highaltitude.log.20160117

[00:06] <gonzo_nb> the mud in my garden (building site) has all gone crunchy
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[00:57] <Laurenceb_> wow
[00:57] <Laurenceb_> http://pointfocus.com/images/pdfs/sun_rocket4d_holm.pdf
[00:57] <Laurenceb_> page 14
[00:58] <Laurenceb_> less than an order of magnitude away from solar thermal to orbit
[01:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-58 after 037 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-58
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[04:49] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: looks faniliar :)
[04:49] <SpeedEvil> m
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[07:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03GAS-4 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GAS-4
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[08:26] <number10> morning james - how are the exams going
[08:29] <jcoxon> yeah...
[08:29] <jcoxon> :-)
[08:29] <number10> have you finished yet?
[08:30] <jcoxon> no not yet
[08:30] <jcoxon> 1 left in march
[08:33] <SpeedEvil> It's a long road.
[08:35] <jcoxon> yeah it'll be nice when its done
[08:38] <jcoxon> they'll always be something else to do afterwards though
[08:38] <number10> yes
[08:38] <jcoxon> there'll
[08:39] <number10> you should get a little more time for yourself
[08:39] <R6mco> this GAS-4 balloon, is it 144.800 MHz APRS ?
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[08:41] <jcoxon> R6mco, yeah it looks like its coming in via APRS so should be 144.800
[08:42] <R6mco> rgr
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[08:43] <jcoxon> number10, hopefully would like to do some more ukhasnet stuff after that
[08:45] <number10> i see you had a couple of ukhasnet workshops did they go well
[08:47] <jcoxon> yeah, we did a hackweekend in soton in the summer
[08:47] <jcoxon> going to do a similar one in late march
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[08:47] <jcoxon> number10, interestingly we've got a little cluster of nodes growing in suffolk/cambridge
[08:48] <number10> oh, i'll take a look at the map
[08:48] <jcoxon> they aren't close to chat to each other but would be interesting to get a balloon over them
[08:49] <jcoxon> if you are interested in hosting your own nodes...
[08:49] <number10> I shall try and find some time this year - work has been busy the last two
[08:53] <jcoxon> well just get in touch, probably could have them working in advance to make it easier
[08:55] <number10> I may have an RFM98
[08:55] <number10> 69
[08:57] <number10> looks like RS do them
[08:57] <jcoxon> we stock them
[08:57] <jcoxon> hasnet.supplies
[08:57] <jcoxon> http://hasnet.supplies
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[08:57] <jcoxon> (lets make that an actual link)
[08:58] <jcoxon> this is craag's little webshop
[08:58] <jcoxon> i might help out a little
[08:59] <number10> I didnt know he had that
[09:00] <jcoxon> its new
[09:00] <Vaizki> and contagious
[09:00] <jcoxon> we found that getting reasonably priced rfm69hw chips were quite hard
[09:00] <Vaizki> like ublox...
[09:01] <jcoxon> not as hard as ublox
[09:01] <number10> save me reading - there are two rfm96 - what is everyone using
[09:02] <jcoxon> unfortuantely there are a few versions
[09:02] <jcoxon> in the world the one you want is RFM69HW
[09:02] <jcoxon> but there is another version repackaged for china called RFM69H (no W which means word)
[09:02] <jcoxon> which is identical
[09:03] <jcoxon> those are the high power modules
[09:03] <jcoxon> stick to those
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[09:05] <Vaizki> so what kind of ranges are you getting now with normal height small antenna los?
[09:07] <jcoxon> Vaizki, to be honest haven't pushed it enough yet to know
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[09:07] <jcoxon> in urban environment (london) i was getting 100 - 200m
[09:08] <jcoxon> in the country a bit more but would need to actually characterise it
[09:08] <jcoxon> which requires a bit of walking!
[09:08] <Vaizki> right so basically backyard range
[09:08] <jcoxon> yeah
[09:08] <jcoxon> but thats with suboptimal antenna placement etc
[09:09] <jcoxon> so if your friend was say 500m to the north, placing a small (as is 868mhz) moxon antenna should get you that far
[09:10] <jcoxon> we got 0.5km out to sea in the summer
[09:10] <jcoxon> with the nodes floating, so waves would get in the way
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[09:12] <Vaizki> ok.. hmm..
[09:13] <jcoxon> it was too windy to fly our quadcopter node
[09:13] <jcoxon> :-D
[09:14] <Vaizki> I see :)
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[09:15] <jcoxon> its all good fun really
[09:19] <jcoxon> right better be off
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[09:37] <R6mco> can't find a site for GAS-4 balloon
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[10:03] Action: SpeedEvil has fun reading the 1968 firearms act.
[10:04] <SpeedEvil> I was wondering what the legality would be of a device shooting things in the air.
[10:04] <SpeedEvil> It seems that as long as you design it for firing underwater, you're fine.
[10:04] <SpeedEvil> Otherwise there is a muzzle energy limit
[10:06] <AndyEsser> Morning all
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> Morning
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[10:10] <AndyEsser> Recommended Python version? ( eroomde ) 2.7?
[10:11] <nick_> 2.7 or 3
[10:11] <AndyEsser> ta
[10:11] <nick_> 3 is what people should really be using already.
[10:11] <nick_> 2.7 is the best of pre-3
[10:12] <nick_> 2.7 is what, 5/6 years old now.
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[10:13] <nick_> 3.5.1 seems to be the standard now.
[10:13] <nick_> I'd suggest that unless you need a specific library that requires Python2 then you try to work with Python3
[10:14] <AndyEsser> cheers - download 3.5.1
[10:14] <AndyEsser> downloading*
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[10:34] <fsphil> yeah start with 3
[10:35] <fsphil> there are some annoying differences between 2 and 3
[10:35] <fsphil> so best just to not go there
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[10:41] <AndyEsser> 3 installed, and ipython notebook works
[10:41] <AndyEsser> I guess I should find a tutorial sometime
[10:43] <mfa298> for getting some of the initial bits of a language I found code academy to be reasonable
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[10:50] <AndyEsser> mfa298: cheers
[10:51] <fsphil> so we expect a full rtty demodulator with direct SDR input by dinner time
[10:52] <AndyEsser> fsphil: I'm not writing my rtty demod in python...
[10:52] <AndyEsser> nor do I plan on replacing SDR#
[10:52] <AndyEsser> sorry
[10:57] <fsphil> suspect it wouldn't be too fast :)
[10:59] <AndyEsser> indeed
[10:59] <AndyEsser> trying to duplicate an example in ipython notebook that ed showed me yesterday
[10:59] <AndyEsser> but failing :(
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[11:17] <R6mco> I hear GAS-4 via websdr in S-Germany
[11:19] <R6mco> seems to go northwards
[11:21] <R6mco> oh no .. more south eastwards
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[11:33] <SA6BSS-Mike> via aprs?
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[11:37] <eroomde> AndyEsser: 3
[11:37] <eroomde> definitely 3
[11:37] <eroomde> 3.x where x doesn't matter
[11:37] <eroomde> but learn 3
[11:37] <eroomde> python 2 is legacy python and for people with big corporate codebases to maintain but little else
[11:39] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[11:41] <fsphil> yo
[11:42] <eroomde> AndyEsser: i can help iuw
[11:42] <eroomde> with the ipython notebook stuff
[11:42] <eroomde> and using python for engineering/science generally
[11:42] <AndyEsser> eroomde: :)
[11:43] <AndyEsser> just trying to get that sine wave plotted like you showed me yesterday
[11:44] <AndyEsser> http://pastebin.com/WvM5mdb2
[11:44] <AndyEsser> this is what I've got so far - but the graph is empty
[11:45] <eroomde> s/arange/linspace
[11:46] <eroomde> also, i would import numpy as something other than 'math' becayse 'math' is a python library itself, so that looks a bit confusing
[11:46] <eroomde> the usual convention is to import is as np
[11:46] <eroomde> it's just because typing numpy the whole time gets boring
[11:47] <eroomde> scipy (which is a big library of numerical methods for python - differential equation solvers, linear algebra tools, filter design, etc etc etc) is often imported as sp
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[11:48] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[11:48] <AndyEsser> I think I did it as math because at first I thought it was called mathpy not numpy
[11:48] <eroomde> but to answer your question, linspace(x,y,z) is what you want - it makes z points spaced linearly evenly between x and y
[11:48] <AndyEsser> ha
[11:48] <AndyEsser> perfect
[11:48] <AndyEsser> thanks
[11:48] <AndyEsser> that works now :)
[11:49] <eroomde> arange(x,y,z) returns points between x and y with a step of z between them
[11:49] <eroomde> so if z is bigger than (y - x) then you'll only get one point
[11:49] <eroomde> which is what you had
[11:50] <eroomde> eg arange(4,10,2) = 4, 6, 8
[11:50] <eroomde> but arange(4,10,11) = 4 as the next one would be 15 which is greater than 10, the stop value
[11:50] <eroomde> do you follow?
[11:52] <eroomde> there is also logspace and lots of other useful functions. logspace especially useful if you start messing with radio and ham stuff as bode plots used to describe filters and things are on log spacing, so you can generatee evenly spaced points on a log scale. anyhoo, can cross that bridge when you come to it
[11:53] <eroomde> you can also embed pictures and youtube videos and so on into ipython notebook. really good if you want to keep tracks on, say, an online video lecture which you then want to see if you can understand by implementing what it describes in code underneath. It helps me stay organised anyway.
[11:58] <eroomde> there are some people clay-pigeon shooting about half a mile away across the fields
[11:58] <eroomde> dad keeps marching around talking about how 'it's like the bloody Somme'
[11:59] <AndyEsser> eroomde: yep I follow about arange
[12:02] <eroomde> coolio
[12:02] <eroomde> right, should go and be bdayish with parents
[12:02] <eroomde> good luck
[12:05] <AndyEsser> have fun
[12:12] <bertrik> oh wow, just managed to send a LoRa message from a SemTech chip and get it decoded by the sdrangelove lora plugin :)
[12:14] <fsphil> nice!
[12:17] <bertrik> yes, I was wondering if the code would work at all, but apparently it's doing something right
[12:21] <fsphil> what did you do to get it working?
[12:21] <bertrik> I enabled the "low data rate optimization" bit on the transmitter side
[12:23] <bertrik> I also changed the sample rate from 96000 to 64000, not sure how much of an impact that has, I'll experiment with it a bit more
[12:25] <Vaizki> oooo....
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[13:00] <R6mco> GAS-4 now in JN27UJ
[13:00] <R6mco> 3416m high
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[13:54] <R6mco> I want to read a bit more background on this GAS-4 balloon but I can't find something with Google. Anybody an URL ?
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[14:00] <Vaizki> some people are very tight lipped about their launches
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[14:59] <Babs> Babs loses his barrel roll virginity https://flic.kr/p/CMnQPd
[15:00] <Babs> https://flic.kr/p/DcbEb3
[15:01] <number10> nice
[15:02] <Babs> the guy on the left was one of 4 people who commissioned the apache gunship for the RAF, one of the others was Tim Peake
[15:03] <daveake> I wonder what became of him
[15:03] <LazyL_M0LEP> ;)
[15:04] <Babs> he does a large radius barrel roll every 22 minutes i guess
[15:04] <daveake> 92 minute orbit
[15:05] <LazyL_M0LEP> ...so what were you flying in?
[15:07] <fsphil> lol, love the "Meh" expression he has
[15:07] <fsphil> flying upside down, whatever
[15:07] <Babs> damn daveake, is there anything you don't know?
[15:07] <Babs> it was a military aerobatics plane
[15:08] <fsphil> 92.69 minutes
[15:08] <Babs> don't know the model, shame on me but the fact is I was bricking it on the way up, after 5 minutes it was easily one of the best experiences ever
[15:09] <Babs> anything daveake can do, fsphil can more to 2 decimal places
[15:09] <Babs> *do
[15:09] <fsphil> and I totally didn't google it either
[15:09] <fsphil> </lie mode disabled>
[15:10] <fsphil> looks like you had a good day for it
[15:11] <Babs> it was really good, very smooth
[15:11] <Babs> i did 4 rolls on my own one way, 1 the other
[15:12] <Babs> he did a stall turn and a loop
[15:12] <fsphil> stall turn sounds a bit hairy
[15:13] <Babs> i had the faith
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[17:01] <Laurenceb_> come on arko, we need a hab with ssdv for jason 3
[17:01] <fsphil> what time is the launch?
[17:02] <Laurenceb_> about 6:35 or something
[17:05] <adamgreig> 1845 i think
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[17:09] <AndyEsser> 1h 30~ according to spacex website
[17:10] <fsphil> the live stream is scheduled for 1h30 from now
[17:10] <fsphil> at yes, the description says 18:42 UTC
[17:11] <fsphil> nice of them to use UTC
[17:13] <AndyEsser> everyone should use UTC
[17:13] <daveake> especially UK in summer
[17:13] <daveake> whenever that is
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[17:19] <AndyEsser> wonder if I can keep my laptop battery lasting long enough to have it playing whilst I'm driving home
[17:19] <fsphil> https://i.imgflip.com/xibj8.jpg
[17:22] <AndyEsser> heh
[17:24] <daveake> yeah, like that's actually real
[17:24] <fsphil> totally cgi, you can even see the pixels if you zoom in
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[17:32] <gb73d> http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv
[17:32] <gb73d> JASON 3 launch live 1842
[17:32] <gb73d> utc
[17:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03dl3akb-11_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=dl3akb-11_chase
[17:37] <TIBS01> anyone got dmr on here ?
[17:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03dl3akb-10_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=dl3akb-10_chase
[17:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03dl3akb_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=dl3akb_chase
[17:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DK0TUI_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK0TUI_chase
[17:41] <AndyEsser> I have to concede...
[17:41] <AndyEsser> this ipython notebook almost makes working in python not too bad
[17:41] <adamgreig> "almost" "not too bad"
[17:41] <AndyEsser> ;)
[17:41] <AndyEsser> I just need to find something other than 2 sine waves to plot on the graph and actually write something
[17:42] <AndyEsser> hehe :)
[17:42] <AndyEsser> s/the graph/a graph
[17:46] <Laurenceb_> this is why people use matlab
[17:46] <AndyEsser> matlab is rather expensive
[17:47] <adamgreig> and terrible >_>
[17:50] <mikestir> octave gets around the expensive bit
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[18:02] <fsphil> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CY8LwmjWAAA1DXt.jpg:large
[18:02] <fsphil> love that pic
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[18:09] <daveake> I think arko chose the wrong viewing spot :p https://twitter.com/doug_ellison/status/688784663830073344
[18:09] <fsphil> hah, not bad!
[18:09] <fsphil> hopefully that fog will clear
[18:18] <Laurenceb_> Cali is kind of cool, you could nuke it and it would be impossible to tell
[18:18] <Laurenceb_> looks like post apocalypse at all times of the year
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[18:23] <daveake> Didn't know Captain America works for spacex
[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> I can watch it
[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> that is awesome
[18:24] <russss> SpaceX is doing a stream without the presenters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkz_lclGXNg
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander> as youtube live is finally open in germany
[18:26] <mikestir> is the audio sync out on the space x stream or is that my end?
[18:27] <AndyEsser> it seems to be marginally out for me as welll
[18:28] <russss> the link I just posted doesn't have people on it so it's less obvious to tell if it's out of sync :P
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> samer here
[18:28] <mikestir> ok. unusual - their production is usually pretty slick
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[18:31] <mikestir> they've just fixed it
[18:31] <adamgreig> thanks russss <3
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> "Yay science"?
[18:33] <murb> urg
[18:33] <mattbrejza> anyone know if there is video from the drone ship?
[18:33] <russss> yes, there is.
[18:33] <murb> and distances between random US cities.
[18:33] <mattbrejza> cool
[18:36] <adamgreig> they're getting great at the onscreen graphics
[18:36] <adamgreig> liked the go/no-go polling
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> "of course I still love youW"
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> -W
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> the names!! :
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> D
[18:36] <russss> one of their live video crew has been answering questions on reddit https://www.reddit.com/user/bencredible
[18:36] <mattbrejza> fog seems like its clearing quite quickly somehow
[18:37] <russss> fog isn't a constraint anyway, apparently that had a 0% chance of constraint violation earlier
[18:37] <adamgreig> quite bold
[18:40] <jcoxon> its quite foggy
[18:40] <russss> that's california for you
[18:40] <mattbrejza> so why droneship not land landing this time?
[18:40] <adamgreig> orbit for jason-3
[18:40] <mattbrejza> ok
[18:40] <adamgreig> doesn't permit first stage to fly all the way back
[18:40] <russss> also apparently they didn't get environmental permission for landing at Vandenberg
[18:40] <russss> yet
[18:40] <Laurenceb_> fog seems to be clearing a little
[18:41] <adamgreig> plus i guess they wanna stick a boat landing
[18:41] <russss> I heard there are some endangered snails (!)
[18:41] <adamgreig> haha
[18:41] <Laurenceb_> I predict scrum at t -1s
[18:41] <adamgreig> not allowed to call hold after t-30s
[18:41] <adamgreig> and vehicle won't abort after t-10s
[18:41] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: yea - just a bit of polish makes it look nice on the UI stuff
[18:41] <Laurenceb_> oh
[18:41] <russss> vehicle can abort up to T-0, and it has done so before
[18:41] <Laurenceb_> 30s to go then
[18:41] <adamgreig> hmm
[18:41] <adamgreig> LD won't abort after t-10s rather then
[18:42] <adamgreig> vehicle can abort itself
[18:42] <russss> so much for the fog clearing
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> sounds like pumps activating
[18:42] <mattbrejza> that teh fog machine activating by the looks of things
[18:42] <russss> heh
[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> we left
[18:43] <russss> IR camera on NASA TV
[18:43] <russss> very retro
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[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> yay onboard clears up
[18:43] <russss> that IR camera is really good
[18:44] <mattbrejza> nasa tv: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX9I1KyNa8M
[18:44] <adamgreig> the space-x stream is mostly whiteout
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[18:46] <fsphil> ah missed the launch
[18:46] <AndyEsser> :(
[18:46] <Laurenceb_> fairing sep looked a bit weird?
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> you only clap at the end!
[18:47] <fsphil> lots of nominal, so gues it's going well
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> maybe there is a sealing strip around the fairing
[18:47] <fsphil> those are some heavy duty monitor arms
[18:47] <russss> they're Ergotron I think
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> there was a bit of sunlight about 1s before sep
[18:47] <russss> I have one myself
[18:48] <Laurenceb_> which stream is this?
[18:48] <fsphil> nasa tv stream
[18:48] <russss> NASA TV is just showing launch control
[18:48] <Laurenceb_> I dont see any monitoris
[18:48] <Laurenceb_> oh
[18:48] <fsphil> spacex showing something better?
[18:48] <AndyEsser> https://youtu.be/ivdKRJzl6y0
[18:48] <AndyEsser> that's the actual webcast if you want the SpaceX people talking
[18:49] <adamgreig> some funky mpeg artifacts lol
[18:49] <adamgreig> "shit it's all melting!"
[18:49] <daveake> haha
[18:49] <russss> drone ship on the spacex commentary stream
[18:49] <fsphil> ah spacex stream is showing 3d visual
[18:49] <adamgreig> hmm wonder if the clean stream will have the drone ship landing
[18:50] <russss> there it is
[18:50] <fsphil> ooh the barge
[18:50] <Upu> too much cheering :)
[18:50] <adamgreig> live vid from the barge is a nice touch
[18:50] <adamgreig> bit stormy going on the horizon line
[18:50] <russss> fairly choppy seas apparently
[18:51] <russss> not ideal
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[18:51] <mattbrejza> that tragectory graphic is nice
[18:51] <fsphil> landing startup
[18:52] <fsphil> barge cam is struggling
[18:52] <Upu> or melted
[18:52] <adamgreig> lol
[18:52] <AndyEsser> lol
[18:52] <mikestir> should be down by now?
[18:53] <adamgreig> total silence on the clean feed is a bit tense
[18:53] <fsphil> if a rocket crashes in the ocean and no-one hears it...
[18:53] <fsphil> heh, I tried to move that mouse out of the way
[18:53] <adamgreig> hah
[18:53] <adamgreig> suspect they might have taken the mission control loop off the broadcast
[18:54] <fsphil> well, it's certainly down
[18:54] <Upu> yeah I suspect that was on a delay and its not landed correctly
[18:54] <fsphil> creepy music
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> elon's favourite soundtrack now
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[18:54] <Darkside> bah
[18:54] <mattbrejza> 'loss of signal'
[18:54] <Upu> +rocket and barge
[18:54] <Darkside> i woke up at 2:30am for this
[18:54] <Darkside> lol
[18:55] <mikestir> presumably if it didn't land correctly they'd probably expect to lose the sat-comms
[18:55] <mikestir> depending on the degree of incorrect
[18:55] <Upu> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CY5RNfiU0AApjQn.jpg
[18:55] <Laurenceb_> I think it crashed
[18:56] <mattbrejza> somewhat less 'U-S-A U-S-A' than last time
[18:56] <adamgreig> they all sound a bit down
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[18:56] <adamgreig> wonder why jason-3 deployment is so late
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> reddit says crash
[18:57] <adamgreig> second stage is in orbit and no more burns planned?
[18:57] <russss> there's a circularisation burn in ~40mins
[18:57] <adamgreig> ah ok
[18:57] <adamgreig> just not on the timeline
[18:57] <adamgreig> fe
[18:57] <russss> ah true
[18:57] <mattbrejza> nasa tv stream gone weird or just me?
[18:57] <russss> yeah nasa TV is a bit trippy
[18:58] <adamgreig> "Standing by for status of stage one." lol
[18:58] <Darkside> righto im going back to sleep
[18:58] <Darkside> gnight all
[18:58] <fsphil> nite!
[19:00] <AndyEsser> Ha - guyu in mission control making the hand action of something slamming into the surface...
[19:00] <AndyEsser> guy*
[19:01] <Upu> Music is a bit "Hey Jean-Michel take these drugs then go play that keyboard"
[19:02] <fsphil> after slamming his hand in a door
[19:02] <daveake> SarcasticeRover: "Me and Skycrane would have stuck that drone-ship landing like a Romanian gymnast. No doubt."
[19:02] <daveake> -e
[19:02] <Upu> haha
[19:03] <fsphil> aah, their mouse is moving
[19:04] <mikestir> anyone know what they do for guidance on the landing? is it radar or lidar guided or just gps?
[19:04] <mikestir> because unless one of the former I'd imagine it's pretty hard to cope with anything other than totally calm seas
[19:05] <russss> they have radar at least
[19:08] <fsphil> "First stage on target at droneship but looks like hard landing; broke landing leg. Primary mission remains nominal"
[19:08] <fsphil> on twitter
[19:08] <russss> same problem as last time then
[19:08] <adamgreig> they hit the ship but too quickly, sad
[19:08] <adamgreig> yea
[19:09] <AndyEsser> did it splode?
[19:09] <adamgreig> presumably
[19:09] <fsphil> rapid disassembly
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> did elon shout a lot?
[19:09] <AndyEsser> "We're not standing upright" - that suggests it might still be intact
[19:09] <adamgreig> i don't think it survives falling over?
[19:09] <russss> as we saw last time there's still enough propellant to produce a relatively significant boom
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> on landing 2 it fell over and detonated
[19:10] <fsphil> "It's just a scratch..."
[19:10] <AndyEsser> Yea, I imagine it's not done too well
[19:10] <AndyEsser> And I guess they like to avoid phrases like "exploded"
[19:11] <fsphil> I wonder if it would've stayed upright on that barge even if it had landed
[19:12] <Vaizki> yea they say "lost" or something like that
[19:12] <kc2pit> "That one burned down, fell over, and then sank into the ocean."
[19:13] <adamgreig> guess the next one will have reinforced landing legs ;)
[19:13] <fsphil> turns out launching a rocket into space, and then slowing and landing from supersonic speeds on a barge floating in the ocean is difficult. who knew!
[19:14] <fsphil> I imagine it'll be a while before they release the video
[19:15] <fsphil> assuming the memory card survived
[19:15] <adamgreig> they said couple hours
[19:15] <fsphil> oh! that's pretty good
[19:15] <adamgreig> sounds like they do still have satellite link to the barge
[19:15] <fsphil> I was thinking days
[19:15] <eroomde> this KE management thing due to not being able to throttle down enough makes it especially hard
[19:15] <Vaizki> it still makes me wonder that they didn't come up with any kind of bounce up nets, airbags, whatnot. Landing upright with no safety mechanism is of course ballsy as hell.
[19:16] <eroomde> that's not a constraint i would fancy having at all
[19:16] <fsphil> the structure of the rocket probably wouldn't handle being sideways in gravity
[19:16] <fsphil> I think they're quite fragile
[19:17] <eroomde> mmm i don't think you have much chance of surving falling over
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> If the leg fell off, it has burst and exploded
[19:18] <fsphil> does the fuel react with the air?
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[19:18] <fsphil> I suppose lots of parts of the rocket are still really hot
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> But even without that, it explodes
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> it can't explode (flammably) unless it bursts
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[19:19] <Laurenceb_> they should have gone with hot air ballute
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> It's a fragile container being dropped hard on a steel deck with stuff poking out from it
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> At 60PSI or so
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[19:19] <eroomde> the fuel is keroscene which is not especially explody in air
[19:20] <eroomde> just burney, if there's enough activation energy
[19:20] <eroomde> with residual lox however
[19:20] <Laurenceb_> I wonder if the FTS gets triggered
[19:24] <kc2pit> With LOX, around, you hope the kerosene ignites immediately. If it has time to mix a little, things get all detonatey. But since there's probably still stuff on fire coming out of the engine or turbopumps that's unlikely.
[19:24] <Vaizki> US used to make incendiary bombs from kerosene and oxidizer
[19:27] <eroomde> kc2pit: back-in-the-day, when working on experimental lox-kero engines, there was an upsetting phenomenon in which, if the engine failed to ignite, the chamber would fill with lox and keroscene as the injectors kept pumping it in
[19:27] <eroomde> and extremely cool lox would mix with the kero and form a sort of fridgid high-explosive wax
[19:27] <kc2pit> That sounds like a good thing to be a very long distance from.
[19:27] <eroomde> most of the engines were angled down for such tests so that this lump of high-explosive wax would slump out of the nozzle
[19:28] <eroomde> when that happened you would gingerly walk away and wait a while for it to warm up and the lox evaporate
[19:29] <Vaizki> sounds like my first born after a meal
[19:32] <mikestir> only in that case the hazard tends not to evaporate unfortunately :)
[19:35] <Laurenceb_> cmon need photos
[19:36] <kc2pit> Of the crashed rocket, the exploding engine tests, or the aftermath of Vaizki's kid?
[19:37] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Looks like they have a feed from the drone, angled and burning rocket
[19:37] <Upu> "lost"
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[19:38] <Upu> oh lost it again huh
[19:38] Action: Upu looks out of the window for the fireworks
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> "Tjason-3" :D
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> where is the video?
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> test shot starfish
[19:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> It was on the feed, from livestream till they cut back to the presenters
[19:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> The view was from behind the edge of the barrier, but could see an angled stage and a lot of flames
[19:45] <eroomde> fsphil: what are all the cars for in your twitter?
[19:48] <fsphil> eroomde: none on mine?
[19:49] <eroomde> you're right
[19:49] <eroomde> i can't internet
[19:50] <gurlavie_> Hi all, I am coaching two schools which are on a tight budget in Executing a HAB project. Any recommendation for a budget camera and a video recorder? Because of geography and winds, there is a very high probability that we will not get the payload back.
[19:51] <mattbrejza> 808 #16 camera from ebay
[19:51] <mattbrejza> £30
[19:51] <mattbrejza> combine with a second hand canon camera if you want good stills
[19:52] <craag> If you're not using it already and your budget stretches, the pi in the sky will give you (small) live pictures.
[19:53] <daveake> I'd go with that :p
[19:53] <daveake> Then recovery is less important
[19:54] <daveake> whereabouts would the launches be, and what tracking do they intend to use ?
[19:56] <eroomde> i would recommend the canon camera thing mattbrejza suggested. There is a thing called 'CHDK' in which you write a little script that you save as a file on the camera's sd card. the canon camera than reads that script and follows it - usually people program a loop to, say, take a photo every 10s
[19:57] <eroomde> I have used this is a very basic introduction to programming with school kids (depending on their level)
[19:57] <eroomde> you can introduce the idea of loops and functions and other stuff quite easily
[19:57] <eroomde> without threatening mission-critical code on the flight computer
[19:58] <eroomde> you can also get them to then work out how long a certain size SD card would last with their script (by looking at the sizes of the photos)
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good
[19:58] <adamgreig> the downside being you must recover the camera to get the photos
[19:58] <eroomde> and as happened one time recently, one astute ten year old noticed the jpegs were all different file sizes even though the resolution was the same, so we started talking about the idea of compression and how some pictures have more 'information' in them, and so are less compressible, than others
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:59] <eroomde> and she totally got how just a picture of black sky could be much more compressed than a picture pointing down of complicated landscape
[19:59] <eroomde> oh sorry i missed the recovery bit
[19:59] <eroomde> sorry!
[19:59] <adamgreig> i think you should aim to recover somehow or other though, and then do as eroomde suggests, better photos too
[20:00] <eroomde> yes, this all assumes recovery. I'd go with PITS (which sends pictures back as everyone else has said) if you don't think it's coming home
[20:00] <eroomde> but recovery is a worthwhile aim
[20:00] <eroomde> i must be off, ttfn.
[20:00] <daveake> yup
[20:00] <daveake> awaiting a reply as to how hard recovery might be ...
[20:00] <fsphil> the data rate is quite low, so the live images won't be nearly as good quality as a proper camera
[20:00] <eroomde> no indeed
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[20:02] <eroomde> ttfn
[20:02] <Ian_> If the recovery is a problem to yourself and team, then if it's UK mainland and not in the North Sea, there is an outside chance that it could be recovered on your behalf if it is likely to be close to someone's abode.
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[20:05] <Evidlo> Does anyone know of any reading material on high frequency filter design and construction? I need to build a lowpass for my 433MHz transceiver
[20:09] <mikestir> Evidlo: I have quite a nice cookbook style book - let me find it...
[20:09] <mikestir> Bowick, RF Circuit Design
[20:09] Nick change: Geoff-G8- -> Geoff-G8DHE
[20:10] <drowe67> Evidlo: do you have access to a spec-an with tracking generator?
[20:10] <Evidlo> drowe67: yes to the first part
[20:11] <Evidlo> Is the tracking generator when it generates the input to the system as well?
[20:11] <Evidlo> mikestir: Any online resources?
[20:12] <drowe67> Bowick is a great book, but at those freqs its the practical construction details that make of break the filter, here is one of my recent experiences: http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?p=4804
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[20:12] <drowe67> Evidlo: the TG sweeps the filter as the SA measures the ouput, so you get a plot of the freq response
[20:13] <mikestir> maybe you can find a pdf while you wait for the hard copy to arrive?
[20:14] <russss> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/688816554306191360
[20:15] <adamgreig> interesting
[20:15] <adamgreig> annoying for them i bet
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[20:16] <russss> presumably a straightforward fix though, so there's that
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[20:17] <Evidlo> drowe67: yes I have one of those
[20:19] <Evidlo> drowe67: I'm thinking about building a 3rd or 4th order passive filter. 1st order doesn't seem good enough to kill the first harmonic
[20:24] <SA6BSS-Mike> upploaded a quick comparison between sdrplay and a rt-sdr tuned to a 70cm beacon 120km away, its choppy as my computer cant handle the recording program with two instances of hd sdr running.
[20:24] <SA6BSS-Mike> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAXW-QKm06U&feature=youtu.be
[20:24] <SA6BSS-Mike> not much difference if any at all
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> russss: oh wow
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> thats unexpected
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> so good news I guess
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[20:29] <Laurenceb_> presumably a QC or minor design issue.. maybe even retrofitting stuff to earlier core design
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[20:30] <gurlavie_> mattbrejza: thanks! You mean the tiny keychain dvr? Does it produce reasonable quality ?
[20:30] <fsphil> https://twitter.com/susanbellfilm/status/688817067408019456
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> This browser does not support video playback
[20:31] <gurlavie_> daveake: will launch from Israel. Planning Aprs
[20:31] <fsphil> I get that at random
[20:31] <fsphil> there are days videos play fin
[20:31] <fsphil> +e
[20:31] <mattbrejza> gurlavie_: https://www.flickr.com/photos/104821768@N06/albums/72157651518026711
[20:31] <mattbrejza> the ones that say vlcsnap are from the 808 cam
[20:31] <daveake> OK Israel is a bit narrow so yes, that will be tricky
[20:32] <mikestir> Evidlo: if you match the PA with a low-pass L section and then follow it with a 50 ohm pi section I'd imagine that would be ok. construction wise use SMT with ground on both sides and plenty of stitching vias
[20:34] <Evidlo> mikestir: Can't this be done by hand? ie. Manhattan style construction with homemade inductors?
[20:34] <mikestir> yeah probably at 433 as long as the leads are a bear minimum in length
[20:35] <mikestir> bare*
[20:35] <adamgreig> so much additional pain though
[20:35] <adamgreig> $10 gets you ten PCBs delivered
[20:35] <mikestir> with SMT you should find it behaves exactly as designed
[20:35] <adamgreig> basically cheaper than the copper clad you'd use in manhattan style
[20:35] <mikestir> if you use leaded components it will need trimming
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[20:37] <Evidlo> mikestir: it will be smd eventually. but should the inductors be hand wound?
[20:38] <Evidlo> ie. pick the smd caps at common values and trim the inductors
[20:39] <mikestir> you'll get better results with bought inductors
[20:39] <mikestir> you can still prototype with SMT parts on a bit of coppper clad
[20:40] <mikestir> just cut it with a scalpel
[20:40] <Evidlo> How much does accuracy matter for this situation though? Isn't the 1st harmonic at 866Mhz? So the cutoff needs to be between 433 and 866
[20:41] <mikestir> it will also affect the matching though
[20:42] <mikestir> at UHF the inductors you would need are likely to be bent pieces of wire
[20:42] <Evidlo> Is 433MHz VHF or UHF?
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[20:42] <mikestir> >300 MHz is UHF
[20:43] <mikestir> I'm not saying you shouldn't try it with junk box parts, especially since you have a tracking generator
[20:44] <Evidlo> yeah I put my specifications into a calculator and it said to be able to use 1 turn of wire my loop needs to have an radius of 1mm and length of 4cm
[20:46] <Ian_> I gurlavie, I guess the political geography might now be conducive for asking for your HAB back if it lands over the border. Fast up/down with an overfill?
[20:48] <Ian_> The 808 #16 is an RF noisy camera so keep it away from your GPS. If flying latex then put it up or down the train a little.
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[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> elon said
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> "However, that was not what prevented it being good. Touchdown speed was ok, but a leg lockout didn't latch, so it tipped over after landing."
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/688816554306191360
[21:03] <Evidlo> 2
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[21:27] <Evidlo> mikestir: So my filter impedance should be about 50 ohms to match the impedance in my antenna?
[21:27] <Evidlo> for max power transfer?
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[21:29] <mikestir> yes
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[21:30] <mikestir> is your signal source 50 ohm already or are you designing the power amplifier yourself too?
[21:31] <Evidlo> The module has an amp. The datasheet says that the antenna input impedance should be 50ohms
[21:32] <Evidlo> www.dorji.com/docs/data/DRA818V.pdf
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[21:34] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes, your doeji module hva a filter and matched to 50ohm as it is
[21:34] <SA6BSS-Mike> *dorji
[21:34] <mikestir> but yes, if you feel you need an extra filter then it can just be symmetrical 50 ohm in and out
[21:34] <mikestir> or rather, should be
[21:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> it should be yes
[21:35] <Evidlo> Heh, trying to remember how to calculate input impedance for butterworth
[21:36] <mikestir> see if you had bowick you'd be done by now :)
[21:37] <mikestir> it has tables of prototype filters for 1 ohm at 1 Hz and gives you the scaling formula so you can generate the component values for any frequency and any required impedance transformation
[21:39] <russss> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/688837706005131264
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[21:45] <fsphil> well, most of it's there!
[21:45] <russss> I can see at least two components still attached to each other
[21:47] <russss> I've just finished reading Eric Schlosser's book which is at least partially about this accident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Damascus_Titan_missile_explosion
[21:47] <russss> and it's terrifying
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[22:00] <RealBorg> its terrifying that people intent on destruction were given so much power
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[22:50] <Laurenceb_> http://www.combatreform.org/skyhookinaction.jpg
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[00:00] --- Mon Jan 18 2016