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[01:19] <Ian_> I think that they have, after many years, added DC blocking capacitors to the ceramic IF filters to stop induced deafness over time.
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[01:56] <xxx> Where can I find some documentation on the encoding used by ps-58 in the jt9 mode?
[01:57] <Ian_> xxx the UK is in bed now, US and the antipodes may be able to answer your question, but best you enquire later in the UK day when those in the know are likely to be awake.
[01:58] <xxx> Thanks!
[02:01] <Ian_> You are welcome. I believe that Darkside (Aus) may have a clue. I believe that ps-58 comes from that neck of the woods
[02:01] <Ian_> For now though, it's goodnight from me
[02:01] <xxx> Goodnight & I'll try tomorrow.....
[02:02] <Ian_> Your tomorrow, my today!
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[04:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Its me_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Its%20me_chase
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[06:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03CLIFTON1 after 0316 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CLIFTON1
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[08:07] <fsphil> morning folks
[08:08] <eroomde> howdy fsphil
[08:08] <SpeedEvil> hey
[08:09] <R34lB0rg> morning
[08:18] <SA6BSS-Mike> Morning, got 11 spots from ps-58 pased night, new record for me :)
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[08:24] <SA6BSS-Mike> ehh, make that 12 its still comming through
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[08:35] <R34lB0rg> great to see its still alive
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[08:58] <xxx> Where can I find some documentation on the encoding used by ps-58 in the jt9 mode?
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[09:02] <AndyEsser> morning
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[09:07] <Upu> possibly on http://picospace.net/ xxx
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[09:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS13 after 034 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS13
[09:22] <AndyEsser> o?
[09:23] <fsphil> canada eh
[09:23] <fsphil> impressive
[09:25] <fsphil> this could make it all the way around
[09:30] <lz1dev> wow at the hysplit
[09:30] <lz1dev> .hysplit UBSEDS13
[09:30] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: HYSPLIT for 03UBSEDS13 - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/160129-04_127664_UBSEDS13.gif
[09:31] <SpeedEvil> Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
[09:32] <lz1dev> one of those lines predicts 10am today
[09:32] <lz1dev> next to that position
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[10:28] <Vaizki> go go UBSEDS13
[10:29] <Vaizki> need a new hysplit though
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[10:53] <SA6BSS-Mike> that must have been a deepfreezed ballon warmíng up over US :) nice one!!! cant wait to se a solar power tracker from UB
[10:57] <Vaizki> so why is the hysplit not updating?
[10:59] <Vaizki> surprised that the APRS igate in Fairbanks, Alaska didn't catch UBSEDS13
[11:00] <Vaizki> HAAT 390m.. :)
[11:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-12
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[11:19] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> It probably will once its been there a little while I think it gets updated twice a day.
[11:19] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Yes its there now.
[11:19] <Vaizki> yes just noticed.. coming back home
[11:20] <Vaizki> which was to be expected since it didn't go off into the arctic
[11:21] <richardeoin> wow how is that still alive
[11:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Does it do a back log over time ?
[11:22] <richardeoin> It won't transmit over the US at all, maybe why it wasn't picked up over Alaska
[11:22] <richardeoin> yep it transmits backlog in APRS packets
[11:23] <richardeoin> should be about a week at one hour resolution
[11:23] <SM0ULC-Reb> I thought it didn't have solar?
[11:23] <richardeoin> it doesn't, it's been running off a AA battery
[11:24] <SM0ULC-Reb> impressive
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[11:27] <Vaizki> the voltage reporting must be broken
[11:27] <R34lB0rg> aliens must have been recharging the battery, or maybe cold fusion ;-)
[11:27] <Vaizki> one does not cross the pacific and the north american continent without dropping 0.01 of voltage from an AA .. :)
[11:27] <AndyEsser> I thought someone confirmed that it was solar recharged?
[11:29] <SM0ULC-Reb> R34lB0rg: i would go for cold fusion
[11:29] <R34lB0rg> SM0ULC-Reb, good choice, lot's of myons up there ;)
[11:31] <R34lB0rg> using a nimh battery one could connect a small solar cell with no circuit
[11:34] <SA6BSS-Mike> it probably been so cold so the circiut/batter turned of fore some period - not consuming any power
[11:34] <SA6BSS-Mike> richard said it should have power for a week
[11:34] <daveake> NiMh capacity drops to nothing at -40
[11:35] <Vaizki> and lipos should not be charged below zero.. screwed
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[11:36] <AndyEsser> Microwave power transmitted down from orbit
[11:36] <SM0ULC-Reb> daveake: nice video with lora. are you using bidirectional link to resend lost packets?
[11:36] <R34lB0rg> daveake, nimh convert energy to heat once they are fully charged
[11:36] <daveake> yup
[11:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> That's what he is using, just that we orbot the Sun!
[11:37] <daveake> R34lB0rg It won't be fully charged
[11:37] <daveake> Good luck making it actually work
[11:37] <R34lB0rg> if the isolation is good the battery would be warm enough to start charging in the morning and could heat up in the evening
[11:38] <daveake> could would should. won't
[11:38] <daveake> SM0ULC-Reb Yes Tx 55 seconds/minute, leaving a nice large easy-to-hit :-) gap for the uplink
[11:38] <R34lB0rg> daveake, you can calculate how much solar power and isolation you need
[11:38] <daveake> Let me know when you've done it
[11:39] <daveake> GPS timed but it has a Python script to poll Phil's server, so the Tx time can move around a bit
[11:39] <SM0ULC-Reb> daveake: nice
[11:39] <daveake> I wrote (quite a bit of) code to do the missing-packet check locally
[11:40] <SM0ULC-Reb> daveake: ah, you poll for lost packets from the server?
[11:40] <daveake> Yes - that's the correct place for it
[11:40] <fsphil> it's a recent addition
[11:40] <daveake> A single gateway won't otherwise know what other gateways have received
[11:41] <SM0ULC-Reb> daveake: right, was not sure how far you had come width it
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[11:41] <daveake> The resending all worked beforee when I was doing the local missing-packet check
[11:42] <daveake> I've not yet tested the whole thing with Phil's code, but all the parts work
[11:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Good to hear that the eye op. worked OK as well daveake !
[11:42] <daveake> ah yeah, ta, bbig relief :-)
[11:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> I bet!
[11:43] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Which Yagi are you using on 868Mhz ?
[11:43] <daveake> Upu has dodgy eyes too, so don't ever ask either of us to spot a payload coming in to land :p
[11:43] <daveake> "there it is" "nope that's a spot in my eye"
[11:43] <daveake> LPRS 868 I *think*
[11:43] <mattbrejza> perhaps the damage was done from straining to see habs landing in the past
[11:44] <daveake> Someone on ebay had several to sell at around £35
[11:44] <daveake> :-). Nah, just being very myopic + getting old
[11:44] <daveake> Should have bought more of them at that price :/
[11:44] <fsphil> I misread that as "being very magic"
[11:44] <daveake> (Yagis, not eyes)
[11:44] <fsphil> I may need new eyes too
[11:44] <daveake> that too lol
[11:45] <fsphil> getting old wouldn't be so bad if you gained magic abilities
[11:46] <daveake> Nah, you just get more grumpy
[11:47] <R34lB0rg> http://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-New-7x-18mm-Monocular-Golf-Distance-Range-Finder-Telescope-Travel-Outdoor-Sport-p-49108.html
[11:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Right, have to get my aerials down at some point so debating to put an 868 up, looking at this one so far http://www.rfsolutions.co.uk/acatalog/info_ANT_MF_YAG23.html
[11:48] <daveake> Looks fine
[11:48] <daveake> Upu sells 868 pre-amps, in case you neeed one
[11:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Indeed, less likely to need to Tx as well so could put that up the top more easily.
[11:49] <daveake> I was hoping to do the test flight yesterday, but fogot about the eye check :/
[11:49] <daveake> You'd soon be over erp limits txing anyway :)
[11:50] <daveake> (not sure who'd actually car given where it would be pointing)
[11:50] <daveake> care
[11:50] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> True ;-)
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[11:51] <fsphil> ofcom have spies everywhere
[11:51] <R34lB0rg> do weather stations usually use commercial telemetry devices?
[11:52] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Normally custom built on the same board as the sensors.
[11:52] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes Vaisala mostly
[11:53] <R34lB0rg> any idea about the frequency / data format / success tracking them?
[11:53] <SA6BSS-Mike> 401-406Mhz
[11:53] <Vostok_> vaisala telemetry uses 3G/4G modems
[11:53] <Vostok_> at least road weather stations
[11:53] <SA6BSS-Mike> they do have gps and you can track them and go get them as they fall down
[11:53] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Vaisala use a variety of devices!!
[11:54] <Vostok_> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap: yes i know :)
[11:54] <SA6BSS-Mike> most common rs92?
[11:54] <R34lB0rg> local weather station told me they launch a 390g payload twice a day
[11:54] <Vostok_> i'm sitting at the vaisala office right now
[11:54] <fl_0> http://www.radiosonde.eu/RS00-D/RS00-D.html
[11:54] <Darkside> vaisala RS92's are easy to track
[11:54] <fl_0> apparently german or french
[11:54] <Darkside> use sondemonitor
[11:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> But none of them are seperate transmitters normally intergrated at the chip level.
[11:54] <Upu> !aprs list
[11:54] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Tracking via APRS: 03DK3SB-10, 03DK3SB-8, 03KD5ZPL-11, 03KD9DBI-11, 03KG5KNM-11, 03M0SBU-11 10(UBSEDS13), 03M0UPU-7, 03M0UPU-8, 03M0UPU-9, 03SP3OSJ-12
[11:54] <Vostok_> oh, so you're talking about sondes
[11:54] <Vaizki> flying weather stations are called sondes
[11:54] <daveake> yeah I did wonder
[11:54] <daveake> weather station = thinkg I have on a pole in the garden
[11:54] <Vaizki> and they are 400MHz and yes people track and find them
[11:54] <Vaizki> google it
[11:55] <R34lB0rg> weather station = zamg.at
[11:55] <Darkside> i think i have a blog post on it :P
[11:55] <Vaizki> at least the older ones don't do gps solutions themselves, I think they send down what they receive and the ground station has to do the position solution
[11:55] <Darkside> Vaizki: yeah i think only the RS41 has the onboard gps
[11:55] <SA6BSS-Mike> yesw that right
[11:56] <fl_0> https://twitter.com/flo_0_/status/681998173875781632
[11:56] <fl_0> for example
[11:56] <Vostok_> fourth generation radiosondes use gps
[11:56] <fl_0> :)
[11:56] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes I heard, will be interesting to track as the become widly used
[11:56] <Darkside> i recovered one on tuesday
[11:56] <Darkside> a RS92SGPA that is
[11:56] <Darkside> no RS41s flying here yet
[11:57] <SA6BSS-Mike> great, have a couple of the at home to
[11:57] <SM0ULC-Reb> You know your RG-58 i nice and fresh with the label "W. Germany" on it.
[11:57] <AndyEsser> ha
[11:57] <Vostok_> Darkside: my office is 20 meters away from where it was manufactured :)
[11:57] <SA6BSS-Mike> the gps antenna and lna is great for L band antenna
[11:57] <Darkside> Vostok_: hah
[11:57] <Darkside> Vostok_: vaisala are dicks
[11:57] <Vostok_> :D
[11:57] <Darkside> so much custom silicon stuff on them
[11:58] <Darkside> i wasn't able to pull the transmitter into the 70cm band ether :(
[11:58] <Darkside> VCO control voltage cant go high enough
[11:58] <SA6BSS-Mike> the just go to like 425Mhz ?
[11:58] <Darkside> it just gets over 420mhz
[11:58] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok
[11:58] <Darkside> yeah, and we lost 420-430MHz out of our 70cm band a few years bck
[11:59] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok , whats new allocaton for the band
[11:59] <SA6BSS-Mike> ?
[11:59] <Darkside> we have 430-450 here in australia
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[11:59] <Darkside> used to be 420-450
[12:00] <SA6BSS-Mike> oki, got 432-438 in Eu/sweden
[12:00] <Vaizki> well it's still 20MHz..
[12:00] <SA6BSS-Mike> so u still better of :()
[12:00] <Darkside> has anyone figured out how to talk to the sensor daughterboard in the sondes?
[12:00] <Darkside> because its a nice temp sensor
[12:00] <SA6BSS-Mike> Vostok_: whats gps is used on the rs41?
[12:00] <Darkside> SA6BSS-Mike: ublox!
[12:00] <SA6BSS-Mike> ohhh!!
[12:01] <Darkside> with a chip antenna
[12:01] <Darkside> and the micro is a STM32
[12:01] <SA6BSS-Mike> a MAX one?
[12:01] <Darkside> the RS41 is eminintly hackable
[12:01] <Darkside> nah
[12:01] <Darkside> single chip thing
[12:01] <Darkside> separate crustal
[12:01] <Darkside> crystal*
[12:01] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok
[12:01] <Darkside> i really want to get my hands on one
[12:01] <Darkside> also the radio is a SiLabs part
[12:01] <SA6BSS-Mike> nice, no more cutom parts
[12:02] <Darkside> yeah
[12:02] <Darkside> which is nice
[12:02] <Darkside> i dont think anyone has had a change to try and hack one yet though
[12:02] <Darkside> i.e. dump firmware, reprogram the STM32 etc
[12:02] <Darkside> see if they have set fuses
[12:02] <Darkside> i also hard rumours that they stop transmitting after burst?
[12:03] <mattbrejza> you could always repalce their stm32 part with your own if the erase protect is set
[12:03] <SA6BSS-Mike> interesting times to come :) lunch over
[12:03] <R34lB0rg> is it possible to search aprs.fi for balloons / high altitude?
[12:03] <Darkside> cant remember hwere i heard that though
[12:03] <Darkside> R34lB0rg: not really...
[12:03] <Darkside> im not even sure if you can search by SSID (the number after the - in a callsign)
[12:03] <SA6BSS-Mike> try to search for *-11 might get you somewhere
[12:03] <Darkside> mm
[12:04] <Darkside> thats about all i can think of
[12:07] <Vaizki> R34lB0rg, create a custom filter for altitude
[12:08] <fl_0> or filter symbol "/O"
[12:08] <fl_0> showing balloons
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[12:10] <fl_0> R34lB0rg: http://picpaste.de/pics/db5b3356a86a402bbe2b6b830003b4d7.1454069409.png
[12:10] <fl_0> ;-)
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[12:25] <R34lB0rg> http://aprs.fi/info/a/L1914275 <- hungarian balloon?
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[12:27] <lz1dev> .aprs list-bal-url 2
[12:27] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Recent balloons: http://aprs.fi/SQ9RHX-11,SV1BGR,ED1ZAR-11,SQ3DVQ-11,OK1RPL-10,DC2EH-12,SQ1FTK-12,PU5NEN-11,SQ6SFN-11,EA5DOM-11,SQ5RZP-11,PU3XGS-11,M0SBU-11,9W2BPA-9,DG4AM-10,SP5RZP-11,OK1LPD-11,DM2HB-11,N4XWC-1,SQ6OMN-11
[12:27] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Recent balloons: http://aprs.fi/CT2KAZ-11,DL2BWO-11,SQ9UU-11,EA2SW-11,PY4ZBZ-11,DG1SUL-11,SQ5NWI-14,DB1OFH-11,DO9BAU-12,DO9BAU-11
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[12:34] <j0nnymac> Yo!
[12:39] <craag> Hi j0nnymac
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[12:40] <j0nnymac> hey hey
[12:40] <j0nnymac> just checking in
[12:41] <j0nnymac> anything exciting happening in the world of High Alt'?
[12:42] <craag> UBSEDS13 has floated the wrong way round the world to canada, running on 1x AA battery
[12:42] <j0nnymac> wow!!!
[12:42] <craag> http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS13
[12:42] <j0nnymac> hey what did the CAA & FAA think about that?
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[12:42] <craag> It's a pico balloon, <2m across
[12:43] <j0nnymac> aaah ok
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[12:43] <craag> So it's exempt from launch permission in the UK
[12:43] <j0nnymac> reaaaally???
[12:43] <j0nnymac> :)
[12:43] <j0nnymac> how high do those little chaps go?
[12:44] <craag> max we've seen are the B- series, mostly in 2014, that reached nearly 13km iirc
[12:44] <craag> they're small superpressure envelopes
[12:45] <j0nnymac> thats pretty awesome
[12:45] <j0nnymac> 100g weight limit tho
[12:46] <craag> practically roughly yes
[12:46] <craag> although with a 100g latex balloon you could probably lift a bit more on a burst flight
[12:46] <craag> it just wouldn't go very high
[12:47] <j0nnymac> hey is the little chap still running?
[12:47] <j0nnymac> looks like he is at 9k alt still?
[12:47] <craag> yes, new position came in 12s ago now
[12:47] <craag> 9.5m
[12:47] <craag> *km
[12:48] <j0nnymac> thats brilliant - hugely inspirational
[12:48] <craag> hmm I think it might turn off APRS when it crosses into USA
[12:48] <Vaizki> right now it's in the US of A
[12:48] <j0nnymac> do you still get awesome pics of earth curvature at 10k alt?
[12:49] <craag> not noticably
[12:49] <Vaizki> as good as looking out a plane window...
[12:49] <j0nnymac> shame...
[12:49] <j0nnymac> yeah gothca
[12:49] <j0nnymac> gotcha
[12:49] <j0nnymac> still tho...
[12:50] <j0nnymac> how long did it take to make it to canada (going the long way round)
[12:50] <craag> Launched ~12:45 pm on 20th Jan
[12:51] <craag> from Bristol
[12:51] <Vostok_> SA6BSS-Mike: can't leak anything, sorry :P
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[13:17] <mfa298> half those awesome pics of the earths curvature are just bad lenses on cameras
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[13:19] <Vostok_> "bad lenses" .......
[13:21] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[13:21] <mfa298> you get a curvature like https://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/6976571051/
[13:23] <mfa298> bad in terms of they can add extra distortion to the image, either making the curvature more pronounced, or making the curvature go the wrong way
[13:24] <fsphil> they do a pretty good job of making it curve at ground level :)
[13:27] <Upu> richardeoin is UBSEDS13 transmitting on 434 where its ?
[13:28] <richardeoin> Upu: no, only aprs on 144.39
[13:28] <Upu> ah ok
[13:28] <Upu> Jim has a 70cms setup
[13:28] <Upu> N2NXZ
[13:30] <richardeoin> ah I didn't know about any 434 receivers in the US
[13:30] <richardeoin> apart from arko, and there's a special section in the geofence for him
[13:30] <richardeoin> http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/assets/flights/13/geofences/ubseds13_uhf_geofence_world_millar_cylindrical.jpg
[13:31] <craag> :D
[13:31] <eroomde> what's the bit in california?
[13:31] <eroomde> arko?
[13:31] <eroomde> oh tyou said that
[13:31] <eroomde> lol
[13:31] <eroomde> sorry
[13:31] <eroomde> too slow
[13:31] <Upu> heh
[13:32] <Upu> yeah around the area you're in now we have a few
[13:32] <Upu> one in Canada and Jim in Rochester
[13:32] <Upu> and if you make it to Alabama you have Bill Brown
[13:33] <richardeoin> I'll add the whole of the US and Canada to 434 for the next flight
[13:33] <Upu> he's already on your case :)
[13:33] <Upu> I see UBSEDS13 positioned over Canada....it says that it is sending out APRS signals but I have no idea what the APRS callsign is? Any details on what balloon they are flying and payload weights etc?
[13:33] <Upu> - Bill WB8ELK
[13:34] <richardeoin> this one was rather agressive on the power saving
[13:34] <craag> awesomely so :)
[13:34] <craag> 9 days!
[13:35] <richardeoin> >50% of the energy goes on the GPS tbh
[13:35] <richardeoin> APRS is next to nothing because it's so short
[13:36] <richardeoin> ah I've seen WB8ELK launch a few APRS picos himself
[13:37] <Laurenceb_> nice
[13:37] <Laurenceb_> looks like the GPS wasnt a big issue
[13:38] <richardeoin> yes APRS as M0SBU-11, and http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/hab/flight/2016/01/20/ubseds13.html for details Upu
[13:38] <Laurenceb_> thats got to be a record for battery only
[13:38] <Laurenceb_> iirc previously nobody has managed more than 5 days?
[13:38] <richardeoin> the GPS issues will have wasted some power, would still like to fix them
[13:39] <Laurenceb_> its doing APRS every 2 minutes ?
[13:39] <richardeoin> I don't know of anything longer from a single battery
[13:40] <richardeoin> Laurenceb_: should be every 4
[13:40] <Laurenceb_> ok
[13:40] <Laurenceb_> looks like its close to flat tho? -5C, ~1.4v
[13:41] <richardeoin> it's hard to tell
[13:42] <richardeoin> I imagine the battery temperature is somewhere between the external thermistor and the MS5607
[13:42] <richardeoin> battery d/s: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
[13:42] <Laurenceb_> it probably wont make it, but I bet you could do circumnavigation with battery only
[13:44] <Laurenceb_> already 75% of the way
[13:44] <Vaizki> well it may make it but we won't know :)
[13:45] <richardeoin> I'd give it a couple more days of daylight operation
[13:46] <richardeoin> may go silent at night depending on the temperature
[13:46] <Laurenceb_> do you have the pressure data over aprs?
[13:46] <Vaizki> richardeoin, when you turn the radio on, does it take significant time to stabilize on frequency?
[13:48] <richardeoin> Vaizki: Yes, if it's cold
[13:48] <richardeoin> we saw this on the first night over the UK and France
[13:48] <Vaizki> just wondering about your comment on the short burst of aprs
[13:49] <richardeoin> it won't change much over a 1-2 second aprs packet
[13:49] <richardeoin> since APRS is FM it's pretty resistant to small frequency offsets
[13:49] <Vaizki> right, so how far off 144.800 was it the first night?
[13:49] <Laurenceb_> interesting altitude profile
[13:50] <Laurenceb_> shows how cold the atmosphere is over the arctic
[13:50] <Laurenceb_> 1km lower
[13:50] <richardeoin> Vaizki: It was about 4kHz off on 434.6MHz on the first night
[13:51] <richardeoin> which would mean ~1.3kHz off on 144.8MHz
[13:51] <richardeoin> since it's 5kHz wide FM that wouldn't make much difference
[13:55] <Laurenceb_> its a bit faster than PS-58
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[13:56] <richardeoin> Laurenceb_: No pressure data over APRS to keep the packet a reasonable length
[13:56] <Laurenceb_> ah, was interested to see if it was still broken
[13:58] <Laurenceb_> hmm I wonder if longwave IR power would work
[13:59] <Laurenceb_> looks like it uses about 13mW
[14:00] <Laurenceb_> a 12cm diameter IR collector is ~15mW, so might work
[14:01] <Laurenceb_> this was an idea from a while back, a peltier element with sheets of copper foil on the top and bottom, with aerogel insulation inbetween
[14:01] <richardeoin> Yeah, 13mW is a reasonable estimate
[14:01] <Laurenceb_> coat copper with carbon black and stick some bubble wrap over the lower surface, it should develop 30C or so temperature difference at ~10km
[14:02] <Laurenceb_> it'd need a lot of design fine tuning and maybe a test flight or two, but it seems to be feasible
[14:02] <richardeoin> the goal was about 5mW, but that only works if the GPS takes < 5s to get a fix every time
[14:02] <Laurenceb_> might be worth using the low power mode
[14:02] <richardeoin> I remember you discussing it Laurenceb_
[14:02] <Laurenceb_> that would be ~900µW for the GPS
[14:04] <Laurenceb_> I was reading some of the nasa papers on RTG design, lots of useful design rules that could go into an infrared collector
[14:04] <richardeoin> Yeah the micropower mode just means it wakes itself up from hibernate whenever it fancies
[14:05] <richardeoin> So ~30mA at 1% duty cycle
[14:05] <Laurenceb_> yeah, probably a good plan to try that
[14:06] <Laurenceb_> I just like infrared power as its novel :D
[14:06] <Laurenceb_> you have ~400W/m^2 of infrared 24/7 at 10km, so plenty of energy if you can harvest it
[14:09] <richardeoin> yep IR does sound interesting
[14:11] <Laurenceb_> theres a lot of problems, most of the off the shelf peltiers have poor efficiency at ~-50C, itd need one of the coolers for low temperature photodetectors perhaps
[14:12] <R34lB0rg> peltiers can heat pretty well below -50
[14:12] <richardeoin> ah okay, can't just buy a £5 one from ebay :D
[14:12] <Laurenceb_> lol so can a resistor
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[14:14] <Laurenceb_> I bet some nasa researchers have worked this all out... somewhere in their archives :D
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[14:15] <Laurenceb_> its basically a "passive" RTG
[14:17] <richardeoin> haha would a stirling engine be more efficient?
[14:17] <richardeoin> :P
[14:18] <Laurenceb_> way more faff
[14:21] <richardeoin> yeah a <20g stirling engine is pretty out there
[14:25] <Laurenceb_> http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc3612/m2/1/high_res_d/thesis.pdf
[14:31] <Laurenceb_> 1.454v wtf
[14:31] <Laurenceb_> its practically as good as new
[14:34] <AndyEsser> fsphil: I get concerned when you like my tweets...
[14:35] <Laurenceb_> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/7123911/?grossPrice=Y&cm_mmc=UK-PLA-_-google-_-PLA_UK_EN_HVAC_And_Fans_And_Thermal_Management-_-Electronics_Heating_And_Cooling&mkwid=sbt935kvW_dc|pcrid|88057039923|pkw||pmt||prd|7123911&gclid=CIf5to6ez8oCFUHGGwodxKYDuA
[14:35] <Laurenceb_> http://www.shop.customthermoelectric.com/01801-9G30-20CN-Thermoelectric-Peltier-Mini-Module-01801-9G30-20CN.htm;jsessionid=4C6139B277E1B403668893A16796CF58.m1plqscsfapp05
[14:37] <Laurenceb_> http://www.buyaerogel.com/product/spaceloft-10-mm-cut-to-size/
[14:37] <Laurenceb_> those products might just work
[14:44] <j0nnymac> hmm...id like to experiment with a pico - is there anywhere you can purchase (dont hit me) a gps/sensor/transmitter payload?
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[14:48] <Vaizki> pecan pico?
[14:49] <Vaizki> I think they sold them.. not 100% sure though
[14:50] <Upu> don't think they sold them DL7AD ?
[14:50] <Upu> I don't know anyone who sells Picos
[14:50] <DL7AD> no we dont sell them
[14:50] <DL7AD> due to 2 reasons.
[14:50] <DL7AD> it takes long to assemble them
[14:51] <DL7AD> you can to 100 or so with a machine
[14:51] <DL7AD> but to get a reasonable price you have to do 100 or so
[14:51] <DL7AD> and thats an amount of money which i simply dont have
[14:52] <mattbrejza> or just charge for your time to assemble them
[14:52] <mattbrejza> that aprs tracker is like £200 or so for some through hole components?
[14:52] <DL7AD> :P
[14:52] <DL7AD> yes true
[14:53] <mattbrejza> http://www.bigredbee.com/blgps_2mhp.htm
[14:53] <mattbrejza> $265
[14:54] <DL7AD> im a bit in hurry. cu
[14:54] <j0nnymac> ooh
[14:54] <j0nnymac> ta!
[14:55] <j0nnymac> aaah
[14:55] <mattbrejza> i wouldnt call that a pico though...
[14:56] <j0nnymac> 6 AA's
[14:56] <j0nnymac> wowser
[14:56] <j0nnymac> still with enough little balloons...
[14:56] <craag> 6x 9+ days.. so that'll do 2 months right?
[14:57] <mattbrejza> <2m limit though
[14:57] <DL7AD> btw we are going currently for a full APRS/RTTY tracker. (pico 7) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzVllHCGu5FM2Z1NHVoSFFVZ1k/view?usp=sharing
[14:57] <DL7AD> on the end theres a camera connected
[14:58] <mattbrejza> lol no wonder it takes ages to assemble
[14:58] <mattbrejza> that must be a pain
[14:58] <craag> yikes
[14:58] <mattbrejza> is that a camera with a jpg encoder or are you doing it real time on the stm32?
[14:59] <craag> top of the line stm32
[14:59] <craag> f4-wise
[14:59] <DL7AD> its an BGA176+25
[15:00] <DL7AD> we handsolder them
[15:00] <mattbrejza> persumably the 0.8mm ball one?
[15:00] <Laurenceb_> with hot air?
[15:00] <craag> does have DCMI, so ov2640 would work
[15:00] <DL7AD> no
[15:00] <DL7AD> with a crepes plate :P
[15:00] <Laurenceb_> that gps antenna is ... interesting
[15:00] <Laurenceb_> does that get a lock?
[15:00] <craag> hah
[15:00] <craag> didn't see that tucked away there :P
[15:01] <DL7AD> Laurenceb_: havent tried it it. its works with my gps simulator
[15:01] <DL7AD> GPS-RF-simulator
[15:01] <craag> :/
[15:01] <craag> you might have some fun with that
[15:02] <DL7AD> we soldered already 3 of them. and we never had a problem with the BGA
[15:02] <DL7AD> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzVllHCGu5FWFpxbHFTZ1BSMTA/view?usp=sharing
[15:02] <adamgreig> what's IC15?
[15:03] <DL7AD> adamgreig: hold on
[15:03] <craag> did someone get the camera connector the wrong way round? :P
[15:03] <DL7AD> :P no..... :D
[15:03] <DL7AD> yes unfortunately
[15:04] <Laurenceb_> heh
[15:04] <Laurenceb_> did you know that SSDV over APRS has been demonstrated?
[15:04] <craag> I did the same on dcmi at work, noticed before fab luckily ;)
[15:04] <DL7AD> adamgreig: its a 9axis sensor
[15:04] <craag> that camera connector rather, wasn't using dcmi for that one
[15:05] <DL7AD> unfortunately i have to say, that atm the camera is the only part, which doesnt work
[15:05] <adamgreig> is it MPU-9250?
[15:05] <DL7AD> but i havent investigated further what the problem is
[15:06] <DL7AD> adamgreig: yes
[15:06] <adamgreig> I mean it looks a lot like it, but you've got a copper pad for its thermal which it says to not do
[15:06] <DL7AD> adamgreig: really?
[15:07] <DL7AD> but why does the chip have copper below?
[15:07] <adamgreig> it's very mysterious
[15:07] <adamgreig> probably to shield its magno from currents
[15:07] <adamgreig> which is exactly why you don't solder it
[15:07] <adamgreig> check out their evaluation board for example
[15:07] <IUBAVM> Upu - are you online?
[15:08] <DL7AD> adamgreig: will do that
[15:08] <DL7AD> adamgreig: anyway. i'm currently doing a rev2 where i fix all the errors on the master branch
[15:09] <adamgreig> http://www.digikey.com/Web%20Export/Supplier%20Content/invensense-1428/pdf/invensense-mems-handling.pdf?redirected=1
[15:09] <adamgreig> The exposed die pad is not required for heat
[15:09] <adamgreig> sinking, and should not be soldered to the PCB. Failure to adhere to this rule can induce performance changes due to package
[15:10] <adamgreig> thermo-mechanical stress. There is no electrical connection between the pad and the CMOS.
[15:12] <DL7AD> okay
[15:13] <adamgreig> they hide that in another document :P
[15:13] <DL7AD> adamgreig: *rollingeyes*
[15:13] <DL7AD> thats for the hint
[15:13] <adamgreig> np
[15:13] <adamgreig> I came across it because the datasheet didn't say anything at all about the exposed pad so I went hunting
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> lul
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> maybe thats the only leadframe they had
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> mpu accelerometer sucks hto
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> good enough for some basic applications I guess
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[15:15] <fab4space> adafruit.com seems down isn't it?
[15:16] <craag> yes
[15:16] <AndyEsser> http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/adafruit.com.html
[15:17] <AndyEsser> confirms, that yes, it's down
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> 1.464v, wow
[15:17] <fab4space> ok thanks craag AndyEsser
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> looking at the discharge curve I get 5 more days, enough to reach europe
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[15:19] <fab4space> it works again now ?!
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[15:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WP4POG-4 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WP4POG-4
[15:56] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI868 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI868
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[16:31] <Oddstr13> hm... Now would be a good time to have the license and a radio..
[16:31] Action: Oddstr13 goes to start preparing for the storm
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[16:32] <Oddstr13> power loss probable...
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[16:39] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Preparing for a storm sometimes means bringing the aerials down!
[16:45] <R34lB0rg> unless you have a genuine desire to explore free energy for real
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[16:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03amardeep_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=amardeep_chase
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[17:01] <Oddstr13> not a thunderstorm... afaik
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[17:08] <Oddstr13> Tor is hitting the coast, and we can get up to 50m/s wind gusts even inland
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[18:06] <fsphil> AndyEsser: it's a scary section of the shop that
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[18:37] <what> t
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[18:38] Nick change: what -> Ian_g0pai
[18:39] <Ian_g0pai> t
[18:40] <Ian_g0pai> Sorry about the noise fellas, Freenode IRC seems to be playing with me at the moment . . .
[18:42] <Ian_g0pai> it Seems that the Nick channel is temporarily unavailable - forgotten me
[18:42] <Ian_g0pai> afk
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[19:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-58 after 0310 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-58
[19:04] <fsphil> woo
[19:04] <fsphil> still top side
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[19:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PS-54 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-54
[19:23] <fsphil> huh, weird numbering scheme they've got there
[19:26] <daveake> upside down
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[20:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK3YT-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK3YT-11
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[20:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PS-60 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-60
[20:26] <fsphil> that's better
[20:26] <daveake> :)
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[21:15] <N2NXZ> Any info if M0SBU-11 still has UHF operational?If so,where on waterfall should it be expected?
[21:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> its not tx:in over US at all
[21:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> no uhf and no aprs
[21:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> *uhf = rtty
[21:17] <N2NXZ> I just saw it TX Updated: 2016-01-29 16:12:57 (4m) Position: 37°50.04' N 74°12.98' W
[21:18] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes its leavong the US so its on aprs 144.390
[21:18] <N2NXZ> In DlFldigi is shows it may have 434.600,wondered if it was TX`ing as well so I can relay to a friend on East coast
[21:19] <SA6BSS-Mike> http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/assets/flights/13/geofences/ubseds13_uhf_geofence_world_millar_cylindrical.jpg
[21:19] <mattbrejza> why no aprs?
[21:19] <SA6BSS-Mike> there u see where its tx on uhf
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[21:21] <craag> mattbrejza: Someone pointed out that US amateur radio says for visiting licenses you have to follow the rules of your home country too
[21:21] <SA6BSS-Mike> richardeoin: ubseds over Atlantic now, it tx:ing again over Eastcost US
[21:21] <mattbrejza> oh
[21:22] <mattbrejza> it also says that unattended beacons can be turned off if needed?
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[21:23] <craag> yeah but one is doing something forbidden, the other is not being able to do something in the very unlikely scenario that you're asked to.
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[21:24] <mattbrejza> just borrow someone elses US callsign...
[21:24] <mattbrejza> or perhaps just dont read the rules too hard
[21:25] <SA6BSS-Mike> To have fun u realy have to go by the last statement :)
[21:25] <mattbrejza> its not as if anyones checked every over country to see if they have that clause
[21:26] <craag> most countries follow CEPT which doesn't have that clause
[21:26] <craag> US does not follow CEPT
[21:27] <craag> but yeah ;)
[21:27] <daveake> it's all very silly
[21:27] <mattbrejza> oh right (may i refer you to my earlier comment though ;) )
[21:29] <mattbrejza> btw what AWG of nichrome do people use?
[21:30] <mattbrejza> AWG32 only needs 1.3A or so, but might be a bit thin
[21:30] <SA6BSS-Mike> to do what ? relese payload?
[21:30] <mattbrejza> yea cut nylon cord
[21:30] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Why not wrap around a ceramic resistor?
[21:31] <mattbrejza> i would have thought the resistor would need more pwoer
[21:32] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Possibly but surely more to do with surface area?
[21:32] <craag> of which a resistor is going to have much much more?
[21:33] <mattbrejza> yea thats what i was thinking
[21:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Not a small one, whilst half the heat of a coil of wire will be away from a core of nylon?
[21:35] <craag> erm hows that going to be different from a resistor?
[21:36] <craag> ideally you want all heat to be conducted from the heater into the nylon
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[21:36] <craag> you want the length of the nylon that you're heating to be minimal to save power (only need to cut it once!)
[21:37] <craag> hmm does start to depend how you put the nylon against the nichrome
[21:37] <craag> but a smaller diameter is always going to be better
[21:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL0CRE-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL0CRE-11
[21:38] <daveake> My concern is that nichrome is a bit fragile
[21:38] <craag> there is that
[21:38] <craag> but I believe Matt is trying to optimise for power usage
[21:39] <daveake> with a resistor you can just wrap the nylon round it, and have the resistor support the entire payload weight
[21:39] <daveake> for non-americana weights anyway
[21:39] <fsphil> I've never tried to break nichrome, is it brittle?
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[21:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> More than copper yes!
[21:41] <mattbrejza> got a figure handy as to how much power you need to put into a resistor?
[21:41] <mattbrejza> is this a standard "1/4W" one?
[21:41] <daveake> I go for 4W
[21:41] <daveake> and yes 1/4W
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[21:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Needs to be wire wound otherwise it might fuse as opposed to hear up
[21:43] <mattbrejza> so my orignal plan of 3cm of 32AWG nichrome would be fine from a single AA
[21:43] <mattbrejza> 4W from a AA is perhaps pushing it
[21:43] <daveake> wirewound? nah metal film ones are fine
[21:44] <daveake> only needs to work for 5 secs max :)
[21:44] <adamgreig> I use metal film ones to ignite fireworks all the time
[21:44] <adamgreig> just dump 12V through a 10R 1/4W metal film
[21:44] <adamgreig> works a treat
[21:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Arent they laser trimmed with a narrow point that can fuse?
[21:44] <adamgreig> by the time it's fused it's also done its thing, typically
[21:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Ok
[21:46] <mattbrejza> 4W from a 1.5V cell is 'only' 2.6A which is less than what a L91 lithium is rated for continuously
[21:47] <mattbrejza> needs .5ohm resistor though
[21:50] <daveake> To help make sure the line melts, use Dyneema instead of nylon
[21:50] <daveake> Melts at 135C instead 200 and something
[21:50] <mattbrejza> how long does the resistor need to be on for?
[21:51] <daveake> I do 10 secs to be sure, but it should melt in less than 5
[21:52] <mattbrejza> k
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[21:58] <mattbrejza> you could use one of these and just put the string through the hole :P http://uk.farnell.com/vishay-foil-resistors-vpg/fpr-4-t221-0r500-1/resistor-metal-foil-0-5ohm-1-5w/dp/2419237
[22:12] <Darkside> mattbrejza: this for a balloon cutdown/
[22:12] <Darkside> ?
[22:12] <mattbrejza> yea
[22:12] <Darkside> have you seen the mechanics behind our cutdown?
[22:13] <Darkside> https://vimeo.com/channels/projecthorus/44181270
[22:13] <Darkside> no wait
[22:13] <mattbrejza> if its the same as you brought to london then yea
[22:13] <Darkside> wrong video
[22:13] <Darkside> yeah
[22:13] <Darkside> that one
[22:13] <Darkside> with the loop of string
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[22:13] <Darkside> well, what we call brickies line
[22:14] <Darkside> i used 2xlithium AAs to drive the resistive wire
[22:14] <Darkside> but i also power the payload off the same batteries, using a boost converter to keep the voltage up
[22:14] <Darkside> to the payload electronics, not to the nichrome
[22:14] <mattbrejza> yea, i was thinking of doing the same iwth 1xAA
[22:14] <Darkside> mm i didnt have much success
[22:15] <Darkside> i guess a smaller bit of wire would work
[22:15] <mattbrejza> the maths suggests you have to use 2cm of nichrome
[22:15] <Darkside> theres also the pyro option
[22:15] <Darkside> but im still not sure how legal that is
[22:15] <Darkside> also im not actually using nichrome, i'm using 'eureka' wire
[22:15] <mattbrejza> what AWG wire do you use?
[22:15] <mattbrejza> hmm
[22:16] <mattbrejza> how does that differ to nichrome?
[22:16] <Darkside> copper-nickel
[22:16] <Darkside> doesnt seem to go brittle
[22:16] <Darkside> but im not sure where to get it
[22:16] <mattbrejza> ok
[22:16] <Darkside> i was given a huge reel of it out of university wtores
[22:16] <Darkside> stores*
[22:16] <Darkside> if you can do the pyro option, thats a nice way too
[22:17] <mattbrejza> i heard if the nichrome doesnt get overheated its fine?
[22:17] <Darkside> and you can trigger an e-match off 1xAA easily
[22:17] <Darkside> yeah, you dont want nichrome to get red hot
[22:18] <mattbrejza> does seem the easy way would be to use use two AAs
[22:18] <Darkside> yeah
[22:18] <mattbrejza> but the lithuims will put out 3A continuous which is plenrty
[22:18] <Darkside> yeah, easily
[22:18] <mattbrejza> providing you can get the heater low enough resistance
[22:18] <Darkside> just switch through a FET, i didnt bother with any kind of constant current driver
[22:19] <Darkside> i just let the batteries internal resistance limit th ecurrent
[22:19] <mattbrejza> that might make the tracker upset
[22:19] <Darkside> was fun to have the payload sample the battery voltage while the cutdown was active
[22:19] <mattbrejza> but i guess if it resets itll turn off the current
[22:19] <Darkside> i think i saw a payload get down to 0.9V while cutting down
[22:19] <Darkside> boost converter cutoff was 0.8v
[22:19] <mattbrejza> thats 2xAA?
[22:20] <Darkside> yeah, i think that might have been a test on the ground though, not sure
[22:20] <mattbrejza> hmm internal resistance is 60-200 ohms :/
[22:20] <Darkside> i.e. might have been half-flat batteries
[22:20] <Darkside> mattbrejza: short version is, it works
[22:20] <Darkside> experiment, see what you get
[22:20] <mattbrejza> from 2xAA
[22:20] <Darkside> yes, out cutdown payload uses 2xAAs
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[22:21] <mattbrejza> but yea, i shall see
[22:21] <mattbrejza> many thanks
[22:21] <Darkside> the payload electronics run from a boost converter, which keeps the voltae stable above 3.3v
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[22:21] <mattbrejza> btw do you have a photo of your cutdown, i cant remember exactly how you applied pressure on the cord
[22:21] <Darkside> https://vimeo.com/channels/projecthorus/46031355
[22:21] <Darkside> how about a video
[22:22] <mattbrejza> main thing is just working out what current/power you need for the 'heater'
[22:22] <mattbrejza> thanks
[22:22] Nick change: Ian_g0pai -> Ian_
[22:23] <Darkside> around 1 min in
[22:26] <mattbrejza> yea ive found it
[22:26] <mattbrejza> perhaps the reason 1.5V doesnt work is all the heat is conducted away
[22:26] <mattbrejza> so you need more power
[22:26] <Darkside> mm
[22:27] <Darkside> anyway, i much prefer the pyro cutdown method
[22:27] <Darkside> but we still need to
[22:27] <Darkside> A) prove its not illegal
[22:27] <Darkside> B) make sure they wont go off if sitting in a hot field for 4 hours
[22:27] <mattbrejza> hmm
[22:29] <Darkside> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45LL-Buj4w8
[22:29] <Darkside> not a very good video
[22:29] <Darkside> as its a long way away
[22:30] <Darkside> but there was a small capsule above the white payload
[22:30] <mattbrejza> still prefer the sharp one :P
[22:32] <Darkside> ?
[22:32] <Darkside> sharp one?
[22:33] <mattbrejza> https://youtu.be/sHHeOpNwYbw?t=4m26shttps://youtu.be/sHHeOpNwYbw?t=4m26s
[22:33] <mattbrejza> er https://youtu.be/sHHeOpNwYbw?t=4m26s
[22:34] <Darkside> oh right
[22:34] <Darkside> hahaha
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[22:37] <Darkside> oh looks like i'll be getting a visit from a PS-60 balloon
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[23:00] <Baja> hello all
[23:00] <fsphil> howdy
[23:01] <Baja> how many balloons are up at anyone time?
[23:03] <Baja> think i just heard a pin drop.
[23:03] <SA6BSS-Mike> tracked by habitat like 0-8
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[23:04] <Baja> lol... thanks Mike.
[23:04] <fsphil> we're not fans of pins here :)
[23:04] <Baja> oh boy......
[23:04] <Baja> seems like most of this is happening outside of the USA
[23:04] <fsphil> there's a fair bit in the US too
[23:05] <Baja> ok... have never heard of this till i started picking up the Au one on wspr and then read they were launching another today/tomorrow
[23:06] <fsphil> yeah seen PS-60 appearing on the map earlier
[23:07] <Baja> there was a comment about it not working right. Know anything about that?
[23:07] <Baja> the telemetery part of it
[23:08] <fsphil> hadn't heard, but it seems to be working fine
[23:08] <SA6BSS-Mike> ohh the ps-60 is a PS-60 APRS/Olivia PICO balloon
[23:08] <Baja> ok...
[23:09] <SA6BSS-Mike> PS-56 HF PICO balloon CW only no GPS
[23:09] <fsphil> last received just 3 minutes ago
[23:09] <SA6BSS-Mike> this migh be what u heard about http://picospace.net/?p=1050http://picospace.net/?p=1050
[23:10] <Baja> that was/is it.
[23:10] <SA6BSS-Mike> darn othr on 30m , killing all weak signals
[23:11] <Baja> is the group going to try to keep track of it by triangulation of other stations ?
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[23:11] <SA6BSS-Mike> there was on its first lap around the globe, dont know the staus now
[23:12] <mfa298> mattbrejza: if you go for the sharp style cutdown you've got to play the music as well :p
[23:13] <Baja> i got one blasting in here on 30m
[23:13] <mfa298> and then fail to catch it as it drops 3m
[23:13] <mattbrejza> i did..?
[23:14] <mfa298> mattbrejza: I was thinking more like sharps fail
[23:14] <mattbrejza> i thought thats the video i posted?
[23:15] <mfa298> I was meaning if you tried doing a cut down like they did.
[23:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> the hysplit put ubseds over iceland tomorrow afternoon/evening
[23:16] <mfa298> I think the only thing that worked right in that video was playing the countdown theme, and that wasn't done by the sharp team.
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[23:30] <mattbrejza> oh right
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[00:00] --- Sat Jan 30 2016