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[00:02] <Vaizki> I ask only because I have no idea :)
[00:05] <Vaizki> the beverage length is minimum 1/2 wavelength?
[00:06] <Vaizki> I don't have hundreds of feet of space, I live in a "village" .. :)
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[00:10] <AndyEsser> https://goo.gl/kScbPS
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[00:14] <Vaizki> hmmmh I found a clothesline.. which is actually a 15 meter length of steel wire rope and a transparent pvc on top
[00:14] <Vaizki> sounds like a random wire antenna to me?
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[00:24] <R6mco> Vaizki: around 50 - 60m on 10 MHz will do
[00:24] <R6mco> you can bend the wire on the ground (if you like)
[00:25] <R6mco> but have a GOOD grounding/earth rod
[00:25] <Vaizki> I can't put anything on the ground
[00:25] <R6mco> hmm...
[00:25] <Vaizki> my snow plower will eat it in winter
[00:25] <R6mco> ah...
[00:25] <R6mco> you have ground !
[00:26] <Vaizki> my lawnmower will eat it in summer :)
[00:26] <R6mco> but a snow plwer
[00:26] <R6mco> plower
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[00:26] <R6mco> priorities first ! ; -)
[00:27] <Oddstr13> fsphil: there is a currently disabled csv export on the olddb wsprnet page
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[00:27] <Oddstr13> apparently it has been disabled due to a bug, and never fixed or some such
[00:28] <Oddstr13> as such, I don't see any problem in parsing the data from the html, and importing that, other than possibly changing page code
[00:28] <Vaizki> R6mco: I share priorities with the wife :)
[00:29] <R6mco> perhaps reversed ?
[00:30] <R6mco> she shares them with you ? ; -)
[00:30] <Oddstr13> R6mco: how big a problem would electric fence be for receiving on around 10MHz? :P
[00:31] <R6mco> if it's a ticking elec fence .. not as much as if it's not a ticking elec fence ;-)
[00:32] <Oddstr13> 10kV-ish pulses once a second-ish
[00:32] <Oddstr13> spark-overs to ground via grass or otherwise is not uncommon
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[00:33] <R6mco> hmmm
[00:33] <R6mco> the sparks create the QRM ...
[00:33] <Oddstr13> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_fencing#Electric_fence
[00:35] <Oddstr13> I havn't seen any on the SDR at present, but no grass to touch it either in the winter :P
[00:36] <Oddstr13> I have heard electric fence on AM radio in the past
[00:36] <Vaizki> hmm so do I need to use an extra insulator in between if I just string up the antenna with nylon rope?
[00:36] <Vaizki> can't see why..
[00:40] <R6mco> its better to use an isolation transformer
[00:40] <R6mco> (in all cases, elec fence or not)
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[00:40] <R6mco> due to common mode noise
[00:40] <Oddstr13> just a 1:1, few windings around a ferrite, right?
[00:41] <R6mco> could be
[00:41] <R6mco> depends on the impedance of your RX antenna
[00:41] <Oddstr13> no clue! :D
[00:42] <R6mco> but isolated windings on short wave are ALWAYS good
[00:42] <R6mco> due to ... CM (common mode)
[00:43] <Oddstr13> I used that between my radio headset output and laptop mic input
[00:43] <R6mco> impedance mismatch looses relative to CM isolation
[00:43] <Oddstr13> normal commercial AM radio
[00:44] <Oddstr13> I've received DDK, RWM and HAM CW that way in the past
[00:45] <Oddstr13> https://oddstr13.openshell.no/gallery/image/78/
[00:45] <R6mco> electrical isolation (often) helps
[00:45] <Oddstr13> https://oddstr13.openshell.no/gallery/image/76/
[00:46] <R6mco> https://oddstr13.openshell.no/gallery/image/76/ <-- yeah .. !
[00:46] <Oddstr13> not quite sure of how I am able to receive things like that with normal AM, as there probably wouldn't be a carrier for it
[00:47] <Oddstr13> no idea of where that transformer thing came from btw
[00:47] <Oddstr13> probably picked it off a printer or fax machine a long time ago
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[01:33] <kristianpaul> damn rpi2, that 3v3 out cant power a gps rtk module :(
[01:34] <Oddstr13> there is a reason I put a regulator on my rfm69 board, even tho the pi should in theory be fine supplying the current at full load
[01:34] <Oddstr13> better safe than sorry
[01:37] <kristianpaul> than reboots :S
[01:37] <Oddstr13> indeed, or no boot at all!
[01:42] <kristianpaul> i'll try with the usb2uart, it should work, but what a shame i cant use the buit-in ports..
[01:42] <kristianpaul> i'm trying NS-HP btw
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[01:42] <kristianpaul> quite promesing, got 20cm accuracy the other day using a dirty xbee, so it should work with a more plain tranceiver
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[02:43] <radar543> Hi, re ax5arg-1. running dl-fldigi, selected the flight, hit auto configure, tuned radio to 434.450 LSB and could see a trace at 1000Hz on the waterfall. No data received.
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[02:47] <radar543> This is my first time trying to track a balloon with very little setup time. Any pointers. The "active zones" (red lines on frequency axis) were at about 800 Hz and 1200 Hz and there appeared to be possible traces at about +/- 25Hz around the carrier at 1000Hz.
[02:56] <SpeedEvil> Is it possible it's a local interferere?
[02:56] <SpeedEvil> If you're not seeing more than +-25hz, that is not typical transmission
[02:57] <SpeedEvil> kristianpaul: Interestign
[02:58] <radar543> The carrier disappeared a little while age maybe 10 minutes
[03:00] <radar543> I notice that the balloon is down and the chasers appear to be heading for home. Could they have switched it off?
[03:03] <kristianpaul> Oddstr13: i happen to be the raspi B
[03:04] <kristianpaul> bleh i dont know what to do with that thing.. never get usefull
[03:04] <kristianpaul> the B+ worked fine
[03:04] <kristianpaul> SpeedEvil: yeah !
[03:05] <Oddstr13> kristianpaul: got a original model B1 currently serving as a UKHASnet gw myself
[03:06] <kristianpaul> just one ethernet?
[03:06] <kristianpaul> i'll probably try get my rtl-sdr scanner back with it..
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[03:09] <Oddstr13> I've had absolutly no success using anything looking somewhat like a USB device with my pi
[03:09] <Oddstr13> other than the onboard ethernet
[03:09] <Oddstr13> I2C is crap too
[03:09] <Oddstr13> SPI works awesome tho
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[03:11] <Oddstr13> got a B+ somewhere here too.. currently not hooked up to anything
[03:19] <R34lB0rg> Oddstr13, I am running external disks, rtl-sdr, gps from rpi/usb - no problem
[03:27] <Oddstr13> R34lB0rg: what OS, and what model?
[03:28] <R34lB0rg> Pi2B and PiB+ running raspbian wheezy resp. jessie
[03:28] <Oddstr13> using webcam ended in freeze-up, same with the RTL-SDR
[03:28] <Oddstr13> both on the PiB1 and PiB+
[03:28] <R34lB0rg> don't have/know about webcam - rpi cam also worked fine
[03:28] <Oddstr13> have not tested it extensivly on the B+ tho
[03:29] <Oddstr13> oh, I havn't tried the RPi cam, I'm sure that would work flawless
[03:29] <Oddstr13> was some Logitech USB webcam
[03:29] <R34lB0rg> rtl-sdr is better suited for rpi2
[03:30] <kristianpaul> rtl-power works on one B+
[03:30] <Oddstr13> you know, the USB stack on the RPi is rather bad
[03:30] <R34lB0rg> blame logitech - the webcam driver probably had to be reverse-egineered
[03:30] <Laurenceb_> Oddstr13: no shit
[03:31] <R34lB0rg> can we say "the usb stack is bad"?
[03:31] <Laurenceb_> but the most shocking thing is its 10 times better than BBB
[03:31] <Laurenceb_> as if such a thing was possible
[03:31] <Oddstr13> Laurenceb_: ouch
[03:31] <R34lB0rg> BBB?
[03:31] <Oddstr13> beagle bone black
[03:31] <kristianpaul> BB8 ? :troll:
[03:32] <Oddstr13> R34lB0rg: I've had no sucess with USB on the Pi
[03:32] <Laurenceb_> I tried to make a system to SSDV video clips off a GoPro using BBB
[03:32] <Oddstr13> works for a litle while, then it just freezes up
[03:32] <Laurenceb_> that was a _bad_ idea
[03:32] <Oddstr13> I know several other people that hasn't made USB work either
[03:33] <kristianpaul> i guess was intented for a keyboard and a mouse :)
[03:33] <R34lB0rg> Oddstr13, I've seen some rare freezes with rtl-sdr on rpi1 - blamed the driver / slow cpu
[03:33] <Oddstr13> as to the Logitech drivers, the camera has proper linux drivers
[03:33] <R34lB0rg> Oddstr13, raspbian? can you past /proc/cmdline here?
[03:34] <R34lB0rg> as for i2c - i even used a old phone cale to connect a outdoor-sensor and it works fine
[03:34] <Oddstr13> yea, it's the clock stretching thing
[03:34] <Oddstr13> works fine with devices that don't do that
[03:35] <Oddstr13> the AVRs do.
[03:35] <Oddstr13> so, no slave arduino over the I2C
[03:35] <Darkside> all recovered
[03:35] <Darkside> 1km hike into scrib
[03:35] <Oddstr13> Darkside: congrats
[03:36] <Oddstr13> R34lB0rg: the one I have running is a B1, it has known hardware problems with the USB port
[03:36] <Oddstr13> 140mA max iirc
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[03:37] <Oddstr13> no point in attempting to debug the software on it
[03:37] <R34lB0rg> Oddstr13, what are you using for power supply?
[03:37] <Oddstr13> some 2A supply I think
[03:38] <Oddstr13> label is on the backside of the plug, so can't check right now
[03:38] <Oddstr13> but it is more than suffichient
[03:38] <R34lB0rg> I am using 2A raspberry power supply from ebay/china
[03:38] <Oddstr13> and powered USB hub dosn't help either
[03:38] <Oddstr13> so, more like a 1A supply then
[03:39] <R34lB0rg> no problem with charging devices or the rtl-sdr sucking 400mA
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[03:39] <Oddstr13> well, good for you
[03:39] <R34lB0rg> powered usb hub is bad with rpi
[03:39] <Oddstr13> still dosn't work at all on mine
[03:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MTG004 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MTG004
[03:39] <R34lB0rg> current runs back into rpi bypassing the polyfuses
[03:40] <Oddstr13> fully aware a USB hub makes horrible into terrible when it comes to the Pi
[03:40] <R34lB0rg> if the powered hub produced power spikes it may explain your problems
[03:41] <Oddstr13> you know, a powered hub designed properly shouldn't feed power back into the USB master at all
[03:41] <R34lB0rg> tried a usb hub once - been connecting everything directly since
[03:41] <R34lB0rg> i'd rather buy another rpi than plugging a hub in between
[03:41] <Oddstr13> the ethernet chip is also the hub on the pi
[03:42] <Oddstr13> which as far as I gather from articles on the internet is probably much to blame for the problems
[03:43] <Oddstr13> I'd love to try a zero... when those are actually available for purchase for the advertized price
[03:43] <R34lB0rg> its one chip that handles several interfaces
[03:43] <R34lB0rg> yeah, I'm waiting for the zero to become available too
[03:45] <R34lB0rg> that's served by one of my rpis using a bmp180 sensor http://home.hostmaster.org/temperature
[03:45] <Oddstr13> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12097
[03:46] <Oddstr13> https://ukhas.net/nodeInfo?name=OSb0
[03:46] <Oddstr13> OS1 would be my Pi
[03:46] <Oddstr13> acting as a internet gateway
[03:47] <Oddstr13> OSb0 is a atmega328, reporting temperature and voltage measurements over radio
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[06:11] <W5BFF> What's the status on AX5ARG-1??
[06:11] <W5BFF> Is it a floater???
[06:26] <W5BFF> anybody on??
[06:27] <arko> nope
[06:27] <W5BFF> apparently not.
[06:27] <arko> the uk is just waking up
[06:27] <arko> let them have their tea and bbc radio
[06:27] <arko> do not disturb :P
[06:27] <W5BFF> I thought there was supposed to be a balloon launch around now. :)
[06:28] <arko> im joking around
[06:28] <W5BFF> are you a ham??
[06:28] <arko> i pretend im not
[06:28] <arko> im not exactly proud of the fact :(
[06:28] <W5BFF> hmmm... now you're suspect. :)
[06:28] <W5BFF> ...I meant an amateur radio operator.
[06:28] <arko> i know what a radio is
[06:29] <arko> and what waves are
[06:29] <arko> and what modulation is
[06:29] <W5BFF> how about APRS? Do you know what that is??
[06:30] <lz1dev> its a collection of angry people?
[06:31] <W5BFF> I'm sorry. There must be some mistake. This channel was listed on a HAB website. I apologize.
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[06:32] <arko> LOL
[06:32] <arko> awww
[06:32] <lz1dev> ill never understand HAM people
[06:33] <arko> did this person not like the taste of sald?
[06:33] <arko> salt*
[06:33] <arko> HAM people just want to feel important
[06:33] <arko> i get that
[06:33] <arko> i really do
[06:33] <arko> thats why i got my lic
[06:33] <arko> its a collection of angry people? made me lol irl
[06:34] <arko> thankfully, not waking up the other person in the house :P
[06:34] <lz1dev> they respond wierd to question, especially when you don't sign your email with 73
[06:34] <lz1dev> which is a clear sign you are not licensed
[06:35] <arko> lol
[06:40] <lz1dev> http://static.rgp.io/2016-01-26_tr3wx1iwxl.png
[06:41] <Upu> lol
[06:42] <arko> haha
[06:43] <Upu> diplomacy :)
[06:45] <lz1dev> he didnt reply to my subsequent email
[06:45] <lz1dev> vOv
[06:46] <arko> you are my hero lz1dev
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[07:12] <eroomde> lz1dev: ten points to you
[07:19] <lz1dev> what can i spend them on?
[07:20] <SM0ULC-Reb> lz1dev: big point for poking around there.. :) I must get on that APRS-list...
[07:20] <SM0ULC-Reb> lz1dev: you can call coding/tracking-favours here? :)
[07:23] <SM0ULC-Reb> What's the best APRS-list?
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[08:25] <daveake> mornings
[08:26] <daveake> lol @ the rage quit ^
[08:26] <jonsowman> hmm?
[08:26] <daveake> <W5BFF> how about APRS? Do you know what that is??
[08:26] <daveake> <lz1dev> its a collection of angry people?
[08:26] <daveake> then W5BFF quit
[08:27] <jonsowman> oh yes, got it
[08:27] <Darkside> lol
[08:27] <Darkside> oh sear
[08:27] <jonsowman> scrolled back too far
[08:27] <Darkside> and he was asking about our launch too
[08:27] <jonsowman> arko: I know what a radio is
[08:27] <jonsowman> excellent
[08:27] <daveake> love it
[08:27] <daveake> teamwork
[08:29] <UpuWork> asking arko if he knows what radio is like asking Red Adair to put out a candle
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[08:34] <lz1dev> .-.. --- .-..
[08:34] <jonsowman> ;)
[08:34] <UpuWork> had to get a table :)
[08:35] <jonsowman> I guessed from knowing O and the other two are identical
[08:35] <jonsowman> limits the search space somewhat
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[08:40] <daveake> .... .- .... -·-·--
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[08:43] <SM0ULC-Reb> daveake: -·-·-- = ! ?
[08:43] Action: SM0ULC-Reb tired
[08:43] <daveake> http://www.unit-conversion.info/texttools/morse-code/ :)
[08:43] Action: daveake lazy
[08:46] <gonzo_> 0 . |
[08:46] <gonzo_> .0 |
[08:46] <gonzo_> 00. 0|
[08:46] <gonzo_> 0 . 0|
[08:46] <gonzo_> . 0 |
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[08:50] <SM0ULC-Reb> daveake: hu? ..--.. = ? for me :)
[08:50] <SM0ULC-Reb> cool page anyway :)
[08:52] <daveake> perhaps morse fails at unicode
[08:53] <daveake> "?" must be in the character set, otherwise they can't ask "how are your piles today?"
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[08:56] <fsphil> morse pre-dates amateur radio
[08:56] <fsphil> he wasn't a proper ham
[08:57] <daveake> good point
[08:57] <Vaizki> daveake, piles are fully charged and ready to transmit!
[08:58] <jonsowman> :<
[08:58] <SM0ULC-Reb> daveake: my morsecode har rusted a bit since i was in the navy as a radioman (?)
[08:59] Action: fsphil resists
[08:59] <SM0ULC-Reb> daveake: telegraphist it is :)
[09:00] <gonzo_> (yep, amateurs and their piles....)
[09:00] <fsphil> gives new meaning to pileup
[09:00] <Vaizki> I was referring to zamboni piles but nobody gets my jokes :(
[09:00] <Vaizki> curse of a non-native speaker
[09:01] <jonsowman> I got it, I just couldn't see past the alternative definition
[09:01] <gonzo_> we had all the hemorrhoid jokes yesterday
[09:01] <gonzo_> snap
[09:02] <fsphil> I think we've bottomed out now
[09:02] <SpeedEvil> Indeed we did.
[09:02] <SpeedEvil> Piles of them.
[09:02] <jonsowman> if a pun bot existed the #ha logs would be an excellent corpus
[09:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03foxtrot_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=foxtrot_chase
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[09:11] <Vaizki> now you got my brain thinking of words that contain 'pile' dammit.. it won't stop...
[09:12] <Vaizki> fortunately there is instant gratification on the internet http://www.wordfind.com/contains/pile/
[09:13] Action: AndyEsser has to roll back the delete operation from last night
[09:13] Action: AndyEsser cries
[09:14] <fsphil> I bet that takes longer
[09:14] <AndyEsser> At least this one gives me an estimated time
[09:14] <fsphil> but you've got piles of time
[09:14] Action: fsphil already his his coat
[09:14] <AndyEsser> eww.. piles
[09:14] <fsphil> has*
[09:15] <AndyEsser> just stop
[09:15] Action: fsphil steps away from the keyboard
[09:15] <Vaizki> I have stockpile of bad jokes
[09:19] <fsphil> I can't remember the good ones
[09:20] <lz1dev> you should compile a list
[09:22] <fsphil> hide them in christmas crackers
[09:22] <SpeedEvil> http://i.imgur.com/9eerqtS.jpg
[09:23] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: just have to share the sorrow over +4 and light rain :( +9 in the charts for weekend :((
[09:24] <AndyEsser> SM0ULC-Reb: sounds like a D&D Character Sheet you're talking about
[09:24] <Vaizki> yea it's raining heavily here now
[09:24] <gonzo_> hide the jokes or piles??? That could be a shocker at the xmas dinner table
[09:24] <fsphil> lol
[09:24] <Vaizki> honest water
[09:24] <AndyEsser> SpeedEvil: ewww
[09:25] <lz1dev> pile me a river
[09:26] <fsphil> cats. why lasers where invented
[09:27] <gonzo_> only if they are >100W
[09:27] <AndyEsser> I really don't see the point of cats...
[09:27] <AndyEsser> most useless creature ever
[09:27] <AndyEsser> (Domesticated Cats I mean... not Lions/Big Cats)
[09:27] <x-f> cats are the most human-like animals
[09:27] <gonzo_> I disagree. If you have any bricks that need drowning, kittens are the ideal ballast to weigh the sack down
[09:28] <x-f> by behaviour, i mean
[09:28] <fsphil> ooch
[09:28] <x-f> that was dark, gonzo_
[09:29] <gonzo_> hehe. Just an image that ammuses me
[09:29] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: :) weather here is shit for doing radio stuff, icy for climding and wet when trying to tape cables..
[09:29] <lz1dev> there's not need for that with the upcoming weather front
[09:29] <gonzo_> the domestic moggy is probably only a few m,eals away from being wild enough to be self sufficient.
[09:29] <gonzo_> but they have mug humans well trained to look after them, so why bother, apart from instinct/sport
[09:30] <eroomde> you see the shipwreck in the 2nd photo here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-35395107
[09:31] <eroomde> that's exactly where our house in hunstanton is (well, obviously not on the beach itself but just on the cliffs above the beach)
[09:31] <gonzo_> wet and insulating tape are a bad mix. But silicon grease is a real killer. There is no way you will get tape to work wioth even the slightest bit of grease in the area
[09:31] <eroomde> https://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/8334650402/in/dateposted-public/
[09:31] <eroomde> same wreck ^
[09:32] <gonzo_> taken away to cremate???? A bloody big oven.
[09:32] <eroomde> maybe take it to local japanese restaurants
[09:33] <gonzo_> though suerly they just need to bore a hole in and put in a bloody big wick. it would light the beach for months
[09:33] <gonzo_> and why would people want to take bits away?
[09:33] <gonzo_> apart from the japs
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[09:40] <UpuWork> 100 feet
[09:40] <UpuWork> where is SI bot when you need it
[09:40] <Vaizki> people are a danger to themselves so we must protect them to allow them to breed and pass on these traits to a large number of offspring
[09:41] Nick change: AX5FSCK -> VK5FSCK
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[09:47] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: that was cold... I love it!
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[09:51] <fsphil> dogs > cats
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[09:53] <AndyEsser> fsphil: agreed
[09:53] <eroomde> by mass
[09:54] <AndyEsser> and cuteness
[09:54] <AndyEsser> and usability
[09:54] <AndyEsser> and everything
[09:55] <AndyEsser> s/usability/usefulness
[09:56] <eroomde> the l2-norm of the pet state vector
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[10:00] <gonzo_> dogs have masters, cats have staff
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> They should blow up the whale corpse.
[10:00] <fsphil> dogs have best friends
[10:01] <gonzo_> my mother has a couple of cats, and I always joke (partly) with her, that the meow translates directly to 'want'
[10:01] <gonzo_> there was a beached whale in the US that they tried to dlow up, years ago
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> I know.
[10:02] <Vaizki> yes the video is a classic
[10:02] <gonzo_> the blast reflected through the carcase and instead of sending it splashing into the sea, it covered the onlookers and some big bits stoved in some cars
[10:02] <gonzo_> yep it was classic
[10:05] <mattbrejza> is there a video of the one that exploded in taiwan?
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[10:09] <LazyLeopard> If they really want to know how to get rid of a whale efficiently, they should visit a whaling museum and see how whalers managed it...
[10:12] <lz1dev> explosives?
[10:12] <eroomde> the video is on youtube
[10:13] <eroomde> including the flattened cadalac
[10:13] <number10> Hawking Reith lecture # 1 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03gl17j
[10:13] <eroomde> they should just provide the transcript of that really
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> LazyLeopard: yeah - byt you can't convene that sort of effort in a week
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[10:25] <LazyLeopard> Throuble is the sorts of efforts they are convening are mostly messy and ineffective...
[10:25] <LazyLeopard> Chainsaws, explosives, whatever...
[10:26] <SpeedEvil> Chainsaws are indeed messy.
[10:27] <SpeedEvil> But - as the meat is almost certainly spoiled by now - there is limited stuff that can be done with it
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[10:33] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, cut it up and render it down, or tow it out into deep ocean and let it sink...
[10:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Towing it out sounds good, but how to get something underneath it to start with is biggest problem!
[10:37] <LazyLeopard> Indeed. You'd need an ocean-going tug, too. Not cheap.
[10:38] <LazyLeopard> ...and just towing it out into the North Sea would not be sufficient...
[10:39] <gonzo_> roll it onto something with skids and floats. then tow that out as far as poss at low tide, then let the tide come in
[10:42] <gonzo_> though it's oftenm more ammusing to watch the antyics of the councils attempts
[10:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Rolling 30-40 tons of decomposing blubber will be interesting!
[10:42] <gonzo_> lots of long stakes, strops on the far sade and a coup;e pf JCBs
[10:43] <gonzo_> just watching them doing simple things like groundworks is an experience. So this... you could sell tickets
[10:44] <SpeedEvil> Hence why I suggested explosives.
[10:44] <SpeedEvil> I'd pay to see that.
[10:44] <gonzo_> (play the belly hill theme in the background)
[10:44] <gonzo_> if the beech is big enough, Yep, and let the seagulls/crabs finish the job
[10:45] <gonzo_> benny
[10:45] <gonzo_> by the time the paperwork/H&S etc of using explosives had been done, the thing would have rotted away anyway
[10:46] <AndyEsser> NOTAM for flying bits of Whale at 1000ft
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[10:46] Action: SpeedEvil submits a request to the CAA for a HAB to lift it.
[10:48] <LazyLeopard> Better use hydrogen for that. You'll need a lot of gas. ;)
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[10:49] <gonzo_> just pump the carcase full of H2
[10:50] <gonzo_> (and O2) and at 10,000ft, ignite it
[10:50] <fsphil> high altitude beluga
[10:51] <chris_99> heh, and then it rains whale
[10:51] <AndyEsser> It's raining Whale!
[10:51] <AndyEsser> Whallehujah
[10:51] <fsphil> this is why nobody here is in charge of the operation
[10:51] <chris_99> haha
[10:51] <gonzo_> and that is how biblical stories start
[10:51] <mattbrejza> didnt one beach on a firing range?
[10:51] <mattbrejza> surely theyll blow that one up
[10:51] <mattbrejza> target practice
[10:55] <chris_99> maybe they could turn it into soap, with copious amounts of lye
[10:55] <BrainDamage> you only need to wrap it in plastic foil, eventually decomposition will produce plenty of methane and other combustible gasses by itself
[10:56] <BrainDamage> mix with air, ignite, and repeat to blow up more chunks
[10:56] <SpeedEvil> chris_99: With Eau-de-rotted-whale
[10:56] <chris_99> heh SpeedEvil
[10:57] <mattbrejza> isnt that why they blow up by themselves?
[10:57] <SpeedEvil> yes
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[10:58] <R34lB0rg> how big would the plastic bag have to be and how long would it take to produce enough methane to lift itself?
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[11:08] <eroomde> this big |---------------------------------|
[11:09] <eroomde> 7 seconds
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[11:10] <fsphil> never did find out how long a piece of string is
[11:11] <fsphil> hab+whales is a pretty odd combinations of topics
[11:12] <fsphil> -s
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[11:13] <daveake> somewhere on a ham channel they're saying "and those habbers think we're weird for talking about our piles"
[11:16] <eroomde> what do you call a queue for the toilets at a ham convention
[11:16] <eroomde> a pile-up
[11:17] <UpuWork> lol
[11:20] <AndyEsser> Someone is going to have to explain the Ham <-> Pile link to me
[11:20] <fsphil> lol
[11:20] <fsphil> quite often the topic on amateur radio bands is, ailments
[11:21] <AndyEsser> ah
[11:22] <fsphil> esp on certain bands, which is weird
[11:22] <eroomde> UHF fm
[11:22] <eroomde> it's the nearest thing to spending all day talking to other old men in a pub
[11:22] <fsphil> quite a lot on 160m
[11:22] <eroomde> but without having to put something on in addition to your pants
[11:24] <adamgreig> or indeed thos
[11:24] <adamgreig> e
[11:24] <R34lB0rg> (don't think about it, but not even pants)
[11:25] <gonzo_> my daughter tends to refer to 80mtrs when she wants to have a dig at old coffin dodgers
[11:25] <gonzo_> (usually when insulting me)
[11:25] <AndyEsser> how old is she?
[11:26] <fsphil> HAMs don't die, they just retune to DC
[11:27] <gonzo_> nope, they just smell that way
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[11:27] <fsphil> hah
[11:27] <fsphil> they're not all bad
[11:28] <gonzo_> she's 15. Though did the foundation exam at 8/9? And has refused to use a radio since.
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[11:30] <AndyEsser> ha
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[11:33] <fsphil> a fully active amateur radio operator according to RSGB I'm sure
[11:37] <Darkside> gonzo_: hah
[11:38] <Darkside> gonzo_: we use 80m in a similar disparaging way around here
[11:38] <Darkside> whenever someone complains about their health mainly
[11:39] <gonzo_> I weaken and turn HF on about once a year here. And within minutes I'm shouting at the radio out of frustration at the conversations
[11:39] <Darkside> i use HF in 2 situations
[11:39] <Darkside> A) Contests
[11:40] <Darkside> B) 160m mobile car-to-car comms during balloon hunts
[11:40] <Darkside> because 160m mobile is awesome
[11:40] <gonzo_> but in most cases, the people on the radio re just those wanting to chat. The ones doing interesting tech stuff are busy in the woirkshop
[11:40] <Darkside> it worked incredibly well today
[11:40] <craag> The most interesting hams are rarely on the air in my experience
[11:41] <craag> They just use the license as an enabler to work on interesting stuff as gonzo_ says
[11:41] <gonzo_> I did rig up a car fit a while ago, as I was due to be stuck in it for a whole day, killing time. But I lost patience with AR and spent most time listening to 11mtrs ssb
[11:42] <gonzo_> craag, that has always been pretty much my situartion. AR is all about the kit. Many projects have never been on air, as you can usually test all you need on the bench
[11:43] <Darkside> mm a lot of my AR stuff recently has been movile
[11:43] <Darkside> mainly fitting out hte car for balloon hunts
[11:43] <craag> I've got a dual-band rig in the car, will ocasionally chat to people on repeaters if I'm bored mobile.
[11:43] <gonzo_> pretty bmuch the only TXing I've doen in the last 10yrs, has been HAB
[11:43] <craag> But being on the air for the sake of it is something I've never seen the point in
[11:44] <fsphil> I've been playing with ATV, that's quite fun
[11:44] <daveake> yeah bit like spending all day with the IRC window open ...
[11:44] <daveake> ... oh
[11:44] <craag> And there have been repeater conversations that I've terminated early due to content boredom exceeding that of watching the countryside :/
[11:45] <daveake> It's educational here though :-)
[11:45] <daveake> albeit sometimes the topics are, er, unusual :p
[11:45] <daveake> hah
[11:45] <craag> ATV is a good community
[11:46] <craag> far more tech-focused, but still with contests and such
[11:46] <gonzo_> the new DATV stuff seems interesting. Some of the club members gearing up for it. 70cms dvb into the locat repeater then 23cm out
[11:46] <Darkside> sure its not the reverse?
[11:46] <craag> They're now building IQ modulators to do HEVC over DVB-S on 2m
[11:46] <Darkside> usually they ar eDVB-S uplink then DVB-T downlink
[11:46] <gonzo_> I used to play microwaves too. That was similar. Contests are just an excuse to try the kit
[11:46] <Darkside> with uplink on 23
[11:47] <Darkside> or do you guys not have the bandwidth on 70 for DVB-T
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[11:48] <gonzo_> we only have 8meg at 70cm
[11:48] <Darkside> ah
[11:48] <Darkside> we have 20
[11:49] <gonzo_> and it's getting busy these days. And ATV has always stamped over other allocations, but they have been little used till now
[11:49] <Darkside> its nice, as you can drop a DVB-T channel on 444MHzish
[11:49] <Darkside> and a lot of set top boxes can receive it
[11:49] <gonzo_> so lower bandwidth DVBS is the prefered option
[11:49] <Darkside> mm
[11:49] <craag> dvb-t has been done, but dvb-s is the norm
[11:49] <Darkside> i've heard about the really narrow stuff on 2m
[11:49] <Darkside> would be interesting to fly, if the transmitter can be made small/efficient enough
[11:49] <craag> Also avoiding OFDM
[11:49] <fsphil> I'm still on analogue modes :)
[11:50] <Darkside> yes, less linearity issues
[11:50] <craag> mm
[11:50] <Darkside> the DVB-T repeater around here is using a 500W amp, derated to like 50W
[11:50] <Darkside> just to keep the linearity
[11:50] <Darkside> class AB tho..
[11:51] <gonzo_> the stuff on 2mtrs is 0.5Mbit, which needs thought to RX. As I don't know of any set top boxes that will go below 1Mbit
[11:51] <Darkside> pretty sure the amp was meant to be for SSB, prolly EME stuff
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[11:51] <gonzo_> but for 70cm, that is easy
[11:51] <Darkside> gonzo_: isnt this what SDR is for?
[11:51] <Darkside> i kind of get wierded out at all the people using all these MPEG2 chips and modulators and things
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[11:51] <gonzo_> think sdr is starting to be used
[11:51] <Darkside> when even a hackRF can probably produce the RF with reasonable quality
[11:51] <craag> I've just built a usb minitioune receiver, with a wide range tuner that'll do 2395MHz
[11:51] <Darkside> just needs to be filtered and amplified
[11:52] <fsphil> the hackrf adds a fair bit of noise to analogue video. shouldn't be an issue for digital at all
[11:52] <fsphil> needs more bits for analogue
[11:52] <Darkside> theres an analog video transmit script?
[11:52] <mfa298> only problem with SDR is half the hams won't be able to use it with their old XP machines.
[11:52] <Darkside> hah
[11:52] <craag> Current 'state-of-the-art' in the group is pi cam -> hevc encoder -> muxer -> gpio -> iq modulator
[11:52] <fsphil> I've got a program that transmits PAL video
[11:52] <Darkside> VSB?
[11:52] <fsphil> yeah
[11:53] <Darkside> can you remove the VSB entirely? :P
[11:53] <Darkside> or wont that demodulate
[11:53] <fsphil> I haven't tried that actually
[11:53] <gonzo_> also, lots of atv is done from hilltops. And for that you ideally need a self contained box, rather than PC base soln
[11:53] <AndyEsser> if only there was a self-contained PC
[11:53] <AndyEsser> say that... sat on your lap
[11:53] <AndyEsser> :)
[11:54] <fsphil> burn him!
[11:54] <fsphil> (which is what a laptop doing SDR would do to you)
[11:54] <craag> if it's an old macbook, it will
[11:54] <craag> heh
[11:55] <gonzo_> craag, the pi soln is interesting. I'd have a play at that. Though it will be a while befopre my current crop of projects are out of the way
[11:55] <craag> Yeah digilite is the name
[11:55] <fsphil> my laptop can't really feed the hackrf at 20mbit/s
[11:55] <craag> err sorry digithin
[11:56] <fsphil> though dvb wouldn't need that much
[11:56] <fsphil> 20mhz even, which is 40mbit/s for 8-bit samples
[11:56] <fsphil> bytes/s
[11:57] Action: fsphil gives up
[11:57] <craag> annoyingly the development is all fragmented in various BATC/Vivadatv forum threads
[11:57] <craag> no central source or index
[11:57] <fsphil> batc got a wiki?
[11:57] <craag> so basically requires spending 30 mins a day reading forums to keep up
[11:57] <craag> yeah - I made them one - they don't like it
[11:58] <fsphil> hah, typical
[12:00] <fsphil> DVB-T definitly doesn't seem CPU friendly
[12:01] <craag> DVB-S QPSK 2MSym/s 1/2 FEC seems to be the most common mode
[12:11] <fsphil> might give that a go next. need to tidy up and release the analogue stuff first
[12:12] <fsphil> annoyingly none of my TVs do NTSC. all do SECAM though, naturally
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[13:49] <AndyEsser> Those of you who have kids...
[13:49] <AndyEsser> how on earth do you afford them?!
[13:49] <AndyEsser> was in Toys R Us at lunch time
[13:49] <AndyEsser> pram/buggy prices are ridiculous!
[13:53] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: get someone else to buy the toys? :)
[13:53] Action: AndyEsser is the poor mug buying someone else's child the toys...
[13:53] <Laurenceb_> if anyone wants it
[13:53] <Laurenceb_> http://www.bidspotter.co.uk/en-gb/auction-catalogues/bpi-associates/catalogue-id-bp10865/lot-ad541a7e-d46a-49ee-b163-a58400d612d8
[13:53] <AndyEsser> ouch - dat current bid
[13:54] <Laurenceb_> all zaNO kit going up for sale
[13:54] <Miek> oh lol
[13:54] <adamgreig> oh lol of course it's from zano
[13:55] <mattbrejza> there are 16000 lipos in a listing somewhere too
[13:55] <Miek> why did they have a 2.5GHz scope?
[13:55] <adamgreig> has anyone here daisy chained jtag to a handful o micros before?
[13:55] <Laurenceb_> lol http://www.bidspotter.co.uk/en-gb/auction-catalogues/bpi-associates/catalogue-id-bp10865/lot-f4db02c9-9221-451c-91b3-a58600c143c2
[13:55] <Laurenceb_> adamgreig: only with "pro" tools
[13:56] <adamgreig> i am going to have a stack of ~6 stm32s
[13:56] <adamgreig> in a literal stack
[13:56] <adamgreig> interconnect pins are at a premium
[13:56] <adamgreig> so while i would most like to just have swd to each one
[13:56] <Laurenceb_> hmm I've actually only done it with fpgas and the manufacturers tools, sorry
[13:56] <adamgreig> it seems maybe a single jtag chain is the way to go
[13:56] <mattbrejza> http://www.bidspotter.co.uk/en-gb/auction-catalogues/bpi-associates/catalogue-id-bp10865/lot-9ab39dc7-e10a-4324-bf6b-a58600c143c2 lol
[13:57] <Laurenceb_> but it should work in principle using jtag
[13:57] <adamgreig> mm
[13:57] <Laurenceb_> http://www.bidspotter.co.uk/en-gb/auction-catalogues/bpi-associates/catalogue-id-bp10865/lot-2a2cb8b5-9d65-46a4-89ae-a58400d612d8
[13:57] <adamgreig> just wonder how much pain it will be. annoying that you have to pick a clock speed and all devices in the chain must be powered up and stuff
[13:57] <mattbrejza> ah Laurenceb_ , so thats how they recorded the promo video
[13:57] <Laurenceb_> yup
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[13:58] <mattbrejza> so there are no actual zanos for sale?
[13:59] <Laurenceb_> doesnt look like it
[14:01] <AndyEsser> That's the Drone we have at work
[14:01] <AndyEsser> or at least, very similar
[14:01] <AndyEsser> ours is controlled by iPad/phone
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[14:51] <fab4space> hello all
[14:51] <fab4space> daveake, UpuWork , https://www.u-blox.com/en/press-release/u-blox-m8-multi-gnss-receivers-achieve-higher-level-performance-embedded-security
[14:51] <fab4space> ublox M8 FW 3.01 now also supports Galile
[14:51] <fab4space> ublox M8 FW 3.01 now also supports Galileo
[14:51] <fab4space> but Galileo is not ready I guess :)
[14:51] <fab4space> "Another welcome feature of FW 3.01 is the 10% power reduction compared to earlier firmware versions of ublox M8."
[14:51] <eroomde> those catholics are holding him up
[14:53] <AndyEsser> hehe
[14:55] <UpuWork> yeah
[14:55] <UpuWork> saw that fab4space
[14:55] <UpuWork> but they won't hit distribution for a few months
[14:55] <UpuWork> Products with FW 3.01 in ROM will become available in Q2 2016.
[14:55] <UpuWork> Q2 in Ubloxese means July 2017
[14:56] <eroomde> Ublocois i think
[14:56] <UpuWork> possibly
[14:56] <fab4space> "Firmware to upgrade existing flashROM based ublox M8 products can be downloaded from the ublox website. "
[14:57] <UpuWork> "flashROM based ublox M8"
[14:57] <fab4space> some modules can have upgraded firmware I guess
[14:57] <UpuWork> not MAX modules sadly
[14:57] <fab4space> ok :)
[15:07] <craag> triple constellation - nice
[15:08] <AndyEsser> I presume GPS, GLONASS and Galileo basically all work on the same principle?
[15:08] <mattbrejza> yea
[15:08] <eroomde> just different freqs and coding schemes
[15:10] <craag> You get more satellites in view using more of them, so more datapoints for your fix.
[15:10] <mattbrejza> oh glonass is fdma
[15:10] <adamgreig> they're diff freqs though
[15:10] <AndyEsser> so you can basically use them in conjunction?
[15:10] <craag> I assume frequency diversity also helps a smaller amount?
[15:10] <adamgreig> so eg a max 8 can do 2 at once
[15:10] <mattbrejza> (currently)
[15:10] <AndyEsser> 1 GPS, 2 GLONASS, a couple Galileo ones
[15:10] <adamgreig> has 2 rf receivers
[15:10] <AndyEsser> don't need 3-4 fixes from the same system?
[15:10] <craag> "It can track up to three constellations concurrently"
[15:11] <adamgreig> huh
[15:11] <adamgreig> so long as two are on the same frequency
[15:11] <adamgreig> eg glonass and gps?
[15:11] <craag> ah
[15:11] <craag> but gps+glonass+galileo is probably what we want right?
[15:12] <mattbrejza> oh weird, glonass has each satellite on a different frequency (FDMA), but each satellite still uses DSSS for positioning
[15:13] <mattbrejza> the chip rate is half of gps too
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[15:16] <mattbrejza> wikipedia is useless for galileo, but its supposed to be higher accuracy which is nice
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[15:18] <craag> ~1m where GPS is ~2m ?
[15:18] <craag> (public services)
[15:19] <adamgreig> GPS is ~3m nominally i thought
[15:19] <gonzo_> how many sats are there up now?
[15:20] <craag> adamgreig: Yes you may be right - I think 2m was with sbas, etc.
[15:20] <mattbrejza> galileo will be like the military precision gps ones
[15:20] <mattbrejza> or at least thats the impression wikipedia gives
[15:21] <gonzo_> I seem to recall that worst case (minimal consrtelation, worst angles and all prop issues, GPS is +-10mtrs)
[15:21] <craag> mattbrejza: Services heading?
[15:21] <craag> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_(satellite_navigation)#Services
[15:21] <adamgreig> worst case is a lot worse than 10m
[15:23] <gonzo_> adamgreig, I would hav eto dig back. But had to research it ages ago to give sales some credible accuracies of our kit
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[15:24] <gonzo_> with good old SA, it was more like +-100mtrs
[15:25] <craag> well you can put filters on the receivers (eg ublox) so it will report no fix unless the fix is better than a configured threshold
[15:26] <craag> so you could set that to +-10m
[15:26] <craag> then claim that number as worst-case given a lock
[15:26] <habby> Afternoon all! I'm thinking of adding a piezo buzzer to our payload. Any issues with power consumption for this idea? Also, which GPIO pins should I use/avoid (are any used exclusively by SenseBoard or PITS board?)
[15:27] <mattbrejza> well that depends on the buzzer...
[15:27] <mattbrejza> helpfully manufacturers tell you these things
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[15:28] <habby> SFM-27 DC 3-24V 12mA Industrial Continuous Sound Electronic Buzzer
[15:28] <gonzo_> we tried some early sony gps rx modules. They had some silly bugs that randomly switched between geoids. But worse was the internal clock. Drifted so bad that when you were down to 3 sats, your posn would walk off 100's of mtrs
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[15:30] <mattbrejza> 12mA really isnt that much
[15:30] <mattbrejza> you can always have it beep too
[15:30] <mattbrejza> and only turn it on when landed
[15:30] <habby> I'm thining of having it beep every 10 secs
[15:30] <mattbrejza> the pi/gps/radio use far more anyway
[15:30] <habby> *thinking
[15:31] <daveake> continous is fine just switch it on after landing
[15:31] <mattbrejza> test its loud enough to be useful though
[15:31] <mattbrejza> i think i certain beep pattern might be useful to help to identify the sound as yours
[15:31] <habby> Have got it beeping. Just thinking of night time/ tree etc
[15:31] <gonzo_> I can't imagine that a sounder will carry further than a tx
[15:32] <daveake> no it's just handy when it's hiding in a garden or somewhere similar
[15:32] <mattbrejza> perhaps a camera flash would be useful at night
[15:32] <habby> Also thinking about it being able to let general public know it's around
[15:32] <mattbrejza> not sure thats desired
[15:32] <daveake> I've used one once, just connected to a PP3. It was so loud I put tape on it while we were working.
[15:32] <Vaizki> easier to hear direction if it beeps twice in a row 1 sec apart, then pauses
[15:32] <habby> Before hits them on the head....
[15:32] <daveake> ofc the tape didn't get removed :/
[15:32] <SA6BSS-Mike> just put a flashing led or two on it as well,
[15:33] <gonzo_> hehe, I was just typing bomb squad!
[15:33] <daveake> it was still loud enough when we got to it
[15:33] <SA6BSS-Mike> and audio, its the only way chasing it after dark
[15:33] <daveake> hi-viz tape is really good for night landings/chases
[15:33] <Vaizki> maybe it could sing the lumberjack song
[15:33] <daveake> just take a big torch
[15:33] <habby> Beep pattern is a good idea. thanks mattbrejza
[15:34] <habby> Good intel, Vaizki
[15:34] <daveake> and if you see a dog barking at a tree, you know where your payload is
[15:34] <habby> Vaizki - do you know why
[15:34] <habby> lol @daveake
[15:35] <habby> daveake - what's a PP3, please
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[15:35] <AndyEsser> I plan on making mine beep like the gifts from Hunger Games movies :)
[15:35] <AndyEsser> habby: 9v battery
[15:35] <gonzo_> can you get reflective tape?
[15:35] <AndyEsser> the cuboid shaped ones
[15:36] <gonzo_> that would really make them stand out in torch light
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-X-10-Reflective-Safety-Warning-Conspicuity-Tape-Film-Roll-Sticker-Multicolor-/272097621022?var=&hash=item3f5a48341e:m:mdn0aZxZzLcSFvtB7vwzMuQ
[15:37] <daveake> yeah I've used it./ Had to land in fields and easily spotted from 200m with a decent torch
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-Silver-White-Reflective-Safety-Warning-Conspicuity-Tape-Film-Sticker-Strip-/201457584164?hash=item2ee7cec824:g:j14AAOSwo0JWMdst
[15:37] <daveake> s/to/two/
[15:37] <gonzo_> good old ebay.
[15:42] <number10> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-HIGH-INTENSITY-REFLECTIVE-TAPE-VINYL-25mm-50mm-100mm-150mm-widths-/291131172483?var=590281482984&hash=item43c8c52683:m:mXSlQjd8icHV23YdIkzGf2w
[15:42] <number10> I wonder what that looks like in the dark
[15:43] <daveake> dark
[15:43] <daveake> better with some light of some sort :)
[15:43] <number10> lol ... cheers daveake :)
[15:46] <habby> daveake: any issues with GPIO conflict, or can I just assign it any one?
[15:46] <daveake> not any, no
[15:46] <habby> Thanks all! :)
[15:47] <habby> Oh hang on. You mean not any issues, or I shouldn't assign it just any one?
[15:48] <daveake> Well of course you can't use "any" pin as some are already used
[15:48] <daveake> UpuWork Do you have alink handy to the PITS GPIO pin usage?
[15:49] <daveake> and then habby you'll need to check those used by the sense hat
[15:49] <mattbrejza> https://github.com/PiInTheSky/pits-hardware/blob/master/Pits-Stacking-System-GPIO-Allocations.pdf ?
[15:49] <daveake> Thanks U...Matt :)
[15:50] <UpuWork> yes daveake
[15:50] <UpuWork> 15:49] <mattbrejza> https://github.com/PiInTheSky/pits-hardware/blob/master/Pits-Stacking-System-GPIO-Allocations.pdf
[15:50] <UpuWork> there you go
[15:50] <daveake> hah
[15:50] <mattbrejza> is there an echo in here? :P
[15:50] <UpuWork> Easy mode :)
[15:51] <eroomde> fresh out of the toaster oven https://www.dropbox.com/s/vks8te2ks0iinjf/2016-01-26%2015.49.49.jpg?dl=0&preview=2016-01-26+15.49.49.jpg
[15:51] <eroomde> and old design but a new instance of
[15:51] <UpuWork> that IC looks upside down
[15:51] <eroomde> alas no sir
[15:51] <eroomde> it's fo heatsinks
[15:51] <UpuWork> yup
[15:52] <mattbrejza> old design will explain the f103
[15:52] <eroomde> can't heat 'em
[15:53] <eroomde> )not strictly true)
[15:53] <eroomde> beat*
[15:53] <mattbrejza> if you were doing the board now from scratch would you still use the f1 though?
[15:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-A2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-A2
[15:54] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI868 after 0316 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI868
[15:55] <eroomde> mattbrejza: dunno
[15:55] <eroomde> it's still a fine thing
[15:56] <mattbrejza> indeed
[15:59] <adamgreig> pretty much everything I might want an f1 for the f0s seem better, and on the other side I want f4s
[15:59] <adamgreig> but the f1s are still fairly nice even if like 8 years old :P
[15:59] <adamgreig> looks neat eroomde
[15:59] <adamgreig> are you sad that SMD electrolytic caps don't have better mounting?
[16:00] <adamgreig> I feel like there must be a better way
[16:00] <eroomde> yes
[16:01] <eroomde> totaly
[16:01] <eroomde> and don't want to do all the silicon gunge
[16:01] <adamgreig> leaves me basically wanting to do PTH for electroylics
[16:01] <eroomde> re f1/f0, note the f1 are cortex m3 and the f0 are m0
[16:01] <adamgreig> true
[16:01] <eroomde> there's a fairly substantial difference for some applications between the two
[16:02] <adamgreig> but the f0 peripherals are all way nicer
[16:02] <adamgreig> and the f4 is an m4f which is nicer again
[16:02] <eroomde> well it's basically just m3 with some more dsp instractions
[16:02] <eroomde> the m0 - m3 gap is very much larger than the m3 - m4 gap
[16:04] <eroomde> this is instructive
[16:04] <eroomde> http://i.ytimg.com/vi/G2qG3teMj90/maxresdefault.jpg
[16:04] <mattbrejza> the f2s are M3s? and the f3 the M4s?
[16:04] <mattbrejza> one has nice analogue stuff
[16:04] <mattbrejza> never used them though
[16:04] <eroomde> the m4 - m3 set is mostly vector instructions
[16:05] <eroomde> sorry for mixing 'gap' and 'set' with the same noration
[16:05] <eroomde> notation
[16:05] <eroomde> need whiteboards for irc
[16:05] <adamgreig> handy diagram
[16:05] <eroomde> yes
[16:05] <adamgreig> M0 really is RISC
[16:05] <eroomde> yeah!
[16:05] <eroomde> they really are very very basical compared to, for example, the f103s
[16:05] <eroomde> basical
[16:05] <eroomde> blimey
[16:06] <AndyEsser> struggling a bit
[16:06] <mattbrejza> the gate count of the M0 is supposed to be pretty tiny
[16:06] <eroomde> fwiw everything i've designed recently has been m4{f} or m0
[16:06] <adamgreig> right, same
[16:07] <adamgreig> m4 for anything doing actual numerical work and m0 for anything just doing general microcontroller goodness
[16:07] <eroomde> either you want room to play or you're just replacing a small 8-bit micro
[16:07] <eroomde> no mass production where you have to differentiate much between chips in the middle
[16:07] Action: AndyEsser straps an Intel Xeon to his tracker
[16:08] <eroomde> no divison on the m0 even
[16:08] <eroomde> good luck cooling it AndyEsser
[16:08] <mattbrejza> M0 is also von Neumann
[16:08] <AndyEsser> it's cool enough higher up in the atmosphere ;)
[16:09] <eroomde> what
[16:09] <eroomde> no
[16:09] <eroomde> that's not how it works
[16:09] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: huh, as opposed to the M3?
[16:09] <eroomde> it's much harder to cool it at altitude
[16:09] <eroomde> much much harder
[16:09] <AndyEsser> eroomde: it was a joke
[16:09] <eroomde> good
[16:09] <zyp> adamgreig, yes, the M3 is harvard
[16:09] <mattbrejza> yea M3 is havvard
[16:09] <mattbrejza> -v
[16:09] <adamgreig> isn't M3 modified harvard?
[16:09] <eroomde> i read it with a boston accent now
[16:10] <zyp> M3 got three memory buses, but all accesses the same memory space
[16:10] <mattbrejza> well the point is that the M0 has a bottleneck accessing ram
[16:10] <zyp> so the distinction is not important
[16:10] <adamgreig> harvard is kinda characterised by separate address spaces though?
[16:10] <R6mco> freq of PI868 ?
[16:11] <adamgreig> so they all feel like von neumann to operate, just the m3 happens to have multiple internal buses to differnt things
[16:12] <zyp> adamgreig, harvard indicates separate buses for data and instruction fetches
[16:12] <zyp> they just happen to be hooked up to the same address space
[16:14] <daveake> R6mco PI868 is testing
[16:14] <daveake> As the SSDV images suggest
[16:14] <R6mco> what frequency is it on, and where do I find such information ?
[16:15] <eroomde> it's not flying R6mco
[16:15] <eroomde> there is no information
[16:15] <mattbrejza> http://ssdv.habhub.org/ R6mco
[16:15] <eroomde> forget about it
[16:15] <eroomde> it's dave testing something in his office
[16:15] <eroomde> see all the pictures of his office
[16:15] <mattbrejza> huh, image 1, 0 missing, but there is a red line across the middle
[16:16] <R6mco> aha.. its not flying, it's on the bench ;-)
[16:16] <daveake> yeah that's me restarting the tracker so there are 2 image 1's
[16:16] <mattbrejza> oh
[16:16] <eroomde> many a hab payload that lives on a bench
[16:16] <eroomde> waiting for it's 3 hours of glory
[16:16] <daveake> there's some logic that decides if an image is new or not
[16:17] <daveake> and if the payload id and image number are the same, that relies on time since previous packet
[16:17] <daveake> I have the same logic in my gateway as the ssdv server uses, I think
[16:18] <AndyEsser> That desk is far too tidy
[16:18] <daveake> that's a sdhelf; desk is out of sight :)
[16:19] <AndyEsser> shelf is far too tidy ;)
[16:19] <AndyEsser> sorry. sdhelf
[16:19] <AndyEsser> :)
[16:19] <daveake> it will be when I put in a cable guide
[16:20] <mattbrejza> is far too tidy as all the stuff is covering his desk
[16:20] <daveake> :)
[16:21] <habby> Thanks daveake and UpuWork... sorry, got called into a meeting. FYI: Sense Hat chematics are here https://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Sense-HAT-V1_0.pdf
[16:21] <daveake> Yes we know :-). I already checked for conflicts with that
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[16:31] <habby> so, looking like GPIO 29, 32, 36, 40 are free
[16:31] <habby> (Is using sense Hat and PITS)
[16:31] <habby> *If
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[16:47] <tweetBot> @philcrump2: CRAAG4 Recovered! #ukhas https://t.co/0chka3row5
[16:47] <adamgreig> craag: good work! was the bug... OK
[16:47] <craag> apparently still alive
[16:48] <eroomde> and so humanities hope was kept alive by the little bug that could
[16:48] <mattbrejza> what
[16:48] <eroomde> [pan out to big heavily bound book being slowly closed by the narrator. cut to credits]
[16:48] <mattbrejza> also what is that black sheet thing?
[16:49] <craag> mattbrejza: That's the chute...
[16:49] <mattbrejza> uh huh
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[16:50] <craag> yay can get my faulty tracker back :P
[16:50] <craag> Just trying to find out if my DFing was correct..
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[17:03] <eroomde> did they go back out to find it then?
[17:03] <eroomde> them and not you, i mean
[17:04] <craag> yes they did
[17:04] <craag> 3x gopro + phone + satellite tracker made for some motivation
[17:04] <eroomde> lol
[17:04] <eroomde> i must find my headtorch, it occurs to me
[17:04] <eroomde> it's in one of my 3 rucksacks
[17:05] <eroomde> but i couldn't tell you which
[17:05] <craag> omg my headtorch
[17:05] <craag> got a nice petzl for christmas
[17:05] <craag> soooo happy I had it on sunday
[17:05] <eroomde> it's v important
[17:05] <craag> was absolutely ideal for walking
[17:06] <eroomde> good boots, waterproofs and a headtorch
[17:06] <craag> mm
[17:06] <eroomde> and a thermos of coffee
[17:06] <eroomde> and a pb sanwich
[17:06] <craag> didn't have that - had water+large toblerone though!
[17:07] <eroomde> the coffee thermos really is the best
[17:07] <eroomde> i promise
[17:07] <craag> yeah I will
[17:07] <craag> next time I plan a hab recovery in the welsh countryside
[17:07] <craag> :P
[17:07] <eroomde> and a pb sandwich or bit of flapjack in the breast pocket of your waterproof is life insurance of the first order
[17:08] <adamgreig> flapjack yess
[17:09] <adamgreig> i don't like peanut butter so the pb sandwich is out
[17:09] <jonsowman> what
[17:09] <adamgreig> cadbury chocolate brunch bar <3
[17:09] <eroomde> it's the bomb
[17:09] <craag> I do have flapjack bars in a bag actually, along with my..
[17:09] <jonsowman> pb is the best
[17:09] Action: craag whispers
[17:09] <eroomde> it's so calorific
[17:09] <craag> raynet gear
[17:09] <eroomde> in the right sort of way for endurance
[17:09] <adamgreig> i should probably try it again at some point on account of recently coming around to peanuts a bit
[17:09] <eroomde> chocolate just blasts you with sugar and cahses you
[17:09] <eroomde> apreciate the brunch bar has slow-release stuff too
[17:10] <adamgreig> the brunch bar is mostly not chocolate by mass so it's not as bad as eating a chocolate bar
[17:10] <adamgreig> having said that
[17:10] <adamgreig> block of dairy milk or something while trekking
[17:10] <adamgreig> don't care if you then crash later. that's what more chocolate is for :P
[17:11] <craag> hehe +1
[17:12] <eroomde> ttfn
[17:15] <mfa298> gas stove + kettle + coffee probably beat thermos for when you're back at the car (unless you're out in <0C )
[17:15] <mfa298> plus you can easily extend that to pan + bacon
[17:17] <craag> hah yes - I had stove+tea at blast
[17:17] <craag> Thought about it - but didn't have the space with all the cardboard in the end
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[17:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CHANGEME - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CHANGEME
[17:20] <jonsowman> lol
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[18:02] <ASDFoster> hello
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[18:15] <eroomde> greetings ASDFoster
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[19:10] <adamgreig> is there any reason to use an external flash chip when i could use an stm32's onboard flash?
[19:10] <adamgreig> I can't think of much really but I've not spent any time trying to use the onboard flash for program data instead of just code stuff
[19:12] <Vaizki> Can you write protect the segment your program data is in?
[19:12] <adamgreig> hmm
[19:12] <adamgreig> "probably"
[19:12] <adamgreig> don't want out of control code overwriting the firmware!
[19:12] <Vaizki> ok we use program data to mean different things
[19:12] <Vaizki> Your program
[19:13] <adamgreig> I think the stm32 can probably write protect a segment of flash that has the firmware
[19:14] <Vaizki> it would make sense that it has at least possibility to protect one half
[19:14] <Vaizki> the half where execution starts from at boot :)
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[19:39] <fsphil> isn't the flash read-only by default anyway?
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[19:41] <JimAM> so I had a thought
[19:41] <JimAM> most of these helium balloons burst at around 100,000ft because the pressure drops and the gas volume expands until the latex gives way
[19:42] <JimAM> why not put a balloon, inside of a balloon, with less gas?
[19:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 035052612047_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=5052612047_chase
[19:42] <daveake> how will that help ?
[19:42] <fsphil> weight of the second balloon
[19:44] <JimAM> so you put 70% of your gas inside the inner balloon, and the extra 30% on the outer balloon, when the outer balloon bursts you will still potentially have enough bouyancy for an extra x,000ft
[19:44] <fsphil> they're surpsiginly heavy things
[19:44] <daveake> it won't leave the ground
[19:44] <JimAM> well ok
[19:45] <daveake> if you put enough gas in so it does go up, that will be a lot more gas than with one balloon
[19:45] <fsphil> you just double your amount of latex for no extra lift
[19:45] <daveake> so it will burst lower
[19:45] <daveake> then the second balloon accelerates up
[19:45] <daveake> and bursts where it would have anyway
[19:46] <JimAM> I think someone should try it
[19:46] <fsphil> your second balloon will probably have to carry the weight of the first burst one anyway
[19:46] <fsphil> it'll fall slowly, which is a bad idea
[19:47] <fsphil> easier just to use helium :)
[19:47] <JimAM> what are you guys using these days for the MCU?
[19:47] <fsphil> sorry, hydrogen
[19:48] <fsphil> most flights are atmegas or some form of arm chip
[19:49] <fsphil> if you're going for max altitude you have no alternative than to reduce the payload and balloon weight
[19:50] <fsphil> or use a rocket :)
[19:51] <daveake> or lie ... :/
[19:52] <JimAM> if you need a high sample rate ADC 100MHz, do you have any preferences?
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[19:53] <daveake> for hab ?
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[19:53] <JimAM> laser ranging I was thinking
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[20:01] <fsphil> sounds interesting, and very tricky
[20:01] <SA6BSS-Mike> ps-58 called in on wspr som 20min ago, propogation is looking good, sfi is gonig up and low to none A and K index
[20:04] <MikeUoN> JimAM, I prefer using microchip PICs, you can try using their part finder to find the ideal part for your application. :) http://www.microchip.com/maps/microcontroller.aspx
[20:04] <fsphil> there's always one ;)
[20:04] <fsphil> I suppose it's microchip AVRs now
[20:04] <MikeUoN> lol sorry :P
[20:04] <fsphil> wonder if they'll keep the atmel brand
[20:04] <MikeUoN> yeah indeed, will be interesting to see what happens there
[20:04] <Ian_> [19:46] <JimAM> I think someone should try it. . . . Well volunteered JimAM, don't forget to report back with your findings :-)
[20:05] <fsphil> lol
[20:05] <JimAM> ty
[20:05] <Ian_> de nada!
[20:05] <JimAM> someone being not me and my money ;)
[20:05] <MikeUoN> I believe Google Loom uses a balloon inside a balloon to control altitude
[20:05] <Ian_> Ahhhhhh!
[20:06] <fsphil> yeah, used it to control the pressure
[20:06] <JimAM> those googlers be clever
[20:06] <fsphil> doesn't help with altitude though
[20:07] <JimAM> pressure relief valve with the exit attached to a second deflated balloon?
[20:07] <fsphil> even more weight
[20:08] <Upu> Google Loom ? That the project that uses knit wear to distribute internet ?
[20:08] <fsphil> you need less things
[20:08] <MikeUoN> I thought the idea was if it's falling, deflate inner balloon to increase buoyancy? Gets too high inflate it, etc etc?
[20:08] <Upu> they use a turbine to inflate/deflate a bladder
[20:09] <fsphil> yeah
[20:09] <MikeUoN> Upu, little know fact was Google kicked off the industrial revolution with Loom 1.0 ;)
[20:09] <fsphil> if you inflate the inner balloon with air the amount of atmosphere it displaces is reduced
[20:09] <Upu> :)
[20:09] <MikeUoN> So, doesn't that therefore control altitude? :P
[20:09] <Upu> yes
[20:09] <fsphil> doesn't increase the altitude
[20:09] <mfa298> Loons a *bit* larger than your average hobbiest balloon though so they can do crazy things. They're also not going for maximum altitude
[20:10] <MikeUoN> I never claimed they increased altitude xD
[20:10] <MikeUoN> *max altitude :P
[20:10] <Upu> then they go up and down into which ever wind level takes their fancy and use this to control where the balloon goes
[20:10] <fsphil> I know, but it's what JimAM was thinking of :)
[20:10] <MikeUoN> kk
[20:10] <Upu> using NOAA GFS data
[20:10] <MikeUoN> its all pretty cool
[20:11] <Upu> Yup
[20:11] <fsphil> haven't heard much about loon recently
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[20:22] <Ian_> I think that they had a couple of spectacularly noteable landings a month or two ago if my memory serves me well.
[20:23] <MikeUoN> nice
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[20:24] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-58 after 038 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-58
[20:24] <fsphil> yay
[20:24] <daveake> nice
[20:25] Action: fsphil notes a familiar callsign floating off the african coast
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[20:29] <Upu> haha
[20:29] <Upu> 0,0 Dave ? :)
[20:31] <daveake> what now?
[20:33] <daveake> oh shoot
[20:33] <fsphil> the day one of us actually goes there, nobody will believe them
[20:37] <Upu> the x and y of shame
[20:38] <gonzo_> hmm, polar, rather than cartesian shame
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[21:40] <SM0ULC-Reb> fsphil: first HAB from saint helena? :)
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[22:01] <fsphil> at least it wouldn't be cold
[22:02] <criticalmass> Hello all!
[22:02] <fsphil> ahoy
[22:02] <criticalmass> I always seem to join the party too late. Much going on?
[22:03] <fsphil> not too much :)
[22:04] <criticalmass> Anyone got any spare Honeywell absolute pressure sensor chips kicking about?
[22:07] <eroomde> what kind?
[22:07] <criticalmass> Need one of these bad boys HSCDANN001BA2A3 but they seem to be pretty hard to come by.
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[22:08] <criticalmass> I can get one from the states, but it's going to cost over £50
[22:09] <criticalmass> And they seem to have an 8 week lead time.
[22:10] <eroomde> is it analog?
[22:11] <criticalmass> No, digital.
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[22:11] <criticalmass> http://www.mouser.co.uk/Search/m_ProductDetail.aspx?Honeywell%2fHSCDANN001BA2A3%2f&qs=pcUO8jIlt0ZKTDk0UCSy%252bg%3d%3d
[22:12] <eroomde> hmm, can't help
[22:12] <eroomde> i might have something footprint compatible but analog
[22:12] <eroomde> but nowt digital
[22:12] <mattbrejza> http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Measurement-Specialties/MS560702BA03-00/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvhQj7WZhFIANHEKf5NWCaHx932uxmAwko%3d ?
[22:13] <mattbrejza> http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Amphenol-Advanced-Sensors/NPX-SPI-142T/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvhQj7WZhFIAFSBIHGQz6Ce4AhYA%2fB57uA%3d
[22:13] <mattbrejza> that last one perhaps not, goes upto 10bar
[22:18] <criticalmass> No worries eroomde , thanks anyway.
[22:18] <criticalmass> mattbrejza: I'll have a look at that first one and see of I can make it work.
[22:19] <mattbrejza> http://www.atmel.com/devices/atmega328pb.aspx?tab=overview
[22:19] <mattbrejza> new 328
[22:19] <fsphil> woo, dual uart
[22:19] <mattbrejza> more peripherals, perhaps needed a name change rather than adding B to the end
[22:19] <fsphil> yeah that's not just a simple revision
[22:20] <mattbrejza> the avr ardunio has been wanting for years
[22:20] <mattbrejza> atmel are a bit late
[22:20] <daveake> B-Arduino
[22:20] <mattbrejza> arduino is now dual core intel crap
[22:20] <fsphil> arduino where a bit slow. plenty of other avr chips they could have switched to years ago
[22:21] <mattbrejza> the Bs are also quite a bit cheaper
[22:21] <mattbrejza> 1.88 -> 1.14 in 1000s
[22:26] <Vaizki> this was interesting.. http://rntfnd.org/2016/01/26/gps-was-out-for-some-yesterday/
[22:27] <Vaizki> a bit scary also
[22:27] <Vaizki> maybe the 328pb is backward compatible?
[22:28] <Vaizki> ah ok not available in DIP so not an arduino ;)
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[22:30] <mattbrejza> most people use arduinos with boards though?
[22:31] <mattbrejza> i guess there are quite a large % of those who make thru hole pcbs
[22:32] <Vaizki> two more 16bit timers too..
[22:32] <Vaizki> easy mode!
[22:32] <mattbrejza> oh http://uk.farnell.com/atmel/atmega168pb-au/mcu-8bit-atmega-20mhz-tqfp-32/dp/2423709
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[22:32] <Vaizki> oh what?
[22:33] <mattbrejza> thats a 168pb
[22:33] <mattbrejza> the datasheet farnell link to is wrong though
[22:34] <Vaizki> 328pb goe to 4MHz on 1.8V
[22:34] <mattbrejza> the 168pb only has one uart :/ cba to work out the difference
[22:34] <mattbrejza> it is pretty cheap though
[22:34] <Vaizki> why no the 328pb then?
[22:35] <mattbrejza> you cant buy the 328pb yet
[22:35] <mattbrejza> its on farnell for £1.34
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[22:37] <Vaizki> http://www.mouser.fi/ProductDetail/Atmel/ATMEGA328PB-AU/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvc81WFyF5EdrSRAEYMYvHlMc95YQj%2fArE%3d
[22:37] <Vaizki> 500+ in stock
[22:38] <Vaizki> 2.19eur.. not horrible
[22:38] <mattbrejza> well arnt you guys special :P
[22:38] <Vaizki> what you mean? :)
[22:38] <mattbrejza> oh mouser.co.uk also has them
[22:38] <mattbrejza> ignore me
[22:38] <Vaizki> yea it's just a vanity domain
[22:39] <Vaizki> pretty much changes the hotline phone number, that's it ;)
[22:40] <Vaizki> http://www.digikey.fi/product-detail/en/ATMEGA328PB-ANR/ATMEGA328PB-ANRCT-ND/5722705
[22:40] <Vaizki> also almost 2k in stock
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[22:43] <mattbrejza> i wonder if ardunio will update, or whether they are distracted with crap like this https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoard101
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[22:49] <fsphil> just wish they'd make a decent ide
[22:53] <Vaizki> mattbrejza: well it's a gateway drug, it has to give you rainbows...
[22:54] <Vaizki> 28.65 eur + vat for that genuino101
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[22:55] <mfa298> describing it as a gateway drug would imply users of it moved onto better things. It seems like most Ardunino users get stuck there.
[22:55] <Vaizki> and what the hell is an arduino core (arc)
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[22:57] <mattbrejza> intel website is just as useless
[22:59] <Vaizki> ok.. and then there are just genuinely screwed up sources.. http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/216448-new-arduinos-will-be-shipping-soon-with-intels-curie-chip-inside
[22:59] <Vaizki> " By providing a BASIC-like interpreted interface to access low-level internals, Arduino lets you sample most of the essential features of assembly code without fretting over the assembler. "
[22:59] <Vaizki> roger that!
[23:00] <fsphil> BASIC-like?!
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[23:01] <fsphil> harsh
[23:02] <mfa298> Where's my Arduino BS Bingo card, I think i might have won from that statement :p
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[23:08] <Oddstr13> < Vaizki> 328pb goe to 4MHz on 1.8V <-- So does the P, IIRC
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[23:09] <Oddstr13> does indeed
[23:09] <Oddstr13> I've actually got code for switching clock speed on the fly
[23:10] <Oddstr13> havn't tested with a external crystall, but works with the internal oscillator
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[23:12] <Vaizki> Oddstr13: oh ok, didn't remember that.. hmmh
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[23:23] <Oddstr13> oh, that's a lot better
[23:23] <Oddstr13> apparently farnell linked the summary datasheet
[23:23] <Oddstr13> 24 pages vs. 425 pages
[23:24] <Oddstr13> significant difference :P
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[23:44] <Vaizki> aaand it's a wrap, g'nite&
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[00:00] --- Wed Jan 27 2016