DL7AD: https://github.com/PiInTheSky/lora-gateway
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[21:31] <Ben-AstroSoc> was looking at an LD1117V33 earlier
[21:31] <Ben-AstroSoc> would that work?
[21:32] <Upu> yeah but the LM7805 has 2V drop
[21:32] <Vaizki> or MCP1700-3302E
[21:32] <Vaizki> it is a TO-92 package, 250mA and drop of 200mA or so
[21:32] <DL7AD> fsphil: so the know how is actually based on some proprietary modules, right?
[21:32] <Ben-AstroSoc> on 3.3v now so 7805 is booted
[21:32] <fsphil> DL7AD: yeah, that's why I'm not using them much
[21:33] <DL7AD> fsphil: but do you know, what do the modules basically do?
[21:34] <Ben-AstroSoc> mcp1700-3302E seems to supply a lot less current, hopefully that wouldn't be an issue
[21:34] <Vaizki> that's why I asked for your budget :)
[21:34] <fsphil> DL7AD: you mean do I know how the modulation works?
[21:34] <Vaizki> I mean power budget
[21:34] <Ben-AstroSoc> we were looking at adding SD card data logging and/or a motor/servo driver much later on so might be better for the higher current supply
[21:34] <DL7AD> fsphil: yes
[21:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> haven't defined a power budget as of yet so :/
[21:35] <fsphil> DL7AD: only a basic idea, nothing that would help decode it
[21:35] <Vaizki> I didn't either, I just wired it up on a breadboard, put a lab power supply on 3.3V and checked how much it draws..
[21:35] <Ben-AstroSoc> will measure for ourselves once we have components in then
[21:36] <DL7AD> fsphil: well if you dont know it would be a challenge to define an open source protocol which works like it
[21:36] <Ben-AstroSoc> voltage regulators are easy to find so not fussed
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[21:37] <Vaizki> yes just pay attention to having decoupling caps
[21:37] <Ben-AstroSoc> yep, was taught thta last year :)
[21:38] <DL7AD> fsphil: so it would help me to know what makes LORA so powerful. or lets say: more powerful than normal rtty
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[21:38] <fsphil> it has FEC :)
[21:39] <DL7AD> thats it?
[21:39] <DL7AD> but ssdv has FEC too
[21:39] <fsphil> well it does a kind of spread spectrum trick too
[21:39] <DL7AD> but spread spectrum is easy to implement.
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[21:40] <Ben-AstroSoc> 0.1uF is normally sufficient for a decoupling capacitor at Vcc right? can't get at my designs from last term at the moment and see what I used
[21:40] <DL7AD> fsphil: i know from gps how spread spectrum exactly works and how to implement it
[21:41] <fsphil> http://cdn.instructables.com/F9U/TTJX/I8YBOW01/F9UTTJXI8YBOW01.MEDIUM.jpg
[21:41] <DL7AD> eh.... okay
[21:41] <fsphil> this just spreads it by increasing the frequency, wrapping around to keep it within a fixed range
[21:41] <DL7AD> havent seen this before
[21:41] <fsphil> the data is encoded by jumping ahead or back from what I can see
[21:41] <fsphil> phase shift really
[21:42] <fsphil> I think the GPS-style of spread spectrum would work better
[21:42] <fsphil> plus existing modules could be used to transmit it
[21:42] <fsphil> not sure about reception though
[21:43] <fsphil> smaller codes than gps naturally :)
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[21:43] <DL7AD> fsphil: gps uses the C/A code why is basically an LFSR generating a pseudo stream which is them multiplexed with the actual data
[21:44] <DL7AD> the C/A code repeats every 1023 chips (at gps)
[21:44] <fsphil> yeah. for this a code 16 bits should be enough
[21:44] <DL7AD> demodulation works like modulation. just you have to get the synchronization. and this can be done by autocorrelation.
[21:45] <DL7AD> i think 16bit is much too far
[21:45] <DL7AD> because your signal gets spread by 2^n-1
[21:45] <fsphil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barker_code
[21:46] <fsphil> 13 bits
[21:46] <fsphil> 802.11b uses the 11-bit barker code
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[21:46] <DL7AD> gps uses gold code. glonass kasimi
[21:46] <DL7AD> they are all similar
[21:46] <DL7AD> but i dont know which is the best
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[21:47] <fsphil> yeah same idea for all of them
[21:47] <fsphil> it would be worth testing with those barker codes
[21:48] <DL7AD> what would you use for receiption?
[21:48] <DL7AD> are you good in programming with SDRs?
[21:50] <fsphil> I've got my head around the basic concepts
[21:51] <fsphil> but yeah I'd probably try and write a software decoder
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> nice lab on the SSDV page :)
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[21:52] <mattbrejza> how do you intend to transmit dsss?
[21:52] <mattbrejza> (i probably miseed it)
[21:53] <fsphil> the idea in my head is to use the RFM modules, just transmit it as FSK
[21:53] <DL7AD> fsphil: is it possible to apply the codes to FSK instead of PSK? (gps does PSK)
[21:54] <fsphil> I'm not sure if the cheap radio modules can do PSK reliably
[21:54] <fsphil> I think someone here managed to get an NTX2 to do it
[21:54] <mattbrejza> oh right
[21:54] <mattbrejza> there was noise at some point about a new TI part that could do it, but unsure what happened to that
[21:56] <adamgreig> you can do it on an ntx2/mtx2/etc no big deal
[21:56] <adamgreig> 'reliably' is unanswered
[21:57] <adamgreig> https://agg.io/u/mtx2psk5.png is an MTX2 transmitting PSK
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[21:58] <adamgreig> that's at 2kbps
[21:58] <adamgreig> don't think you could push it very much higher due to the input filter on the mtx2
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[22:02] <fsphil> how bad an idea is DSSS with FSK?
[22:04] <adamgreig> i feel like it should be fine?
[22:04] <adamgreig> not tried
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[22:05] <kc2pit> Ben-AstroSoc: If you're still looking for a boost converter that doesn't require surface mount soldering, Pololu has some modules that might work well. https://www.pololu.com/product/2561 for example.
[22:09] <mattbrejza> ti part might be able to do dsss: http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/tidua08/tidua08.pdf
[22:10] <mattbrejza> http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/swru295e/swru295e.pdf
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[22:12] <mattbrejza> fsphil: ^
[22:13] <kc2pit> Actually, I think that Pololu module is a TPS61201 with passives.
[22:14] <fsphil> ah cool, interesting part. has qpsk
[22:14] <Vaizki> my multicopter RC is a futaba and it uses 2.4GHz DSSS but also frequency hops over 74 frequency slots..
[22:15] <mattbrejza> however the main datasheet makes no mention of dsss :/
[22:15] <fsphil> page 27
[22:16] <Vaizki> ML2724 is what the futaba FASST uses
[22:16] <Vaizki> so it's DSSS FSK with hopping
[22:17] <adamgreig> interesting mattbrejza
[22:17] <adamgreig> £3.10 on digikey
[22:18] <fsphil> this is worth a try
[22:19] <adamgreig> it's described as for narrowband systems
[22:19] <mattbrejza> craag: you have some cc1125s on boards?
[22:19] <Vaizki> I think SIGFOX devices use CC1120s?
[22:19] <adamgreig> none of them claim to support PSK on the datasheet?
[22:19] <craag> mattbrejza: I don't have one myself, but that's what we're using for cubesat
[22:20] <mattbrejza> to be soldered then
[22:20] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42HpV2E0ZI8
[22:20] <fsphil> hehe
[22:20] <craag> I've got a couple of cc1120 parts for groundstation
[22:20] <craag> as I don't believe they differ for TX
[22:20] <mattbrejza> well that document says cc112x so cc1120 should be fine
[22:20] <craag> and the plan was to use sdr-only downlink at that point
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> hi craag
[22:21] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: what's the point to the cc112x/cc1175 then? doesn't look like built in psk or dsss
[22:21] <adamgreig> i think that app note is just doing the dsss in software?
[22:21] <mattbrejza> http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/swru295e/swru295e.pdf this disagrees
[22:21] <mattbrejza> havnt really read it tbh :P
[22:21] <fsphil> "C112X supports DSSS PN mode for applications requiring high sensitivity"
[22:22] <mattbrejza> was just copying that line myself
[22:22] <adamgreig> ah yea found that
[22:22] <adamgreig> not in the datasheet though hhuh
[22:22] <craag> interesting
[22:23] <adamgreig> doesn't look like it does anything fundamentally useful though
[22:23] <adamgreig> s/useful/unique i guess
[22:23] <adamgreig> all it does is XOR your data with a sequence
[22:23] <adamgreig> it's basically like the whitening xor everything else has
[22:23] <fsphil> the receiver part is more interesting
[22:23] <adamgreig> except it also slows down your data by rate 1/4
[22:24] <adamgreig> fair
[22:24] <adamgreig> I reckon it would be almost no more difficult to do that on your micro, and much more flexible and potent
[22:24] <Vaizki> what about CC1310.. Cortex-M3 + SimpleLink radio
[22:24] <Vaizki> it does IEEE 802.15.4
[22:24] <adamgreig> isn't that fsk also
[22:24] <Vaizki> which is a DSSS and QPSK
[22:24] <adamgreig> oh
[22:25] <Vaizki> well I think there's several variants
[22:25] <adamgreig> yea
[22:25] <Vaizki> to make a real solid standard you gotta branch out like crazy :D
[22:25] <adamgreig> i think a lot of 802.15.4 is fsk
[22:25] <mattbrejza> huh if tahts the case adamgreig than its a bit shit...
[22:25] <adamgreig> like, the rfm modules can do it
[22:26] <mattbrejza> 'it' = whitening?
[22:26] <mattbrejza> rather than actual dsss///
[22:26] <adamgreig> no, 802.15.4g
[22:26] <mattbrejza> oh sorry mised that
[22:26] <adamgreig> Vaizki: the CC1310 is also FSK
[22:26] <adamgreig> not QPSK or DSSS for that matter
[22:27] <adamgreig> oh- no, it can do the same DSSS as the cc112x
[22:27] <adamgreig> wireless m-bus
[22:27] <adamgreig> but it does 802.15.4g which is fsk
[22:27] <Vaizki> ah dammit
[22:27] <adamgreig> I don't think any ISM stuff does PSK in <1GHz
[22:27] <adamgreig> I looked a lot
[22:28] <adamgreig> (I mean probably it could exist but none of the standards use it, so no one seems to make it)
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[22:28] <mattbrejza> oh well, back to hacking fsk transmitters into sending bpsk
[22:28] <adamgreig> :P
[22:28] <Vaizki> hehe
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[22:30] <Vaizki> what about http://www.axsem.com/www/rfics/general-purpose/ax5031
[22:31] <Vaizki> must be something wrong with that then
[22:31] <Vaizki> PSK and DSSS
[22:32] <adamgreig> that looks very nice
[22:32] <adamgreig> can't find anyone selling it
[22:33] <mattbrejza> tbh how hard is it to whack a mixer on the end of a fsk modem followed by a filter + PA?
[22:33] <adamgreig> lot more effort than not
[22:33] <mattbrejza> also i cant see any refernce to dsss on that ax5031 page
[22:34] <mattbrejza> PSK might just be MSK renamed
[22:34] <adamgreig> "Supported modulations: FSK, MSK, GFSK, 4-FSK, PSK and ASK"
[22:34] <Vaizki> The AX5031 supports FSK, GFSK, MSK, 4-FSK, PSK and ASK modulations. All modulations are shaped. The AX5031 features an easy to use protocol implemented in hardware. This guarantees shortest code size and lowest CPU usage of a microcontroller. CRCs are calculated automatically. Digital spread spectrum is possible on all modulations.
[22:34] <adamgreig> "Digital spread spectrum is possible on all modulations"
[22:34] <adamgreig> mm
[22:35] <mattbrejza> oh right, i just cntrol+f'ed
[22:35] <mattbrejza> tbh looking at the block diagram i cant see how it can do dsss
[22:35] <adamgreig> they've just been bought by ON so maybe that's why you can't buy any of the stuff atm
[22:36] <adamgreig> really simple RF interface though
[22:36] <adamgreig> looks very nice
[22:36] <mattbrejza> mouser sell it
[22:36] <mattbrejza> £1.58
[22:36] <mattbrejza> oh min order 500 lol
[22:36] <Vaizki> not bad for a do-it-all
[22:38] <adamgreig> dk 'sell' it but no stock
[22:38] <adamgreig> 2Mbps is pretty nice
[22:42] <Vaizki> it'll cost you 15 usd to order 5 samples of the transmitter and 5 of the tranceiver (ax5051)
[22:42] <Vaizki> Ships from ASIA, not in stock, pending replenishment.
[22:42] <Vaizki> eh
[22:42] <Vaizki> try again later ;)
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[22:46] <kc2pit> Mouser says they'll have the AX5051 in stock at the end of the month.
[22:46] <Vaizki> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?lang=en&site=us&vendor=0&WT.z_cid=ref_findchips0311_dkc_buynow&mpart=AX5051-1-TA05
[22:46] <kc2pit> I had been eyeing the AX5043 and its claimed AFSK capability, thinking of maybe doing APRS without kludgey silliness.
[22:46] <Vaizki> and digikey has it for order
[22:47] <kc2pit> Well, at the hardware level anyway. Silliness is intrinsic to APRS.
[22:48] <Ben-AstroSoc> will bookmark it if i end up needing them, thanks!
[22:49] <kc2pit> But that's a ways down the queue. Right now, I'm working on making friends with the si4463 and convincing it to do rtty.
[22:49] <Vaizki> 28-VFQFN.. whee
[22:50] <kc2pit> Kinda got it working last night, using a Teensy and radiohead to save me from having to figure out how to configure every damn register, but dl-fldigi always mangles the first few characters of a transmission. Not sure if that's a me problem or a dl-fldigi problem.
[22:51] <kc2pit> Or an RTL-SDR problem, or an sdrsharp problem...
[22:51] <prog> or an operator problem
[22:51] <Vaizki> do you send out a stop bit for a while before starting the first char?
[22:52] <kc2pit> Stop is mark, right?
[22:52] <kc2pit> I think I had it sending space for a moment.
[22:52] <kc2pit> Couldn't recall what sort of preamble-like-thing rtty was supposed to use.
[22:53] <Vaizki> a start bit is space tone
[22:53] <Vaizki> send out mark continuously between transmissions
[22:53] <kc2pit> Ahh. That might help, then.
[22:53] <Vaizki> to keep dl-fldigi tracking
[22:55] <Vaizki> believe me I made all the mistakes in rapid succession a year ago :)
[22:56] <Vaizki> no sign of UBSEDS13.. should have hit norway by now...
[22:58] <kc2pit> Also, the signal appeared pretty splattery on the waterfall. I'm guessing that's because I'm using asynchronous direct TX mode and the frequency transitions are really sharp. Does the TX power ramping help that if I shut the transmitter off between bits?
[22:58] <kc2pit> (I'd just try it, but I'm still at work for a while.)
[22:59] <Vaizki> I don't think shutting it off between bits is a good idea...
[22:59] <kc2pit> Or can I use synchronous mode and GFSK to smooth things out?
[23:00] <kc2pit> It seems stupid, but at 50 baud...
[23:01] <Vaizki> well GFSK should smooth it out
[23:08] <fsphil> kc2pit: send a few 0x00 bytes before your string starts too, helps dl-fldigi sync properly
[23:09] <Vaizki> the si4463 does the FSK/GFSK modulation internally?
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[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[23:11] <kc2pit> Vaizki: Yeah.
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[23:17] <Vaizki> well the si4463 seems to have an adjustable BT on the GFSK
[23:17] <kc2pit> fsphil: I had started adding " " (0x20) characters before the string, but it was pretty inconsistent about how long it took to settle down and demodulate well. If the stop bit doesn't do it, I guess I just add more padding.
[23:18] <Vaizki> but I need to sleep..
[23:21] <fsphil> the 0x00 works well as there's no bits to confuse with the start bit
[23:21] <fsphil> it should get it right within just a few
[23:21] <kc2pit> Ahh.
[23:22] <fsphil> that and holding the stop bit on between strings
[23:22] <fsphil> or just sending lots of 0x00's when idle
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[23:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 0335TNY65_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=35TNY65_chase
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[00:00] --- Wed Feb 3 2016