highaltitude.log.20160131

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[02:46] <VK3DBP_> Hi, all. Paul in Melbourne just starting out.
[02:47] <VK3DBP_> Will we get PS-60 in Melbourne??
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[02:56] <DL7AD> morning
[02:56] <VK3DBP_> Hi, Rob. Paul in Melbourne.
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[02:56] <VK3DBP_> I'm getting 2m signal but nothing on 70cm
[02:56] <Rob_vk1kw> Hello Paul
[02:57] <Rob_vk1kw> how often packets Paul?
[02:57] <VK3DBP_> You are loser than me. RU getting anything?
[02:57] <VK3DBP_> Closer
[02:58] <Rob_vk1kw> nothing jet
[02:58] <Rob_vk1kw> jet yet
[02:58] <VK3DBP_> packets 15s spacing
[02:58] <VK3DBP_> not sure how to decode them
[02:59] <Rob_vk1kw> should see something in next 1/2 hr
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[03:02] <Rob_vk1kw> should be standard aprs packets - not seen any yet to really know
[03:02] <VK3DBP_> what do you use to decode them?
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[03:05] <Rob_vk1kw> a hint of 434 in the noise
[03:06] <VK3DBP_> what frequency?
[03:06] <VK3DBP_> 434.649?
[03:08] <Rob_vk1kw> yep comes out on dl-fldigi 1500 about
[03:09] <VK3DBP_> decoding now using AFSK1200 decoder
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[03:10] <VK3DBP_> does fldigi decode the packets? Can't see mode
[03:11] <VK3DBP_> 145.175 must be general APRS frequency
[03:13] <Rob_vk1kw> 145.175 general aprs freq - need tnc type decoder or aprs s/w
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[03:15] <Rob_vk1kw> Are you still in Melb Paul?
[03:16] <VK3DBP_> Yes QTH is Brighton
[03:16] <Rob_vk1kw> ahhh first olivia decode and heard very fastrise time packets
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[03:19] <VK3DBP_> you are in blue circle on habhub map..does this show reception zone?
[03:20] <Rob_vk1kw> zero deg elevation I think
[03:20] <VK3DBP_> OK so it just came over your horizon
[03:21] <Rob_vk1kw> same problem with packets Andy - no preamble and vk3rgi aprs cannot decode me thinks
[03:21] <VK3DBP_> does spiral blue line show expected path?
[03:22] <Rob_vk1kw> no thats where its been already - click on the HYSPLIT box on left of display to see where its may go
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[03:25] <VK3DBP_> OK so I missed the earlier pass near Melbourne
[03:25] <Rob_vk1kw> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/PS-60#g/altitude
[03:25] <Rob_vk1kw> yep
[03:26] <Rob_vk1kw> sry before I put vk3rgi aprs - ment vk1rgi aprs
[03:40] <Rob_vk1kw> poor signal here on 434 behind the hills
[03:40] <Rob_vk1kw> gone for walkies - back soon
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[03:46] <VK3DBP> test online
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[04:39] <Rob_vk1kw> I notice both PS-60 and VK3YT-11 show APRS call signs - where do I see Olivia callsigns please
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[06:51] <Bazz_vk2dli> Anyone following PS-60 on here
[06:52] <Bazz_vk2dli> ?
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[07:37] <Rob_vk1kw> no signal from PS-60 434MHz?
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[07:47] <Rob_vk1kw> does anyone know why PS-60 tlm has stopped - battery gone flat - shited freq?? pls
[07:48] <Rob_vk1kw> ooops shited shifted freq
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[07:58] <Vaizki> morning
[07:58] <Vaizki> panic down under with PS-60 gone awol?
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[08:30] <VK3DBP> new frequency for ps-60??
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[08:33] <SA6BSS-Mike> the info says Olivia 8/250 with RSID on 434.649Mhz USB
[08:34] <VK3DBP> OK I'm on there now in Melbourne hoping for a signal
[08:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> if u have a sdr (rtl) hock it up, easy to see it in the waterfall compared to regular receiver if it have drifted some khz of
[08:37] <SA6BSS-Mike> .dial PS-60
[08:37] <SpacenearUS> 03SA6BSS-Mike: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
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[08:57] <amell> .dial UBSEDS13
[08:57] <SpacenearUS> 03amell: Latest dials for 03UBSEDS13 10(ac0a): none
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[09:40] <VK3DBP> test oline
[09:41] <SM0ULC-Reb> hi
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[09:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP9UOB - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB
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[10:14] <SA6BSS-Mike> anyone nows how to decode tj9 packets from ps-58?? 0233 -23 0.4 1622 @ 02KA4V8Z54M15
[10:14] <SA6BSS-Mike> searched picospace but cant find any info
[10:14] <amell> jt9?
[10:16] <amell> found it now?
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[10:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Clifton Chase_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Clifton%20Chase_chase
[10:43] <VK3DBP> any melbourne folk following ps-60?
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[10:55] <SA6BSS-Mike> did not know that on wspr ps58 call is vk3anh and on jt9 it looks like its vk3yt
[10:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SKRUFFY - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SKRUFFY
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[12:59] <DanielRichman> is back
[12:59] <DanielRichman> thanks be to Upu
[12:59] <Upu> LittleP1xel
[12:59] <Upu> free password
[13:00] <j0nnymac> yo!
[13:01] <j0nnymac> folks - can i ask a quick q?
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> sure
[13:01] <j0nnymac> someone kindly mentioned here yesterday that balloons under a certain size dont require a faa/caa exemption to launch
[13:01] <j0nnymac> ?
[13:02] <j0nnymac> i was wondering where i could find the full lowdown on the specs
[13:02] <j0nnymac> of balloons that do not require the exemption - as not having to get an exemption would be massive
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> In the UK. if youre entire payload and balloon at all times falls within a 2m sphere (including expansion as it goes up) there is no requirement to notify of launch
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> that is all of the requirement.
[13:02] <j0nnymac> that is awesome
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> It only requires notification if you launch more than 10000 per square kilometer every 15 minutes
[13:03] <j0nnymac> i can launch 10000 of these puppies in 1 square km?
[13:03] <j0nnymac> and still not require notification??
[13:03] <j0nnymac> wowser
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> The above basically means that you are constrained to balloons that will burst at under 2m in diameter
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> Or will not expand.
[13:04] <j0nnymac> ok - so a foil type balloon?
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> that works well
[13:04] <j0nnymac> are we talking about the noddy ones i can get from various Stationary/Birthday Card shops?
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-64/ - for an example of what can be done well within that limit
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> yes
[13:05] <j0nnymac> or do i need something more...
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> Broadly
[13:05] <j0nnymac> aah wow
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[13:05] <j0nnymac> im guessing that restrictions in airspace still apply in terms of not launching them near airports etc?
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?appid=11&mode=detail&id=226 are the actual regulations
[13:07] <j0nnymac> aah brilliant - thanks
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> Search on 'small balloon' - most of the regulations do not apply.
[13:07] <j0nnymac> just looking at that dudes' balloon travels
[13:07] <j0nnymac> thats amazing!!
[13:07] <j0nnymac> oh and thank you
[13:07] <j0nnymac> :)
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> That was not quite a standard balloon, but a DIY one
[13:08] <j0nnymac> still tho...
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> made from similar material
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> The major limit on party balloons is that they can't go over the weather really
[13:08] <j0nnymac> id love to do this sort of things for the primary schools in our area - but the regulations for large balloons make it difficult to do. THis sounds like it would be ideal
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - a small tracker that can get to 8km altitude, and fly for several hours is very doable
[13:10] <j0nnymac> hmm... would it be considered 'taking the michael' if you connected a number of these little balloons and payloads together?
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[13:10] <j0nnymac> or would that fall foul of the 2m diameter
[13:10] <j0nnymac> rule
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> You really do not want to risk any intepretation that could possibly be ruled against
[13:10] <j0nnymac> fair play
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> seperate unconnected launches is however fine
[13:11] <mfa298> if they're connected together I don't think you could really call them entities/ systems
[13:11] <j0nnymac> gotcha... yeah makes sense. i suspect 50 balloons strung together might raise a few eyebrows
[13:12] <j0nnymac> aye - methinks your right :)
[13:12] <mfa298> people have used 2 of the 36" balloons for a under 2m launch, although I'm not sure you get much extra lifting power and a lot more issues.
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[13:29] <garymortimer> UBSEDS still expected over Iceland today? I guess that's a silly question
[13:39] <j0nnymac> ooh interesting on the 36' balloon
[13:40] <j0nnymac> hmm folks how do i add someones name to a message like <mfa298>
[13:40] <SpeedEvil> j0nnymac: you type the name
[13:41] <j0nnymac> speedevil aaaah!
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> their client will highlight them when it sees their name - you don't need to do anything else
[13:41] <j0nnymac> hmm
[13:41] <eroomde> usually it tab completes
[13:41] <j0nnymac> SpeedEvil that work
[13:41] <SpeedEvil> yes
[13:41] <j0nnymac> tsk...
[13:41] <eroomde> so j0[tab] gives me j0nnymac
[13:41] <j0nnymac> aah
[13:41] <j0nnymac> eroomde: aha!
[13:42] <j0nnymac> ok - prepare yourselves...
[13:42] <j0nnymac> what if
[13:42] <j0nnymac> you had a hollow polysterene orb
[13:42] <j0nnymac> <2m
[13:42] <j0nnymac> with the balloon inside it
[13:43] <j0nnymac> would the polysterene prevent the balloon from bursting due to lack of pressure?
[13:43] <j0nnymac> (i can actually hear the smacking of hands on foreheads all over the world) :)
[13:44] <Ian_> :)
[13:44] <eroomde> the wall thickness of polystyrene required to take the pressure difference without cracking open would probably give it a mass higher than the lift you'd get from the vaolume of helium or hydrogen
[13:45] <eroomde> there are much better materials for this if you want to go down that road
[13:45] <j0nnymac> really?
[13:45] <eroomde> yes
[13:45] <j0nnymac> is it workable?
[13:45] <eroomde> a superpressure balloon is what you just described
[13:45] <j0nnymac> understood
[13:45] <eroomde> a balloon that doesn't burst but just takes the pressure-difference until the whole system becomes bouyant
[13:46] <eroomde> that's how all the round-the-world flights have worked so far
[13:46] <j0nnymac> aahhh
[13:46] <j0nnymac> gotcha - yeah i was wondering how that worked.
[13:46] <j0nnymac> so there is a 'thing' for that... :)
[13:47] <eroomde> yes
[13:47] <j0nnymac> and is that feasible with a <2m balloon+payload?
[13:47] <eroomde> that's what all the round-the-world flights have been so far
[13:47] <eroomde> under the 2m exemption
[13:47] <j0nnymac> genius
[13:47] <eroomde> it's much easier at small scales
[13:47] <eroomde> it gets harder as you scale up and you have to put a lot more science into the design and construction of the balloon
[13:47] <j0nnymac> what sort of payload weight can you carry with a <2m round the world balloon?
[13:48] <j0nnymac> i would literally have NO idea how to construct a balloon :(
[13:48] <eroomde> nasa do it with multi-tonne payloads lofted for week and weeks, and their balloons are built to an extremely demanding specification
[13:48] <eroomde> 20g or so
[13:48] <j0nnymac> hmm..thats not very much
[13:48] <eroomde> i think most of the round-the-word payloads have been <20g
[13:48] <eroomde> no but it's enough
[13:49] <j0nnymac> i was thinking about transmitting back kml data so folks could follow along on google maps in realtime
[13:49] <eroomde> you are familiar with habhub?
[13:49] <j0nnymac> but sounds tricky to do in under 20g
[13:49] <eroomde> no
[13:50] <j0nnymac> yep for sure - but it was the 3d element i wanted to explore
[13:50] <eroomde> it's not tricky at all but nor is it probably the right way to do it
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[13:50] <eroomde> sure but you can track in 3d
[13:50] <j0nnymac> really? on habhub?
[13:50] <eroomde> i mean, it's not a hard problem to get an auto-updating kml file, assuming the telemetry has got from the balloon to the internet somehow, e.g. via habhub
[13:50] <j0nnymac> oh i seee.....
[13:50] <j0nnymac> yes :)
[13:51] <j0nnymac> understand now
[13:51] <eroomde> it's not really a payload issue, the solution lies in a different part of the stack
[13:51] <j0nnymac> transmit to habhub
[13:51] <eroomde> yeah
[13:51] <j0nnymac> take the data and convert to kml on the ground
[13:51] <j0nnymac> then let folks play along
[13:51] <eroomde> yep
[13:51] <j0nnymac> legendary!!
[13:51] <j0nnymac> ha!
[13:51] <j0nnymac> yes
[13:51] <j0nnymac> :)
[13:51] <eroomde> in the past the live-updating kml thing has existed
[13:51] <j0nnymac> thanks! it simple now you have described it
[13:52] <j0nnymac> well not simple... but understandable
[13:52] <eroomde> i'm not sure it still does just because of demand or maybe it still does but the url isn't anywhere or something, but it's an easy addition
[13:52] <adamgreig> habhub already outputs KML
[13:52] <adamgreig> http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[13:53] <mattbrejza> live kml though
[13:53] <adamgreig> the KML it generates is always up to date but doesn't include the KML live updating business
[13:53] <j0nnymac> aaha!!
[13:53] <adamgreig> indeed
[13:53] <adamgreig> not hard to add I imagine
[13:53] <adamgreig> we can fairly trivially construct a URL that hosts some transformation on a payload's telemetry log
[13:53] <mattbrejza> it definietly existed when leos ones were going round
[13:53] <adamgreig> which is all those CSV and KML things are
[13:54] <j0nnymac> if i managed to find someone - would there be an objection of trying to resurrect that functionality for habhub?
[13:54] <j0nnymac> someone = someone to actually do the work :)
[13:55] <adamgreig> https://github.com/ukhas/habitat-export-payload-telemetry
[13:55] <adamgreig> sure
[13:55] <adamgreig> that generates KML currently
[13:55] <adamgreig> https://github.com/ukhas/habitat-export-payload-telemetry/blob/master/habitat_export_payload_telemetry/lists.py#L48-L124
[13:55] <j0nnymac> sweeet
[13:56] <j0nnymac> hmm...i think ive found the next project :)
[13:56] <j0nnymac> round the world trip and a way for people to view it in realtime in 3d
[13:57] <mattbrejza> the old kml usedto just link to href>http://spacenear.us/tracker/data.php?format=kml</href>
[13:57] <adamgreig> lol
[13:57] <eroomde> the former is about 10^7 more of a project than the latter
[13:57] <adamgreig> that probably works too, who knows
[13:57] <adamgreig> yea the latter is maybe a half hour writing a ten liner in python
[13:57] <adamgreig> the former has been done once or twice by amateurs ever?
[13:57] <mattbrejza> well google earth doesnt like it anymore, but you click the link you get a 28MBfile
[13:57] <lz1dev> http://tracker.habhub.org/track.kml
[13:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> On the current tracker, click the "" icon and just below the ballon flights due is a link to an autoupdating KML file for GE.
[13:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> "?" Icon
[13:58] <mattbrejza> ah, updated to <href>http://spacenear.us/tracker/datanew.php?format=kml</href>
[13:59] <adamgreig> well there you go, it does already do it
[13:59] <eroomde> j0nnymac: that lz1dev link is what you want
[13:59] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Its my main way of tracking, you can also change the parameters to select just the balloons you want.
[13:59] <eroomde> already does it
[14:00] <j0nnymac> aah im with you ...
[14:00] <j0nnymac> thing is - what i was thinking about was the 3d tour
[14:00] <j0nnymac> and having that displayed in realtime
[14:00] <j0nnymac> if that makes sense
[14:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Well once in GE you can fly abut yourself!
[14:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> !wiki google earth
[14:01] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE-Lap: Wiki page 03using_google_earth - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/using_google_earth
[14:01] <j0nnymac> ooh
[14:01] <eroomde> GE does seem to have been a bit abandoned
[14:01] <eroomde> at least as a standalone application
[14:02] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Couldn't live without it!
[14:02] <lz1dev> yep
[14:02] <j0nnymac> im with you...(i think) but i understand that the 3d tour works only once the entire and complete kml file has been provided to GE (so an after the event kml file)
[14:03] <j0nnymac> my 'dream' is to have a 3d tour based on the realtime update of the kml based on the data from the balloon
[14:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> But you can only do a tour after the event not real time, Tours are created by people
[14:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Once using GE you fly your own tour, using the controls
[14:04] <lz1dev> GE is now part of maps
[14:04] <j0nnymac> yep - i think im describing it badly
[14:04] <eroomde> i know what you mean j0nnymac
[14:04] <eroomde> you want it to be as if there was a webcam on the payload
[14:04] <eroomde> what it sees is what you see
[14:04] <eroomde> just in GE
[14:04] <j0nnymac> eroomde: Boom! you got it
[14:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Right that gets very boring after a while, you want to see the balloon in relation to other things
[14:05] <eroomde> i was going to say
[14:05] <eroomde> might aswell set up a live feed of some paint drying
[14:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> So flying at the same height or even half height works very well and offset by a suitable amount then you see the landscape and the balloon
[14:05] <j0nnymac> yes... true. i think it would be cool for a demonstration to kiddies tho - 20 mins of where the balloon is today
[14:06] <j0nnymac> cant imagine anyone watching is as prime time telly
[14:06] <eroomde> the movement of a balloon relative to earth km below is not that exciting as a continuous thing to watch
[14:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> How long can you watch the ISS Live feed for ?
[14:06] <j0nnymac> yeah - i hear you
[14:06] <eroomde> if you could do a potted set of movements from a current balloon position that'd be interesting
[14:06] <eroomde> a little sweep around and maybe a zoom out and up to see if relative to earth
[14:06] <j0nnymac> ooh how you mean?
[14:06] <eroomde> or something, i dunno
[14:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> I did a tour for B-64 hangon
[14:06] <j0nnymac> yes i see what you mean
[14:07] <j0nnymac> yep..so a kind of a 'fly by'
[14:07] <mattbrejza> a 2min version of a weeks worth of balloon travel might be alright to watch
[14:07] <j0nnymac> and finishing up with the balloons perspective
[14:07] <j0nnymac> yep.. that would be epic
[14:07] <eroomde> arund the world in 80 seconds
[14:08] <j0nnymac> hmm.. actually
[14:08] <j0nnymac> that might be a bit simpler too
[14:08] <j0nnymac> when someone wanted to view
[14:08] <j0nnymac> you dynamically create a mini tour for them
[14:09] <j0nnymac> based on the last 2 mins of daa
[14:09] <j0nnymac> data
[14:09] <j0nnymac> inc the flyby
[14:09] <j0nnymac> then finishing with the last position from the balloons perspective
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[14:10] <j0nnymac> gosh - thanks everyone
[14:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Here you go this is the World tour for B-64 - rather boting I think ;-) http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/B-64_20140712/B-64%20World%20Tour.kmz
[14:10] <j0nnymac> this is beginning to sound doable and actually something people might want to watch too
[14:10] <j0nnymac> lets peek
[14:11] <j0nnymac> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap: fella this is awesome
[14:12] <mfa298> for the round the world flights the data is often filled in later, whilst over the oceans there's nothing to hear the telemetry, so it's been stored and then re-sent by the payload as backlog data.
[14:13] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> The Object Movies can be more interesting as you are in control of a simple control set http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/B-64_20140712/B-64_20140712-2ndC.html
[14:13] <mfa298> so a daily, this is where the balloon has been could be challenging at times.
[14:15] <j0nnymac> understood - but i reckon thats ok - might actually make it a bit more 'mysterious'
[14:15] <j0nnymac> 'will it ever appear again' 'has it crashed' 'abducted by aliens'
[14:16] <j0nnymac> could anthropomorphise it
[14:16] <mfa298> round the world is quite challenging from various aspects, you're probably better off doing up/down launches, or floaters you don't intend to recover and only expect to last up to a day.
[14:16] <adamgreig> i would avoid anthropomorphising something whose only fate is dying of exposure
[14:16] <mfa298> once you've got there add in the extra complexity and legallities.
[14:16] <j0nnymac> :)
[14:17] <adamgreig> there are no happy endings here
[14:17] <j0nnymac> no... maybe i could call it Major Tom
[14:17] <j0nnymac> a lego man, bravely piloting his ship off into the void - for the good of mankind and my amusement
[14:18] <j0nnymac> then hold a ceremony for him after
[14:18] <j0nnymac> :)
[14:18] <j0nnymac> oh cr*p legallities
[14:18] <j0nnymac> yeah - im guessing there are lots of those
[14:18] <Ian_> That's not the UKHAS ethos
[14:19] <j0nnymac> but im guessing these have been mastered with previous RtW flights?
[14:20] <j0nnymac> Ian_: indeed - i didnt mean to ignore them - only disappointed that they have reared their head
[14:21] <Ian_> It is the regulation that Amateur Radio in the UK is not permitted airborne that has caused they UKHAS network to develop as it has.
[14:22] <Ian_> The impediment has become a strength, although ISM band isn't good for round the world flights, the ethos of complying with regulations is a basic one.
[14:22] <j0nnymac> for sure - its not one that id be keen on breaking
[14:23] <j0nnymac> if this is for a <2m balloon though - and this RtW balloon flights have been done before successfully, im assuming that its possible to do within regulations?
[14:23] <Ian_> Where an interpretation of the rules has been found to be misunderstood, it is corrected. Notice the recent flight where the geofencing turned off APRS over USA because it was discovered that the US regs \
[14:24] <Ian_> make it clear that home regulations prevail when in US airspace. ergo No airborne on a UK licence.
[14:25] <j0nnymac> let me think on that one for a bit - is the crux that the RtW flights arent really legal, where we want to monitor progress?
[14:26] <j0nnymac> (if the pass over US airspace)
[14:26] <Ian_> The B series of flights by Leo used ISM where possible and cut to geofenced APRS when out of ISM band range. APRS under his amateur radio licence.
[14:26] <j0nnymac> ok...
[14:27] <j0nnymac> still getting it around the world to even approaching US airspace wold be a win
[14:27] <Ian_> At that time is wasn't realised that a UK callsign wasn't legit flying in US airspace.
[14:27] <j0nnymac> aaah
[14:27] <j0nnymac> ok
[14:28] <j0nnymac> right...more to think about - thanks everyone!!
[14:28] <Ian_> The community listens, learns about new wrinkles and attempts to comply to the best of it's ability
[14:29] <R34lB0rg> us/nasa didn't pay the littering fine for skylab for 30 years
[14:29] <Ian_> Alas, if it came to the bit, ignorance is no defence in law. That seems to be a universal truth.
[14:29] <Ian_> I think that most people here has a personal reputation that they value.
[14:31] <Ian_> It is a wide ranging subject once you start peeking under the wrinkles. Main thing, enjoy it
[14:36] <mfa298> legally you can't use APRS on a UK license outside of (most of) the EU and a few countries that have agreed to the CEPT agreement. You'll also need to work up to the Full/Advanced license for APRS use outside of the UK
[14:37] <mattbrejza> or get a us licence?
[14:37] <adamgreig> can't use a US licence in the UK for APRS of course
[14:37] <mfa298> you're also supposed to check the rules in places you visit.
[14:37] <adamgreig> there's some talk that CEPT requires you by physically present in the corresponding country
[14:37] <adamgreig> s/by/be
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[14:38] <mfa298> some people have have bent/broken rules through ignorance or choice but thats not something anyone here is likely to encourage.
[14:39] <mattbrejza> perhaps jsut dont read the rules too hard then ;)
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[14:46] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Maybe in mind that AR is self policing, so provided you don't cause interference outside of an amateur priamary band no one other than the amateurs are likely to get worried!
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[15:26] <j0nnymac> gosh - all seems a bit fraught
[15:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03CLIFTON1 after 0318 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CLIFTON1
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[16:06] <mfa298> j0nnymac: if you start of small and just aim for local flights initially you should be able to get something going, then build up from there
[16:06] <mfa298> depending on where you are you might find others locally that might be interested or that will let you join in a launch
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[16:09] <j0nnymac> cheers mfa298 - sounds like good advice!
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[16:24] <j0nnymac> soo...
[16:25] <j0nnymac> last year - you guys very very kindly helped me and the guys from Imperial do a really cool straight up and straight down HAB (much love and thanks to the legends over at Churchill College)
[16:26] <j0nnymac> is there anyone out there who would be interested in joining in with a Round the World balloon ? If I was able to supply funding for balloon/tech and also some really awesome engineers from IMperial?
[16:27] <j0nnymac> im over in the UK and based in Hampshire
[16:29] <jcoxon> j0nnymac, i'm sure people would be keen - might need to also email the mailing list
[16:30] <j0nnymac> aaah brilliant - ill seek out the mailing list (also please to tweet me on @j0nnymac or email me jon_mcnam@uk.ibm.com)
[16:30] <j0nnymac> thanks jcoxon !
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[16:36] <mfa298> theres a reasonable number of people around Hampshire, Southampton Uni has a decent sized space flight society.
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[16:36] <mfa298> only downside is with round the world attempts is it can take a fair number of attempts
[16:40] <garymortimer> I shall watch your RTW with interest, have a look at the JT9 transmissions of the PS series, folks around the world are setting up to hear those just because they are so unusual. PS-58 is currently on teh equator, ex Melborne
[16:41] <j0nnymac> understood...
[16:41] <j0nnymac> mfa298: do you mean in terms of getting all the way around the world - or in terms of the package ascending and never being heard from again?
[16:42] <garymortimer> If you click it you will see the receiving stations, one is in South Africa like me and the other the USA at the minute. All utter magic and very hard to do right I think
[16:42] <mattbrejza> how long do they have to do this? the summer term?
[16:43] <j0nnymac> From March > June timeframe
[16:43] <mattbrejza> certianly doable if theyre good with smd pcb design and embeded electronics
[16:44] <mfa298> j0nnymac: getting an envelope to stay up long enough is the first challenge, then getting the electronics to last the same time
[16:44] <j0nnymac> mattbrejza: i was thinking of cheating wildly and as hugely as possible with pre-built components :)
[16:44] <garymortimer> You can't buy them
[16:44] <j0nnymac> to reduce risk
[16:45] <j0nnymac> can i use something like BigRedBee?
[16:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> to get the weight down they have to be custom
[16:45] <garymortimer> The chap running the PS makes it look easy but just look at the flight number
[16:45] <mfa298> it took Leo something like 60 attempts, and I'm guessing something similar for the PS series
[16:45] <garymortimer> No thats way way tooooooo heavy
[16:46] <j0nnymac> rats
[16:46] <mfa298> for round the world on a small balloon you need a very light tracker, 20g is heavy for that sort of flight, I suspect BigRedBee is many times that weight
[16:46] <mattbrejza> ubseds is 'only' at 13...
[16:46] <j0nnymac> they should be good with components though - they will be Msc Electronic and Electrical engineering students
[16:47] <j0nnymac> 60 attempts - ouch
[16:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> The Tx is 14 Grams alone less battery GPS etc
[16:47] <mattbrejza> well depends, most imperial students just go into banking
[16:47] <mfa298> j0nnymac: http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/B-64/index.html this is what Leo did
[16:47] <j0nnymac> :)
[16:47] <mattbrejza> or you might get hte ones who are really good at control theory but know nothign about SMD, PCBs, etc
[16:48] <j0nnymac> i love the idea of it being up there for over 100 days
[16:49] <j0nnymac> understood on the level of difficulty level though
[16:50] <j0nnymac> hmm...
[16:50] <mattbrejza> if the tracker they produce only ever goes on a up/down flight on a 100g balloon (which is notam free) then thats still them having done something
[16:51] <richardeoin> the ubseds ballons are a couple of Msc EEE students and friends (I'm one of them!)
[16:51] <mattbrejza> dont need to bother with the camera and paylaod design like last time
[16:51] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> A complete Beeline package is 56 Grams with a battery for 8 hours and wouldn't stand the temperatures either!
[16:51] <richardeoin> It's taken ~18 months on and off to get this far
[16:51] <adamgreig> and don't let richardeoin understate their skill here
[16:52] <j0nnymac> fair play - yep its starting to sound very very hard now...
[16:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NN5RR-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NN5RR-11
[16:52] <richardeoin> yep we had experience of SMD and ARM microcontrollers before this
[16:52] <mfa298> Leo did that with a custom envelope and 11g payload, UBSEDS13 is also custom envelope although slightly heavier tracker but is dependant on the single AA battery lasting for long enough to get round the world
[16:53] <j0nnymac> gotcha
[16:54] <richardeoin> the custom envelope took a while to develop too
[16:54] <jcoxon> j0nnymac, we still want you to try though!
[16:54] <mfa298> Leo went down the ajust something and launch approach hence the large number of balloons, at one point it was pratically one a day.
[16:54] <richardeoin> we've had the material since September iirc?
[16:54] <j0nnymac> haha!!! dude :)
[16:55] <jcoxon> richardeoin, could you build a big balloon?
[16:55] <mfa298> I suspect UBSEDS have done a lot more design and testing of payloads before launch (no doubt richardeoin will correct me if im wrong)
[16:56] <mattbrejza> j0nnymac: it could always be a continuing project, with next years intake continuing hte project
[16:56] <richardeoin> mfa298: yeah, being uni students we have access to a cold chamber, a machine for stressing the material and such
[16:57] <richardeoin> access to that is effectively free to us, while launching is ~£80 a go
[16:57] <j0nnymac> good point that mattbrejza
[16:57] <j0nnymac> not one id thought about before
[16:57] <mattbrejza> so if this years have a working prototype but too big thats fine as you can test on a larger balloon, then get next years lot to make smaller and improve the code
[16:58] <richardeoin> jcoxon: yeah, I think you could scale it up to ~5 meters diameter or so
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[16:58] <mattbrejza> someone at ibm might even take it up as their little project for a while during the summer?
[16:58] <richardeoin> that gets you to ~22km and 100-200g payload
[16:58] <jcoxon> higher float altitude...
[16:58] <richardeoin> just a model mind
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[16:58] <richardeoin> I'd like to bring some UBSEDS13-style envelopes to EMF if that sounds like fun adamgreig mattbrejza jcoxon ? and anyone else who's coming
[16:58] <j0nnymac> i have to admit - it would be amazing for the engineers to walk away with a real launch
[16:58] <j0nnymac> as you say though
[16:58] <mattbrejza> richardeoin: cant see why you shouldnt bring them :)
[16:58] <mattbrejza> and yea, everyones coming again
[16:58] <adamgreig> please do yea
[16:59] <richardeoin> woo great
[16:59] <jcoxon> would be worth looking into launch permission before hand
[16:59] <j0nnymac> with the aim being a RtW at a later date - and the Proof of Concepts are designed to work toward that goal
[16:59] <mattbrejza> ive already got my ticket actually
[16:59] <richardeoin> I'm not sure on how to transport them yet
[16:59] <jcoxon> richardeoin, fl
[16:59] <jcoxon> y
[16:59] <mattbrejza> jcoxon: emf will be <5am or <2m
[17:00] <adamgreig> in other words <2m
[17:00] <mattbrejza> 5am is light mind you
[17:00] <richardeoin> I've got my ticket too
[17:00] <adamgreig> i have a ticket :D
[17:00] <mattbrejza> shrug, just stay up all night
[17:00] <adamgreig> and a to-do submit something to cfp
[17:00] <jcoxon> might be worth a hyperthetical ask
[17:00] <adamgreig> from emf or caa?
[17:00] <jcoxon> both really
[17:00] <jcoxon> just to tick all the boxes
[17:00] <richardeoin> I recall being up well after midnight yep
[17:00] <adamgreig> last year emf were fine with a launch and it was <2m
[17:00] <mattbrejza> well we'ev been declined for somewhere quite near, but asking wont hurt i guess
[17:00] <adamgreig> i don't see the point in asking for a <2m
[17:00] <mattbrejza> i wasnt suggesting we ask for <2m
[17:01] <adamgreig> it's specifically legal, there's no point them giving you a permission/exemption
[17:01] <jcoxon> as it would be awesome to launch old school
[17:01] <adamgreig> the caa that is
[17:01] <jcoxon> with a 1600
[17:01] <adamgreig> that could be fun
[17:01] <j0nnymac> whats 'old school'?
[17:01] Action: jcoxon is printing a new ballast design like ballasthalo
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[17:01] <mattbrejza> hmm, launch at midnight is probably fine too
[17:01] <jcoxon> caa doesn't like night time launches
[17:02] <jcoxon> we could just get adamgreig to launch it before he goes to bed at 5am
[17:02] <adamgreig> lol
[17:02] <jcoxon> j0nnymac, using large weather balloons rather than superpressure pico balloons
[17:02] <j0nnymac> aaahhh
[17:02] <mattbrejza> or you could drive 30mins away and launch? not quite as good i know
[17:03] <adamgreig> we've had a latex launch at both previous EMFs
[17:03] <jcoxon> mattbrejza, lets ask russss if emf would be happy
[17:03] <mattbrejza> could have a balloon tracker app on the badges
[17:03] <adamgreig> both times with permission from emf
[17:03] <richardeoin> superpressure picos need pretty good conditions
[17:03] <richardeoin> or you get a UBSEDS12
[17:03] <jcoxon> mattbrejza, nice ukhasnet demo...
[17:03] <mattbrejza> i think it was mentioned in #emfcamp previously..?
[17:03] <richardeoin> which was an identical envelope btw
[17:03] <russss> we have no objection to a balloon launch but I think the conclusion would be that the CAA might
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[17:04] <jcoxon> we should ask david miller a little nearer the time
[17:05] <j0nnymac> good ol' Dave :)
[17:06] <mattbrejza> the issue isnt a specific airport, rather planes just hang out in that general area before landing
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[17:09] <j0nnymac> k folks - im outa here - thanks eversomuch for all the pointers and help - hugely appreciated!!!
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[17:13] <garymortimer> So what time do we think UBSEDS will arrive back in view?
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[17:23] <SA6BSS-Mike> 8pm to 4am
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[17:25] <garymortimer> Thanks Mike
[17:26] <garymortimer> And thats Iceland
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[17:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS13 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS13
[17:33] <Upu> heh
[17:33] <Upu> welcome to Iceland :)
[17:33] <jcoxon> hooray
[17:33] <Upu> ping richardeoin
[17:33] <jcoxon> garymortimer, how did you know...
[17:33] <richardeoin> evening
[17:34] <richardeoin> silly thing still alive?
[17:34] <Upu> yup
[17:34] <Upu> whats the batteri ?
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[17:34] <Upu> Battery even
[17:34] <jcoxon> i think its an AA energizer
[17:35] <Upu> some power saving :)
[17:35] <Upu> afk
[17:36] <jcoxon> we are lucky that the packet came through
[17:36] <jcoxon> no other stations that far north
[17:36] <daveake> Energize to use tht battery for some advertising ... "up yours, Duracell rabbit"
[17:36] <daveake> Energizer should ^
[17:37] <garymortimer> Get in
[17:37] <craag> 1.439v lol
[17:38] <garymortimer> jcoxon it was in the tea leafs
[17:38] <jcoxon> :-)
[17:38] <jcoxon> so next stop will be north norway
[17:38] <richardeoin> yep, AA ultimate lithium
[17:39] <richardeoin> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/bristol-seds/bristol-seds.github.io/master/assets/flights/13/energizer.jpg
[17:39] <garymortimer> Its amazing to watch well done all
[17:39] <richardeoin> it says 'world's longest lasting' on the packet
[17:39] <garymortimer> So it must be! Just aa single one...
[17:39] <richardeoin> yep, just one
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[17:40] <garymortimer> Amazing
[17:40] <richardeoin> bought in tesco eastville extra I imagine
[17:40] <jcoxon> good work richardeoin
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[17:59] <garymortimer> It won't be long before that balloon has gone around the world Bristol is about 2.5 W and its about 28W now
[18:01] <Laurenceb_> a day or two
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[18:10] <MarkIreland> Anyone used a FlashForge Creator Pro 3d printer?
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[18:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9QBK-6 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9QBK-6
[18:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03XE1TRY-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=XE1TRY-11
[19:09] <SA6BSS-Mike> ubseds hysplt http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/180151_trj001.gif
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[19:13] <SA6BSS-Mike> ps-58 calling in on wspr, still kicking, was released 29 Dec. and still just over half way around the globe :)
[19:16] <xxx> Can anybody tell me what the encoding scheme is for the two lines telemery sent in JT9 for PS-58? Can't find any documentation for it, Thanks.
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[19:23] <lz1dev> xxx: my guess is that you won't find it anywhere
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[19:24] <lz1dev> try http://picospace.net/
[19:29] <Ian_> http://picospace.net/?p=736
[19:30] <Ian_> Was what you seemed to be asking for before you left yesterday xxx
[19:31] <xxx> Thanks for the response lz1dev, I did try picospace.net and no documentation there.
[19:32] <xxx> Ian - Fldigi has more bandwidth than JT9 so encoding is much simpler. Yeah I'm still looking for what goes in to encoding those two text lines in JT9. Would like to find out without having to reverse engineer it.
[19:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-58 after 0314 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-58
[19:49] <lz1dev> xxx: why not look at the source code for wspr?
[19:50] <mfa298> xxx: I suspect the most information you might find is on http://picospace.net/?p=1118
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[20:13] <xxx> lz1dev - The specially modified version of wsjt-x just uploads the two output text lines from jt9 up to a web site where the decoding is done and the results are then uploaded to the snus site.
[20:13] <lz1dev> doesn't picospace mention the format?
[20:15] <lz1dev> oh it's for CW
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[20:38] <Upu> ping fab4space
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[23:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Yay UBSEDS is over Iceland!
[23:19] <Vaizki> yes I'm waiting for it...
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[23:20] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Current height would put it on a red track
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[23:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Soyes might come within range
[23:21] <Vaizki> yes.. might not come this south.. but Finland is chock-full of APRS so it'll be tracked
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[23:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Not going to be traveling fast however so things might change yet .....
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[23:23] <Vaizki> looks like it will circumnavigate on Wednesday morning 0500 UTC or so at this rate
[23:23] <Vaizki> I hope it makes it, great flight
[23:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Better sort out a GE KML file for it tomorrow!
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[23:26] Action: Laurenceb_ has written a sim of a longwave IR generator for picos
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> turns out the a 12cm diameter collector weighting 14grams would power UBSEDS13
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)
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[23:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Can it be made from PCB material with the tracker on the top/bottommiddle ?
[23:28] <Laurenceb_> maybe
[23:28] <Laurenceb_> it'd need a large collector area
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> and copper foil would get heavy, I was modelling graphene foil for panasonic
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> *from
[23:30] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Right I'll leave you to ponder and simulate that whilst I go for my beauty sleep ;-)
[23:31] <daveake> see you next week
[23:31] <daveake> (which is tomorrow ofc) :p
[23:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> See you next month
[23:31] <daveake> ditto
[23:32] <Vaizki> macbook pro retina 13" usb booted to text mode linux.. damn this text is small
[23:32] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> afk
[23:32] <Vaizki> greetings from February
[23:32] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> ;-)
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[00:00] --- Mon Feb 1 2016