highaltitude.log.20160120

[00:00] <SpeedEvil> err - why?
[00:00] <SpeedEvil> You mean for inspection?
[00:00] <Laurenceb_> especially as with HF the tronics are miles from the envelope
[00:00] <Laurenceb_> yes
[00:00] <Laurenceb_> drop it in the outback somewhere then see why PS-57 popped
[00:00] <SpeedEvil> In principle, I guess you could use a foiled balloon as an end-load
[00:02] <Laurenceb_> maybe ukraine rebels could help
[00:02] <Laurenceb_> just need one flying in northern hemisphere
[00:03] <SpeedEvil> I wonder what volume of gas you'd need to reliably pop the balloon
[00:04] <Laurenceb_> a few litres
[00:04] <Laurenceb_> probably too much mass for a pyro charge
[00:05] <Laurenceb_> maybe cut down the payload and the envelope will go up and pop
[00:05] <Laurenceb_> then you "just" need to track it
[00:06] <Laurenceb_> perhaps an independent 868mhz solar CW tracker on the bottom of the envelope
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[00:08] <Laurenceb_> http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/358153.pdf <- nuclear powered airships
[00:08] <Laurenceb_> perfectly sane :D
[00:08] <SpeedEvil> :)
[00:08] <SpeedEvil> gyrotron performance is interesting
[00:08] <SpeedEvil> But they're not exactly off-the-shelf
[00:09] <SpeedEvil> (for ground-based nuclear)
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[00:28] <Laurenceb_> I sense a disturbance in the force
[00:29] <Laurenceb_> as if a thousand emdrivers have just had their hopes and dreams dashed forever
[00:29] <Laurenceb_> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39004.msg1479918#msg1479918
[00:30] <Laurenceb_> destroyed
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[00:40] <kc2pit> Hopes not based in fact will not be dashed by fact.
[00:40] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Well - no.
[00:41] <SpeedEvil> That.
[00:41] <SpeedEvil> I suspect many of the people in this thread think a directional coupler must be some sort of hozelok fitting.
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[07:44] <SpeedEvil> http://www.csbf.nasa.gov/map/balloon8/flight668N.htm
[07:46] <SpeedEvil> http://www.csbf.nasa.gov/antarctica/ice.htm
[07:47] <eroomde> payload info http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20120013588.pdf
[07:49] <eroomde> i love these scientific observation payloads slung under balloons
[07:49] <SpeedEvil> I'd hoped there was a link to live data, but looks like not
[07:49] <eroomde> it's the proper stuff
[07:49] <eroomde> i am very proud of my one little bracket inside spider
[07:49] <SpeedEvil> And only rarely nearly kills people :)
[07:50] <eroomde> http://www.acru.ukzn.ac.za/wp-content/uploads/cynthia-spider-1.jpg
[07:50] <eroomde> Vooloo_: that's a balloon-launched scanning telescope
[07:50] <eroomde> build yourself one of them for the ISS
[07:53] <Vaizki> didn't that one end badly...
[07:55] <eroomde> spider? don;t think so
[07:55] <eroomde> its predecessor blast got wrecked by a bad landing on an antarctica flight
[07:55] <eroomde> tho the data was good
[07:56] <Vaizki> ah ok
[08:11] <fsphil> half of antarctica probaby still has bits of it :/
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[08:25] <fsphil> (spoilers if you haven't seen the film they made)
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[08:30] <SA6BSS-Mike> last night first EU station received PS-58
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[08:39] <Vaizki> what kind of antenna do you know?
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[08:59] <Vaizki> PS-58 less than 50 km from the equator
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[09:05] <AndyEsser> morning all
[09:05] <daveake> morning
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[09:11] <Vaizki> btw what's the shelf life of balloons? I guess pretty long if the bag is not opened?
[09:13] <AndyEsser> find out what the shelf life of a condom is
[09:13] <AndyEsser> I suspect they're roughly similar :)
[09:13] <Vaizki> well for the average radio amateur I guess about 30 years? :)
[09:14] <Vaizki> now where's my coat...
[09:14] <AndyEsser> *burn*
[09:14] <AndyEsser> :P
[09:15] <AndyEsser> http://imgur.com/LfiA6hx
[09:15] <AndyEsser> FINALLY
[09:15] <AndyEsser> that looks much more reasonable, wouldn't you agree adamgreig ?
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[09:16] <Vaizki> yes, about an hour for descent looks reasonable?
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[09:17] <Vaizki> although maybe that's a bit idealistic, I think some of the ones I followed on the tracker took more like 50 mins
[09:18] <Vaizki> maybe you can dig up old data from habhub and make us a statistic ;)
[09:18] <AndyEsser> well I'll be comparing my projected descent with actual in realtime when I launch
[09:19] <AndyEsser> and will adjust my models accordingly
[09:19] <AndyEsser> there are some unknowns in that model
[09:19] <AndyEsser> Cd of the parachute, and the weight of the payload
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[09:19] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: it would be interested to dig out all the launches in habhub, and group the data using the same parachutes and show how they perform
[09:20] <AndyEsser> perhaps
[09:20] <AndyEsser> does mean trying to find out what parachutes each launch used
[09:21] <Vaizki> maybe you have to drive with the parachute open and measure drag with a luggage scale
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[09:21] <Vaizki> I want pictures though!
[09:21] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: I err.... hadn't discounted such things
[09:21] <AndyEsser> ;)
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[09:22] <RealBorg> you can have more fun testing parachutes if you attach a rc controlled fan to them ;)
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[09:28] <Vaizki> of course one way to do it is just launch something cheap & cheerful (pink!) and collect the data
[09:28] <AndyEsser> if I was specifically doing parachute testing, I'd want some reasonably ok accelerometers
[09:28] <AndyEsser> which I'm not sure if I'll build into my current tracker design
[09:29] <AndyEsser> depends on how soon I want to launch
[09:29] <AndyEsser> winds aren't great atm :(
[09:29] <AndyEsser> so might have a good few months still
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[09:47] <RealBorg> what hardware are you going to use?
[09:48] <AndyEsser> RealBorg: can you be more specific?
[09:48] <RealBorg> arduino, raspberry,...
[09:48] <AndyEsser> eww
[09:48] <AndyEsser> custom build
[09:48] <AndyEsser> AVR 328p 8-bit uC as the 'brain'
[09:48] <RealBorg> arduino then
[09:49] <Vaizki> no
[09:49] <AndyEsser> no
[09:49] <Vaizki> it's avr, not arduino :P
[09:49] <AndyEsser> a particularly arduino uses a 328p
[09:49] <AndyEsser> but a 328p is not an arduino
[09:50] <fsphil> +1000
[09:50] <AndyEsser> morning fsphil
[09:51] <Vaizki> to be more precise, AndyEsser is not using the arduino board, the arduino bootloader, the arduino "ide", the arduino libraries or the arduino toolchain
[09:51] <fsphil> morning
[09:51] <RealBorg> but he is using the compiler
[09:51] <AndyEsser> no
[09:52] <fsphil> nope
[09:52] <AndyEsser> avr-gcc
[09:52] <AndyEsser> avr-objcopy
[09:52] <AndyEsser> nothing to do with arduino's at all
[09:52] <fsphil> the way god intended
[09:52] <fsphil> even arduino uses avr-gcc :p
[09:52] <Vaizki> well arduino uses ..
[09:52] <Vaizki> yes
[09:52] <Vaizki> :)
[09:52] <Vaizki> dammit
[09:52] <fsphil> there is no arduino compiler
[09:52] <RealBorg> since I am on linux there are no other compilers for arduino for me
[09:52] <AndyEsser> doesn't make it the "Arduino Compiler"
[09:53] <AndyEsser> it's just a compiler, targetting a specific architecture
[09:53] <fsphil> arduino (the software) is just a crap IDE written in Java that sits on top of the non-arduino bits that do the actual work
[09:53] <RealBorg> I've been in software development for ~20 years
[09:54] <fsphil> you should take a look under the hood then, you'll find it more interesting
[09:54] <fsphil> arduino is possibly the worse IDE ever written
[09:54] <Vaizki> fsphil, to be fair it's also a mismash of libraries written mostly by students learning c++? :)
[09:54] <AndyEsser> Eclipse ;)
[09:55] <fsphil> ah. I've only heard of eclipse, not actually used it
[09:55] <RealBorg> I simply call the processors supprted by avr-gcc "arduino"
[09:55] <RealBorg> for they can run these shitty libraries
[09:55] <fsphil> better to call them AVR, cause that's what they is
[09:55] <AndyEsser> RealBorg: that's like saying the CPU in your PC as a ".Net"
[09:56] <AndyEsser> because the .Net Framework can run on them
[09:56] <Vaizki> or calling an arm cpu an iphone
[09:56] <RealBorg> AndyEsser, i call the cpu in my systems either arm or x86
[09:57] <Vaizki> ok maybe this case is closed, let's move on..
[09:57] <AndyEsser> RealBorg: so call them AVR's not Arudinos then
[09:57] <Vaizki> I move for coffee
[09:57] <fsphil> it'll all be arm eventually :)
[09:57] <RealBorg> yeah
[09:57] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: You for coffee?
[09:57] <AndyEsser> (works better when spoken outloud)
[09:57] <fsphil> english is weird
[09:58] <RealBorg> AndyEsser, will try and if I do call them arduino please substitute avr
[09:58] <fsphil> :)
[09:58] <fsphil> I do like AVRs, I hope microchip don't screw it up
[09:58] <jonsowman> yeah they can keep the awfulness to the PIC line
[09:58] <jonsowman> ;)
[09:59] <AndyEsser> fsphil: from what I've experienced so far - lovely little uC
[09:59] <AndyEsser> I want to move to the STM32 stuff
[09:59] <jonsowman> stm32s are great
[09:59] <AndyEsser> but that's for v2
[09:59] <fsphil> yeah, I'm starting to like the stm parts
[09:59] <RealBorg> maybe I somehow like word "arduino"
[09:59] <RealBorg> sounds like the name for a little dinosaur
[09:59] <fsphil> bit of a learning curve for me to get over
[10:00] <gonzo_> I like the pic, been using them since the first ones came out
[10:00] <jonsowman> got a blackmagic probe fsphi?
[10:00] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: first chips I ever used were PICs
[10:00] <jonsowman> er, fsphil
[10:00] <AndyEsser> PIC16Fxxx stuff
[10:00] <fsphil> the *duino name thing got a little over-used, thankfully not so much now
[10:00] <fsphil> jonsowman: not yet, but planning to
[10:01] <jonsowman> do :) they make arm development so happy
[10:01] <jonsowman> and you'll soon wonder how you coped without proper debugging on avr
[10:01] <jonsowman> i certainly do
[10:01] <AndyEsser> jonsowman: this is why the first thing I did was write code to spurt debug messages on the UART
[10:01] <AndyEsser> at least I can do "printf() debugging"
[10:01] <AndyEsser> but yea, a proper debug environment would be nice
[10:02] <AndyEsser> (I know there is the AVR dragon that can help)
[10:02] <jonsowman> well yes
[10:02] <jonsowman> in the same way you can put led_on() at some point in the code to see when/if it gets there
[10:02] <AndyEsser> hehe yea
[10:02] <AndyEsser> but putting breakpoints, inspecting variables/registers, etc
[10:02] <AndyEsser> that'd be priceless
[10:02] <jonsowman> but proper test.debug with gdb is the best
[10:02] <jonsowman> test/debug
[10:03] <jonsowman> fsphil: there's a rough plan for a few of us to make our own version of the bmp.. not sure if anyone has mentioned to you
[10:03] <AndyEsser> damn it... there's a launch today, meant to set up my SDR up to try and catch it :(
[10:04] <RealBorg> where? when?
[10:04] <SM0ULC-Reb> 13ish ?
[10:04] <AndyEsser> Bristol - 1200
[10:05] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: i guess you alredy practiced receiving via the websdrs' (correct form?)
[10:05] <AndyEsser> I have not
[10:05] <AndyEsser> only receiving I've done is from my own equipment
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[10:07] <craag> Well you're welcome to use my SDRs AndyEsser http://websdr.suws.org.uk/ ;)
[10:07] <craag> although of course it's a pico - so relies on it coming in range of Farnham
[10:07] <AndyEsser> craag: cheers
[10:08] <AndyEsser> was mainly hoping to check my own receiving equipment :)
[10:08] <AndyEsser> but might tune in and see
[10:08] <Vaizki> the websdr is a great learning tool
[10:09] <Vaizki> I've done 99% of my tracking with them because well not many balloons end up this way so that I can catch them with my lowly antenna
[10:09] <eroomde> jonsowman: avr has propper debugging
[10:09] <eroomde> it has jtag
[10:09] <eroomde> well some do
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[10:11] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: agree. supergreat to practice on to know all software works.
[10:12] <SM0ULC-Reb> especially with rsid etc
[10:13] <Vaizki> without practise on web sdrs I would probably not have been to catch those few balloons that I was able to receive with my own gear..
[10:13] <eroomde> if i was hypothetically doing a microcontroller fundamentals course, i still might pick avr as there is still jtag, and you can teach important peripheral and architectural concepts (like timers and interrupts) with much less overhead to set everything up
[10:13] <eroomde> than with arm
[10:14] <Vaizki> a balloon over central estonia is not a very strong signal here :)
[10:14] <Vaizki> you mean code overhead or toolchain overhead?
[10:14] <eroomde> code overhead per peripheral
[10:14] <Vaizki> right
[10:14] <eroomde> toolchain overhead is about the same
[10:15] <Vaizki> so what's the stm32 toolchain of choice now?
[10:15] <eroomde> but arm peripherals (or rather, peripherals as typically found on an stm32fXXXX) are so wonderful and capable and flexible that you need to be really quite forensic and thorough with the datasheets to make them do as you please
[10:15] <Vaizki> I have a nucleus somewhere that arrived at a busy time and forgot about it :(
[10:16] <eroomde> https://launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded
[10:16] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: we miss the good old days of Leos serie..
[10:19] <Vaizki> I kinda missed them completely, I learned about HAB a year ago...
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[10:21] <eroomde> If Leo's flights were the good old days then that makes me feel well past-it
[10:21] <AndyEsser> hehe
[10:23] <Vaizki> soon eroomde will be launching HABs made from pig bladders that broadcast gastric band endorsements over baudot rtty
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[10:23] <eroomde> like it should be
[10:23] <eroomde> before the M6 fools came and ruined everything
[10:23] <eroomde> or the CB untermenschen
[10:24] <Vaizki> I used to have a CB in my boat as a teenager, should I do penance?
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[10:25] <eroomde> yes!
[10:25] <eroomde> You should go and apologise to someone with a full amateur license
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[10:26] <SM0ULC-Reb> eroomde: :)
[10:26] <eroomde> maybe you don't realise, but not only has a fully qualified fully licensed radionaut of the open airwaves managed to memorise 8 Q-codes, they have also managed to retain the first 10 pages of a beginner text on electronics
[10:26] <eroomde> if that doesn't put you in your place, I don't know what does
[10:27] <AndyEsser> I'm sensing some sarcasm
[10:27] <AndyEsser> :)
[10:27] <Vaizki> well I know a bunch of fully licensed radio amateurs and as you imply they are not to be approached lightly
[10:27] <Vaizki> or without protective gear
[10:27] <eroomde> you must not make eye contact as you approach
[10:28] <eroomde> let them key the first tone
[10:28] <Vaizki> often the QRM is such that I just stare in confusion, fortunately it passes for awe
[10:30] <gonzo_> I brought another CB recently
[10:31] <gonzo_> though only for nostalgia value, as it was the same as one I had as a teen
[10:31] <Vaizki> actually CB worked fine on the boat, cell phones cost a fortune back then (NMT) and you couldn't get a marine VHF license as a kid
[10:32] <gonzo_> I used it a huge amount as a kid
[10:32] <gonzo_> chatting at home, and a couple of us had an rtty link running
[10:32] <Vaizki> we rigged up a soviet tank helmet with integrated mic & headphones to the CB
[10:33] <Vaizki> was pretty funny looking headgear for boating though :)
[10:33] <gonzo_> and great for camping, with a bit of wire strung up a tree and some batteries nicked from the road-men's lamps
[10:33] <Vaizki> http://www.russianarmysurplus.com/media/products/russian-tank-helmet.jpg
[10:33] <Vaizki> very similar to that
[10:34] <Vaizki> throat mic was pretty bad enough to let mom know that yes yes we're coming back for dinner...
[10:34] <Vaizki> bad but enough
[10:35] <gonzo_> actually one of those would look better and probably safet than these crappy cycle helments that the peddle people wear
[10:35] <eroomde> AndyEsser: i present to you, with apologies because it will make you want to spend more money, how to do cables and connectors properly. Aerospace is basically the same as this [motorsport] https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html
[10:36] <AndyEsser> eroomde: damn you...
[10:36] <Vaizki> hehe
[10:36] <AndyEsser> you're trying to make me spend so much money that I never actually launch, get bored and leave, right?
[10:37] <eroomde> no! i have confidence you will launch
[10:37] <Vaizki> close that page right now
[10:37] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: too late
[10:37] <AndyEsser> eroomde: might've erm... downloaded the swagelok brochure the other day as well
[10:37] <eroomde> you're one of the few here that turn up, announce an intention to build a payload, and then actually build a payload, all within a few months
[10:37] <AndyEsser> haha
[10:37] <AndyEsser> "build"
[10:37] <AndyEsser> it's prototyped
[10:37] <AndyEsser> not built
[10:38] <Vaizki> I built up a working tracker but any launch plans got scrapped for last summer.. let's see if next summer is better.
[10:39] <eroomde> protoduction is the name of the game here
[10:40] <AndyEsser> I need to prototype a bunch of other things before I order my PCBs
[10:40] <Vaizki> although I have considered scrapping RTTY and going APRS because of the existing receiver network.. but this would involve getting into aprs update frequencies with the existing HAM crowd as well as obtaining permission to fly an amateur radio station
[10:41] <Vaizki> dunno. in my country we didn't hack down all the trees in centuries past and even the road network is not that dense
[10:41] <eroomde> avoiding interacting with hams is probably a feature
[10:41] <eroomde> rather than a bug
[10:41] <AndyEsser> heh
[10:42] <Vaizki> so recovering a HAB might easily mean a 5-10km trek into a forest including crossing a lake
[10:42] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: that's rather awesome
[10:42] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: where are you, again?
[10:42] <Vaizki> Finland
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[10:42] <AndyEsser> I need to head to that part of the world sometime
[10:42] <eroomde> once landed we can probably crank the tx power up to watts
[10:42] <AndyEsser> from what I've seen Finland/Norway/Sweden are beautiful
[10:42] <AndyEsser> (although expensive)
[10:42] <eroomde> and treat it as remote equipment
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[10:43] <eroomde> provided we have an uplink to turn it off if we receive reports of interference
[10:43] <Vaizki> well pine needles and UHF..
[10:43] <Vaizki> it's a nightmare
[10:43] <eroomde> 1/r^2 in free space, 1/r^4 in woodland, 1/r^6 in wet woodland
[10:43] <eroomde> is the rule of thumb in most engineering guides
[10:43] <eroomde> scary
[10:44] <Hilts> Would there be any objection that anyone would have with testing my transmitter duing a road trip?
[10:45] <Vaizki> 76% of Finland is forest. and I mean real forest. That's even taking account that we have Lapland of which parts are unsuitable for tree growth.
[10:45] <eroomde> your hab transmitter? no, knock yourself out Hilts
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[10:45] <eroomde> no one will begrudge you testing, it's the best thing you can do
[10:46] <eroomde> just check there's no one scheduled to fly on your frequency that day
[10:46] <Hilts> So register it the same way as I would for a balloon?
[10:46] <Vaizki> just make a payload doc
[10:46] <Hilts> I see an HR_V_CHASE on map right now
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[10:48] <Hilts> Thanks i'll do that, make a payload doc when I'm ready to test
[10:48] <Vaizki> and just so you know, you can't change or remove them. just make a new one and it'll use the latest one.
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[10:52] <eroomde> AndyEsser: note the nice features of dual-wall spec55 wire. It has inner and outer insulation of different colours. That allows you to immediately spot abrasion on cable runs as the blue inner insulator starts to show through the otherwise pristine white insulation
[10:52] <eroomde> best kidney you'll ever spend
[10:54] <SM0ULC-Reb> the releasetime for ubsed was 12UTC right?
[10:55] <daveake> 12ISH
[10:55] <daveake> ISH = UTC + rand(0..2)
[10:56] <eroomde> the distribution of rand is skewed towards 2
[10:56] <daveake> It's probably a distribution rather than random
[10:56] <eroomde> although richard is a model of quiet competance
[10:56] <daveake> snap
[10:56] <eroomde> distributions are random /pedant
[10:56] <daveake> Thought that was coming :)
[10:57] <daveake> "evenly random", or whatever the technical term (that's coming too) is
[10:57] <Vaizki> :D
[10:57] <eroomde> uniform
[10:57] <Vaizki> evenly random.. is that a thing?
[10:57] <daveake> obliged
[10:58] <Hilts> One more question. Is there a database of flight names and the frequencies they are transmitting on? I see HKLo1 in flight but am clueless as to what frequency it is using.
[10:58] <AndyEsser> sorry - broke my linux VM
[10:58] <eroomde> it happens when you try and run anything on windows
[10:59] Action: AndyEsser glares at eroomde
[10:59] <AndyEsser> miss the good ol' days of my last job where I had a Linux PC and a Windows PC
[11:02] <Vaizki> I just use vagrant on windows now but I rarely run VMs on a desktop machine anyway
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[11:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> Hilts: all flights are announced here http://tracker.habhub.org/ and https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas
[11:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> HKLo1 is probably just a testsetup for a uppcomming flight
[11:36] <fsphil> some, not all :)
[11:37] <SA6BSS-Mike> but mostly and the hang out in this channel helps allot to :)
[11:37] <SA6BSS-Mike> *then
[11:54] <fsphil> jonsowman: yeah. let me know if there's any progress, would be interested
[11:54] <Hilts> I was hoping to catch some raw telemetry from a transmitter on WebSDR
[11:54] <fsphil> I can live with openocd for the moment :)
[11:55] <craag> Hilts: You may have some luck with an upcoming launch from bristol in ~5 minutes :)
[11:55] <craag> It's a pico, so depends where it goes though as it won't have much range.
[11:55] <craag> prediction currently shows it heading towards Farnham though :D
[11:56] <craag> eh, that's for 30km burst, maybe not :/
[11:57] <daveake> ha
[12:05] <gonzo_> dunno, that 100gm I did popped just short of 30k
[12:06] <daveake> Is this a 100 latex or a foil party balloon ?
[12:06] <craag> a foil I believe
[12:07] <gonzo_> mine was latex
[12:07] <daveake> I thought so but (scorolling back thru the thread) I don't see it mentioned
[12:07] <gonzo_> what does the 100 refer to on a foil then? cm?
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[12:08] <daveake> Not seen that. The large Qualatex is 36"
[12:09] <daveake> Oh, they're 0.1 cu m
[12:10] <richardeoin> starting to fill ubseds now, now aiming to be up around about 1230
[12:10] <eroomde> timelyish
[12:11] <craag> 36" foil richardeoin ?
[12:11] <daveake> rsgb permission? :p
[12:12] <AndyEsser> daveake: :P
[12:13] <Hilts> On Farnham 434.6 Contestia 16/1000, nada so far...
[12:14] <eroomde> it's not up yet
[12:14] <craag> Hilts: Just being filled, launch eta 12:30 (see above)
[12:14] <craag> Also not sure it'll drift into range for an hour or so at least, if it does.
[12:15] <eroomde> Hilts: these pico balloons ascent much more slowly than conventional high-altitude balloons
[12:15] <eroomde> ascend*
[12:15] <eroomde> so it might take a wee while to get above your horizon once released
[12:15] <AndyEsser> The Path to Ascension is slower for Pico-kin
[12:16] <AndyEsser> BAS job is looking really attractive atm
[12:17] <Hilts> no hurry :) sharing the water fall with Pink Floyd
[12:17] <AndyEsser> Dark Side Of Bristol?
[12:17] <AndyEsser> :)
[12:17] <eroomde> AndyEsser: talk to my colleague james
[12:17] <daveake> The Great HAB In The Sky
[12:17] <eroomde> he applied but was a bit put off
[12:18] <daveake> AndyEsser It'll be "Wish You Were Here" if your first HAB lands in the sea
[12:18] <eroomde> the pithy PR version of what they do seems to be much more exciting than the reality of how projects are actually done once you're an engineer on the inside, from what a few people have said
[12:18] <eroomde> exactly like how working for ESA is rubbish
[12:18] <fl_0> daveake: not sure if you read my last lines about measuring the voltage on the PitS board
[12:18] <eroomde> even though 'spaaaaaace!!!!11!1one'
[12:18] <daveake> yeah I'll check that with Upu
[12:18] <fl_0> ah you did?
[12:18] <fl_0> ok
[12:19] <fl_0> If running on 4 AA batteries (as included) the ADC converter will be overdriven
[12:19] <fl_0> it measures up to 2.048V
[12:19] <daveake> yes I read it all
[12:19] <fl_0> ah k
[12:19] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I'd be going as a glorified IT technician anyway - can't really oversell that in PR
[12:19] <eroomde> lol
[12:20] <eroomde> fair enough
[12:20] <fl_0> we exchanged R13 with a 19k R
[12:20] <fl_0> sorry
[12:20] <fl_0> a 49k R
[12:20] <fl_0> that makes a divider of 1:5
[12:20] <fl_0> and allows to measure up to around 10V
[12:21] <daveake> yes yes I'll speak to Upu about the R values in the BOM and I'll get back to you
[12:22] <Vaizki> BAS as in British Antarctic Survey?
[12:22] <fl_0> no problem at all :)
[12:22] <fl_0> thank you for investigating on the
[12:22] <fl_0> thank you for investigating on that
[12:22] <fl_0> our PitS now measures correct (we do need to make some changes to the C code)
[12:22] <fl_0> current measurement does not work yet
[12:23] <fl_0> we will investigate further on that as well
[12:23] Nick change: Vooloo_ -> Vooloo
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[12:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS13 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS13
[12:57] <richardeoin> ^^ ubseds up
[12:57] <AndyEsser> woo
[12:57] <Vostok> this ubseds me
[12:57] <richardeoin> has been up for 10 minutes, was a bit slow to get lock
[12:58] <daveake> only 5 sats now
[12:58] <UpuWork> hello
[12:58] <richardeoin> hey UpuWork
[12:58] <UpuWork> oh hello distruptor of the mailing list
[12:58] <daveake> hah
[12:59] <AndyEsser> :)
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[13:01] <SM0ULC-Reb> :)
[13:02] <richardeoin> craag: not this time, custom
[13:02] <craag> oh sweet :)
[13:03] <richardeoin> also using a se880 gps rather than a ublox
[13:03] <richardeoin> hence the difference sats, ttff behaviour
[13:03] <craag> ah
[13:03] <craag> with the super powersaving mode
[13:07] <craag> powersaving by not getting a fix currently :/
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[13:07] <daveake> will no sentences for 10 mins
[13:08] <daveake> well ^
[13:08] <craag> yeah just looked at logtail
[13:08] <daveake> I did that :)
[13:08] <Vaizki> I had it open too
[13:08] <craag> richardeoin's gone to get the beer ;)
[13:08] <Vaizki> maybe I'm getting the hang of this :)
[13:09] <eroomde> richardeoin: any photos of the computer?
[13:09] <Vaizki> the one that gets the beer doesn't have to swim out to sea to get the payload
[13:10] <daveake> If Darkside was up now he'd post a pic of someone swimming out to retreive a payload
[13:11] <Vaizki> if I ever mobilize my lazy ass to actually launch I will have a rubber dinghy in the back of the car...
[13:12] <daveake> never used mine
[13:12] <Vaizki> land of a thousand lakes..
[13:12] <daveake> yeah
[13:13] <Vaizki> actually there's 187 888 lakes
[13:13] <Vaizki> so. dinghy.
[13:13] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: the land of the thousand lakes
[13:14] <Vaizki> no, we say land of A thousand lakes :)
[13:14] <Vaizki> anyway, hundred thousand lakes would sound nicer
[13:15] <daveake> land on a frozen lake
[13:15] <Vostok> one hundred billion lakes
[13:15] <Vostok> in austin powers voice
[13:15] <Vaizki> yea right now we could do that. but then again trekking into a forest in 70cm of snow to find a payload...
[13:15] <Vaizki> I hate skiing
[13:16] <daveake> updated
[13:18] <Vaizki> I wonder if the hams are recording the interference to their repeater
[13:24] <eroomde> Hilts: it's about to peep above your horizon
[13:24] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: but then no leaves on the trees.. :) nice ice to land on...
[13:25] <Hilts> I'm ah listening, but all I hears is bleeping noise.
[13:25] <SM0ULC-Reb> was it 134.600 mhz ?
[13:26] <eroomde> girrit 10 mins
[13:26] <Vaizki> SM0ULC-Reb, most of the trees have NEEDLES here
[13:26] <Vaizki> needles which absorb radio waves
[13:27] <Flutterbat> the iron wood
[13:28] <Flutterbat> it turns brown during autumn, because it rusts :p
[13:29] <SM0ULC-Reb> :D
[13:30] <richardeoin> still receiving ubseds13 here every minute, internet connection is on the bends so not uploading
[13:31] <SM0ULC-Reb> ok, but you here it ok?
[13:32] <SM0ULC-Reb> height?
[13:33] <SM0ULC-Reb> ah, update :)
[13:33] <richardeoin> yep, five and nine :p
[13:33] <SM0ULC-Reb> 2000*3 feet
[13:34] <gonzo_> a bit late but: Does A=187.888 regarding lakes?
[13:34] Action: SM0ULC-Reb annoys SIbot
[13:34] <AndyEsser> it's metres not feet?
[13:35] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: just being annoying.. :)
[13:35] <AndyEsser> ah
[13:40] <SM0ULC-Reb> richardeoin: still ok?
[13:41] <richardeoin> yes
[13:41] <richardeoin> currently cursing the tp-link router thing
[13:42] <AndyEsser> ooo yea... tp-link are not great
[13:42] <Hilts> sweet! R01;$$UBSEDS13,13:41:27,160120,51.6290,-2.715%CFQ+SK76037,1.57,0.1,12.2,16.1*19F5 2$;8L'Z?-:>5<P!<F!6B_JN&6=P$
[13:42] <AndyEsser> Hilts: looks like you found it :)
[13:43] <Hilts> I'm on the other side of the pond so being able to see this on WebSDR is pretty awesome.
[13:44] <SM0ULC-Reb> richardeoin: default softare or wrt* ?
[13:44] <SM0ULC-Reb> Hilts: in France? ;)
[13:45] <Hilts> Vermont, USA
[13:45] <Hilts> bigger pond
[13:46] <SM0ULC-Reb> Hilts: cool. up early? :)
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[13:47] <Hilts> Early bird, IT, running patches, home early too! Works for me.
[13:47] Action: AndyEsser kicks self for not setting up SDR at home :(
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[13:47] <dbrooke> Oh, I wasn't expecting to receive UBSEDS that soon
[13:48] <SM0ULC-Reb> Hilts: like being early too. used to start at 6:00. no darn users interupt-thrashing your time... :)
[13:48] <richardeoin> SM0ULC-Reb: default I think, it belongs to my flatmate
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[13:49] <j0nnymac> wow this is new
[13:49] <j0nnymac> hello
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[13:53] <eroomde> hello j0nnymac
[13:53] <j0nnymac> hey there!
[13:53] <AndyEsser> big influx of people
[13:53] <eroomde> netsplit AndyEsser
[13:53] <j0nnymac> was looking to run a crazy idea passed the experts :)
[13:53] <AndyEsser> does Freenode not notify that it was a netsplit...
[13:54] <AndyEsser> fair enough
[13:54] <j0nnymac> so - looking to buy/make an ardupilot controlled glider
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[13:54] <j0nnymac> which is dropped from a HAB
[13:54] <j0nnymac> but
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[13:55] <j0nnymac> my first thought
[13:55] <j0nnymac> is that legal?
[13:55] <daveake> depends
[13:55] <j0nnymac> oooh...thats almost a yes :)
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[13:55] <daveake> which country ?
[13:55] <j0nnymac> UK
[13:55] <daveake> probably no then
[13:55] <j0nnymac> rats
[13:55] <eroomde> you'd have to get special permission
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[13:56] <j0nnymac> ooh - ok
[13:56] Nick change: Flutterb1t -> Flutterbat
[13:56] Possible future nick collision: Flutterbat
[13:56] <j0nnymac> wow
[13:56] Nick change: CrashX_ -> CrashX
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[13:56] <eroomde> AndyEsser: see?
[13:56] <j0nnymac> CAA typs special permission?
[13:56] Nick change: Crashdroid_ -> Crashdroid
[13:56] Possible future nick collision: Crashdroid
[13:56] <eroomde> yes
[13:56] <j0nnymac> type even
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[13:56] <j0nnymac> ok - is it a lot more involved than the permission for HAB?
[13:56] <eroomde> oh gosh yes
[13:56] <j0nnymac> oh :(
[13:56] <eroomde> there is no existing exemption for it
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[13:57] <eroomde> you'd probably have to have meetings with them
[13:57] <j0nnymac> oh...
[13:57] <eroomde> and persuade them you are sane and competant
[13:57] <j0nnymac> oh ok - i can do that
[13:57] <j0nnymac> hmmm...
[13:57] <j0nnymac> :)
[13:57] <eroomde> and then get a perhaps work closely with them to get some experimental slot, possibly involving money
[13:57] <j0nnymac> understood
[13:57] <j0nnymac> im thinking backup
[13:57] <j0nnymac> we release the glider at a legal height
[13:58] <AndyEsser> !ping
[13:58] <SpacenearUS> 03AndyEsser: No contact from 03
[13:58] <j0nnymac> but its a lot less fun
[13:58] <eroomde> they might wish to track or something, I'm unsure. I don't know if anyone has tried it. But the process could well not be dissimilar to wanting to fly a uav in airspace
[13:58] <j0nnymac> yeah - its pretty much that isnt it
[13:58] <eroomde> i think BAe have managed to get an experimental permit
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[13:59] <mattbrejza> i think soton has had persmission, but only for a very low altitude (like 400m)
[13:59] <mattbrejza> if that
[13:59] <j0nnymac> oh really
[13:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WP4POG-3 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WP4POG-3
[13:59] <j0nnymac> hmm
[13:59] <mattbrejza> although that might have been the existing uav limits rather than anything special
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[14:00] <j0nnymac> true... yep there are certainly rules around flyin drones that high...most of them say 'no'
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[14:03] <Oddstr13> oh, shiney, PS-58 is jt9 @ 10 MHz
[14:03] <Oddstr13> that means I might actually be able to receive data from it! :D
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[14:03] <Oddstr13> ...just need to make a ok antenna :P
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[14:08] <Oddstr13> would PS-58 be VK3ANH?
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[14:11] <gonzo_> a cb 5/8 wave is a 1/4 wave at about 10.8meg
[14:12] <gonzo_> though obviously needs an earth and the matching coils removing
[14:12] <Oddstr13> gonzo_: or, just my usual roughly cut random wire antenna? :P
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[14:14] <Oddstr13> that is rather impressive range for a 25mW TX
[14:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WP4POG-4 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WP4POG-4
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[14:16] <gurlavie> Hi, recommendation for cheap aprs at 144M? Need to launch 4 test balloons and I won't get them back. Tax!
[14:18] <kokey_> get balloons in the shape of shiny disks, then wait for the grainy photos to show up on UFO conspiracy sites and work out the location based on land marks and the horizon
[14:18] Nick change: kokey_ -> kokey
[14:18] <Vaizki> kookey
[14:19] <craag> gurlavie: If you're up to the soldering/programming then you can do it with an ISM TX chip such as si406x
[14:19] <craag> Else, try the HX1
[14:19] <craag> (radiometrix)
[14:19] <craag> good day g8jnj !
[14:19] <R6mco> [15:08] <Oddstr13> would PS-58 be VK3ANH? <- yes
[14:19] <g8jnj> Hi Phil
[14:20] <daveake> I did make a flying saucer HAB once ... http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/P1030196-1024x768.jpg
[14:20] <R6mco> received PS-57 (while flying) and PS-58 here in Netherlands
[14:20] <Oddstr13> R6mco: yea, I found the website for it by searching the callsign ^^
[14:20] <R6mco> I had a few WSPR decodes from PS-58 and PS-57
[14:21] <kokey> daveake: and they saw it in texas http://www.texasufosightings.com/new-sightings/category/castroville
[14:21] <Oddstr13> PS-58 is being received from New Zealand from its current position, apparently
[14:21] <Oddstr13> which is rather impressive
[14:21] <R6mco> yep
[14:21] <Vaizki> R6mco, what kind of antenna / receiver are you receiving with btw?
[14:22] <R6mco> I use a homebrew DC receiver with subharmonic mixer and a ~100m long 'bent' Beverage
[14:23] <g8jnj> Just tracking UBSEDS 13 - pity they chose 434.600MHz which is a repeater input frequency - data is corrupted up by FM signals and its chopping up QSO's on GB3BN
[14:24] <R6mco> g8jnj, what kind of telemetry is it sending ?
[14:24] <Vaizki> 100m long antenna. right.
[14:24] Nick change: Hix_ -> Hix
[14:24] <R6mco> Vaizki, it's a Beverage
[14:24] <g8jnj> Contesta 16/1000 with pips
[14:25] <R6mco> so low noise
[14:25] <R6mco> contestia, understood
[14:25] <eroomde> richardeoin: is there a picture of the flight computer available?
[14:25] <R6mco> [15:21] <Oddstr13> PS-58 is being received from New Zealand from its current position, apparently <-- ZL1RS had one of the most sensitive 30m RX setups in the world
[14:26] <R6mco> as you see from his last spot , he's the most distant station but PS-58 has the strongest SNR compared to more nearby US stations
[14:26] <Vaizki> R6mco, I have zero HF knowledge but yes I googled it.. :)
[14:26] <R6mco> hah = has
[14:26] <R6mco> had*
[14:27] <R6mco> these PS balloons send telemetry with JT9 and also TX WSPR traces
[14:29] <Vaizki> yes and I have been considering setting up an antenna but a bit unsure what would be a good "generic" hf receiver antenna.. am not a HAM (although my teenage son is) so not too keen on the transmitting (yet)
[14:29] <Vaizki> long wire is doable, fan dipole maybe not so much
[14:30] <Vaizki> 50m long bent beverage.. nope :)
[14:31] <Oddstr13> I live on a farm, so 100m antenna? sure!
[14:31] <Vaizki> I live in a "city", more like a village
[14:32] <richardeoin> eroomde: https://github.com/bristol-seds/bristol-seds.github.io/blob/master/assets/flights/13/ubseds13_board_bad_lighting.JPG
[14:32] <R6mco> it's always a good idea to experiment with antennas, until you've the most optimal setup
[14:33] <Vaizki> richardeoin, looks nice.. you need a better camera though :)
[14:33] <Vaizki> R6mco, so is your antenna 200m of wire bent into a 100m long setup or 100/50m?
[14:34] <Vaizki> I google beverage antenna setups and first page I get, the guy has 2.. one 700m long and the other 490m..
[14:34] <Vaizki> I give up :D
[14:35] <Oddstr13> R6mco: I've received JT65 with distances over 6000km with a ~1.6m random wire antenna hanging from my roof indoors, and a RTL-SDR
[14:36] <Oddstr13> I belive that was on 24 or 28 MHz
[14:36] <eroomde> HF is cool
[14:37] <Vaizki> so maybe I'll just set up a G5RV to start with and see if HF is any fun
[14:37] <Oddstr13> you know what would've been cool? UKHASnet over CB :P
[14:37] <Vaizki> Citizen's Balloon Network
[14:37] <R6mco> yes, JT65 works very well
[14:38] <Oddstr13> SSB allows for a rather high wattage on the CB bands
[14:38] <Oddstr13> 4W or some such if I remember correctly
[14:39] <Oddstr13> I've listened to CB from the UK with the same setup I used for JT65
[14:40] <Laurenceb_> richarddeoin: is that telit GPS?
[14:40] <eroomde> yes
[14:40] <eroomde> thanks richardeoin
[14:41] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[14:41] Action: Laurenceb_ downloads datasheet
[14:41] <eroomde> se880 that has been mentioned here a bunch of times
[14:41] <Laurenceb_> ah yes I remeber now
[14:42] <Laurenceb_> nice to see it in use
[14:42] <Oddstr13> I wonder how much better the airspy is than the rtl-sdr :P
[14:44] <Laurenceb_> SE880 is almost as good as SIRF in micro power mode
[14:44] <Laurenceb_> richarddeoin: is the serial interface fully documented, and have you tried micro power mode?
[14:45] <eroomde> it is sirf Laurenceb_
[14:47] <richardeoin> sirf vi, I've been using this http://www.mt-system.ru/sites/default/files/docs/documents/sim18%20module%20osp%20manual%20(cs-129291-dc-8)%5B1%5D.pdf
[14:47] <eroomde> datasheet part number generation guide uses 'O' but they actually mean '0'. Very annoying typo
[14:49] <richardeoin> agreed eroomde, the user manual pdf has no table of contents which is annoying too
[14:51] <Laurenceb_> ah I didnt realise
[14:53] <eroomde> £45.45 + VAT is £54.54
[14:54] <cm13g09> eroomde: how convienient....
[14:55] <eroomde> a palinvoice
[14:58] <kokey> haha
[14:58] <kokey> they better not change the VAT rate
[14:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> richardeoin, What type of balloon is it, does it still have alu. coating ?
[15:02] <richardeoin> Geoff-G8DHE: custom pa-evoh-pe, no alu. coating
[15:05] <richardeoin> very much a test envelope
[15:06] <eroomde> how big?
[15:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah I won't bother getting the telescope out then! It will probably be past sunset by the time it gets over me anyway!
[15:08] <SM0ULC-Reb> does it have solar onboard? *goldfish RAM*
[15:11] <richardeoin> eroomde: built as a 1.4m diameter circle, less when inflated
[15:12] <eroomde> nice
[15:12] <richardeoin> having to go to for a larger diameter because our film is thicker
[15:12] <eroomde> good stuff
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[15:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> Was it an 8minute cycle after 8Km ?
[15:13] <richardeoin> I suspect Leo's film was 15-20 microns in thickness, working back from guessed dimensions
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[15:13] <richardeoin> Ours is 50 microns
[15:13] <richardeoin> SM0ULC-Reb: No solar, but the battery should last a good few days all being well
[15:14] <richardeoin> Geoff-G8DHE: 4 minute cycle after 8km, coming up shortly
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> <richardeoin> I think Leos was just over 20
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> about 24
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> but he stretched it a quite a lot before launch
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> where is the internal temp sensor?
[15:20] <richardeoin> Laurenceb_: that's reasonable, yes stretching would make a difference
[15:21] <richardeoin> for the SE880 it's not micro power mode, just full power until it gets a suitably valid fix and then hibernate
[15:21] <richardeoin> not sure if that's optimal but simple to start with
[15:21] <richardeoin> the 'TTFF' field records how long it took from wakeup to suitably valid fix
[15:22] <AndyEsser> was going to ask about that :)
[15:22] <AndyEsser> Time To Find Fix?
[15:22] <richardeoin> Laurenceb_: internal temp sensor is the MS5607
[15:23] <AndyEsser> hopefully it's still above the horizon for me when I get home :)
[15:23] <AndyEsser> would like to be able to pick it up
[15:23] <richardeoin> external it the thermistor sticking out http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/assets/flights/13/tracker_with_heatshrink.JPG
[15:24] <richardeoin> AndyEsser: that's a reasonable acronym, Time To First Fix also works
[15:24] <AndyEsser> ah
[15:24] <AndyEsser> close enough :)
[15:24] <richardeoin> gone to 4-minute cycles now
[15:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03URKHAB - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=URKHAB
[15:26] <eroomde> does anyone else ever have a thing, when designing some new pcb or similar of saying 'oh my god! this is the PERFECT ic - how have i never come across it before???'
[15:26] <eroomde> and then downloading the datasheet
[15:26] <AndyEsser> o dear, what have you discovered?
[15:27] <eroomde> and then having the OS add ' (1).pdf' to the end because there's already a copy in the downloads folder from some time in the ancient past?
[15:27] <AndyEsser> haha
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> richardeoin: interesting GPS technique, thats what Leo tried at first
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> it used slightly less power with ublox but the first fixes were really noisy
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> so he used continuous mode after that, eating a few mA all the time
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> I was wondering if the micro power mode might be optimal, but it seems to be working well so far
[15:34] <AndyEsser> !dial UBSEDS13
[15:34] <SpacenearUS> 03AndyEsser: Latest dials for 03UBSEDS13 10(ac0a): 03434.599294 MHz, 434.5988 MHz, 434.599 MHz, 434.5994 MHz, 434.59932 MHz, 434.599373 MHz, 434.5982 MHz, 434.599399 MHz
[15:36] <fsphil> http://www.nature.com/news/evidence-grows-for-giant-planet-on-fringes-of-solar-system-1.19182
[15:37] <fsphil> calling it planet nine just to annoy pluto fans :)
[15:39] <richardeoin> Laurenceb_: hmm interesting, might be worth trying in the future
[15:39] <AndyEsser> Pretty sure my rubbish antenna is an sub-optimal location to receive this signal :)
[15:39] <gonzo_> or saying that you are more of a daffy Duck fan
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[15:46] <Laurenceb_> rate dropping off?
[15:47] <richardeoin> down to once every 4 minutes Laurenceb_
[15:47] <richardeoin> deliberate change to save power
[15:48] <Oddstr13> eroomde: not while designing PCBs, but, yes, I frequently have naming conflicts of the type in my downloads folder :P
[15:49] <AndyEsser> richardeoin: does it continuously broadcast something in between telemetry?
[15:49] <eroomde> BBC 6 Music iirc
[15:50] <daveake> CTCSS tones
[15:51] <eroomde> not a bad idea
[15:51] <eroomde> perhaps an eletronically steerable phased array
[15:51] <gonzo_> lists of ailments and who's died
[15:54] <eroomde> that's what you call going undercover on repeaters
[15:55] <richardeoin> it keeps itself busy making QSLs for the IOIDXDXDXCC competition
[15:57] <craag> Does it not have a human to leave connected up to the radio doing jt65 while it's at work to get those?
[15:59] <eroomde> richardeoin: i have prepared you a qsl card to send out
[15:59] <eroomde> http://media.makeameme.org/created/ubseds13-qsl-73s.jpg
[16:00] <jonsowman> lol
[16:00] <gonzo_> that just caused me to choke on a mouthfull of tea, and the whole office stare at me
[16:01] <fsphil> lol
[16:01] <richardeoin> craag: d*amn, I can't remember if steve let go of the balloon when we launched it
[16:01] <richardeoin> maybe he's up then now, trying to send psk31 on 160m
[16:02] <richardeoin> eroomde: thanks
[16:02] <richardeoin> I've heard there's a gutenburg press in bath I can use to get some printed
[16:03] <Vaizki> don't assume they can find a bath
[16:03] <Vaizki> Oh bath as in Bath.
[16:04] <fsphil> I've never been to bath.
[16:04] <fsphil> I mean, Bath.
[16:05] <gonzo_> you are not missing much
[16:06] <gonzo_> and neither have many AR rally goers
[16:07] <AndyEsser> Barth
[16:09] <eroomde> Bath is quite nice, I think.
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[16:10] <gonzo_> I was on the piss there so it was more Barf
[16:10] <daveake> It is a nice place
[16:11] <daveake> when you're not there, possibly :)
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[16:16] <garymortimer> afternoon all
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[16:18] <G4AIU-Eugene> Good afternoon all:
[16:19] <fsphil> ahoy
[16:21] <AndyEsser> http://imgur.com/nj3Z6Sn <- this is unlikely to be UBSEDS13, I'm guessing
[16:22] <G4AIU-Eugene> Need help please: under Win 10 the HAB map says "No Location" (therefor no icon)- it was OK under Win 7. What do I need to do? Tks.
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[16:23] <Laurenceb_> it seems to be floating
[16:24] <Laurenceb_> very impressive achievement
[16:24] <Laurenceb_> did you pre stretch the envelope?
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[16:26] <fsphil> AndyEsser: you should increase your fft size
[16:28] <SM0ULC-Reb> fsphil: increase nr of bins you mean?
[16:28] <AndyEsser> fsphil: ooof... that slows things down a bit ;)
[16:28] <fsphil> SM0ULC-Reb: same thing :p
[16:29] <Vaizki> Look at a smaller span
[16:30] <Vaizki> And enable IF display
[16:30] <fsphil> it's easier to identify signals with a bit more frequency resolution
[16:30] <richardeoin> Laurenceb_: yes, pre-stretched rather slowly overnight
[16:30] <fsphil> esp. hab, as they tend to drift a bit - usually gives them away vs. local qrm
[16:30] <AndyEsser> well I'm not going to be able to decode anything anyway - was just trying to see if I can pick it up
[16:31] <Vaizki> good time to learn...
[16:31] <richardeoin> AndyEsser: you should see a thin line of 10 'pips' before the main transmission starts
[16:31] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: it's not that
[16:31] <Laurenceb_> <richardeoin> seems to have worked really nicely, nice high altitude too
[16:31] <Upu> !dial UBSEDS13
[16:31] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Latest dials for 03UBSEDS13 10(ac0a): 03434.5988 MHz, 434.599 MHz, 434.5994 MHz, 434.599299 MHz, 434.5982 MHz, 434.599363 MHz, 434.599319 MHz
[16:32] <fsphil> probably interference then
[16:32] <AndyEsser> RDP breaks the audio drivers on Windows
[16:32] <Upu> would you think of the repeaters...
[16:32] <AndyEsser> so I can't route the audio into fldigi anyway
[16:32] <fsphil> RDP audio is awful
[16:32] <fsphil> you can turn off RDP audio and just to it all locally
[16:32] <fsphil> er, remotely
[16:32] <Laurenceb_> <richardeoin> is it AAA lithium powered? Whats the expected battery life?
[16:32] <fsphil> depends on your point of view :)
[16:32] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: what resolution do you run? 8k?
[16:33] <AndyEsser> fsphil: no I mean, the devices don't appear installed at all when using an RDP session - the Virtual cable input/output devices disappear completely
[16:33] <AndyEsser> I'll be home in an hour anyway
[16:33] <fsphil> oh that's odd
[16:33] <Vaizki> if you want remote operation use SDR Console
[16:34] <richardeoin> Laurenceb_: AA lithium. payload weight is ~21g
[16:34] <Vaizki> It works wonderfully
[16:34] <fsphil> doesn't look like this one is going above my horizon
[16:34] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: that's very annoying... have the same problem with my virtual-box-machine... hade to run teamviewer
[16:34] <fsphil> you need higher altitude floats richardeoin :)
[16:34] <Laurenceb_> oh wow
[16:34] <AndyEsser> I'm moving my SDR etc anyway over to linux soon anyway
[16:34] <Laurenceb_> <richardeoin> very very cool then
[16:34] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: cheers
[16:34] <Laurenceb_> thats much heavier than B-64
[16:34] <Laurenceb_> that was 11grams iirc
[16:35] <Laurenceb_> did you say you have 1.4m wide film?
[16:35] <AndyEsser> SM0ULC-Reb: Screen res? Or FFT res?
[16:35] <michal_f> !flights
[16:35] <SpacenearUS> 03michal_f: Current flights: 03UBSEDS13 434.600 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(ac0a)
[16:35] <richardeoin> Laurenceb_: more payload is the advantage of the thicker film I think
[16:35] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: fft res, sorry
[16:35] <AndyEsser> 1048576
[16:35] <Upu> whats the transmit interval
[16:36] <Upu> ?
[16:36] <richardeoin> fsphil: will do my best :P
[16:36] <Laurenceb_> <richardeoin> I think its more that you have wider film, leo only had <90cm
[16:36] <fsphil> ;)
[16:36] <richardeoin> we could only get 60cm wide film
[16:36] <Laurenceb_> oh??
[16:36] <Laurenceb_> how is it flying so high O_o
[16:37] <fsphil> AndyEsser: that's actually quite high. it should be clearer than that
[16:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> 4 minute cycle at present Upu
[16:37] <richardeoin> 3 panels of 60cm wide film sealed together to make a 1.8m square Laurenceb_
[16:37] <AndyEsser> fsphil: that's what it's on now - not when you told me to update it
[16:37] <Laurenceb_> oh wow
[16:37] <richardeoin> two of those, and then seal a 1.4m circle from that
[16:37] <fsphil> AndyEsser: aah
[16:37] <fsphil> don't mind me. assumed that's what the screenshot was
[16:37] <Laurenceb_> <richardeoin> be interesting to see how low the leak rate is :D
[16:38] <richardeoin> the up-down seals end up re-enforcing the envelope it seams
[16:38] <daveake> "it seams" :)
[16:38] <AndyEsser> fsphil: nah screenshot was 'default' 32k or something
[16:38] <richardeoin> pun not intended
[16:38] <daveake> shame
[16:39] <richardeoin> I just forgot the first half of the sentence
[16:39] <fsphil> keep it together :)
[16:39] <Laurenceb_> joining 3 gores without leaks is a pita, be very interesting to see if you have nailed it :D
[16:39] <daveake> not nailing it would help
[16:39] <Laurenceb_> very impressive performance so far :)
[16:39] <daveake> I should go
[16:39] Action: AndyEsser hands daveake his coat
[16:39] <daveake> ta
[16:39] <richardeoin> yes, I was worried about the points where 3 gores join Laurenceb_
[16:40] <fsphil> your fate has been sealed
[16:40] <AndyEsser> it seams inevitable
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[16:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh its driffting
[16:40] <richardeoin> they looked good visually, proof will be in the pudding
[16:41] <richardeoin> by much Geoff-G8DHE
[16:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> only suddenly noticed that the pips had shifted 500Hz
[16:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> to the upper side
[16:41] <AndyEsser> !dial UBSEDS13
[16:41] <SpacenearUS> 03AndyEsser: Latest dials for 03UBSEDS13 10(ac0a): 03434.5998 MHz, 434.599 MHz, 434.5989 MHz, 434.599376 MHz, 434.5982 MHz, 434.5994 MHz, 434.5988 MHz, 434.599299 MHz
[16:42] <richardeoin> yeah, that's reasonable for -30
[16:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh yes radio temp is now down
[16:42] <Vaizki> love the 1Hz resolution on the dials
[16:42] <richardeoin> I made one drift by 10kHz before it died in the cold chamber
[16:42] <AndyEsser> heh
[16:42] <AndyEsser> o0o I see Upu has picked it up
[16:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> hopefully it should stay there now till external temp changes
[16:43] <UpuWork> yeah been in a meeting so only just turned my kit on
[16:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> but will make B/W bigger just incase!
[16:44] <AndyEsser> anyway, enough fidfling for now
[16:44] <AndyEsser> will try and grab it when I'm home in a bit for an hour
[16:44] <AndyEsser> if I find it, I'll leave everything running whilst I'm out
[16:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh it suddenly jumped low again
[16:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh wow temperature dropping rapidly
[16:51] <garymortimer> Head off to Camerons and use their heat sealer tell them I sent you ;-)
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[17:04] Nick change: michal_f -> michal_f_work
[17:15] <richardeoin> !dial UBSEDS13
[17:15] <SpacenearUS> 03richardeoin: Latest dials for 03UBSEDS13 10(ac0a): 03434.5961 MHz, 434.59536 MHz, 434.596053 MHz, 434.59601 MHz, 434.596 MHz, 434.5988 MHz, 434.596938 MHz, 434.599132 MHz, 434.599 MHz, 434.5994 MHz
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[17:25] <Vaizki> where does the dial freq come from if I pipe audio to fldigi?
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[17:29] <Geoff-G8DHE_> It doesn't thats why you get some silly figures at times, you can tell dl-fldigi to display real frequency, and if its linked to Rx then it will display correctly
[17:31] <AndyEsser> only thing even close to standing out from the noise is 434.609 :(
[17:31] <Vaizki> what radio?
[17:31] <AndyEsser> RTL-SDR
[17:31] <AndyEsser> nothing fancy
[17:31] <AndyEsser> did think it might be a bit optimistic at this range
[17:31] <Vaizki> have you done a ppm correction check?
[17:31] <AndyEsser> Come again for Big Fudge?
[17:32] <Vaizki> your dongle frequency is usually off by some amount
[17:32] <Vaizki> check the offset against a known beacon like BBC radio
[17:32] <AndyEsser> ah
[17:33] <Vaizki> ppm = parts per million
[17:35] <AndyEsser> O yea, I knew what PPM stood for - just wasn't sure what you meant
[17:35] <Vaizki> so 1 ppm at 400MHz = 400Hz off
[17:35] <Vaizki> Right
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[17:35] <AndyEsser> Shall do that at some point :)
[17:35] <AndyEsser> thanks
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[17:39] <Vaizki> then configure it in sdr# etc...
[17:39] <Vaizki> so you don't have to manually change it
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[17:40] <AndyEsser> O so you can actually offset it in the properties? nice
[17:40] <Vaizki> Yes amazing add two numbers feature
[17:40] <Vaizki> Such UX :)
[17:40] <AndyEsser> ¬¬
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[17:54] <AndyEsser> What sort of bandwidth do normal FM radio stations use?
[17:54] <AndyEsser> (Say BBC Radio 1)
[17:55] <Oddstr13> lemme fire up SDR# and see if I have any stations saved
[17:56] <eroomde> AndyEsser: 25kHz usually does it fine iirc
[17:57] <Oddstr13> 250kHz on the WFM stations I have saved in SDR#
[17:57] <eroomde> sorry 250khz is what i meant, dropped a zero
[17:58] <Oddstr13> I seem to remeber seeing everything between 100kHz and 300kHz varying between stations, depending on stereo and such
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[17:58] <eroomde> there is a rule called Carson's Rule (i think?) which lets you estimate fm bandwidth
[17:58] <eroomde> it's 2*(bandwidth+peak_freq)
[17:59] <eroomde> so i guess 2 audio channels is about 50khz (2 x 25khz)
[18:00] <eroomde> and the sidebands are probably a bit over 50khz either side of the carrier
[18:00] <eroomde> so that's, very roughly, 2*(50+50) = 200khz. you probably want to actually look up the numbers
[18:00] <eroomde> i'm doing first order anal extraction figures
[18:01] <AndyEsser> good lord it's noisy
[18:01] Action: AndyEsser 's ears hurt
[18:01] <Oddstr13> yea, you'll have to tune it quite a bit to get decent reception on WFM with the RTL-SDR
[18:02] <Oddstr13> also, the antenna that usually comes with those dongles is way too short for the broadcast band
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[18:05] <PE2BZ> dial UBSEDS13
[18:05] <PE2BZ> !dial UBSEDS13
[18:05] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Latest dials for 03UBSEDS13 10(ac0a): 03434.593888 MHz, 434.59431 MHz, 434.5936 MHz, 434.5961 MHz, 434.594202 MHz, 434.5937 MHz, 434.594036 MHz, 434.5938 MHz
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[18:07] <ioc> hi
[18:07] <PE2BZ> hi !
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[18:10] <Oddstr13> any suggested reading when it comes to reducing RFI from Ethernet cables?
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[18:20] <Odd^Satomi> hm.. my bouncer seems to have timed out on me..
[18:20] <Odd^Satomi> did I miss anything?
[18:20] <SA6BSS-Mike> nop
[18:21] <Odd^Satomi> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-20_19-20-57.png
[18:21] <Odd^Satomi> seem familiar? ^^
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[18:22] <Oddstr13> aha
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[18:22] <Oddstr13> server died, that's why
[18:22] <SA6BSS-Mike> Oddstr13: if u having problem at hf freq use standard refi clip on ferites if rfi at vhf uhf try wind the cables on 114-43 ferite rings
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[18:24] <Oddstr13> oh, you know.. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-20_19-24-01.png
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[18:24] <Oddstr13> some of that is probably from the PC / USB too tho
[18:25] <SA6BSS-Mike> shitt !!!
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[18:26] <fsphil> Oddstr13: that looks like DAB, in your first screenshot
[18:26] <Oddstr13> fsphil: indeed ^^
[18:27] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-20_19-27-10.png
[18:28] <Oddstr13> the noise is bad enough to trip the RX on my PMR radios at times
[18:28] <russss> yeah those are DAB blocks 12C and 12D
[18:29] <russss> according to my database of interesting frequencies
[18:29] <G4AIU-Eugene> help
[18:29] <Oddstr13> russss: oh, do share! :3
[18:30] <Oddstr13> I should make myself such a DB too
[18:30] <russss> I need to tidy it up and publish it at some point but it has some stuff in it that I'm not sure I'd advertise I've been listening to
[18:30] <Oddstr13> I do have a fair amount saved in gqrx under linux
[18:31] <Oddstr13> russss: police radio, eh? :P
[18:31] <russss> that's all encrypted
[18:31] <russss> and hence boring
[18:31] <Oddstr13> until recently, that stuff was plain NFM here
[18:31] <Oddstr13> it's been a while since I've seen any of it
[18:31] <russss> the GQRX bookmark file format is quite good, ~/.config/gqrx/bookmarks.csv
[18:32] <russss> I have some fairly ugly tools for reading/populating that from a database
[18:32] <Oddstr13> yea, I just have to locate it from windows, in which I am currently booted :P
[18:32] <fsphil> it was strange hearing police radio in the US
[18:32] <fsphil> quite dull most of the time
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[18:33] <Oddstr13> hehe
[18:33] <russss> apparently they are now going to move emergency services in the UK away from TETRA and onto some kind of LTE network which they haven't really worked out yet.
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[18:34] <Oddstr13> oh, right, where was the TETRA at again?
[18:35] <russss> ~390MHz
[18:35] <Oddstr13> yep, there it is
[18:36] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-20_19-36-34.png
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[18:38] <Oddstr13> also around 407MHz it seems
[18:39] <fsphil> my old place was quite near a tetra transmitter. it was really annoying
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[18:39] <Oddstr13> yea, they are rather strong signals here too
[18:39] <fsphil> took a while to figure out why my FCD couldn't hear anything when plugged into the colinear
[18:40] <Oddstr13> hah, I bet it was completely deaf
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[18:41] <Oddstr13> due to the big guy next door screaming too loudly
[18:41] <Oddstr13> any idea of what the signal on 480 MHz is? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-20_19-41-33.png
[18:42] <Oddstr13> USB or something?
[18:43] <russss> that's in the UHF TV range
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[18:45] <russss> it's not DVB though. It could be PAL but I thought we got rid of that. Or it could be strong local interference.
[18:46] <fsphil> spot on 480, could indeed be usb
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[18:47] <Oddstr13> now this looks a bit more interesting
[18:47] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-20_19-47-34.png
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[18:49] <fsphil> the old analogue TV stations used VSB, basically AM with the lower sideband partially filtered out
[18:49] <Oddstr13> ...that would be RFI from my main monitor, moving on :P
[18:49] <fsphil> oooh try plotting what's on your screen ;)
[18:50] <fsphil> not sure how well that would work with LCD screens
[18:50] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-20_19-50-04.png
[18:50] <russss> 470-790MHz is all TV stuff
[18:50] <Oddstr13> changes rather significantly depending on what's on the screen
[18:51] <russss> so if you've got anything which isn't DVB there (and DVB should make itself pretty obvious) then it's likely to be interference
[18:51] <Oddstr13> I actually yet have to find the DVB-T signals
[18:51] <fsphil> if your bandwidth is too narrow you might miss them
[18:51] <fsphil> they'd just look like elevated noise unless you happen to find the edge
[18:52] <fsphil> you'll need to be showing 10+ mhz
[18:52] <Oddstr13> current sample rate is 16 MSPS
[18:53] <fsphil> I captured some DVB with the hackrf while in london, been meaning to try playing it back to my freeview box
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> I detect a gas leak
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[18:54] <Laurenceb_> baro pressure is fluctuating badly
[18:54] <fsphil> well i did have a large dinner...
[18:54] <Oddstr13> I assume DVB-T looks rather like DAB, just wider?
[18:54] <Oddstr13> haha
[18:54] <fsphil> yeah
[18:54] <fsphil> 8mhz wide iirc
[18:54] <SA6BSS-Mike> trajectory for the next 60 h http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/150448_trj001.gif
[18:55] <russss> http://www.sigidwiki.com/wiki/Digital_Video_Broadcasting_%E2%80%94_Terrestrial_(DVB-T)
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[18:58] <Oddstr13> I mean, I know the DVB-T reception here is absolutly terrible, but I did think I'd be able to locate it on the waterfall atleast
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[19:00] <Oddstr13> going thru two amplifiers from an antenna on the roof, we get intermittent reception at best
[19:00] <Vaizki> why 2
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[19:01] <Laurenceb_> weird that pressure is going down and altitude is constant
[19:01] <Oddstr13> no idea, that's how the setup was when we moved here
[19:01] <Laurenceb_> maybe some london thermal IR anomaly
[19:01] <Vaizki> O
[19:01] <fsphil> I knew someone with a few amplifiers, and was getting bad reception. they wanted to put in a third and I told them that was silly
[19:01] <Oddstr13> we don't use the TV at all due to the bad signals
[19:02] <fsphil> they did it, and it worked. so I looked a bit silly :)
[19:02] <fsphil> can only think that their DVB receiver was deaf
[19:02] <Oddstr13> currently serves as a screen for the XBOX and a NUC
[19:03] <Vaizki> you might have a selective amplifier in place that is actually filtering out the channels
[19:04] <Vaizki> if it was put in place a long time ago
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[19:04] <Vaizki> and is configured to amp up the old analog channels only
[19:05] <Oddstr13> I'll go see if I can find it
[19:05] <mfa298> there's always the fun of putting the signal amplifier in the right place. i.e. not 1m from the TV when you have lots of crappy "coax" between the antenna and amplifier
[19:05] <Vaizki> Unless you live in a god forsaken backwater you should have a mountain sized dvb-t signal on the spectrum
[19:06] <SA6BSS-Mike> right now I ?m fitting f-connector to a lna for my uhf antenna and going to set it up as a mastmount amp for my tv-antenna
[19:06] <richardeoin> Laurenceb_: I'm quite confused about the pressure too
[19:08] <Oddstr13> one of them says TRIAX on the box (wall mounted, stuck to the cable)
[19:08] <SA6BSS-Mike> richardeoin: is it using a qualatex 36" ?
[19:08] <Oddstr13> the other box is a wall-wart style plug with antenna in and out, with a gain adjust
[19:08] <Oddstr13> can't find that one at the moment
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[19:08] <richardeoin> the temperature reading from the MS5607 has been changing over the last hour too
[19:09] <richardeoin> SA6BSS-Mike: no, custom envelope
[19:09] <SA6BSS-Mike> ah ok
[19:09] <fsphil> triax is a general telly-stuff brand
[19:09] <SA6BSS-Mike> got some info on it?
[19:09] <mfa298> half the tv "coax" used in the UK seems to be the bottom type in http://www.wrightsaerials.co.uk/articles/images/Coax%20cable%20quality%20fig%201.jpg
[19:09] <mfa298> where the braid tends to be more air than copper
[19:09] <fsphil> the brown stuff
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[19:11] <Oddstr13> uh, that dosn't look so good..
[19:11] <mfa298> I swapped some of that to urm70 at home once and the difference is shocking (and that was only ~5m around the flat)
[19:13] <Oddstr13> http://uk.farnell.com/productimages/large/en_GB/1769506-40.jpg yea, that looks more like what I'd expect to find innside a TV cable :P
[19:13] <Vaizki> Oddstr13 take pics of the amps, someone may be able to help then :)
[19:14] <Vaizki> Could also be a connector gone bad
[19:14] <Oddstr13> I guess I'll go dig in the roof-high stack of boxes :P
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[19:15] <Oddstr13> second box from the top, that was easier than expected.
[19:16] <Vaizki> sounds scary
[19:17] <Vaizki> We have a single antenna + amp serving 5 large detached houses :)
[19:17] <Oddstr13> no-brand antenna amplifier 47-862 MHz, 75 Ohm impedance, 20 dB gain, with 10dB gain control, screening factor: >= 75dB(470MHz)
[19:17] <fsphil> well, it's official now, http://hackaday.com/2016/01/20/microchip-to-acquire-atmel-for-3-56-billion/
[19:18] <SM0ULC-Reb> any sdr-expoerts? i-q = usb, i+q = lsb, right?
[19:19] <fsphil> I've heard that, but when I tried it didn't work
[19:19] <Vaizki> I can't get my head around that idea
[19:23] <fsphil> just tried in grc. i+q definitly isn't lsb or usb
[19:23] <fsphil> got a signal at -600hz and +1000hz, both appear in the output
[19:25] <SM0ULC-Reb> mm, should play more with gnuradio... just trying to read up on the theory..
[19:27] <fsphil> I've used two multipliers and a low pass filter to make a crude LSB/USB receiver
[19:27] <fsphil> it worked quite well
[19:28] <Laurenceb_> richardeoin: is the payload inside the envelope?
[19:29] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-20_20-28-38.png
[19:30] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-20_20-30-00.png
[19:30] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-20_20-30-33.png
[19:31] <Oddstr13> Vaizki: pix of the amplifiers :P
[19:32] <Oddstr13> as to the "backwater", I do live in a rather remote area, yes :P
[19:33] <SM0ULC-Reb> fsphil: maybe should go and fire up gnuradio and try to learn...
[19:33] <Oddstr13> would still expect to see traces of DVB-T signals
[19:33] <fsphil> gnuradio companion is a great toy
[19:34] <Oddstr13> fsphil: what's your setup with GRC?
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[19:34] <Oddstr13> as in, operating system and such
[19:34] <fsphil> fedora linux
[19:34] <Oddstr13> okay
[19:34] <fsphil> I normally use it with the hackrf or airspy
[19:35] <Oddstr13> it hasn't been quite cooperative in Archlinux for me :P
[19:36] <fsphil> never had any huge problems with it, but then I'm not doing advanced stuff in it
[19:36] <fsphil> some of the blocks are not well documented
[19:37] <Oddstr13> never got the WFM receiver example working, don't remember quite what didn't work
[19:37] <Oddstr13> it's a while since I've had a look at it
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[19:38] <richardeoin> Laurenceb_: no, hanging a little bit below
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[19:39] <eroomde> save that for private messages
[19:39] <fsphil> ba dum
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> richardeoin: weird, maybe the pressure sensor is just too cold
[19:41] <Oddstr13> eroomde: "that" being general SDR stuff?
[19:42] <eroomde> Oddstr13: no, i apologise, i was making a silly joke about something richardeoin says
[19:42] <eroomde> you are, of course, extremely welcome to carry on talking about SDR stuff with is very on-topic here. And you don;t have to care about what I say anyway! I apologise for causing confusion.
[19:42] <Oddstr13> just checking :P
[19:43] Action: Oddstr13 carries on spamming screenshots
[19:43] <fsphil> I've put my psu and scope on a shelf. there is lots of room left. this is dangerious for my bank account
[19:43] <eroomde> teehee
[19:43] <eroomde> specan's are really useful
[19:43] <fsphil> mmm
[19:43] <Oddstr13> didn't find anything looking like DVB-T scanning the suggested frequency range at 1MHz intervals, but I did find this above: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/ShareX/2016/01/2016-01-20_20-41-29.png
[19:43] <fsphil> siggen would be handy too
[19:43] <eroomde> a nice bench multimeter
[19:43] <eroomde> yeah def
[19:44] <eroomde> an rf siggen and a function gen
[19:44] <eroomde> loads of good stuff
[19:44] <fsphil> Oddstr13: mobile phone stuff
[19:44] <Oddstr13> ah, right
[19:44] <Vaizki> Are those amps actually powered?
[19:44] <fsphil> bench meter would be handy actually
[19:45] <Oddstr13> Vaizki: yea
[19:45] <fsphil> probably cheaper than the siggen or specan
[19:45] <eroomde> yes
[19:45] <eroomde> if you can get an hp/agilent 34401 on ebay, you will be happy forever
[19:45] <eroomde> it's the industry standard. There is a replacement now (34461) but there are not any second hand ones floating around atm
[19:46] <eroomde> keighly also make super good bench dmms
[19:46] <eroomde> keithley 2001
[19:46] <Oddstr13> fsphil: I wish I had a dedicated workbench and shelves for stuff like that :P
[19:46] <eroomde> 2015
[19:46] <eroomde> well all sorts
[19:46] <Oddstr13> I'll get there.. some day.. hopefully sooner rather than later :P
[19:46] <eroomde> Oddstr13: i did it last week
[19:46] <eroomde> got a desk and shelves
[19:47] <eroomde> it's excellent
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[19:49] <eroomde> keightly 2002 if you can find one....
[19:49] <eroomde> you can count the electrons coming in individually
[19:50] <fsphil> http://i.imgur.com/SXWxWcM.jpg
[19:50] <fsphil> I got the shelves idea from eroomde
[19:50] <fsphil> a little too deep for my desk but it's workable
[19:51] <fsphil> £400 seems to be the average for the 34401A
[19:51] <eroomde> but you've got a high first shelf
[19:51] <eroomde> so you can sort of use the desk spce
[19:51] <eroomde> space*
[19:51] <fsphil> yeah it had to be high up or there'd be no room
[19:51] <eroomde> same
[19:52] <fsphil> I've got the first shelf at about head height, so looking straight at the scope
[19:52] <fsphil> need a better light
[19:53] <eroomde> the keithly 2000 is similar
[19:53] <eroomde> 6.5 digit
[19:54] <eroomde> tbh if you don't calibrate it the last digit is a bit circumspect
[19:54] <eroomde> though useful still for relative measurements
[19:56] <fsphil> it would be useful to have at least one well calibrated thing
[20:03] <Vaizki> fsphil: what is that PSU?
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[20:04] <Laurenceb_> UBSEDS13 was sucked into a black hole
[20:04] <fsphil> Vaizki: hameg hm7042-5
[20:05] <eroomde> the hameg PSUs are really nice
[20:05] <fsphil> yeah. this was quite a change from the chinese things I used before
[20:06] <Vaizki> too nice for my wallet :O
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[20:06] <fsphil> I can adjust it without the output going crazy
[20:07] <Oddstr13> shouldn't I be able to see at least some of the 1kW DVB-T transmissions from a ~20km distance, even tho it isn't a direct line of sight?
[20:08] <SM0ULC-Reb> fsphil: what kind of dumb-ass-error am I doing when i download flowgraphs and the blocks are unconnected?
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[20:09] <fsphil> not sure, never seen that happen before
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[20:11] <SM0ULC-Reb> fsphil: mm, pre 3.7-cpde...
[20:11] <SM0ULC-Reb> code
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[20:13] <Laurenceb_> microchip is buying atmel
[20:13] <Laurenceb_> inb4 avr discontinued
[20:14] <mfa298> only an hour behind the crowd there
[20:14] <mfa298> 19:17 < fsphil> well, it's official now, http://hackaday.com/2016/01/20/microchip-to-acquire-atmel-for-3-56-billion/
[20:15] <Oddstr13> Laurenceb_: yea... time to stock up! xD
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[20:15] <Oddstr13> I'd say that is very unlikely, due to the popularity of the arduino platform tho
[20:16] <fsphil> new AVR feature: memory banking!
[20:16] <Laurenceb_> arduino is a tiny market
[20:16] <daveake> :)
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[20:19] <mfa298> if only the arduino market would shrink entirely and people would learn to write real code on the microcontrollers.
[20:24] <tweetBot> @G8DHE: HAB: UBSEDS13 flying 434.594MHz Contestia 16/1000 Floater, Euro trackers reqd! https://t.co/lsr2G5Kzvg #HAB #UKHAS
[20:25] <Vaizki> just send it up north and I'll track it
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[20:31] <SM0ULC-Reb> fsphil: got some ssb-exmple to run in gnuradio. at least some progress.. :)
[20:31] <fsphil> nice. how do they do it?
[20:34] <SM0ULC-Reb> fsphil: http://www.oz9aec.net/index.php/grc-examples
[20:35] <fsphil> ah, developer of gqrx
[20:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> Interesting prediction for UBSEDS13! http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=6862aa37181751387ebcbda79b3824ecd47e627f
[20:36] <fsphil> does something similar to what I did, except he's got a band pass filter with compex taps
[20:36] <fsphil> complex*
[20:38] <SM0ULC-Reb> i guess this is the one that use the same method as keenerds code, http://www.george-smart.co.uk/wiki/File:GNURadioCompanion_WeaverSSBDemod.png
[20:38] <Vaizki> fsphil: btw if you are looking for a cheap specan and rf siggen, some of the gsm test sets that have flooded the market can do a semi decent job of it
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[20:39] <fsphil> SM0ULC-Reb: that last one is a bit weird, splitting the complex signal into the I and Q part and mixing separately
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[20:39] <SM0ULC-Reb> fsphil: right
[20:40] <fsphil> not sure how just adding the two parts will remove the negative or positive frequencies
[20:40] <fsphil> Vaizki: true. I got my agilent psu like that
[20:42] <Vaizki> like this for example.. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rohde-Schwarz-CMU200-Spectrum-RF-Audio-Analyzer-Generator-980-VAT-Tax-/221772748302?hash=item33a2af960e:g:FOUAAOSwrklVVNOx
[20:42] <Vaizki> has specan, 2 rf siggens, audio analysis, power metering
[20:42] <SM0ULC-Reb> fsphil: the only thing i'm sure about is that i don't understand the audio ouput from rtl_fm in ssb mode :)
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[20:43] <Vaizki> the price on that ebay jobbie is a bit steep though, I got these for 1/3 of that..
[20:43] <fsphil> Vaizki: that's quite a thing
[20:43] <Vaizki> although the one listed has CMU-B17 option for I/Q interface which is apparently highly desirable and I don't have that..
[20:44] <fsphil> SM0ULC-Reb: last I looked at that code it was doing the + and - thing too. could try tuning 400hz away from a carrier and trying it in USB and LSB mode, see if it actually makes any difference
[20:44] <fsphil> should only hear it in one or the other
[20:44] <Vaizki> now that said, those boxes are meant for GSM, EDGE, CDMA etc testing, so they have very advanced measurement personalities to do testing for them
[20:44] <Vaizki> they have a "basic" mode for any rf work but the features are limited and the gui clunky as hell
[20:45] <Vaizki> so no it's not as usable as a real specan but it's basically half a lab in one box
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[20:47] <Vaizki> the reason why they're cheap is that they don't do LTE and many don't even do W-CDMA with the current specs
[20:51] <fsphil> things move quickly in the mobile phone world
[20:53] <Vaizki> also lots of anritsu boxes around that are nicer to use I hear, like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Anritsu-MT8820A-W-CDMA-GSM-Radio-Communication-Analyzer-30MHz-2-7GHz-/262246870684?hash=item3d0f21ae9c:g:DhsAAOSwwPhWljrm
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[20:54] <Vaizki> from Finland too! :)
[20:55] Action: Oddstr13 throws a nokia around - dents the wooden wall
[20:55] <SM0ULC-Reb> Nokia ruled :)
[20:56] <Vaizki> well then they died and I ended up with a bunch of cheap test equipment..
[20:56] <SM0ULC-Reb> :)
[20:56] <Vaizki> that's why the market is flooded here
[20:57] <Oddstr13> I think this is like my dad's 2nd cellphone: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Nokia_5110.jpg/800px-Nokia_5110.jpg
[20:57] <SM0ULC-Reb> Been some demos of 5G-stuff around here. Going up in frequency.. :)
[20:57] <Vaizki> like those CMU200s were more than 60k USD new, I bought 2 for a total of 850 euros
[20:57] <Oddstr13> looks very simmilar anyways
[20:59] <tweetBot> @MX5AKA: UBSEDS13 at Dover heading for Europe - Trackers needed 434.594 MHz USB #hamradio #hamr @UKSEDS https://t.co/39Wxv9vXWu
[21:03] <Vaizki> anyway, I think that in the UK auctions at Bridgend they also sold off a huge bunch of CMU200s so there should be some in the UK market as well. if you want to know more about them just ping me for specific options etc..
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[21:05] <Oddstr13> I should find my dad's first mobile phone, and see if it still works
[21:06] <Oddstr13> pretty sure it's a NMT-450
[21:06] <SA6BSS-Mike> still have my old 8210 in a drawer
[21:06] <Oddstr13> said phone needs a rather big drawer :P
[21:08] <Vaizki> my dad's first "mobile" phone was this http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc393/lubars/1234/IMG_0944.jpg
[21:08] <Vaizki> it was fixed car install of course but sort of mobile :)
[21:08] <Oddstr13> this one looks kinda like it; http://company.nokia.com/en/news/media-library/image-gallery/item/mobira-talkman-nmt450-portable-car-phone-1984
[21:09] <Oddstr13> photobucket is giving me a down for maintenance
[21:09] <Vaizki> ah yes lovely old nokia NMT
[21:09] <Vaizki> photobucket works for me..
[21:10] <Vaizki> the phone in the picture is a nokia ARP phone.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoradiopuhelin
[21:13] <Vaizki> I think we had it real good in the nordics with NMT450.. even roaming between countries
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[21:13] <Oddstr13> on a related note; any recommendations when it comes to CB radios?
[21:13] <Vaizki> don't?
[21:13] <Oddstr13> but I wana! :P
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[21:15] <Vaizki> you want to talk to truckers? :)
[21:16] <Oddstr13> not really :P
[21:16] <eroomde> being a trucker always appealed
[21:16] <Vaizki> it's appalled
[21:17] <eroomde> loading up and then just setting out for bratislava or something
[21:17] <Vaizki> load up on the cream too
[21:17] <Oddstr13> but I kinda want to try to see if it would be possible to establish a 2-way data link of sorts with the UK, connecting UKHASnet segments that are far away from eachother
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[21:18] <Vaizki> Oddstr13: like the internet does?
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[21:18] <Oddstr13> yes, but everyone and their grandmother has internet :P
[21:18] <Vaizki> you mean running ssb on cb?
[21:19] <Oddstr13> yea
[21:19] <Oddstr13> 12W SSB or some such
[21:19] <Vaizki> not sure if that's allowed here..
[21:19] <Oddstr13> pretty sure it's allowed in the EU regulations
[21:20] <Vaizki> we are quick to implement restrictions and slow to remove them
[21:21] <Oddstr13> according to wikipedia, SSB was allowed on 27th June 2014
[21:21] <Vaizki> ah yes 12W ssb is allowed here too.. whee
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[21:22] <Oddstr13> also, why rely on the internet, which might or might not work? ;)
[21:22] <Oddstr13> a second data channel is allways nice
[21:22] Action: Oddstr13 should really go get a HAM license...
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[21:25] <Oddstr13> wikipedia article even states that packet radio is legal on the cb bands in the UK... no references on either claims tho, so I'd check with Ofcom or wherever you'd find that information for the UK
[21:28] <Oddstr13> I'd actually use CB for general comunication around the farm, if I had radios for it
[21:28] <Vaizki> http://www.thunderpole.co.uk/mobile-cbs/president-grant-ii-premium.html
[21:28] <Oddstr13> in the tractors and such
[21:28] <Vaizki> maybe that would be a good CB if you want a 12W SSB ready-made box
[21:29] <Vaizki> not a cheap-as-chips model though
[21:29] <Oddstr13> the price isn't terrifying either
[21:30] <Oddstr13> handheld hunting radios go for around the same
[21:30] <Vaizki> and 12W is a bit of a jump from the good old 4W
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[21:31] <Oddstr13> yea, the hunting radios are 5W NFM, around 140MHz
[21:32] <Oddstr13> 12W SSB on 27MHz would have a decent range I'd imagine :P
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[21:32] <Oddstr13> maybe not night time tho :P
[21:33] <Oddstr13> CB bands and the likes tend to go silent around sunset
[21:33] <Vaizki> you could just get an amp for your hackrf and run it with that? :)
[21:33] <Oddstr13> hehe
[21:33] <Oddstr13> that would be the not-even-slightly-legal route to go
[21:33] <Vaizki> why?
[21:34] <Oddstr13> CB band requires equipment made for it
[21:34] <Oddstr13> no tampering either, not even antennas, if you're going 100% by the rules
[21:34] <SA6BSS-Mike> the packet radio is on swedens ssb calling freq 27.235
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[21:35] <Oddstr13> channel 24? :P
[21:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes :)
[21:35] <Vaizki> hmm our regulations say a +3dB antenna is allowed
[21:36] <Vaizki> I mean an antenna that gives +3dB additional gain compared to standard antenna that came with device..
[21:37] <SA6BSS-Mike> go with an 26-30Mhz all mode radio, then you can listen to and talk on cb band and listen on 10m hamband
[21:37] <Vaizki> anyway you are right, even here the regulation is that the device is license exempt if it works ONLY on those frequencies
[21:37] <Oddstr13> yea
[21:37] <Vaizki> so for an all-mode radio or hackrf you need a radio amateur license
[21:38] <Guest15104> Oddstr13, 2002 UK CB Packet Radio regulations http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/topics/cb/documents/cbnovwta.htm
[21:38] <SA6BSS-Mike> or if your into radio go with an old hamradio 0,1 - 30Mhz
[21:38] <SA6BSS-Mike> just about the same price
[21:38] <Oddstr13> are you even able to legaly transmit on the CB bands with a ham license?
[21:39] <SA6BSS-Mike> switching on the radio, tuning 27.265 :) there is said to be some aurora
[21:39] <SA6BSS-Mike> 27,235
[21:39] <SA6BSS-Mike> nop
[21:40] <SA6BSS-Mike> its not allowed to tx with ham gear on cb band
[21:40] <SA6BSS-Mike> but there is no licend required to us a radio on the cb band
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[21:41] <russss> I think this comes back to the slightly convoluted EU regs for this. (It probably wasn't allowed in the days of type approval, but that's no longer the situation)
[21:42] <SA6BSS-Mike> Soumi on 27.275
[21:42] <SA6BSS-Mike> there is inland (scandinavia) skip
[21:43] Action: Oddstr13 pulls the hackrf antenna all the way out
[21:44] <Guest15104> Oddstr13, 2014 UK CB - F2D/G2D data transmission employing audio frequency shift keying (AFSK) http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/consultations/citizens-band-radio/summary/citizen-band-radio.pdf
[21:44] <Vaizki> I should go out and put the discone back in operation
[21:44] <Vaizki> but it's like -16 again
[21:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> yeah its coold tonight
[21:44] <Vaizki> actually -20.0 now
[21:44] <mfa298> chances are if you used HAM gear on CB bands and did it within the power / frequency rules you'd get away with it, but CB usually requires type approved equipment (which is likely to mean power limits, and channelised tuning)
[21:44] <Vaizki> I am NOT going out
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[21:45] <Vaizki> so how does that work with CB, you can slap any antenna you want on your CB radio?
[21:45] <mfa298> a lot of more recent (last 10 years or so) HAM gear won't allow transmission on the CB bands out of the box, but there's usually an easy way to open it up.
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[21:46] <russss> mfa298: well, it's confusing because type approval for all radio equipment was abolished in 2000 and was replaced by harmonised EU rules which are more complex
[21:46] <Oddstr13> Guest15104: thanks for the links
[21:46] <mfa298> I think the UK rules have limits on power out of the radio, and antenna size.
[21:47] <Vaizki> right, but for example that president radio.. 12W out on SSB is legal but what kind of antenna is still legal
[21:47] <mfa298> based on some of what happens on CB I doubt anyone would care much if you're doing the right thing.
[21:47] <russss> you have to comply with IR2027, but it's not clear whether the equipment has to be designed to do this.
[21:48] <Vaizki> when I had a CB on my boat, there was a 8 meter high base station antenna at the cabin for my mom to yell out of :)
[21:49] <Vaizki> it was taken down and sold off a long time ago so no idea what it was
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[21:50] <Vaizki> ok so our regs actually everywhere say the antenna can be max 3dBi
[21:51] <Vaizki> and on 27MHz I think that's a monster antenna?
[21:52] <SA6BSS-Mike> there was just a year ago kind of a razia with PTS where ham operators had talking on air what radio and power they was using and at the same time writening in the forum the PTS had listen and documented and requierd some 10-20 operators to clarify themself
[21:53] <Vaizki> hehe
[21:53] <SA6BSS-Mike> so there is still some controll of cb_
[21:54] <Vaizki> so apparently it takes an antenna like this to make a 12W SSB CB illegal in Finland.. https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.qrz.com/b/in3fob/20140218_171702.jpg
[21:55] <Vaizki> so anything you can put up without having 3 people helping is probably ok :D
[21:55] <Upu> .hysplit UBSEDS13
[21:55] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: No HYSPLIT for that callsign
[21:55] <Upu> .hysplit add UBSEDS13
[21:55] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: You need to specify a callsign from the map
[21:55] <Upu> .hysplit add UBSEDS13
[21:55] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Added 03UBSEDS13 to defaults
[21:55] <Upu> .hysplit run UBSEDS13
[21:55] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Your job has been added to the queue. Check in a few minutes
[21:56] <Upu> .hysplit UBSEDS13
[21:56] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: HYSPLIT for 03UBSEDS13 - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/160120-21_152773_UBSEDS13.gif
[21:56] <Vaizki> argh.. again no love for the NO-SE-FI crowd :(
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[21:57] <lpokijh> Equipment used for CB must conform to either IR2027 (FM) or IR2027.2 (AM/SSB/DSB) http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/spectrum-policy-area/spectrum-management/research-guidelines-tech-info/interface-requirements/IR_2027.2.pdf
[21:57] <Vaizki> huh? where did you come from? :)
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[21:58] <Oddstr13> uh....
[21:59] <daveake> hah
[21:59] <Oddstr13> apparently someone are stalking logs or something
[21:59] <Vaizki> ok but that ofcom doc is clear, it's 12W ERP
[21:59] <daveake> We thought it was just the mailing list
[22:00] <Vaizki> the hams are letting us know that they know
[22:00] <daveake> yeah they have internetz now
[22:00] <Vaizki> if we only had secrets we could invent code words and rot13 the channel as well
[22:01] <Oddstr13> seriosly tho, contribute properly to the conversation rather than just creep in the logs, if you are passionate about the topic >.<
[22:01] <russss> Guest15104: sure, but I'm still not sure what it means to "comply" with an IR - does it have to be specifically tested with that in mind?
[22:01] <Vaizki> otoh, we are bit OT here Oddstr13 .. :)
[22:01] <russss> there is a similar argument for using Baofengs and the like on PMR or business radio frequencies.
[22:01] <mfa298> could also be someone thats already here wanting to spam but not as themselves
[22:01] <daveake> yup
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[22:02] <Vaizki> there's a lot of lurkers
[22:03] <russss> googling this just results in hundreds of forum threads with people foaming at the mouth, convinced that they're right. But not much legal backing
[22:03] <russss> ultimately it just boils down to the CE mark
[22:03] <russss> which is hardly the most transparent system
[22:03] <Oddstr13> china exprot? ;)
[22:03] <mfa298> and /whois reveals all
[22:03] <Oddstr13> export*
[22:04] <russss> Baofengs actually have a legit CE mark, which is on file with the german telecoms agency
[22:04] Nick change: lz1dev_ -> lz1dev
[22:04] <russss> I am led to believe
[22:06] <russss> ofcom could make this all a lot clearer if they weren't so averse to issuing anything which seems like legal advice
[22:07] <Vaizki> well they don't want to make a statement that will later allow you to escape their wrath
[22:07] <russss> they probably don't have enough budget for much wrath
[22:07] <mfa298> I suspect it would be difficult to ever use the Baofengs for PMR as (from memory) the rules require silly low power and non-removable antennas
[22:08] <Oddstr13> as long as you don't cause any interference, you'd probably be fine I'd say
[22:08] <Vaizki> sure that's the reality
[22:08] <Oddstr13> mfa298: yea, 0.5W with a rubber duck iirc
[22:08] <russss> yeah it's true that baofengs wouldn't hit the power requirement anyway
[22:09] <russss> but can you just buy a UK General license and use it with that? nobody appears to know.
[22:09] <Vaizki> don't kill people's wifi, car remotes or cellphones. don't make birds drop from the sky. don't pixellate reruns of Friends.
[22:11] <mfa298> reruns of Friends might be ok, but never interfer with Celebrety Big Brother or East Enders
[22:11] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03URKHAB after 037 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=URKHAB
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[22:13] <Oddstr13> russss: in general, you're not allowed to operate on bands such as PMR446 with HAM equipment, even with a HAM license
[22:13] <Oddstr13> that's how I've understood it anyways
[22:13] <Vaizki> (in Norway)
[22:13] <russss> I would just love to see the piece of legislation which says that
[22:13] <fsphil> ham license would be irrelevant in that case
[22:13] <daveake> The Baofengs Tx at a higher power than allowed for PMR446 anyway
[22:13] <Vaizki> well ok as said there is a massive EU harmonization going on with the radio regs
[22:14] <russss> yeah it's probably deep in all the EU CE-marking regs
[22:14] <Oddstr13> what fsphil said
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[22:14] <fsphil> I've used my baofengs on the business pmr frequencies at work. not expecting ofcom to come kicking in the door :)
[22:15] Action: daveake waits for ofcom to join/post/quit #ha :)
[22:15] <fsphil> lol
[22:15] <fsphil> yeah seen that earlier. that was weird
[22:15] <Oddstr13> yea, as long as you play nice, you'll probably be fine
[22:19] <Vaizki> hmmmm can frost on a window block gps signals? :O
[22:19] <Vaizki> compared to an unfrosted window that is
[22:20] <russss> "The Commission shall adopt implementing acts establishing the equivalence between notified radio interfaces and assigning a radio equipment class, details of which shall be published in the Official Journal of the European Union. Those implementing acts shall be adopted in accordance with the examination procedure referred to in Article 45(3)."
[22:20] <russss> why am I reading this. This is just awful law
[22:20] <mfa298> as fsphil said, the AR license includes a list of frequencies and powers (and some geographical limits) of what can be used. to work on the PMR/CB bands you need to be within the limits they have.
[22:21] <russss> so as far as I understand it, the various countries regulators publish interface requirements, and then the EC *may* publish an act which unifies those, which may or may not actually impose any restrictions on the CE-marking of that equipment
[22:24] <adamgreig> @_@
[22:24] <Vaizki> well for example our national regs refer directly to http://www.erodocdb.dk/docs/doc98/official/pdf/ECCDec1103.pdf
[22:25] <Vaizki> as to the motivator for allowing 12W SSB on CB
[22:26] <Vaizki> but our regulator seems to be a bit clearer on things than ofcom ...
[22:26] <mfa298> I wouldnt be surprised if part of that is making something legal that has been fairly common place throughout the EU
[22:28] <Vaizki> a single market.. should have a single set of rules for products
[22:28] <russss> ok right, then a "European Standardisation Organisation" (which is usually ETSI) produces a "harmonised standard" for the particular category of equipment, then the EC gives assent to that standard, and if that standard then gets listed in the equipment's CE declaration of conformity
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[22:28] <Vaizki> well often the CE req's will just say that must comply with the standards.. without listing them out
[22:29] <Maxell> Yes, yes. Less helium for us >:) http://i.sigio.nl/a4707d4e77c0e87eb368866ec15e9039.png
[22:29] <Vaizki> at least that is my understanding
[22:29] <russss> the declaration of conformity must list the standards I think
[22:30] <Vaizki> like the CB radios have a bunch of country settings.. but the new ones also have "EU" so you can just ignore the other ones
[22:30] <russss> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/ohqcvvej/
[22:30] <russss> that's the UV-5R's
[22:30] <russss> and e.g. 301 783-2 is "Electromagnetic compatibility and Radio spectrum Matters (ERM); Land Mobile Service; Commercially available amateur radio equipment"
[22:31] <russss> well, I'm still not 100% sure how this all joins up but I feel like I've learned something today
[22:34] <Vaizki> so the eu makes all these rules and safety regs and harmonizes.. and then you involve actual people with "skills".. end result https://www.facebook.com/vitor.prante/videos/10153525006634495/
[22:34] <russss> oh right, the IR has the harmonised standards listed in its requirements, bingo
[22:34] <Vaizki> chain of evidence complete?
[22:34] <russss> I think so yes
[22:35] <adamgreig> so is everything illegal basically?
[22:35] <russss> so you have to make sure that your device has one of those ETSI EN 301... numbers from the IR in its declaration of conformity, and if it doesn't then you're in the wrong, I think.
[22:36] <adamgreig> but that's a self certifying thing? does that apply to ISM or PMR or AR or what?
[22:36] <russss> it is a self certification but if the manufacturer incorrectly makes the declaration then it's their problem
[22:37] <adamgreig> mm
[22:37] <adamgreig> so when we fly non-CE ISM devices, that's not OK?
[22:37] <Ian_> Least said!
[22:37] <Oddstr13> Vaizki: haha, that was more spectacular than expected
[22:38] <russss> e.g., you can't (technically) use that Baofeng on business mobile radio services because they haven't declared that they comply to that set of standards.
[22:38] <russss> it needs to be "ETSI EN 301 166-2" I think, and it's not.
[22:39] <russss> my practical assessment is still "nobody cares" though
[22:39] <adamgreig> annoying though
[22:40] <Vaizki> Oddstr13: https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/12573058_1002735079765241_463837136757664680_n.jpg?oh=83925b6c5ccbcd10e5ff97354fe85939&oe=574236F5
[22:40] <Vaizki> ok enough with the OT.. :)
[22:40] <adamgreig> so incredibly complicated and then not enforced is a pain
[22:40] <Oddstr13> yea... I have yet to hear anyone actually use PMR446 after moving here, except my yonger siblings playing with some
[22:41] <Oddstr13> so, pretty sure nobody would care if I where to transmit with my HackRF on those frequencies :P
[22:41] <Vaizki> how do you know people are not using them?
[22:41] <russss> the NTX2 for example declares conformity to ETSI EN 300 220-3 which is the appropriate thing listed in IR2030
[22:42] <Oddstr13> Vaizki: I didn't say nobody where using them, I just said I have yet to see anyone else on the bands
[22:42] <Vaizki> oh ok so you're monitoring the spectrum?
[22:42] <russss> hmm, although in that particular IR it's listed as "Informative" rather than "Normative". I wonder if you're not committing an offence by *using* non-complying equipment in an unlicensed band
[22:43] <Oddstr13> I live in a rather mountainous region, and there isn't that many people living in this valley
[22:43] <Vaizki> because there's 83 DCS-settings that will keep other people's chatter off your handset?
[22:43] <russss> I found a helpful diagram. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/EKU9yWps/
[22:43] <Oddstr13> Vaizki: that dosn't matter if you set your radio to not use it, which is the default mode
[22:43] <russss> wait sorry no that's not helpful
[22:44] <Oddstr13> but, I have watched the spectrum for several hours sometimes, yea
[22:44] <Vaizki> ok.. I think they are more popular here
[22:46] <Oddstr13> I have at times heard some chatter with it in scanning mode while out driving
[22:46] <Oddstr13> I'm sure there would be a lot more chatter on the frequencies in the city
[22:47] <Oddstr13> but, the PMR446 radios arn't that good, really
[22:47] <Oddstr13> mostly regarded as kid's toys I think
[22:47] <Vaizki> you live in Hellfjord then? :)
[22:47] <Oddstr13> nope :P
[22:48] <Oddstr13> Rennebu
[22:48] <Oddstr13> JP52aq
[22:48] <Vaizki> well yes they are 500mW eirp or something, designed for short range from the start
[22:48] <mfa298> oh wow, that video from 15 mins ago.
[22:48] <Vaizki> last time I used them really was on a road-trip in the US where there were 3 cars and we had one in each car
[22:49] <Oddstr13> yea
[22:49] <Vaizki> good for that
[22:49] <mfa298> my experience is that PMR is ok for a few hundred meters in good conditions.
[22:49] <Vaizki> but probably wasn't legal to use them there ;)
[22:49] <Oddstr13> "Sikringsradio" is used quite a bit more I think
[22:50] <Oddstr13> around 140MHz, up to 5W
[22:50] <Vaizki> DMR?
[22:50] <Oddstr13> used for hunting, when gathering sheep from the mountains and such
[22:51] <Vaizki> right, but they are not license-free
[22:51] <Oddstr13> no, those arn't license free
[22:52] <Oddstr13> dosn't really take much to get the license tho
[22:52] <Oddstr13> not even sure if the license registration is enforced
[22:53] <Oddstr13> dad bought a copule of those radios last summer, and when I asked, he wasn't even aware that those required a license
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[22:54] <Vaizki> I don't think the DMR channels are harmonized across the EU so his radios might be on the wrong channels too
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[22:56] <Vaizki> btw, http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/HYT-walkie-talkie-400-440MHz-hytera-PD360-protable-radio-PD36X-PD-360-PD-368-DMR-transmitter/702854_32271731244.html
[22:56] <Vaizki> not a bad deal if the frequencies work out for you...
[23:01] <Vaizki> well I am switching over to the Zzz-band for some dreamy comms, g'nite&
[23:02] <Oddstr13> night
[23:04] <Laurenceb_> UBSEDS13 baro is very broken
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> I wonder if something cracked at low temperature
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[23:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-58 after 039 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-58
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[23:54] <AndyEsser> I'm not as think as you drunk I am
[00:00] --- Thu Jan 21 2016