highaltitude.log.20160121

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[05:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0SBU-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0SBU-11
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[06:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03car_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=car_chase
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[08:16] <eroomde> a shame pico's don;t have cameras usually. I imagine you'd get some nice shots from bristolseds as the sun rose over the alps
[08:17] <SpeedEvil> It's not that hard to add.
[08:18] <SpeedEvil> But how the hell do you download.
[08:18] <SpeedEvil> Unless you're willing to wait and get under it with a HGA
[08:19] <eroomde> add it then
[08:19] <eroomde> i'll come back in a week
[08:19] <fsphil> heh, that's not a bad idea
[08:19] <fsphil> they don't have to be live
[08:20] <Vaizki> maybe it could just tweet overt JT9... "amazing! you guys should see this!"
[08:20] <eroomde> indeed
[08:20] <SpeedEvil> I just mean the camera bit is about an order of magnitude or two easier than the downloads
[08:20] <fsphil> yeah
[08:20] <eroomde> yeah
[08:20] <eroomde> i agree - getting them back through aprs is probably not going to happen
[08:20] <fsphil> the little sensors are stupidly light weight too
[08:20] <fsphil> you could easily to small thumbnails through aprs
[08:21] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Smallest-Mini-Camera-Camcorder-Video-Recorder-DVR-Spy-Hidden-Pinhole-Web-cam-/151924221526?hash=item235f63a656:g:6LcAAOSwJcZWeRZc - hah
[08:21] <eroomde> maybe, if uplinks become more of a thing, there could be some option for high bandwidth dumps
[08:21] <SpeedEvil> I guess that'd strip to 5g.
[08:21] <eroomde> some italian in the next few hours could say 'hit me'
[08:22] <eroomde> fsphil: ah yes - if there were thumbs then you could uplink which one you want sent back
[08:22] <fsphil> yeah. pick and choose what looks good
[08:24] <SpeedEvil> I did a simple design with a mobile cam, and got it down to ~3g IIRC
[08:24] <SpeedEvil> that used a now-unobtainable nice JPEG camera chip
[08:24] <SpeedEvil> (the chip output JPEG, it wasn't one of the serial JPEG ones)
[08:24] <fsphil> there are a few of those still about
[08:24] <eroomde> yeah i assume one now has to compress with the application processor
[08:24] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: pretty much
[08:25] <fsphil> doing the jpeg bit on the micro is pretty simple though
[08:25] <eroomde> but, i have written a jpeg compressor before in undergrad. how hard can it be to do in c!
[08:25] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Oh - it's not
[08:25] <fsphil> just has to be fast enough so you don't need the entire raw image in ram
[08:25] <SpeedEvil> the nice part was it also reduced storage bandwidth
[08:27] <fsphil> external ram is quite power hungry
[08:27] <eroomde> you can do jpeg compression as a stream?
[08:27] <eroomde> i'd have thought you need the whole thing
[08:27] <fsphil> yeah, you can work on 8-pixel high lines
[08:27] <fsphil> at a minimum
[08:27] <fsphil> so you'd need width x 8 pixels to start
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[08:29] <fsphil> each jpeg block is independent for the most part, only needing a small bit of data from the previous one
[08:30] <fsphil> and the block can be 8x8, 8x16, 16x8 or 16x16 pixels in size
[08:30] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: 16 high blocks
[08:30] <SpeedEvil> oh
[08:30] <SpeedEvil> 8 high if greyscale
[08:30] <SpeedEvil> http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/mmc/FM132/SC1056 - for example
[08:30] <fsphil> nah, even colour has 8x8 mode
[08:30] <SpeedEvil> All of these are now CSI or some other silly mode
[08:31] <SpeedEvil> which requires you to have a multi-hundred-megabit serial interface
[08:31] <fsphil> which is higher quality too, as it doesn't then reduce colour resolution
[08:31] <fsphil> but larger images
[08:32] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ti.com/sitesearch/docs/universalsearch.tsp?searchTerm=impactron#linkId=2 - meh
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[08:33] <SpeedEvil> I had hopes at one point that these would become cheap. (on-chip intensified CCDs)
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[08:34] <fsphil> would be nice to get a cheap sensor without a rolling shutter
[08:35] <SpeedEvil> that too
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[08:36] <SpeedEvil> Annoyingly of course, there is a $2 chinese chip without any docs for this purpose.
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[08:37] <SpeedEvil> http://boardzoo.com/index.php/warpboard/warpboard.html#.VqCYqvG6uRs would have been great.
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[08:38] <SpeedEvil> But this was perhaps the worst launch of a devboard ever, even if it would have almost suited picos.
[08:39] <SpeedEvil> Sort-of-a smaller gumstix
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[08:39] <SpeedEvil> http://www.warpboard.org/ perhaps best summs up the current state.
[08:40] <eroomde> amusing how we're back to over-powered linux SBCs being popular in hab
[08:40] <eroomde> much heavier and larger ones than we started with too
[08:40] <SpeedEvil> Pi vs stix
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[08:46] Nick change: andyvk5_ -> andyvk5
[08:46] <SpeedEvil> It's a bit annoying that the only readily available easy to use camera is an 80*80 pixel IR one :)
[08:47] <fsphil> the OV cameras are quite ackward to use
[08:47] <fsphil> the datasheets are hard to get and have a lot of undocumented registers
[08:49] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: yes.
[08:49] <SpeedEvil> I actually have 30 camera chips here.
[08:50] <SpeedEvil> But they're 160*160 B+W in a lqfp32 and very crap
[08:50] <fsphil> sounds like the sort of thing you'd find in an optical mouse
[08:50] <SpeedEvil> Not _quite_ that bad.
[08:50] <SpeedEvil> But approaching
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03o rahman_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=o%20rahman_chase
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[09:08] <AndyEsser> morning
[09:09] <fsphil> g'morn
[09:10] <AndyEsser> USBEDS13 made it to France?
[09:10] <AndyEsser> nice
[09:11] <lz1dev> .ping usbeds13
[09:11] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: No contact from 03usbeds13
[09:12] <lz1dev> .ping ubseds13
[09:12] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Last contact with 03UBSEDS13 was 039 hours ago
[09:12] <lz1dev> .whereis ubseds13
[09:12] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: 03UBSEDS13 was over 03Aisne, France 10(50.0217,3.9654) at 0310129 meters about 039 hours ago
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[09:19] <fsphil> that's a rather good altitude
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[09:46] <AndyEsser> "Hi Andy, my phone isn't working. Thanks"
[09:46] <AndyEsser> ...
[09:46] <AndyEsser> I hate users
[09:49] <fsphil> what would be do without them
[09:49] <fsphil> oh yeah, have some peace and quiet
[09:49] <AndyEsser> hehe
[09:50] <fsphil> one of our users is interested in how things work. which means I get random questions on how email or wifi works
[09:50] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:51] <fsphil> "well, what exactly is radio?" -- "er..."
[09:51] <AndyEsser> "Magic"
[09:51] <fsphil> yes
[09:51] Action: AndyEsser disappears in poof of smoke
[09:51] <fsphil> hah, should have said that
[09:54] <fsphil> james maxwell was infact a wizard
[09:54] <fsphil> even has the beard
[09:54] <fsphil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clerk_Maxwell
[09:54] <AndyEsser> brb
[09:55] <fsphil> just needs the hat
[09:55] <AndyEsser> time to go fix the phone
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[10:18] <eroomde> you're like us with it support
[10:18] <eroomde> life would be better without users
[10:19] <eroomde> we bitch that our customers keep changing their mind with research programmes
[10:19] <eroomde> or delay deciding what to do next after a batch of testing
[10:19] <eroomde> why can't they just give the 4 of us £1m of their money with no string attached
[10:19] <eroomde> honestly
[10:19] <eroomde> some people
[10:21] <lz1dev> for 1m im ready to work
[10:22] <eroomde> sadly it doesn't all go on salaries
[10:22] <eroomde> hardware is quite pricey
[10:26] <AndyEsser> indeed, £1m wouldn't actually go _that_ far
[10:27] <eroomde> it does go quite far
[10:27] <eroomde> it wouldn't go far if you got QinetiQ to do a rocket test
[10:28] <AndyEsser> good lord... their website
[10:28] <AndyEsser> "People who know how to help you achieve the impossible"
[10:28] <eroomde> £400k of it would go towards the man-hours among the purchasing department to set up a new account and supplier in their amazing and faultless oracle db rape-o-tron 10000
[10:29] <eroomde> and the rest of paying the audit team to make sure that you did indeed properly get 3 competiting quotes to buy the pencils for the stationary cabinet
[10:29] <eroomde> but who cares about spending money properly when there's always more from taxpayers
[10:29] <eroomde> however, we can do quite a lot with said money
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[10:29] <AndyEsser> I imagine with £1m I could do a fairly awesome set of HAB launches :)
[10:30] <AndyEsser> heh
[10:30] <eroomde> maybe
[10:30] <eroomde> i'm not sure what you'd spend it on
[10:30] <gonzo_> it was similar when I worked at GEC
[10:30] <eroomde> i'd do a big hab launch probably
[10:30] <eroomde> rather than lots of latex ones
[10:30] <eroomde> something in antarctica
[10:30] <fsphil> a really large super pressure
[10:30] <gonzo_> to order a resistor from RS cost us £70
[10:30] <fsphil> was the resistor made from a large block of lead?
[10:31] <gonzo_> nope byr the purchasing system was
[10:31] <eroomde> the world would be so improved if oracle disappeared tomorrow
[10:31] <fsphil> hah
[10:31] <gonzo_> well nit's arse was full of it
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[10:31] <fsphil> only if virtualbox stayed around
[10:31] <fsphil> the only product they haven't screwed up yet
[10:31] <eroomde> they could split sun back out
[10:31] <eroomde> like the ejecta from a collapsing black holer
[10:31] <eroomde> hole*
[10:32] <mfa298> just think of all the wordpress blogs which would disappear overnight if Oracle/MySQL went.
[10:32] <daveake> I don't know if it was true or not, but when I was at GEC there was a story going round of someone who ordered a 250MW transformer instead of a 250mW one, and got a call when it turned up on the back of a flat-bed truck
[10:32] <daveake> I bet it didn't happen but it'd be great if it did
[10:32] <fsphil> haha
[10:32] <eroomde> i can sort-of believe it
[10:32] <fsphil> the RS website probably had the MW one first on the list
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[10:32] <gonzo_> make out the purchase req, send it up the chain to ve signed by a director, scrut'ed along the way, then identify the person bes placed to fulfill the order coprrectly, ie yourself.
[10:32] <daveake> before anything website :)
[10:33] <mfa298> more believable if the ordering system / purchasing dept changed the m to M without realising the significance
[10:33] <gonzo_> and each dept adds their cut
[10:33] <eroomde> and yet it's 'better' that comapnies get more and more people
[10:34] <eroomde> that's how we measure success
[10:34] <SM0ULC-Reb> eroomde: mm, their move of buying Sun an then just kill the OS and ignore existing contracts with support etc was not impressive. We have totallt moved away from Oracle now.
[10:34] <eroomde> even though increasing size is basically awful for any metric to do with innovation or engineering
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[10:34] <eroomde> i wish cambridge uni would drop oracle
[10:34] <eroomde> they have enough good people who should know better
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[10:35] <eroomde> it's for people who don't understand what they're doing but like being taken out for meals
[10:35] <mfa298> SM0ULC-Reb: that said some of the bits coming out from what was OpenSolaris are pretty decent.
[10:37] <Oddstr13> I think I'll keep that clip-on ferrite on the HackRF USB cable xD https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_11-36-00.png
[10:37] <gonzo_> a saying i quite like, re. software. Measuring software progress by the number of lines coded, is like measuring airctaft design, by the weight.
[10:37] <fsphil> hmm, I'm not using a ferrite on mine.
[10:37] <SM0ULC-Reb> mfa298: yes, but I wouldn't trust Oracle with any business any longer. Signed contracts and payment won't make them deliver.. :/
[10:38] <SM0ULC-Reb> mfa298: that's why workplace haved made efforts to leave Oracles stuff.
[10:38] <fsphil> they might implode soon enough if they keep this up
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[10:39] <mfa298> SM0ULC-Reb: agreed on that, Im currently thinking of moving my ESXi system to SmartOS which is Based on the OpenSolaris kernels but has lots of improvements (and no Oracle in sight)
[10:39] <SM0ULC-Reb> oh, cool :)
[10:39] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Is the B64 page on spacenear.us still available ?
[10:40] <mfa298> they've had kvm support for a while and recently added lxbranded zones (something I'm sure Sun talked about years ago) and also some docker support (although I'm not sure I'd use either of those for production yet)
[10:41] <Laurenceb_> Geoff-G8DHE_: I downloaded the klm from habitat
[10:41] <Laurenceb_> forgot how sorry :P
[10:41] Action: Laurenceb_ was looking at float altitude and pressure
[10:41] <eroomde> kml not klm
[10:41] <eroomde> if you look at klm in google earth you'll wonder why the path keeps going to airports
[10:42] <Laurenceb_> dyslexia++
[10:42] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yes I have it too, but I wanted a simple easy to get at picture for someone who is interested, there was a page on the tracker at one point
[10:42] <Laurenceb_> ah
[10:42] <Geoff-G8DHE_> I have my own images as well but thought it would be an easy introduction if it was using the Tracker!
[10:42] <Laurenceb_> I don't know sorry
[10:42] <Geoff-G8DHE_> lz1dev, ?
[10:43] <Laurenceb_> you need adamgreig
[10:43] <Laurenceb_> lz1dev runs the graphs site
[10:43] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Is the B64 page still available on the tracker ?
[10:43] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Rossen also re-wrote the spacenear.us site
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[10:44] <Laurenceb_> this is perplexing http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35361093 surely those tube are going to crumple
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[10:45] <Laurenceb_> Geoff-G8DHE_: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-64/index.html
[10:46] <Oddstr13> speaking of horrible technology, that bbc link requires flash to play
[10:46] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yes I might use that if I can't find the tracker version, trying to keep it really simple to start with ;-)
[10:47] <Laurenceb_> heh Oddstr13
[10:47] <Laurenceb_> so many people dont seem to realise Elon was trolling them
[10:48] <Oddstr13> uh... 1Mm/h? ._.
[10:56] <lz1dev> Geoff-G8DHE_: what are you looking for?
[10:59] <Geoff-G8DHE_> On the tracker spacenear.us site you had a page that showed just the B64 flight ?
[10:59] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Is it still there ?
[11:00] <lz1dev> no
[11:00] <lz1dev> just find the flight id
[11:00] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah OK, guessed that might be it.
[11:00] <lz1dev> and put in the tracker
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[11:01] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yup tried that but no nothing
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[11:01] <eroomde> i have bought something
[11:02] <eroomde> it will make you jealous
[11:02] <eroomde> i you ready?
[11:02] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9qbkoexncc6ay67/2016-01-21%2010.54.18.jpg?dl=0
[11:02] <Geoff-G8DHE_> You'll spend longer trying to find the right one!
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[11:03] <lz1dev> !track 7ea204a4c8bc4ba2c36ae171c4253afe
[11:03] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Here you go - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=7ea204a4c8bc4ba2c36ae171c4253afe
[11:03] <eroomde> Geoff-G8DHE_: no, because they're all in type and size order
[11:03] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah right it needs the flight doc ID
[11:03] <eroomde> i made it so
[11:04] <AndyEsser> eroomde: one of them is bent
[11:05] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Its a PC screwdriver ;-)
[11:06] <eroomde> it's a chip remover
[11:06] <eroomde> observe different colour handle
[11:06] <mfa298> if only I could get something like that at work and know that they'de all be there a week later, (Getting it wouldn't be too much of an issue, stopping some of them walking off to never return would be)
[11:08] <eroomde> you just have to be scary
[11:08] <eroomde> then the tools tend to stay put
[11:11] <eroomde> leave the screwdrivers by this man http://static.themetapicture.com/pic/images/2015/05/20/funny-gif-man-eating-shouting-dog.gif
[11:11] <AndyEsser> wat
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[11:12] <fsphil> lol
[11:12] <eroomde> i am actually like that
[11:12] <eroomde> in my nice electronics lab at work
[11:12] <adamgreig> eroomde: I'm upset that the handle height doesn't correspond to sort order
[11:12] <eroomde> with my personal collection of stainless m3 fittings in all shapes and sizes which are just for electronics
[11:13] <eroomde> not for mechanical trolls to weld to dirty bits of box section
[11:13] <eroomde> andy will come it and start moving towards the draw in which i keep them
[11:13] <eroomde> and i will take from him his life
[11:13] <eroomde> and no we have an understanding
[11:13] <AndyEsser> :)
[11:14] <AndyEsser> I don't touch other people's tools
[11:14] <AndyEsser> #1 rule
[11:14] <eroomde> not you
[11:14] <eroomde> andy rocket andy
[11:14] <eroomde> my colleague
[11:14] <AndyEsser> I WANNA BE ROCKET ANDY
[11:14] Action: AndyEsser makes the whoosh noise
[11:14] <Oddstr13> eroomde: not sure if I like the fact that there are several rows, I'd want mine in separate rows on a wall or some such
[11:14] <eroomde> well you're not
[11:14] <daveake> #1 rule is "don't touch my #1 rule(r)"
[11:14] <eroomde> Oddstr13: there is no more wall
[11:14] <Oddstr13> eroomde: oh, okay
[11:14] <Oddstr13> too many fancy tools? :P
[11:15] <eroomde> yep
[11:15] <Oddstr13> awesome
[11:15] <fsphil> there is no wall. only tools
[11:15] <daveake> and connectors
[11:15] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Dip the ends of the screwdrivers in Nitrogen triiodide and watch them try to take them ;-)
[11:16] <eroomde> they will live on a shelf on the right here https://www.dropbox.com/s/4nwq2vubb4nml3g/2013-05-21%2020.19.33.jpg?dl=0&preview=2013-05-21+20.19.33.jpg
[11:16] <eroomde> note the lab is currently substantially less tody that it is in the photo
[11:16] <eroomde> tidy*
[11:16] <fsphil> there needs to be a home improvement show on TV, but for home labs
[11:16] <eroomde> starring Tim Allen Key
[11:17] <Oddstr13> eroomde: how'd you get it that tidy in the first place? :P
[11:17] <eroomde> seeing that photo reminds me that there is no ELSA (the yellow thing on the window sill) in the lab anymore
[11:17] <eroomde> i should fix it
[11:17] <SpeedEvil> Very expensive test gear, and old very expensive test gear
[11:17] <eroomde> Oddstr13: i had a tidy!
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> Oooh - and top left I think is my scope
[11:18] <eroomde> an old hameg i got from uni
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> oh - no then
[11:18] <eroomde> when they were giving them away
[11:18] <eroomde> i am going to take it to my home lab actually
[11:18] <eroomde> i like having it around especially when you are worried about putting badness into a pricier scope
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> I thought it was a Tek 475A
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> Or similare
[11:19] <eroomde> no, though there is a tek 465 out of shot on the right
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> ah
[11:19] <eroomde> which i loves
[11:19] <FuzzyLemon> Hello! Planning to launch a scorpion on Monday. Please can I have the flight doc approved: aa546336c6e0c5cb1c09b2ee65a4246b
[11:20] <AndyEsser> fsphil: I got the reference for the only tools line - don't worry
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: It's truly amazing just how many MACs you need to fake an analog scope digitally
[11:20] <eroomde> literally a scorpion FuzzyLemon?
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> They have great visual memory
[11:21] <AndyEsser> eroomde: wait... is that the room I saw on Saturday?
[11:21] <eroomde> yes
[11:21] <AndyEsser> wow
[11:21] <eroomde> like i said, it is somewhat less tody there now
[11:21] <FuzzyLemon> unfortunately no. that's just the project name
[11:21] <AndyEsser> that's an understatement :)
[11:21] <eroomde> we just finished a cool thing but it does look a little bombed
[11:22] <craag> FuzzyLemon: Ask in #habhub
[11:22] <FuzzyLemon> we are sending mammalian blood and squid blood up
[11:22] <eroomde> AndyEsser: i take the view that if you have a lab as messy as jim williams, you will be as good at electronics as jim williams http://m.eet.com/media/1123761/291880-jim_williams_in_his_lab_2007.jpg
[11:23] <AndyEsser> *shudder*
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[11:23] <daveake> I fail https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZPX-KbWcAAKtOy.jpg:large
[11:24] <AndyEsser> daveake: interesting... your room seems to be roughly the same size and layout as mine
[11:24] <AndyEsser> I need to organise mine better
[11:24] <AndyEsser> and get some storage
[11:24] <eroomde> i bet he has morte monitors tho
[11:24] <daveake> that's a very wide-angle lens
[11:24] <AndyEsser> eroomde: yes, currently only have 2 up and running
[11:25] <AndyEsser> got 2 more in the spare room I should use
[11:25] <AndyEsser> but don't really have space atm
[11:25] <eroomde> i wouldn't mind another
[11:25] <eroomde> but no great urgency
[11:25] <eroomde> it costs about the same to get another of the ones i have as it does to get a nice toolchest
[11:25] <eroomde> the latter of which is much more important atm
[11:26] <AndyEsser> I'd like to get another 27" to match my other one
[11:26] <SM0ULC-Reb> :)
[11:26] <SM0ULC-Reb> i have one 19 and one 21", 3/4...
[11:27] <eroomde> how long does it take to get the mouse pointer from fully left to fully right daveake?
[11:28] <daveake> <1s
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[11:28] <eroomde> nice
[11:28] <eroomde> i will build up to this slowly
[11:28] <gonzo_> is it like trying to use one of the toy cars that you used to have to rev up on the floor to get the fly wheel going
[11:29] <daveake> less than the width of the mousepad if I move it slowly; a lot less if quickly
[11:29] <daveake> hah
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[11:31] <gonzo_> I have a few monitors on my desks, but they are not all on the same pc
[11:31] <gonzo_> which causes confusion when I am trying to get the mouse pointer across
[11:31] <AndyEsser> haha
[11:31] <AndyEsser> done that before
[11:31] <daveake> Ah, there's a solution for that
[11:31] <AndyEsser> used to have 2 PC's (+ laptop) at my last job
[11:31] <AndyEsser> kept getting the keyboards the wrong away around
[11:32] <daveake> http://synergy-project.org/
[11:32] <gonzo_> do you have a problem with those dell monitors forgetting their iedntity during windoze updates?
[11:32] <eroomde> i enjoyed synergy when i had the same issue
[11:32] <AndyEsser> daveake: sadly my PC's were on physically separated networks
[11:32] <daveake> Yes synergy is very nice
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[11:33] <daveake> gonzo_ No, only time I've had to reconfigure which monitor is which is when I've moved house and connected them up in a different order
[11:35] <gonzo_> we have probs at work where the monitors lose their id and come up as generif 640-480. And windows moves all the icons
[11:35] <gonzo_> you have to mains power the monitor down for at least 40sec.
[11:36] <daveake> Ah, no, not had that at all
[11:36] <daveake> Only issue is sometimes a monitor doesn't come up from power-save
[11:36] <gonzo_> it ruined IT's day whgen it first happened
[11:36] <daveake> So I catrl-alt-del then press ESC, and it's fine
[11:36] <gonzo_> yes we get that too sometimes
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[11:45] <fsphil> lots of people have the corner desk thing. it looks good
[11:45] <eroomde> yeah i like it
[11:45] <eroomde> keeps stuff at a more constant radius from you
[11:45] <daveake> yes, love it
[11:45] <daveake> get one and a decent chair
[11:45] <Oddstr13> I don't think I'll see anything interesting here anytime soon; https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_12-45-03.png
[11:46] <Oddstr13> ...except my wireless keyboard at 27.1
[11:47] <fsphil> love the curved shelf too daveake
[11:47] <eroomde> i am sticking to my wireless keyboard in my home lab but i will be looking closely for evidence of inteference
[11:48] <fsphil> I don't trust wireless keyboards enough to enter passwords on. computer security has made me paranoid :)
[11:48] <daveake> Well angled rather than curved, but yeah that's nice. I put all my working-on Pi boards up there
[11:48] <daveake> plus PSU and network switch and HDMI switch
[11:49] <eroomde> if i did replace it it's have to be a nice mechanical one
[11:49] <eroomde> with shielded usb cable
[11:49] <daveake> that shelf was the key to clearing the desk top
[11:50] <fsphil> having the shelf for the psu and scope has made quite a difference here
[11:50] <daveake> yep. I have those on my left
[11:51] <Oddstr13> hm... amazing what a few loops on the USB cable, and moving it away from the radiator did; https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_12-50-14.png
[11:51] <Darkside_> right, so next launch i'm hoping to have maybe 4 people chatting via the balloon
[11:51] <daveake> The plus side of being short of space is that you have to make good use of what you've got
[11:51] <Darkside_> via the lora payload
[11:51] <eroomde> Upu: contraversial opinion, prepare yourself
[11:51] <daveake> Nice Darkside_. I saw that you did some LoRa chatting last time
[11:51] <Darkside_> yeah
[11:51] <Darkside_> this time there'll be lora hardware in both chase cars
[11:52] <Darkside_> so we should be able to chat to each other
[11:52] <Darkside_> and there'll be a few other ground stations too
[11:52] <eroomde> i sort of prefer my plastic rotring tikky to my rotring rapid pro metal thingamie
[11:52] <daveake> The thought crossed my mind too, but it's rare to be completely out of touch here
[11:52] <UpuWork> zomg eroomde
[11:52] <eroomde> i know that's bad
[11:52] <Darkside_> daveake: well we're only rarely out of phone coverage (with external antennas anyway)
[11:52] <UpuWork> Actually the reason my brass one is in the garage and the one I have in the house is a Tikki or whatever the plastic one is
[11:52] <Darkside_> but it's still fun
[11:53] <daveake> yup :)
[11:54] <fsphil> tikky?
[11:54] <fsphil> oh pens
[11:54] Action: fsphil rushes away from subject
[11:54] <eroomde> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001B2GQV8?keywords=rotring%20tikki&qid=1453377277&ref_=sr_1_sc_6&sr=8-6-spell
[11:55] <daveake> yes, speak with reverence and speak not at all
[11:55] <eroomde> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001J8CI1Q?keywords=rotring%20tikki&qid=1453377277&ref_=sr_1_sc_2&sr=8-2-spell
[11:55] <daveake> s/and/or/
[11:55] <eroomde> aint half a bad deal
[11:56] <daveake> I'd better 'shop my office pic to remove that cheap plastic retractable
[11:57] <eroomde> i need a usb hub for home desk actually
[11:57] <Oddstr13> I should throw away this flat ribbon ethernet cable... https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_12-56-40.png
[11:57] <Oddstr13> but it is so handy to have around, and takes so litle space when not needed :P
[11:58] <eroomde> Oddstr13: it's like we're operators in the matrix
[11:58] <eroomde> a bunch of squiggles moving vertically up a screen and you saying 'heh look at that ethernet cable'
[11:59] <Oddstr13> well, I unplugged it, and a bunch of the noise disappeared :P
[12:00] <fsphil> turning off everything in your house can help
[12:00] <fsphil> you won't hear any interference at all
[12:00] <Oddstr13> ofcourse!
[12:01] <Oddstr13> cause that includes the receiving gear..
[12:01] <gonzo_> it's a bugger that the RF environment is getting noisier, but I often find that being the person moth the most electronic crap running, it's usual;ly me generating it
[12:01] <fsphil> hehe yeah
[12:01] <Oddstr13> oh, I know I'm generating a huge chunk of what noise I'm seeing :P
[12:02] <fsphil> my APC UPS boxes are quite RF noisy
[12:02] <fsphil> even when they're on standby
[12:02] <gonzo_> even buying ferrites by the bucket, it's still a battle to keep it under control
[12:02] <daveake> I remember making an MSF receiver when young. Couldn't get the damn thing to work. Then parents switched off the TV and the receiver sprang into life.
[12:02] <fsphil> oh the old CRTs used to wipe out LW and MW reception
[12:03] <gonzo_> I built a simple specan as a kid, using a tv tuner block, swept using a mains transformer
[12:03] <Oddstr13> switches, routers, PCs, HDMI monitors, power adaptors by the bucketloads
[12:03] <daveake> 60kHz ... not far off the CRT line refresh
[12:03] <Oddstr13> oh, and all the CAT5e UTP
[12:03] <gonzo_> worked well, but the sweeping LO was putting bars on all the TVs in the street
[12:03] <fsphil> I made a point of installing sheilded cat5 at the new house
[12:03] <fsphil> it does seem to have helped
[12:03] <daveake> modern power bricks are often pretty bad
[12:04] <gonzo_> the soladin 600 was awful on hf
[12:04] <fsphil> yeah
[12:04] <fsphil> mine's currently in storage
[12:04] <gonzo_> killed <10MHz s9+lots
[12:04] <fsphil> not sure I'll put it back on
[12:05] <gonzo_> good shatfner filters on the dc side work
[12:05] <Oddstr13> daveake: I actually have yet to identify any noise directly caused by the power bricks I have
[12:05] <fsphil> walk around your house with a small antenna, make a heat map
[12:05] <fsphil> I think Darkside_ did something like that once?
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[12:06] <Oddstr13> fsphil: should make a android app for that! :P
[12:07] <gonzo_> I have to change some trips on the CU so will do a controled power up and noise patrol
[12:09] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_13-09-14.png
[12:09] <fsphil> oh neat
[12:10] <daveake> Dunno if anyone else saw it, but during one of last week's Stargazxing shows they had an article about a radio telescope where they have a roving "interference sniffer" bloke who drives round with a discone on the roof and various radio scanners/spectrum analysers bolted to the dash
[12:10] <Oddstr13> what's the bandwith on DRM?
[12:10] <fsphil> usually 9 or 10khz
[12:10] <fsphil> that's not DRM
[12:11] <Oddstr13> probably my old friend the OTH radar then
[12:11] <fsphil> http://spectrafold.com/quadrus/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/02/drm04.jpg
[12:11] <fsphil> DRM is like DAB but narrower
[12:12] <Oddstr13> possibly pluto
[12:12] <Oddstr13> http://www.sigidwiki.com/wiki/PLUTO_II_Radar
[12:13] <fsphil> doesn't look that similar
[12:13] <Oddstr13> it's a weak signal
[12:13] <Oddstr13> sounds about the same as the samples
[12:13] <Oddstr13> and the bandwidth is about right I think
[12:14] <Oddstr13> and I have seen it in the past
[12:14] <fsphil> frequency is too low
[12:14] <fsphil> oh the frequency varies
[12:14] <fsphil> could be then
[12:16] <Oddstr13> if you have a look under additional images, 4 of those are mine ^^
[12:16] <Oddstr13> from back in november 2014
[12:18] <Oddstr13> 85cm antenna, what frequency would that be optimal for?
[12:19] <Oddstr13> seeing AM signals a bit further up in frequency now
[12:20] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_13-20-31.png
[12:21] <Oddstr13> chinese by the sound of it
[12:23] <gonzo_> 85cm is aboyt 88mhz
[12:23] <Oddstr13> so, fm
[12:23] <gonzo_> or 3x that for a 3/43wavelength
[12:23] <gonzo_> 3/4
[12:24] <gonzo_> pretty much yes
[12:24] <Oddstr13> so, the antenna that comes with the hackrf is optimal for FM reception :P
[12:24] <Oddstr13> at full length
[12:24] <gonzo_> if telescopic, you can adjust it to suit
[12:25] <Oddstr13> yea, but only up in frequency
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[12:25] <fsphil> the hackrf is not brilliant at low frequencies anyway
[12:25] <fsphil> though it can work there which was a bit of a surprise
[12:25] <Oddstr13> nor is the RTL-SDR :P
[12:25] <gonzo_> but as an indoor antenna, screwed to the sid eof a pcb, it's goinbg to be pretty poor, so adjusting it to tune is not going to make much difference
[12:26] <Oddstr13> I'm listening to what sounds like a chinese news radio
[12:26] <gonzo_> my main sdr is still thye RFSpace SDR-IQ. A bit old now but has proper rf in it
[12:27] <gonzo_> I use it on the IF of the ar5000 too. But will have a play with the airspy at some stage
[12:28] <Maxell> Yes, yes. Less helium for us >:) http://i.sigio.nl/a4707d4e77c0e87eb368866ec15e9039.png
[12:28] <Oddstr13> got any web calculators where I can input a harmonic frequency, and get the possible original frequencies?
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[12:29] <gonzo_> if it's straight multiples, rather than mixing products, just divide it
[12:30] <Oddstr13> cause I'm seeing AM radio on 33.65MHz :P
[12:31] <gonzo_> it's unlikely that is a straight harmonic, unless you are overdriving the RX badly
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[12:32] <Oddstr13> I havn't quite figured out the gain settings on the hackrf yet, so that might very well be
[12:34] <Oddstr13> found a stronger signal in english language at about 13.79 MHz
[12:35] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_13-35-20.png
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[12:37] <Oddstr13> china radio international according to short-wave.info
[12:37] <FuzzyLemon> daveake: could you have used SSDV to see live pictures of your AstroPi during the 'tweeting above the clouds' flight?
[12:38] <FuzzyLemon> can you use a Pi camera and an astropi simultaneously?
[12:38] <daveake> Flight hasn't happened yet. There will be live images but not of the LED (it'd only be 1 character showing, if that)
[12:38] <daveake> yes
[12:38] <daveake> pits / sense hat / camera all coexist happilt
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[12:40] <Oddstr13> apparently it's transmitted at 500kW from Urumqi, 5130km-ish from here
[12:41] <R34lB0rg> could a hab possibly connect to a ground based open wlan? using a highly directional antenna?
[12:42] <gonzo_> you would need a huge antenna on the ground
[12:42] <fsphil> yes. but with great difficulty
[12:42] <gonzo_> and airborn 2.4ghs will be limited to 10mW
[12:43] <R34lB0rg> i thought about acessing open wlans below as they come and go
[12:43] <fsphil> never gonna happen
[12:43] <fsphil> unless you're floating at 20m above ground
[12:43] <craag> even then you'd struggle at wind speed to associate in time I bet
[12:44] <fsphil> even then, how many open wifi points do you see anymore?
[12:44] <R34lB0rg> people are using wlan links over much greater distance without even a directional antenna
[12:44] <fsphil> no they're not
[12:44] <Oddstr13> oh, normal wifi antennas are rather directional
[12:44] <AndyEsser> Cantenna :)
[12:44] <fsphil> you'll get tens of metres tops with omni directional antennas
[12:45] <craag> you can do 50-100m in free space, outdoors, no obstructions, etc
[12:45] <Oddstr13> good luck getting a reliable connection to a wifi router on the floor directly below, with the antenna pointing straight up
[12:45] <Vaizki> you don't want normal wlan anyway.. it depends on AP-Client association and if that falters the link drops and you are screwed
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[12:46] <fsphil> I would still like to try wifi - to transmit the video of the launch from the payloads point of view
[12:46] <R34lB0rg> Vaizki, not for tracking anyway, but would be fun to have a webserver in the stratosphere
[12:46] <fsphil> it should remain in contact for a minute or so
[12:46] <Oddstr13> I've been able to associate with wifi as a passenger of a car, but that is rather challenbging too
[12:46] <fsphil> you'd want to fly the AP on the payload
[12:46] <fsphil> see if people on the ground can connect to it
[12:46] <fsphil> not the other way around
[12:47] <Vaizki> there is a hack of using wifi L2 to stream video without association
[12:47] <Vaizki> was discussed here before, https://befinitiv.wordpress.com/wifibroadcast-analog-like-transmission-of-live-video-data/
[12:47] <fsphil> I remember that. never did get a chance to try it
[12:47] <gonzo_> use a good rx with lna on the ground and a decent antenns (3mtr dish...)
[12:48] <fsphil> one of those collapsable umbrella dishs would be handy
[12:48] <Oddstr13> I actually have a rather big dish antenna lying around
[12:48] <Vaizki> with normal wifi good rx is not enough
[12:49] <Oddstr13> was used as a satelite uplink on a shell petrol station in the past
[12:49] <Vaizki> because if the payload doesn't hear you back, it loses the association
[12:49] <gonzo_> I am still mourning the passing of mine. But it was never going to be used
[12:49] <fsphil> I've a 1.2m dish in the garage I'd like to try with the hackr
[12:49] <fsphil> +f
[12:49] <gonzo_> I even cleared out the 1.6mtr and 5ft ones
[12:50] <gonzo_> 1.2mtrs is a useable gain at 2.4GHz
[12:50] <gonzo_> (look at G6LVB site, he has sone good info for feeds to 2.4GHz dishes, for amsat work)
[12:51] <fsphil> I think the hackrf works up to 6ghz, wonder if there's any deep space stuff on those frequencies
[12:51] <gonzo_> mainly at 8GHz
[12:52] <Oddstr13> oh, that's rtty, time to take out fldigi :3
[12:52] <fsphil> mmm rtty at 8ghz :)
[12:52] <Vaizki> https://medium.com/kickstarter/how-zano-raised-millions-on-kickstarter-and-left-backers-with-nearly-nothing-85c0abe4a6cb#.uxy8ulfu9
[12:52] <gonzo_> there is lots of TT&C at 2.2GHz
[12:52] <Vaizki> wow what an extensive writeup
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[12:53] <daveake> yeah read that last night
[12:54] <Vaizki> but that guy Reedman is not an innocent over optimistic entrepreneur but a criminal full of shit in my book based on the comments
[12:54] <Vaizki> I mean comments he makes
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[12:54] <Oddstr13> actually, anyone got rtty decoding software that can guess settings like baud rate?
[12:55] <Vaizki> I call it a logic analyzer but haven't hooked it up to a radio yet :)
[12:55] <Oddstr13> hah
[12:56] <Oddstr13> signal faded too much anyways now
[12:59] <gonzo_> hoka used to do that I recall
[13:00] <gonzo_> or just look at it on a scope
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[13:04] <Oddstr13> I am actually able to decode JT65 on 30m with just the hackrf sitting in the window
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[13:10] <R6mco> Oddstr13: which program you use ?
[13:11] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_14-10-59.png
[13:11] <Oddstr13> combined with SDR# and VB-Audio virtual cable
[13:11] <R6mco> ok.. try wsjtx also
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[13:12] <Oddstr13> yea, setting up the picospace version as we speak
[13:12] <R6mco> yep, but then you've to use JT9
[13:12] <Oddstr13> ah, come on, lock files? :P
[13:12] <Oddstr13> I wana run 1.5 AND 1.6 :P
[13:13] <R6mco> ok..
[13:13] <R6mco> there is a trick for that
[13:14] <R6mco> you want to run both JT65 and JT9 ?
[13:14] <R6mco> for the HAB version, choose 1.6 - devel of wsjtx from the picospace site
[13:14] <Oddstr13> oh, it was just that WSJT-X is using a lock file, probably in %APPDATA% somewhere
[13:15] <Oddstr13> both versions where using the same lock file
[13:15] <R6mco> okidoki
[13:16] <R6mco> I run two instances of WSJTX here. One (tries to) decode JT9 and upload it to habhub.org and pskreporter.info, the other instance decodes wspr and uploads it to wsprnet.org
[13:16] <Oddstr13> what mode do I want to run it in?
[13:16] <R6mco> first tell me what you want ; -)
[13:16] <R6mco> <- slave mode and gives answer ;-)
[13:16] <Oddstr13> everything! >:D
[13:17] <R6mco> grmpff
[13:18] <R6mco> we do the first step, wspr and frequency calibration of your dongle
[13:18] <R6mco> install normal wsjtx 1.6.0 release (this has a better decoder)
[13:19] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_14-18-27.png wheeee
[13:19] <R6mco> ok
[13:19] <Oddstr13> ...I need another screen xD
[13:20] <R6mco> for these modes it is very important that your frequency is ok
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[13:20] <R6mco> tune to 9996.000 kHz
[13:20] <R6mco> there is RWM, a Russian time signal
[13:20] <R6mco> you should see it in the waterfall
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[13:21] <Oddstr13> gimme a sec, downloading the normal version of wsjt-x
[13:21] <R6mco> ok ..
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[13:23] <Vaizki> btw why is it 9996.000 kHz and not 9.996000 MHz.. is this a RA thing?
[13:24] <Vaizki> and why did the russians choose 9996 instead of 10000....
[13:25] <Vaizki> confusion!
[13:25] <Oddstr13> R6mco: I have a strong carrier on about exactly 10kHz
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[13:26] <R6mco> ok
[13:26] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_14-26-40.png
[13:26] <R6mco> tune rx to 9996.000 kHz , or 9.996000 MHz
[13:27] <R6mco> ok, when you listen to the carrier, you hear 'dots' ?
[13:27] <Oddstr13> it's worth noting that my antenna isn't even remotely suited for these frequencies
[13:27] <R6mco> doesn't matter, that's of later issue.. RWM is now transmitting dots
[13:27] <Oddstr13> hang on, let me turn back on audio
[13:28] <Vaizki> there should be 100ms blips every second
[13:28] <Vaizki> and a 500ms blip when minute changes
[13:28] <R6mco> something like that indeed
[13:28] <Oddstr13> nope, that is a solid signal
[13:28] <R6mco> hmm
[13:28] <Oddstr13> oh, there it is
[13:29] <R6mco> make the frequency span smaller
[13:29] <AndyEsser> is that time signal worldwide?
[13:29] <R6mco> 'stretch out the spectrum'
[13:29] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_14-29-09.png
[13:29] <R6mco> AndyEsser: RWM is quite strong, there are other time signals, see wikipedia
[13:29] <gonzo_> they prob want to avoid clashing with the us time signal on 10MHz
[13:29] <R6mco> Oddstr13: stretch out the spectrum , thus a smaller freq span
[13:30] <Vaizki> my closesti time signal is a 25MHz one from about 4km away, Finnish research institute standards department
[13:30] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_14-30-29.png
[13:30] <R6mco> Oddstr13: perfect
[13:31] <Vaizki> looks spot on
[13:31] <R6mco> nou determine the freq of that signal, i.e. the freq your receiver thinks it is
[13:31] <Oddstr13> I have in fact tuned it before :P
[13:31] <Oddstr13> -8 ppm
[13:31] <R6mco> not ppm, first the frequency
[13:31] <Oddstr13> my rtl-sdr is something like +38 ppm
[13:32] <R6mco> (we take the simple method... because you want to look near 10 MHz to the balloons)
[13:33] <Oddstr13> I have adjusted the ppm in the past, in relation to the fm broadcast band
[13:33] <R6mco> yep, that is not good enough
[13:33] <Oddstr13> are you saying I should use the shift option in SDR# instead?
[13:33] <R6mco> therefore I ask for the frequency you now determine of the time signal
[13:34] <R6mco> and make the frequency span larger , whole display 5 or 10 kHz or so
[13:34] <Oddstr13> should I reset ppm then?
[13:34] <R6mco> do nothing , just what I ask you to ; -)
[13:35] <Oddstr13> should probably turn down sample rate then
[13:35] <Vaizki> I think you want the sampled span to be smaller and increase resolution of FFT so see more precisely where the peak is?
[13:35] <R6mco> yep
[13:35] <Vaizki> just trying to interpret here :)
[13:35] <R6mco> it has to be around 1 Hz precise (that's perfect)
[13:36] <R6mco> RTL is not vy stable, but when you've good calibrtion, you can live with it
[13:36] <Vaizki> he has hackrf
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[13:36] <R6mco> (btw time signal now has a carrier)
[13:37] <R6mco> <- listens to it now
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[13:38] <Oddstr13> not quite sure what is what anymore
[13:38] <R6mco> carrier gone now
[13:38] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_14-38-18.png
[13:38] <R6mco> ok.. red line is your 'tuning freq' ?
[13:39] <R6mco> RWM now transmitted in morse
[13:39] <Oddstr13> far from, it's the noise more or less exactly at 10k
[13:40] <R6mco> ok .. the red line is not in the middle of RWM
[13:40] <R6mco> can you determine the frequency of the peak with an accuracy of 1 Hz ?
[13:41] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_14-40-54.png
[13:41] <Oddstr13> I can hear the pulses
[13:41] <R6mco> ok
[13:41] <Oddstr13> I don't get better resolution that this tho
[13:41] <R6mco> when you can hear the pulse and you are tuned to '9996.000' than this is NOT good
[13:41] <Oddstr13> I am within 100Hz atleast
[13:41] <Oddstr13> oh, I switched to CW mode
[13:42] <R6mco> do NOT switch to CW
[13:42] <R6mco> stay on USB
[13:42] <Oddstr13> currently with a 100Hz filter around center frequency
[13:42] <R6mco> no filters
[13:42] <R6mco> you need zero beat frequency when you cant determine the freq of the RWM peak
[13:43] <R6mco> use normal USB (i.e. 3 kHz BW or so)
[13:44] <Oddstr13> I don't get a much better waterfall than this
[13:44] <R6mco> ok
[13:44] <R6mco> we need to redefine starting position
[13:45] <R6mco> because too many variables changed
[13:45] <R6mco> and we are 1000 km apart & can't see each other, nor I see your display ; -)
[13:46] <Oddstr13> how precise does the tuning need to be?
[13:46] <R6mco> so please (if you want calibration, ofc) do exactly as I advise
[13:46] <R6mco> deal?
[13:46] <Oddstr13> sure
[13:46] <R6mco> ok
[13:46] <R6mco> <- not slave mode anymore, now Master ;;; -)
[13:47] <R6mco> what is 'the frequency' you typed in in SDR# ?
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[13:47] <Oddstr13> I am offset tuning, so to say
[13:47] <Vaizki> I don't get how you can use sdr# to get the frequency down to a 1Hz.. :)
[13:47] <R6mco> argh..
[13:48] <R6mco> ok, offset tuning ... *think*
[13:48] <R6mco> another approach :
[13:48] <R6mco> tune to 9996.000 kHz
[13:49] <Oddstr13> zoomed out view: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_14-48-45.png
[13:49] <R6mco> so 'type' 9996.000 kHz somewhere in your SDR program
[13:49] <Oddstr13> solid red line in the middle is my actual radio frequency
[13:49] <Vaizki> no it's your virtual VFO frequency
[13:49] <R6mco> red line around 12 MHz ? )
[13:50] <Oddstr13> yea
[13:50] <R6mco> Vaizki: indeed, that's the point I want to make)
[13:50] <R6mco> ok
[13:50] <Oddstr13> if you want me to put that line on top of the time signal, I won't see said time signal at all
[13:50] <Vaizki> right, zero peak hides it
[13:50] <R6mco> Oddstr13: understood
[13:51] <R6mco> you now listen in LSB by the way
[13:51] <Vaizki> or central spur or whatever you call it
[13:51] <R6mco> your 0 is above 9996 kHz
[13:51] <R6mco> anyway
[13:51] <Oddstr13> nope, still USB
[13:52] <Oddstr13> what I'm actually listening to dosn't have anything to do with that center frequency
[13:52] <R6mco> (yeah... USB, but I/Q are reversed so that you think you listen in USB) ; -) , but never mind
[13:52] <R6mco> ok, decrease the span
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[13:52] <R6mco> so that 9996 kHz is in the center of your waterfall
[13:53] <R6mco> and your span is as low as possible (preferably a few 100 Hz or so)
[13:53] <Oddstr13> I don't get better resolution from that in SDR#
[13:54] <R6mco> ok, said in another way ... are you able to ascertain the frequency of the time signal within a resolution of 1 Hz (or ... somewhat worse .. 10 Hz ) ?
[13:55] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_14-55-20.png
[13:55] <R6mco> in other words, you not knowing that the time signal is at exactly 9996.000 kHz and you tune in to it, what frequency do you think it is?
[13:55] <Oddstr13> tuned 1k below, that's what it looks like in dl-fldigi
[13:56] <R6mco> yeah.. that is a method .. not accurate enough.. but at least we're somewhere : -)
[13:56] <R6mco> ok .. you determine RWM freq as 9995.96(0) kHz
[13:56] <R6mco> this is 40 Hz too low
[13:57] <R6mco> 40 +/- 10 Hz , let's use 40 Hz
[13:57] <Oddstr13> any way to speed up the waterfall of wsjt-x?
[13:57] <R6mco> Oddstr13: please do not other things, we'll come to that
[13:57] <R6mco> startup wstx 1.60 devel
[13:58] <Oddstr13> the modified version?
[13:58] <R6mco> no
[13:58] <R6mco> I made a mistake
[13:58] <R6mco> wsjtx 1.60 release
[13:58] <Oddstr13> have it open
[13:59] <R6mco> thus the official version of K1JT
[13:59] <R6mco> ok
[13:59] <R6mco> go to File -> settings
[13:59] <R6mco> in General you type ODDSTR als call
[14:00] <R6mco> in QTH locator your Maidenhead locator, 6 digits
[14:00] <Oddstr13> allready did that, except I just filled in a 000000 for the callsign
[14:00] <R6mco> type in ODDSTR
[14:01] <Oddstr13> it is done
[14:01] <R6mco> (you are not the only SWL , there are more on wsprnet)
[14:01] <R6mco> ok
[14:01] <R6mco> in Audio
[14:01] <R6mco> you gave in the right sound channel I presume ?
[14:01] <Oddstr13> I just fixed that, for got to earlier
[14:01] <R6mco> ok
[14:02] <Oddstr13> was wondering why I didn't see the time signal there :P
[14:02] <R6mco> the receiver is still on 9995 kHz ?
[14:02] <Oddstr13> yes
[14:02] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_15-02-18.png
[14:02] <R6mco> ok.. you see you're around 40 Hz too low in the waterfall
[14:03] <R6mco> go to frequencies tab
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[14:04] <Oddstr13> yes?
[14:04] <R6mco> ok.. on the right you see 'intercept'
[14:04] <R6mco> it is now 0.00 Hz
[14:04] <Oddstr13> indeed
[14:04] <R6mco> ok..
[14:04] <R6mco> let me think
[14:04] <R6mco> type -40.00
[14:04] <R6mco> press OK
[14:05] <R6mco> and see in the waterfall if the peak is at 1000 Hz
[14:05] <R6mco> of it is lower than the first, remove the '-' from 40
[14:05] <Oddstr13> peak didn't move
[14:05] <R6mco> hmm
[14:06] <R6mco> ok
[14:06] <Vaizki> I tried SDR Console V2 to check RWM.. this is the best I can do.. tuned to 9995.500 and looking at audio spectrum on USB
[14:06] <Vaizki> http://i.imgur.com/SA0IecG.jpg
[14:06] <Oddstr13> also, it's more like 7-8Hz off
[14:06] <Vaizki> seems to be spot on 500Hz but no way to tell for sure in SDR Console
[14:06] <R6mco> ok .. fair enough ... lets assume that you're reasonably good on frequency
[14:06] <R6mco> (can be tweaked later)
[14:07] <R6mco> (also read the WSPR manual)
[14:07] <R6mco> (later ... ;-)
[14:07] <R6mco> ok
[14:07] <R6mco> press OK to save settings and clode
[14:07] <R6mco> close
[14:07] <R6mco> (settings window)
[14:08] <Vaizki> R6mco, to check your own gear frequency, you use a spectrum analyzer on the IF?
[14:08] <R6mco> Vaizki: no, I use a GPS locked oscillator and a very precise receiver
[14:09] <Vaizki> yea I have a GPSDO as well.. so you use the GPSDO as an ext ref?
[14:10] <Oddstr13> R6mco: what next?
[14:10] <R6mco> ok..
[14:10] <R6mco> Oddstr13: tune your RX to 10.138700 MHz
[14:11] <Oddstr13> so, mode WSPR-2, 30m
[14:11] <R6mco> yep
[14:11] <R6mco> select 30m
[14:11] <R6mco> in wide graph
[14:11] <R6mco> 4 bins/pixel
[14:11] <R6mco> start 1200 Hz
[14:11] <R6mco> sorry 1 bin/pixel
[14:11] <R6mco> 1 bin/pixel
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[14:12] <R6mco> you should now see an orange and green line between 1400 - 1600 Hz
[14:12] <Oddstr13> indeed
[14:13] <R6mco> ok
[14:13] <R6mco> now you are receiving
[14:13] <R6mco> between 10.140100 and 10.140300 MHz
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[14:13] <R6mco> 10.140100 = 1400 + 10.138700 , and 10.140300 = 1600 + 10.138700
[14:14] <R6mco> second
[14:14] <R6mco> you need accurate timing
[14:14] <R6mco> Oddstr13: you run windows?
[14:15] <Oddstr13> booted linux yesterday, that syncs the clock via NTP
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[14:15] <Oddstr13> according to the website klokka.no, I'm within the second or so
[14:15] <R6mco> on what system you run now ?
[14:15] <Oddstr13> currently running windows
[14:15] <R6mco> ok
[14:15] <R6mco> download http://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/rsNTP/rsNTP.zip
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[14:16] <R6mco> (this is safe file)
[14:16] <Oddstr13> can't have windows setting the time, as that screws up with timezones
[14:16] <R6mco> (like I said.. do as I said ; -)
[14:17] <Oddstr13> exactly how precise does my computer clock have to be?
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[14:18] <R6mco> within a second
[14:18] <R6mco> and default time settings are too wobbly
[14:18] <R6mco> in WIndows
[14:18] <R6mco> 'sync with NTP server' in time window is not good enough
[14:18] <Oddstr13> what exactly does that program do?
[14:18] <Vaizki> within a second should be piece of cake
[14:18] <R6mco> it's an NTP client
[14:18] <Vaizki> Oddstr13, http://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/rsNTP/rsNTP.htm
[14:18] <Vaizki> there is an actual web page too ;)
[14:19] <R6mco> a very simple NTP client, which works perfectly (and has a trick)
[14:19] <R6mco> YHF is the guru concerning weak signals
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[14:20] <Oddstr13> well, I can't have that program adjusting my system clock at all
[14:20] <R6mco> Oddstr: read the URL Vaizki gave, and do accordingly
[14:20] <R6mco> yes, you can
[14:20] <Oddstr13> if it only displayed the error, it would be fine
[14:20] <R6mco> if I can do it, you can do it
[14:20] <Oddstr13> my hardware "RTC" is running UTC time
[14:20] <Oddstr13> and windows is set up to recognize this fact
[14:20] <Vaizki> everyone's is
[14:20] <R6mco> undersood
[14:20] <Vaizki> or they are crazy
[14:21] <Oddstr13> Vaizki: if you are running widnows, you most probably arn't
[14:21] <R6mco> Oddstr13: 1000's of people run rsNTP on Win
[14:21] <R6mco> so PLEASE .. if you want this to work properly ?
[14:22] <Oddstr13> R6mco: there is a bug in windows 7, which causes the hardware time to be set to local time, rather than UTC as it is supposed to
[14:22] <Oddstr13> if time is adjusted by windows
[14:22] <Oddstr13> it will then be 1h off on next boot
[14:22] <R6mco> I give up
[14:23] <R6mco> apperantly you have a very special version of windows ... not able to WSPR, I think that's the case
[14:24] <Oddstr13> fine, I'll run the goddamn thing, but I blame you if my system time is off by 1h next time I boot >,<
[14:24] <R6mco> wait
[14:24] <Vaizki> :)
[14:24] <Vaizki> :D
[14:24] <R6mco> first switch off internet timing
[14:25] <R6mco> the tab where it is synced to an internet NTP server
[14:25] <Oddstr13> in windows time settings?
[14:25] <R6mco> yep
[14:25] <R6mco> rsNTP handles the timing
[14:25] <Vaizki> and yes Oddstr13 it seems you are right, windows hates utc rtc.. didn't know that. I mostly use a Mac..
[14:25] <Oddstr13> allready turned off, due to bug I just refered to
[14:25] <R6mco> ok
[14:25] <R6mco> run rsNTP
[14:25] <R6mco> also see your pm)
[14:26] <R6mco> then the trick (this is why YHF wrote the program for Windows)
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[14:27] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_15-27-34.png
[14:27] <R6mco> perfect
[14:27] <R6mco> check 'sync periodically'
[14:28] <R6mco> and ... in Add(s) enter '1'
[14:28] <Oddstr13> I was -0.86 ish away, and it apparently was not able to set the clock
[14:28] <R6mco> and press synchronize
[14:28] <Oddstr13> probably due to me not running it as administrator
[14:28] <R6mco> yep
[14:28] <R6mco> run as admin (see YHF webpage)
[14:30] <Oddstr13> holy shit, that is a strong signal
[14:30] <R6mco> first things first
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[14:30] <R6mco> we correct that
[14:30] <R6mco> do you run rsntp now and are able to time sync ?
[14:31] <Vaizki> this means I have to make a RasPi time server for my home..
[14:31] <Oddstr13> heh, apparently I accidentaly hit the tx in JT65-hf
[14:31] <R6mco> do you run rsntp now and are able to time sync ?
[14:31] <R6mco> (pse not too fast, you are impatient, I know, otherwise we get lost in the procedure)
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[14:32] <Oddstr13> seriosly tho, isn't -0.87s good enough?
[14:32] <R6mco> no
[14:32] <R6mco> you miss traces then
[14:32] <Vaizki> no, wspr is weird :)
[14:33] <R6mco> wspr is vy weak signal mode , therefore precision is needed , but it's possible
[14:33] <R6mco> do you run rsntp now and are able to time sync ? <-- yes or no ?
[14:33] <Oddstr13> yes.
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[14:33] <Oddstr13> add one second you said?
[14:33] <R6mco> ok, did you add 1 sec ?
[14:33] <R6mco> yes, add 1 second
[14:34] <R6mco> after that, press synchronize
[14:34] <Oddstr13> and what is the point in the 1s offset, if I may ask?
[14:34] <Vaizki> ha.. raspbian has pps-gpio module now standard.
[14:34] <R6mco> tell you later
[14:34] <R6mco> you can see that yourself later , I explain
[14:34] <R6mco> (later ; -)
[14:35] <Oddstr13> heh, opening the window isn't the smartest thing I've done today.
[14:36] <R6mco> did you add 1 sec and press synchronize? <-- yes or no
[14:36] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_15-36-13.png
[14:36] <R6mco> perfect
[14:36] <R6mco> restart wsjtx
[14:37] <R6mco> and keep rsntp running
[14:37] <R6mco> if everything went well, wsjtx now has the right time
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[14:38] <Oddstr13> why WSJT-X dosn't grab time from NTP itself, if precission is so important, I don't understand.
[14:39] <R6mco> don't ask me
[14:39] <R6mco> this is windows
[14:39] <R6mco> you restart wsjtx ?
[14:39] <Oddstr13> yes.
[14:40] <R6mco> ok
[14:40] <R6mco> in the main window there is an audio slider on the left
[14:40] <R6mco> below 10.138700
[14:40] <Oddstr13> turn it down to about 35dB?
[14:41] <R6mco> you also see an orange 'volume' meter
[14:41] <R6mco> turn this down to around 30 - 35 dB yes
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[14:42] <R6mco> and be sure you selected WSPR-2 as 'mode' , see 'mode' tab
[14:42] <Oddstr13> allready did. also re-set the frequency
[14:42] <R6mco> ?
[14:42] <R6mco> choose '30m'
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[14:42] <Oddstr13> it lost mode and band when I restarted it
[14:42] <R6mco> ah
[14:42] <R6mco> ok
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[14:43] <R6mco> set TX% to 0
[14:43] <R6mco> and lower right slider to the bottom
[14:44] <R6mco> [15:42] <Oddstr13> it lost mode and band when I restarted it <-- check if your -40 is still in the settings menu !
[14:45] <Oddstr13> it is
[14:45] <R6mco> ok
[14:45] <Oddstr13> so is callsign and locator
[14:45] <R6mco> rgr
[14:45] <R6mco> can you see wspr traces between 1400 and 1600 Hz in the waterfall ?
[14:45] <Oddstr13> nope
[14:46] <Oddstr13> do see some weak JT65 a bit further up tho
[14:46] <R6mco> ok
[14:46] <R6mco> but no wspr traces ?
[14:46] <R6mco> the waterfall is all blue ?
[14:46] <Oddstr13> nope, have some noise
[14:47] <R6mco> JT65 traces are around 1200 - 1250 Hz I presume, to the far left ?
[14:47] <Oddstr13> ethernet I would guess
[14:47] <R6mco> do you have audio ?
[14:48] <Oddstr13> I am listening to the noise, yes
[14:48] <R6mco> i.e. you hear noise ?
[14:48] <R6mco> ok ..
[14:48] <R6mco> what antenna you have ?
[14:48] <Oddstr13> HackRF standard antenna, as stated earlier.
[14:48] <Oddstr13> aka a 85cm telescopic whip
[14:49] <R6mco> http://i.imgur.com/f5vuGH7.jpg
[14:49] <R6mco> this is what I receive
[14:50] <Oddstr13> nothing on my rx
[14:50] <R6mco> http://i.imgur.com/cL17tvq.jpg
[14:50] <R6mco> ok ... do you have a piece of wire of around 6m long ?
[14:51] <Oddstr13> that could probably be arranged
[14:51] <Oddstr13> but I don't have any connectors suitable for putting on the end
[14:51] <R6mco> connect 6m of wire to the telescope and let it run out of the window
[14:52] <R6mco> just wind it around the end
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[14:53] <Oddstr13> any preference on wire thickness?
[14:53] <R6mco> nah
[14:53] <R6mco> that's for later
[14:53] <R6mco> first important is to make an antenna suitable for the 10 MHz wavelength
[14:53] <R6mco> (i.e. 30m , so 6.85 m is around 1/4 wl)
[14:55] <R6mco> main goal for now is: you receive WSPR traces (otherwise you're not able to rx PS-58 at all )
[15:01] <R6mco> and ... ?
[15:03] <Oddstr13> can't say I see much of a difference
[15:03] <R6mco> you experience not more noise ?
[15:04] <Oddstr13> I do see some rtty further down in the band
[15:05] <R6mco> ok, we take the more easy approach then
[15:05] <R6mco> select JT-65
[15:06] <R6mco> change frequency on your receiver to 10.138000 MHz
[15:06] <R6mco> thus 700 Hz lower
[15:07] <R6mco> chose 3 or 4 bin/pixel and start freq = 200 Hz in the waterfall
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[15:09] <Oddstr13> SP9UXB RU3T LO16
[15:10] <R6mco> ok
[15:11] <R6mco> at 1508z
[15:11] <Oddstr13> indeed
[15:11] <R6mco> 1679 Hz ?
[15:11] <Oddstr13> 1659 according to WSJT-X
[15:12] <R6mco> ok .. then you are 20 Hz too high in frequency with your receiver, but never mind
[15:12] <R6mco> what was the SNR value of that spot ?
[15:12] <Oddstr13> dB?
[15:12] <Oddstr13> -18
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[15:13] <R6mco> oeps ...
[15:13] <R6mco> http://i.imgur.com/q12Zs3u.jpg <-- this is my spot
[15:13] <R6mco> -3 dB
[15:15] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_16-14-53.png
[15:15] <Oddstr13> noise is the name of the game! :P
[15:16] <Oddstr13> still seeing that rtty at 10.100 MHz, but nothing much other than that
[15:20] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_16-20-09.png the bigger picture if you like
[15:22] <gonzo_> noise picked up at the antenna is the prob at HF. But generally the signals are strong that noise inside the RX is not an issue. But V/UHF the internal noise starts to affect the SRN
[15:22] <gonzo_> SNR
[15:22] <R6mco> yeah that rtty signal is the Deutsche Wetterdienst
[15:22] <Oddstr13> yea, kinda figured
[15:22] <R6mco> Oddstr13: indeed, noise reduction and SNR improvement is indeed the name of the game
[15:23] <Oddstr13> I allways tend to use forewer to find the right mode to decode that one
[15:23] <AndyEsser> Python people - is it possible to use ipython notebook to constantly redraw a plot, and change values? (in like a textbox)
[15:23] <R6mco> Oddstr13: so now your challenge is : reduce noise
[15:24] <R6mco> and try to decode wspr traces
[15:24] <R6mco> otherwise no PS-58
[15:24] <Oddstr13> step one: move the HackRF
[15:24] <Oddstr13> anyways, how is propagation at 30m?
[15:25] <R6mco> 30m is in fact an ideal band for world wide propagation
[15:25] <gonzo_> because noise and signals are big on HF, antenmna effciciency is not that important. But redicing the picked up noise is. On higher freqs though, the signals are weaker, so efficiency is important. But gain and directionality are easier to get. Also electriccal noise tends to be lower at higher freqs
[15:25] <R6mco> gonzo_: indeed, that's the issue/case
[15:25] <Oddstr13> in relation to time of day I mean
[15:25] <Oddstr13> cause it is starting to get dark here now
[15:25] <R6mco> Oddstr13: I could rx PS-57 and PS-58 during the days and grey line
[15:26] <R6mco> sunrise and sunset are good DX times, google on grey line
[15:26] <R6mco> (of gray line, not the busses ;-)
[15:26] <Oddstr13> I know from before that CB drops out at (or before) this time
[15:26] <R6mco> ok, resume:
[15:26] <R6mco> 1. you are on time
[15:27] <R6mco> 2. freq of receiver is fine enough
[15:27] <R6mco> 3. you're able to decode JT65 traces with your setup
[15:27] <R6mco> to do:
[15:27] <R6mco> 1. reduce noise / make better antenna
[15:27] <Oddstr13> I knew I was able to decode JT65 :P
[15:27] <R6mco> 2. try to decode WSPR traces
[15:29] <R6mco> when you decode wspr traces, check 'upload spots'
[15:29] <R6mco> and check if your spots are reported on wsprnet.org database
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[15:36] <Oddstr13> let's see
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[15:37] <Oddstr13> wspr was 700 Hz higher?
[15:37] <R6mco> yep
[15:37] <R6mco> 10.1387
[15:37] <R6mco> you need this freq for JT9 also, wspr is between 1400 - 1600 Hz then
[15:38] <Oddstr13> that would put it just above 2100 now then
[15:38] <R6mco> and PS-58 is at 1700 Hz offset with JT9
[15:38] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-21_16-38-21.png
[15:39] <R6mco> 10138700 + 1700 Hz = actual JT9 freq of PS-58
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[15:39] <R6mco> you have to change the freq of your receiver too, otherwise the audio freqs do not match and you report wrong frequencies
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[15:40] <R6mco> thus set your RX to 10.138700 MHz in USB (this is called the 'dial frequency')
[15:41] <Oddstr13> why am I not allowed to manualy input frequency in WSJT-X? :(
[15:41] <R6mco> because this is standardised
[15:41] <R6mco> otherwise people report wrong frequencies
[15:41] <R6mco> there is a so called band plan
[15:42] <R6mco> these weaksignal modes was very narrow band, therefore frequency precision (and timing) is so important
[15:43] <R6mco> was = are*
[15:43] <R6mco> if you are 100 Hz off... you may receive nothing
[15:43] <R6mco> (or better... decode nothing)
[15:44] <Oddstr13> dosn't matter, I am easily able to receive both WSPR and JT65 within the same bandwith
[15:44] <Oddstr13> I should be able to tell WSJT-X that my dial frequency is 700Hz lower than the standard
[15:45] <R6mco> yes ... and no ...
[15:45] <Oddstr13> anyways; 1542 -20 1.3 10.140179 1 G7EVW IO94 37 1109
[15:45] <R6mco> the IIR filters in the software for WSPR have been optimised for 1400 - 1600 Hz
[15:45] <R6mco> ok ..
[15:45] <R6mco> you had a succesfull decode, did you check 'upload spots' ?
[15:46] <Oddstr13> I just did now
[15:46] <R6mco> grr... this wsprnet.org database has continuous hiccups
[15:47] <R6mco> ok, when you just did, that spot is not uploaded, wait for another one
[15:47] <Oddstr13> fully aware
[15:47] <Oddstr13> I've gotten two more in the meanwhile
[15:47] <Oddstr13> still getting JT65 with JT65-HF
[15:48] <R6mco> yeah.. of course
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[15:59] <R6mco> did you decode GM4SFW ?
[16:00] <Oddstr13> dosn't look like it
[16:00] <R6mco> I can't see spots of you on wsprnet.org Oddstr13
[16:02] <R6mco> GM4SFW is often strong and on .280 , thus 1580 Hz <- he has GPS locked wspr TX
[16:03] <R6mco> good reference
[16:08] <R6mco> ok, I am off, have an appointment at 1800 hrs here
[16:11] <Oddstr13> the wsprnet website is painfully slow at best
[16:11] <fsphil> tis
[16:12] <Oddstr13> at best... "The connection has timed out"
[16:12] <fsphil> the search feature can be very slow too
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[16:12] <Oddstr13> are they getting DDoS'd, or is the server running on a Pi?
[16:13] <fsphil> inefficient database backend possibly
[16:13] <R6mco> too much traffic and old backend indeed
[16:13] <R6mco> it's a nuisance
[16:14] <Oddstr13> also, search queries depend on post, so impossible to link the results
[16:14] <Oddstr13> anyways; http://wsprnet.org/olddb?mode=html&band=all&limit=50&findcall=&findreporter=ODDSTR13&sort=date
[16:14] <Oddstr13> /IF/ it loads
[16:15] <R6mco> advise: narrow your ID down to 6 digits
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[16:15] <Oddstr13> it's not a proper callsign in the first place
[16:15] <R6mco> for wspr doesn't matter, you are a reporter
[16:15] <R6mco> you are not txing
[16:16] <R6mco> but keep it a little in shape with the rest, so ODDSTR would be fine
[16:18] <R6mco> ok, you succesfully managed to upload spots
[16:18] <R6mco> PA3MET is a friend of mine BTW, he lives 15km more south than me
[16:19] <R6mco> ok, and I see you live very in the north of .no
[16:19] <Oddstr13> not really
[16:19] <R6mco> must be a quiet (low noise) place anyway, far better than my location
[16:20] <Oddstr13> not even halfway to the north of norway :P
[16:20] <R6mco> ah yeah.. I see, .no extends further ; -)
[16:20] <R6mco> jaja, I see, I was too quick
[16:20] <Oddstr13> but, yea, most of the noise is local from my computer network
[16:20] <R6mco> very important to reduce that
[16:21] <Oddstr13> probably not gona happend anytime soon
[16:21] <Oddstr13> I'd have to redo all the ethernet wiring
[16:23] <Laurenceb> UBSEDS13 seems to have excessive geofencing
[16:24] <craag> excessive?
[16:24] <Laurenceb> well it should have turned on over the adriatic
[16:24] <eroomde> the fence is too high
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[16:37] <richardeoin> Laurenceb: yeah, the whole of the adratic is within the no aprs geofence
[16:38] <Laurenceb> looks like good battery life, hardly any voltage drop overnight
[16:38] <Laurenceb> should it handle APRS over Turkey and Russia?
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[16:43] <richardeoin> yep, Greece also
[16:43] <richardeoin> here's the map fyi https://raw.githubusercontent.com/bristol-seds/bristol-seds.github.io/master/assets/flights/13/geofences/ubseds13_no_aprs_geofence.jpg
[16:43] <Laurenceb> cool, this should be fun
[16:43] <richardeoin> and for the whole world https://raw.githubusercontent.com/bristol-seds/bristol-seds.github.io/master/assets/flights/13/geofences/ubseds13_no_aprs_world_miller_cylindrical.jpg
[16:43] <Laurenceb> heh way more fencing than Leo used
[16:43] <Laurenceb> did you draw it by hand?
[16:44] <Laurenceb> I was wondering about using inkscape, it has good vector fitting tools
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[16:45] <Laurenceb> or there is some gnuplot demo world map somewhere...
[16:45] <richardeoin> For europe I'm going of the coutries Upu has in this https://github.com/Upuaut/APRS_Projects/blob/master/Pico92/Pico92.ino#L263
[16:45] <Laurenceb> ah
[16:45] <Laurenceb> http://www.gnuplotting.org/data/world_110m.txt
[16:46] <Laurenceb> just landmasses :-/
[16:46] <richardeoin> no, I found a file like 'coutries_world.kml' online and preocessed it in a bunch of ipython notebooks
[16:46] <Laurenceb> oh cool
[16:46] <richardeoin> *processed
[16:46] <Laurenceb> got it https://github.com/lakshmanok/asgbook/blob/master/data/countries/countries_world.kml
[16:48] <richardeoin> not quite that one, but something similar
[16:49] <richardeoin> err this one http://www.rjruss.info/2010/12/free-countries-of-world-in-polygon-kml.html
[16:52] <richardeoin> it's mostly here https://github.com/bristol-seds/pico-tracker/blob/master/sim/geofence/geofence.ipynb
[16:54] <richardeoin> there's some functions that attempt to transform it onto an equal area grid using pyproj, but I don't think it quite works
[16:55] <AndyEsser> Woo - as of Monday, will have a company car - that'll make chases a bit easier :)
[16:55] <richardeoin> hence being a bit overzealous with the 25km of terratorial waters and cutting off the whole adratic
[16:56] <richardeoin> Nice AndyEsser, cars definietly make real balloons easier
[16:57] <richardeoin> one of the reasons us university students do picos launches
[16:57] <Laurenceb> thats quite impressive work
[16:57] <Laurenceb> so you project out along the normals?
[16:57] <richardeoin> avoids having to organise transport
[16:57] <AndyEsser> richardeoin: heh
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[16:57] <richardeoin> Laurenceb: About the notebook?
[16:57] <Laurenceb> yeah, to get the 25km
[16:58] <richardeoin> I use a library called pyclipper for that
[16:58] <richardeoin> cell [128] def prepare_shifted_grids(grids, isocode):
[16:59] <richardeoin> http://www.angusj.com/delphi/clipper.php
[17:00] <eroomde> cusf did rely on my car more or less exclusively for many years
[17:00] <eroomde> would be stuffed without
[17:00] <Laurenceb> ah so you cheated
[17:01] <richardeoin> yep Laurenceb :D
[17:01] <Laurenceb> I was hoping for uber pro vector fun :D
[17:03] <richardeoin> no, sorry
[17:07] <richardeoin> there's a geofence on the uhf transmissions too https://raw.githubusercontent.com/bristol-seds/bristol-seds.github.io/master/assets/flights/13/geofences/ubseds13_uhf_geofence_world_millar_cylindrical.jpg
[17:07] <richardeoin> should save a bit of power
[17:08] <richardeoin> I'll comment about that on the mailing list tonight if it re-appears in Greece
[17:08] <adamgreig> eroomde: we got discounted zipcar for a while after you left :p
[17:08] <eroomde> i'm willing to bed there was also considerably less driving!
[17:08] <eroomde> bet*
[17:09] <Laurenceb> <richardeoin> why did you APRS fence the USA?
[17:10] <richardeoin> adamgreig pointed out some legalities a few days ago
[17:10] <richardeoin> 16th iirc
[17:10] <Laurenceb> naughty Leo :P
[17:10] <Laurenceb> a question of your license?
[17:10] <eroomde> remembering that cusf predates zipcar (in the uk), the iphone, the arduino...
[17:11] <eroomde> which is an amsuing thought
[17:11] <richardeoin> no, 14th http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs_highlighted/highaltitude.log.20160114.html
[17:12] <richardeoin> yes, it's to do with the non-cept-signatory fcc imposing the terms of your own license as well as local rules
[17:13] <richardeoin> https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2013-title47-vol5/xml/CFR-2013-title47-vol5-sec97-107.xml 97.107 b(2)
[17:14] <Laurenceb> blerg legalise
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[17:55] <Lunar_Lander> evening
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[18:13] <adamgreig> richardeoin: i wonder if you can use my licence
[18:13] <adamgreig> eroomde: yes somewhat! though actually I bet two return drives from SF to BRD added to up a lot of total mileage
[18:13] <adamgreig> eroomde: ten years! we're going to have a party to celebrate I think
[18:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K2JJI-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K2JJI-11
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[18:25] <Lunar_Lander> what's your experience with press releases?
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[19:03] <eroomde> adamgreig: a grand idea!
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[19:27] <AndyEsser> If there aren't lots of party balloons at UKHAS party I'll be disappointed
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> hi AndyEsser
[19:31] <eroomde> AndyEsser: 10 years of cusf
[19:31] <eroomde> ukhas is already 10
[19:31] <eroomde> well actually no
[19:31] <eroomde> it's younger than cusf
[19:32] <eroomde> uk ballooning is 10 tho
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> very nice
[19:42] <fsphil> now that I think about it. I don't believe there has ever been a balloon at ukhas-conf
[19:42] <adamgreig> hmmm
[19:42] <adamgreig> i feel like there were some apexhab party balloons at one once
[19:43] <adamgreig> but might be misremembering
[19:49] <richardeoin> adamgreig: if I 'transfer ownership' of the payload while it's over the US, then I think that makes sense
[19:50] <richardeoin> it's way off getting to the US for now though
[19:50] <adamgreig> mm
[19:50] <adamgreig> the US law is quite weird
[19:50] <adamgreig> it used to be the case that only your station was licensed to a callsign
[19:50] <adamgreig> so e.g. if I went to my friend's house I'd be operating as their callsign even though it was me on-air
[19:50] <adamgreig> but I'd have to have a licence myself to be a control operator, and could only operate on the bands and powers of my own licence
[19:50] <adamgreig> that's changed now though
[19:51] <adamgreig> and the rules around automatic unattended telemetry stations are all a bit more... loose?
[19:51] <adamgreig> it's quite permissive about telemetry
[19:51] <richardeoin> that's good for us
[19:51] <adamgreig> even waives the "no encoding meant to render the message unintelligable" bit
[19:51] <adamgreig> sort-of
[19:52] <adamgreig> "Telemetry transmitted by an amateur station on or within 50 km of the Earth's surface is not considered to be codes or ciphers intended to obscure the meaning of communications."
[19:55] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03M0SBU-11 after 0312 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0SBU-11
[19:55] <richardeoin> heh - I'd say that was meant to clarify that telemetry isn't a code
[19:55] <adamgreig> indeed
[19:55] <richardeoin> not allow you to encode telemetry
[19:55] <richardeoin> and yay it's still alive
[19:56] <richardeoin> slightly early - I was expecting 9pm or so
[19:56] <richardeoin> .whereis M0SBU-11
[19:56] <SpacenearUS> 03richardeoin: 03M0SBU-11 is over 03Western Macedonia, Greece 10(40.83816,21.02768) at 0310076 meters
[19:56] <adamgreig> nice
[19:58] <Laurenceb> is there baro data in the weird comment?
[19:58] <Laurenceb> 211052 pascals? (lol)
[20:01] <richardeoin> nope
[20:01] <richardeoin> that's backlog
[20:01] <Laurenceb> oh nice feature
[20:01] <richardeoin> from 1052 this morning :)
[20:01] <Laurenceb> I'm wondering if the baro sensor cracked due to low temperatures
[20:02] <richardeoin> yeah the MS5607
[20:02] <richardeoin> I think so
[20:02] <Upu> there is a way to alias the APRS onto the normal
[20:02] <richardeoin> The internal temperature readings from it seem a bit spurious also
[20:02] <richardeoin> I wondered that too Upu
[20:03] <Laurenceb> min temperature is -40C, also it uses silicone rubber encapsulation (i've ripped one apart), and silicone glass transition temp is -50C
[20:04] <Laurenceb> iirc Leo ran a perl script on his pc to grab backlog off aprs and convert to "fake" position uploads
[20:04] <richardeoin> The MS5607 says -35 or so, but the radio was saying -50 something
[20:04] <Upu> .aprs add M0SBU-11 UBSED13
[20:04] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Added 03M0SBU-11 as 10(UBSED13) to APRS Importer
[20:04] <Upu> .aprs del M0SBU-11 UBSED13
[20:04] <Laurenceb> lol I'm behind the times
[20:05] <Upu> .aprs remove M0SBU-11 UBSED13
[20:05] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Removed 03M0SBU-11 as 10(UBSED13) from APRS Importer
[20:05] <Upu> .aprs remove M0SBU-11 UBSEDS13
[20:05] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Error: Unable to remove callsign, since it doesn't exist
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[20:05] <Upu> .aprs add M0SBU-11 UBSEDS13
[20:05] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Added 03M0SBU-11 as 10(UBSEDS13) to APRS Importer
[20:05] <richardeoin> I don't believe there's a 15 degree differential
[20:05] <Laurenceb> aprs has proper support
[20:05] <Upu> evening Lunar
[20:05] <richardeoin> Laurenceb: I don't think there's proper support for aprs backlog though
[20:05] <Laurenceb> ah
[20:06] <richardeoin> we have a python script https://github.com/bristol-seds/pico-tracker/blob/master/firmware/tools/raw_parser.py
[20:07] <richardeoin> needs to be updated for the new data formats and so on, I think someone will do it at the weekend
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[20:08] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS13 after 0319 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS13
[20:09] <Upu> super
[20:09] <Upu> sorry I didn't do that the other night
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[20:10] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03URKHAB after 0321 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=URKHAB
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[20:42] <SA6BSS-Mike> have not notced until now, ps-58 have crossed the equator
[20:44] <Vaizki> last night
[20:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> time to activate jt9 grabber :)
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[20:48] <AndyEsser> eroomde: just finished watching Particle Fever
[20:50] <AndyEsser> is MOSBU-11 and UBSEDS13 the same?
[20:51] <Upu> yes aliased
[20:51] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[20:51] <AndyEsser> richardeoin: How long did you plan UBSEDS13 to run for?
[20:52] <nick_> AndyEsser: if you're interesting in particle physics feel free to ask me questions.
[20:52] <AndyEsser> Are you theoretical or experimental?
[20:52] <AndyEsser> :P
[20:52] <nick_> Experimental
[20:52] <fsphil> he existed until you asked that question
[20:53] <eroomde> he's a vegetable gardener just trolling you
[20:53] <AndyEsser> lol
[20:53] <eroomde> did you enjoy it?
[20:53] <AndyEsser> Yea it was good
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[20:55] <AndyEsser> time to get my hardware timers sorted
[20:55] <AndyEsser> TO THE OSCILLOSCOPE!
[20:57] <richardeoin> AndyEsser: I know how much each component uses, but haven't characterised the battery at low temperatures
[20:57] <richardeoin> so I can't really say
[20:57] <richardeoin> a week maybe, or two
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[21:00] <AndyEsser> Was that the goal?
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[21:07] <richardeoin> The goal is to get as much performance as reasonably possible really
[21:07] <richardeoin> there's an eye to getting a round-the-world flight too
[21:07] <richardeoin> not planning that for this flight though
[21:08] <richardeoin> although a first custom float is a big step
[21:08] <SA6BSS-Mike> Leos fastest lap was iirc 16days
[21:08] <SA6BSS-Mike> what material in the balloon?
[21:10] <richardeoin> yeah winds are a little faster at this time of year, but them this flight is a bit lower than Leo
[21:10] <AndyEsser> richardeoin: ah cool
[21:11] <richardeoin> SA6BSS-Mike: it's a multilayer plastic, pa-evoh-pe
[21:11] <richardeoin> 50 micron thickness
[21:11] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok, have to google that :)
[21:11] <SA6BSS-Mike> oki
[21:12] <richardeoin> so it contains layers of polyamide (nylon 6 to be precise), ethylene vinyl alcohol, and polyethene
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[21:13] <richardeoin> the polyamide is tough and strong (and possible glassy at these temperatures), the evoh is a very good gas barrier, and
[21:13] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-58 after 036 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-58
[21:14] <richardeoin> the polyethene has a low enough melting power to make a good seal easily
[21:14] <SA6BSS-Mike> looks to the same as in food vaccum plastics
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[21:16] <richardeoin> SA6BSS-Mike: yes, that's what it's actually used for
[21:16] <richardeoin> in particular meat packaging I think
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[21:18] <AndyEsser> woo! hardware timer interrupts are behaving
[21:18] <SA6BSS-Mike> we have those in small sizes at work , allways looked like it could be used, and as you say I figured it would be "easy" to bond/melt together
[21:18] <AndyEsser> time to refactor all my code to use those :)
[21:18] <daveake> Cool, it's the One True Way
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[21:19] <AndyEsser> will genericise it another time
[21:19] <AndyEsser> but for now can set up timers for GPS and RTTY transmit
[21:19] <AndyEsser> rather than nasty software timers
[21:19] <AndyEsser> then to play with power saving modes :)
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[21:26] <AndyEsser> hmm, suppose I should really use hardware timers to trigger each RTTY pulse not just the gaps between messages as well
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[21:37] <eroomde> ABSOLUTELY
[21:37] <eroomde> you should
[21:38] <eroomde> getting 50-baud with hand-tuned delay loops based on number of instructions is extremel;y unrobust and just really smelly
[21:39] <eroomde> timers+interrupts is The Right Way to do it
[21:39] <AndyEsser> I was using the handy _delay_ms() function the AVR library provides :P
[21:39] <AndyEsser> not counting instruction times
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[21:40] <AndyEsser> Which I guess is just someone else has handle the instruction counting ;)
[21:40] <AndyEsser> handled*
[21:40] <eroomde> i assume the length of instructions is short relative to 20ms
[21:40] <eroomde> so you can get away with ignoring it in this applications as the errors aren;t big enough
[21:41] <eroomde> but in general, i'd not architect things in that way
[21:41] <AndyEsser> I ran a _delay_ms(500) through the scope, I'm very impressed with how accurate it is
[21:41] <AndyEsser> but wouldn't want to do it if I need proper precision
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[21:41] <eroomde> though i totally get it when spitballing and getting something up and running quickly
[21:41] <AndyEsser> the _delay_ms() and _delay_us() stuff is great and simple for prototyping
[21:41] <AndyEsser> and means not having to juggle timers around because you don't have enough
[21:41] <eroomde> yep
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[21:46] <Upu> IUBAVM
[21:46] <Upu> pingf
[21:47] <Upu> lets see a screen shot of what you can see
[21:48] <IUBAVM> what's best way to send?
[21:49] <Upu> upload screen shot to imgur
[21:49] <Upu> so sit rep me : on a Mac, its transmitting
[21:49] <Upu> what do you have running as your SDR ?
[21:50] <IUBAVM> you mean in terms of the SDR dongle that I purchased?
[21:50] <Upu> yeah what software do you have to run that
[21:50] <Upu> I'm not that good on Macs
[21:51] <IUBAVM> http://i.imgur.com/xVkZU3v.png
[21:52] <Upu> that either isn't the signal or it doesn't look right
[21:52] <Upu> Habduino ?
[21:53] <AndyEsser> mac software always looks so much nicer on the eyes
[21:53] <IUBAVM> looking for batman/cat ears, right? Yes, trying to make sure I can get signal form the habduino.
[21:54] <Upu> you got them
[21:54] <Upu> it just looks crap - Habduino ?
[21:54] <daveake> shift is wrong; cursors not aligned
[21:54] <IUBAVM> The signal does occasionally collapse into a single peak
[21:54] <Upu> ok if its Habduino it needs to be set to RTTY 50 baud 7N2
[21:54] <Upu> and the shift needs to be smaller in dl-fldigi
[21:55] <Upu> change these in OpMode -> RTTY -> Custom
[21:55] <IUBAVM> with the carrier shift at 600, right?
[21:56] <Upu> looks like less
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[21:56] <Upu> shift is the distance between those 2 wobbly lines
[21:56] <Upu> I'm going to call thats not that actual signal
[21:56] <Upu> can you zoom out in the radio software ?
[21:57] <Vaizki> gqrx is like jerking off with a cheese grater :(
[21:57] <Upu> thanks for that Vaizki :)
[21:57] <Vaizki> sorry :)
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[21:58] <Vaizki> as a Mac user I need to release now and then regarding the state of SDR software...
[21:59] <Upu> get prog to port SDRSharp to the Mac
[21:59] <IUBAVM> http://imgur.com/a/cTp9A
[22:00] <Vaizki> Sdr# is c#
[22:00] <Vaizki> No need to port!
[22:00] <Upu> Settings not correct IUBAVM
[22:00] <Upu> Needs to be RTTY 50 7N2 with a 420 ish shift
[22:00] <Upu> then we'll go work out where you signal actually is
[22:02] <IUBAVM> ok, made that change.
[22:02] <Upu> now zoom out in whatever that radio software is
[22:03] <Upu> I don't think you're zoomed in on the signal
[22:03] <IUBAVM> ok
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[22:10] <AndyEsser> heh - going through some boxes trying to find my old maths textbooks - and came across these
[22:10] <AndyEsser> http://imgur.com/cVFWDTI
[22:10] <IUBAVM> not sure what other signal to zoom in on
[22:11] <russss> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Pm8ZY0XJI
[22:14] <IUBAVM> would it help if someone sent me what the signal is supposed to look like and sound like?
[22:15] <Geoff-G8DHE_> These are a couple of signals being shown http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/2015_Flights/index.php?ind=1
[22:17] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Sounds like this http://tenbus.co.uk/icaruscapture_30secs.mp3
[22:18] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Not convinced that you weren't on the signal before but the display in the SDR program was lacking in resolution
[22:19] <Geoff-G8DHE_> The audio signal looked about right in the lower right corner.
[22:19] <IUBAVM> ok, that's really helpful. as I've definitely heard that signal before.....
[22:20] <Geoff-G8DHE_> There is normally a pnel for changing the FFT display in the SDR program, the defaults are usually quite low giving you that blocky result
[22:21] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Making the resolution to fine however takes a lot more processing power!
[22:22] <Upu> just doesn't look like the proper signal
[22:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Also the audio level to dl-fldigi was quite low, adequate but only just.
[22:29] <Upu> he's had to go pick his son up
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Pm8ZY0XJI - woo!
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> (Dragon 2 hover test)
[22:53] <Vaizki> 00:11 russss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Pm8ZY0XJI
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[00:00] --- Fri Jan 22 2016